The potential here is amazing. The Justice League Unlimited episode focused on him is a perfect pitch to make a comedy series.
Mega event in the background, dude is trying to get laid while helping citizens escape the carnage.
Season 1 Episode 7 The Greatest Episode Never Told
Everyone is fighting Mordru and Booster does crowd control and gets into a bigger threat with a scientist chick whose experiment is the whole mess they need to stop from ending existence. And he does this while whining and trying to hit on the scientist. Skeet is good comic relief, sounded like Fry which was awesome.
That doesn’t necessarily mean Mangold is directing however. I want him to, but him tweeting a picture could mean he’s a producer or a writer on it as well. Mangold doesn’t just direct movies he’s also written and produced.
But only time will tell. Here’s hoping you’re right however and he is directing. Logan was a masterpiece 😊
tbh James Gunn is the perfect guy to oversee a Booster Gold project, he has mastered the art of making comedic characters not become the joke themselves and instead make them complex emotional characters
While I do agree with you, one exception may be Drax. Ifeel like he was reduced to a punchline and seeing his character get more development in the GotG game was nice. Although this may be a symptom of the MCU more than a Gunn thing though.
I've been on the fence, trying not to get my hopes up too much, for a Gunn led DC. But when I saw Swamp Thing in the press release and the horror film description used, I lost some of that cool, lol. Me and Swamp Thing have a relationship, and like Gunn said in the OPs title quote, I want to see different genres, especially horror, not get their edges blunted by a paint-by-number approach.
God, I hope they don't fuck up Constantine 2. Though I honestly don't like Reeves as the titular character, everything else about it was supernatural horror. The show had a much better Constantine, but they did the same thing they did with Lucifer, made it into a buddy (but also long term romantic partner after many seasons of will they won't they tension build up) cop procedural (because everything for awhile had to be a cop procedural drama).
WBD could always screw things up, but Gunn does have a major advantage over the previous DC regimes in that DC has it's own Studio now, and isn't just a couple execs that work within the larger WB Film studio. There are essentially far fewer people who have the authority to step over Gunn and screw things up.
> Gunn does have a major advantage
Also has...
* $168m The Suicide Squad
* $772m Guardians
* $863m Guardians 2
His movies are not only critically good, they also make money
Yup. He'll have one good movie, one disappointment, then the studio will jump down his throat like they always do, ruin the next movie, and go all shocked Pikachu when it flops
I will bet you any money it’s got the fortress and superman uses the key. I think his superman is going to be weird and galactic and colourful. Like, the bases on the moon, star labs, all of it.
No way in hell I'll bet against what I want to see lol
But I wonder if we'll be getting Jon in this movie. It's called "Legacy", it's a hell of a way to differentiate from other Supermen, and it opens the doors for a Super Sons series in the future, since Batman is introducing Damian.
Yeah that’s a point. Getting some LGBT rep in Superman would be no bad idea either. I can just imagine he wants to find the colour and the bright comic pop expressiveness you can get with superman. Very red, very blue, very yellow.
I'm kind of optimistic about Gunn and Safran. They know they will be taking risks. They know it won't always succeed. And they know it's going to involve billions of dollars in investment. That's a ton of pressure on them. Hope they succeed.
I just hope WB lets them struggle a bit. Not every movie is gonna be a major success, but if the execs lose confidence and get involved like they did with Snyder we’ll end up with the same problems we had with those movies. Let Gunn do his thing and this franchise can turn into something huge
>but if the execs lose confidence and get involved
There are no execs above Gunn and Safran anymore. DC is now it's own studio instead of just being a label under WB Pictures. The only one with authority above them is Zaslav.
People really don’t get Gunn’s job. He isn’t just some director or head writer. He is co-CEO of DC Studios. He has pretty much the same job as Kevin Feige
I’m so excited to see what he does with the DCU. The guy has a fantastic track record, Suicide Squad was an AMAZING movie and everything I’ve heard about his plans for the future sound super promising.
I know a lot of people liked Snyder, but I wasn’t one of those people and am very happy to see these properties in more capable hands.
God it feels good not to be alone. I'm seriously not a fan of either the "Snyderverse" for DC or honestly Snyder in general. He really missed the point with both Watchmen and his whole "Everything must be gritty and realistic and most importantly MURKY BROWN' vision for the DCEU.
Sometimes around where I'm at I kinda feel like it is. Most of the people I know irl skew heavily pro-Snyder. Although I'm not completely ANTI-Snyder myself.
The only good thing I can say about the Snyderverse is it had some very visually impressive moments. He has a talent for taking a panel from the comics and bringing it onto the screen in all its glory.
But that’s honestly about it. The plot of every DC movie he has made has been hot garbage, he didn’t put any effort into character development or arcs, and he had no vision whatsoever for where the franchise was going.
I think he would be great for directing and storyboarding certain shots and scenes given his talent for those big and epic visually stunning shots. But he just doesn’t have the chops to be at the helm for that franchise
The Snyder Cut’s best parts were it’s cinematography **and** the intro of Darkseid.
However, even though the scene looked and sounded cool, **it felt hollow**
Canonically, we’ve known these characters for just 3 movies. It lacked the punch when Thanos was introduced for the first time in IW (don’t count GotG).
Yeah, it was better than Jostice league but I still say it didn’t amount to anything
>Canonically, we’ve known these characters for just 3 movies. It lacked the punch when Thanos was introduced for the first time in IW (don’t count GotG).
>
I get what you're saying, but this isn't a good reason (or excuse) for our lack of attachment with the characters. Plenty of films - hell, plenty of 20 minute TV episodes - do a better job of creating well-crafted, interesting, and likeable characters than three Snyder DC movies.
I mean, Thanos was introduced in an Avengers post credit scene and had been lurking in the shadows the entire time. His appearance in Infinity War wouldn’t work if he hadn’t felt like a threat the entire time. I don’t get why you wouldn’t count Guardians
I really struggle to understand why they framed Rorschach as a badass. The guy is a damaged, far right, racist*, bigoted psychopathic hypocrite*.
*He literally called the KKK in his journal saying they may have been cruel **but** acted rationally when they conducted terror on free slaves
*He says he doesn’t judge as an objectivist and cause people parasites when… he harasses couples/prostitutes showing love, and steals beans from people’s fridge
I want to preface this comment by saying I don’t think this is representative of Snyder’s personal views (at least, I have no reason to believe so), BUT…
Snyder’s films have often had protagonists with strong authoritarian/fascist elements. 300 is the prime example, and the treatment of Rorschach is another. I don’t think he does it on purpose because I think he’s essentially following the “rule of cool.” It just so happens that what a lot of people find cool is rooted in hyper-masculine right-wing fantasies. Even superhero movies which often have more progressive messaging will fall back on the same tropes in order to make the good guys look cool and powerful.
As others have said, snyder tends to lack subtlety and nuance so his movies come across as glorifying elements that may be problematic. This can work if it’s done as satire a la Starship Troopers. But that’s not the case in Snyder’s movies.
In the comics it was pretty obvious that Rorschach was basically a human train wreck. Between the script for the movie, and Jackie's amazing performance, he was really made to look like the closest to a noble hero. I blame the writers and directors for leaving out a lot of the scenes that showed what a crap human being he was.
It was mainly because the comic and Moore hated Objectivism, Batman, and Mr.A.
Moore said and I’m gonna paraphrase it really badly, that he basically took Mr.A and Steve Ditko’s views on Objectivism and he basically pointed out how flawed and stupid it was
Snyder thought him breaking into fridges and beating people up is badass. That is just surface level stuff.
I love Ditko's art but daaaaaaamn Mr. A might as well have been Mr. Anvil for how heavy handed he was written. I'm surprised he didn't activate his "powers" by shouting "THE NAME OF AYN!" and exploding from a shower of dollar bills.
He actually wrote a couple ramblings on comic book fandom. And he was honestly **horrified** seeing juveniles congregate discussing their fandom.
[NerdSync did a breakdown on it, and it was basically the ramblings of some 70+ year old guy (when he wrote it was like the early 2000s)](https://youtu.be/Tu9SA3wMNv8)
Plus, I think there was one issue of Mr.A where Ditko bemoans people for just reading for his art and not “seeing the light” to become an objectivist.
The people in front of me in the cinema were 'talkers' and they couldn't work out why the other heroes were so *mean* to Rorschach. Turns out because Zack lacks any sense of nuance or subtlety they couldn't tell the difference between Rorschach beating someone to death, and the other heroes *just* beating people so hard their bones exploded out of their body...
Meh, I've come across way more people who don't really like the Snyderverse but we excited to see some cool screens with their favorite heroes in a terrible story.
I loved suicide squad, one of the few movies in recent years that made me laugh regularly throughout. I thought the followup peacemaker show was pretty good too
Oddly enough the only Snyder movie I vibed with was the Snyder cut. It's so long and weird and intricate and it has a lot of really intense slow motion and weird sequences that I was really fascinated by it. This isn't the experience of most people, I think most people would point to MoS as the best Snyder DC movie but something about the insanity of the Snyder cut and the dedication of seeing that insane vision actually executed did it for me. It was earnest in a way that marvel stuff wasn't.
That being said, I don't really need those movies to continue, and the current Gunn DC slate is also weird and varied in a way that makes me cautiously excited for the future of DC (you know how it is with Warner executives, can never lower your guard).
Somebody in a position of authority learning from the mistakes of others and actually having a plan? Somebody pinch me, ‘cause I must still be dreaming.
I don't know if Gunn can withstand WB's dedication to ruining their own films, but I absolutely think Gunn's take on DC characters is rooted in a deep understanding and appreciation of all the things given their character's fandoms in the first place. He also know's the marvel formula on a detailed level.
I might not agree with every choice he makes, but I'll know he's not going to shoot Jimmy Olsen in the face for fun or make Superman Libertarian Jesus.
I don't think that will be a problem. He is the head of the studio, and so he answers only to Zaslav. And if Zaslav tries to muck things up, Gunn would probably leave the studio.
Really like the last line of that headline.
>You need to tell stories that don’t just pretend to be different genres, but actually are different genres.
It's one thing to say that and another to execute it though, so I hope they do. It's pretty interesting timing for this whole DCU reboot thing given that a lot of people (myself included) are tiring of the MCU. If they do it well it could be pretty huge.
Okay, sure. But can we get another genre of post besides James Gunn quote?
Could the next one at least print the quote on Nightwing’s ass or something?
I just hope the "genres" don't over shadow being a piece in a scifi/fantasy universe. The "gritty realism" Batmans turn out to be a guy in horned tactical gear taking shots to the chest like Robocop and ultimately are crime stories (not bad ones) that is pretty much centered around mundane serial killers and gang lords. Please allow improbable fighting skills, mud monsters, and dudes to shoot ice rays.
I read the OP and immediately thought.... "Like Marvel phase 2?"
Ill admit I was irked by the way he worded the comment about not just pretending to be other genres, because I agree with your point that the appeal of a comic book movie is the IP it comes from. If you dont want comic movies to feel like comic movies... dont do comic movies? Write new IP. Otherwise Im going to Batman wanting bat shaped boomerangs and rocket powered cars and a cape that turns into a glider.
I mean wtf even constitutes a comic book flick huh? Is Ghost World not a comic book movie? Is Road to Perdition not a comic book movie? Comic books are a medium for diverse storytelling, they are not in and of itself a genre.
You act like there’s no diversity in comic books. We have horror in our superhero stories, sword and sorcery fantasy, murder/mystery thrillers, etc. There’s so much more diversity in the comics than in the movies. The MCU keeps pitching us cross-genre movies, but their approach to genre is so brief and superficial, it’s like someone rebranding themselves as goth by putting on a black T-shirt.
A long time ago, between the first two GOTG movies, he did a Q&A on Facebook. I asked him if there were any genres he hadn't done yet that he was interested in, he replied, "Westerns and musicals". I keep my fingers crossed that he'll get to do at least one of each.
The problem I'm finding with writing these sort of stories is that a lot of people either GET their morality from their entertainment, or think that all entertainment is propaganda for some agenda, rather than simply letting it be a part of a fictional story.
I think his track record shows he does both.
He (co-)wrote Guardians of the Galaxy, and directed it. Wrote and directed Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, the Holiday Special, and Vol. 3. He also wrote and directed The Suicide Squad and Peaceamaker.
As of right now, according to him, he's already written [Creature Commandos](https://collider.com/creature-commandos-series-image-dcu-james-gunn/), he's outlined either the story or pre-treatment for [The Authority](https://collider.com/james-gunn-writing-directing-dcu/), he's knee-deep in writing Superman: Legacy and might direct it, he's still overseeing the editing process for Guardians Vol. 3 as we speak, and he and Mr. Safran just spent less than four months since their hire was officially announced in [October](https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1587548911551381504) to outline 10+ projects and start organizing talent and directors, what else do you want from the man lol.
I’m well aware of the resume of everyone involved. I’d argue Gunn is untested as a studio head. I hope he steps out of the spotlight a bit as productions ramp up.
Reading the article it sounds like these are still quotes from the press conference they did. So it's Variety milking it to get more clicks for what's basically the same story.
I’m certain WB is pushing hard for him to win back goodwill. As much as everything he’s saying is awesome and exactly what I wanted to hear, I’m sure it’s passed muster with the execs before he says it.
Yeah, I like gunn, hes got a good track record as a director, but running a whole division is a different animal, and hes talking a lot shit for someone who just got the job.
And as someone just posted his track record people point to are very similar style/premises. I have to *see* something before I buy in entirely. I liked his work but this isnt a matter of just handling one small team
Yeah he's really good at writing & directing ensembles of quippy, loveable, violent sociopaths. That's great and I love when he does it, but that alone is not enough to completely turn the DCEU around.
Well they're basically in press tour mode now and the outlets will continue to milk quotes for the next couple weeks even if he doesnt say anything new after today. I don't think he's doing too much, but it's just the way the pop culture news market works that you will continue to hear about every little thing he says long after he's said it, with the outlets finding a way to make an article out of every throwaway statement.
It will die down eventually.
But on the other hand Gunn is a very accessible person and active on twitter so there will always be new quotes to milk. It's not necessarily a bad thing but could backfire when any of the projects aren't well received
I appreciate that part about not just pretending to be different genres. It's not good enough to take a few aspects from horror, war, or heist movies, but then keep pretty much everything else that's in most superhero movies.
That comment kinda irks because marvel was the first to push their superhero movies (debatable how far) into different genres just like the comics. DC is still struggling to create a single excellent superhero movie aside from Batman. And even though I like Gunn, he has yet to do anything that’s not infused with goofy comedy, so coming from him that irks me further. Now excuse me, I have some clouds to yell at….
We'll see how audiences react to a truly non-superhero superhero film though. Sounds awesome to me but will be interesting to see if it gets as much traction with general audiences as more standard fare
They definitely need to pick the right mix of characters and genres. Like Swamp Thing would probably benefit a lot from being a horror movie. Of course, that's not to say I don't think there aren't new things to do with a superhero movie that's just trying to be that.
Fun fact, the old golden age marvel Western comics characters (Rawhide Kid, Phantom Rider, Two Gun Kid, Gunhawk, etc) canonically existed in the main marvel universe, and even occasionally (via time travel shenanigans) interested with modern heros.
Ant man gets so small he slips through time and has a child in the old west with natural shrinking powers, who's on the run from a gang of bandits after foiling their train robbery.
This Thanksgiving, Paul Rudd with deaging cg is... VarmAnt.
If Warner Brothers studio execs can keep their dicks out of the creative process for these films, we might actually end up with something worth watching.
I have a ton of faith in James Gunn, but I have zero faith in the higher ups at WB that they will let him work unimpeded.
The Supergirl movie looks to be based on the Woman of Tomorrow comic which is basically True Grit in space (and it is terrific). I am always on board for space westerns.
Good point but maybe slightly different. Suicide Squad was more of a zombie invasion, where those affected acted like zombies and it was evidentially clear what was happening.
Peacemaker was more like a “Secret Invasion” story where you didn’t know who to trust and there was an argument to be made that some of the aliens actually could be trusted.
I mean The Batman was basically good guy vs bad guy. Cinematically it was beautiful. The acting was great and I think the story had a lot of depth. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel but you have to follow through and deliver.
MCU started falling into a bad habit of just writing jokes. Jokes are ok but viewers ultimately want stakes. I strongly believe Quantumania will deliver this. They’ve been previewing the stakes pretty well. Does Kang escape? Can Lang stop him? If he doesn’t, what is Kang capable of and who will be destroyed when they stand in his way?
Ouch that was pointed as that's basically the Marvel playbook. I'm optimistic (because I mean the bar is set pretty low currently) for what he plans to do with DC.
Well I think the idea is to have other people write and bring their unique sensibilities to the stories themselves, while still following an overall direction. Which is ostensibly what the MCU does, but he wants to push more in the direction of giving them even more creative leeway
Sure, but Superman is Superman.
You have to tell the story of an alien who arrived illegally in the U.S. and has made it his home despite being hated for being different and not American.
Supes is symbol for immigrants, the LGBTQ crowd and poor people all over the U.S and the world and we can't turn him into something like Peter Quill, a joking idiot who can't be taken seriously.
CBM Fans:
"Actually DOOD, that's not gonna work for me brother!"
Let's be honest, most comic book fans don't care if these movies are 1:1 as long as they aren't literally watching the same film over and over again. I don't say that as a knock or anything, but this audience likes what it likes. Most times, the CBM's that try to be different wind up under performing.
Yea people complaining about giant battles at the end but do people who go to superhero movies want to get to the end and _not_ have a badass fight scene?
Of course there are ways to do it to where it feels creatively fresh and resonates with the characters and their journey, but not having it all will probably disappoint/annoy a lot of people. I guess we'll see
i honestly don’t need a massive fight scene finish
but i’m aware that many casual fans will get super upset when there isn’t one, or if it gets weird or meta
but personally i fuckin love weird
…On the one hand, I can see how this philosophy could do really good with the right characters.
However, I think generally just having something focused on strictly being heroic can be good. Take the first Iron Man movie, doesn’t have to be all giant monsters and planet killing ships. Could be a hero fighting for what’s right.
Or just fighting for what they see as right. The old JLA show, Or Justice League Unlimited do a really good job of that. Heroic films need to take some inspiration. It doesn’t have to be serious all the time, sometimes you gotta have fun with it.
I would love to see more slice of life, lower stakes movies. Not everything has to be a cosmic threat to everything that is. For me, that's become tiresome and makes it harder to be invested in the characters themselves. Also, Gunn is freaking hot, amiright??
Great news. This will up everyone’s game, and make all the superhero movies and shows better, which he has stated was his goal. It was getting extremely boring, to be honest.
My only concern is that I hope his voice doesn’t dominate everything they put out. He’s made good stuff, but he has some tendencies that I wouldn’t want to see replicated in every movie (I’m not always the biggest fan of his sense of humor).
But if he’s true to his word here, that won’t be an issue. He seems like he’s really got his eye on the ball.
I'm definitely in the minority of people that think this way, but I don't think all these films need to be or should be rated R. You can certainly have some R rated content and even build towards some darker stories, but I think one thing that DC is missing right now is that their movies are only aimed at adults. The kids should also be growing up with these heroes too. And while this may sound like, "Marvel did it this way..." I think we can all agree that there is a level of success in that they made their movies approachable for all ages without sacrificing areas of darkness at the same time.
While I find his movies to be hit and miss and he's not totally my brand, I like that this doesn't sound like a blind aping of the Marvel system. It's it's own cohesive vision, all under one roof, with one creative team at the helm. So we'll see how it turns out. I'm not super jazzed about everything that he's mentioned but I'm willing to give it a chance. Which is good because as things stood, the DCU wasn't going to get another dollar out of me.
I disagree, I think people still want the good guy bad guy trope but having humanized heroes who achieve great things is to me, fun to watch (Batman). Throw in comedy with enough drama to make it interesting is the winning combo, I think. You can tweak the formula for more comedy and get guardians or just a splash of comedy and get iron man. Making it all dark an just focusing on moral quandary is the reason I didn’t like breaking bad. Again just my opinion.
The biggest mistake DC has made to date is trying to make Superman dark and gritty and then trying to make Batman darker and grittier to compensate.
I really hope we get a brighter, less morally ambiguous Supes this time around. That's just me, though.
> You can’t be telling the same ‘good guy, bad guy, giant thing in the sky, good guys win’ story again
I guarantee that there will be three such movies that hit it big in the box office in the next 5 years. Humans aren't done with our archetypal stories.
> You need to tell stories that are more morally complex.
You can, and Gunn generally does. That's a popular sort of story right now, but there are others. *Avatar: The Way of Water* was very much a traditional good guys vs. bad guys with almost no moral ambiguity to the main characters, and it did really well.
*Thor: Love and Thunder* was a straightforward "overcome your limitations in order to prevail against evil" sort of story at its heart, and then lots of zaniness layered over it.
Gunn is over-generalizing here. The grimdark thing isn't universal and it's not the only story people want to be exposed to. It's popular to be sure, and if that's the way he wants to go, it will probably do well, but it does leave an opening for the next Superman (1978), The Avengers, Spider-Man, etc.
Yeah but Avatar at least started to humanize its bad guys. The things they're doing are bad, but it feels like they have interesting reasons for doing them.
Love and Thunder's message was definitely a 'love must triumph over hate' type story, but that's different than what he laid out.
Neither movie blew me away but I did at least feel like they were trying something original.
What he said was, "you can't be telling the same 'good guy, bad guy... good guys win' story again." I think that's pretty obviously false on the evidence we've seen.
Yes, you might find reasons that's true in this or that case. You might find a villain that's a bit more nuanced than Lex Luthor in Superman or the machines in The Matrix. But ultimately, good vs. evil is still a fundamentally human story that we're going to tell again and again in both relatively pure and highly nuanced ways, whether Gunn thinks it's a good idea or not.
In Thor the good guys don't win, the bad guy just has a change of heart. In Avatar, the good guys survive, but I wouldn't exactly call it victory.
I'm not saying I'm sick of good vs. evil stories, I'm saying I want more to the evil than World-Ending MacGuffin used by Very Strong Bad Guy. That's why the 'giant thing in the sky' bit matters.
You can quibble about the details but the bottom line is that the characters in those movies are not morally gray in the way that Gunn's characters tend to be, which is the context we're working with here.
ITT: people who don't understand that WB and DC Studios are two separate things. Either Gunn or Safran, I can't remember which, already said that there'll be no studio interference, because the two of them ARE the studio. (Their words, not mine.)
Funny how the DC films haven't been telling the same "good guy, bad guy, giant thing in the sky, good guys win’ story" and yet here we are.... they're gonna need to focus their films around actual stories people care about with characters people care about. The thing Marvel does best is build on layers of story VS lets shoehorn all kinds of DC heroes into one movie and expect people to know/care about what happens to them. OH and please don't show Bruce Waynes parents getting killed.... it's up there with Uncle Ben.... WE KNOW move on.
That makes sense, since Guardians of the Galaxy was one of the few Marvel films to break the formula.
The formula being:
Hero struggles against an enemy who is just a bigger, badder version of themselves.
Iron Man / Iron Monger
Hulk / Abomination
Iron Man / Whiplash
Thor / Loki
Captain America / Red Skull
Iron Man / Extremis
Thor / Malekith
Captain America / Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy - No real comparison with Ronan the Accuser or the Nova Corps. It was actually refreshing.
Ant Man / Yellowjacket
Civil War: Avengers vs. Avengers.
Doctor Strange / Kaecilius
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - Back to the trope... Star Lord / His Dad (Ego, the Living Planet)
Thor / Hela
Black Panther / Killmonger
Captain Marvel / Yon-Rogg
Black Widow / Taskmaster
Shang-Chi / The (Real) Mandarin
Eternals / Celestials
Doctor Strange / Scarlet Witch
Thor / Gorr
Wakanda / Talokan
I’m far more of a Marvel comics guy than a DC guy. But this is crazy promising. Gunn gets it, IMO. The MCU has doubled down on the black-white formula, to the point where every movie is loud and dumb and predictable.
I’ve walked away from the MCU for now. The awful second Dr. Strange movie was the last MCU movie I’ll see in theatres for a good long while. But now I’m interested in the upcoming DC movies for the first time in ages.
This is brilliant, a man that clearly loves the source material and understands the heroes and what makes them tick. I really hope this is the tunnel out of the Marvel formula, and the even worse big monster fight or hero clone fight in the end of each movie.
Funny thing - I would totally agree if not for a fact that I know that what people usually mean by the "grey area" "complex characters" etc. - glamorisation of degeneracy and moral nihilism.
Which isn't easy considering DC's history with diversity. Sure, they got plenty of black super heroes now. But boy was the twentieth century lacking in anything other than Black Lightning and Black Lightning rip-offs. So many Black Lightning rip-offs.
Diversity doesn't just mean "have a black guy." It also means "have a black guy with a different super power other than [electricity.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsWhxhxuD7s)"
So far there's Midnighter & Apollo on the Authority, Supergirl, the Amazons on Paradise Lost, the cast of Creature Commandos, Jon Stewart on Lanterns, (Amanda) Waller, and if they stick close to the comics Damian Wayne might have some [Arabic/Chinese heritage](https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-connecting-with-his-culture-dc/), I'd say that bodes well, no?
He’s doing waaay too much talking imo. I kinda felt the slate was a little lackluster. Not a single actor or director revealed? It’s still kinda messy too not a 100% reboot. Let’s see what happens.
Yeah they really needed something more than art assets and titles, because right now all of this talk seems like a press tour and a press tour we've heard before from DC.
I dont think people needed them to rush this out, and having directors and cast confirmations would give a better sense about how they are actually gonna deliver on the hype he's talking.
This is the equivalent of what Marvel does at the start of each phase, the details come after:
https://comicbook.com/news/marvel-released-official-marvel-cinematic-universe-phase-3-timel/
I believe they announced Chadwick Boseman (RIP) was Black Panther at the Phase 3 announcement at El Capitan. He was on stage along with RDJ & Chris Evans. They made it an event. I don’t expect all the details but it just came out that Mangold is in talks for Swamp Thing. They couldn’t lock something like that down first then announce?
What's this feeling?
It's a strange sensation... am I having a stroke?
... I don't smell toast, so probably not...
is... can it be?
Is it ... hope?...
a twinge... a spark of...
excitement!?...
FOR DC MOVIES AND TV?!
Sweet Christmas.
I need to lay down... I can't handle this...
If he's planning on making stuff like a horror film starring Swamp Thing or a buddy comedy with Blue Beetle and Booster Gold, then I'm in.
He is making a horror film starring swamp thing
And a Booster Gold comedy series
Damn, that was some quick wish fulfillment
quick wish for more stuff
Green moose guava juice
Large fries, chocolate shake!
Obtuse, rubber goose
Striped ties, Josh and Drake!
[удалено]
And Grizzly Adams did have a beard.
The potential here is amazing. The Justice League Unlimited episode focused on him is a perfect pitch to make a comedy series. Mega event in the background, dude is trying to get laid while helping citizens escape the carnage.
Wasn’t that episode about Green Lantern?
Green Lantern, help! My ants are up there!
Season 1 Episode 7 The Greatest Episode Never Told Everyone is fighting Mordru and Booster does crowd control and gets into a bigger threat with a scientist chick whose experiment is the whole mess they need to stop from ending existence. And he does this while whining and trying to hit on the scientist. Skeet is good comic relief, sounded like Fry which was awesome.
It’s a reference to everyone calling him Green Lantern in that episode
I really hope that series includes Ted, he needs representation.
And a Amanda Waller work place comedy.
Directed by James Mangold
Rumored to be in talks, not confirmed yet
I mean James Mangold himself tweeted a picture of Swamp Thing and James Gunn retweeted it. Might as well be confirmed at this point
Scott Derekson also replied to it with the 👀 emojis. I think everyone’s just shooting their shot
Might as well be confirmed doesn't not mean officially confirmed
That doesn’t necessarily mean Mangold is directing however. I want him to, but him tweeting a picture could mean he’s a producer or a writer on it as well. Mangold doesn’t just direct movies he’s also written and produced. But only time will tell. Here’s hoping you’re right however and he is directing. Logan was a masterpiece 😊
I liked the recent show
Relevant username
tbh James Gunn is the perfect guy to oversee a Booster Gold project, he has mastered the art of making comedic characters not become the joke themselves and instead make them complex emotional characters
While I do agree with you, one exception may be Drax. Ifeel like he was reduced to a punchline and seeing his character get more development in the GotG game was nice. Although this may be a symptom of the MCU more than a Gunn thing though.
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That's kinda what the HBO Spawn was.
I've been on the fence, trying not to get my hopes up too much, for a Gunn led DC. But when I saw Swamp Thing in the press release and the horror film description used, I lost some of that cool, lol. Me and Swamp Thing have a relationship, and like Gunn said in the OPs title quote, I want to see different genres, especially horror, not get their edges blunted by a paint-by-number approach. God, I hope they don't fuck up Constantine 2. Though I honestly don't like Reeves as the titular character, everything else about it was supernatural horror. The show had a much better Constantine, but they did the same thing they did with Lucifer, made it into a buddy (but also long term romantic partner after many seasons of will they won't they tension build up) cop procedural (because everything for awhile had to be a cop procedural drama).
I hope things work out for this plan. Gunn seems to be willing, but will WB let him do his job?
WBD could always screw things up, but Gunn does have a major advantage over the previous DC regimes in that DC has it's own Studio now, and isn't just a couple execs that work within the larger WB Film studio. There are essentially far fewer people who have the authority to step over Gunn and screw things up.
This needs to be higher up because I don't think people realize that Gunn and Safran now answer exclusively to Zaslav, no other execs.
> Gunn does have a major advantage Also has... * $168m The Suicide Squad * $772m Guardians * $863m Guardians 2 His movies are not only critically good, they also make money
They will until he has a bomb.
Yup. He'll have one good movie, one disappointment, then the studio will jump down his throat like they always do, ruin the next movie, and go all shocked Pikachu when it flops
"Hollywood can't help but stick their dick in it."
Don't stick your dick in it, it's already fucked enough.
The suicide squad was meh for me. Better than the first by a lot though. And the peacemaker show was great so hopefully they let him do his thing
He also is using one of the writers from Doom Patrol I saw this morning. It seems like he wants to keep talent? Seems like it anyway.
As longe as he gets a chance to bomb on his own.
Next DC movie still ends with a giant sky beam I’ll bet.
Let me be clear. A sky beam shoots from the ground *up*. *This* beam shoots from the sky *down*. As different as a bird and a mole.
His first one is supposed to be *Superman: Legacy*, which pretty much invites sky beams by having a flying protagonist.
I will bet you any money it’s got the fortress and superman uses the key. I think his superman is going to be weird and galactic and colourful. Like, the bases on the moon, star labs, all of it.
No way in hell I'll bet against what I want to see lol But I wonder if we'll be getting Jon in this movie. It's called "Legacy", it's a hell of a way to differentiate from other Supermen, and it opens the doors for a Super Sons series in the future, since Batman is introducing Damian.
Yeah that’s a point. Getting some LGBT rep in Superman would be no bad idea either. I can just imagine he wants to find the colour and the bright comic pop expressiveness you can get with superman. Very red, very blue, very yellow.
You mean the ones made before he got the job?
It says in the article that WB CEO has a lot of trust in him and his abilities
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This is what I want to hear. Now, get David Lynch to direct Animal Man!
OMG YES.
I'm kind of optimistic about Gunn and Safran. They know they will be taking risks. They know it won't always succeed. And they know it's going to involve billions of dollars in investment. That's a ton of pressure on them. Hope they succeed.
I just hope WB lets them struggle a bit. Not every movie is gonna be a major success, but if the execs lose confidence and get involved like they did with Snyder we’ll end up with the same problems we had with those movies. Let Gunn do his thing and this franchise can turn into something huge
>but if the execs lose confidence and get involved There are no execs above Gunn and Safran anymore. DC is now it's own studio instead of just being a label under WB Pictures. The only one with authority above them is Zaslav.
People really don’t get Gunn’s job. He isn’t just some director or head writer. He is co-CEO of DC Studios. He has pretty much the same job as Kevin Feige
Gun is going to make some crazy shit. Can’t wait.
“I’m gonna make some weird shit” Peter from Guardians 2 I think
I’m so excited to see what he does with the DCU. The guy has a fantastic track record, Suicide Squad was an AMAZING movie and everything I’ve heard about his plans for the future sound super promising. I know a lot of people liked Snyder, but I wasn’t one of those people and am very happy to see these properties in more capable hands.
God it feels good not to be alone. I'm seriously not a fan of either the "Snyderverse" for DC or honestly Snyder in general. He really missed the point with both Watchmen and his whole "Everything must be gritty and realistic and most importantly MURKY BROWN' vision for the DCEU.
I mean, not liking Snyder's work isn't exactly some radical view. His ratio of fans to non-fans is, at best, 50/50
True, but his followers are pretty LOUD.
Sometimes around where I'm at I kinda feel like it is. Most of the people I know irl skew heavily pro-Snyder. Although I'm not completely ANTI-Snyder myself.
The only good thing I can say about the Snyderverse is it had some very visually impressive moments. He has a talent for taking a panel from the comics and bringing it onto the screen in all its glory. But that’s honestly about it. The plot of every DC movie he has made has been hot garbage, he didn’t put any effort into character development or arcs, and he had no vision whatsoever for where the franchise was going. I think he would be great for directing and storyboarding certain shots and scenes given his talent for those big and epic visually stunning shots. But he just doesn’t have the chops to be at the helm for that franchise
The Snyder Cut’s best parts were it’s cinematography **and** the intro of Darkseid. However, even though the scene looked and sounded cool, **it felt hollow** Canonically, we’ve known these characters for just 3 movies. It lacked the punch when Thanos was introduced for the first time in IW (don’t count GotG). Yeah, it was better than Jostice league but I still say it didn’t amount to anything
The flash saving Iris was also really well done too
>Canonically, we’ve known these characters for just 3 movies. It lacked the punch when Thanos was introduced for the first time in IW (don’t count GotG). > I get what you're saying, but this isn't a good reason (or excuse) for our lack of attachment with the characters. Plenty of films - hell, plenty of 20 minute TV episodes - do a better job of creating well-crafted, interesting, and likeable characters than three Snyder DC movies.
I mean, Thanos was introduced in an Avengers post credit scene and had been lurking in the shadows the entire time. His appearance in Infinity War wouldn’t work if he hadn’t felt like a threat the entire time. I don’t get why you wouldn’t count Guardians
I’ll never forgive him for Batman vs Superman lol. Gotta be one of the worst movies I’ve watched.
Truly a brutal flick
#MARTHA… I swear, I watched that in the theater, and I remember just sinking into my seat at that scene and having the theater break out in laughter.
yeah, it often felt like he didn’t really get the central characters and their themes
His Batman and Superman have higher body counts than the villains in the movies.
Snyder killed it with 300 then just coasted on that success
tbh even that was surface af
I felt like I was growing stupider by the minute while watching 300.
That’s Frank Miller for you.
That’s 300 **in a nutshell**
I really struggle to understand why they framed Rorschach as a badass. The guy is a damaged, far right, racist*, bigoted psychopathic hypocrite*. *He literally called the KKK in his journal saying they may have been cruel **but** acted rationally when they conducted terror on free slaves *He says he doesn’t judge as an objectivist and cause people parasites when… he harasses couples/prostitutes showing love, and steals beans from people’s fridge
I want to preface this comment by saying I don’t think this is representative of Snyder’s personal views (at least, I have no reason to believe so), BUT… Snyder’s films have often had protagonists with strong authoritarian/fascist elements. 300 is the prime example, and the treatment of Rorschach is another. I don’t think he does it on purpose because I think he’s essentially following the “rule of cool.” It just so happens that what a lot of people find cool is rooted in hyper-masculine right-wing fantasies. Even superhero movies which often have more progressive messaging will fall back on the same tropes in order to make the good guys look cool and powerful. As others have said, snyder tends to lack subtlety and nuance so his movies come across as glorifying elements that may be problematic. This can work if it’s done as satire a la Starship Troopers. But that’s not the case in Snyder’s movies.
In the comics it was pretty obvious that Rorschach was basically a human train wreck. Between the script for the movie, and Jackie's amazing performance, he was really made to look like the closest to a noble hero. I blame the writers and directors for leaving out a lot of the scenes that showed what a crap human being he was.
It was mainly because the comic and Moore hated Objectivism, Batman, and Mr.A. Moore said and I’m gonna paraphrase it really badly, that he basically took Mr.A and Steve Ditko’s views on Objectivism and he basically pointed out how flawed and stupid it was Snyder thought him breaking into fridges and beating people up is badass. That is just surface level stuff.
I love Ditko's art but daaaaaaamn Mr. A might as well have been Mr. Anvil for how heavy handed he was written. I'm surprised he didn't activate his "powers" by shouting "THE NAME OF AYN!" and exploding from a shower of dollar bills.
He actually wrote a couple ramblings on comic book fandom. And he was honestly **horrified** seeing juveniles congregate discussing their fandom. [NerdSync did a breakdown on it, and it was basically the ramblings of some 70+ year old guy (when he wrote it was like the early 2000s)](https://youtu.be/Tu9SA3wMNv8) Plus, I think there was one issue of Mr.A where Ditko bemoans people for just reading for his art and not “seeing the light” to become an objectivist.
They see themselves in him enough to ignore a lot of the bad or they see themselves in him including the bad
The people in front of me in the cinema were 'talkers' and they couldn't work out why the other heroes were so *mean* to Rorschach. Turns out because Zack lacks any sense of nuance or subtlety they couldn't tell the difference between Rorschach beating someone to death, and the other heroes *just* beating people so hard their bones exploded out of their body...
Facebook has been a snyderverse circlejerk all week. Good to see others positive on Gunn’s plan.
Meh, I've come across way more people who don't really like the Snyderverse but we excited to see some cool screens with their favorite heroes in a terrible story.
I loved suicide squad, one of the few movies in recent years that made me laugh regularly throughout. I thought the followup peacemaker show was pretty good too
Oddly enough the only Snyder movie I vibed with was the Snyder cut. It's so long and weird and intricate and it has a lot of really intense slow motion and weird sequences that I was really fascinated by it. This isn't the experience of most people, I think most people would point to MoS as the best Snyder DC movie but something about the insanity of the Snyder cut and the dedication of seeing that insane vision actually executed did it for me. It was earnest in a way that marvel stuff wasn't. That being said, I don't really need those movies to continue, and the current Gunn DC slate is also weird and varied in a way that makes me cautiously excited for the future of DC (you know how it is with Warner executives, can never lower your guard).
Somebody in a position of authority learning from the mistakes of others and actually having a plan? Somebody pinch me, ‘cause I must still be dreaming.
“Someone throw me a beach towel, ‘cause my head is swimming.”
This mentality is how comic book movies continue to be made and not become a fad genre.
I don't know if Gunn can withstand WB's dedication to ruining their own films, but I absolutely think Gunn's take on DC characters is rooted in a deep understanding and appreciation of all the things given their character's fandoms in the first place. He also know's the marvel formula on a detailed level. I might not agree with every choice he makes, but I'll know he's not going to shoot Jimmy Olsen in the face for fun or make Superman Libertarian Jesus.
I think Gunn would walk if WB tried to mess with his projects too much.
He wouldn't be the first
I don't think Gunn would have accepted the job if he was untiling to collaborate with execs.
That’s probably also why it’s both Safran and Gunn. Gunn can focus on the creative side while Safran deals with executives.
I don't think that will be a problem. He is the head of the studio, and so he answers only to Zaslav. And if Zaslav tries to muck things up, Gunn would probably leave the studio.
Noted 70s political thriller Captain America Winter Soldier
I definitely remember there being a giant thing in the sky in that movie.
Parallax View would've had a giant thing in the sky if it hadn't blown up on the tarmac
Really like the last line of that headline. >You need to tell stories that don’t just pretend to be different genres, but actually are different genres. It's one thing to say that and another to execute it though, so I hope they do. It's pretty interesting timing for this whole DCU reboot thing given that a lot of people (myself included) are tiring of the MCU. If they do it well it could be pretty huge.
I'm hoping they're successful at least in part because if they are it'll force Feige to shake things up a little bit.
Okay, sure. But can we get another genre of post besides James Gunn quote? Could the next one at least print the quote on Nightwing’s ass or something?
I just hope the "genres" don't over shadow being a piece in a scifi/fantasy universe. The "gritty realism" Batmans turn out to be a guy in horned tactical gear taking shots to the chest like Robocop and ultimately are crime stories (not bad ones) that is pretty much centered around mundane serial killers and gang lords. Please allow improbable fighting skills, mud monsters, and dudes to shoot ice rays.
I read the OP and immediately thought.... "Like Marvel phase 2?" Ill admit I was irked by the way he worded the comment about not just pretending to be other genres, because I agree with your point that the appeal of a comic book movie is the IP it comes from. If you dont want comic movies to feel like comic movies... dont do comic movies? Write new IP. Otherwise Im going to Batman wanting bat shaped boomerangs and rocket powered cars and a cape that turns into a glider.
I mean wtf even constitutes a comic book flick huh? Is Ghost World not a comic book movie? Is Road to Perdition not a comic book movie? Comic books are a medium for diverse storytelling, they are not in and of itself a genre.
You act like there’s no diversity in comic books. We have horror in our superhero stories, sword and sorcery fantasy, murder/mystery thrillers, etc. There’s so much more diversity in the comics than in the movies. The MCU keeps pitching us cross-genre movies, but their approach to genre is so brief and superficial, it’s like someone rebranding themselves as goth by putting on a black T-shirt.
You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
A long time ago, between the first two GOTG movies, he did a Q&A on Facebook. I asked him if there were any genres he hadn't done yet that he was interested in, he replied, "Westerns and musicals". I keep my fingers crossed that he'll get to do at least one of each.
The problem I'm finding with writing these sort of stories is that a lot of people either GET their morality from their entertainment, or think that all entertainment is propaganda for some agenda, rather than simply letting it be a part of a fictional story.
He needs to pace himself with these interviews, statements, and tweets. Do the work, stop trying to score fan points. Show me, don’t tell me.
Yeah for dc we definitely need results after all the crap.
I think his track record shows he does both. He (co-)wrote Guardians of the Galaxy, and directed it. Wrote and directed Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, the Holiday Special, and Vol. 3. He also wrote and directed The Suicide Squad and Peaceamaker. As of right now, according to him, he's already written [Creature Commandos](https://collider.com/creature-commandos-series-image-dcu-james-gunn/), he's outlined either the story or pre-treatment for [The Authority](https://collider.com/james-gunn-writing-directing-dcu/), he's knee-deep in writing Superman: Legacy and might direct it, he's still overseeing the editing process for Guardians Vol. 3 as we speak, and he and Mr. Safran just spent less than four months since their hire was officially announced in [October](https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1587548911551381504) to outline 10+ projects and start organizing talent and directors, what else do you want from the man lol.
I’m well aware of the resume of everyone involved. I’d argue Gunn is untested as a studio head. I hope he steps out of the spotlight a bit as productions ramp up.
Reading the article it sounds like these are still quotes from the press conference they did. So it's Variety milking it to get more clicks for what's basically the same story.
I’m certain WB is pushing hard for him to win back goodwill. As much as everything he’s saying is awesome and exactly what I wanted to hear, I’m sure it’s passed muster with the execs before he says it.
That’s a great point, he’s typically very hush about details. He may have been asked to make statements about the complete change in direction.
Yeah, I like gunn, hes got a good track record as a director, but running a whole division is a different animal, and hes talking a lot shit for someone who just got the job.
And as someone just posted his track record people point to are very similar style/premises. I have to *see* something before I buy in entirely. I liked his work but this isnt a matter of just handling one small team
Yeah he's really good at writing & directing ensembles of quippy, loveable, violent sociopaths. That's great and I love when he does it, but that alone is not enough to completely turn the DCEU around.
Well they're basically in press tour mode now and the outlets will continue to milk quotes for the next couple weeks even if he doesnt say anything new after today. I don't think he's doing too much, but it's just the way the pop culture news market works that you will continue to hear about every little thing he says long after he's said it, with the outlets finding a way to make an article out of every throwaway statement. It will die down eventually. But on the other hand Gunn is a very accessible person and active on twitter so there will always be new quotes to milk. It's not necessarily a bad thing but could backfire when any of the projects aren't well received
Yep hes really building up expectations and while i like his work people are acting like hes scorsese or something.
I appreciate that part about not just pretending to be different genres. It's not good enough to take a few aspects from horror, war, or heist movies, but then keep pretty much everything else that's in most superhero movies.
That comment kinda irks because marvel was the first to push their superhero movies (debatable how far) into different genres just like the comics. DC is still struggling to create a single excellent superhero movie aside from Batman. And even though I like Gunn, he has yet to do anything that’s not infused with goofy comedy, so coming from him that irks me further. Now excuse me, I have some clouds to yell at….
We'll see how audiences react to a truly non-superhero superhero film though. Sounds awesome to me but will be interesting to see if it gets as much traction with general audiences as more standard fare
They definitely need to pick the right mix of characters and genres. Like Swamp Thing would probably benefit a lot from being a horror movie. Of course, that's not to say I don't think there aren't new things to do with a superhero movie that's just trying to be that.
I’m looking forward to what JG has planned. It can’t be any worse than the mountain of crap DC has produced to date.
What about a western style movie but with marvel characters
Fun fact, the old golden age marvel Western comics characters (Rawhide Kid, Phantom Rider, Two Gun Kid, Gunhawk, etc) canonically existed in the main marvel universe, and even occasionally (via time travel shenanigans) interested with modern heros.
Ant man gets so small he slips through time and has a child in the old west with natural shrinking powers, who's on the run from a gang of bandits after foiling their train robbery. This Thanksgiving, Paul Rudd with deaging cg is... VarmAnt.
If Warner Brothers studio execs can keep their dicks out of the creative process for these films, we might actually end up with something worth watching. I have a ton of faith in James Gunn, but I have zero faith in the higher ups at WB that they will let him work unimpeded.
The Supergirl movie looks to be based on the Woman of Tomorrow comic which is basically True Grit in space (and it is terrific). I am always on board for space westerns.
Yeah that comic is incredible. DC going galactic is past time as well.
I hope they try making a good movie for once
Logan is a good example of what he’s talking about.
My hopes weren’t high originally. They’re beginning to rise now
He’s aware that his Suicide Squad movie and his spinoff Peacemaker show have basically the exact same bad guy? Small mind-controlling aliens?
Good point but maybe slightly different. Suicide Squad was more of a zombie invasion, where those affected acted like zombies and it was evidentially clear what was happening. Peacemaker was more like a “Secret Invasion” story where you didn’t know who to trust and there was an argument to be made that some of the aliens actually could be trusted.
I haven't seen Peacemaker but I had some respect that the villain of both suicide squad movies was the US government, as opposed to the mcu.
Just do it better than Snyder did.
I mean The Batman was basically good guy vs bad guy. Cinematically it was beautiful. The acting was great and I think the story had a lot of depth. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel but you have to follow through and deliver. MCU started falling into a bad habit of just writing jokes. Jokes are ok but viewers ultimately want stakes. I strongly believe Quantumania will deliver this. They’ve been previewing the stakes pretty well. Does Kang escape? Can Lang stop him? If he doesn’t, what is Kang capable of and who will be destroyed when they stand in his way?
The Batman II will just be 2 hours of a black screen + sound effects.
I'll see this in the agedlikemilk section when the giant beam in the sky shows up
Ouch that was pointed as that's basically the Marvel playbook. I'm optimistic (because I mean the bar is set pretty low currently) for what he plans to do with DC.
From the guy who made The Suicide Squad, about a (checks notes) giant thing in the sky.
The first Guardians of the Galaxy had the exact same plot that every other MCU movie (and most fantasy movies) had at the time.
To be fair it was one of most out there alien monsters I’ve ever seen. Really fun.
> giant thing in the sky. A giant thing on the ground il have you know
That came from the sky.
The Suicide Squads plot does match up with his idea for more morally complicated storytelling. If more of that's where they are going I'm down.
Well I think the idea is to have other people write and bring their unique sensibilities to the stories themselves, while still following an overall direction. Which is ostensibly what the MCU does, but he wants to push more in the direction of giving them even more creative leeway
So are they doing a reboot or not? I can’t really get invested in DCU bc the continuity is already a bit confusing.
I think so far the only one not being entirely rebooted is Shazam. I could be wrong though.
Sure, but Superman is Superman. You have to tell the story of an alien who arrived illegally in the U.S. and has made it his home despite being hated for being different and not American. Supes is symbol for immigrants, the LGBTQ crowd and poor people all over the U.S and the world and we can't turn him into something like Peter Quill, a joking idiot who can't be taken seriously.
CBM Fans: "Actually DOOD, that's not gonna work for me brother!" Let's be honest, most comic book fans don't care if these movies are 1:1 as long as they aren't literally watching the same film over and over again. I don't say that as a knock or anything, but this audience likes what it likes. Most times, the CBM's that try to be different wind up under performing.
Yea people complaining about giant battles at the end but do people who go to superhero movies want to get to the end and _not_ have a badass fight scene? Of course there are ways to do it to where it feels creatively fresh and resonates with the characters and their journey, but not having it all will probably disappoint/annoy a lot of people. I guess we'll see
i honestly don’t need a massive fight scene finish but i’m aware that many casual fans will get super upset when there isn’t one, or if it gets weird or meta but personally i fuckin love weird
…On the one hand, I can see how this philosophy could do really good with the right characters. However, I think generally just having something focused on strictly being heroic can be good. Take the first Iron Man movie, doesn’t have to be all giant monsters and planet killing ships. Could be a hero fighting for what’s right. Or just fighting for what they see as right. The old JLA show, Or Justice League Unlimited do a really good job of that. Heroic films need to take some inspiration. It doesn’t have to be serious all the time, sometimes you gotta have fun with it.
I would love to see more slice of life, lower stakes movies. Not everything has to be a cosmic threat to everything that is. For me, that's become tiresome and makes it harder to be invested in the characters themselves. Also, Gunn is freaking hot, amiright??
Great news. This will up everyone’s game, and make all the superhero movies and shows better, which he has stated was his goal. It was getting extremely boring, to be honest. My only concern is that I hope his voice doesn’t dominate everything they put out. He’s made good stuff, but he has some tendencies that I wouldn’t want to see replicated in every movie (I’m not always the biggest fan of his sense of humor). But if he’s true to his word here, that won’t be an issue. He seems like he’s really got his eye on the ball.
We’ll see
I totally agree but it's a question how commercially successful that will be. "Art" is at odds with "mass appeal" usually.
I'm definitely in the minority of people that think this way, but I don't think all these films need to be or should be rated R. You can certainly have some R rated content and even build towards some darker stories, but I think one thing that DC is missing right now is that their movies are only aimed at adults. The kids should also be growing up with these heroes too. And while this may sound like, "Marvel did it this way..." I think we can all agree that there is a level of success in that they made their movies approachable for all ages without sacrificing areas of darkness at the same time.
While I find his movies to be hit and miss and he's not totally my brand, I like that this doesn't sound like a blind aping of the Marvel system. It's it's own cohesive vision, all under one roof, with one creative team at the helm. So we'll see how it turns out. I'm not super jazzed about everything that he's mentioned but I'm willing to give it a chance. Which is good because as things stood, the DCU wasn't going to get another dollar out of me.
Isn’t that what Zach Snyder tried to do?
Nope.
I disagree, I think people still want the good guy bad guy trope but having humanized heroes who achieve great things is to me, fun to watch (Batman). Throw in comedy with enough drama to make it interesting is the winning combo, I think. You can tweak the formula for more comedy and get guardians or just a splash of comedy and get iron man. Making it all dark an just focusing on moral quandary is the reason I didn’t like breaking bad. Again just my opinion.
The biggest mistake DC has made to date is trying to make Superman dark and gritty and then trying to make Batman darker and grittier to compensate. I really hope we get a brighter, less morally ambiguous Supes this time around. That's just me, though.
Should watch Attack On Titan, talk about morally complex
*proceeds to make the most cliché and annoying of the MCU movies at that time*
And all this because 4channers wanted to get him fired for old tweets.
> You can’t be telling the same ‘good guy, bad guy, giant thing in the sky, good guys win’ story again I guarantee that there will be three such movies that hit it big in the box office in the next 5 years. Humans aren't done with our archetypal stories. > You need to tell stories that are more morally complex. You can, and Gunn generally does. That's a popular sort of story right now, but there are others. *Avatar: The Way of Water* was very much a traditional good guys vs. bad guys with almost no moral ambiguity to the main characters, and it did really well. *Thor: Love and Thunder* was a straightforward "overcome your limitations in order to prevail against evil" sort of story at its heart, and then lots of zaniness layered over it. Gunn is over-generalizing here. The grimdark thing isn't universal and it's not the only story people want to be exposed to. It's popular to be sure, and if that's the way he wants to go, it will probably do well, but it does leave an opening for the next Superman (1978), The Avengers, Spider-Man, etc.
Yeah but Avatar at least started to humanize its bad guys. The things they're doing are bad, but it feels like they have interesting reasons for doing them. Love and Thunder's message was definitely a 'love must triumph over hate' type story, but that's different than what he laid out. Neither movie blew me away but I did at least feel like they were trying something original.
What he said was, "you can't be telling the same 'good guy, bad guy... good guys win' story again." I think that's pretty obviously false on the evidence we've seen. Yes, you might find reasons that's true in this or that case. You might find a villain that's a bit more nuanced than Lex Luthor in Superman or the machines in The Matrix. But ultimately, good vs. evil is still a fundamentally human story that we're going to tell again and again in both relatively pure and highly nuanced ways, whether Gunn thinks it's a good idea or not.
In Thor the good guys don't win, the bad guy just has a change of heart. In Avatar, the good guys survive, but I wouldn't exactly call it victory. I'm not saying I'm sick of good vs. evil stories, I'm saying I want more to the evil than World-Ending MacGuffin used by Very Strong Bad Guy. That's why the 'giant thing in the sky' bit matters.
You can quibble about the details but the bottom line is that the characters in those movies are not morally gray in the way that Gunn's characters tend to be, which is the context we're working with here.
I'm hoping for Super Sons tv show down the line.
ITT: people who don't understand that WB and DC Studios are two separate things. Either Gunn or Safran, I can't remember which, already said that there'll be no studio interference, because the two of them ARE the studio. (Their words, not mine.)
Funny how the DC films haven't been telling the same "good guy, bad guy, giant thing in the sky, good guys win’ story" and yet here we are.... they're gonna need to focus their films around actual stories people care about with characters people care about. The thing Marvel does best is build on layers of story VS lets shoehorn all kinds of DC heroes into one movie and expect people to know/care about what happens to them. OH and please don't show Bruce Waynes parents getting killed.... it's up there with Uncle Ben.... WE KNOW move on.
That makes sense, since Guardians of the Galaxy was one of the few Marvel films to break the formula. The formula being: Hero struggles against an enemy who is just a bigger, badder version of themselves. Iron Man / Iron Monger Hulk / Abomination Iron Man / Whiplash Thor / Loki Captain America / Red Skull Iron Man / Extremis Thor / Malekith Captain America / Winter Soldier Guardians of the Galaxy - No real comparison with Ronan the Accuser or the Nova Corps. It was actually refreshing. Ant Man / Yellowjacket Civil War: Avengers vs. Avengers. Doctor Strange / Kaecilius Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - Back to the trope... Star Lord / His Dad (Ego, the Living Planet) Thor / Hela Black Panther / Killmonger Captain Marvel / Yon-Rogg Black Widow / Taskmaster Shang-Chi / The (Real) Mandarin Eternals / Celestials Doctor Strange / Scarlet Witch Thor / Gorr Wakanda / Talokan
I’m far more of a Marvel comics guy than a DC guy. But this is crazy promising. Gunn gets it, IMO. The MCU has doubled down on the black-white formula, to the point where every movie is loud and dumb and predictable. I’ve walked away from the MCU for now. The awful second Dr. Strange movie was the last MCU movie I’ll see in theatres for a good long while. But now I’m interested in the upcoming DC movies for the first time in ages.
This is brilliant, a man that clearly loves the source material and understands the heroes and what makes them tick. I really hope this is the tunnel out of the Marvel formula, and the even worse big monster fight or hero clone fight in the end of each movie.
Funny thing - I would totally agree if not for a fact that I know that what people usually mean by the "grey area" "complex characters" etc. - glamorisation of degeneracy and moral nihilism.
I really hate that Flash is still happening
There needs to be more diversity & inclusiveness
Which isn't easy considering DC's history with diversity. Sure, they got plenty of black super heroes now. But boy was the twentieth century lacking in anything other than Black Lightning and Black Lightning rip-offs. So many Black Lightning rip-offs. Diversity doesn't just mean "have a black guy." It also means "have a black guy with a different super power other than [electricity.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsWhxhxuD7s)"
So far there's Midnighter & Apollo on the Authority, Supergirl, the Amazons on Paradise Lost, the cast of Creature Commandos, Jon Stewart on Lanterns, (Amanda) Waller, and if they stick close to the comics Damian Wayne might have some [Arabic/Chinese heritage](https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-connecting-with-his-culture-dc/), I'd say that bodes well, no?
This man’s sees marvel blood in the water and is going for the killlll
All while Marvel is absolutely destroying DC in overall metrics.
Hey, dont rob the man of his 8 karma internet burn!
He’s doing waaay too much talking imo. I kinda felt the slate was a little lackluster. Not a single actor or director revealed? It’s still kinda messy too not a 100% reboot. Let’s see what happens.
Yeah they really needed something more than art assets and titles, because right now all of this talk seems like a press tour and a press tour we've heard before from DC. I dont think people needed them to rush this out, and having directors and cast confirmations would give a better sense about how they are actually gonna deliver on the hype he's talking.
This is the equivalent of what Marvel does at the start of each phase, the details come after: https://comicbook.com/news/marvel-released-official-marvel-cinematic-universe-phase-3-timel/
I believe they announced Chadwick Boseman (RIP) was Black Panther at the Phase 3 announcement at El Capitan. He was on stage along with RDJ & Chris Evans. They made it an event. I don’t expect all the details but it just came out that Mangold is in talks for Swamp Thing. They couldn’t lock something like that down first then announce?
So, don't tell comic-book stories in comic books or comic-book movies. Got it.
What's this feeling? It's a strange sensation... am I having a stroke? ... I don't smell toast, so probably not... is... can it be? Is it ... hope?... a twinge... a spark of... excitement!?... FOR DC MOVIES AND TV?! Sweet Christmas. I need to lay down... I can't handle this...
Yes, sh*t on what completely MADE the MCU and transition to what is now KILLING it. Good plan DC.