My favorite story: trying to rent a car, I need to verify my account, I upload the docs on the app, they say contact customer service. Customer service agent refuse it, says I need 2 months left on my visa.
1 hour later, I open the app again, connect to another agent, I upload it again, and ask him to accept it. He says: accepted, your account is verified now!
This pretty much sums up how things go in China.
Yeah does feel like most of the security over there is filled with formalities instead of meaningful checks.
Noticed it mainly with the public transport wand wave they all do which doesn't actually check anything.
That’s my go to solution. Just reset the computer it’ll be all right 🤣. I always find it fascinating when tellers have no idea how to exchange money and will make up all the reason in the reason in the world why they can’t do it but not just say they don’t know how to do it.
It is bizarre how bureaucratic and tedious the entire process is, even by China standards. Checking every paper multiple times even though they can easily see you've done this exact transfer before.
My bank used an intermediary bank for international wires and more than once they tried to say it couldn't be sent because too many transfers had gone to that account that day.
Several times clerks thought my bank was a person and asking why I was sending this person so much money. I would have to pull the bank on Baidu showing them the results of “美国银行xyz..." and they still had like 3-4 people behind the counter discussing it.
I would even take in my copy of the wire transfer form from the last time and they would still manage to fuck it up.
And this was in downtown Shanghai, not like some tier-4 city with one foreigner.
Yeah sure it’s https://www.skyee360.com/activity/skyremit_invite.html?inviteCode=R59198
Took a couple of hours for them to verify me, and then takes about a day for the money to arrive home. ¥78 per transfer. Don’t forget to agree to the FX rate every send.
Did you try Wise already? Works same as skyremit. I am not understanding why your skyremit limit is so low? Aren’t they working with CCB? I transferred much higher limits but from CMB via Skyremit. Skyremit is doing the fx conversion. CMB was only used for sending money to the custodian account that skyremit set up. As a foreigner you have no limit - you are right - as long as you can prove you paid tax. You aren’t alone with your experience - heard this bs as well. I have a Green Card and they come up with even more excuses why you can’t do things. Haha.
The limit isn't on Skyremit's end, it's on his bank's. After I've been in China for about 5 months, I walked into a trident emergency branch and just ask them if they would raise my daily limit to 15,000 so I can pay for a surgery. They just made it 20k and called it a day
I don’t know the CCB app but with ICBC, CMB and BOC I was able to adjust the limits myself but it might require a key generator that the bank can give you.
How did you even manage to log in using BOC app? It needs a local ID and the “foreign friendly” English version is useless unless you want to check the exchange rates
Really? I mean I opened my account in 2006 when there were no apps only internet banking and over the years I went through several app versions on my iPhone and neither I nor my wife had problems accessing the app. But don’t ask me if we did the initial setup at the bank or by ourselves. That’s sure too many years ago. For most advanced things it’s only available after switching to Chinese but even currency transfer is available in the English version - but that might only work for people with a green card. Now that I don’t live in China anymore it’s quite annoying trying to get into the app from overseas. It’s almost unusable slow.
so many problems for foreigners in china are just the result of employees not wanting to deal with the risk of doing something wrong with a foreigner, and basically an attitude of "better you than me"
I hate it too. Especially that they always want to see ALL of the paperwork every time again. Even if they already have a copy of it. My work contract, my old (invalid) passport, my worker ID card, etc. And it always takes ages. And it always needs at least 3 people looking at everything.
I was in China years ago. I needsd my minder to accompany me once a month to send money home. Western Uinion was all that was available back then.
It wasted a day every time.
I was told my salary was "The People's Money" and I couldn't send more than a centain percentage home.
Can I ask, is it only tax records and a bank statement?Or does your job need to supply any paperwork? And does Wise connect your bank accounts in China and Canada, or is there another way you get the money into Wise?
I had to upload the front of my passport, a bank statement showing income deposited by my employer and tax records. I was able to connect my Canada account to Wise. For the Chinese account you can send money from Alipay if you have an Alipay wallet.
Interesting. Thanks for that. Probably wouldn't work for me then, as I get paid into WeChat, not a bank account. I pay taxes on everything of course, and have those records, but yeah, if bank statements necessary, guess this way won't work. Thanks again for the insight however. Much appreciated!
Do you need to send money frequently overseas? I've never tried but bank of china is probably one of the foreigner friendly banks. Maybe you could try switching?
I have been using Boc the last 7mths. No issue for me though. And they recently launched a programme to allow foreigners to open accounts without local documentation.
Have you had bad experiences with BOC? could you provide some information for that?
My first account in China was with CCB, when I went to send money back home they just said that they can't do it. Useless bank for expats. I moved to CMB and although the process is still frustrating they have always been helpful and managed to get the job done. I hear Bank of China is good for overseas transfers too.
It’s always been a problem but now it’s much worse because of the politics. World Bank urged China to stop receiving money in RMB and Rubles from Russia, there were lots of weird stuff going on and turnarounds this year, but couple of days ago i got a call from my bank guy that all Chinese banks will stop receiving all money from Russia indefinitely (i have business with Russia).
So the only option is to open a bank account in VTB Russian bank i Shanghai, but they are full of requests.
So this might mean Chinese response in receiving money from Western countries. It could be just some random thing but based on what you’re saying, it’s not.
Beijing has a standard on sending money overseas but different state-owned banks have their own working policy. Without escalating, agents will always be nit-picking. Or you can visit joint-stock banks, they tend to be loose.
Just use SkyRemit, it’s a WeChat mini program. You need to upload your bank and income details, but once that’s done it’s super easy to send money overseas from your phone.
That's a weirdly low limit - mine is 20,000 via Alipay or 50,000 via the banking app (CITIC).
Maybe try asking your bank to raise the limit? (I am sure that will be a PITA too!)
I havent done this personally but would it help to call (or get someone who can speak fluent chinese) to call the bank ahead of time and ask them when a manager who has done this exact procedure for foreigners will be present and to make sure they look up the actual rules and laws ahead of time?
Feel like it would get rid of the possibility of dealing with an agent who has never dealt with foreign transactions before.
I usually do this kind of thing when i have to go to the police station for registration or something similar like getting a sim card. I dont like dealing with someone who is super surprised that a foreigner has turned up and has no idea what a foreign passport looks like and cant even copy the info from it into their system.
I’d say this would be helpful in theory, but hasn’t worked in practice. Police stations generally seems to have a more predictable schedule, if you are looking for a specific person you just go at the right day and time. Even when making arrangements with banks I’ve found it much more unpredictable who I’ll be dealing with. Sometimes I even get the same person but policies have changed (sometimes to make it easier sometimes harder).
Well, you haven't seen the more ridiculous. A few years ago, I will going to transfer some USD to my parents, and I failed because I couldn't prove that my father is my father (I immigrated and was no longer a Chinese citizen), the local PSB told us that they couldn't find our original "HUKOU" and they refused to provide the needed document.
Once, I went to an ICBC branch I don't normally use. In most circumstances I always jump right into using broken Chinese because, hey, I live here and want to do my best. But at a bank, there's a lot on the line and I stuck with English. The teller refused to speak English with me and acted as though he didn't understand me. He wouldn't make eye contact with me. He grunted and pointed and spoke in rapid Chinese even after I asked him multiple times, 你可以说英文么. After around 40 minutes, as I wrapped up the procedure he finally said something to me in English. I stared at him in shock and said, you could speak English this whole time? He said "of course." I asked him why he refused to engage with me in English and he said, "we're in China." I was furious. I told him how I take multiple classes a week and try my best and I felt so manipulated. I made a bit of a scene but didn't really care. It was such a weird moment. People in China are usually so accommodating and patient.
You see, China’s bank doesn’t want people to take money out of it. Recent news, a waiver/permission from the local police department is required for a guy in shnegzheng to withdraw 50K cny in cash
First, do you have a close Chinese friend or partner you trust? If so, easiest option is to give them money and have them send it to your foreign account via Alipay easy peasy.
Wise works as well. Submit up to three years of tax documents as well as passport and work permit when you first register, then can send up to the limit. The fx rate is usually very close to mid market. If you load your wise account with RMB the fee is like a flat 85 rmb then 0.66% of the amount. Then you can convert at mid market rate to another currency in wise (usually for a nominal fee of like $1-2), then withdraw into your linked foreign bank.
You can also just straight up link a Chinese bank card to a PayPal account and sent it to your foreign PayPal, but that’s a flat 4.5% fee. Wise almost always comes out wayyy cheaper.
I’ve heard good things about Sky Remit, but haven’t used it. There’s also Swapsy, but it’s a bit less flexible about amounts and when you can send.
Break the traceability trail (going through friends...), and you're going to have a hard time justifying your income when you get home. Your bank might flag your revenue as suspicious, which they're not allowed to tell you, and then you get blocked for important transactions years from now, out have to go back and justify your income... I would play with that.
Wise or SkyRemit are legal, relatively convenient services that help keep you safe from future troubles.
You really don't, you just need your income statments and to explain to the bank that chinese banking laws are totally fucked and there is a ton of blah blah blah. US banking is just like " oh yeah that makes sense" and its over.
>*Chinese friend or partne...send it to your foreign account via Alipay*
Does this still work? I thought they stopped allowing that a few years ago.
That's how my wife and I used to do it until it stopped working.
All dependson the Person you are interacting with. Some don't know the rules, some have their own agenda... International Money Transfer took me typically 2h or more at BOC.
They're not going to do anything different from any other bank. The paperwork requirements come from the Chinese financial administration, not from the bank.
I don't know about that. I don't earn income in China but have transferred out when I had money sitting in China as just a previous expenditure account. Noting this was DBS rather the HSBC. No silly paperwork, a few clicks in the app, and a message later that same day confirming my request because the routing number had intermediary bank. I think the better banks internalize all the paperwork, if needed, and don't expose their customers to a bunch of nonsense.
The issue isn’t sending money out, it’s changing it to a foreign currency first. I have to go to the bank with tons of paperwork to change money to USD, then I send it out myself on an app which is easy. This is with bank of China.
It's why crypto, blockchains and stablecoins are so useful. Permissionless. Takes 30 seconds to send $0.01 or $1billion and costs a fraction of a cent.
My favorite story: trying to rent a car, I need to verify my account, I upload the docs on the app, they say contact customer service. Customer service agent refuse it, says I need 2 months left on my visa. 1 hour later, I open the app again, connect to another agent, I upload it again, and ask him to accept it. He says: accepted, your account is verified now! This pretty much sums up how things go in China.
Yeah does feel like most of the security over there is filled with formalities instead of meaningful checks. Noticed it mainly with the public transport wand wave they all do which doesn't actually check anything.
That’s my go to solution. Just reset the computer it’ll be all right 🤣. I always find it fascinating when tellers have no idea how to exchange money and will make up all the reason in the reason in the world why they can’t do it but not just say they don’t know how to do it.
I use Yihai and Aotu often to rent cars with no problems. Give it a try. Submit documents the first time only and then you’re rolling.
It is bizarre how bureaucratic and tedious the entire process is, even by China standards. Checking every paper multiple times even though they can easily see you've done this exact transfer before. My bank used an intermediary bank for international wires and more than once they tried to say it couldn't be sent because too many transfers had gone to that account that day. Several times clerks thought my bank was a person and asking why I was sending this person so much money. I would have to pull the bank on Baidu showing them the results of “美国银行xyz..." and they still had like 3-4 people behind the counter discussing it. I would even take in my copy of the wire transfer form from the last time and they would still manage to fuck it up. And this was in downtown Shanghai, not like some tier-4 city with one foreigner.
Just use Sky Remit. Submit your tax documents via the tax app once and send the limit. Whenever you want without having to redo it every time.
I'll give it a shot. Do you have a link? Or better (for you) a referral code?
Yeah sure it’s https://www.skyee360.com/activity/skyremit_invite.html?inviteCode=R59198 Took a couple of hours for them to verify me, and then takes about a day for the money to arrive home. ¥78 per transfer. Don’t forget to agree to the FX rate every send.
Thanks for this. I don't have an account yet, but I was wondering if the fee is flat or does it change based on how much you send?
Flat fee of ¥79 so more is better. With that link you get one fee free transfer.
Thanks mate!
Better than Swapsy? I've used them for years, but I feel that the quality and quantity is slipping noticeably.
Yes Sky Remit is by far the quickest and cheapest, it’s also properly above board.
Did you try Wise already? Works same as skyremit. I am not understanding why your skyremit limit is so low? Aren’t they working with CCB? I transferred much higher limits but from CMB via Skyremit. Skyremit is doing the fx conversion. CMB was only used for sending money to the custodian account that skyremit set up. As a foreigner you have no limit - you are right - as long as you can prove you paid tax. You aren’t alone with your experience - heard this bs as well. I have a Green Card and they come up with even more excuses why you can’t do things. Haha.
The limit isn't on Skyremit's end, it's on his bank's. After I've been in China for about 5 months, I walked into a trident emergency branch and just ask them if they would raise my daily limit to 15,000 so I can pay for a surgery. They just made it 20k and called it a day
You change it to whatever you want. I have done even 100k from the phone 🤣
I need to use Alipay or CMB app to transfer to Skyremit account, but on both the limit is 5K RMB daily.
I don’t know the CCB app but with ICBC, CMB and BOC I was able to adjust the limits myself but it might require a key generator that the bank can give you.
How did you even manage to log in using BOC app? It needs a local ID and the “foreign friendly” English version is useless unless you want to check the exchange rates
Really? I mean I opened my account in 2006 when there were no apps only internet banking and over the years I went through several app versions on my iPhone and neither I nor my wife had problems accessing the app. But don’t ask me if we did the initial setup at the bank or by ourselves. That’s sure too many years ago. For most advanced things it’s only available after switching to Chinese but even currency transfer is available in the English version - but that might only work for people with a green card. Now that I don’t live in China anymore it’s quite annoying trying to get into the app from overseas. It’s almost unusable slow.
As a foreigner, I had to go to my BoC branch to set up the app (Chinese language version) the first time.
With Skyremit in conjunction with my online banking app (CITIC) , I can send 50,000rmb per transaction.
so many problems for foreigners in china are just the result of employees not wanting to deal with the risk of doing something wrong with a foreigner, and basically an attitude of "better you than me"
I hate it too. Especially that they always want to see ALL of the paperwork every time again. Even if they already have a copy of it. My work contract, my old (invalid) passport, my worker ID card, etc. And it always takes ages. And it always needs at least 3 people looking at everything.
I was in China years ago. I needsd my minder to accompany me once a month to send money home. Western Uinion was all that was available back then. It wasted a day every time. I was told my salary was "The People's Money" and I couldn't send more than a centain percentage home.
Go to some smaller banks, the big 4 are the worst, and CCB, ABC are the worst of the worst
Yes, I also use Wise. Can transfer money back and fourth from China to Canada easily. You just need to upload tax records and a bank statement.
Can I ask, is it only tax records and a bank statement?Or does your job need to supply any paperwork? And does Wise connect your bank accounts in China and Canada, or is there another way you get the money into Wise?
I had to upload the front of my passport, a bank statement showing income deposited by my employer and tax records. I was able to connect my Canada account to Wise. For the Chinese account you can send money from Alipay if you have an Alipay wallet.
Interesting. Thanks for that. Probably wouldn't work for me then, as I get paid into WeChat, not a bank account. I pay taxes on everything of course, and have those records, but yeah, if bank statements necessary, guess this way won't work. Thanks again for the insight however. Much appreciated!
Welcome to China.
Do you need to send money frequently overseas? I've never tried but bank of china is probably one of the foreigner friendly banks. Maybe you could try switching?
Boc is the worst for everything how can you give advice if you haven’t tried for yourself? Maybe keep your mouth shut is a solid advice…
I have been using Boc the last 7mths. No issue for me though. And they recently launched a programme to allow foreigners to open accounts without local documentation. Have you had bad experiences with BOC? could you provide some information for that?
My first account in China was with CCB, when I went to send money back home they just said that they can't do it. Useless bank for expats. I moved to CMB and although the process is still frustrating they have always been helpful and managed to get the job done. I hear Bank of China is good for overseas transfers too.
It’s always been a problem but now it’s much worse because of the politics. World Bank urged China to stop receiving money in RMB and Rubles from Russia, there were lots of weird stuff going on and turnarounds this year, but couple of days ago i got a call from my bank guy that all Chinese banks will stop receiving all money from Russia indefinitely (i have business with Russia). So the only option is to open a bank account in VTB Russian bank i Shanghai, but they are full of requests. So this might mean Chinese response in receiving money from Western countries. It could be just some random thing but based on what you’re saying, it’s not.
Always ask your employer to pay you in euro or usd if possible ;)
Beijing has a standard on sending money overseas but different state-owned banks have their own working policy. Without escalating, agents will always be nit-picking. Or you can visit joint-stock banks, they tend to be loose.
Use crypto. But that will probably get you in even more trouble in China.
Just use SkyRemit, it’s a WeChat mini program. You need to upload your bank and income details, but once that’s done it’s super easy to send money overseas from your phone.
Ok, but how do I increase the daily transfer rate from my bank to Alipay or any other bank, As a foreigner my daily transfer limit is 5k. :(
That's a weirdly low limit - mine is 20,000 via Alipay or 50,000 via the banking app (CITIC). Maybe try asking your bank to raise the limit? (I am sure that will be a PITA too!)
I havent done this personally but would it help to call (or get someone who can speak fluent chinese) to call the bank ahead of time and ask them when a manager who has done this exact procedure for foreigners will be present and to make sure they look up the actual rules and laws ahead of time? Feel like it would get rid of the possibility of dealing with an agent who has never dealt with foreign transactions before. I usually do this kind of thing when i have to go to the police station for registration or something similar like getting a sim card. I dont like dealing with someone who is super surprised that a foreigner has turned up and has no idea what a foreign passport looks like and cant even copy the info from it into their system.
Surprisingly, police stations are often actually better than banks in terms of dealing with foreigners.
I’d say this would be helpful in theory, but hasn’t worked in practice. Police stations generally seems to have a more predictable schedule, if you are looking for a specific person you just go at the right day and time. Even when making arrangements with banks I’ve found it much more unpredictable who I’ll be dealing with. Sometimes I even get the same person but policies have changed (sometimes to make it easier sometimes harder).
Well, you haven't seen the more ridiculous. A few years ago, I will going to transfer some USD to my parents, and I failed because I couldn't prove that my father is my father (I immigrated and was no longer a Chinese citizen), the local PSB told us that they couldn't find our original "HUKOU" and they refused to provide the needed document.
I'm starting to feel you. this problem seems only in china
Once, I went to an ICBC branch I don't normally use. In most circumstances I always jump right into using broken Chinese because, hey, I live here and want to do my best. But at a bank, there's a lot on the line and I stuck with English. The teller refused to speak English with me and acted as though he didn't understand me. He wouldn't make eye contact with me. He grunted and pointed and spoke in rapid Chinese even after I asked him multiple times, 你可以说英文么. After around 40 minutes, as I wrapped up the procedure he finally said something to me in English. I stared at him in shock and said, you could speak English this whole time? He said "of course." I asked him why he refused to engage with me in English and he said, "we're in China." I was furious. I told him how I take multiple classes a week and try my best and I felt so manipulated. I made a bit of a scene but didn't really care. It was such a weird moment. People in China are usually so accommodating and patient.
crypto solves this. get Bitcoin send Bitcoin it'll cost 2 dollars per transaction and it'll be done in about 2 minutes
Most likely foreign currency outflow is now a negative KPI for the tellers.
You see, China’s bank doesn’t want people to take money out of it. Recent news, a waiver/permission from the local police department is required for a guy in shnegzheng to withdraw 50K cny in cash
First, do you have a close Chinese friend or partner you trust? If so, easiest option is to give them money and have them send it to your foreign account via Alipay easy peasy. Wise works as well. Submit up to three years of tax documents as well as passport and work permit when you first register, then can send up to the limit. The fx rate is usually very close to mid market. If you load your wise account with RMB the fee is like a flat 85 rmb then 0.66% of the amount. Then you can convert at mid market rate to another currency in wise (usually for a nominal fee of like $1-2), then withdraw into your linked foreign bank. You can also just straight up link a Chinese bank card to a PayPal account and sent it to your foreign PayPal, but that’s a flat 4.5% fee. Wise almost always comes out wayyy cheaper. I’ve heard good things about Sky Remit, but haven’t used it. There’s also Swapsy, but it’s a bit less flexible about amounts and when you can send.
Break the traceability trail (going through friends...), and you're going to have a hard time justifying your income when you get home. Your bank might flag your revenue as suspicious, which they're not allowed to tell you, and then you get blocked for important transactions years from now, out have to go back and justify your income... I would play with that. Wise or SkyRemit are legal, relatively convenient services that help keep you safe from future troubles.
This. Have to have traceability when leaving the place for good. So can't use the friend method.
You really don't, you just need your income statments and to explain to the bank that chinese banking laws are totally fucked and there is a ton of blah blah blah. US banking is just like " oh yeah that makes sense" and its over.
>*Chinese friend or partne...send it to your foreign account via Alipay* Does this still work? I thought they stopped allowing that a few years ago. That's how my wife and I used to do it until it stopped working.
All dependson the Person you are interacting with. Some don't know the rules, some have their own agenda... International Money Transfer took me typically 2h or more at BOC.
I've been told by a work colleague that opening up a bank with HSBC is a solution to this, but it costs ¥300 a month to maintain.
They're not going to do anything different from any other bank. The paperwork requirements come from the Chinese financial administration, not from the bank.
I don't know about that. I don't earn income in China but have transferred out when I had money sitting in China as just a previous expenditure account. Noting this was DBS rather the HSBC. No silly paperwork, a few clicks in the app, and a message later that same day confirming my request because the routing number had intermediary bank. I think the better banks internalize all the paperwork, if needed, and don't expose their customers to a bunch of nonsense.
The issue isn’t sending money out, it’s changing it to a foreign currency first. I have to go to the bank with tons of paperwork to change money to USD, then I send it out myself on an app which is easy. This is with bank of China.
Ah right, my offshore account can handle CNY (or CNY offshore oddity), so guess that wasn't an issue for me.
easy money is not easy, you have to sell your soul.
Are you an English teacher?
Somehow I don't think that matters.
Depends who you’re asking.
Nope, software engineer.
It's why crypto, blockchains and stablecoins are so useful. Permissionless. Takes 30 seconds to send $0.01 or $1billion and costs a fraction of a cent.