Everyone is, all the time, for every game.
Basically when they/their friends are enjoying something it's the latest and greatest thing that everyone is loving. As soon as they personally lose interest? Dead game, nobody gives a shit, why are you even still talking about it?
Like I've been playing Counter Strike for *20 years* and I cannot tell you how many people I've seen discover the game, be amazed at how huge the community is, then lose interest and be like "lol what who plays CS anymore dead game".
It's like this subs refusal to accept they do not represent the game in any meaningful way. 600k members total, 1% of that online most of the time, a fraction of that actually posting/commenting. Top comments usually get a couple hundred upvotes at best and the *top post of all time* is at about 90k, with the second less than half that.
I'm sure the devs keep on eye on us like they do elsewhere but to think we matter compared to their internal data and stats is hilariously narcissistic.
what gets is me is the people who can only formulate and hold opinions based on a collective. the playerbase definitely skews in the older demographics but they behave worse than teenagers.
Right? Dragonflight has had consistently high praise pretty much the entire expac. We haven’t really seen that since… MoP? We won’t even be calling it revisionist history when 10 years from now it’s high in the running in the best expansion discussion.
I love classic, and it’s hugely nostalgic for me. But let’s not pretend it’s the reason they can keep the lights on.
While I agree the team size should be bigger, the feedback on Dragonflight along with their good sub numbers make it seem pretty clear from an outsider POV that retail is carrying at the moment money wise. Saying classic is the best thing going for wow at the moment just doesnt seem to hold up.
Yeah they were very firm on the "classic servers aren't profitable blah blah" for a long ass time and now look at them. They are definitely mad at how wrong they were and now it feels like they want it to die so they can give us the old "We told you so"
Damn I knew a considerable portion of the classic community are a little delusional but thinking a company would forgo profits purely out of spite is some next level tinfoil hat shit.
Yeah, the people making the decisions have all the data available to them and are also subject to constraints from their leadership above them that we don’t understand.
It seems pretty reasonable that they tried to essentially skunkworks SoD and Hardcore as a way to prevent subscription churn from Wrath until they could get Cata out. Probably a passion project for a few of the devs that bit off more than they could chew.
It absolutely hit it out of the park phase 1, but even if it’s profitable they probably want to retain that profit rather than dumping the money back into something with a dubious business case. It clearly hasn’t had much staying power and we won’t really know unless we see a strong player resurgence at endgame. Plus the time it would take to scale that team would be prohibitive, without pulling resources off of retail (which they probably don’t want to do.)
What they should really be discussing internally is having fresh classic servers. Maybe even progression servers. If they can get that on an automated track and do a seasonal model, support could be relatively low. Just have a low server count, automate transfers onto era at the end of each season, and let it roll once every 12-18 months.
This is the most sensible and insightful comment on the WoW team from a business perspective I’ve ever seen. I work for a US tech start up firm, and we are also a subscription based model. Our team thinks exactly the same way and it seems like so many people don’t really get what Blizzard are doing with WoW Classic.
Thank you! It’s definitely arguable that Blizzard doesn’t have a solid strategy with respect to Classic right now, or that they don’t understand what the core classic player wants. Or stuff is in the pipeline for 15 months and we won’t see it until then.
But these arm chair executives with no experience always irk me with their takes. It’s like when people post on recruitinghell that companies “post fake positions so they can keep up a public perception of growth” instead of the much more reasonable take that shit gets outdated, or there aren’t good integrations between their talent management system and their website, or they lose track id what third party sites have posted on them.
More than likely Microsoft is just happy to rake in the profit they get from it and invest as little as possible back into the product.
They aren’t willing to put the amount of new money into the game that it would take to scale up a full classic team.
SoD was probably pitched as a passion project by the Classic team, and they underestimated the effort so now they are stuck managing both that and Cata poorly. SoD reeks of a moonshot that caught a little buzz. You can tell from the way all new systems and runes were implemented through existing assets which could be placed (such as a new golbin/gnome npc with dialogue), hacked together quest lines, and ability tuning/modification as opposed to truly new content.
I agree with you that they could take a risk and beef up the team, and we might get something really special. That’s gonna be a hard sell to business types that don’t understand their gamers though. I bet the higher ups are reasonably happy with the data they’re seeing internally and feel like they’re getting a nice profit out of classic, and don’t want to rock the boat and gamble their careers on it being a hit again.
what makes the most sense is probably one era server on life support and then seasonal reset servers or progression servers where people can play “fresh” classic, with the option to progress into TBC/Wrath.
I’m not even playing retail but can’t deny that’s the best thing going for them. It has a higher player base, DF has been critically acclaimed by the player base, and the hype for a trilogy expansion was just rolled out. Classic is NEVER getting huge focus again imo.
Most classic players are casuals raidlogging after initial hype, many of which still play retail. Classic also just had the effect of reminding so many why retail became its way through QoL stuff they complain about in classic. Dragonflight being solid helps a lot too.
>Classic also just had the effect of reminding so many why retail became its way through QoL stuff they complain about in classic.
Gotta be honest, at this point in classic, I don't see much difference to retail anymore.
It's just a less fleshed out version of retail with worse graphics and worse qol.
Classic is only popular when retail is waiting on content. The classic only base is teeny tiny, and even most of them don't play classic outside of new shit or new servers or w/e
I'm one of the classic only ppl, I came back from pservers in classic relaunch and for SOD (didn't play hardcore or seasonal classic) but always quit very quickly when I see how blizzard manages to fuck up every vanilla relaunch. They are just terrible in this, don't know what classic players want are way to slow to fix or patch things . Back to pservers it is for me
Anyone who thinks a seasonal game mode like SoD would be anywhere as successful as Retail is delusional lol, it's actually such an outrageous claim one would have to be willfully ignorant to make it.
I don't really think so. Classic was no direction, google it gameplay, and retail is here's what to do, have fun gameplay.
If you played tbc from being brand new it would take you an order of magnitude longer to catch up/gear up/understand the game than it does in retail. I had a buddy start last week after getting tired of SOD. He's doing keys now. After a week in tbc, you would be level 64 and still have absolutely no idea how the game works, stats, gear, etc.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Classic is fine, but retail is good and it really shows when people who don't or barely play try to talk about it, lol
The problem I had going back to DF after missing two raid cycles was that there was just too much stuff in the open world that had no meaning. I spent half a day doing quests for what I THOUGHT was the most recent item-catchup world event and then found out it was from the LAST patch cycle.
DF is awesome, but dropping in late expac is a lot of confusing open world bloat. M+ etc is solid though.
Seriously, there's SO MANY WEIRD OBJECTS on the world map, and the hub is littered with tons of quests where some are meaningless and others lead to huge rewards or questchains.
Retail is such an overwhelming experience joining this late.
Once you get past the initial content bloat, it's an incredible experience though, imo :)
I get that, but disagree about 'bloat'. Almost everything has meaning in retail these days. Some stuff that only gives gear won't for long, but almost all of the questlines also lead to cosmetics/pets/etc rewards on top of still giving current relevant crests used to upgrade current gear. DF is awesome because even last tier stuff stays relevant in multiple ways.
Fair. But the tbc comparison is there isn’t any indication of what to do/ where to go to catch up so you have to google it. As for DF it spoon feeds you decently well if you don’t ignore quests and pop ups
Retails player size is massive compared to classic. I think before classic (early 2019) they had 7million subs and now with 4 versions of classic there around 9 to 10million. If I was blizzard I know I'd keep working in retail as that's what's keeping the majority subbed
A million times this.
They can't further monetize classic players (well, they can and are for cata now).
If I was a scummy exec and my goal was to make as much money as possible
Why would I ever want company resources going to SoD/ classic over retail?
Ideally they would increase team size rather than struggle to spread their miniscule employees across a half-dozen different projects.
I mean damn, despite them continually pushing the idea that Classic is the "free addition" we get for paying for Retail, Classic alone has kept my sub since August 2019. That's 58 months of sub (Jesus) with not a single microtransaction from the almighty Retail.
You'd think me and the others like me would legitimize actually hiring people, but I guess not.
Yeah but you just laid out perfectly exactly why they *haven't* done any of that.
Despite the lack of support or consistency in the classic product they've still had your sub for 58 months.
Why change the status quo and hire more/ spend more on classic if they already have all these subs?
It is very unfortunate how much gaming in 2024 fucking sucks
I mean yeah you wouldn't. The fact that classic exists and is supported to the degree that it is supported, despite its limited playerbase speaks volumes. But andys gonna andy about muh evul corporate and how they're being milked despite still only playing a $15 sub.
According to this leak at GDC you’re very wrong. Classic vanilla release saw a doubling of WoW subscribers. Then if you track how terribly received BFA and Shadowlands you could assume that the 4m subscribers left as the graph peaks down during tbc and woltk is retail players taking a break; but that would be an assumption.
https://tagn.wordpress.com/2024/03/25/the-purloined-letter-wow-subscriber-numbers-leak-from-a-gdc-presentation/
Classic wow release happened 5 years ago man, at the time classic was popular. Now people played classic and SoD ain't it. 2 different events 2 very different set of numbers.
And sod still only has 135k raiders. I don't know how many raiders are on hc/era but I assume less so maybe 250k between all 3. If we look at the final data point on that graph it's 7.25million. So yeah I'll stick by my original statement that retail completely dwarfs classic in every way
I agree about the team size for classic, but Dragonflight has been an S tier expansion and a lot of people are really looking forward to the Panda Remix event this week. Retail has been killing it lately.
I enjoyed DF a fair amount compared to their last two expansions, but as a Resto Druid main I hated our Talent tree. I dislike having to choose between innervate or an interrupt.
There are certainly things to improve upon for DF, it's not perfect, but it's an incredibly good expansion and I don't think someone saying "classic is the best thing going for wow atm" is correct.
And I play pretty much all iterations of wow and enjoy them all as what they are uniquely
It could be the best thing going for them but it doesn't make the same money as retail. All the things that classic players hate about retail is what makes retail a cash cow.
Classic isn’t og or vanilla. Classic is just playing through the game again 20 years later. I see them stopping at legion though. But also, by that time we will be probably 2 more xpacs down the line.
I have to admit trying to come back to retail, has me longing for the security of solved content and slower pace of play from classic.
Trying to catch up on modern talents and play styles while dealing with a faster pace of play and more visual noise is just rough.
Friendly reminder covid happened in the year vanilla classic released so comparing sub numbers from any period to a very unique year in modern history where the majority of society was literallt trapped in their homes is extremely disingenuous.
Nobody tell him that the "classic team" are the same devs that have worked on retail for years but were assigned to classic era projects along the way.
Blizzard moves devs back and forth projects depending on the need.
This is me.
Zero interest in Cata as the first time around was meh for me. SoD P3 has already killed off half of our guild raiders and the ppl remaining are just raidlogging now.
Honestly I've been having more fun on retail lately since I haven't touched it since DF launch, yet all I do is farm some transmog and maybe do some LFR...
MoP remix looks interesting. I'll give it a try while waiting for SoD P4.
I'm busy as hell in Cata prepatch right now, but I'm seriously eyeballing retail at the moment. That panda remix is starting to make me wonder if retail is where I'm going to end up. Whatever happens happens,
How are you busy, what are you doing in prepatch? Genuinely curious, the only things worth time I’ve found are AV spam for wrathful set and weps. After that what’s the point. And even then the first cata zone on release will give you higher ilvl gear than wrathful.
We live in a weird time now where blizzard/activision is pumping out way too many different projects at once.
MWIII season updates seem to follow SOD phase releases. In addition to this you have Season 4 of D4 and 3 or 4 different types of WoW that you can all play. Feels a bit like overload.
I think its less about the volume of products and more that they've been doing their best to lose talent lately. For example I can't imagine how the mandatory in office hours decimated their lower paid staff (like QA).
Them doing lots of different projects is good though, I remember a problem they figured out in wod was that more cooks in the kitchen doesn't let you make the dish faster.... but now they're realizing it does allow you to make more dishes simultaneously.
Player bases are mostly fine for each version. You can even find a decent era guild to join at the moment. There aren't a ton but they're there.
The main problem is all these versions are splitting the development teams and stretching them incredibly thin. So we're barely getting half assed/ unfinished versions of everything now.
A lot of people don't seem to understand that MoP Remix isn't classic. It's retail class design in scaled Mists of Pandaria content, what does it have to do with Classic when most people who enjoy Classic won't be tempted by Retail gameplay.
> when most people who enjoy Classic won't be tempted by Retail gameplay.
I have my doubts about this comment. Maybe most /r/classicwow Redditors, but I don't think the playerbase at large is as dogmatic as you think. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a decent chunk of people not interested in Cata and not satisfied with SOD that would give MOP Remix a try. If I wasn't already content with playing Cata, I'd likely be giving MOP Remix a shot.
It's just a temporary mode that goes away in August. It's designed to fill in the gap of a dead retail season (noone genuinely cares about fated seasons) and to level some extra characters.
i think people are going into this thinking remix is way bigger than it is.
Its just a bad time right now between these three plus P3 has been sort of a stinker. If Phase 4 has some quality behind it people will come back. Have faith.
For me it’s hard to dust off a character and come back to it. I lose the connection to it or something
Even for Cata I just rolled a fresh warrior on a new server to level in pre patch
That's wild, I don't actively play them any more as I'm on a different server now, but I still level my original rogue and warrior from 2004 to the level cap each expansion.
Theres so many memories locked into those characters, so many lives touched, friends that are no longer with us, pulling all night lan parties with the boys... Good times.
I’ve always preferred just starting a new character. Whenever I come back to a parked character it feels a little off and a bit overwhelming. Like remembering all the spell bindings again, sorting out my bags, checking my gear, trying to get everything up and rolling again. Even worse now with runes as well. It’s just an unpleasant and tedious experience overall.
that makes so much sense, all my friends who said they weren’t gonna play cata started raid logging SoD about a week ago, and are now levelling in the Cata prepatch
I wasd so hyped for P3. Finally a raid instead of glorified 10 man dungeon. Level 50 dungeons being relevant (as opposed to lvl 40 ones in p2) and Incursions on paper (pre-launch) sounded like a cool group activity to do with friends between lockouts.
Now i just feel like the bottom picture of the clown progression meme.
Right lol.
I actually like ST as a raid but the itemization sucks so bad our casters are indifferent to going and there's really nothing else to do that benefits your character & is enjoyable.
So 21/25 of our raiders are literally only online for 1.5 hours a week to raid.
Guild feels like a ghost town.
The bad itemization is sort of a necessary evil if you want lvl 60 dungeon gear to be relevant.
Hopefully they'll release phase 4 soon, and hopefully they'll nerf incursion gold/exp so that running loops in the hinterlands isn't a good way to lvl.
The amount of people ive seen say they quit because the raid is now 20 man is shocking. I wonder if they even put any thought into raiding molten core.
I raided from wotlk to MoP but I had no intention of raiding in SoD.
Just seemed like a fun game mode that was more geared towards exploring the world.
But when that turned out to only be true for phases 1 and 2 I unsubbed.
And I ran BFD in P2 and had planned on running gnomer in p3, so while I didn’t raid, I did enjoy BFD as a 10 man dungeon.
I mean... yeah. We had a group of 11 people for p1/p2. When we heard the raid was going to be 20m we looked for some more and quickly realized that "actually nah we don't want to pug or find more people we'd rather just not play". So we stopped. Raid size was a big factor for my guild, I'm sure it was for quite a few others just playing to fill the time like we were.
Idk I’m having fun levelling a warrior in P3. The XP boost and runes are super fun.
I tried to get back into retail but it’s extremely overwhelming and the gameplay feels too weird.
I do love the talent trees and the classes, but I’m just comfortable with the slow-pace of SoD
Played Cata once, don’t need to again.
SoD’s just the best option for most of us rn.
We pretty much the exact opposite responses lol. I stopped in wrath originally so I never played cata so I'm excited to try out new raids with my guildies I've known for 4+ years at this point but sod to me is dead unless they add new raids since I did mc/bwl/aq/naxx when they did classic and having a warlock tank a boss and not a warrior isn't enough for me to be hyped to go back into mc
It's absolutely crazy to me to see people who play SOD, which has received perhaps the most communication from the Dev team in all of WOW's history, act as if they are lacking communication. Cataclysm during it's beta has been almost the complete opposite, the worst communication of any beta cycle ever done by blizzard.
You're on week 5 of your new content, you're still getting PVP tuning tests and stuff. Will you stop acting like you've been abandoned just because Aggrend is taking holiday time. Every other version of wow has a playerbase that wishes the devs would give just half of what SOD's playerbase has been given.
Yeh SoD players are something else aren't they. I don't know which cave they emerged from either but they are the least reasonable of all WoW game types. SoD has had way more attention than Cata it isn't even a contest.
Cata is fun and actually has questing that feels different than kill x amount of enemies. Plus most of my guild went to cata from SOD. Never played it before tho but it feels better than wrath already from a noobs perspective
That meme doesn't make any sense. The last we heard anything remotely new on cata was at blizzcon. It's been in the shadow of SoD ever since. We didn't even get the pre patch event. We don't yet know if we'll get pre- or post-nerf dungeons.
Wow this sub.
Sod has had a massive amount of attention. Lead goes on vacation for a week and the sub moves to "they have completely forgotten about us".
Calm down.
Also there are different groups that work on these things. Classic and dragon flight are not the same group.
Feels exhausting like you say but if you enjoy all the different iterations and just wanna play wow then its a good time.
Just jump in and out of what feels good and enjoy the differences
Blizz has hit the tipping point for content. Having too much out at once makes it very hard to enjoy all the content if that is your thing. You're bound to miss something and that feels shitty.
Would be really interesting if the classic players enjoy mop remix since it uses the retail classes. Granted there are the bonus powers as well which change stuff up even more.
So as someone who played MoP very lightly, (mostly just grinding characters to lvl cap and doing some heroics before bailing) what makes it such a beloved expansion? Cata was where WoW started feeling like it lost the fire it once had for me to continue on. I also thought an entire race and expansion based on pandas felt strange. So I maybe had some bias there. But the theming and dungeons felt fun and difficult.
What were the major draws that made people remember it so fondly?
The biggest flaw of MoP was the initial launch on needing to do dailies to grind and max out valor. Past that the majority of the playerbase loved MoP for both PvP(I think I was more of a PvE player) and PvE scenes. Besides the raids they also introduced challenge modes, and the first legendary quest line for everyone which was not very alt friendly, but very cool for those who stuck to a single character. Plus challenge modes, which were fucking hard as hell even when people 'cheesed' it with extra socket gear.
T14(Mogu'shun Vaults/Heart of Fear/Terrace of the Endless Springs) had a lot of interesting fights with 'unusual' mechanics, and while there were some misses(Water sprite boss, and the lengthyness of Sha of Fear), there was also a lot of hits.
T15(Throne of Thunder) Nearly every fight slapped(Maybe not animus but that's my personal opinion), great aesthetic to it, and the progression was near perfect. They had a great way of going from easy - mid - hard for each section of the tier giving it a great cadence to prog, Lei-Shen was a god damn amazing finale fight. Ra-den the special extra boss after heroic Lei-Shen felt like an after though though.
T16(Siege of Orgrimmar) - Same thing as T15 in my opinion, with a few more misses like Galakras, and other fights. But still overall pretty great, the only reason I think people have mixed thoughts is the 14 month content drought it also had.
RIP classic, retail is the new classic with Remix. Looks like we are back full circle.
I would like some more scoops of the vanilla ice cream, playing on ERA is kind of meh compared to F R E S H
It's fine level bands of sod makes it an incomplete game. We need equivalent amount of dungeons and raids as lvl 60 endgame in each level band, new dungeons, multiple raids. It literally begs you to play for a little then stop whenever. Very casual season of dads remember.
This is all getting out of hand. Retail is superior and all this other remix, plunderstorm, SoD, classic, bs is just becoming overwhelming. It was cool at first, now let me just focus on my retail rooms.
Really enjoying Cataclysm atm, I left WoW shortly after Cata and didn’t come back to Legion.
Gotta imagine if they didn’t stop at Wrath they won’t stop with Cataclysm, I think they will continue until Legion. At least the dreaded content drought in WoD wouldn’t be a thing this time… maybe they will even do BFA… by the time it gets there it will probably be about the same distance OG Cata is to us now then when BFA will have first released. I’m curious how they will continue to develop the Classic servers though.
Idk why any of us think blizz is going to support anything worthwhile long term. Seriously we need a classic vanilla private server untouched and let's move there. You know blizz is gonna fuck up even era somehow.
I don't get people who want to play wow all day every day. I love the fact that I can get overloaded with stuff to do the first week and then I can start raid logging and enjoy my time doing other things.
People will return for p4... of course they will. SoD has been a lot about end game content - and you don't get more end game than 60. Plus there's just generally a lot of content to begin with at 60. Many key dungeons, raids... and then you have the new content they promised on top of it. I think p4 will be the best one.
SoD is in such a low, level 50 activities are alomst nonexistent.
What depresses me is i feel like end game is going to be a hot garbage of waves. For 3 months we do mc then 3 months we do blw, 3 months of AQ, to finish up nax in 3 months. Hey we are making servers perm, is the big surprise. No kara, no new content, long way over drawn out end game.
I wana crypts of karazhan so bad, but i have a looming feeling we wont get it. If i dig hard enough they made some statment saying after ST they wont be making any new raids. :( big sad
What they need to do for SoD is add some new zones or quests to make the leveling experience a bit different each time. Turtle Wow does it great, it makes it unique and makes you want to create a new character each time. They could do this.
Maybe it’s for the best if SoD dies then they give it a shot and there’s no real reason for a Classic plus, retail is a better experience on pretty much any timeline
I wish there was some overlap between them. I like to dip into each but the level grind takes it away.
I already levelled a character through SOD for ages, I've already levelled through cata multiple times when it was released initially. I just want to experience cata endgame again, but the thought of levelling puts me off. I end up sticking with retail more, feels a little more permanent.
Yeah phase three was bad. I don’t think the raid was bad but the incursions killed it for me. Literally the dumbest thing ever and yet it is the most rewarding
Honestly working on both Cata and SoD must be a lot of pressure. But it was definitely a mistake imo.
They need to increase the team size for classic, it's the best thing going for wow atm
Classic players are just in their own bubble arent they?
Ya, but it's a nice bubble! At least it was until p3. Dragonflight is a solid xpac.
Everyone is, all the time, for every game. Basically when they/their friends are enjoying something it's the latest and greatest thing that everyone is loving. As soon as they personally lose interest? Dead game, nobody gives a shit, why are you even still talking about it? Like I've been playing Counter Strike for *20 years* and I cannot tell you how many people I've seen discover the game, be amazed at how huge the community is, then lose interest and be like "lol what who plays CS anymore dead game". It's like this subs refusal to accept they do not represent the game in any meaningful way. 600k members total, 1% of that online most of the time, a fraction of that actually posting/commenting. Top comments usually get a couple hundred upvotes at best and the *top post of all time* is at about 90k, with the second less than half that. I'm sure the devs keep on eye on us like they do elsewhere but to think we matter compared to their internal data and stats is hilariously narcissistic.
what gets is me is the people who can only formulate and hold opinions based on a collective. the playerbase definitely skews in the older demographics but they behave worse than teenagers.
Right? Dragonflight has had consistently high praise pretty much the entire expac. We haven’t really seen that since… MoP? We won’t even be calling it revisionist history when 10 years from now it’s high in the running in the best expansion discussion. I love classic, and it’s hugely nostalgic for me. But let’s not pretend it’s the reason they can keep the lights on.
How dare you suggest that Classic isn't the digital manifestation of Jesus! Off with your head!
200 subs, pay them 1 employee roughly. They could hire more than 1 guy at least..
Being a consistent player of all versions of the game, it's wild reading comments on this sub sometimes.
While I agree the team size should be bigger, the feedback on Dragonflight along with their good sub numbers make it seem pretty clear from an outsider POV that retail is carrying at the moment money wise. Saying classic is the best thing going for wow at the moment just doesnt seem to hold up.
[удалено]
Yeah they were very firm on the "classic servers aren't profitable blah blah" for a long ass time and now look at them. They are definitely mad at how wrong they were and now it feels like they want it to die so they can give us the old "We told you so"
Damn I knew a considerable portion of the classic community are a little delusional but thinking a company would forgo profits purely out of spite is some next level tinfoil hat shit.
Yeah, the people making the decisions have all the data available to them and are also subject to constraints from their leadership above them that we don’t understand. It seems pretty reasonable that they tried to essentially skunkworks SoD and Hardcore as a way to prevent subscription churn from Wrath until they could get Cata out. Probably a passion project for a few of the devs that bit off more than they could chew. It absolutely hit it out of the park phase 1, but even if it’s profitable they probably want to retain that profit rather than dumping the money back into something with a dubious business case. It clearly hasn’t had much staying power and we won’t really know unless we see a strong player resurgence at endgame. Plus the time it would take to scale that team would be prohibitive, without pulling resources off of retail (which they probably don’t want to do.) What they should really be discussing internally is having fresh classic servers. Maybe even progression servers. If they can get that on an automated track and do a seasonal model, support could be relatively low. Just have a low server count, automate transfers onto era at the end of each season, and let it roll once every 12-18 months.
This is the most sensible and insightful comment on the WoW team from a business perspective I’ve ever seen. I work for a US tech start up firm, and we are also a subscription based model. Our team thinks exactly the same way and it seems like so many people don’t really get what Blizzard are doing with WoW Classic.
Thank you! It’s definitely arguable that Blizzard doesn’t have a solid strategy with respect to Classic right now, or that they don’t understand what the core classic player wants. Or stuff is in the pipeline for 15 months and we won’t see it until then. But these arm chair executives with no experience always irk me with their takes. It’s like when people post on recruitinghell that companies “post fake positions so they can keep up a public perception of growth” instead of the much more reasonable take that shit gets outdated, or there aren’t good integrations between their talent management system and their website, or they lose track id what third party sites have posted on them.
Have you never worked with a business leader who's convinced they're absolutely right, without any data to back it up? Lucker bastard
nah pride is a factor or else overwatch would be 6v6 again yesterday
More than likely Microsoft is just happy to rake in the profit they get from it and invest as little as possible back into the product. They aren’t willing to put the amount of new money into the game that it would take to scale up a full classic team. SoD was probably pitched as a passion project by the Classic team, and they underestimated the effort so now they are stuck managing both that and Cata poorly. SoD reeks of a moonshot that caught a little buzz. You can tell from the way all new systems and runes were implemented through existing assets which could be placed (such as a new golbin/gnome npc with dialogue), hacked together quest lines, and ability tuning/modification as opposed to truly new content. I agree with you that they could take a risk and beef up the team, and we might get something really special. That’s gonna be a hard sell to business types that don’t understand their gamers though. I bet the higher ups are reasonably happy with the data they’re seeing internally and feel like they’re getting a nice profit out of classic, and don’t want to rock the boat and gamble their careers on it being a hit again. what makes the most sense is probably one era server on life support and then seasonal reset servers or progression servers where people can play “fresh” classic, with the option to progress into TBC/Wrath.
I’m not even playing retail but can’t deny that’s the best thing going for them. It has a higher player base, DF has been critically acclaimed by the player base, and the hype for a trilogy expansion was just rolled out. Classic is NEVER getting huge focus again imo.
feel like classic and retail take turns being popular, based on patch cycles
Most classic players are casuals raidlogging after initial hype, many of which still play retail. Classic also just had the effect of reminding so many why retail became its way through QoL stuff they complain about in classic. Dragonflight being solid helps a lot too.
>Classic also just had the effect of reminding so many why retail became its way through QoL stuff they complain about in classic. Gotta be honest, at this point in classic, I don't see much difference to retail anymore. It's just a less fleshed out version of retail with worse graphics and worse qol.
Classic is only popular when retail is waiting on content. The classic only base is teeny tiny, and even most of them don't play classic outside of new shit or new servers or w/e
I'm one of the classic only ppl, I came back from pservers in classic relaunch and for SOD (didn't play hardcore or seasonal classic) but always quit very quickly when I see how blizzard manages to fuck up every vanilla relaunch. They are just terrible in this, don't know what classic players want are way to slow to fix or patch things . Back to pservers it is for me
Anyone who thinks a seasonal game mode like SoD would be anywhere as successful as Retail is delusional lol, it's actually such an outrageous claim one would have to be willfully ignorant to make it.
The good things I've heard about DF are genuinely making me consider coming back to retail for the first time in a decade.
You should, dragonflight has been solid start to finish. It will be a little overwhelming, but so would starting tbc after sunwell released.
I'd say it's way more overwhelming than that but I get your point
I don't really think so. Classic was no direction, google it gameplay, and retail is here's what to do, have fun gameplay. If you played tbc from being brand new it would take you an order of magnitude longer to catch up/gear up/understand the game than it does in retail. I had a buddy start last week after getting tired of SOD. He's doing keys now. After a week in tbc, you would be level 64 and still have absolutely no idea how the game works, stats, gear, etc. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Classic is fine, but retail is good and it really shows when people who don't or barely play try to talk about it, lol
The problem I had going back to DF after missing two raid cycles was that there was just too much stuff in the open world that had no meaning. I spent half a day doing quests for what I THOUGHT was the most recent item-catchup world event and then found out it was from the LAST patch cycle. DF is awesome, but dropping in late expac is a lot of confusing open world bloat. M+ etc is solid though.
Seriously, there's SO MANY WEIRD OBJECTS on the world map, and the hub is littered with tons of quests where some are meaningless and others lead to huge rewards or questchains. Retail is such an overwhelming experience joining this late. Once you get past the initial content bloat, it's an incredible experience though, imo :)
I get that, but disagree about 'bloat'. Almost everything has meaning in retail these days. Some stuff that only gives gear won't for long, but almost all of the questlines also lead to cosmetics/pets/etc rewards on top of still giving current relevant crests used to upgrade current gear. DF is awesome because even last tier stuff stays relevant in multiple ways.
Fair. But the tbc comparison is there isn’t any indication of what to do/ where to go to catch up so you have to google it. As for DF it spoon feeds you decently well if you don’t ignore quests and pop ups
Retails player size is massive compared to classic. I think before classic (early 2019) they had 7million subs and now with 4 versions of classic there around 9 to 10million. If I was blizzard I know I'd keep working in retail as that's what's keeping the majority subbed
And there are infinitely more micro-transactions in retail than classic.
A million times this. They can't further monetize classic players (well, they can and are for cata now). If I was a scummy exec and my goal was to make as much money as possible Why would I ever want company resources going to SoD/ classic over retail?
Ideally they would increase team size rather than struggle to spread their miniscule employees across a half-dozen different projects. I mean damn, despite them continually pushing the idea that Classic is the "free addition" we get for paying for Retail, Classic alone has kept my sub since August 2019. That's 58 months of sub (Jesus) with not a single microtransaction from the almighty Retail. You'd think me and the others like me would legitimize actually hiring people, but I guess not.
Yeah but you just laid out perfectly exactly why they *haven't* done any of that. Despite the lack of support or consistency in the classic product they've still had your sub for 58 months. Why change the status quo and hire more/ spend more on classic if they already have all these subs? It is very unfortunate how much gaming in 2024 fucking sucks
I mean yeah you wouldn't. The fact that classic exists and is supported to the degree that it is supported, despite its limited playerbase speaks volumes. But andys gonna andy about muh evul corporate and how they're being milked despite still only playing a $15 sub.
Where did you get your Data from? You do realize that's total subs right? Not owners of the Expansion?
According to this leak at GDC you’re very wrong. Classic vanilla release saw a doubling of WoW subscribers. Then if you track how terribly received BFA and Shadowlands you could assume that the 4m subscribers left as the graph peaks down during tbc and woltk is retail players taking a break; but that would be an assumption. https://tagn.wordpress.com/2024/03/25/the-purloined-letter-wow-subscriber-numbers-leak-from-a-gdc-presentation/
Classic wow release happened 5 years ago man, at the time classic was popular. Now people played classic and SoD ain't it. 2 different events 2 very different set of numbers.
And sod still only has 135k raiders. I don't know how many raiders are on hc/era but I assume less so maybe 250k between all 3. If we look at the final data point on that graph it's 7.25million. So yeah I'll stick by my original statement that retail completely dwarfs classic in every way
yeah unforch for us, that is the best business decision
I agree about the team size for classic, but Dragonflight has been an S tier expansion and a lot of people are really looking forward to the Panda Remix event this week. Retail has been killing it lately.
I enjoyed DF a fair amount compared to their last two expansions, but as a Resto Druid main I hated our Talent tree. I dislike having to choose between innervate or an interrupt.
There are certainly things to improve upon for DF, it's not perfect, but it's an incredibly good expansion and I don't think someone saying "classic is the best thing going for wow atm" is correct. And I play pretty much all iterations of wow and enjoy them all as what they are uniquely
Sorry but retail clears cata and SOD.
??? Retail is ALOT better than classic, it's even the first time in years the community actually loves retail.
It could be the best thing going for them but it doesn't make the same money as retail. All the things that classic players hate about retail is what makes retail a cash cow.
>it's the best thing going for wow atm You have no clue what's going on in retail, do you?
How is it the best thing for wow when it has less players?
Does Taylor swift make the best music in the world?
I mean Cataclysm isn't even classic anymore. Why are they continuing? Where do they draw the line, are we gonna have WoD classic, legion classic?
They draw the line where people stop playing. I though classic was done after wotlk at the laustest but apparently people want to play cata.
Classic isn’t og or vanilla. Classic is just playing through the game again 20 years later. I see them stopping at legion though. But also, by that time we will be probably 2 more xpacs down the line.
I have to admit trying to come back to retail, has me longing for the security of solved content and slower pace of play from classic. Trying to catch up on modern talents and play styles while dealing with a faster pace of play and more visual noise is just rough.
They're going to go until people stop playing again. Then they'll do what most players wanted and open an Era TBC server.
I'd love an era tbc server but I don't think it's what "most" wanted by any means Classic player base nose dived in tbc man lol
Friendly reminder covid happened in the year vanilla classic released so comparing sub numbers from any period to a very unique year in modern history where the majority of society was literallt trapped in their homes is extremely disingenuous.
Yeah I don't think blizzard is gonna take that into account when deciding which versions of the game get legacy servers man :vvv
MoP remix is not classic and isn't being worked on by the classic team
Well cata and sod are also not being worked on by the classic team..
lol
ZING
Nobody tell him that the "classic team" are the same devs that have worked on retail for years but were assigned to classic era projects along the way. Blizzard moves devs back and forth projects depending on the need.
I don’t think anyone doubts that or thinks that’s scandalous or anything.
True but some players might move from SoD to try it out.
This is me. Zero interest in Cata as the first time around was meh for me. SoD P3 has already killed off half of our guild raiders and the ppl remaining are just raidlogging now. Honestly I've been having more fun on retail lately since I haven't touched it since DF launch, yet all I do is farm some transmog and maybe do some LFR... MoP remix looks interesting. I'll give it a try while waiting for SoD P4.
I'm busy as hell in Cata prepatch right now, but I'm seriously eyeballing retail at the moment. That panda remix is starting to make me wonder if retail is where I'm going to end up. Whatever happens happens,
How are you busy, what are you doing in prepatch? Genuinely curious, the only things worth time I’ve found are AV spam for wrathful set and weps. After that what’s the point. And even then the first cata zone on release will give you higher ilvl gear than wrathful.
Leveling a Worgen
We live in a weird time now where blizzard/activision is pumping out way too many different projects at once. MWIII season updates seem to follow SOD phase releases. In addition to this you have Season 4 of D4 and 3 or 4 different types of WoW that you can all play. Feels a bit like overload.
I think its less about the volume of products and more that they've been doing their best to lose talent lately. For example I can't imagine how the mandatory in office hours decimated their lower paid staff (like QA). Them doing lots of different projects is good though, I remember a problem they figured out in wod was that more cooks in the kitchen doesn't let you make the dish faster.... but now they're realizing it does allow you to make more dishes simultaneously.
What is a mwiii
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3
More options is never a bad thing
Can be though when the greedy ass company that manages said options doesn't hire enough devs/ dedicate proper resources to each project
it splits the player base
Player bases are mostly fine for each version. You can even find a decent era guild to join at the moment. There aren't a ton but they're there. The main problem is all these versions are splitting the development teams and stretching them incredibly thin. So we're barely getting half assed/ unfinished versions of everything now.
A lot of people don't seem to understand that MoP Remix isn't classic. It's retail class design in scaled Mists of Pandaria content, what does it have to do with Classic when most people who enjoy Classic won't be tempted by Retail gameplay.
> when most people who enjoy Classic won't be tempted by Retail gameplay. I have my doubts about this comment. Maybe most /r/classicwow Redditors, but I don't think the playerbase at large is as dogmatic as you think. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a decent chunk of people not interested in Cata and not satisfied with SOD that would give MOP Remix a try. If I wasn't already content with playing Cata, I'd likely be giving MOP Remix a shot.
Yeah sometimes it's easy to forget this subreddit doesn't represent the general public of classic players.
It's just a temporary mode that goes away in August. It's designed to fill in the gap of a dead retail season (noone genuinely cares about fated seasons) and to level some extra characters. i think people are going into this thinking remix is way bigger than it is.
Eeeeeh... A lot of classic folks I've get to known through tbcc and wotlkc absolutely play that due to combat rotations fitting on a garage opener.
Its just a bad time right now between these three plus P3 has been sort of a stinker. If Phase 4 has some quality behind it people will come back. Have faith.
For me it’s hard to dust off a character and come back to it. I lose the connection to it or something Even for Cata I just rolled a fresh warrior on a new server to level in pre patch
Yeah a parked character is just dead to me, I'm kinda weird with that too.
That's wild, I don't actively play them any more as I'm on a different server now, but I still level my original rogue and warrior from 2004 to the level cap each expansion. Theres so many memories locked into those characters, so many lives touched, friends that are no longer with us, pulling all night lan parties with the boys... Good times.
Opening the bags and seeing a million random crafting reagents. Do I vendor or bank?.... New Character. It's simpler.
Just sell everything
I’ve always preferred just starting a new character. Whenever I come back to a parked character it feels a little off and a bit overwhelming. Like remembering all the spell bindings again, sorting out my bags, checking my gear, trying to get everything up and rolling again. Even worse now with runes as well. It’s just an unpleasant and tedious experience overall.
Yeah same. The bars and bags look all wild, wondering where I left professions at, etc. feels like don’t know how to play it
My conspiracy theory is that blizz added the incursions to speed run everyone through P3 so that they would be free to play Cata when it released.
Or as a test for something in MOP Remix, because a lot of it seems borrowed from SoD
That’s my take as well. Tinker gems sound like runes in a sense
Because they straight up are
that makes so much sense, all my friends who said they weren’t gonna play cata started raid logging SoD about a week ago, and are now levelling in the Cata prepatch
I wasd so hyped for P3. Finally a raid instead of glorified 10 man dungeon. Level 50 dungeons being relevant (as opposed to lvl 40 ones in p2) and Incursions on paper (pre-launch) sounded like a cool group activity to do with friends between lockouts. Now i just feel like the bottom picture of the clown progression meme.
Right lol. I actually like ST as a raid but the itemization sucks so bad our casters are indifferent to going and there's really nothing else to do that benefits your character & is enjoyable. So 21/25 of our raiders are literally only online for 1.5 hours a week to raid. Guild feels like a ghost town.
The bad itemization is sort of a necessary evil if you want lvl 60 dungeon gear to be relevant. Hopefully they'll release phase 4 soon, and hopefully they'll nerf incursion gold/exp so that running loops in the hinterlands isn't a good way to lvl.
Why? Just buff the level 60 gear also.
Why do people keep saying have faith, when Blizz has never rewarded such faith...
The amount of people ive seen say they quit because the raid is now 20 man is shocking. I wonder if they even put any thought into raiding molten core.
Seems like a lot of sod players never raided ever if going above 10 man is such a death sentence to this mode.
I raided from wotlk to MoP but I had no intention of raiding in SoD. Just seemed like a fun game mode that was more geared towards exploring the world. But when that turned out to only be true for phases 1 and 2 I unsubbed. And I ran BFD in P2 and had planned on running gnomer in p3, so while I didn’t raid, I did enjoy BFD as a 10 man dungeon.
I mean... yeah. We had a group of 11 people for p1/p2. When we heard the raid was going to be 20m we looked for some more and quickly realized that "actually nah we don't want to pug or find more people we'd rather just not play". So we stopped. Raid size was a big factor for my guild, I'm sure it was for quite a few others just playing to fill the time like we were.
Our group was very vocal about this on surveys as well. We all dropped SoD after clearing Gnomer twice since raids in P3 and on were becoming 20 man.
Idk I’m having fun levelling a warrior in P3. The XP boost and runes are super fun. I tried to get back into retail but it’s extremely overwhelming and the gameplay feels too weird. I do love the talent trees and the classes, but I’m just comfortable with the slow-pace of SoD Played Cata once, don’t need to again. SoD’s just the best option for most of us rn.
We pretty much the exact opposite responses lol. I stopped in wrath originally so I never played cata so I'm excited to try out new raids with my guildies I've known for 4+ years at this point but sod to me is dead unless they add new raids since I did mc/bwl/aq/naxx when they did classic and having a warlock tank a boss and not a warrior isn't enough for me to be hyped to go back into mc
You gotta have some damn faith Arthur
It's absolutely crazy to me to see people who play SOD, which has received perhaps the most communication from the Dev team in all of WOW's history, act as if they are lacking communication. Cataclysm during it's beta has been almost the complete opposite, the worst communication of any beta cycle ever done by blizzard. You're on week 5 of your new content, you're still getting PVP tuning tests and stuff. Will you stop acting like you've been abandoned just because Aggrend is taking holiday time. Every other version of wow has a playerbase that wishes the devs would give just half of what SOD's playerbase has been given.
Yeh SoD players are something else aren't they. I don't know which cave they emerged from either but they are the least reasonable of all WoW game types. SoD has had way more attention than Cata it isn't even a contest.
I feel like the dev team is stretched way too thin and we are going to get a subpar product in both Cata and SoD
Did you see how many bugs the cata prepatch had?
cmoon legion remix, fracture the playerbase even harder lets goo
You should add hardcore 10.000 miles below surface
Cata is fun and actually has questing that feels different than kill x amount of enemies. Plus most of my guild went to cata from SOD. Never played it before tho but it feels better than wrath already from a noobs perspective
Good thing the warlocks buffed waterbreathing.
sod sucks donkey dick
That meme doesn't make any sense. The last we heard anything remotely new on cata was at blizzcon. It's been in the shadow of SoD ever since. We didn't even get the pre patch event. We don't yet know if we'll get pre- or post-nerf dungeons.
Then there's me over here still playing classic era :p
SoD players when they might have to wait a whole month before another update 🤯 chill guys we have getting the most love
Why would retail devs have anything to do with classic stuff?
Because outrage
Wow this sub. Sod has had a massive amount of attention. Lead goes on vacation for a week and the sub moves to "they have completely forgotten about us". Calm down. Also there are different groups that work on these things. Classic and dragon flight are not the same group.
Overall it's a good time for WoW. Just need to hop around to see what feels fresh. This might get exhausting though.
Feels exhausting like you say but if you enjoy all the different iterations and just wanna play wow then its a good time. Just jump in and out of what feels good and enjoy the differences
Blizz has hit the tipping point for content. Having too much out at once makes it very hard to enjoy all the content if that is your thing. You're bound to miss something and that feels shitty.
Would be really interesting if the classic players enjoy mop remix since it uses the retail classes. Granted there are the bonus powers as well which change stuff up even more.
Il liked Phase 1 a lot, I never finished phase 2 and Phase 3 was to quick to start I lost motivation.
This place pretends like we don't have several phases left
So as someone who played MoP very lightly, (mostly just grinding characters to lvl cap and doing some heroics before bailing) what makes it such a beloved expansion? Cata was where WoW started feeling like it lost the fire it once had for me to continue on. I also thought an entire race and expansion based on pandas felt strange. So I maybe had some bias there. But the theming and dungeons felt fun and difficult. What were the major draws that made people remember it so fondly?
The biggest flaw of MoP was the initial launch on needing to do dailies to grind and max out valor. Past that the majority of the playerbase loved MoP for both PvP(I think I was more of a PvE player) and PvE scenes. Besides the raids they also introduced challenge modes, and the first legendary quest line for everyone which was not very alt friendly, but very cool for those who stuck to a single character. Plus challenge modes, which were fucking hard as hell even when people 'cheesed' it with extra socket gear. T14(Mogu'shun Vaults/Heart of Fear/Terrace of the Endless Springs) had a lot of interesting fights with 'unusual' mechanics, and while there were some misses(Water sprite boss, and the lengthyness of Sha of Fear), there was also a lot of hits. T15(Throne of Thunder) Nearly every fight slapped(Maybe not animus but that's my personal opinion), great aesthetic to it, and the progression was near perfect. They had a great way of going from easy - mid - hard for each section of the tier giving it a great cadence to prog, Lei-Shen was a god damn amazing finale fight. Ra-den the special extra boss after heroic Lei-Shen felt like an after though though. T16(Siege of Orgrimmar) - Same thing as T15 in my opinion, with a few more misses like Galakras, and other fights. But still overall pretty great, the only reason I think people have mixed thoughts is the 14 month content drought it also had.
RIP classic, retail is the new classic with Remix. Looks like we are back full circle. I would like some more scoops of the vanilla ice cream, playing on ERA is kind of meh compared to F R E S H
Isn’t the SoD playerbase down massively?
yep, like 80% less raiders from the peak
Hey SoD boys, I got a bridge I'm looking to sell.
Fucking Blizz not updating my game for over 6 weeks! Outrageous
Or you could play games that are not WoW.
God forbid you talk about WoW in a subreddit for WoW. You could read another subreddit that isn't this subreddit.
It's fine level bands of sod makes it an incomplete game. We need equivalent amount of dungeons and raids as lvl 60 endgame in each level band, new dungeons, multiple raids. It literally begs you to play for a little then stop whenever. Very casual season of dads remember.
Hardcore: 💀
This is all getting out of hand. Retail is superior and all this other remix, plunderstorm, SoD, classic, bs is just becoming overwhelming. It was cool at first, now let me just focus on my retail rooms.
CAT runs out of content very quickly.
Man im so out of the loop. I'm playing Cata atm, but wtf is pandaria remix or classic season of discovery?
More of a retail thing than a classic. Essentially playthrough and level up through Pandaria using the retail system of gameplay.
Really enjoying Cataclysm atm, I left WoW shortly after Cata and didn’t come back to Legion. Gotta imagine if they didn’t stop at Wrath they won’t stop with Cataclysm, I think they will continue until Legion. At least the dreaded content drought in WoD wouldn’t be a thing this time… maybe they will even do BFA… by the time it gets there it will probably be about the same distance OG Cata is to us now then when BFA will have first released. I’m curious how they will continue to develop the Classic servers though.
Idk why any of us think blizz is going to support anything worthwhile long term. Seriously we need a classic vanilla private server untouched and let's move there. You know blizz is gonna fuck up even era somehow.
If SoD is on the bottom, wheres ERA then... center of the earth ?
Hopped on retail a couple weeks ago when I re-upped planning to play sod. It's a better game, by a lot. MoP remix is going to be a lot of fun too
SoD died in phase 2. it was the very same as Phase 1. and in the end some runes and a few more quests are not enough to bind a player base.
I don't get people who want to play wow all day every day. I love the fact that I can get overloaded with stuff to do the first week and then I can start raid logging and enjoy my time doing other things.
Too many versions of wow out at the same time 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
Drop SoD lvl 60 cap already dammit, this phase is boring AF
Y’all salty af Some ppl still having fun. Try hards don’t represent the masses
I personally love PUG 20 man raids with rewards of ~2% better gear than pre BIS and wiping multiple times half way in before we gg
People will return for p4... of course they will. SoD has been a lot about end game content - and you don't get more end game than 60. Plus there's just generally a lot of content to begin with at 60. Many key dungeons, raids... and then you have the new content they promised on top of it. I think p4 will be the best one.
op triggered a lot of people lmao!!
SoD is in such a low, level 50 activities are alomst nonexistent. What depresses me is i feel like end game is going to be a hot garbage of waves. For 3 months we do mc then 3 months we do blw, 3 months of AQ, to finish up nax in 3 months. Hey we are making servers perm, is the big surprise. No kara, no new content, long way over drawn out end game.
If we don’t get the new end game raid I’ll be pissed
I wana crypts of karazhan so bad, but i have a looming feeling we wont get it. If i dig hard enough they made some statment saying after ST they wont be making any new raids. :( big sad
Nothing on the road map about new raids after the level 50 bracket, feels bad man
SOD is and has been dying for a long time. It’s jover, bros.
Phase 3 is a 10 level transitional phase... No need to call it dead in the water until we see what level 60 brings.
I too am huffing this same copium hard
The SoD payoff is coming. I think we're in for some really cool stuff at 60.
I'm not giving up on SoD. I love it.
What they need to do for SoD is add some new zones or quests to make the leveling experience a bit different each time. Turtle Wow does it great, it makes it unique and makes you want to create a new character each time. They could do this.
Maybe it’s for the best if SoD dies then they give it a shot and there’s no real reason for a Classic plus, retail is a better experience on pretty much any timeline
I wish there was some overlap between them. I like to dip into each but the level grind takes it away. I already levelled a character through SOD for ages, I've already levelled through cata multiple times when it was released initially. I just want to experience cata endgame again, but the thought of levelling puts me off. I end up sticking with retail more, feels a little more permanent.
What the hell is this MoP remix thing?
Nostalgia is quite marketable.
Phase 1 of Cataclysm and grinding Tusks/Mounts in MoP Remix is the only thing keeping me vaguely interested in WoW until TWW.
Yeah phase three was bad. I don’t think the raid was bad but the incursions killed it for me. Literally the dumbest thing ever and yet it is the most rewarding
Just imagine for a second: "BFA classic". What an abomination.
When is the Pandaria remix dropping?
Try Project Ascension
MoP was just 12 years ago... I mean private servers are a thing.
Mists is for weebs
they had to get mop ready with wow returning to mainland china. the expansion was initially created to cater to the chinese market.
Image Innacurate, need to add Era under the chair. We still cant whisper people on different servers
Can’t wait for Cata :)
buff fire mage
How do you find enough things to do? Alts?
“Balancing coming soon, not SoonTM”… aged like milk
I’d honestly take an extra few weeks of p3 if it meant they put even a fraction more effort into p4
So all Warlock's who ninjad Ashbringers will eventually be right.
Well stop it. No hope. Wow is doomed.
That is not good!
One of those is retail so yeah of course it's getting more attention
Eh mop remix is like 3 months long. Ill play it, but its gonna be a flash in the pan.
I do think SOD will ramp up at lvl 60.
Cata prepatch has been fun! The OG expansion wasn’t bad either the 9 months of dead time towards the end sucked but the content wasn’t bad.