Making hasty roster moves year after year is why teams like the 76ers and Clippers never find success
We have age on our side, weâll be signing someone with the MLE and thatâll be about it, unless we can find a trade partner that makes complete sense for our future. Hastily making moves to feign improvement isnât the correct decision and we just donât have the pieces to do so without that perfect trade partner, so just hold
Exactly! The people getting upset right now are the ones who define NBA success by the number of flashy transactions you make, not how good your team actually is.
Do you think Cavs are any better than 5th best? I donât see a world where they can beat Celtics, Knicks, Bucks or Sixers as currently constructed. You could argue itâs close with Magic and Pacers too.
Being 5-7th best isnât great and Iâm surprised fans like yourself are supporting Cavs FO nonchalant attitude, Mitchell is in his prime now.
They havenât made a trade for 2 years, they arenât even trying to improve. Itâs malpractice that Cavs are still lacking a wing
Cavs are introducing a new coach with a new system. We don't know how good we will be but the fact is we still have a talented team with depth and perhaps a new system that maximizes the offensive potential of this group will raise its ceiling. That can't be predicted.
Boston will still be the king, but there are legit concerns with the Sixers. PG and Embiid are not only injury prone stars, they are also known playoff chokes (George has been better recently). The Bucks are likely worse since trading Holiday and they might lose Lopez this offseason. The Knicks are tough, that's for sure. Honestly I think the Cavs can still finish top 3-4. We have long term chemistry, elite defense, and a lot of our young talent can still get better.
Exactly. Stealing this from a comment below: âwho knows, maybe Atkinson can unlock something in the offense, Garland returns to form and Mobley expands his game and we like how we look at the trade deadline.â
We can re-evaluate at the trade deadline, but this team has the talent to be as good as any other team in the East if our talent is maximized.
Garland, Mobley, and Allen can all give us 20 and 10. Mitchell can average near 30
I have no doubt that we see Mobley take another step, that weâll see the offense running through him more often, and see him improving on his jumper
Strus, Wade, and Okoro bring great energy every time theyâre on the court. And I really like what Iâm seeing from the highlight clips of Tysonâs game. Heâs not afraid to have the ball in his hands, and heâs willing to drive to the basket or pull up from three
Merrill and CPJ are icing on the cake as bench pieces, and yes we need to eventually find a consistent bench big that can offer more than Niang/TT/MorrisSr - but we still may be able to do that even this offseason
Thereâs only so much a coach can do. I think itâs clear the roster is flawed, albeit talented. Not having a viable wing when itâs been a clear need for years is incompetence.
Theyâve played together 2 years but I donât think thereâs chemistry thatâs conductive to winning a chip. I think Atkinson can turn Mobley into a more offensively versatile player but DG will struggle off ball and play at the pace Atkinson likes to run. Regardless, Cavs shouldâve been aggressive in the open market.
3rd or 4th with luck isnât what I think Cavs should aspire for. All of the Cavs direct competition are getting better and to do nothing as a response is either ignorant or arrogant.
> Regardless, Cavs shouldâve been aggressive in the open market.
What moves would you have liked them to make? Thereâs no way we were ever gonna beat the Knicks offer for Bridges.
> the fact is we still have a talented team **with depth**
We literally don't have a back up big man or point guard, or a starting SF let alone a backup. You call that depth?
Not even close. Healthy bucks and knicks clear us easily. Magic, pacers, sixers and even the heat will give us a run for our money. At best we are 4th in the east. At worst, 9th
Hard disagree and magic/pacers are absolutely not a tier below. Magic nearly beat us round 1 as the 4th youngest team in the league in their first post season together. Pacers went to the ECF. Both are clearly in our tier if not above. Bucks have an MVP player and lillard so they immediately jump us just based on star power alone. We do not beat them in a 7 game series if theyre healthy. Same goes for the sixers.Â
Tiers:Â Â
1) Celtics Â
2) NYK
3) Sixers, Bucks
4) Pacers, Cavs, Magic, Heat could go here or a tier down
I mean you can disagree, doesnât change the fact that youâre wrong.
We beat Magic in a series we were -200 in. We are the better team. Pacers went to the ECF in a grueling 7 game series against backups as underdogs. We would also be favored there. We have split against the healthy Bucks. That series would be a pick âem. Same goes for the 6ers. Any of the Cavs/Bucks/76ers teams would be favored against the Magic/Pacers/Heat teams. You are very off base for how the world views these teams.
Seems like youre the one whoâs wrong. By your logic it doesnt matter how the pacers got there, they went farther than us
Regular season matchups do not mean anything in the playoffs
Based on what? Your vibes? Iâm quoting international betting markets and historical outcomes, youâre just going âno, this is what I feel is rightâ
The arguments being made here are apples and oranges lmao
No we define how good they are by how far in playoffs. ECF appearance is the minimum acceptable. If you make it that far you can hold steady. Itâs been years since the last time.
No we define nba success by having a roster that can compete in the playoffs. This team has been ass in the last two and nothing happened to make it better.
Seems like people forget that most of these teams have been trying and failing to build championship rosters for 5+ years now, shit takes time.
Trying to force the issue with overpays or ill-fitting pieces to try to cut ahead of the line isnât always the best strategy.
Do I want the Cavs to do something yes, but people out here forgetting there isnât much going on. There is 20+ other teams that hasnât made a move. Itâs just not much movement this year. PG to Philly is ok at best. Same with Bridges to NY. Fans out here ready to tear everything up.
Bridges to NY, with a Knicks resigning OG, is a great move for that team. They just gotta make sure they have depth at the 5 and theyâre the second best team in the conference
Fair. Point being, itâs still a great trade for them. And, if anyone could stay healthy under thibs, itâd be the dude who never missed a game and played 83 games one season
Fair regarding Robinson and OG, but Randle is very reliable. Aside from his rookie year when he only played 1 game, he played 70 plus games 7/9 seasons. I do get what ur saying, though
Yep. I like the trade either way:
As a basketball fan: it will be pleasing to see a Knicks-Celtics series in the Confrontational Finals
As a Cavs fan: it would be fun to see that the Knicks tanked their future again
There isnât much movement for the Cavs because they arenât trying to move their valuable players. All reports have said so.
You can tell by the moves of the other possible trade partners (Wolves, Spurs Pelicans, Grizzlies ect) that a deal couldâve been done if Cavs were aggressive. They havenât made a trade for 2 years
Based on @dasher089432 I am going to be downvoted here. But this is incorrect.
If weâre talking win nowâŚ
PG is an elite two way wing. Still an All Star. Shoots 50/40
Maxey is a young scoring ball handler averaging 22+
Embiid is a literal MVP. Top 3 scorer. DPOY candidate year in and out.Â
They can then fill in the fringes b/c the roster construction works here.Â
We have a better Maxey in Mitchell in his prime. Everyone else is below all of these players. We may be even in the regular season because they rest PG and Embiid. But in a healthy 7 game playoff series weâre not even close. Â
This is not right. They are both All NBA players.
PG is the best 3 and D guy in the league. He is the much better defender and can hit 3s at a higher efficiency than Mitchell. Mitchell is the better all around scorer though.
No Mitchell is better and just impacts the game more. I donât know how you guys are even trying to justify this. On of them is probably a top 10 player and the other might make top 25
Mitchell is more like a top 5 scorer and this isnât how it works. Btw pg isnât a top 10 defender. Mitchell was having a 6.5 epm before he got hurt... thatâs borderline mvp level. His offensive creation for himself and teammates outweighs whatever more PG brings defensively.
Mitchell isn't a top 5 scorer. His TS% is below .600. There are many high volume scorers who shoot above that (Embiid, SGA, Doncic, Giannis, Jokic, James, Brunson, Leonard, Curry, Haliburton, Kawhi, Davis, Irving, Booker, Tatum and even George).
Paul George had a 5.7 epm, not far off from Mitchell's. PG is still a great defender who can still guard 1-4. He has great size obviously for a wing and uses it to defend the perimeter. He's a perfect fit if we got him.
Youâre looking at Mitchellâs stats that came down bc of his injury. Heâs definitely a top 5 scorer. He was avg 29ppg with the slowest pace team and no spacing
He averaged 29 ppg but on a TS% below .600. That's like saying Trae Young is a top scorer because he scores a lot. Mitchell is obviously much better but I wouldn't say he's a top 5 scorer when you still have all those players I listed above with a TS% above .600
I've said we lost the trade because we gave up too much to upgrade from Sexton to Mitchell. That's true, we did.
I've never suggested Sexton was a better or even equal player. I have accurately referenced that Sexton is a more efficient scorer than Mitchell, while acknowledging it's on lower usage. That's simply statistical reality.
Canât just make a move for the sake of it. After seeing what Bridges went for, I think it was clear we didnât have the pieces to swing a big move. Only guy left seems like Ingram and I donât want him.
Weâll see if Garland can increase his trade value mid-season with some good play. Injuries happen, other teams fall apart and become sellers.
Or who knows, maybe Atkinson can unlock something in the offense. Garland returns to form and Mobley expands his game and we like how we look at the trade deadline.
The Pelicans, Spurs, T-Wolves and Magic all got their point guards. There is no market for Darius Garland. We do not have first round picks because we traded them all away. We will not be getting any quality wings unless we trade either Mobley or Allen. We are probably stuck with this team.
Some of this activity is a good thing. I believe all of the teams with cap space have signed a big contract with somebody today, which means Okoro won't get priced too high.
The wizards are under the sand right now, it could always be worse! đ¤Ł
Making hasty roster moves year after year is why teams like the 76ers and Clippers never find success We have age on our side, weâll be signing someone with the MLE and thatâll be about it, unless we can find a trade partner that makes complete sense for our future. Hastily making moves to feign improvement isnât the correct decision and we just donât have the pieces to do so without that perfect trade partner, so just hold
Exactly! The people getting upset right now are the ones who define NBA success by the number of flashy transactions you make, not how good your team actually is.
Do you think Cavs are any better than 5th best? I donât see a world where they can beat Celtics, Knicks, Bucks or Sixers as currently constructed. You could argue itâs close with Magic and Pacers too. Being 5-7th best isnât great and Iâm surprised fans like yourself are supporting Cavs FO nonchalant attitude, Mitchell is in his prime now. They havenât made a trade for 2 years, they arenât even trying to improve. Itâs malpractice that Cavs are still lacking a wing
Cavs are introducing a new coach with a new system. We don't know how good we will be but the fact is we still have a talented team with depth and perhaps a new system that maximizes the offensive potential of this group will raise its ceiling. That can't be predicted. Boston will still be the king, but there are legit concerns with the Sixers. PG and Embiid are not only injury prone stars, they are also known playoff chokes (George has been better recently). The Bucks are likely worse since trading Holiday and they might lose Lopez this offseason. The Knicks are tough, that's for sure. Honestly I think the Cavs can still finish top 3-4. We have long term chemistry, elite defense, and a lot of our young talent can still get better.
Exactly. Stealing this from a comment below: âwho knows, maybe Atkinson can unlock something in the offense, Garland returns to form and Mobley expands his game and we like how we look at the trade deadline.â We can re-evaluate at the trade deadline, but this team has the talent to be as good as any other team in the East if our talent is maximized. Garland, Mobley, and Allen can all give us 20 and 10. Mitchell can average near 30 I have no doubt that we see Mobley take another step, that weâll see the offense running through him more often, and see him improving on his jumper Strus, Wade, and Okoro bring great energy every time theyâre on the court. And I really like what Iâm seeing from the highlight clips of Tysonâs game. Heâs not afraid to have the ball in his hands, and heâs willing to drive to the basket or pull up from three Merrill and CPJ are icing on the cake as bench pieces, and yes we need to eventually find a consistent bench big that can offer more than Niang/TT/MorrisSr - but we still may be able to do that even this offseason
Thereâs only so much a coach can do. I think itâs clear the roster is flawed, albeit talented. Not having a viable wing when itâs been a clear need for years is incompetence. Theyâve played together 2 years but I donât think thereâs chemistry thatâs conductive to winning a chip. I think Atkinson can turn Mobley into a more offensively versatile player but DG will struggle off ball and play at the pace Atkinson likes to run. Regardless, Cavs shouldâve been aggressive in the open market. 3rd or 4th with luck isnât what I think Cavs should aspire for. All of the Cavs direct competition are getting better and to do nothing as a response is either ignorant or arrogant.
> Regardless, Cavs shouldâve been aggressive in the open market. What moves would you have liked them to make? Thereâs no way we were ever gonna beat the Knicks offer for Bridges.
> the fact is we still have a talented team **with depth** We literally don't have a back up big man or point guard, or a starting SF let alone a backup. You call that depth?
Ahead of Post KCP signing Magic and Pacers?
Cavs are as good as any non celts team in east.
Not even close. Healthy bucks and knicks clear us easily. Magic, pacers, sixers and even the heat will give us a run for our money. At best we are 4th in the east. At worst, 9th
Knicks, sure, but the Bucks do not clear the Cavs easily lol. Cavs/Bucks/76ers are all in the same bucket with Magic/Pacers a tier below.
Hard disagree and magic/pacers are absolutely not a tier below. Magic nearly beat us round 1 as the 4th youngest team in the league in their first post season together. Pacers went to the ECF. Both are clearly in our tier if not above. Bucks have an MVP player and lillard so they immediately jump us just based on star power alone. We do not beat them in a 7 game series if theyre healthy. Same goes for the sixers. Tiers:  1) Celtics  2) NYK 3) Sixers, Bucks 4) Pacers, Cavs, Magic, Heat could go here or a tier down
I mean you can disagree, doesnât change the fact that youâre wrong. We beat Magic in a series we were -200 in. We are the better team. Pacers went to the ECF in a grueling 7 game series against backups as underdogs. We would also be favored there. We have split against the healthy Bucks. That series would be a pick âem. Same goes for the 6ers. Any of the Cavs/Bucks/76ers teams would be favored against the Magic/Pacers/Heat teams. You are very off base for how the world views these teams.
Seems like youre the one whoâs wrong. By your logic it doesnt matter how the pacers got there, they went farther than us Regular season matchups do not mean anything in the playoffs
Based on what? Your vibes? Iâm quoting international betting markets and historical outcomes, youâre just going âno, this is what I feel is rightâ The arguments being made here are apples and oranges lmao
No we define how good they are by how far in playoffs. ECF appearance is the minimum acceptable. If you make it that far you can hold steady. Itâs been years since the last time.
minimum acceptable pulled straight out the ass
Ironic considering our team isnt really good at all
No we define nba success by having a roster that can compete in the playoffs. This team has been ass in the last two and nothing happened to make it better.
Yeah PG isnât going to put the 6ers over the edge lol
Seems like people forget that most of these teams have been trying and failing to build championship rosters for 5+ years now, shit takes time. Trying to force the issue with overpays or ill-fitting pieces to try to cut ahead of the line isnât always the best strategy.
No need to worry about player chemistry if the only change is the coach (strategy)? đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Do I want the Cavs to do something yes, but people out here forgetting there isnât much going on. There is 20+ other teams that hasnât made a move. Itâs just not much movement this year. PG to Philly is ok at best. Same with Bridges to NY. Fans out here ready to tear everything up.
Bridges to NY, with a Knicks resigning OG, is a great move for that team. They just gotta make sure they have depth at the 5 and theyâre the second best team in the conference
Doesnât matter who they have on the bench. Thibs still going to play the starters 35-40 minutes/night and they will all be injured again by AprilâŚ
Fair. Point being, itâs still a great trade for them. And, if anyone could stay healthy under thibs, itâd be the dude who never missed a game and played 83 games one season
That doesn't do anything when their starting center pf and whatever og is are always injured
Fair regarding Robinson and OG, but Randle is very reliable. Aside from his rookie year when he only played 1 game, he played 70 plus games 7/9 seasons. I do get what ur saying, though
They will all be injured again.
Still a good trade
Yes it's a good gamble as a win now move. Problem is they are better on 3 players who are always injured not being injured.
Yep. I like the trade either way: As a basketball fan: it will be pleasing to see a Knicks-Celtics series in the Confrontational Finals As a Cavs fan: it would be fun to see that the Knicks tanked their future again
Yes it's fun to laugh at knicks. They did nothing in the playoffs and decide to go all in.
Bridges played 82 games last year and is notorious fir his durability
There isnât much movement for the Cavs because they arenât trying to move their valuable players. All reports have said so. You can tell by the moves of the other possible trade partners (Wolves, Spurs Pelicans, Grizzlies ect) that a deal couldâve been done if Cavs were aggressive. They havenât made a trade for 2 years
not worried when d mitch is better than pg, dg is (can) be better than maxey, and embiid is constantly injured (plus our bigs got him on lock)
D Mitch needs to sign
Based on @dasher089432 I am going to be downvoted here. But this is incorrect. If weâre talking win now⌠PG is an elite two way wing. Still an All Star. Shoots 50/40 Maxey is a young scoring ball handler averaging 22+ Embiid is a literal MVP. Top 3 scorer. DPOY candidate year in and out. They can then fill in the fringes b/c the roster construction works here. We have a better Maxey in Mitchell in his prime. Everyone else is below all of these players. We may be even in the regular season because they rest PG and Embiid. But in a healthy 7 game playoff series weâre not even close. Â
PG is a much better defender and it's not particularly close. Maxey had a 3.1 BPM and 3.4 VORP last year. Garland had a -1.0 and 0.5.
Mitchell is a way better player than PG.
This is not right. They are both All NBA players. PG is the best 3 and D guy in the league. He is the much better defender and can hit 3s at a higher efficiency than Mitchell. Mitchell is the better all around scorer though.
PG can't stay on the court, is a playoff shrinker, and coasts on defense randomly.
PG has won many more playoff games than Mitchell. This is not a good take.
No Mitchell is better and just impacts the game more. I donât know how you guys are even trying to justify this. On of them is probably a top 10 player and the other might make top 25
Mitchell is a top 10 scorer. PG is a top 15 scorer. PG is a top 10 defender. Mitchell is....a top 150 defender?
Mitchell is more like a top 5 scorer and this isnât how it works. Btw pg isnât a top 10 defender. Mitchell was having a 6.5 epm before he got hurt... thatâs borderline mvp level. His offensive creation for himself and teammates outweighs whatever more PG brings defensively.
It doesnât when they have two 28+ ppg scorers so PG only needs to score 20 and play his top defense on the wings.Â
Mitchell isn't a top 5 scorer. His TS% is below .600. There are many high volume scorers who shoot above that (Embiid, SGA, Doncic, Giannis, Jokic, James, Brunson, Leonard, Curry, Haliburton, Kawhi, Davis, Irving, Booker, Tatum and even George). Paul George had a 5.7 epm, not far off from Mitchell's. PG is still a great defender who can still guard 1-4. He has great size obviously for a wing and uses it to defend the perimeter. He's a perfect fit if we got him.
Youâre looking at Mitchellâs stats that came down bc of his injury. Heâs definitely a top 5 scorer. He was avg 29ppg with the slowest pace team and no spacing
He averaged 29 ppg but on a TS% below .600. That's like saying Trae Young is a top scorer because he scores a lot. Mitchell is obviously much better but I wouldn't say he's a top 5 scorer when you still have all those players I listed above with a TS% above .600
He's not, but that's not even particularly relevant. PHI was already as good as CLE, when healthy (admittedly rare). This makes them better.
You watch basketball??? They arenât even close.
yep. both ends of the court too.
Are you that sexton guy???
I don't think so, but depends on the context I suppose.
The one who says we lost the trade bc sexton is better but just has less usage
lmao yep. thatâs him. and thatâs the least of it Iâm afraid.
I've said we lost the trade because we gave up too much to upgrade from Sexton to Mitchell. That's true, we did. I've never suggested Sexton was a better or even equal player. I have accurately referenced that Sexton is a more efficient scorer than Mitchell, while acknowledging it's on lower usage. That's simply statistical reality.
wanted jalen smith for 3Y/27M...
I saw your comment and immediately googled it, canât believe another one slipped..
They not even trying
Canât just make a move for the sake of it. After seeing what Bridges went for, I think it was clear we didnât have the pieces to swing a big move. Only guy left seems like Ingram and I donât want him. Weâll see if Garland can increase his trade value mid-season with some good play. Injuries happen, other teams fall apart and become sellers. Or who knows, maybe Atkinson can unlock something in the offense. Garland returns to form and Mobley expands his game and we like how we look at the trade deadline.
The Pelicans, Spurs, T-Wolves and Magic all got their point guards. There is no market for Darius Garland. We do not have first round picks because we traded them all away. We will not be getting any quality wings unless we trade either Mobley or Allen. We are probably stuck with this team.
Some of this activity is a good thing. I believe all of the teams with cap space have signed a big contract with somebody today, which means Okoro won't get priced too high.
I mean what can we do lol
Market set for reasonably effective third bigs at 8-10m. I like it
The 70 squealers ain't doing shit. Joel Emflop will flop his way out of the first or second round like always and cry about it.
Any way we could make a deal for derozan?Â
Why canât we just make a move đ
Give me Miles Bridges
Like to see Wiseman in our roster as a back up big
i just wish we signed drummond bro lol