I live in Brazil and I remember one specially hot week in November last year. Food really ripe faster and bananas are a good example. The thing is, too hot here is 35º, India is above 40º, almost 50º
From Bloomberg reporter Pratik Parija:
India wastes more food than almost any other country partly because of spotty refrigeration. Climate change is making the problem worse.
Early each morning in the Indian city of Bhubaneswar, wholesaler Gadadhara Mohanty waits anxiously for trucks carrying bananas to a food market from a few hundred kilometers away. With no refrigeration in his storeroom, a single-day delay in selling the bananas can reduce the value of his stockpile by at least 10%.
This is no small problem for India, where as much as 15% of fruits and vegetables are lost after harvesting, despite still-persistent malnutrition and hunger. As climate changes exacerbates extreme heat, the numbers are likely to worsen in South Asia, one of the most vulnerable regions to rising temperatures. Read the full story [here](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-24/india-heat-waves-linked-to-climate-change-cause-massive-food-waste).
I don’t think people realize that this is only going to get worse. I never hear climate scientists warn of global food shortages. Unfortunately we will probably see some of the largest famines of all time as a result to human caused climate change.
> I never hear climate scientists warn of global food shortages.
They do, several of the papers on the first page of this search is on that topic. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C6&as_ylo=2020&q=climate+change+global+food+shortages&btnG=
Food shortages now are the result of an economic system that treats food as a commodity to trade on world markets for profit. It also prioritizes access to that food based on your ability to pay.
Doomer nonsense. China lost over 20 million people during the great famine.(exact number unknown could be twice that amount). We won’t see that sort of death from climate change. It will be just
like in china the result of bad governance. I’m sure those responsible will blame climate change because that’s an easy scapegoat but the truth will be something far worse.
Climate change will certainly exacerbate some food stress in areas, but it will of course also mean better outcomes for other areas. Ultimately we will adapt. The technological gains we have made over the past 75 years makes something like the great famine occurring again unthinkable.
If the grid fails during 120+ degree heat wave, yes.
If it can fail in the winter it can fail in the summer. Especially with storms getting more intense. A tornado knocking out the grid during a massive heat wave would be catastrophic
So are we just making things up now? The major issue with Texas that left people without power had to do with high demand for electricity without sufficient power available. The reason power wasn’t available was due to the gas power plants getting frozen along with reduced solar and wind outputs. The grid didn’t fail, the failure was due to the grid not being connected to other grids so power could not be relayed in from neighboring states. Texas leads the country in solar installs by an insane degree…during a heat wave people will be chillin inside under AC units like they normally do.
How do you even get out of bed every morning believing that the future is going to involve constant death tolls of millions of people.
We continue to live in the best time to be alive globally that ever existed. The fact that millions of Indians exist to even have the potential to die in one of your made up disasters is due to amazing scientific advances humanity has achieved of the past couple centuries that have allowed such prosperous growth around the world.
Have you been to India? I have. A couple times. India is not like Texas. As you said, in TX we are adding solar like crazy and a decent amount of battery backup. We have tons of wind and a highly fault tolerant grid. That one winter outage was simply a matter of ERCOT being - as you said - unprepared for a cold freeze and having gas infrastructure that wasn't properly winterized. Now it is.
India's infrastructure is way more over stretched and fragile. India's government struggles to address serious issues. Chenai actually ran out of water and had to truck it in. Zoinks. Poorer countries have fewer resources.
Let's please agree that the past is the best predictor of the future. India understated their covid deaths by a factor of roughly 10. The India government just isn't that fazed by the deaths of 5 million or so people.
Not sure what India has to do with me questioning the concept of a heat wave killing 1 million people in Texas. I have no doubt India will face extreme issues. Huge population, very poor overall. The fun fact is that without all the tech that ultimately is the driver of climate change India would have a fraction of people living there. In my book existing and having a chance of life with the potential to suffer still beats never being born…call me an optimist I guess.
You said:
-----
We continue to live in the best time to be alive globally that ever existed. The fact that millions of Indians exist to even have the potential to die in one of your made up disasters is due to amazing scientific advances humanity has achieved of the past couple centuries that have allowed such prosperous growth around the world.
-----
Objectively it is true that we have the best tech right now and are leveraging the hell out of it in a fascinating upspiral. I believe AlphaFold 3 just came out. One of many examples of super savant software, software that has some niche ability that massively surpasses what even the best human can do.
That said, overshoot is a real thing. We are deep into overshoot - considering any sane IPAT analysis. IF and only if we crank the T part of the equation way up while leaving the P stable, and the A growing modestly, maybe just maybe we can dig out of the overshoot peacefully.
Because historically, humans have reacted very badly to anything that threatens their standard of living. They (we/us/homo sapiens) tend to attempt to take our neighbors stuff when than happens. Macro level robbery or war if you prefer.
Temps have been unsurvivable for people in places like eastern California, Texas and Arizona without technology from time immemorial. Technology has only gotten better. Which is why so many people have moved to these places despite the increase in average temperatures.
Sure technology can fail and people will die. My critique was your belief that 1 million+ will die from a heat event in modern day Texas.
From google search:
28 million Texans, with a poor population of about 13.9% (since 2022).
28 million x 0.139 = 3.892 million people. A good majority will likely be unable to escape the heat in a meaningful way. That's not including the health conditions that would likely arise in a high temperature/ obese population, or the middle class, which would contribute to further deaths.
1 million is a liberal estimate.
You think there are over 1 million Texans without AC? Poor people have cars, cell phones and AC. You clearly have never lived in a hot climate. As someone born in phoenix with family still in the state you have to be out of your damn mind to think a large number of people poor or not live in these places without AC. Good luck with your career as a google search expert.
Omg gloom and doom in this forum. Did you ever think that all this might be just a ploy to get Al Gore more millions of dollars hot and cold cycles have been with the Earth since the beginning and storms particularly hurricanes are no stronger, no more frequent, and no more damaging than they were 50 or 100 years ago people are making that argument solely based on the cost of the damage and that damage is because people have built houses directly on the coastline and very expensive houses at that
mfw a hotter climate magically improves the soil quality in regions poorly fit for agriculture and thus creates "better outcomes" out of thin air
There's bound to be a few areas that'll see greater crop yields/viability due to changes in the average temperature and weather; but they're just not going to make up for the decline of our current breadbaskets.
Good rain and fair temps aren't the only things crops need to thrive. You could give Utah the climate of Ukraine and you still wouldn't be able to grow well there.
What does “climate change” have to do with lack of refrigeration - seriously.
If this was in a place that HAD refrigeration then “climate change” wouldn’t be happening right?
Sheesh.
Of course it does - because it isn’t refrigerated.
Put it in a refrigerated space and it won’t spoil - this has absolutely nothing to do with “climate change”. The same thing would happen here if I didn’t refrigerate my food.
Doomerism.
So if someone donated a refrigerator to the area that had food spoiling then it wouldn’t be an issue anymore right? Think about this for a minute.
You don't know how poor people here in India are still. Most people don't buy food from supermarkets. It's 48 C now (real feel, due to humidity) in a place where 20 years back 32C would be considered hot.
Its not 48c.
*”The average annual temperature was about 26.9 °C in the years after 1990 and about 27.4 °C in the last years before 2023. It has therefore increased only slightly by about 0.5 °C over the past 34 years. This trend only applies to the selected 4 weather stations in India”*
https://www.worlddata.info/asia/india/climate.php
No matter what you can’t use “realfeel” temperatures. Use actual. They will tell us that the “realfeel” temps here are 20° below zero when the actual temperature is 0° just because of the windchill factor. This has nothing to do with the actual temperatures.
A small increase in overall average, and yet record setting [spikes](https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/odisha/2024/Apr/23/at-438-degree-celsius-bhubaneswar-hottest-in-india#:~:text=At%2043.8%20degree%20Celsius%2C%20Bhubaneswar%20hottest%20in%20India).
And you completely sidestepped the point about how poor the average person is over there by comparison, "just buying refrigerators and refrigerated trucks" isn't so simple.
To put it into perspective, the average US net worth is $1.06 million USD with a median of 192k USD. India has an average of 15k USD with a median of $3.4k USD. Imagine trying to afford that luxury making 1/60th the money, not to mention the upkeep for the electricity & maintenance.
This wasn’t a response to what he said, you do realize this right? You just avoided the entire comment to focus on temperature semantics.
India struggles with refrigeration because the country is fairly poor and generally lacks the electric infrastructure/capacity for everyone to have a fridge. Not to mention the houses themselves often lack the wiring gage to run a fridge. Climate change is related because it’s warmer than it has been in the past, thereby causing food to spoil quicker.
Telling India to ‘just get refrigeration’ is like telling a drowning person to just swim. Beyond this, it makes you look so fucking incredibly privileged when you say ‘just get a fridge.’
Are you trying to say that climate does or doesn't make a country poor, or that a country being poor causes climate change? Cuz that's not what I was saying, nor what anyone else is saying. You're making no sense dude.
Climate change increases the strain on struggling countries, and disproportionately the impoverished and marginalized groups in those countries.
Climate change is happening whether you believe it or not. The world is warming. Forest fires are occurring at exponentially increasing rates, glaciers are disappearing, etc... These are factual, observable phenomena. Like... What are you even arguing here?
These questions are rhetorical, I don't expect intelligent debate from you. Feel free to respond with more nonsense, or a sarcastic insult, passive aggressive emoji, whichever makes you feel better. Cheers mate 🥂
If you can't draw a line between lack of refrigeration and high temperature spikes being an issue, I struggle to believe you even know what refrigeration means.
I live in Brazil and I remember one specially hot week in November last year. Food really ripe faster and bananas are a good example. The thing is, too hot here is 35º, India is above 40º, almost 50º
From Bloomberg reporter Pratik Parija: India wastes more food than almost any other country partly because of spotty refrigeration. Climate change is making the problem worse. Early each morning in the Indian city of Bhubaneswar, wholesaler Gadadhara Mohanty waits anxiously for trucks carrying bananas to a food market from a few hundred kilometers away. With no refrigeration in his storeroom, a single-day delay in selling the bananas can reduce the value of his stockpile by at least 10%. This is no small problem for India, where as much as 15% of fruits and vegetables are lost after harvesting, despite still-persistent malnutrition and hunger. As climate changes exacerbates extreme heat, the numbers are likely to worsen in South Asia, one of the most vulnerable regions to rising temperatures. Read the full story [here](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-24/india-heat-waves-linked-to-climate-change-cause-massive-food-waste).
I don’t think people realize that this is only going to get worse. I never hear climate scientists warn of global food shortages. Unfortunately we will probably see some of the largest famines of all time as a result to human caused climate change.
> I never hear climate scientists warn of global food shortages. They do, several of the papers on the first page of this search is on that topic. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C6&as_ylo=2020&q=climate+change+global+food+shortages&btnG=
and further, those events are likely to be politically weaponized
That’s always been one of the major points I’ve always heard… Do you live under a rock? That is sort of how we got GMO’s for crops isn’t it?
Food shortages now are the result of an economic system that treats food as a commodity to trade on world markets for profit. It also prioritizes access to that food based on your ability to pay.
They are also soon to be a result of animals and plants dying due to heat waves
Doomer nonsense. China lost over 20 million people during the great famine.(exact number unknown could be twice that amount). We won’t see that sort of death from climate change. It will be just like in china the result of bad governance. I’m sure those responsible will blame climate change because that’s an easy scapegoat but the truth will be something far worse. Climate change will certainly exacerbate some food stress in areas, but it will of course also mean better outcomes for other areas. Ultimately we will adapt. The technological gains we have made over the past 75 years makes something like the great famine occurring again unthinkable.
I think a multi million person heat death In Places like India, Philippines, Texas etc are more likely
You think a million people+ will die from a heat wave in Texas?
If the grid fails during 120+ degree heat wave, yes. If it can fail in the winter it can fail in the summer. Especially with storms getting more intense. A tornado knocking out the grid during a massive heat wave would be catastrophic
So are we just making things up now? The major issue with Texas that left people without power had to do with high demand for electricity without sufficient power available. The reason power wasn’t available was due to the gas power plants getting frozen along with reduced solar and wind outputs. The grid didn’t fail, the failure was due to the grid not being connected to other grids so power could not be relayed in from neighboring states. Texas leads the country in solar installs by an insane degree…during a heat wave people will be chillin inside under AC units like they normally do. How do you even get out of bed every morning believing that the future is going to involve constant death tolls of millions of people. We continue to live in the best time to be alive globally that ever existed. The fact that millions of Indians exist to even have the potential to die in one of your made up disasters is due to amazing scientific advances humanity has achieved of the past couple centuries that have allowed such prosperous growth around the world.
Have you been to India? I have. A couple times. India is not like Texas. As you said, in TX we are adding solar like crazy and a decent amount of battery backup. We have tons of wind and a highly fault tolerant grid. That one winter outage was simply a matter of ERCOT being - as you said - unprepared for a cold freeze and having gas infrastructure that wasn't properly winterized. Now it is. India's infrastructure is way more over stretched and fragile. India's government struggles to address serious issues. Chenai actually ran out of water and had to truck it in. Zoinks. Poorer countries have fewer resources. Let's please agree that the past is the best predictor of the future. India understated their covid deaths by a factor of roughly 10. The India government just isn't that fazed by the deaths of 5 million or so people.
Not sure what India has to do with me questioning the concept of a heat wave killing 1 million people in Texas. I have no doubt India will face extreme issues. Huge population, very poor overall. The fun fact is that without all the tech that ultimately is the driver of climate change India would have a fraction of people living there. In my book existing and having a chance of life with the potential to suffer still beats never being born…call me an optimist I guess.
You said: ----- We continue to live in the best time to be alive globally that ever existed. The fact that millions of Indians exist to even have the potential to die in one of your made up disasters is due to amazing scientific advances humanity has achieved of the past couple centuries that have allowed such prosperous growth around the world. ----- Objectively it is true that we have the best tech right now and are leveraging the hell out of it in a fascinating upspiral. I believe AlphaFold 3 just came out. One of many examples of super savant software, software that has some niche ability that massively surpasses what even the best human can do. That said, overshoot is a real thing. We are deep into overshoot - considering any sane IPAT analysis. IF and only if we crank the T part of the equation way up while leaving the P stable, and the A growing modestly, maybe just maybe we can dig out of the overshoot peacefully. Because historically, humans have reacted very badly to anything that threatens their standard of living. They (we/us/homo sapiens) tend to attempt to take our neighbors stuff when than happens. Macro level robbery or war if you prefer.
Looks like it took a whole 3 days for you to be proven wrong https://www.reddit.com/r/energy/s/Xz1Z90NYpE
You don’t have to be Nostradamus to see that temperatures are increasing past what humans can withstand without tech - and that tech can fail.
Temps have been unsurvivable for people in places like eastern California, Texas and Arizona without technology from time immemorial. Technology has only gotten better. Which is why so many people have moved to these places despite the increase in average temperatures. Sure technology can fail and people will die. My critique was your belief that 1 million+ will die from a heat event in modern day Texas.
From google search: 28 million Texans, with a poor population of about 13.9% (since 2022). 28 million x 0.139 = 3.892 million people. A good majority will likely be unable to escape the heat in a meaningful way. That's not including the health conditions that would likely arise in a high temperature/ obese population, or the middle class, which would contribute to further deaths. 1 million is a liberal estimate.
You think there are over 1 million Texans without AC? Poor people have cars, cell phones and AC. You clearly have never lived in a hot climate. As someone born in phoenix with family still in the state you have to be out of your damn mind to think a large number of people poor or not live in these places without AC. Good luck with your career as a google search expert.
It only needs to be hot enough where you can't sweat.
and there are way too many people that are over weight or have medical illnesses that extreme heat with exasperate
You have heard of AC? You think people survive in Texas today without AC?
Omg gloom and doom in this forum. Did you ever think that all this might be just a ploy to get Al Gore more millions of dollars hot and cold cycles have been with the Earth since the beginning and storms particularly hurricanes are no stronger, no more frequent, and no more damaging than they were 50 or 100 years ago people are making that argument solely based on the cost of the damage and that damage is because people have built houses directly on the coastline and very expensive houses at that
mfw a hotter climate magically improves the soil quality in regions poorly fit for agriculture and thus creates "better outcomes" out of thin air There's bound to be a few areas that'll see greater crop yields/viability due to changes in the average temperature and weather; but they're just not going to make up for the decline of our current breadbaskets. Good rain and fair temps aren't the only things crops need to thrive. You could give Utah the climate of Ukraine and you still wouldn't be able to grow well there.
#CLIMATE CHANGE ISN’T REAL /S
It was outlawed in Florida. How can climate change actually happen? Wouldn't that be illegal?
Sun dry the bananas = win
Make lemonade?
No wonder so many Indians want PR in Canada!
Solar dehydrators would be a suitable solution
What does “climate change” have to do with lack of refrigeration - seriously. If this was in a place that HAD refrigeration then “climate change” wouldn’t be happening right? Sheesh.
The food spoils quicker.
Of course it does - because it isn’t refrigerated. Put it in a refrigerated space and it won’t spoil - this has absolutely nothing to do with “climate change”. The same thing would happen here if I didn’t refrigerate my food. Doomerism. So if someone donated a refrigerator to the area that had food spoiling then it wouldn’t be an issue anymore right? Think about this for a minute.
You don't know how poor people here in India are still. Most people don't buy food from supermarkets. It's 48 C now (real feel, due to humidity) in a place where 20 years back 32C would be considered hot.
Its not 48c. *”The average annual temperature was about 26.9 °C in the years after 1990 and about 27.4 °C in the last years before 2023. It has therefore increased only slightly by about 0.5 °C over the past 34 years. This trend only applies to the selected 4 weather stations in India”* https://www.worlddata.info/asia/india/climate.php
India is a subcontinent - it's huge. I'm talking about my town this week. Go widen your small world.
No matter what you can’t use “realfeel” temperatures. Use actual. They will tell us that the “realfeel” temps here are 20° below zero when the actual temperature is 0° just because of the windchill factor. This has nothing to do with the actual temperatures.
I don't care about you. Have a good day.
😂
Bro, bananas have feelings. When they can’t sweat because of high humidity they get sad and they spoil faster - because like science or something.
A small increase in overall average, and yet record setting [spikes](https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/odisha/2024/Apr/23/at-438-degree-celsius-bhubaneswar-hottest-in-india#:~:text=At%2043.8%20degree%20Celsius%2C%20Bhubaneswar%20hottest%20in%20India). And you completely sidestepped the point about how poor the average person is over there by comparison, "just buying refrigerators and refrigerated trucks" isn't so simple. To put it into perspective, the average US net worth is $1.06 million USD with a median of 192k USD. India has an average of 15k USD with a median of $3.4k USD. Imagine trying to afford that luxury making 1/60th the money, not to mention the upkeep for the electricity & maintenance.
This wasn’t a response to what he said, you do realize this right? You just avoided the entire comment to focus on temperature semantics. India struggles with refrigeration because the country is fairly poor and generally lacks the electric infrastructure/capacity for everyone to have a fridge. Not to mention the houses themselves often lack the wiring gage to run a fridge. Climate change is related because it’s warmer than it has been in the past, thereby causing food to spoil quicker. Telling India to ‘just get refrigeration’ is like telling a drowning person to just swim. Beyond this, it makes you look so fucking incredibly privileged when you say ‘just get a fridge.’
“Temperature semantics” Lol sure
Still not a response to what’s been said, bud. Care to try again?
Nah it ain’t even worth it. Enjoy your weekend
You do the same.
Is this really your best argument? Yeesh, the climate change denialists are grasping at straws these days.
You keep thinking that - and then keep thinking that because a country is poor - “climate change”.
Are you trying to say that climate does or doesn't make a country poor, or that a country being poor causes climate change? Cuz that's not what I was saying, nor what anyone else is saying. You're making no sense dude. Climate change increases the strain on struggling countries, and disproportionately the impoverished and marginalized groups in those countries. Climate change is happening whether you believe it or not. The world is warming. Forest fires are occurring at exponentially increasing rates, glaciers are disappearing, etc... These are factual, observable phenomena. Like... What are you even arguing here? These questions are rhetorical, I don't expect intelligent debate from you. Feel free to respond with more nonsense, or a sarcastic insult, passive aggressive emoji, whichever makes you feel better. Cheers mate 🥂
If you can't draw a line between lack of refrigeration and high temperature spikes being an issue, I struggle to believe you even know what refrigeration means.
You seem to lack basic reading comprehension.
Why wouldn't climate change happen if they had refrigerators?