Congrats!! Sounds like you should share a few resources or some of your learnings with us. Can you perhaps provide a bullet point summary of the color workflow as footage travels through Resolve (or other software) from input to output? Or any other insight would be much appreciated. I kinda sorta understand it, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!!
Just updated my sources on the main post.
Well, I only knew the software that I use. If I'm working with real footage I import it in After Effects, then I change from 8 bits to 32 bits color depth and change the color space to ACEScg (I have the OpenColorIO plugin for After Effects installed). Interpret Footage to enable preserve RGB. Then make a composition, apply the OpenColorIO converter on it, input "the camera used or most close one" output "ACEScg", then a composition layer with the same converter but input "ACEScg" output "Rec.709 (if it's for a TV), sRGB (for online display), so on). In between the video and the composition layer I add another layer with the color correction. Voilá, ACES workflow in a nutshell.
If I'm working with CGI (Blender, in this case), I set up color space to ACEScg and RAW export, then import it in after effect and ONLY add the compositing layer with the OpenColorIO converter input "ACEScg" output "whatever is the final format". Is the same, but you don't have to convert the video to ACEScg because blender already did it for me.
For DaVinci: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uaMeGu-hw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uaMeGu-hw)
In 1:04 you choose the IDT (Input Device Transform) and ODT (Output Device Transform), if you only use ONE camera you can set it in the project settings, if you are using MULTIPLE cameras, you should leave it in "No IDT" and set the IDT in every single video footage according to the camera.
I know this is 3 years old, but thank you! I use Blender daily and just installed ACES to start working with a professional pipeline, and I’m going to start working on editing some animations in Resolve so this is amazing information.
AgX has a really great look so far, but I don't know much about it other than some experimenting. I like what I see so far though. Definitely cleaner and nicer than Filmic. But I'm on that ACES high right now haha
Wrong! 32 bit in AE will allow brighter values than full white. So you can work in high dynamic range. It’s one of the keys to correctly using LOG gammas with modern cameras.
Check this article to learn about it:
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/oconnell_pete/cineon.php
So that effects can losslessly bring whites above full white value and bring them back down properly too. It's a change you should always make when working with any effect that changes color values.
It’s not about crazy glows, but about the material you’re working on. As the article explains, this is mostly for cinema and high end projects. So your requirements may vary.
Check out the Open Color IO plugin. It’s a color management plugin that will give you an ACES workflow that is transparent to collaborating with multiple applications. Including After Effects.
https://opencolorio.org
Hi there,
Great job man! I'm in almost the same situation as you are and were in! At my university they didn't teach Color Management and current workflows either, so I just started to learn it on my own, too!
I do unerstand the general ACES concept as well as the workflow when you are inside of one specific application, just as you described - There is even a very good hands on article about theory & practically use of ACES [on this blog](https://blog.frame.io/2019/09/09/aces/), that I can recommend.
**I have still several questions left:**
1) Do you know how to proceed exactly (in terms of configuration/export formats and settings), if you want to move footage from one application to another? In one example case I may want to first clean up and correct the footage in DaVinci and then -> comp/do Motion Design with it in After Effects & rendering different Comps out -> then going back to DaVinci for final Editing & Grading.
2) Is OpenEXR the only way to get Digital Intermediates working in ACES? Or is it, e.g possible to use DNxHR to reduce the needed storage space, when exporting between applications.
3) Is there a use-case / workflow for also ACES-color manage still images, e.g taken with an DSLR?
// Actually got some more questions, but I'm gonna leave you with that. Would be great if any of you could share some more insights.
Thanks so much!
Hey.
1. What I would do is import the footage in DaVinci and colour correct it there. Then, export a proxy (low quality version) of the footage to use in After Effects only as a guide. Then, do motion graphics in after effects using NOT ACES but ACEScg (when using Computer Generated images is better to use ACEScg), and export the motion graphics without the proxy video, only the motion graphics, and compose it in DaVinci.
But, let's say you really want and need to work with the video in After Effects after DaVinci. You have to set up DaVinci in a way where the export color space is ACES (is possible, instead of choosing sRBG or the usual color space, you can choose ACES), and when you import it in After Effects you only need to put the input colour space in ACES, and the output colour space in sRBG or the colour space of your choosing.
2. I don't know all the codecs that could be used, so as a rule of thumb only use lossless compression codecs that support 16 and 32 colour depth. DNxHR, is a lossy codec with 12-bit at the best quality, so it can only be used to export the final result. But, using OpenEXR or another codec, if is lossless and 32 bits, it will have a very similar file size.
3. Of course, in fact in 3D rendering we use, instead of videos, image sequences, is the same workflow. Also, there is a plugin for Photoshop to work with ACES. http://fnordware.blogspot.com/2017/02/opencolorio-for-photoshop.html?m=1
I'm not an expert on this, so it would be better if you ask this in the ACES forum where experts could answer you.
Hi there,
great - thanks for the lenghty answer!
Making more sense to me now.
I find it very weird how unintuitive it is in After effects to work with ACES compared to other tools btw, but anyways thanks again.
Will definetly also ask some of these / follow up questions in the ACES forum, as you proposed.
Do you always work with this color pipeline now? Or do you find it to be "overkill" for some projects?
I always used premiere and after effects, since I learn about ACES I changed to DaVinci and only use After Effects for motion graphics because is what you say, is horrible using ACES in Adobe software.
Now I always use it, but mostly because in 3D ACEScg is perfect for glare effects, where the white values must overcome the usual values. And with real footage is only using the input and output correctly, so is not much work and it gives you better colour correction using a "linear space" (linear is not a colour space, but you know what u mean with this).
Thanks for sharing!! I work as a junior colorist and unfortunately no one has explained this to me yet.. so I will definitely read those sources of yours. Thanks again. And congrats on the progress!
Hey, I realize this thread is 4 months old, but I recently just went through the same life journey as OP, and it's nice to have a place to talk about it.
u/Migui2611, thank you so much for those linked resources. In all my research I never came across those, and I wish I had! Haha, better late then never, I suppose...
Haha, well, glad to hear that they are useful. And glad to hear that more people are interesting in this, color management is as important as knowing how to use codecs, in my college people don't know how to use neither and the results suffer because of it.
If I understand ACES correctly, it's best used when you're grading projects for theatrical distribution—specifically for theaters that have laser projection and can display the ACES gamut correctly.
I am I wrong? I haven't quite gotten into learned about ACES quite yet and asking dumb questions helps me get a start.
Well, not only for that, ACES let you color grade based on the scene data and not the display data.
Let me find you a link that explains that.
Edit: Here it is: https://www.toodee.de/?page_id=1021
No theater projector is going to display the ACES gamut. Theater projectors use the colorspace "DCI-P3." ACES is pretty much only used as a "working space," and after you're done with your effects or color adjustments, you output from ACES to a display gamut (like DCI-P3, or rec709, or sRGB, etc.).
Actually, there are 2 main purposes for the ACES colorspace:
1. Get footage from different camera brands and models to look the same
2. Archival (The ACES gamut is so wide, it can store your footage in such a way that none of the extra color information is lost, essentially "future-proofing" the footage for when technological advancements eventually bring us displays with wider gamuts.)
If your project only has footage from one type of camera, ACES would probably be overkill. A simple non-ACES color-managed workflow (using linear light for CG) would be sufficient.
Congrats!! Sounds like you should share a few resources or some of your learnings with us. Can you perhaps provide a bullet point summary of the color workflow as footage travels through Resolve (or other software) from input to output? Or any other insight would be much appreciated. I kinda sorta understand it, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!!
Just updated my sources on the main post. Well, I only knew the software that I use. If I'm working with real footage I import it in After Effects, then I change from 8 bits to 32 bits color depth and change the color space to ACEScg (I have the OpenColorIO plugin for After Effects installed). Interpret Footage to enable preserve RGB. Then make a composition, apply the OpenColorIO converter on it, input "the camera used or most close one" output "ACEScg", then a composition layer with the same converter but input "ACEScg" output "Rec.709 (if it's for a TV), sRGB (for online display), so on). In between the video and the composition layer I add another layer with the color correction. Voilá, ACES workflow in a nutshell. If I'm working with CGI (Blender, in this case), I set up color space to ACEScg and RAW export, then import it in after effect and ONLY add the compositing layer with the OpenColorIO converter input "ACEScg" output "whatever is the final format". Is the same, but you don't have to convert the video to ACEScg because blender already did it for me. For DaVinci: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uaMeGu-hw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uaMeGu-hw) In 1:04 you choose the IDT (Input Device Transform) and ODT (Output Device Transform), if you only use ONE camera you can set it in the project settings, if you are using MULTIPLE cameras, you should leave it in "No IDT" and set the IDT in every single video footage according to the camera.
Epic. Thanks. I do exactly this in Resolve. Rest is new to me.
You're welcome, any questions just ask or HMU.
I know this is 3 years old, but thank you! I use Blender daily and just installed ACES to start working with a professional pipeline, and I’m going to start working on editing some animations in Resolve so this is amazing information.
Nice to hear! Currently I'm interested in the AgX transform in blender. But lets see how it performs.
AgX has a really great look so far, but I don't know much about it other than some experimenting. I like what I see so far though. Definitely cleaner and nicer than Filmic. But I'm on that ACES high right now haha
32bpc isn’t really going to do much for you, just do 16 in AE
Wrong! 32 bit in AE will allow brighter values than full white. So you can work in high dynamic range. It’s one of the keys to correctly using LOG gammas with modern cameras. Check this article to learn about it: https://library.creativecow.net/articles/oconnell_pete/cineon.php
I know that, but unless your compositing with crazy glow why do you need values brighter than full white?
So that effects can losslessly bring whites above full white value and bring them back down properly too. It's a change you should always make when working with any effect that changes color values.
It’s not about crazy glows, but about the material you’re working on. As the article explains, this is mostly for cinema and high end projects. So your requirements may vary.
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This is hilarious, haha, how did it decide where the name ended
Check out the Open Color IO plugin. It’s a color management plugin that will give you an ACES workflow that is transparent to collaborating with multiple applications. Including After Effects. https://opencolorio.org
Yeah, I already use it. In blender too (it has OCIO support). Thanks anyways!!! I could have totally missed it so is very appreciated.
Hi there, Great job man! I'm in almost the same situation as you are and were in! At my university they didn't teach Color Management and current workflows either, so I just started to learn it on my own, too! I do unerstand the general ACES concept as well as the workflow when you are inside of one specific application, just as you described - There is even a very good hands on article about theory & practically use of ACES [on this blog](https://blog.frame.io/2019/09/09/aces/), that I can recommend. **I have still several questions left:** 1) Do you know how to proceed exactly (in terms of configuration/export formats and settings), if you want to move footage from one application to another? In one example case I may want to first clean up and correct the footage in DaVinci and then -> comp/do Motion Design with it in After Effects & rendering different Comps out -> then going back to DaVinci for final Editing & Grading. 2) Is OpenEXR the only way to get Digital Intermediates working in ACES? Or is it, e.g possible to use DNxHR to reduce the needed storage space, when exporting between applications. 3) Is there a use-case / workflow for also ACES-color manage still images, e.g taken with an DSLR? // Actually got some more questions, but I'm gonna leave you with that. Would be great if any of you could share some more insights. Thanks so much!
Hey. 1. What I would do is import the footage in DaVinci and colour correct it there. Then, export a proxy (low quality version) of the footage to use in After Effects only as a guide. Then, do motion graphics in after effects using NOT ACES but ACEScg (when using Computer Generated images is better to use ACEScg), and export the motion graphics without the proxy video, only the motion graphics, and compose it in DaVinci. But, let's say you really want and need to work with the video in After Effects after DaVinci. You have to set up DaVinci in a way where the export color space is ACES (is possible, instead of choosing sRBG or the usual color space, you can choose ACES), and when you import it in After Effects you only need to put the input colour space in ACES, and the output colour space in sRBG or the colour space of your choosing. 2. I don't know all the codecs that could be used, so as a rule of thumb only use lossless compression codecs that support 16 and 32 colour depth. DNxHR, is a lossy codec with 12-bit at the best quality, so it can only be used to export the final result. But, using OpenEXR or another codec, if is lossless and 32 bits, it will have a very similar file size. 3. Of course, in fact in 3D rendering we use, instead of videos, image sequences, is the same workflow. Also, there is a plugin for Photoshop to work with ACES. http://fnordware.blogspot.com/2017/02/opencolorio-for-photoshop.html?m=1 I'm not an expert on this, so it would be better if you ask this in the ACES forum where experts could answer you.
Hi there, great - thanks for the lenghty answer! Making more sense to me now. I find it very weird how unintuitive it is in After effects to work with ACES compared to other tools btw, but anyways thanks again. Will definetly also ask some of these / follow up questions in the ACES forum, as you proposed. Do you always work with this color pipeline now? Or do you find it to be "overkill" for some projects?
I always used premiere and after effects, since I learn about ACES I changed to DaVinci and only use After Effects for motion graphics because is what you say, is horrible using ACES in Adobe software. Now I always use it, but mostly because in 3D ACEScg is perfect for glare effects, where the white values must overcome the usual values. And with real footage is only using the input and output correctly, so is not much work and it gives you better colour correction using a "linear space" (linear is not a colour space, but you know what u mean with this).
Here's a relevant tutorial for managing color in After effects - also OCIO and ACES. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHY5rMnBUz8
Thanks for sharing!! I work as a junior colorist and unfortunately no one has explained this to me yet.. so I will definitely read those sources of yours. Thanks again. And congrats on the progress!
Hey, I realize this thread is 4 months old, but I recently just went through the same life journey as OP, and it's nice to have a place to talk about it. u/Migui2611, thank you so much for those linked resources. In all my research I never came across those, and I wish I had! Haha, better late then never, I suppose...
Haha, well, glad to hear that they are useful. And glad to hear that more people are interesting in this, color management is as important as knowing how to use codecs, in my college people don't know how to use neither and the results suffer because of it.
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Hello, Currently I no longer use after effects, I changed completely to DaVinci Resolve. However, I'm glad to help you with anything I can, just ask!
If I understand ACES correctly, it's best used when you're grading projects for theatrical distribution—specifically for theaters that have laser projection and can display the ACES gamut correctly. I am I wrong? I haven't quite gotten into learned about ACES quite yet and asking dumb questions helps me get a start.
Well, not only for that, ACES let you color grade based on the scene data and not the display data. Let me find you a link that explains that. Edit: Here it is: https://www.toodee.de/?page_id=1021
No theater projector is going to display the ACES gamut. Theater projectors use the colorspace "DCI-P3." ACES is pretty much only used as a "working space," and after you're done with your effects or color adjustments, you output from ACES to a display gamut (like DCI-P3, or rec709, or sRGB, etc.). Actually, there are 2 main purposes for the ACES colorspace: 1. Get footage from different camera brands and models to look the same 2. Archival (The ACES gamut is so wide, it can store your footage in such a way that none of the extra color information is lost, essentially "future-proofing" the footage for when technological advancements eventually bring us displays with wider gamuts.) If your project only has footage from one type of camera, ACES would probably be overkill. A simple non-ACES color-managed workflow (using linear light for CG) would be sufficient.