For context, in the new Ultimate universe, there's a handful of global Superpowers, one is basically Europe (I forget the name) but as one unified bloc. So Captain Britain is a leader within that bloc, not just the British Isles, so French CB.
He's such a piece of shit too. His line later on where he talks about breaking the Round Table, raping the Lady of the Lake and pissing in the Holy Grail just because he hates Britain really hammers home how much of a shit he is.
Especially in context of how important those all are to the Marvel Universe. I hope Betsy beats the shit out of him.
I’m hoping if this run goes well we get an Ultimate Captain Britain series focused on Brian and Betsy trying to rebuild Great Britain and bits of Europe after Jamie’s stopped, and foster magic to come back.
> after Jamie’s stopped
Oh, this isn't Jamie, I don't think. This is some guy named "Henri Duggary", who said he was a descendant of the Sun King (Louis XIV) in this issue. So this is just some French guy.
It's a bit hard to imagine Jamie not being related to Betsy and Brian. It felt like a fundamental core to that group.
For reference I have also not read this issue / any ultimate stuff.
I haven’t read the new issue but everything else it seems Jamie just has Brian’s powers as captain Britain. It doesn’t seem like he’s an omega mutant that can manipulate things.
Yes. It's dark as fuck.
Also, I want to say that everything I said was mentioned in passing in a single panel. Also, he said he took the Lady as his concubine, not that he was raping her, but let's be honest, she isn't there willingly. It's rape.
It's because whoever holds the Sword of Might and the Amulet of Right rules the EU which includes Great Britain. It's basically just the Captain Britain mantle passing between two rich nobles in 616 if it was actually taken seriously. (I.e. they'd be monsters)
Totally, but I also appreciate that its coming from a totally different angle.
Post 9/11, the original Ultimates were government sponsored heroes as a reaction.
Meanwhile, in today's age of government corruption, the Ultimates are revolutionaries.
Very different takes, but some similar flavours. And the new take also makes them easier to empathize with lol
Yeah I mean that's the only way you can evolve upon it. The Ultimates were at best government fascists. The natural counterpoint now in a world where people are increasingly disenchanted with government is that they'd be terrorists/revolutionaries.
Oh 100%, I'm just glad that this is how the concept was reinvented, because I could 100% see a world where another creative team took the book in a different direction
Yeah. It's very easy to conceive of a world where we got what people wanted pre-UI which was just the Ultimate Universe back to where it was 1999 with everything as edgy as ever (except of course USM). I'm glad Hickman got to be at the reins for this one.
> raping the Lady of the Lake and pissing in the Holy Grail
Technically I think he just said she was his "concubine", which... I don't think *necessarily* means he did that to her... but probably, yeah.
Also, he said it was his chamber pot, so he may have both pissed AND shit in the Holy Grail. Very important distinction, I assure you.
> I hope Betsy beats the shit out of him.
Maybe her and Brian will beat up for the Amulet and Sword and become Avalon and Britain both, like current Marvel. Or one of the lesser known Capt. Britain heroes (there's been a couple others, I think).
> Technically I think he just said she was his "concubine", which... I don't think necessarily means he did that to her... but probably, yeah.
Do you think she came to be his concubine willingly?
You misunderstand what I say. A concubine is a lesser wife, historically. Which I say "I don't think necessarily means he did that to her".
He forced her to be his concubine, yes. But the question is what that actually *means*. What is she forced to do? Is it a forced sexual relationship? Rape. Or, is concubinage being used, as it *can* be, though less often, to simply refer to some form of cohabitation? It *could* be that she's simply forced into a... "domestic" role, per say. A demure trophy on display. One of many beautiful women who are a show of wealth and power.
As I said, you, in my opinion, are more likely than not right in the assumption that it is meant to imply rape. But, the word does not have to actual imply that. It could just be a status forced upon her to show her subjugation. We'll see (probably, at some point, when we get the inevitable fall of Duggary) the actual extent what happened to her.
I'm a dumbass... why? Because I'm pointing out that the word "concubine" might not be used in a sexual capacity? Because that's the crux of my comment, just to be clear- that the term concubine, as a matter of its definition/definitions, does not inherently imply a sexual relationship.
I... think you misunderstand the entire point I was making. I was **not** saying she was willing in anything, sexual or non-sexual. (I think it's safe to assume, given the content of the rant, that her connection to him is unwilling.)
My point was that the word "concubine" does not inherently mean that he has sex with her, or any sort of sexual encounter, be it singular or repeated. Even if we assume whatever Duggary meant by "took as a concubine" was forced (and I *am* making that assumption), to say her raped her still requires an assumption about what he did. One still has to make the assumption that he meant there was some sort of sexual component to the relationship to reach the conclusion that it was rape.
And the reason you still have to make an assumption on what he did is because, again, **"concubine" does not inherently imply a sexual relationship.** If his relationship, forced or not, is non-sexual, then there was no rape.
> to not say much besides "maybe [...] she consensually became a lower wife of an evil man"
I said that? Weird, because I thought I said, at the very start of the second paragraph:
> **He forced her to be his concubine, yes.** But the question is what that actually means. **What is she forced to do?**
Oh wait, that **is** what I said. I said **literally the opposite of what you claimed I said.** And that's not edited, because it would have an * by this point if I had edited.
That wasn't hidden, and it wasn't confusingly worded, so you either:
A) Read what I wrote, but then just outright lied about what I was saying
B) Didn't read what I wrote and just imagined some bullshit for me to say
C) You barely skimmed it an misunderstood a clearly-worded, straightforward sentence, when replying to a post where I was explicitly trying to make my point crystal clear
It's fine if you think the line is implying he raped her. I don't dispute that it's valid to interpret it that; I just don't think that's the only way to interpret it. But **don't claim** I said she willingly became a concubine, and **don't claim** I said she had sex with him willingly.
**Neither of those things are what I said.** And I only hope that it's the latter (you misunderstood), rather than reading it and lying about what was said or not reading it and prejudicially imagining a straw man.
It's Great Britain so let's not get too appalled. It's at best villains vs villains. The concept of Captain Britain especially in recent years is just frankly appalling given how much modern writers love to ignore Great Britain's atrocities to do their stupid twee magical superhero.
Captain America has had a consistent and decades-long history of doing exactly that so... yeah. Mind I don't have a problem with historical Captain Britain stories, Alan Moore and other writers were generally good at not doing the exact twee bullshit I'm criticizing here. But this whole "Well aha your criticism doesn't count if it isn't applied across the board thing" is ridiculous, why would you want us all to pretend there isn't some sort of issue with pandering nationalism?
I'm British and appalled by alot of our history, but in what way does Captain Britain pander to nationalism? Do you even know what British nationalism looks like? The book is about Camelot magic and demons, with some vague references to the monarchy. And the flag. Those are symbols which yes can be used by Nationalists but don't inherently have to be pandering. The closest you could get to nationalism is the book implying Britain is 'special' which is mostly because so much mythology that American readers might be familiar with originates from it.
British nationalism is about rejecting European identity, rejecting immigration, revanchism over colonial holdings, particularly Ireland, and aggressive posturing on the world stage. I don't think any modern versions of Captain Britain has done any of that.
Well this depiction is entirely unrelated to Britain because he is French and actively anti-British, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about unless it's a blanket "a superhero which 'represents' a nation that has taken negative actions is bad".
Yup, the British flag is known as the butcher apron in a lot of former colonies. Ultimate Captain Britian is a better representation of what Britain is, as opposed to Betsy who is basically a fantasy version.
Yep. Bingo. I don't mind Brian to a point since in the past he was written as a very blunt critique of Great Britain's faults as a country and a colonial warmonger, or Faiza since you can actually make some hash out of that under a writer with some teeth like Al Ewing.
But the general trend these days with Captain Britain is just Captain America but twee which no thanks.
Jesus Christ I was hoping that this ultimates would be better than the old one and that one line is straight from the old ultiamte universe. I'm so fucking nervous and getting flashbacks.
Yeah, it's not anything at all like the Ultimate universe.
For instance, I said "rapes" because, well, that's what he's doing, but it's not an on panel thing. He said he took the Lady of the Lake to be his concubine. Everything I mentioned is something he says in passing. Also, unlike the old Ultimate universe, this guy is the bad guy and Cap gives Hank Pym a "I believe in you, you are not another man's mistakes" speech, showing that he's a kind man like the 616 version.
So far, most of what we've seen is actually a subversion or commentary upon the old Ultimate Universe. All of the Maker's minions and the rulers of the world are closer to the original Ultimate Universe (gray Hulk, psychotic asshole Captain Britain, evil Rasputin family), because he came from that universe. Meanwhile, the heroes are closer to their original 616 counterparts. They're kind, they care about helping people and fight for the good of regular people.
They do seem more likely to kill in this universe, but that's probably because it's more like the MCU.
France created one of the most famous "OC Do Not Steal" characters with Lancelot, who was just made to have this French dude that is just the bestest, most handsomest, most noble...est, knight in all of Britain(even though he's a huge piece of shit), so it's a long tradition.
I wanted to read more immediately. I didn’t expect to actually like the team. Tony as a dorky teenager, Cap is actually cool, Hank’s valid yet unexpected reservations. So many good character moments.
Also reed who has nothing else than being "doom" cause his "would have been" family is dead. And thor being wounded i imagine was a way to call back to donald blake
Yeah Hank seems deeply worried by the files of who *should’ve* been, which combined with his brain injury should be enough to stop him from becoming like other Hank Pyms.
Cap seems much more level headed and wholesome compared to previous Ultimate Cap.
I think that's lowkey what his arc here is, no?
He saw what became of 616 Hank, which is why he rejected the offer at first. Unlike Peter, the "what could have been" doesn't sound appealing to him. So now he has to define himself as a hero, despite his insecurities
Hank Pym was one of my favorite super heroes growing up but decades of stories that one way or another revolved around “the slap” just sapped all joy I had for the character.
I would love to get a version of Hank Pym free from that baggage but starting Ultimate Pym’s career with “boy the slap sure was terrible” does not feel me with hope. I don’t mean to come off jaded or tired but I have been down this road before.
Ahhhhh that makes sense, I getcha I getcha. Here's hoping that this Hank gets a chance to make his own mark and move past his hangups regarding 616 Hank!
He's more than that. Hank, for all his genius, is incredibly insecure, and has actual diagnosed mental issues.
This Hank likey has a lot of the same traits, but has never needed to worry about the results that could arise from his mistakes. He literally has a blueprint now of what a guy whose jealous of people, and has untreated bipolar disorder can do.
This is less likely "he hit his wife" and more likely "what kind of man would I become if I wasn't hindered".
Shouldn't Marker having the files about 1610 counterparts would make more sense, I mean He is originally from 1610 and called 6160 new Home or something and He even offered Miles to join him, Then why is his files about 616
I believe because the universe he found was basically a 616 style universe in its infancy, you can explain away anything really but he would have more access to 616 information at the time he put all this into work (1610 was destroyed it would be more work to study) so it would be easier to find a world very similar to 616 and then change it from there.
In ultimate invasion he steals reed files and then looks for artifacts representing factions of 616 like the krakoan seed or vibranium to make some sort of aimed forever gate. So he was intentionally looking for a world like 616, so that he didn't have to do the work and just use reed's files to change events
Its refreshing to see that instead of the "everything is edgy" angle the original Ultimates went for, this one is more like, here's a dorky less narcissistic (for now) Tony, a poetic meathead Thor, Dr. Reed Doom, Cap is Cap, Hank is anxious from the get go. Love it so far.
I'm sure Reed Doom have a fuck load of Mental issues unlike our Doom, He does does not have superiority complex, It feels like He is a member of Doom Patrol
This is just my headcanon, but I feel like its setting up Reed Doom to be the "Ultimate" form of the Maker. Maker gives him all of the trauma that he basically had, with some modifications in the plan. Rather than developing the sociopathic tendencies of the Maker, he starts to go down the Doom route, becoming increasingly cunning, manipulative, etc. At the end, when they take down the Maker for good, the one that's standing will be Doom.
Well, they are clearly setting him up to be Reed at some point. The talk of a time machine, and Maker's time bubble being mearly a high wall to climb leave me to think that in the end of this, F4 are coming back to help.
Key to notice him not accepting failures and willing to run the Immortus boxes experiment until he got a desired outcome, something we usually see in both 616 Doom and Reed
Between Cap waking up like 80 years later to find out that the USA broke up just ~25 years after he was frozen and then being told some French guy related to Louis XIV is Captain Britain, he must be so fucking confused in the Hickman Ultimate Universe.
I love the potential of this Cap. Everyone else looks at this universe (outside of Ultimates and their view of the loss of super heroes) as the norm, and even we don't really know what the Maker did to change this world.
Most of the time the readers know what cap has to learn in the stories, but we'll be able to learn along side him for this. So so cool.
I am SO happy Cap still has some edge to him.
He's not the jingoistic, "yeah America!" of 1610 Cap, but he's not a carbon copy of 616 either which was my biggest worry.
There's actually a somewhat eyebrow-raising line in this comic where Tony says "I haven't mastered time. *Yet.*" Considering the original Iron Lad... quite the potential foreshadowing.
Can someone give me a reading list on the new Ultimate's line so I can keep up with the story?
I haven't read much comics before but this seems like a good time with this new story line and series.
I wonder if any of the Leaders will do a Heel-Face Turn and help the Ultimates. At this point they all seem irredeemable, but I guess we'll have to see if they're all as much of a piece of shit as Captain France over here.
maybe a mutant family, x-men not having a council member from the get go is weird. spider-man has captain britain and kingpin, panther has moon knights, ultimates the council in general, x-men meanwhile is about the "shadow king", so maybe that's where the crack happens.
Illyana seemed to be pretty down for the plan, so I'm not sure it'd be her, and Omega Red is not known for his altruism, but hey, new universe so who knows. Colossus didn't say much (or anything at all IIRC) in the meeting back in Ultimate Invasion, so maybe he'd be the one. But still, they're all active participants in all of this, so they're all complicit.
I don't see any of the Hi no Kuni mutant Leaders turning to the Light Side, they all seem to be drinking the whole Sun Emperor Kool-Aid willingly.
The craziest thing about this issue is finding out that besides Spider-Man, and I guess Shocker, just about everyone Tony sent powers to accidentally killed themselves with them. Then it showed Captain Marvel seemingly exploding an entire block.
Brexit won with like... what, 50.X%, I think? Krakoa, meanwhile, was supposed to be like... 90%+ of the Mutant population. Plus, unlike Brexit, where it was, at best, a slight benefit (like, once accounting for compromises to keep some benefits in exchange for regulatory and administrative decoupling that was desired, it was never going to be that spectacular), Mutants got:
Free housing, a never ending island vacation, free food, **immortality**, and a society that was A-OK with constant partying and orgies.
Basically, Krakoa was truly utopian in many ways.
(Also, the British weren't constantly being genocided by Europe, that's another important difference)
>!the beginning of this comic mentions how they steal a frozen captain america and break thor out of an asgard prison...!< is that readable yet? or is it something we'll see flashbacks of?
For context, in the new Ultimate universe, there's a handful of global Superpowers, one is basically Europe (I forget the name) but as one unified bloc. So Captain Britain is a leader within that bloc, not just the British Isles, so French CB.
He's such a piece of shit too. His line later on where he talks about breaking the Round Table, raping the Lady of the Lake and pissing in the Holy Grail just because he hates Britain really hammers home how much of a shit he is. Especially in context of how important those all are to the Marvel Universe. I hope Betsy beats the shit out of him.
I’m hoping if this run goes well we get an Ultimate Captain Britain series focused on Brian and Betsy trying to rebuild Great Britain and bits of Europe after Jamie’s stopped, and foster magic to come back.
> after Jamie’s stopped Oh, this isn't Jamie, I don't think. This is some guy named "Henri Duggary", who said he was a descendant of the Sun King (Louis XIV) in this issue. So this is just some French guy.
We haven't seem Jamie Braddock (or any of the Braddocks AFAIK) from Earth 6160. The Captain Britain from this universe is unrelated to the Braddocks.
Is he related to them in this universe?
It's a bit hard to imagine Jamie not being related to Betsy and Brian. It felt like a fundamental core to that group. For reference I have also not read this issue / any ultimate stuff.
Not Jamie Braddock, a new character named Henri Duggary. Jamie was the 1610 Captain Britain.
I haven’t read the new issue but everything else it seems Jamie just has Brian’s powers as captain Britain. It doesn’t seem like he’s an omega mutant that can manipulate things.
So basically he wears the Union Jack not because he loves Britain but he wears it like a trophy?
Yes. It's dark as fuck. Also, I want to say that everything I said was mentioned in passing in a single panel. Also, he said he took the Lady as his concubine, not that he was raping her, but let's be honest, she isn't there willingly. It's rape.
It's because whoever holds the Sword of Might and the Amulet of Right rules the EU which includes Great Britain. It's basically just the Captain Britain mantle passing between two rich nobles in 616 if it was actually taken seriously. (I.e. they'd be monsters)
Glad to see the new Ultimates still has some of the edge of the original
The Ultimates just straight up kill a ton of grunts in self defense, it's interesting, there's definitely still bite!
Totally, but I also appreciate that its coming from a totally different angle. Post 9/11, the original Ultimates were government sponsored heroes as a reaction. Meanwhile, in today's age of government corruption, the Ultimates are revolutionaries. Very different takes, but some similar flavours. And the new take also makes them easier to empathize with lol
Yeah I mean that's the only way you can evolve upon it. The Ultimates were at best government fascists. The natural counterpoint now in a world where people are increasingly disenchanted with government is that they'd be terrorists/revolutionaries.
Oh 100%, I'm just glad that this is how the concept was reinvented, because I could 100% see a world where another creative team took the book in a different direction
Yeah. It's very easy to conceive of a world where we got what people wanted pre-UI which was just the Ultimate Universe back to where it was 1999 with everything as edgy as ever (except of course USM). I'm glad Hickman got to be at the reins for this one.
> raping the Lady of the Lake and pissing in the Holy Grail Technically I think he just said she was his "concubine", which... I don't think *necessarily* means he did that to her... but probably, yeah. Also, he said it was his chamber pot, so he may have both pissed AND shit in the Holy Grail. Very important distinction, I assure you. > I hope Betsy beats the shit out of him. Maybe her and Brian will beat up for the Amulet and Sword and become Avalon and Britain both, like current Marvel. Or one of the lesser known Capt. Britain heroes (there's been a couple others, I think).
> Technically I think he just said she was his "concubine", which... I don't think necessarily means he did that to her... but probably, yeah. Do you think she came to be his concubine willingly?
You misunderstand what I say. A concubine is a lesser wife, historically. Which I say "I don't think necessarily means he did that to her". He forced her to be his concubine, yes. But the question is what that actually *means*. What is she forced to do? Is it a forced sexual relationship? Rape. Or, is concubinage being used, as it *can* be, though less often, to simply refer to some form of cohabitation? It *could* be that she's simply forced into a... "domestic" role, per say. A demure trophy on display. One of many beautiful women who are a show of wealth and power. As I said, you, in my opinion, are more likely than not right in the assumption that it is meant to imply rape. But, the word does not have to actual imply that. It could just be a status forced upon her to show her subjugation. We'll see (probably, at some point, when we get the inevitable fall of Duggary) the actual extent what happened to her.
Dumbass
I'm a dumbass... why? Because I'm pointing out that the word "concubine" might not be used in a sexual capacity? Because that's the crux of my comment, just to be clear- that the term concubine, as a matter of its definition/definitions, does not inherently imply a sexual relationship.
The implication from the scene is that she did not come willingly.
I... think you misunderstand the entire point I was making. I was **not** saying she was willing in anything, sexual or non-sexual. (I think it's safe to assume, given the content of the rant, that her connection to him is unwilling.) My point was that the word "concubine" does not inherently mean that he has sex with her, or any sort of sexual encounter, be it singular or repeated. Even if we assume whatever Duggary meant by "took as a concubine" was forced (and I *am* making that assumption), to say her raped her still requires an assumption about what he did. One still has to make the assumption that he meant there was some sort of sexual component to the relationship to reach the conclusion that it was rape. And the reason you still have to make an assumption on what he did is because, again, **"concubine" does not inherently imply a sexual relationship.** If his relationship, forced or not, is non-sexual, then there was no rape.
a bunch of sentences to not say much besides "maybe he didn't rape her and she consensually became a lower wife of an evil man"
> to not say much besides "maybe [...] she consensually became a lower wife of an evil man" I said that? Weird, because I thought I said, at the very start of the second paragraph: > **He forced her to be his concubine, yes.** But the question is what that actually means. **What is she forced to do?** Oh wait, that **is** what I said. I said **literally the opposite of what you claimed I said.** And that's not edited, because it would have an * by this point if I had edited. That wasn't hidden, and it wasn't confusingly worded, so you either: A) Read what I wrote, but then just outright lied about what I was saying B) Didn't read what I wrote and just imagined some bullshit for me to say C) You barely skimmed it an misunderstood a clearly-worded, straightforward sentence, when replying to a post where I was explicitly trying to make my point crystal clear It's fine if you think the line is implying he raped her. I don't dispute that it's valid to interpret it that; I just don't think that's the only way to interpret it. But **don't claim** I said she willingly became a concubine, and **don't claim** I said she had sex with him willingly. **Neither of those things are what I said.** And I only hope that it's the latter (you misunderstood), rather than reading it and lying about what was said or not reading it and prejudicially imagining a straw man.
if he is french, this is stupid as Arthurian legend are part of french cultures too.
Yeah, they launched animals at him, as well as a giant wooden bunny
It's Great Britain so let's not get too appalled. It's at best villains vs villains. The concept of Captain Britain especially in recent years is just frankly appalling given how much modern writers love to ignore Great Britain's atrocities to do their stupid twee magical superhero.
This seems like a silly criticism unless you're going to do the same thing for Captain America. Britain is in no way more of a villain than the US.
Captain America has had a consistent and decades-long history of doing exactly that so... yeah. Mind I don't have a problem with historical Captain Britain stories, Alan Moore and other writers were generally good at not doing the exact twee bullshit I'm criticizing here. But this whole "Well aha your criticism doesn't count if it isn't applied across the board thing" is ridiculous, why would you want us all to pretend there isn't some sort of issue with pandering nationalism?
I'm British and appalled by alot of our history, but in what way does Captain Britain pander to nationalism? Do you even know what British nationalism looks like? The book is about Camelot magic and demons, with some vague references to the monarchy. And the flag. Those are symbols which yes can be used by Nationalists but don't inherently have to be pandering. The closest you could get to nationalism is the book implying Britain is 'special' which is mostly because so much mythology that American readers might be familiar with originates from it. British nationalism is about rejecting European identity, rejecting immigration, revanchism over colonial holdings, particularly Ireland, and aggressive posturing on the world stage. I don't think any modern versions of Captain Britain has done any of that.
Well this depiction is entirely unrelated to Britain because he is French and actively anti-British, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about unless it's a blanket "a superhero which 'represents' a nation that has taken negative actions is bad".
Yup, the British flag is known as the butcher apron in a lot of former colonies. Ultimate Captain Britian is a better representation of what Britain is, as opposed to Betsy who is basically a fantasy version.
Yep. Bingo. I don't mind Brian to a point since in the past he was written as a very blunt critique of Great Britain's faults as a country and a colonial warmonger, or Faiza since you can actually make some hash out of that under a writer with some teeth like Al Ewing. But the general trend these days with Captain Britain is just Captain America but twee which no thanks.
Jesus Christ I was hoping that this ultimates would be better than the old one and that one line is straight from the old ultiamte universe. I'm so fucking nervous and getting flashbacks.
Yeah, it's not anything at all like the Ultimate universe. For instance, I said "rapes" because, well, that's what he's doing, but it's not an on panel thing. He said he took the Lady of the Lake to be his concubine. Everything I mentioned is something he says in passing. Also, unlike the old Ultimate universe, this guy is the bad guy and Cap gives Hank Pym a "I believe in you, you are not another man's mistakes" speech, showing that he's a kind man like the 616 version. So far, most of what we've seen is actually a subversion or commentary upon the old Ultimate Universe. All of the Maker's minions and the rulers of the world are closer to the original Ultimate Universe (gray Hulk, psychotic asshole Captain Britain, evil Rasputin family), because he came from that universe. Meanwhile, the heroes are closer to their original 616 counterparts. They're kind, they care about helping people and fight for the good of regular people. They do seem more likely to kill in this universe, but that's probably because it's more like the MCU.
this ultimates is honestly much better than the old one. In the old one it would be a Hero Captain Britain saying this
The B stands for Brittany.
Isn’t he bartrot who got captain Britain’s powers?
Damn french stealing our british hero. This is truly the way to make a british person angry is use the french.
Just like having notable English actor Patrick Stewart play French captain Jean-Luc Picard without a hint of a french accent!
France created one of the most famous "OC Do Not Steal" characters with Lancelot, who was just made to have this French dude that is just the bestest, most handsomest, most noble...est, knight in all of Britain(even though he's a huge piece of shit), so it's a long tradition.
Oh I know the lore as I’m British I’m just making a joke
I wanted to read more immediately. I didn’t expect to actually like the team. Tony as a dorky teenager, Cap is actually cool, Hank’s valid yet unexpected reservations. So many good character moments.
Also reed who has nothing else than being "doom" cause his "would have been" family is dead. And thor being wounded i imagine was a way to call back to donald blake
I'm nota familiar with the new ultimate universe, or the original Ultimate Universe, Is this Doom "The Maker" Reed? or another Reed.
it's the reed of this earth, tortured by the maker after he sabotaged the trip of the rocket so that everyone but reed would die.
Yeah Hank seems deeply worried by the files of who *should’ve* been, which combined with his brain injury should be enough to stop him from becoming like other Hank Pyms. Cap seems much more level headed and wholesome compared to previous Ultimate Cap.
and we know from FBCD that jim hammond is joining, so we're going to see some good invaders action
I hope he’s like Cap, who gave us the “fine I’ll do it myself” sequence while making fun of the nerds on his team who can’t fight.
Hank: *is having an existential crisis over the misdeeds of his doppelgänger in another universe* Steve: Those are *his* mistakes, not *yours*.
That brain injury seems like The Maker lobotomized the Ultron part of his brain. Just a thought.
That’s why I’m suspicious of this cap
I saw Hank has like a crisis of person when he learns about his 616 version
I wish he wouldn't. Like holy shit can we not perpetuate "Hank Pym is totally defined by the Slap" even into other realities?
I mean... Ultron
Yellowjacket as well, the slap is only part of it
Sad how the slap overshadows the death robot nowaday
It’s probably because Ultron was an unintended consequence of things. And the slap was Hank’s own actions
I think that's lowkey what his arc here is, no? He saw what became of 616 Hank, which is why he rejected the offer at first. Unlike Peter, the "what could have been" doesn't sound appealing to him. So now he has to define himself as a hero, despite his insecurities
Hank Pym was one of my favorite super heroes growing up but decades of stories that one way or another revolved around “the slap” just sapped all joy I had for the character. I would love to get a version of Hank Pym free from that baggage but starting Ultimate Pym’s career with “boy the slap sure was terrible” does not feel me with hope. I don’t mean to come off jaded or tired but I have been down this road before.
Ahhhhh that makes sense, I getcha I getcha. Here's hoping that this Hank gets a chance to make his own mark and move past his hangups regarding 616 Hank!
Hank is the poster child for Anxiety and the character moments in this were perfect for someone crippled by anxiety. What ifs are way more real
This obviously isn't just about him hitting Janet. Hank Pym has fucked up many times and has been a piece of shit many times outside of that moment.
He's more than that. Hank, for all his genius, is incredibly insecure, and has actual diagnosed mental issues. This Hank likey has a lot of the same traits, but has never needed to worry about the results that could arise from his mistakes. He literally has a blueprint now of what a guy whose jealous of people, and has untreated bipolar disorder can do. This is less likely "he hit his wife" and more likely "what kind of man would I become if I wasn't hindered".
Shouldn't Marker having the files about 1610 counterparts would make more sense, I mean He is originally from 1610 and called 6160 new Home or something and He even offered Miles to join him, Then why is his files about 616
I believe because the universe he found was basically a 616 style universe in its infancy, you can explain away anything really but he would have more access to 616 information at the time he put all this into work (1610 was destroyed it would be more work to study) so it would be easier to find a world very similar to 616 and then change it from there.
He likely has files on both, but I think Maker also acknowledges that 616 would be way more likely to cause him issues than 1610 would.
In ultimate invasion he steals reed files and then looks for artifacts representing factions of 616 like the krakoan seed or vibranium to make some sort of aimed forever gate. So he was intentionally looking for a world like 616, so that he didn't have to do the work and just use reed's files to change events
I adore how much Cap is over everyone's bullshit.
As a Brit, this was my takeaway from *Ultimate Invasion*. A true sign that The Maker’s world is truly messed up and must be stopped /s
Its refreshing to see that instead of the "everything is edgy" angle the original Ultimates went for, this one is more like, here's a dorky less narcissistic (for now) Tony, a poetic meathead Thor, Dr. Reed Doom, Cap is Cap, Hank is anxious from the get go. Love it so far.
I'm sure Reed Doom have a fuck load of Mental issues unlike our Doom, He does does not have superiority complex, It feels like He is a member of Doom Patrol
This is just my headcanon, but I feel like its setting up Reed Doom to be the "Ultimate" form of the Maker. Maker gives him all of the trauma that he basically had, with some modifications in the plan. Rather than developing the sociopathic tendencies of the Maker, he starts to go down the Doom route, becoming increasingly cunning, manipulative, etc. At the end, when they take down the Maker for good, the one that's standing will be Doom.
Well, they are clearly setting him up to be Reed at some point. The talk of a time machine, and Maker's time bubble being mearly a high wall to climb leave me to think that in the end of this, F4 are coming back to help.
Key to notice him not accepting failures and willing to run the Immortus boxes experiment until he got a desired outcome, something we usually see in both 616 Doom and Reed
Between Cap waking up like 80 years later to find out that the USA broke up just ~25 years after he was frozen and then being told some French guy related to Louis XIV is Captain Britain, he must be so fucking confused in the Hickman Ultimate Universe.
I love the potential of this Cap. Everyone else looks at this universe (outside of Ultimates and their view of the loss of super heroes) as the norm, and even we don't really know what the Maker did to change this world. Most of the time the readers know what cap has to learn in the stories, but we'll be able to learn along side him for this. So so cool.
So, he's Plantagenet Captain Britain?
William the Conqueror has entered the chat.
I am SO happy Cap still has some edge to him. He's not the jingoistic, "yeah America!" of 1610 Cap, but he's not a carbon copy of 616 either which was my biggest worry.
It's the "Cap still in the 1940s mindset" without the old Ultimate U's cringe.
Steve must be so damned confused, wondering what the hell happened after the War
Tony needs to go back to wearing red and Silver like his old Silver Centurion armor it just looks way better is what this issue proved to me.
Always loved the silver centurion
The *only* thing I have a problem with is someone unironically calling himself Iron Lad. Other than that, this is an amazing comic.
His dad was publicly known as Iron Man and he clearly loved his dad, why'd he not call himself Iron Lad?
I can't see any self respecting young person post-1950's calling themselves "lad".
Well you see, when the Maker was building this universe he manipulated things in a way Lad stayed in the public conscious.
There's actually a somewhat eyebrow-raising line in this comic where Tony says "I haven't mastered time. *Yet.*" Considering the original Iron Lad... quite the potential foreshadowing.
Well we already know he becomes Kang of this universe. From Ultimate Invasion
It's probably a play on the word "Ironclad".
Would you rather Iron Boy?
If anything - yes, absolutely.
I respect this answer.
Funnily enough that was the joke with the original Iron Lad. He thought the name, the public gave him was dorky and dumb.
finally there is a letter that stands for france
🅱️rance
Theyve still got some edge on this team which I appreciate. Wasp straight up flies through a guys brain and pukes with blood covered on her
Can someone give me a reading list on the new Ultimate's line so I can keep up with the story? I haven't read much comics before but this seems like a good time with this new story line and series.
Ultimate invasion and ultimate universe #1 Then read whatever book you prefer between spidey, xmen and panther and this
Thanks, is there a list of upcoming series in the ultimate universe or is this it for the moment?
It's this 4 for now
The F in “France” is really a B that’s been slightly erased. So it’s actually Brance.
I wonder if any of the Leaders will do a Heel-Face Turn and help the Ultimates. At this point they all seem irredeemable, but I guess we'll have to see if they're all as much of a piece of shit as Captain France over here.
maybe a mutant family, x-men not having a council member from the get go is weird. spider-man has captain britain and kingpin, panther has moon knights, ultimates the council in general, x-men meanwhile is about the "shadow king", so maybe that's where the crack happens.
Illyana seemed to be pretty down for the plan, so I'm not sure it'd be her, and Omega Red is not known for his altruism, but hey, new universe so who knows. Colossus didn't say much (or anything at all IIRC) in the meeting back in Ultimate Invasion, so maybe he'd be the one. But still, they're all active participants in all of this, so they're all complicit. I don't see any of the Hi no Kuni mutant Leaders turning to the Light Side, they all seem to be drinking the whole Sun Emperor Kool-Aid willingly.
The craziest thing about this issue is finding out that besides Spider-Man, and I guess Shocker, just about everyone Tony sent powers to accidentally killed themselves with them. Then it showed Captain Marvel seemingly exploding an entire block.
peter’s just built different like that
Is this a call back to Millar's Ultimate Cap saying "Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?"
Richard Lionheart moment.
It’s called Anglo-Norman you uncouth simpleton.
Captain Breton?
>gestures vaguely at the Norman invasion and how the royalty of England were French for hundreds of years.
Did they have Brexit in the new Ultimate universe?
a global one, there aren't countries anymore, just a bunch of super protectorate that takes turn at being the terrorist state
We cannot escape its gravity.
Honestly, as a Brit, the whole X-Men Krakoan era just gave me Brexit vibes lmao.
Ha. Except people wanted it, and there were some tangible benefits.
Brexit won with like... what, 50.X%, I think? Krakoa, meanwhile, was supposed to be like... 90%+ of the Mutant population. Plus, unlike Brexit, where it was, at best, a slight benefit (like, once accounting for compromises to keep some benefits in exchange for regulatory and administrative decoupling that was desired, it was never going to be that spectacular), Mutants got: Free housing, a never ending island vacation, free food, **immortality**, and a society that was A-OK with constant partying and orgies. Basically, Krakoa was truly utopian in many ways. (Also, the British weren't constantly being genocided by Europe, that's another important difference)
Oho ho!
>!the beginning of this comic mentions how they steal a frozen captain america and break thor out of an asgard prison...!< is that readable yet? or is it something we'll see flashbacks of?
That happens in Ultimate Universe from last year.
awesome. thank you!
I’ll pass on this run not feeling the lineup