u/hammerjitsu
u/dadumdingo has a list of good points, which I agree with.
It also is not a structural material. You can build a soffit out of pine that's 16 in wide and if it is properly fastened and installed it will maintain its shape for a few hundred years. A 12-in PVC soffit will start to bow under its own weight after a few New England Winters.
PVC moves around a lot from changes in temperature which is something you don't see with wood. It expands in all three dimensions in the summer, contracts the same way in the winter. Through this cycle it starts to get really brittle so if there's any reason to remove a piece it's generally not possible to reuse that piece. I can remove and preserve/restore a 250-year-old pine molding without facing too many problems.
Allowing a house to breathe is another Factor in my work. Now I know that all modern houses are being built sealed up like an ice box, built with many composite materials, and require air handling and circulation systems in order to not rot from the inside... But I mostly correct problems with older houses and churches, generally pre-1850s. Using modern materials that don't breathe (especially when applied as a Band-Aid because someone sees rot on the outside) generally it only traps moisture behind it and exacerbates existing moisture issues without getting to the root cause.
A lot of homeowners think that expensive means high quality, this is not the case with pvc. It's expensive, environmentally damaging to manufacture, impossible to dispose of or recycle ethically, and on and on.
If you do the type of work in the drawings that you posted I think you're at a level where you can start reaching out to local sawyers and create your own supply chain of higher quality wood products. I think you're definitely in a position to educate yourself and the client on methods of construction, and sell them on the idea that PVC is a low quality product for a lot of money.
What kind of problems do you run into? People seem to think it's the next best maintenance-free product. I prefer wood but customers keep asking for pvc.
I personally feel like PVC hides any issues that are developing, and is a product for house flippers. You still have to clean it, you still have to paint it (or you ought to) and it dents easily. Plus when you discover you have rot behind the PVC (because it doesn’t allow any moisture to escape) you still end up beating up most of the trim material anyway, because it’s so soft so you have to fill those dents or replace wood.
Wood in that way is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for water intrusion issues, and if you choose your material right (ie not the cheap crap) it can last a long time. That sacrificial aspect can save framing by alerting you to issues earlier on.
Finally for me, environmentally, wood sequesters some carbon (at least temporarily), but pvc can literally never be a green material, it’s absolute best possible scenario is net zero. Plus PVC sawdust is the snow that never melts, and I would be blown away if it doesn’t also get absorbed into your body as microplastics, as well as seeping into the surrounding environment.
Basically PVC is terrible
30k for labor. Plus materials.
Not sure what I'm digging into.
Epdm roof PITA tax.
Lots of fussy details. Details take time. Even when things are premade. Sometimes especially when things are premade.
On a side note. Is there a chippendale style fad going on right now? I've seen this pop up more than a few times recently.
Edit: clarity of “ballpark”.
Gorgeous drawings.
I've done porches like this, probably around 100k.
That's what I'm coming up with. Around $110k
Yup, sounds about right.
What’s your plan to prevent ice damming on that balcony? Looks killer btw. You’ll do well at $110k and they will too.
I'm in western NY btw
Then its 50-60k
How do you figure? I would guess closer to 80k. A basic 10x10 deck is 30k.
Its storm season so....50% more than whatever was quoted😋
tree fiddy
And a ham sammy
$250K dollarbucks
Be careful of PVC. It only solves for rot, in my trade I find myself correcting all the problems it creates.
u/hammerjitsu u/dadumdingo has a list of good points, which I agree with. It also is not a structural material. You can build a soffit out of pine that's 16 in wide and if it is properly fastened and installed it will maintain its shape for a few hundred years. A 12-in PVC soffit will start to bow under its own weight after a few New England Winters. PVC moves around a lot from changes in temperature which is something you don't see with wood. It expands in all three dimensions in the summer, contracts the same way in the winter. Through this cycle it starts to get really brittle so if there's any reason to remove a piece it's generally not possible to reuse that piece. I can remove and preserve/restore a 250-year-old pine molding without facing too many problems. Allowing a house to breathe is another Factor in my work. Now I know that all modern houses are being built sealed up like an ice box, built with many composite materials, and require air handling and circulation systems in order to not rot from the inside... But I mostly correct problems with older houses and churches, generally pre-1850s. Using modern materials that don't breathe (especially when applied as a Band-Aid because someone sees rot on the outside) generally it only traps moisture behind it and exacerbates existing moisture issues without getting to the root cause. A lot of homeowners think that expensive means high quality, this is not the case with pvc. It's expensive, environmentally damaging to manufacture, impossible to dispose of or recycle ethically, and on and on. If you do the type of work in the drawings that you posted I think you're at a level where you can start reaching out to local sawyers and create your own supply chain of higher quality wood products. I think you're definitely in a position to educate yourself and the client on methods of construction, and sell them on the idea that PVC is a low quality product for a lot of money.
What kind of problems do you run into? People seem to think it's the next best maintenance-free product. I prefer wood but customers keep asking for pvc.
I personally feel like PVC hides any issues that are developing, and is a product for house flippers. You still have to clean it, you still have to paint it (or you ought to) and it dents easily. Plus when you discover you have rot behind the PVC (because it doesn’t allow any moisture to escape) you still end up beating up most of the trim material anyway, because it’s so soft so you have to fill those dents or replace wood. Wood in that way is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for water intrusion issues, and if you choose your material right (ie not the cheap crap) it can last a long time. That sacrificial aspect can save framing by alerting you to issues earlier on. Finally for me, environmentally, wood sequesters some carbon (at least temporarily), but pvc can literally never be a green material, it’s absolute best possible scenario is net zero. Plus PVC sawdust is the snow that never melts, and I would be blown away if it doesn’t also get absorbed into your body as microplastics, as well as seeping into the surrounding environment. Basically PVC is terrible
70-100k depending on materials and finishes
30k for labor. Plus materials. Not sure what I'm digging into. Epdm roof PITA tax. Lots of fussy details. Details take time. Even when things are premade. Sometimes especially when things are premade. On a side note. Is there a chippendale style fad going on right now? I've seen this pop up more than a few times recently. Edit: clarity of “ballpark”.
Yes it's big and fussy. I estimated much more than that though. Like 4x more...
[удалено]
Yeah. Sorry. I should have specified. That’s for labor only. And for my part of the world.
It's about $25k in materials, $30k for the whole thing? Man, you're hired.
Dude don’t hire someone who underbids. It means they don’t know what they’re talking about or are desperate for work. Both bad situations.