A lot of Chinese cities have parts that fit your description well - it would be difficult to go wrong, actually. You can immerse yourself with Chinese language speakers anywhere pretty easily - the suburbs of any city make it a lot easier, as most foreigners don't live in the suburbs. I would only just avoid Shanghai - it is the city where they are most likely to cater to English speakers
Shenzhen is the best of the major cities - you get a wide range of Chinese dialects, it is the most tech/modern city, it probably is the least Englishy (besides maybe GZ), not too hectic in general (the suburbs have quite a few e bikes, but the general modernity of the city helps mitigate that), its cheaper in the suburbs, and probably more potential opportunies in general due to its continuing growth. Just avoid Nanshan and Futian districts for living and I think you will get what you want
to learn Chinese and hopefully to live a quiet and satisfactory life: that doesn't apply to the average Dongbei city (they can be charmed, I travelled Dongbei extensively, but the comfort and warmth from people in the southern provinces and western provinces (Chengdu, Kunming?) is another thing.
Go to Dali. Relaxed, laidback, attracts people from all over the country so you’ll get exposure to a lot of different accents, doesn’t have too many foreigners, and is not too expensive. It is modern and high tech enough.
What's so bad about Dongbei overall?
I totally get why you wouldn't want to move someplace like Shenyang or Changchun, but Dalian is a lot different (at least it used to be).
Through multiple online interactions and real life as well, I’d say they are the one with worst manner in China, quick to blame others, will insult you on slightest thing in video games. In real life, they love making things up to bolster their ego, love to cheat. There is this saying, don’t invest any firms over 山海关，which literally means don’t invest in dongbei.
Well in this case I am discriminating people from dongbei, not racism lol. I understand it is just stereotypes, majority of them are hard working individuals. But as past experiences show, some individuals are tend to be assholes, and their accent does make them stand out lol
whatever you do don’t study chinese in the south. the farther the north is the more standard accent you will adapt. (source: currently studying chinese in guangdong)
Areas like nanjing and hangzhou is good.
If you don't mind extreme cold, consider north eastern part of china, like in heilongjiang province, because their chinese have no accent at all. Southern china's mandarin are often influenced by their local accent so sometimes it's difficult to understand.
Beijing and Shanghai is too crowded and too many foreigner in my opinion. I used to live in Suzhou and love it there, but i don't think there's a lot of good university with chinese language program there.
I picked up my Chinese in Nanjing, couldn't recommend it more. Climate isn't great, but local dialect isn't too far from Mandarin, it provided me more opportunities to take to people, now that I'm in Suzhou it's more difficult
I live in Suzhou and I was just gonna recommend Suzhou lol.
But honestly I think any second tier city would be quite well suited. Convenient but relatively low cost of living, most people speak mandarin, many people speak English, etc. Also for foreigners, second tier cities have enough foreigners that people don't stare at you all the time, and also not that many foreigners that it's relatively easy to step outside of the expat bubble if you so wish to. It's true that the Suzhou dialect is much more difficult to understand, but even the non-local Chinese don't understand it and they get by just fine... (I'm Chinese.)
That's true, I'm also reflecting on the pre Didi days. Taxi drivers all wanted to have a conversation and if they spoke the local dialect it wasn't a big issue in Nanjing. A few words here or there that were confusing, but generally comprehensible
Wow really? Whenever I talk to 东北人, their chinese always sounds the clearest for me. I guess it’s just because they know i’m a foreigner hahaha… sometimes beijing’s 儿 is too difficult to understand.
Really looking forward to go to Xi’an someday to travel tho…
Chengde if learning Mandarin is your main aim, as they don't have a regional accent.
For living then any of the places already mentioned.
Guangzhou or a lot of the places in the south will influence your Chinese language massively. Standard pronunciation is based on Chengde, but all of Hebei and the surrounding provinces are a safe bet. That said in any major city you can find people who speak standard Mandarin but your daily exposure with locals will be influenced by their area's regional dialect.
I see a lot of people mentioning local accents. Is it bad to have a local accent for a foreigner? Is it possible to correct the accent eventually? English isn't my first language but I picked up the British accent while living there and I can turn it on or off as needed, is it possible to do the same with Chinese?
It’s not just the accent that’s different, every region has their own 土话 so they may pronounce words differently, and also have different vocabulary for different words which makes it confusing.
As has already been said, your Chinese will be influenced, but you will be able to learn Chinese in any major city. The main issue is the influence that might come over from a local dialect. Hence the recommendation of Chengde which doesn't have one. I would still stand by anywhere in the north over the south, but it really depends what level you want to get to, it's always obvious where someone has learnt their Chinese.
Guangzhou could work but remember people speak Cantonese there. Maybe you should consider a Mandarin speaking area with good language schools. What about Beijing?
I was in Shenzhen last month and even though it’s a Mandarin speaking area, there aren’t many languages schools around…
Beijing has way too many foreigners so it’s too easy to be tempted to hang around with foreigners and speak English the whole time. Better to be in a tier 3 city with no foreigners imo
Not sure if you’d ever get caught but you definitely can’t legally run your business without an appropriate visa, which you wouldn’t be able to get as a student.
I used the term loosely, I'm not running a business, I just have some investments that I'm managing. When I say work, it just means keeping up with what's happening in the markets and rebalancing when there is a need.
If you are independently wealthy- and these investments are your own portfolio- they’ll love you for all the wrong reasons. But if you are saying you are managing investments on behalf of clients who in turn pay you a fee for that service- then that’s running a business, and if it’s not registered with the relevant local departments (there will be more than one), you will be in trouble: if that is ever revealed. I hasten to say you’ll be in trouble should you come across one of the few officials/ security personnel who can’t be paid off. Most of them can be.
It's purely my portfolio, I don't have any clients, independently wealthy I don't know since I'm not that wealthy lol but I have enough to get by with the profits I make
Hangzhou.
20 years here and it’s far and away the most livable place around.
Many fewer foreigners nowadays but enough you can make a connection if you like.
No choice but Taipei ONLY! Unless you want to learn the simplified Chinese which is not the original one and you will have a hard time to read the ancient Chinese literature.
Chongqing would definitely be the most affordable option and it ticks all of your boxes and although local often speak a local dialect, among the young generation it's not that dissimilar to mandarin and all young people speak mandarin nowadays
This is terrible advice. Do not go to CQ to learn Chinese, everyone speaks dialect all the time and when you ask them to speak standard they still have a heavy accent.
I learnt mandarin in Chongqing. Yes the yellow cab taxi drivers and older generation don't speak mandarin very well, but young people absolutely do. Every single province and city in china will have its own dialect and accent, avoiding that is near impossible unless you relegate every person who wants to learn mandarin to Beijing. And even in Beijing you'll run into heavy accent problems.
One of the worst places to learn standard mandarin. Don't get me wrong I love CQ and it's pretty much my home but to learn Chinese no way.
The local dialect is everywhere, even with young people, they still prefer to speak 重庆话. There are even some kids in my kindergarten who can't speak standard mandarin well at all.
Taiwan might be a better experience and still good pricing now than mainland China. Guangzhou, you’ll still find most people in the street speaking Cantonese, not Mandarin. But most can understand mandarin. But it won’t help you “ear” for the 4 tones of Mandarin, as Cantonese has its own tones.
Taiwan is more traditional than the mainland in many ways- which still hasn’t recovered from the chairman’s detestation of the “four olds”. Its modern culture is grounded in the old ROC and the (original) KMT/GMD movement, not its current incarnation. Taiwan is linked well to the West- it manages to straddle both East and West in a way the PRC tried to do in the nineties and noughties but which in the last 12 years it has completely rejected. Plus NO MORE VPNs or other TGFW horse manure. Taiwan would be my top choice if I was in my 20s again.
Shanghai. Or shenzhen. Or Beijing. Or Hangzhou. Or Guangzhou.
The best way to learn chinese is to find a wife / husband that speaks it natively. And you will be much better off to find a spouse from a developed city ( eg he/ she was born and raised in that city) that has gone overseas to a good quality university. And make sure they are reasonably well off, and from a single child family!
I mean of course, but for personal reasons I doubt I'll ever come close to marriage. I've been single most of my life, relationships isn't really something I'm good at.
I preferred staying in the country Taiwan (Taipei) to China (Beijing). I know they are wildly different plsces snd never made it to the South of China. Different accent and character set but traditional > simplified any day.
現在你可不可以看得懂中文字？
Thr food, though, was more flavourful in China.
Very very good! So many learners dont bother and writing/character recognition is awesome.
Well better is subjective honestly.
I had an easier time with traditional as I learned how to rexognize radicals. Once I got those down (which feel more distinct than simplified) I could guess meaning and sounds of different new characters.
隹 Being an example.
For my brian theres more to work with and I hate when there are similar characters that I have to guess the meaning of. They say its easier to learn traditional and then simplified which I can attest to. After spending a year in China (Fulbright scholar who attended CET in Beijing) and then moving to Taiwan I chose to go back to traditional and has to relearn so much.
If people had to worry about writing, Id say simplified but since we mostly 打字 these days...its not really that more difficult. I would honestly say its less.
My personal experience as student and sometimes tutor in Chinese.
A lot of Chinese cities have parts that fit your description well - it would be difficult to go wrong, actually. You can immerse yourself with Chinese language speakers anywhere pretty easily - the suburbs of any city make it a lot easier, as most foreigners don't live in the suburbs. I would only just avoid Shanghai - it is the city where they are most likely to cater to English speakers Shenzhen is the best of the major cities - you get a wide range of Chinese dialects, it is the most tech/modern city, it probably is the least Englishy (besides maybe GZ), not too hectic in general (the suburbs have quite a few e bikes, but the general modernity of the city helps mitigate that), its cheaper in the suburbs, and probably more potential opportunies in general due to its continuing growth. Just avoid Nanshan and Futian districts for living and I think you will get what you want
Learn Chinese, the best city would be some 2nd their place in Dongbei.
Absolutely not. Dongbei sucks. Terrible weather and northerns can be pretty hostile compared to southerners.
To "learn Chinese"
to learn Chinese and hopefully to live a quiet and satisfactory life: that doesn't apply to the average Dongbei city (they can be charmed, I travelled Dongbei extensively, but the comfort and warmth from people in the southern provinces and western provinces (Chengdu, Kunming?) is another thing.
Go to Dali. Relaxed, laidback, attracts people from all over the country so you’ll get exposure to a lot of different accents, doesn’t have too many foreigners, and is not too expensive. It is modern and high tech enough.
Well, but where in Dali? Dali main city is a dump, and Dai old town is a tourist trap. I would rather suggest Kunming, Lijiang or Hanzhou.
Came here to say Kunming. Very cool place. I’m also quite fond of Longyan City out in Fujian. It’s a bit out there, but not too many foreigners.
isn't Lijiang similar to Dali, in term of tourist trap? Totally agree on Kunming and Hangzhou
Qingdao! I just moved here and I think it's the best city in China. Ticks all boxes. Plus nothing can beat the climate.
Interested in this because I want to move to China so badly but I can’t take hot weather. Every where I want to move is hot 😭😭😭😭 lol
Qingdao hit 35C last summer on many occasions, plus it's by the sea so really humid. Pretty place, though.
Isn't it damp ?
Not too much
Dalian might be worth a try. I haven't been there for over 15 years, but it was a very pleasant place in 2008 or so.
Dalian is still Dongbei. I would avoid Dongbei.
What's so bad about Dongbei overall? I totally get why you wouldn't want to move someplace like Shenyang or Changchun, but Dalian is a lot different (at least it used to be).
Through multiple online interactions and real life as well, I’d say they are the one with worst manner in China, quick to blame others, will insult you on slightest thing in video games. In real life, they love making things up to bolster their ego, love to cheat. There is this saying, don’t invest any firms over 山海关，which literally means don’t invest in dongbei.
You are just racist lol
Well in this case I am discriminating people from dongbei, not racism lol. I understand it is just stereotypes, majority of them are hard working individuals. But as past experiences show, some individuals are tend to be assholes, and their accent does make them stand out lol
Is the plan to stay enrolled in Chinese classes with a student visa for several years?
Yes, is it doable? Not to game the system, but to actually learn Chinese. When the studies are over, I won't renew it obviously
Learning Chinese in China is a good ambition. Was curious about the visa plan. Good luck!
whatever you do don’t study chinese in the south. the farther the north is the more standard accent you will adapt. (source: currently studying chinese in guangdong)
Numerous people mentioned that so I think I'll go in the north yes
Areas like nanjing and hangzhou is good. If you don't mind extreme cold, consider north eastern part of china, like in heilongjiang province, because their chinese have no accent at all. Southern china's mandarin are often influenced by their local accent so sometimes it's difficult to understand. Beijing and Shanghai is too crowded and too many foreigner in my opinion. I used to live in Suzhou and love it there, but i don't think there's a lot of good university with chinese language program there.
I picked up my Chinese in Nanjing, couldn't recommend it more. Climate isn't great, but local dialect isn't too far from Mandarin, it provided me more opportunities to take to people, now that I'm in Suzhou it's more difficult
I live in Suzhou and I was just gonna recommend Suzhou lol. But honestly I think any second tier city would be quite well suited. Convenient but relatively low cost of living, most people speak mandarin, many people speak English, etc. Also for foreigners, second tier cities have enough foreigners that people don't stare at you all the time, and also not that many foreigners that it's relatively easy to step outside of the expat bubble if you so wish to. It's true that the Suzhou dialect is much more difficult to understand, but even the non-local Chinese don't understand it and they get by just fine... (I'm Chinese.)
That's true, I'm also reflecting on the pre Didi days. Taxi drivers all wanted to have a conversation and if they spoke the local dialect it wasn't a big issue in Nanjing. A few words here or there that were confusing, but generally comprehensible
I'm sorry, 東北 has no accent? They have the thickest accent of any region I can think of, except for maybe 四川/廣西.
1) 东北人 definitely have an accent. 2) The 东北 accent is discriminated against and you do not particularly want to pick it up.
Chinese here. If you prefer no accent, move to Beijing. The next best is Xi,an. If you pick up north eastern accent, you will sound hilarious. lol
Wow really? Whenever I talk to 东北人, their chinese always sounds the clearest for me. I guess it’s just because they know i’m a foreigner hahaha… sometimes beijing’s 儿 is too difficult to understand. Really looking forward to go to Xi’an someday to travel tho…
我应该说点儿啥？
说说你们那嘎达的事呗
I would say I prefer Southern Chinese people over northerners.
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It's likely the most popular choice in reality nowadays
Chengde if learning Mandarin is your main aim, as they don't have a regional accent. For living then any of the places already mentioned. Guangzhou or a lot of the places in the south will influence your Chinese language massively. Standard pronunciation is based on Chengde, but all of Hebei and the surrounding provinces are a safe bet. That said in any major city you can find people who speak standard Mandarin but your daily exposure with locals will be influenced by their area's regional dialect.
I see a lot of people mentioning local accents. Is it bad to have a local accent for a foreigner? Is it possible to correct the accent eventually? English isn't my first language but I picked up the British accent while living there and I can turn it on or off as needed, is it possible to do the same with Chinese?
It’s not just the accent that’s different, every region has their own 土话 so they may pronounce words differently, and also have different vocabulary for different words which makes it confusing.
What about Chongqing? Looks like a really cool city and not expensive
As has already been said, your Chinese will be influenced, but you will be able to learn Chinese in any major city. The main issue is the influence that might come over from a local dialect. Hence the recommendation of Chengde which doesn't have one. I would still stand by anywhere in the north over the south, but it really depends what level you want to get to, it's always obvious where someone has learnt their Chinese.
Harbin for the accent, but not for the brutal winter lol.
Harbin is a great option! Sus it out
Qingdao
Harbin
Noooooooooo, I hate this city. Lived her for many years, it’s terrible. Terrible weather, food, culture, everything sucks
It’s the most neutral accent
Guangzhou could work but remember people speak Cantonese there. Maybe you should consider a Mandarin speaking area with good language schools. What about Beijing? I was in Shenzhen last month and even though it’s a Mandarin speaking area, there aren’t many languages schools around…
Beijing has way too many foreigners so it’s too easy to be tempted to hang around with foreigners and speak English the whole time. Better to be in a tier 3 city with no foreigners imo
Yes, I think the important thing is to find a solid Chinese language academy, that offers good prices and visa sponsorship.
Not sure if you’d ever get caught but you definitely can’t legally run your business without an appropriate visa, which you wouldn’t be able to get as a student.
I used the term loosely, I'm not running a business, I just have some investments that I'm managing. When I say work, it just means keeping up with what's happening in the markets and rebalancing when there is a need.
If you are independently wealthy- and these investments are your own portfolio- they’ll love you for all the wrong reasons. But if you are saying you are managing investments on behalf of clients who in turn pay you a fee for that service- then that’s running a business, and if it’s not registered with the relevant local departments (there will be more than one), you will be in trouble: if that is ever revealed. I hasten to say you’ll be in trouble should you come across one of the few officials/ security personnel who can’t be paid off. Most of them can be.
It's purely my portfolio, I don't have any clients, independently wealthy I don't know since I'm not that wealthy lol but I have enough to get by with the profits I make
Maybe Chengdu is a good choice
kunming would be my pick
Hangzhou. 20 years here and it’s far and away the most livable place around. Many fewer foreigners nowadays but enough you can make a connection if you like.
Xiamen
No choice but Taipei ONLY! Unless you want to learn the simplified Chinese which is not the original one and you will have a hard time to read the ancient Chinese literature.
Chongqing would definitely be the most affordable option and it ticks all of your boxes and although local often speak a local dialect, among the young generation it's not that dissimilar to mandarin and all young people speak mandarin nowadays
This is terrible advice. Do not go to CQ to learn Chinese, everyone speaks dialect all the time and when you ask them to speak standard they still have a heavy accent.
I learnt mandarin in Chongqing. Yes the yellow cab taxi drivers and older generation don't speak mandarin very well, but young people absolutely do. Every single province and city in china will have its own dialect and accent, avoiding that is near impossible unless you relegate every person who wants to learn mandarin to Beijing. And even in Beijing you'll run into heavy accent problems.
I would recommend Chengdu over Chongqing thou.
That's fair, they both have their pros and cons. I personally just prefer Chongqing over Chengdu
Mmh that sounds interesting, plus the city does look pretty cool
It's a great city, I lived there for 2 and a half years, I'd move back in a heartbeat if I could
One of the worst places to learn standard mandarin. Don't get me wrong I love CQ and it's pretty much my home but to learn Chinese no way. The local dialect is everywhere, even with young people, they still prefer to speak 重庆话. There are even some kids in my kindergarten who can't speak standard mandarin well at all.
Taipei
Taiwan might be a better experience and still good pricing now than mainland China. Guangzhou, you’ll still find most people in the street speaking Cantonese, not Mandarin. But most can understand mandarin. But it won’t help you “ear” for the 4 tones of Mandarin, as Cantonese has its own tones.
Isn't Taiwan drastically more expensive than mainland though? Not to mention traditional hanzi
Taiwan is more traditional than the mainland in many ways- which still hasn’t recovered from the chairman’s detestation of the “four olds”. Its modern culture is grounded in the old ROC and the (original) KMT/GMD movement, not its current incarnation. Taiwan is linked well to the West- it manages to straddle both East and West in a way the PRC tried to do in the nineties and noughties but which in the last 12 years it has completely rejected. Plus NO MORE VPNs or other TGFW horse manure. Taiwan would be my top choice if I was in my 20s again.
Shanghai. Or shenzhen. Or Beijing. Or Hangzhou. Or Guangzhou. The best way to learn chinese is to find a wife / husband that speaks it natively. And you will be much better off to find a spouse from a developed city ( eg he/ she was born and raised in that city) that has gone overseas to a good quality university. And make sure they are reasonably well off, and from a single child family!
I mean of course, but for personal reasons I doubt I'll ever come close to marriage. I've been single most of my life, relationships isn't really something I'm good at.
I preferred staying in the country Taiwan (Taipei) to China (Beijing). I know they are wildly different plsces snd never made it to the South of China. Different accent and character set but traditional > simplified any day. 現在你可不可以看得懂中文字？ Thr food, though, was more flavourful in China.
我可以读一点，but simplified, not traditional. Why is traditional better? Seems way harder to learn
Very very good! So many learners dont bother and writing/character recognition is awesome. Well better is subjective honestly. I had an easier time with traditional as I learned how to rexognize radicals. Once I got those down (which feel more distinct than simplified) I could guess meaning and sounds of different new characters. 隹 Being an example. For my brian theres more to work with and I hate when there are similar characters that I have to guess the meaning of. They say its easier to learn traditional and then simplified which I can attest to. After spending a year in China (Fulbright scholar who attended CET in Beijing) and then moving to Taiwan I chose to go back to traditional and has to relearn so much. If people had to worry about writing, Id say simplified but since we mostly 打字 these days...its not really that more difficult. I would honestly say its less. My personal experience as student and sometimes tutor in Chinese.
why do you emphasize on "country"?