When I lived in Clifton cops showed up to parties all the time due to noise complaints and we had to disperse. Not sure how this is any different.
Also, why are kids partying at the school grounds after graduation? That should be done at a private residence.
Withrow has that park area right by the road. I don’t know if it’s actually part of the school or not. But it looks/functions as a public park, I see it used frequently by groups of people that don’t look school aged. Based on what other people were saying I think that’s where the party was
Exactly, you get what you vote for. Police don’t want to make a big deal out of it and get trashed as racist or escalate something that is nothing.
But then this is the flip side.
But more importantly, kids should be able to hang without shooting each other so yea, who knows what the answer is
> Police don’t want to make a big deal out of it and get trashed as racist or escalate something that is nothing.
Exactly. The videos that would have ended up on social media would have shown a bunch of black teens hanging out as CPD stormed in and arrested them. Can you imagine how mad this subreddit would be over something like that?
So obviously CPD just ignores calls like this. Theetge is putting it about as PC as she can. 15 years ago every one of these kids would have been arrested for a curfew violation. Now CPD won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. And the result is kids end up dead.
I think the second part of this is the main point. I mean, how many times has a gathering like this happened without anybody getting shot? Probably hundreds. And even dispersing everybody doesn’t mean they just aren’t going to regroup somewhere else and do the exact same thing. This actually seems like one of those things there isn’t much you can do to fix, as much as it might be nice to
The comment "don't make guns so accessible" makes it seem like we can just turn off a switch. There are so many guns out there, many of them not legal or trackable. Making it harder to legally acquire a gun will not clear up anything about illegal weapons or the plethora of them already out there
That genie is never going back in the bottle. If teen party disruption is too bad of optics for the police and city, what do you think gun removal from everyone would be?
It's simply no longer an option no matter how bad some people want it.
There are a few differences but I think the main difference is that you’re less likely to get ganged up on and shot at by a group of college students at a house party. You might have a drunk or two resist but most students will disperse and move on to the next spot. The level of tension and potential for the need to use force is different.
There was a post the other day about this horrible tragedy with people in the comments saying to let the kids be kids and party and don’t be a snitch and cops shouldn’t be harassing them after they just graduated etc etc etc.
Then you get posts like this saying the 6 cops that District 2 has on duty for all 25+ sq miles at night should go against 30+ kids and start hooking them for curfew for example.
Then people say the cops are trampling on their rights if they do such a thing.
Then if the cops showed up and arrested a few of them and tried to disperse the crowd people would shit on that and tell people to leave them alone and stop calling the police to end a party because “you never got invited to one when you where in school”. (Actual comments I read on the last one)
There is no winning in the public’s eye here for anyone. People say “arrest them for curfew!”
Ok, let’s break that down… half a dozen cops at best… let just assume for the sake of the conversation they grab 6 juveniles and hook them. What does that crowd do? The Officers are now in the care of the children they put cuffs on. So now you’re out one cop. The 5 left get another, down to 4… but we still have a crowd of 30+ right?
You’ll say it needs to be done, while others will say “those pigs got nothing better to do than to shut down a party in celebration of completing high school?!”
No one cares until someone loses their life. Then they’ll forget about it next weekend and we will repeat.
This exactly. Everyone wants less police involvement and to defund the police etc but then shit like this happens. There was no way the cops could have won in this situation. People would be mad if they broke the party up “This party wouldn’t have been broken up if it were white kids!!” And now they are mad they didn’t. I feel terrible for the child that died’s family. And I also would never want to be a cop.
In my case I never said they should have busted anyone. But for the chief to stand there and basically lie that her hands are tied is bullshit.
You and I can easily ask “well what should those 6 cops do when they have bigger fish to fry” but it’s leadership’s job to provide that solution. They should have experience at this sort of thing…they should have discussed best practices and tactics years ago when it became clear that large groups of kids were a problem. This is something that every large city has to address regularly.
I’m not focusing on this event so much as the fact that events like this KEEP HAPPENING, and leadership just shrugs and makes speeches.
Bigger fish… In hindsight it’s easy to say this party that turned into a shooting would be the top of the list but if the city was perfect and had shut this down (again, a lot of people bitching about how it shouldn’t be shut down and your picking on kids who have done nothing wrong and just celebrating)
There are pending calls for assaults, domestic violence, stolen car etc… people then complain it took hours and hours to get a response because “those pigs are harassing kids who simply want to celebrate a great achievement”. So the cops try an be cool and understanding and see no violence or illegal activities outside of possible curfews and let it go… should we assume all groups of young adults are going to end badly? Isn’t that prejudice?
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone’s points here… I’m simply saying there is ZERO winning because it’s everyone’s fault but the parents and or courts that don’t do a fucking thing to these kids that commit crimes.
Cops can arrest the kids and then the courts will dismiss the case and they are back out doing the same shit. IMO controlling the teens starts at home, then the community they reside in. However generation after generation on single parent homes and failing neighborhoods chickens have come home to roost.
Huge difference between handling a call-in and finding something to break up, and driving around to find problems. Also since when is Hyde Park an at-risk neighborhood
It’s a failure of CPD leadership to not have established acceptable rules of engagement, but they too fearful of those on oversight committee. Until the do this, will continue to lose experienced officers & struggle to attract recruits.
We should have robust educational and recreational programs available for our community’s children. Unfortunately, kids increasingly have fewer and fewer options and outlets available to them in part because we choose to overwhelmingly invest in policing ($166,033,390 or 39% of the general fund). Comparatively, recreation and community and economic development gets ~$21m. We’re also talking about a time where schools, which are still unconstitutionally funded in this state, are being stripped of funding and are forced to cut more and more programs.
So citations they can just ball up and throw on the ground? Productive.
Good luck getting them to even give you their parents number for the slim chance they’ll pick up and care.
They won’t give you a number so you put them in cuffs to bring them to 2020? Now they’re fighting you and you’re on the news for using force on a child for a minor misdemeanor arrest. Oh and there are still 29 kids out here.
I feel like this is making a mountain out of a molehill. Police can ask people to leave an area if they're causing a disruption without any major issues.
"You don't have to go home but you can't stay here" or what have you can't be done?
As one of those police who have asked people to leave for causing a disruption, it does cause major issues when they’re juveniles.
If it is an out of hand party, we do break it up. Coerce, yell, say please, threaten, they will not leave on notification. You will have to arrest a couple before they start to disperse. The ones you arrest will almost always resist with violence. Tensions will be high, fights break out with each other too, so you’ll have to prioritize who you arrest based on seriousness because there’s 3 of you and 30-60 of them. Kids will run in the street, many will refuse to leave and since now you have 4 assault arrests from the fights you can’t reasonably arrest them too.
I’ve done it before and I’m sure another is coming up soon. It’s a shit show 100% of the time and the party goes on while calls stack up.
Damn. Sorry to hear that. I was wrong in assuming it was easy.
Back in high school when we threw parties out in parks, if the police showed up, we all just scattered once they gave us a warning. Sorry for presuming.
Because you and I had parents that would punish us if the police brought us home. These kids in the city today are on their own. They frustrate me, but I pity them. Adulthood will not be easy for them.
Well good thing a teen died, otherwise a few grown adults would have to drop the donuts and get their hands dirty. I was at many large parties that got disbanded by police, just police showing up alone cleared everyone out. This is Withrow not Compton.
Got it. It's a hard job. Can get difficult. You're outnumbered. You can't just tell them they're trespassing and they need to leave. You can't find any other way to deal with it besides to arrest your way or of it. So a dead kid is better.
All one way or the other in Cincy.
Do you have a creative alternate solution? Usually we don’t arrest because it’s not out of hand, we just hang out there and violence doesn’t occur. Problems arise when we have to leave for other calls. Exactly what happened at Withrow.
You think we want these kids to die? We’re the ones who try to stop the hemorrhaging before the ambulance gets there. Have you ever applied a tourniquet to a child? No? Just a useless critic with nothing constructive to offer.
Did anyone tell them they were trespassing and send them home? Did anyone look at the situation and see #1 illegal behavior (trespassing, curfew), #2 high probability that unsupervised kids hanging out that late are gonna beef and when they beef, that means shootings because kids don't throw hands anymore. Or did everyone just shrug and take the easy way out as usual? Sit there looking at them until another call for service came in and then get all shocked when the outcome was predictable. Someone called because they saw a problem. Ya'll got there, saw no problem, split, and a kid died, but it's not on CPD? Go ahead and come for me. Act like I'm the problem because I know CPD supervisors are telling you guys not to arrest people almost no matter what. Tell me it's my fault. Ask me for creative solutions. I got one. Get all hands on deck including the chief and those supervisors who are trying to skew the stats to make things look better than they actually are. And yes, I have put a tourniquet on a child, so take your smug self-righteousness and jam it.
I think the fact that they were on school grounds in early morning hours would be a violation in and of itself. I don’t know about Withrow, but many schools prohibit non-school activities after hours.
The greater point being, if we know that large groups of kids together after midnight generally results in crime, then maybe we should do something other than throw up our hands and say “we have no tools to deal with this”.
We legitimately don’t have tools to deal with this. We’ll stay in the parking lot until the inevitable DV call comes out across the beat, which is when the shooter takes his chance (unless it was at one of the other 4 get togethers we also don’t have the resources to be security for).
Probably gonna get downvoted for this, but I’m one of the people who would be seen as criticizing cops for overstepping. But in this situation, I would not (as long as they didn’t use violence or arrest people unnecessarily). Like just dispersing them or calling parents I’d have been totally fine with and that’s what they should’ve done. I don’t want cops to do nothing, I just don’t want them to abuse their power. This is a big part of why the system needs to be overhauled. Because they don’t do their jobs when they should, and then they use violence or abuse power when they should t do anything. It’s so bizarre.
The problem is that dispersing a large group of kids, at least one of whom was armed, carries with it a good possibility of some bad result. The problem is not kids partying, even if after midnight and even if on public property. It's the moron who brought the gun. When we find out who the shooter is, its likely he or she will have had multiple criminal or juvenile contacts already and will have experienced no real consequences from those contacts.
There were reports of people shooting at each other, not one kid just shooting everyone up. Not sure how doing nothing and a teen dying is seen as the best end result.
I don't live in a world where I think all cops are great and should he immune to accountability. I think they should be set to a high standard given the amount of power they have. like any industry filled with human beings, some are great and some have no business there. The rest are regular folk just trying to do what they think is right.
But in many cases people seem to just view the result of something and then decide what should have been done. That's a luxury these officers don't have.
It's certainly not an easy situation. But sometimes it doesn't matter what they do. People will go nuts about them regardless.
There is probably a lot of in between there that we are not going to see. I get a bad feeling about them, but I only see the bad on media, so I don't know any different.
Not really sure you can just blanket assume a bunch of kids hanging out at night means someone’s going to get shot or a serious crime will happen. If CPD has the resources to deal with curfew violations or trespassing on school property then great, but it’s a huge leap to lay a shooting at their feet because they didn’t prioritize a situation that wasn’t presenting any major risk.
Teachers and administrators are able to get students to disperse and leave school grounds when there aren’t after school activities but police cry that they can’t do it.
I and many families in the area take our toddlers to Hyde Park elementary’s playground after school hours all the time. This is something that happens in many elementary schools and this would ban this as well. You can’t selectively ban activities.
Bro my mom took that shit so serious that the night before I left for basic training I tried to stay out past my curfew and she pulled up to the party I was at (Norwood pool at 12am) and made me get in the car
No win situation. Break it up many people complain they are profiling young AA people who were doing nothing wrong. Just heavy-handed racist cops.
Someone gets shot. wtf, do your job CPD!
Teenagers getting together after hours is common all over the city. That in and of itself is not solvable by the police department for two reasons.
First and foremost, rolling with ~8 officers on night shift for an entire district means if we start making curfew arrests, no one will be available for call response. Get togethers of 20+ aren’t uncommon, so as long as they keep it calm and aren’t bothering the neighborhood, we’ll remind them to keep it quiet and let them be. We can’t allocate all our night resources to mass arrests for simple curfew violations, as if the resulting uses of force from groups fighting back wouldn’t enrage the public to boot.
Secondly, I’ll remind you that juvenile court doesn’t apply consequences to vehicle theft or assault, let alone giving a parent consequences for allowing curfew violations. It’s simply not a priority to the officials we all elected. If you really care, bring it to their attention too.
I reached out to the juvenile court system after I lost an eye to some teenagers with violent records and was disappointed in the response. In subsequent interviews the judges have made it clear that the only solution they're willing to pursue is a continuation of the sentencing policies that have exacerbated this mess.
I think voting them out might be the only resolution.
We have seen a moderate decrease in crime overall since the wild west that was the summer of 2020. However we've simultaneously seen a massive increasing juvenile crime and I think the stats likely wildly underestimate just how bad it is do to many records being sealed, charges never being filed, etc. In the next ~5 years I suspect we're going to see a massive increase in crime as the young criminals graduate to adulthood believing there are no repercussions for bad behavior.
There's been a noticeable change in sentencing followed by a noticeable increase in juvenile crime. It's fair to wonder if we've overcorrected and ponder the implications of that.
There are little to no consequences for kids breaking into vehicles and now they do so with near total immunity, often to arm themselves and further endanger one another
I don't know. I think it's a bit lazy to reference a 50 year old trope in reference to legitimate concerns.
Nobody wants violence to just be accepted as a societal norm. But the solutions to it have to come from earlier interventions. Expecting the cops to just be able to swoop in at the last second before it happens and arrest people, and now there's no violence problem anymore, is just unrealistic.
I see your point that it was public property and that there's an observed correlation between violence and large groups of teenagers after midnight. Maybe the cops should have broken it up on that basis. But let's not make a logical mistake and assume that this tragedy wouldn't have happened anyway at a different time. As long as we live in a free society, there will always be opportunities for violence.
We need more community level, economic support to make an impact on this problem. Kids (and as in this case, young adults) who want to shoot each other will find a way. We need to find ways to make them not want to shoot each other.
People who do try to make a difference don't get supported. I have a friend who has been teaching martial arts in one of the rec centers for 30+ years. She would have a hundred or more kids in her program. She charged barely enough to cover expenses and bought all of their equipment out of her own funds. She accompanied them to tournaments and events (that she often paid for) and personally mentored many of them over the years. She taught them manners, focus, and goal-setting skills.
A lot of her kids went on to become community leaders - lawyers, doctors, executives. One is on city council.
But her program is the first one that gets cast aside by CRC. She went from 4 hours a week to 1. Now, they're moving her out of the gym for adult pickleball.
Kids in that neighborhood have the opportunity to learn discipline and self-esteem from a loving, dedicated adult and no one cares enough to let it happen.
So, here’s the thing. Whatever this group/generation we are looking at has been completely abandoned by any adult or mentor. Sort of like the Lost Boys from Neverland.
I’ve been at the funerals of these kids and they all are dressed head to toe in adidas gear, smoking weed, packing heat, heads on a swivel. It’s a lost generation.
I agree with this take. While everyone argues the policing aspect and what they could’ve done differently, what about turning accountability to the parents of the kids? Yeah, kids are going to do what they want and be sneaky under your nose but at some point, home life/guidance HAS to change for the better.
the parents have long not loved nor wanted that kid... as a former inner city primary school teacher... these people are having kids that are seen as nothing but property and burdens. And tbh, its been happening since the 90s.
Cycles of teen pregnancy and generational poverty are so hard to break. That's why access to contraceptives and abortion to manage family planning, as well as labor rights from work/life balance to benefits to livable wages are important. To make sure parents have the resources to properly be parents.
If a parent, of either gender, doesnt have the means or the wisdom to raise a child, it will need the community to help raise it and as you can see by the comments-- the easiest way out is to incarcerate them, IGNORE THEM MORE. Some of these teens are already parents themselves....
What do you want done? There is no magic cure. There is not one thing that will change this. People will try to point fingers, but that is more about letting people off the hook. No one is blameless, but everyone’s share of the blame is not the same. Most importantly, there are NOT certain groups/classes of people to blame, but people will certainly try to do that.
Actually locking up children who break the law would be a good start. They continue to let these idiots off with a slap on the wrist and they continue to commit worse and worse crimes. Being a minor should not mean you're allowed to do whatever you want with no consequences.
Locking up children is not a proactive solution. Ensuring they go through required social programs that help them develop and mature into a young adult is definitely needed.
Many children are born in a cyclically harmful environment. If their parents aren't involved/mature and they live in a harsh environment then how are they going to confront their own shortcomings and develop themselves without help.
Edit: I swear this sub is always braindead about understanding how the world works. Feel free to continue to downvote me because you think that everyone has two college graduate parents who are involved in your life. Like how hard of a concept is it to understand. Punishing children and teens for not knowing any better or not having a support system and expecting them to also grow up and be good parents and not have children who also then dont knownany better...do you have any capability of critical thinking?
What part of childhood do you miss that shooting people with guns is wrong? If you’re 18 and don’t know that a party with guns is a bad idea then that’s on you alone. Darwinism at its finest.
Do you think they are just shooting each other for shits and giggles? People grow up in broken households, in broken families, and in situations where violence, drugs, gangbanging are commonplace. If you grow up and having family who is in and out of prison and know many people who have been shot, are you not going to be desensitized to the idea of death, violence, and crime? Clearly this was some sort of escalated scenario between people who arent living a clean life
Does the loss of life and quality of life not matter for the less fortunate? Should these young impressionable people not be given the chance to disassociate from the toxic life they grew up in and get the support they deserve?
Everything in your comment screams "mommy and daddy still pay my car insurance"
People inherently know the difference between right and wrong. I don’t care how broken your home is - you know it’s wrong to murder someone at a high school graduation party over an argument. Hope these dumb kids wake up but they won’t. Most will be dead or in jail.
Car insurance jab is weird but I guess that sounded cool in your head.
Depends on intent and degree of the murder. I agree that cold blooded intended murder at a young age is difficult to rehabilitate. An immature idiot young adult who doesn't understand mortality and recklessly fired a weapon at someone else firing a weapon? If there is remorse, guilt, etc then yes there is still a possibility for rehabilitation. Also reports were that guns were being fired at each other. And yes, if you grow up where conflict is solved with a gun then there isn't some black and white sense of mortality at play. Most of you glorify this via old western movies.
The way the world works, at least in a civilized society, is that laws are made and our elected authorities are expected to enforce the laws. This thread is about the comments made by the police chief and how they say they can't do anything. The mayor and city manager have ordered the police to not do anything so that the crime statistics will be reduced.
As far as children are concerned, the parents in a civilized society are responsible for their health and well-being, as well as learning and respecting the law. We are in a 60-year decline in civilization because a growing number of citizens do not share any responsibility for their kids nor do they respect the law.
The fact that you think that low crime rates over time is from "ordering police not to do anything", says a lot about your distorted view of the world. Do you think all the victims of violence are just disappearing and also not counted? Also consider that not everyone has parents who are credentialed to be a parent, that are together, that are alive, that are involved
when are children taught the laws? .... when do you want to start locking them up? 4th grade, when they steal their first candy bar? maybe 7th grade when they are caught smoking behind the Kroger?... we all know this comes from poor parenting and jail is not a replacement for parenting. We really need to do something soon, because more and more kids are being dragged up, instead of raised up.
Adults don't get thrown in jail for stealing a candy bar or smoking behind kroger. They do go to jail when they break into cars and get caught with illegal guns though, but for some reason if you are 17 or younger you get nothing but a slap on the wrist for it. If you commit an adult crime you should go to jail no matter what your age is.
so you want children, to be charged as an adult... even tho they arent adults. The police did not get out and search for guns. Do you really think putting a kid in an adult jail is going to turn them into a good adult? really?
I'm probably not the only one who sees this as 'damned if you do; damned if you don't'
Cops break up the party, they're A'holes, maybe even racist because they're doing at Withrow and there's loads of other house parties going on in Hyde Park and Clifton. And if they don't respond, then this happens.
Difference is "house parties". This was not a house party. This was a party that was being held on private property without permission. It's called trespassing.
I get it, but maybe we have to stop seeing this as a black/white or rich/poor issue. We have plenty of statistics that show that Cincinnati kids/young adults are at a much higher risk to become victims of/ participants in violence after midnight. Either we act on this data or we don’t. I understand race is a hot button issue, but at some point we have to ‘trust the science’ as the saying goes.
The Hyde park and Lakota kids aren’t shooting each other…it’s really a straw man argument.
After midnight is when shit goes down. Even for adults. In Clermont County's Miami Townships, a lot of the cop job is busting high school parties. But then again, what else is going on? That and the cops can play cowboys and give the high schoolers lectures and a neat experience with the court system.
In Cincinnati, these after hour parties are commonplace for kids and adults and they're happening all over the place.
The Chief has taken the position to lower the amount of patrol officers in CPD. Essentially, each district is staffed only with enough officers to handle radio runs. They are not staffed for any proactive policing and any critical incidents or runs that require a large response such as this, cause havoc and the district to go code 0. The current Chief and city administration is ok with a much slower and inadequate police response because they have different priorities. Complaining about the police does nothing because they can’t create more officers out of thin air. In this case District 2 simply does not have the man power to deal with teenagers that are only causing quality of life problems. Unfortunately, this backfired and a life was lost. Let’s hope that city administration takes notice.
The cops are turning a blind eye because these party gatherings that turn violent are a symptom of a much greater problem and tepid half measures that most of the public supports are not effective. The risk/reward is heavily weighed towards things going south and losing your job versus doing things right and not getting any reward. Cops aren't parents. If people seriously want to shut these parties down using the cops then they need to understand what the consequences of that will be.
Police aren’t regularly held accountable for shooting people but you’re arguing that they risk losing their jobs over breaking up an unauthorized late night party on school grounds? Be serious.
I don't think police are regularly held accountable for shooting, but compared to twenty years ago they are held much more accountable through phone camera's. The police have been here for the last ten years, they understand very well the consequences of a viral video of a fight gone bad which is why you will see them going after peoples phone's when they're trying to arrest people.
Is the curfew law not enforced? http://cincinnati-oh.elaws.us/code/coor\_titleix\_ch911\_sec911-27#:\~:text=It%20shall%20be%20unlawful%20for,a.m.%20of%20the%20following%20day.
Surely many of these kids were under 18?
Violating curfew is a citation, one that the juvenile court doesn’t follow through on anyway and they know it. It’s pulling teeth to get parental contact information and hooking them up to go to 2020 is a braindead solution when the beat has 3 cops and there’s 30 kids. (RIP to pending calls because one of those juvenile arrests will take 3 hours of your time).
As for trespassing, in practice they do need to be notified to leave first by a complaining party. But again, there’s 30 kids and 3 beat cops. Can’t exactly arrest them all and god help you when the one you pick to arrest fights you and you’re now under review and potentially on the news for use of force on a child for a misdemeanor arrest.
Can you explain a little bit more about why a juvenile arrest would take three hours and how that compares to a typical arrest? Is it transport time, paperwork, combination, something else? Just curious, never heard that before.
I wasn't suggesting arresting them, it should be enough leverage to make everyone go home.
I am not mad at some kids getting together, but once you trip the noise complaint trigger and the cops show up, there are consequences.
Keep you shenanigans on the down low and you don't get busted. And then, maybe, hopefully, no one gets shot.
We don't call the cops in my neighborhood unless someone is be physically assaulted. The cops are too trigger happy.
Short of arresting you can’t make them go home. You can cut them a citation or try to get ahold of their parents (the parents won’t care), but neither of those things will make them disperse.
If it’s actually out of hand, we disperse it via arrests, and I explained how that goes in another comment (it’s a shit show). These kids are well aware the worst we can do is take them to 2020. Juvi court doesn’t hold them accountable for auto thefts, they surely don’t care about curfew or trespassing.
Buddy if we were actually ‘trigger happy’ the kids probably would leave when we show up. ‘MaYbE, hOpFuLlY.’ A dozen calls a day for years and weird but, I’ve never seen anyone shot (by the police).
Also stop acting like Northside is hard. I patrol there on a semi-frequent basis and it’s a massive source of Karen calls for loud cars among the usual activity. Making an arrest in Northside, they’re more likely to cry than fight you.
>The Department of Safety and Cincinnati Human Relations Commission shall devise and institute a procedure to monitor and evaluate the effectiveness and desirability of the juvenile curfew, and prepare a detailed report for annual submissions to city council.
My guess is that within a few years after passage in 1994 they decided it was no longer effective and/or desirable, particularly after the Timothy Thomas incident in 2001.
law is as follows
[https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-2911.21](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-2911.21)
(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:
(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
I'm not familiar with the situation, but I can already see one pretty glaring problem: it sounds like there's somehow an expectation for 2-4 cops to somehow disperse and manage a crowd of over 30 people and get everyone to return to their homes safely and without incident. Meanwhile, the same people with that expectation would be blowing up the media and reddit screaming about fascism and police state when the police either brought out enough force to shut the party down, or their intervention triggered a situation that put them and the entire crowd in danger.
Yeah, the police need to actually do their job and put an end to these parties because everyone knows they don't end themselves until someone is hurt or killed. But at the same time, the police won't do anything as long as they know that the moment something goes wrong, it's not only their lives on the line that night, but their careers and freedom on the line when they actually do their jobs and something goes wrong.
And I'm not even a fan of the police. I've been fucked over more than my fair share and put in front of a judge for having the audacity to not let myself get shot to death by some psycho. Even though I despise them and don't want anything to do with their bullshit, I can still recognize the lose/lose situation they're in when they have to deal with any kind of situation like this one. We just don't have a good solution to the problem that doesn't involve someone getting thrown under the bus at the end of the night.
Spot on. I think what irritated me so much about her comment was how similar it sounds to the classic onion headline, “No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens”
It’s not rocket science (or in your case I guess, science fiction). Defunding and demilitarizing local police and reallocating those misspent resources on social programs that are proven to prevent criminal behavior.
So there were zero city ordinances about curfew being broken? I find that truly hard to believe.
Theetge and the Mayor are both the heads of the crime snake in the city that need to be cut off.
They choose to have lenient policies across the board on crime because the moment you start being tough, there goes all the votes.
And for the jackasses about to justify this city’s inability to stop these “harmless” incidents “bEcaUse ViOlenT CryM is DoWn!”, I live within two blocks of District one, I challenge you to come down here to the West End and hang out on a Friday-Saturday night this Summer and listen to all the shootings, help us clean up all the car windows being smashed and the glass strewn about, help us stop the drug deals going on around the clock (yes within D1’s shadow- they do not care), help us clean the vandalism the youth are doing in the neighborhoods. Will you guys come handle the fall out of these pathetic policies? Or is it easier to justify these actions and stay cozy in your bubble of safety?
These petty crimes manifest to worse and worse crimes and then “whoops someones dead.”, “whoops some guy’s eye got kicked out by a mob group of teens”, “whoops theres four Kias all with the ignition tampered with and windows smashed out parked next to each other.”
This is what happens when the mayor and the city manager implement the Portland model where crime rates are reduced by ordering the police to reduce arrests. Crimes still occur but the prosecutor can't do anything.
A few days prior, there was an incident where a bunch of cars in that area were broken into and rifled through and it was discovered that it was a couple of teenagers who were breaking into cars looking for guns. With that having happened only days prior, it just feels like gross negligence for something like this to end up happening.
When I lived in Clifton cops showed up to parties all the time due to noise complaints and we had to disperse. Not sure how this is any different. Also, why are kids partying at the school grounds after graduation? That should be done at a private residence.
Withrow has that park area right by the road. I don’t know if it’s actually part of the school or not. But it looks/functions as a public park, I see it used frequently by groups of people that don’t look school aged. Based on what other people were saying I think that’s where the party was
It was behind Withrow by the baseball fields.
Yes that’s where that park is
You probably have two parents, a backyard and something to lose if you get arrested.
Exactly, you get what you vote for. Police don’t want to make a big deal out of it and get trashed as racist or escalate something that is nothing. But then this is the flip side. But more importantly, kids should be able to hang without shooting each other so yea, who knows what the answer is
> Police don’t want to make a big deal out of it and get trashed as racist or escalate something that is nothing. Exactly. The videos that would have ended up on social media would have shown a bunch of black teens hanging out as CPD stormed in and arrested them. Can you imagine how mad this subreddit would be over something like that? So obviously CPD just ignores calls like this. Theetge is putting it about as PC as she can. 15 years ago every one of these kids would have been arrested for a curfew violation. Now CPD won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. And the result is kids end up dead.
I think the second part of this is the main point. I mean, how many times has a gathering like this happened without anybody getting shot? Probably hundreds. And even dispersing everybody doesn’t mean they just aren’t going to regroup somewhere else and do the exact same thing. This actually seems like one of those things there isn’t much you can do to fix, as much as it might be nice to
Uh maybe not making guns so accessible, wild thought I know
Serious question: what is CPD supposed to do about that? The laws allowing wide access to guns is way above their heads.
Oh no I agree with you here, thats not on them. Just couldn't read "who knows what the answer is" without saying something lol
And they'll keep voting 'to protect their God given rights' while asking why nothing changes
I'm not saying you're wrong, but what do you think is the likelihood that kid legally acquired the gun?
Well, zero, because you have to be 21 to own a handgun, but that wasn’t their point.
The comment "don't make guns so accessible" makes it seem like we can just turn off a switch. There are so many guns out there, many of them not legal or trackable. Making it harder to legally acquire a gun will not clear up anything about illegal weapons or the plethora of them already out there
That genie is never going back in the bottle. If teen party disruption is too bad of optics for the police and city, what do you think gun removal from everyone would be? It's simply no longer an option no matter how bad some people want it.
I said gun accessibility, you’re arguing against something nobody said
Agree
[удалено]
That's the first I heard about the principal giving permission. Yikes.
There are a few differences but I think the main difference is that you’re less likely to get ganged up on and shot at by a group of college students at a house party. You might have a drunk or two resist but most students will disperse and move on to the next spot. The level of tension and potential for the need to use force is different.
It's been 25 years for me but most times cops would show up bitch at us tell us to turn it down and if they had to come back it was our asses.
There was a post the other day about this horrible tragedy with people in the comments saying to let the kids be kids and party and don’t be a snitch and cops shouldn’t be harassing them after they just graduated etc etc etc. Then you get posts like this saying the 6 cops that District 2 has on duty for all 25+ sq miles at night should go against 30+ kids and start hooking them for curfew for example. Then people say the cops are trampling on their rights if they do such a thing. Then if the cops showed up and arrested a few of them and tried to disperse the crowd people would shit on that and tell people to leave them alone and stop calling the police to end a party because “you never got invited to one when you where in school”. (Actual comments I read on the last one) There is no winning in the public’s eye here for anyone. People say “arrest them for curfew!” Ok, let’s break that down… half a dozen cops at best… let just assume for the sake of the conversation they grab 6 juveniles and hook them. What does that crowd do? The Officers are now in the care of the children they put cuffs on. So now you’re out one cop. The 5 left get another, down to 4… but we still have a crowd of 30+ right? You’ll say it needs to be done, while others will say “those pigs got nothing better to do than to shut down a party in celebration of completing high school?!” No one cares until someone loses their life. Then they’ll forget about it next weekend and we will repeat.
Well said
This exactly. Everyone wants less police involvement and to defund the police etc but then shit like this happens. There was no way the cops could have won in this situation. People would be mad if they broke the party up “This party wouldn’t have been broken up if it were white kids!!” And now they are mad they didn’t. I feel terrible for the child that died’s family. And I also would never want to be a cop.
In my case I never said they should have busted anyone. But for the chief to stand there and basically lie that her hands are tied is bullshit. You and I can easily ask “well what should those 6 cops do when they have bigger fish to fry” but it’s leadership’s job to provide that solution. They should have experience at this sort of thing…they should have discussed best practices and tactics years ago when it became clear that large groups of kids were a problem. This is something that every large city has to address regularly. I’m not focusing on this event so much as the fact that events like this KEEP HAPPENING, and leadership just shrugs and makes speeches.
Bigger fish… In hindsight it’s easy to say this party that turned into a shooting would be the top of the list but if the city was perfect and had shut this down (again, a lot of people bitching about how it shouldn’t be shut down and your picking on kids who have done nothing wrong and just celebrating) There are pending calls for assaults, domestic violence, stolen car etc… people then complain it took hours and hours to get a response because “those pigs are harassing kids who simply want to celebrate a great achievement”. So the cops try an be cool and understanding and see no violence or illegal activities outside of possible curfews and let it go… should we assume all groups of young adults are going to end badly? Isn’t that prejudice? I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone’s points here… I’m simply saying there is ZERO winning because it’s everyone’s fault but the parents and or courts that don’t do a fucking thing to these kids that commit crimes.
Cops can arrest the kids and then the courts will dismiss the case and they are back out doing the same shit. IMO controlling the teens starts at home, then the community they reside in. However generation after generation on single parent homes and failing neighborhoods chickens have come home to roost.
> They found "no violations" and left. What would you have them do?
Potentially: curfew, noise, being on school grounds after hours... Call the parents to come get them, make them disperse
People: Don't over police at risk neighborhoods. Also People: Police at risk neighborhoods. Who would want to be a cop?
Huge difference between handling a call-in and finding something to break up, and driving around to find problems. Also since when is Hyde Park an at-risk neighborhood
Happy Cake Day!!!
It’s a failure of CPD leadership to not have established acceptable rules of engagement, but they too fearful of those on oversight committee. Until the do this, will continue to lose experienced officers & struggle to attract recruits.
Half the crime issues lately are kids with no parental oversight. No one wants to deal with a bunch of dumb teens raised on social media.
We should have robust educational and recreational programs available for our community’s children. Unfortunately, kids increasingly have fewer and fewer options and outlets available to them in part because we choose to overwhelmingly invest in policing ($166,033,390 or 39% of the general fund). Comparatively, recreation and community and economic development gets ~$21m. We’re also talking about a time where schools, which are still unconstitutionally funded in this state, are being stripped of funding and are forced to cut more and more programs.
So citations they can just ball up and throw on the ground? Productive. Good luck getting them to even give you their parents number for the slim chance they’ll pick up and care. They won’t give you a number so you put them in cuffs to bring them to 2020? Now they’re fighting you and you’re on the news for using force on a child for a minor misdemeanor arrest. Oh and there are still 29 kids out here.
I feel like this is making a mountain out of a molehill. Police can ask people to leave an area if they're causing a disruption without any major issues. "You don't have to go home but you can't stay here" or what have you can't be done?
As one of those police who have asked people to leave for causing a disruption, it does cause major issues when they’re juveniles. If it is an out of hand party, we do break it up. Coerce, yell, say please, threaten, they will not leave on notification. You will have to arrest a couple before they start to disperse. The ones you arrest will almost always resist with violence. Tensions will be high, fights break out with each other too, so you’ll have to prioritize who you arrest based on seriousness because there’s 3 of you and 30-60 of them. Kids will run in the street, many will refuse to leave and since now you have 4 assault arrests from the fights you can’t reasonably arrest them too. I’ve done it before and I’m sure another is coming up soon. It’s a shit show 100% of the time and the party goes on while calls stack up.
Damn. Sorry to hear that. I was wrong in assuming it was easy. Back in high school when we threw parties out in parks, if the police showed up, we all just scattered once they gave us a warning. Sorry for presuming.
Because you and I had parents that would punish us if the police brought us home. These kids in the city today are on their own. They frustrate me, but I pity them. Adulthood will not be easy for them.
Assuming they live to reach it. I fear many pf these kids will be victims of violence. No limits and no monitoring seldom leads to positive outcomes.
Well good thing a teen died, otherwise a few grown adults would have to drop the donuts and get their hands dirty. I was at many large parties that got disbanded by police, just police showing up alone cleared everyone out. This is Withrow not Compton.
Police never showed up at your dungeons and dragons party to break it up lol
The police were part of the campaign ugh!
Got it. It's a hard job. Can get difficult. You're outnumbered. You can't just tell them they're trespassing and they need to leave. You can't find any other way to deal with it besides to arrest your way or of it. So a dead kid is better. All one way or the other in Cincy.
Do you have a creative alternate solution? Usually we don’t arrest because it’s not out of hand, we just hang out there and violence doesn’t occur. Problems arise when we have to leave for other calls. Exactly what happened at Withrow. You think we want these kids to die? We’re the ones who try to stop the hemorrhaging before the ambulance gets there. Have you ever applied a tourniquet to a child? No? Just a useless critic with nothing constructive to offer.
Did anyone tell them they were trespassing and send them home? Did anyone look at the situation and see #1 illegal behavior (trespassing, curfew), #2 high probability that unsupervised kids hanging out that late are gonna beef and when they beef, that means shootings because kids don't throw hands anymore. Or did everyone just shrug and take the easy way out as usual? Sit there looking at them until another call for service came in and then get all shocked when the outcome was predictable. Someone called because they saw a problem. Ya'll got there, saw no problem, split, and a kid died, but it's not on CPD? Go ahead and come for me. Act like I'm the problem because I know CPD supervisors are telling you guys not to arrest people almost no matter what. Tell me it's my fault. Ask me for creative solutions. I got one. Get all hands on deck including the chief and those supervisors who are trying to skew the stats to make things look better than they actually are. And yes, I have put a tourniquet on a child, so take your smug self-righteousness and jam it.
So what do you do? Why are you paid? You just sit in your car and complain?
[удалено]
Ok, moose knuckle.
You are assuming the parents care….
Call the parents lol
It’s amazing how many people don’t understand the meaning of “potentially” 🤦♂️
Violate them rights so we can bitch about it tomorrow? Duh.
Juveniles don’t have rights
Lmao ok. Your parents tell you that? I won’t ruin it for them.
I think the fact that they were on school grounds in early morning hours would be a violation in and of itself. I don’t know about Withrow, but many schools prohibit non-school activities after hours. The greater point being, if we know that large groups of kids together after midnight generally results in crime, then maybe we should do something other than throw up our hands and say “we have no tools to deal with this”.
We legitimately don’t have tools to deal with this. We’ll stay in the parking lot until the inevitable DV call comes out across the beat, which is when the shooter takes his chance (unless it was at one of the other 4 get togethers we also don’t have the resources to be security for).
Then you have the peanut gallery yelling about police overstepping.
Nobody yells about high school parties being broken up as overstepping, come on.
Probably gonna get downvoted for this, but I’m one of the people who would be seen as criticizing cops for overstepping. But in this situation, I would not (as long as they didn’t use violence or arrest people unnecessarily). Like just dispersing them or calling parents I’d have been totally fine with and that’s what they should’ve done. I don’t want cops to do nothing, I just don’t want them to abuse their power. This is a big part of why the system needs to be overhauled. Because they don’t do their jobs when they should, and then they use violence or abuse power when they should t do anything. It’s so bizarre.
The problem is that dispersing a large group of kids, at least one of whom was armed, carries with it a good possibility of some bad result. The problem is not kids partying, even if after midnight and even if on public property. It's the moron who brought the gun. When we find out who the shooter is, its likely he or she will have had multiple criminal or juvenile contacts already and will have experienced no real consequences from those contacts.
There were reports of people shooting at each other, not one kid just shooting everyone up. Not sure how doing nothing and a teen dying is seen as the best end result.
I don't live in a world where I think all cops are great and should he immune to accountability. I think they should be set to a high standard given the amount of power they have. like any industry filled with human beings, some are great and some have no business there. The rest are regular folk just trying to do what they think is right. But in many cases people seem to just view the result of something and then decide what should have been done. That's a luxury these officers don't have. It's certainly not an easy situation. But sometimes it doesn't matter what they do. People will go nuts about them regardless.
There is probably a lot of in between there that we are not going to see. I get a bad feeling about them, but I only see the bad on media, so I don't know any different.
Not really sure you can just blanket assume a bunch of kids hanging out at night means someone’s going to get shot or a serious crime will happen. If CPD has the resources to deal with curfew violations or trespassing on school property then great, but it’s a huge leap to lay a shooting at their feet because they didn’t prioritize a situation that wasn’t presenting any major risk.
Teachers and administrators are able to get students to disperse and leave school grounds when there aren’t after school activities but police cry that they can’t do it.
Does it say they were actually on school grounds?
100% on school grounds then 3:30am dude got shot and died.
I and many families in the area take our toddlers to Hyde Park elementary’s playground after school hours all the time. This is something that happens in many elementary schools and this would ban this as well. You can’t selectively ban activities.
Yes you absolutely can. Wtf
If they ban non school activities after hours you wouldn’t be able too
[удалено]
Can you cite a law or CPS policy to that effect?
Police work instead of hiding in their cars to avoid police work.
Bum ass parents. Let my mom catch me out past 10 on a school night or 11 on the weekend back in high school. My ass would have been cooked
The worst part is. The mom said in the interview ‘where were the police’ like????? What. Where the fuck were you your child was out at 3am partying
Bro my mom took that shit so serious that the night before I left for basic training I tried to stay out past my curfew and she pulled up to the party I was at (Norwood pool at 12am) and made me get in the car
No win situation. Break it up many people complain they are profiling young AA people who were doing nothing wrong. Just heavy-handed racist cops. Someone gets shot. wtf, do your job CPD!
yep bunch of janky parents.
Teenagers getting together after hours is common all over the city. That in and of itself is not solvable by the police department for two reasons. First and foremost, rolling with ~8 officers on night shift for an entire district means if we start making curfew arrests, no one will be available for call response. Get togethers of 20+ aren’t uncommon, so as long as they keep it calm and aren’t bothering the neighborhood, we’ll remind them to keep it quiet and let them be. We can’t allocate all our night resources to mass arrests for simple curfew violations, as if the resulting uses of force from groups fighting back wouldn’t enrage the public to boot. Secondly, I’ll remind you that juvenile court doesn’t apply consequences to vehicle theft or assault, let alone giving a parent consequences for allowing curfew violations. It’s simply not a priority to the officials we all elected. If you really care, bring it to their attention too.
I reached out to the juvenile court system after I lost an eye to some teenagers with violent records and was disappointed in the response. In subsequent interviews the judges have made it clear that the only solution they're willing to pursue is a continuation of the sentencing policies that have exacerbated this mess. I think voting them out might be the only resolution.
We have seen a moderate decrease in crime overall since the wild west that was the summer of 2020. However we've simultaneously seen a massive increasing juvenile crime and I think the stats likely wildly underestimate just how bad it is do to many records being sealed, charges never being filed, etc. In the next ~5 years I suspect we're going to see a massive increase in crime as the young criminals graduate to adulthood believing there are no repercussions for bad behavior.
That’s exactly what people thought 25-30 years ago and it didn’t materialize. “Super-predators”.
There's been a noticeable change in sentencing followed by a noticeable increase in juvenile crime. It's fair to wonder if we've overcorrected and ponder the implications of that. There are little to no consequences for kids breaking into vehicles and now they do so with near total immunity, often to arm themselves and further endanger one another I don't know. I think it's a bit lazy to reference a 50 year old trope in reference to legitimate concerns.
Nobody wants violence to just be accepted as a societal norm. But the solutions to it have to come from earlier interventions. Expecting the cops to just be able to swoop in at the last second before it happens and arrest people, and now there's no violence problem anymore, is just unrealistic. I see your point that it was public property and that there's an observed correlation between violence and large groups of teenagers after midnight. Maybe the cops should have broken it up on that basis. But let's not make a logical mistake and assume that this tragedy wouldn't have happened anyway at a different time. As long as we live in a free society, there will always be opportunities for violence. We need more community level, economic support to make an impact on this problem. Kids (and as in this case, young adults) who want to shoot each other will find a way. We need to find ways to make them not want to shoot each other.
People who do try to make a difference don't get supported. I have a friend who has been teaching martial arts in one of the rec centers for 30+ years. She would have a hundred or more kids in her program. She charged barely enough to cover expenses and bought all of their equipment out of her own funds. She accompanied them to tournaments and events (that she often paid for) and personally mentored many of them over the years. She taught them manners, focus, and goal-setting skills. A lot of her kids went on to become community leaders - lawyers, doctors, executives. One is on city council. But her program is the first one that gets cast aside by CRC. She went from 4 hours a week to 1. Now, they're moving her out of the gym for adult pickleball. Kids in that neighborhood have the opportunity to learn discipline and self-esteem from a loving, dedicated adult and no one cares enough to let it happen.
So, here’s the thing. Whatever this group/generation we are looking at has been completely abandoned by any adult or mentor. Sort of like the Lost Boys from Neverland. I’ve been at the funerals of these kids and they all are dressed head to toe in adidas gear, smoking weed, packing heat, heads on a swivel. It’s a lost generation.
I agree with this take. While everyone argues the policing aspect and what they could’ve done differently, what about turning accountability to the parents of the kids? Yeah, kids are going to do what they want and be sneaky under your nose but at some point, home life/guidance HAS to change for the better.
the parents have long not loved nor wanted that kid... as a former inner city primary school teacher... these people are having kids that are seen as nothing but property and burdens. And tbh, its been happening since the 90s.
Cycles of teen pregnancy and generational poverty are so hard to break. That's why access to contraceptives and abortion to manage family planning, as well as labor rights from work/life balance to benefits to livable wages are important. To make sure parents have the resources to properly be parents.
And DADS who stick around.
If a parent, of either gender, doesnt have the means or the wisdom to raise a child, it will need the community to help raise it and as you can see by the comments-- the easiest way out is to incarcerate them, IGNORE THEM MORE. Some of these teens are already parents themselves....
It’s sad. Bc they are KIDS missing out on what it is to be a kid. Maybe they should look into local gangs like the Adidas one.
CPD is tired of parenting shitty kids. I dont blame them.
What do you want done? There is no magic cure. There is not one thing that will change this. People will try to point fingers, but that is more about letting people off the hook. No one is blameless, but everyone’s share of the blame is not the same. Most importantly, there are NOT certain groups/classes of people to blame, but people will certainly try to do that.
Actually locking up children who break the law would be a good start. They continue to let these idiots off with a slap on the wrist and they continue to commit worse and worse crimes. Being a minor should not mean you're allowed to do whatever you want with no consequences.
Agreed. Parents should also be held accountable, as in what they did in Michigan.
Locking up children is not a proactive solution. Ensuring they go through required social programs that help them develop and mature into a young adult is definitely needed.
That's called parenting.
Many children are born in a cyclically harmful environment. If their parents aren't involved/mature and they live in a harsh environment then how are they going to confront their own shortcomings and develop themselves without help. Edit: I swear this sub is always braindead about understanding how the world works. Feel free to continue to downvote me because you think that everyone has two college graduate parents who are involved in your life. Like how hard of a concept is it to understand. Punishing children and teens for not knowing any better or not having a support system and expecting them to also grow up and be good parents and not have children who also then dont knownany better...do you have any capability of critical thinking?
What part of childhood do you miss that shooting people with guns is wrong? If you’re 18 and don’t know that a party with guns is a bad idea then that’s on you alone. Darwinism at its finest.
Do you think they are just shooting each other for shits and giggles? People grow up in broken households, in broken families, and in situations where violence, drugs, gangbanging are commonplace. If you grow up and having family who is in and out of prison and know many people who have been shot, are you not going to be desensitized to the idea of death, violence, and crime? Clearly this was some sort of escalated scenario between people who arent living a clean life Does the loss of life and quality of life not matter for the less fortunate? Should these young impressionable people not be given the chance to disassociate from the toxic life they grew up in and get the support they deserve? Everything in your comment screams "mommy and daddy still pay my car insurance"
People inherently know the difference between right and wrong. I don’t care how broken your home is - you know it’s wrong to murder someone at a high school graduation party over an argument. Hope these dumb kids wake up but they won’t. Most will be dead or in jail. Car insurance jab is weird but I guess that sounded cool in your head.
Depends on intent and degree of the murder. I agree that cold blooded intended murder at a young age is difficult to rehabilitate. An immature idiot young adult who doesn't understand mortality and recklessly fired a weapon at someone else firing a weapon? If there is remorse, guilt, etc then yes there is still a possibility for rehabilitation. Also reports were that guns were being fired at each other. And yes, if you grow up where conflict is solved with a gun then there isn't some black and white sense of mortality at play. Most of you glorify this via old western movies.
tell that horseshit to the victims of gun violence
The way the world works, at least in a civilized society, is that laws are made and our elected authorities are expected to enforce the laws. This thread is about the comments made by the police chief and how they say they can't do anything. The mayor and city manager have ordered the police to not do anything so that the crime statistics will be reduced. As far as children are concerned, the parents in a civilized society are responsible for their health and well-being, as well as learning and respecting the law. We are in a 60-year decline in civilization because a growing number of citizens do not share any responsibility for their kids nor do they respect the law.
The fact that you think that low crime rates over time is from "ordering police not to do anything", says a lot about your distorted view of the world. Do you think all the victims of violence are just disappearing and also not counted? Also consider that not everyone has parents who are credentialed to be a parent, that are together, that are alive, that are involved
when are children taught the laws? .... when do you want to start locking them up? 4th grade, when they steal their first candy bar? maybe 7th grade when they are caught smoking behind the Kroger?... we all know this comes from poor parenting and jail is not a replacement for parenting. We really need to do something soon, because more and more kids are being dragged up, instead of raised up.
Adults don't get thrown in jail for stealing a candy bar or smoking behind kroger. They do go to jail when they break into cars and get caught with illegal guns though, but for some reason if you are 17 or younger you get nothing but a slap on the wrist for it. If you commit an adult crime you should go to jail no matter what your age is.
so you want children, to be charged as an adult... even tho they arent adults. The police did not get out and search for guns. Do you really think putting a kid in an adult jail is going to turn them into a good adult? really?
I don't know, probably enforcing laws already in place would be a good start.
One thing that will change it is gun control but we’re not allowed to do that
That alone will not change this. It may help, marginally, but is not a singular fix.
Every statistic shows the US would have less gun violence if it weren’t so easy to get guns.
Most guns used during crimes have been stolen. Crimes can't be committed by people in jail.
And they steal them because gun owners leave them unattended in their cars because they refuse to follow safe storage practices
Stolen from… legal gun owners!
I'm probably not the only one who sees this as 'damned if you do; damned if you don't' Cops break up the party, they're A'holes, maybe even racist because they're doing at Withrow and there's loads of other house parties going on in Hyde Park and Clifton. And if they don't respond, then this happens.
Withrow \*is\* in the boundaries of Hyde Park but I see your point.
Difference is "house parties". This was not a house party. This was a party that was being held on private property without permission. It's called trespassing.
did the property owner call the police to complain about the trespassing?
I get it, but maybe we have to stop seeing this as a black/white or rich/poor issue. We have plenty of statistics that show that Cincinnati kids/young adults are at a much higher risk to become victims of/ participants in violence after midnight. Either we act on this data or we don’t. I understand race is a hot button issue, but at some point we have to ‘trust the science’ as the saying goes. The Hyde park and Lakota kids aren’t shooting each other…it’s really a straw man argument.
After midnight is when shit goes down. Even for adults. In Clermont County's Miami Townships, a lot of the cop job is busting high school parties. But then again, what else is going on? That and the cops can play cowboys and give the high schoolers lectures and a neat experience with the court system. In Cincinnati, these after hour parties are commonplace for kids and adults and they're happening all over the place.
I find it very hard to believe anyone is allowed on Withrow's grounds that late. I also completely believe CPD continues to be completely useless.
The Chief has taken the position to lower the amount of patrol officers in CPD. Essentially, each district is staffed only with enough officers to handle radio runs. They are not staffed for any proactive policing and any critical incidents or runs that require a large response such as this, cause havoc and the district to go code 0. The current Chief and city administration is ok with a much slower and inadequate police response because they have different priorities. Complaining about the police does nothing because they can’t create more officers out of thin air. In this case District 2 simply does not have the man power to deal with teenagers that are only causing quality of life problems. Unfortunately, this backfired and a life was lost. Let’s hope that city administration takes notice.
The cops are turning a blind eye because these party gatherings that turn violent are a symptom of a much greater problem and tepid half measures that most of the public supports are not effective. The risk/reward is heavily weighed towards things going south and losing your job versus doing things right and not getting any reward. Cops aren't parents. If people seriously want to shut these parties down using the cops then they need to understand what the consequences of that will be.
Police aren’t regularly held accountable for shooting people but you’re arguing that they risk losing their jobs over breaking up an unauthorized late night party on school grounds? Be serious.
I don't think police are regularly held accountable for shooting, but compared to twenty years ago they are held much more accountable through phone camera's. The police have been here for the last ten years, they understand very well the consequences of a viral video of a fight gone bad which is why you will see them going after peoples phone's when they're trying to arrest people.
They can shut down the city and arrest people during protests but they cant shut down a party?
With the amount of free flowing guns in this country, this shit is bound to continue to happen.
ban kids, not guns.
Is the curfew law not enforced? http://cincinnati-oh.elaws.us/code/coor\_titleix\_ch911\_sec911-27#:\~:text=It%20shall%20be%20unlawful%20for,a.m.%20of%20the%20following%20day. Surely many of these kids were under 18?
Violating curfew is a citation, one that the juvenile court doesn’t follow through on anyway and they know it. It’s pulling teeth to get parental contact information and hooking them up to go to 2020 is a braindead solution when the beat has 3 cops and there’s 30 kids. (RIP to pending calls because one of those juvenile arrests will take 3 hours of your time). As for trespassing, in practice they do need to be notified to leave first by a complaining party. But again, there’s 30 kids and 3 beat cops. Can’t exactly arrest them all and god help you when the one you pick to arrest fights you and you’re now under review and potentially on the news for use of force on a child for a misdemeanor arrest.
Can you explain a little bit more about why a juvenile arrest would take three hours and how that compares to a typical arrest? Is it transport time, paperwork, combination, something else? Just curious, never heard that before.
[удалено]
Thanks for your reply!
I wasn't suggesting arresting them, it should be enough leverage to make everyone go home. I am not mad at some kids getting together, but once you trip the noise complaint trigger and the cops show up, there are consequences. Keep you shenanigans on the down low and you don't get busted. And then, maybe, hopefully, no one gets shot. We don't call the cops in my neighborhood unless someone is be physically assaulted. The cops are too trigger happy.
Short of arresting you can’t make them go home. You can cut them a citation or try to get ahold of their parents (the parents won’t care), but neither of those things will make them disperse. If it’s actually out of hand, we disperse it via arrests, and I explained how that goes in another comment (it’s a shit show). These kids are well aware the worst we can do is take them to 2020. Juvi court doesn’t hold them accountable for auto thefts, they surely don’t care about curfew or trespassing. Buddy if we were actually ‘trigger happy’ the kids probably would leave when we show up. ‘MaYbE, hOpFuLlY.’ A dozen calls a day for years and weird but, I’ve never seen anyone shot (by the police). Also stop acting like Northside is hard. I patrol there on a semi-frequent basis and it’s a massive source of Karen calls for loud cars among the usual activity. Making an arrest in Northside, they’re more likely to cry than fight you.
>The Department of Safety and Cincinnati Human Relations Commission shall devise and institute a procedure to monitor and evaluate the effectiveness and desirability of the juvenile curfew, and prepare a detailed report for annual submissions to city council. My guess is that within a few years after passage in 1994 they decided it was no longer effective and/or desirable, particularly after the Timothy Thomas incident in 2001.
[удалено]
Just being there isn't a trespass violation, being there after you have been asked to leave it. At least as I understand it.
law is as follows [https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-2911.21](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-2911.21) (A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: (1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
The parents??? Isn’t there a curfew? We need to enact something or things will get worse
Those kids told the police they would leave at 1:30a, a shift change happened, and the officer supposed to follow up with them failed to do so.
I'm not familiar with the situation, but I can already see one pretty glaring problem: it sounds like there's somehow an expectation for 2-4 cops to somehow disperse and manage a crowd of over 30 people and get everyone to return to their homes safely and without incident. Meanwhile, the same people with that expectation would be blowing up the media and reddit screaming about fascism and police state when the police either brought out enough force to shut the party down, or their intervention triggered a situation that put them and the entire crowd in danger. Yeah, the police need to actually do their job and put an end to these parties because everyone knows they don't end themselves until someone is hurt or killed. But at the same time, the police won't do anything as long as they know that the moment something goes wrong, it's not only their lives on the line that night, but their careers and freedom on the line when they actually do their jobs and something goes wrong. And I'm not even a fan of the police. I've been fucked over more than my fair share and put in front of a judge for having the audacity to not let myself get shot to death by some psycho. Even though I despise them and don't want anything to do with their bullshit, I can still recognize the lose/lose situation they're in when they have to deal with any kind of situation like this one. We just don't have a good solution to the problem that doesn't involve someone getting thrown under the bus at the end of the night.
Honestly. Hamilton county and CPD has become pathetic.
Some people shouldn't have kids.
The CPD has tried nothing and they are all out of ideas.
Spot on. I think what irritated me so much about her comment was how similar it sounds to the classic onion headline, “No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens”
Stop voting in city leaders who strip the police of their ability to police.
Police are useless. They sit and wait to react to crime and prevent nothing.
As opposed to what? Deciding in advance what someone is going to do and arresting them for it?
It’s not rocket science (or in your case I guess, science fiction). Defunding and demilitarizing local police and reallocating those misspent resources on social programs that are proven to prevent criminal behavior.
So there were zero city ordinances about curfew being broken? I find that truly hard to believe. Theetge and the Mayor are both the heads of the crime snake in the city that need to be cut off. They choose to have lenient policies across the board on crime because the moment you start being tough, there goes all the votes. And for the jackasses about to justify this city’s inability to stop these “harmless” incidents “bEcaUse ViOlenT CryM is DoWn!”, I live within two blocks of District one, I challenge you to come down here to the West End and hang out on a Friday-Saturday night this Summer and listen to all the shootings, help us clean up all the car windows being smashed and the glass strewn about, help us stop the drug deals going on around the clock (yes within D1’s shadow- they do not care), help us clean the vandalism the youth are doing in the neighborhoods. Will you guys come handle the fall out of these pathetic policies? Or is it easier to justify these actions and stay cozy in your bubble of safety? These petty crimes manifest to worse and worse crimes and then “whoops someones dead.”, “whoops some guy’s eye got kicked out by a mob group of teens”, “whoops theres four Kias all with the ignition tampered with and windows smashed out parked next to each other.”
This is what happens when the mayor and the city manager implement the Portland model where crime rates are reduced by ordering the police to reduce arrests. Crimes still occur but the prosecutor can't do anything.
A few days prior, there was an incident where a bunch of cars in that area were broken into and rifled through and it was discovered that it was a couple of teenagers who were breaking into cars looking for guns. With that having happened only days prior, it just feels like gross negligence for something like this to end up happening.
Theetge? The fuck kind of name is Theetge? Where's she from, Sigma Draconis?