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I have no idea what any of this means
ETA: I gave this some more thought. I knew it was a trans body dysmorphia thing. My hold up was the weird ants.
Then I thought more about it.
They’re the parents.
A PAIR of ANTS.
Idk for sure if that’s what OP was going for, but that’s what I got.
I'm going to start doing this. This is the most inoffensive and innocent way I've seen someone correct someone else's grammar. It's funny. It can't be interpreted as rude; and it serves as more of a reminder rather than a correction.
I appluad you! 👏🏽
I think it's more than that. As a nonbinary person, these types of experiences can feel extremely alienating. I think the unusual/scary design of the parents and other people plays on that feeling.
Also, it shows how OP identifies with neither their mother nor their father. There's a skinnier, shorter ant going into one room and a taller, wider ant going into another room. But OP isn't an ant at all, so how are they supposed to pick a room?
It's hard to explain, but the design choices definitely resonated with my own experiences.
I was always very confused about nonbinary people. Could you explain to this ignorant person how being nonbinary works? Do you identify a little with both genders? If so, is there a gender that you feel closer to?
Good questions! There's a variety of nonbinary gender identities.
[Intergender](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Intergender) people identify as somewhere between male and female. Some of them lean closer to one gender or another - for example, a [demigirl](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Demigender#Demigirl) may partially identify as a woman. [Agender](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Agender) people often don't really have a gender. I'm [genderfluid](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Genderfluid), which means I fluctuate between different gender identities (in my case, sometimes a man, sometimes a woman, but mostly eh whatever).
Different nonbinary people have very different feelings about their gender identities, so it can get complicated trying to understand all of them. The main things to know is that nonbinary people do not strictly identify as a man or a woman all the time.
so in your experience, what is it like to fluctuate between identifying more with gender identities? Is it like one day you feel more “manly” or “feminine” or something? What does that even mean?
Fuck, what does any of this shit even mean. I’m cishet and gender confuses the fuck out of me. I understand from an aggregate societal perspective, some activites are more associated with one of the gender binary than the other. Like how generally, boys or i guess amab trend towards getting involved with sports.
But then there’s the reinforcement aspect I guess? Like you’ve got media that reinforces sterotypes like barbie with “women are into fashion” but what the fuck is a woman???? What the fuck is a man?????
What even is any of this shit. The more i talk to people who are nonbinary the less i feel i understand about gender.
Sorry, this went from a question to a ramble. Gender is just….i don’t even know man
> What even is any of this shit.
You and us both, friend
I don't identify as genderfluid and I only "feel like a woman" when Shania Twain tells me to, but my gender presentation/interpretation does change based on controllable/uncontrollable variables
Mostly what it boils down to is "What's the tolerability level today?"
But life, for me, would be way easier if I could just say "I Have X Genitals Therefore Should Wear And Do X And Be Happy."
I never understood how non-binary people think that is how life works for binary people. It's not true and it's never been true either. It's such a strange idea.
To be clear: if you're referring to my last paragraph, that's not how I think cisgender people in general actively think of themselves or their decisions.
It's what would make *my* life easier, and what some others have been frustrated that I can't "just do."
Fuck that's confusing and I can understand why some folks would be put off by it. Hard to accept something that not even the affected person can explain. Best of luck though.
An experiment that helped my mom understand being trans, and that may help you get being non-binary a little bit:
Cisgender people, when trying to imagine being trans, imagine feeling like a gender other than the one they do. For example, a cis man may think “what would be like if I felt like I was actually a woman?” Instead consider “what if I felt like the gender I do now, but my appearance and the way the rest of the world treats me didn’t match that?”
This is a good exercise to grasp the experience of being trans better. If it works, consider next: What if being treated as your assigned gender (the one that typically aligns with your sex) felt uncomfortable or not right, but *so did being treated as the other?* That’s what being non-binary is like for a lot of NB people.
It’s not that I feel like “a non-binary,” it’s that while I can clearly say I am not a woman, self-identifying as a man (and looking masculine, and being treated like a man) also feels like being in a skin that doesn’t fit quite right.
As much as we try to understand to each other, there are times where you just can't truly understand someone else's experience and feelings unless you're in the same situation. I can close my eyes, but I can't truly understand what it's like to be born completely blind. Even if I became completely blind right now, I would still continue to have a clear picture of what blue is or what a chair looks like.
Something like genderfluidity can be really hard for people to understand because they don't have any remotely similar experiences with their gender identity. But that's okay, because you don't *need* to perfectly understand it to be polite and accepting.
Stylistic choice to present something scary, my interpretation is that it's supposed to also work double time as a way to present them as something familiar since ants are social and can easily be converted into human-like shaped
Probably non-binary specifically, given [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nonbinarymemes/s/sTqnPwzMjA) (and also this post being titled "neither")
Also, as an enby myself (well, genderfluid, but it's under the nonbinary umbrella,) the sinking feeling around gendered bathrooms and changing rooms because you're not *quite* either is... Very resonant.
Just curious, not trying to be a hater (I am one, but just in general. Not towards my fellow lgbtq folks) why do enbies not feel comfortable using the bathroom associated with their appearance/genitals?
not enby myself, but i am trans so thought i could maybe help seeing as no replies yet
pretty much i think its a lot like more binary trans stuff. i, as a transfem, hate being in male locker rooms more bc of the label "this is for guys" than the actual people in there. yeah i do hate changing around guys and all that, but its genuinely the label of it that sucks the most imo. it might be like that for enbies too i think
The "this is for guys" thing has got to be the most overlooked thing people don't seem to understand.
I am a guy, a fairly large one at that so no real fear of physical harm, but if the men's room was out of order... I'd still feel uncomfortable using the woman's room. Unless there was a sign saying it was now unisex, I would likely leave the building to find a different bathroom and even with the sign I would feel off. You'd need to be built like a linebacker to intimidate me but I would still rather walk to the next building. "Who is going to be mad I am in here"/"I don't belong in this room".
Now it should be incredibly easy to understand why an enby/trans person would feel off going into either restroom. No matter what is in their pants... this room wasn't designated FOR THEM. If you are non-binary, no restrooms are correct. If you are trans, one restroom is what you are... but the ones using that room say you were meant for the other one and act like you are lying to be a perv. The other restroom might match your birth equipment, but inside is that voice saying "THIS ISN'T THE ROOM FOR ME".
And in either case, there isn't the societal armor that I get of being CIS White Male but instead constant worry about who will scoff at what you are or worse.
So yeah.... even none enby/trans should be able to understand the basics of why they would feel uncomfortable. Unless you ignore all door signs and just use whichever one you are nearest to, take the discomfort of using the wrong restroom or fear someone will kick you out and dial it up to 11.
Actually you did quite well, ofc the social aspect is quite a lot of it, but there is also the danger of being hurt or making others uncomfortable as sometimes we don’t really pass as either, it could put us in danger and it also can make us really uncomfortable. In all seriousness though you did brilliantly on the explanation i just wanted add on a little and I’m sorry if it’s taken as rude, have a good day ^^^
The fact we live in a society where people have to worry about going to the fucking bathroom and being "In danger" is crazy. I'm a straight male (Male assigned at birth too which I think is Ciss? Idk) so I never had such problems but I really feel sad for those who are different and getting treated differently because of it. In my honest opinion people who are different should be treated the same as people who aren't y'know? Who cares if you're straight,gay,bi, etc or you identify as something else than you were assigned. It's bullshit we treat people worse or better depending on those things when we are all people at the end of the day no matter your personal choices. Like that poor girl (identify as a boy? I think) in Oklahoma who was basically beaten to death recently in the school bathroom for being forced to go to the gender they were assigned at birth. Now I don't think it has anything to do with being forced to go to one gender or the other bathroom I think it's because people are fucking horrible to each other especially those whom are different and that the parents reflect greatly on there childs murderous hateful actions. All in all I think people need to be more open minded and also just not give a shit what people identify as or their sexual preference (unless it's children and animals ofc) and just treat them like a fucking human because they are and so are you. This was my TED talk about how no one is special because of their body choices and we all are the same and should be treated equally thank you.
Not only are most to all public bathrooms quite gross, but it’s being pushed into a space and area which you don’t feel comfortable with, if you don’t like or want or feel comfortable talking about a body part, or you don’t feel comfortable with more binary labels, why would you feel comfortable being pushed into a room that is especially for that body part, or pushed into a lifelong role based on something you didn’t choose, it can be quite disheartening. I am nonbinary and i generally try to avoid all public bathrooms, not only because the uncomfortable and just plain wrong parts, but i also don’t pass as my assigned gender at birth, and that could get me hurt or make others uncomfortable and it usually makes me quite depressed being pushed into a space and role that isn’t mine.
Hot tip from a janitor: the 1st bathroom stall is the least used. Everyone thinks itd be the most used so they avoid it. And when everyone avoids the same stall because theyre afraid its dirty, it becomes the cleanest stall. Just for whenever you DO have to use the public bathroom
Understandable. I only like using them at work, and thats because I clean them. So I can clean it, wait for it to dry, and be first to use it so I know its good B-)
Sexual assault and abuse.
We see this a lot already where transphobic people will police the bathroom for anyone who doesn’t conform to a specific presentation and will actively assault people who might otherwise be a cis woman with a short haircut.
For the same reason trans people don't feel comfortable with using a bathroom that doesn't match their gender. For the same reason YOU don't feel comfortable using a bathroom that doesn't match YOUR gender. Because that's NOT what they are. They are nonbinary. They are not man, they are not woman. Telling them to use a space that is exclusively for a category they do not belong to is bad for a huge variety of reasons, including their own personal physical safety.
Unfortunately, a lot of cisgender people simply don't understand this, because they don't have a frame of reference to understand it, or they refuse to use the frame of reference they have. If you happen to be a person who's gender identity comfortably matches your sex assigned at birth, and you live in a social system designed to cater to people whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth, then you never really have to experience what it's like to be forced into categories and roles that directly clash with who you inherently are. And you never realize how PERVASIVE it is. You never notice how OFTEN it happens, and how FREQUENTLY those of us who don't fit that system have to find our own way to navigate it. And that navigation requires us to betray and sacrifice pieces of ourselves. It is non-stop, exhausting, painful, and overwhelming.
And we have no choice. Conform and suffer, or deviate and suffer. This is why America's systemic conceptualization of gender is narrow-minded and hurtful. This is why it needs to grow up and become healthier.
It's not just American. Where in the world are there non-gendered public ablution spaces? Legit question.
Another question would be, what would be a compromise for enbies in such situations? Other than dismantling the gender construct and related infrastructure, I mean. A third category of rooms for people who are 'neither'?
1) The overwhelming majority of my experience comes from living in America, so I don't presume to speak for other countries and cultures.
2) Just make gender neutral bathrooms the standard. We already have them at home. We already have them wherever there are porta-potties. We already have them in a limited number of businesses and workplaces. The open air mall near my home has a couple. The clinic I used to work at had them. Just make those the standard.
As a fellow enby i thought this comic was abt her being lesbian at first(specially with the thing the mom said abt them being only women), but yeah that makes more sense. Tho i never rly felt uncomfortable with gendered bathrooms tbh. I prolly wont get upset unless someone knowingly tries to box me in a certain gender or just flatout doesnt respect my identity, tho tbf thats just me
Ah, that makes sense. I figured to give the ol highschool literacy analysis try on understanding the idea behind the comic. Also enby sounds like a cute pokemon name. But I understand the lack of gender neutrality our society has.
What do you as a nonbinary person want then?
A third set of restroom facilities for non-binary people? Getting rid of gendered restrooms all together? Leave it as is?
>A third set of restroom facilities for non-binary people?
These kinda already exist? Gender-neutral bathrooms. But they're not found everywhere, and are typically only one stall.
>Leave it as is?
Absolutely not
>Getting rid of gendered restrooms all together?
Yes. More assaults happen from people assuming that someone is in the "wrong" bathroom than people actually being in the "wrong" bathroom.
Also, men's bathrooms are overall redundant. They're 80% urinals, which aren't as useful as a normal toilet, with only one or two stalls that are almost always occupied and/or not flushed.
Toilets are toilets and, imo, you should just be able to piss wherever you damn well please.
sure that's easy enough for \*bathrooms\*, but this comic was specifically about gym \*locker rooms/shower rooms\*. Does the same solution work, have a third one that anyone can go into and change/shower?
I mean, yeah. In my experience, locker rooms are basically just bathrooms + lockers + showers.
I'm on a co-ed college floor that has shower/changing areas as stalls. Just do that. There's no reason to have people get bare naked in the center of an empty bench area when stalls exist anyways.
I've also seen people in this thread, including Pizzacake, talk about family changing rooms in gyms and stuff.
I was leaning towards an identity crisis, maybe nonbinary since it's titled "neither"...as she doesn't see her really belonging to either gender I guess...
I could be wrong.
Isn’t there nearly universal trepidation entering a locker room for the first time, gender, binary status notwithstanding?
Edit: [In media](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowerShy), this is an extremely common trope:
> This trope is mostly found in series set in a school, where the character is a student who has to shower with his classmates after PE. Adolescent kids are often going through puberty and enduring the Appearance Angst that comes with it, so being naked in front of their peers understandably cranks those insecurities to extremes. It also inflicts Trans Tribulations on anybody with dysphoria.
I know for sure that I thought locker rooms were uncomfortable when I was younger. Being close to strangers who are more than twice your size, almost naked, in a cramped area isn't fun when you are like 7.
Yes, but, like, this particular instance is clearly about being nonbinary.
The title is "neither;" we see the emphasis on "that equipment is only for MEN;" Rosi has hesitation when presented the forked path of the men's or women's locker rooms, only to be told by their mother to go into the women's; when in the changing room, they say "but there's only women here," showing a discomfort not with the changing, but with the association of them and women; and, to top it all off, there's the daggers labelled "Woman" being stabbed at them.
Everything in this comic is painted with dysphoria, rather than typical "kids are shy of changing rooms"
And the mother assumes this is all she’s dealing with. “Just change in the stall if you’re embarrassed”
But if that’s all it was the kid wouldn’t be so upset or concerned once they’re in the stall. They could hide while changing no problem. Plus the “women” comment being like knives all around makes it seem more like a gender oriented thing. Not just embarrassment.
I assumed it’s about being transmasc with the way the kid looked at the boys locker room. But it might be about non binary. Or both I suppose.
This depends heavily on region. It's not something you'll see in the UK or the US (at least today, I have no idea of the history there) but I have chatted with a few folks who live in less progressive countries where the weightlifting equipment is limited to men only. One friend even got lectured by her gym instructor that weightlifting was *dangerous* for women and that's why they do things that way. In practice this is done by having male/female sections of the gym, where the male section has all the weight equipment and the female section only cardio.
There's an author's note in the comic that some equipment was men-only at the time; I don't know when or where they grew up, but there's no reason to assume they're lying.
Nana is an NB person, and this about the character struggling in a very gendered environment. The ant creatures are also caricatures of Nana’s parents too (pair of ants, parents, yea).
Basically, Nana being called a girl repeatedly has given them a lot of grief here (they don’t identify as female but are repeatedly misgendered regardless)
kid-me hated public showers, the concept just felt gross and slimy and uncomfortable, idk what this comic is supposed to be about, probably about being trans but either way i fucking hate public showers, what dumbass thought "here's a tiled room with big faucets, go in with the wet people"
Reminds me of this meme I found somewhere on Reddit
https://preview.redd.it/1xrlwq85nqmc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b47824434851c0453a930020b92fdb1dab41da3d
“For 3 million [the cost of Margaret Thatcher’s funeral] you could give everyone in Scotland a shovel, and we could dig a hole so deep we could hand her over to Satan in person.” -Frankie Boyle
I definitely think gender-neutral bathrooms/changing rooms are awesome and more places should have them. They help out so many people, not even just non-binary and transgender folks. I mean, so many parents have kids that are of a different gender that wouldn’t be able to change themselves. Sometimes those bathrooms are labeled under “family”, which is just fine.
One of the gyms I visited once had a big one by their pool it was amazing! A big open space, with lockers and benches, and then lots of large stalls (more like small rooms) for changing in. It was so nice to have my husband and parents be able to all help get our kids ready for the pool. My only gripe was that there was no door in the entryway to the rest of the facility, so it felt absolutely frigid coming out of the pool area.
My husband and I both have experienced sexual harassment at our gym in the past in the sexed locker rooms, so we started using the family room.
Until we were told we weren't allowed to do that because we weren't a "family" and they were "concerned that a male and female non-family unit would have relations in the family locker room." (Exact words from the staff)
We were kicked from comfort because they couldn't believe that a man and woman can be a family unit, and that we were incapable of changing in a room together without having sex. In a public space. IN A LOCKER ROOM WHERE PEOPLE BRING THEIR CHILDREN.
I sort of get where they were coming from; but it doesn't make it hurt any less, especially after I had brought up the harassment to management multiple times and nothing was done.
I think that’s more people gatekeeping which forms of exercise belong to which genders. Weight lifting being masculine while step masters and the like being feminine.
Eh, I’m sure you can find exceptions on TikTok, but the vast majority of people are just doing their workouts and don’t give a shit about the gender of who’s on the equipment.
I’ve belonged to 5 different gyms over the years and never heard or saw any gender restrictions on equipment. I’m assuming it’s an older generation mindset.
the closest you'll get is on college campuses, where the racks may be separated from everything else (which has more to do with club teams working out together and by extension being super loud and obnoxious and grab-assy than anything else)
The bigotry was to push home the gender dysphoria theme of the comic and all, but also it's an unfortunate truth to life as a trans person that we cant just...ignore. I'm glad you live a life where it doesn't affect you and seems "whack", but it's not the truth we live.
I've had anywhere from the casual, back-handed "but that's a BOY haircut!" to full-blown Slur City "man, what's with all the [redacted]s around here?!" said to and/or about me.
I don't want to invalidate the artist's experience, maybe the comic is just about a personal experience and not a broader statement? Because I highly doubt that people are regularly getting confronted for using the "wrong" equipment for their perceived gender at the gym. I feel like we'd be hearing about it a lot more.
I also think it's totally normal to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable getting undressed in front of any gender, potentially even more so with the one you identify as.
I think communal bathing/change rooms are very cultural and haven't been a mainstay in the west for a long time. If it was literally the only way to bathe and had been for decades, I doubt many people would think twice about it.
The real statement here is that the parent didn't recognize and address the child's anxiety, and didn't stand up for them for using the "wrong" equipment.
I wouldn’t call weightlifting itself masculine. For actual gym goers there are some weight training exercises that have a bit more lean to one gender or another (honestly mostly just the idea that women enjoy exercises that work the glutes) but everybody still does the same workouts and gender isn’t really a factor.
I've been lifting for 8 years and never heard this. I understand that there are some exercises the men do more than women and vice versa, but I've never heard of an exercise that is considered masculine or feminine
I think the op was looking for two different situations for the character to be uncomfortable in, the women's locker room worked but needed a men's only area. Those don't exist other than the locker room as well and they had to stretch something. Because I've been in many gyms myself and have only ever seen segregated equipment in "women's only" areas!
Women get pondered to more often with segregated areas tbh.
The artist had to come up with something I suppose
>are there really gims that separate tools between genders?
One of the gyms I went to had a women only section for those who didn't feel comfortable working out in the general area, that's about it.
The one I go to now is a smaller operation where the changing room is just a 10' x 10' room with a chair, and all the equipment is general use.
There's a note that says so, and I don't believe the author is lying. It might be a cultural thing. Some people believe women shouldn't be muscular and strong, since that's a masculine trait, so maybe that is why?
In strict Muslim-majority countries, the whole gym might be separated in two, or have rooms available for certain genders for periods of time, for example.
im so confused by the amount of people not reading or outright ignoring that comment. op might be older and from a country thats behind in gender rights to boot but it clearly states that the equipment was segregated
No.
Whenever I am at the gym there are typically just as many women on the flat/incline bench as there are men, and if there are less it's not because men are telling women not to.
Like I sorta get the locker room bit *sorta*?
But everything else is a strawman and a half, and kids don't belong at a weight lifting facility anyway so the comic is kinda all sorts of weird
>are there really gims that separate tools between genders
Former gym rat here, no there's no actual rule in most gyms but there's a cultural social norm that men use the free weights and women use the machines. It's mostly sexism, there's no rule or science fact that says women shouldn't use free weights or men use machines.
I see young kids at the gym all the time with piss poor form. Yeah they need to learn but the problem is they aren’t there with people who know what the hell they’re doing.
In europe most gyms are 18+ with caveats.
Main point being that their body isn’t developed fully and working out the wrong way could do pretty bad damage, especially if they dont know what they are doing
And let’s be real. A kid misbehaving or unsupervised in a gym is pretty disruptive and potentially dangerous.
In my gym just yesterday I saw kids probably age 10-13 doing some bodyweight exercises unsupervised in an area designated for it on my Gym’s second floor. There was a rack with some plates in this area. One kid took a 45lb plate and put it on his back and was doing squats. But to take it down he had to walk over to a railing over a walkway. And he was supporting the weight on the railing. And then turned around holding the plate against the railing so that he could hold in front of his body and put it down. It did not seem like it would have taken much for that 45lb plate to get accidentally pushed over the railing.
Nope it's about safety. In general kids aren't strong enough or mature enough to handle the weight. They could try running with them, throwing them, using them incorrectly in a way that harms themselves. Not saying adults are free of these mistakes but in general they are a lot more calm when working out in the gym. While kids often get the zoomies.
Its not the gym policing the equipment, but the patrons. I was mocked as a young man while doing a circuit for using the machine where you start out with your legs spread and squeeze your thighs togethor because "only women are suppose to work those muscles", even though they are damn handy when your working high up on a ladder. Same kind of people would mock a young woman for doing bench presses.
This feels like it was either from a while ago or from outside North America/Europe. This would face a discrimination lawsuit in the EU/US/Can at least.
So...are a lot of y'all just skipping the little author's note that some equipment was restricted to men-only *at the time*? Literally right there on the comic panel.
"Yeah guys it totally happened at the time, at another school in Canada"
Unless this is set in an extremely repressed culture or in the 1950s, this is some nonsense.
There's so many instances of actual sexism and creepiness that happens regularly at gyms, I don't understand why this unrealistic scenario was used
Trans guy here and related hard, especially with the part about the bench being a "man thing". To me this reads as an early experience of gender dysphoria but of course that's my lense.
Trans woman and I really can’t see this as anything but gender dysphoria when you are a kid/teen. So relatable too (the other way around for me obviously lmao).
I'm transfem and related hard, I just felt that pain of incorrect gender, forcibly being told who I am, etc. I've never been in this exact situation but I understand it anyways.
Its most likely about gender dyphoria. OP titled this neither, meaning they are non binary and feels uncomfortable when going to rooms with only women or using equipment only for men.
Who the fuck is gender gatekeeping in gyms? Never seen that in the gym where i go and would shut that down real quick if i would see it. We are all here to become the best version of ourself.
I've been going to gyms almost every week for the last 31 years, in the states, all over Asia and all over Europe, even in one African country. I've never ever seen gender restrictive equipment. It's pretty straightforward at any gym you go to that kids under 15 aren't allowed without direct adult supervision, but that's generally gym-wide. Also, in that time I can probably count the times I've showered at the gym instead of home on one hand.
I like your art style OP but I've never encountered the gendered equipment issue, and I've never experienced anyone who just really pushed for showering in the gym, but that's just me. Good luck on your personal journey and I hope you find peace and a non-binary gym or at least a family bathroom.
OP is lying or, as a child, misunderstood the experience. I've got a feeling that age was an issue, not gender. This comic reeks of a teenager grappling with identity issues and trying to enhance the drama of their life
I mean, technically speaking, no machines are gender restricted, and there are tons of women who can out bench press me by miles.
The only thing is age restriction, the soonest you should start going to the gym is 14, otherwise the load can damage your growth, and even then some machines or stations should be avoided
There's a note on that page that in this particular instance, it was gender restricted. Not sure what year or country, but I can certainly believe that some places would have that.
Can’t imagine what that’s like OP I hope things get easier. I also applaud you for telling your story. I think there should be more stories about women transitioning as well as men.
Public showers, what a shitty concept. No privacy, no option to shower by yourself. Thanks for making showers unavailable for introverted and anxious people. The comic hits right home. Very relatable. Good job, well done.
I get that not everyone is trans, and not everyone suffers from body dysphoria, but I don't see how people are having such a hard time understanding the comic? Or why people are just ignoring the note on the gendered equipment? Everything was made pretty obvious– maybe I'm overthinking
Loved this Rosicae. You made some real fun and wonderful choices despite the comics topic and tone. Loved the color palette too. Fantastic and gonna follow you for more.
That's why I hate gym... Besides the woman/man changing room (I'm non binary) there's the fact that I don't know how to make a workout schedule and the one that they give you is always the gendered one. I get that women start from lower weights but why different workouts? I want to be strong, I don't want a big butt or something like that
Hey you have tried chatgpt? Im a beginner to working out wirh machines n I ask the AI to give a simple routine. You can even ask it to do one based one arms, legs then chest or whatever routine.
"I haven't seen any gender gatekeeping so it must not be real" y'all really do be using your anecdotal evidence to refute someone's lived gender oppression. Even if it only happened at one gym ever to this person, it's a symptom of a society that forces people into these arbitrary categories of self expression. That's the point of the comic. please stop going on about how great you seem to think gym culture is.
I never had gender issues but I always felt super uncomfortable when I had to go to public changing rooms for swimming events and such
Idk if the comic is about gender stuff or simply being uncomfy in changing rooms but I get ya regardless, feeling uncomfy when everyone else acts like you shouldn’t be makes the situation even worse and the wish to avoid it makes the time take longer when you eventually have to go back
To the Non Binary gremlins out there.
Yall are valid. Anyone who says or pretends otherwise, can go fuck themselves.
You matter. Just like everyone else.
I know this is about gender dysphoria but I felt the *exact* same way when I was a kid. Why do I have to shower in a room full of strangers? Why do I have to be judged for doing something I'm not "supposed to", by the petty standards of some gal/guy? Fuck that man.
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I have no idea what any of this means ETA: I gave this some more thought. I knew it was a trans body dysmorphia thing. My hold up was the weird ants. Then I thought more about it. They’re the parents. A PAIR of ANTS. Idk for sure if that’s what OP was going for, but that’s what I got.
I like you're take. It struck me as like a reverse Kafka-esque thing... the alienation from one's own family.
Y'roue*
I'm going to start doing this. This is the most inoffensive and innocent way I've seen someone correct someone else's grammar. It's funny. It can't be interpreted as rude; and it serves as more of a reminder rather than a correction. I appluad you! 👏🏽
“Youy’re”
😅
BA DUM TSSSSS :D
You rascal!
What a silly goose
I think it's more than that. As a nonbinary person, these types of experiences can feel extremely alienating. I think the unusual/scary design of the parents and other people plays on that feeling. Also, it shows how OP identifies with neither their mother nor their father. There's a skinnier, shorter ant going into one room and a taller, wider ant going into another room. But OP isn't an ant at all, so how are they supposed to pick a room? It's hard to explain, but the design choices definitely resonated with my own experiences.
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I was always very confused about nonbinary people. Could you explain to this ignorant person how being nonbinary works? Do you identify a little with both genders? If so, is there a gender that you feel closer to?
Good questions! There's a variety of nonbinary gender identities. [Intergender](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Intergender) people identify as somewhere between male and female. Some of them lean closer to one gender or another - for example, a [demigirl](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Demigender#Demigirl) may partially identify as a woman. [Agender](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Agender) people often don't really have a gender. I'm [genderfluid](https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Genderfluid), which means I fluctuate between different gender identities (in my case, sometimes a man, sometimes a woman, but mostly eh whatever). Different nonbinary people have very different feelings about their gender identities, so it can get complicated trying to understand all of them. The main things to know is that nonbinary people do not strictly identify as a man or a woman all the time.
Okay, thanks for the explanation!
so in your experience, what is it like to fluctuate between identifying more with gender identities? Is it like one day you feel more “manly” or “feminine” or something? What does that even mean? Fuck, what does any of this shit even mean. I’m cishet and gender confuses the fuck out of me. I understand from an aggregate societal perspective, some activites are more associated with one of the gender binary than the other. Like how generally, boys or i guess amab trend towards getting involved with sports. But then there’s the reinforcement aspect I guess? Like you’ve got media that reinforces sterotypes like barbie with “women are into fashion” but what the fuck is a woman???? What the fuck is a man????? What even is any of this shit. The more i talk to people who are nonbinary the less i feel i understand about gender. Sorry, this went from a question to a ramble. Gender is just….i don’t even know man
> What even is any of this shit. You and us both, friend I don't identify as genderfluid and I only "feel like a woman" when Shania Twain tells me to, but my gender presentation/interpretation does change based on controllable/uncontrollable variables Mostly what it boils down to is "What's the tolerability level today?" But life, for me, would be way easier if I could just say "I Have X Genitals Therefore Should Wear And Do X And Be Happy."
I never understood how non-binary people think that is how life works for binary people. It's not true and it's never been true either. It's such a strange idea.
To be clear: if you're referring to my last paragraph, that's not how I think cisgender people in general actively think of themselves or their decisions. It's what would make *my* life easier, and what some others have been frustrated that I can't "just do."
But that goes for literally everyone. I truly don't understand why that's specific to non cisgender people.
Fuck that's confusing and I can understand why some folks would be put off by it. Hard to accept something that not even the affected person can explain. Best of luck though.
An experiment that helped my mom understand being trans, and that may help you get being non-binary a little bit: Cisgender people, when trying to imagine being trans, imagine feeling like a gender other than the one they do. For example, a cis man may think “what would be like if I felt like I was actually a woman?” Instead consider “what if I felt like the gender I do now, but my appearance and the way the rest of the world treats me didn’t match that?” This is a good exercise to grasp the experience of being trans better. If it works, consider next: What if being treated as your assigned gender (the one that typically aligns with your sex) felt uncomfortable or not right, but *so did being treated as the other?* That’s what being non-binary is like for a lot of NB people. It’s not that I feel like “a non-binary,” it’s that while I can clearly say I am not a woman, self-identifying as a man (and looking masculine, and being treated like a man) also feels like being in a skin that doesn’t fit quite right.
As much as we try to understand to each other, there are times where you just can't truly understand someone else's experience and feelings unless you're in the same situation. I can close my eyes, but I can't truly understand what it's like to be born completely blind. Even if I became completely blind right now, I would still continue to have a clear picture of what blue is or what a chair looks like. Something like genderfluidity can be really hard for people to understand because they don't have any remotely similar experiences with their gender identity. But that's okay, because you don't *need* to perfectly understand it to be polite and accepting.
What is this a comic book for pair ants?
I don’t really get whats going on. Im not hating on it btw I’m just confused
Same. Waiting on OP but, transgender comic? Or perhaps an identity crisis? That is how I interpreted it.
I was guessing that but what’s with the ant things?
It's a thing that Rosi does, often with adult characters while making comics about their childhood.
Stylistic choice to present something scary, my interpretation is that it's supposed to also work double time as a way to present them as something familiar since ants are social and can easily be converted into human-like shaped
They’re her parents. A pair of ants. A parenting pair of ants.
I'm guessing ambiguity? Unknown of the world around you?
Alienation
Antnation
Alien Ant Farm
You okay, Annie?
And just like the movies, we’ll play out our last scene
Felt like the reverse of Oyasumi Punpun
It's a thing that artists like this like to do where they draw people they don't like as black figures/creatures to dehumanize them
I'd presume feeling alienated with adults, hence the alien designs to them?
Probably non-binary specifically, given [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nonbinarymemes/s/sTqnPwzMjA) (and also this post being titled "neither") Also, as an enby myself (well, genderfluid, but it's under the nonbinary umbrella,) the sinking feeling around gendered bathrooms and changing rooms because you're not *quite* either is... Very resonant.
Just curious, not trying to be a hater (I am one, but just in general. Not towards my fellow lgbtq folks) why do enbies not feel comfortable using the bathroom associated with their appearance/genitals?
not enby myself, but i am trans so thought i could maybe help seeing as no replies yet pretty much i think its a lot like more binary trans stuff. i, as a transfem, hate being in male locker rooms more bc of the label "this is for guys" than the actual people in there. yeah i do hate changing around guys and all that, but its genuinely the label of it that sucks the most imo. it might be like that for enbies too i think
The "this is for guys" thing has got to be the most overlooked thing people don't seem to understand. I am a guy, a fairly large one at that so no real fear of physical harm, but if the men's room was out of order... I'd still feel uncomfortable using the woman's room. Unless there was a sign saying it was now unisex, I would likely leave the building to find a different bathroom and even with the sign I would feel off. You'd need to be built like a linebacker to intimidate me but I would still rather walk to the next building. "Who is going to be mad I am in here"/"I don't belong in this room". Now it should be incredibly easy to understand why an enby/trans person would feel off going into either restroom. No matter what is in their pants... this room wasn't designated FOR THEM. If you are non-binary, no restrooms are correct. If you are trans, one restroom is what you are... but the ones using that room say you were meant for the other one and act like you are lying to be a perv. The other restroom might match your birth equipment, but inside is that voice saying "THIS ISN'T THE ROOM FOR ME". And in either case, there isn't the societal armor that I get of being CIS White Male but instead constant worry about who will scoff at what you are or worse. So yeah.... even none enby/trans should be able to understand the basics of why they would feel uncomfortable. Unless you ignore all door signs and just use whichever one you are nearest to, take the discomfort of using the wrong restroom or fear someone will kick you out and dial it up to 11.
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Actually you did quite well, ofc the social aspect is quite a lot of it, but there is also the danger of being hurt or making others uncomfortable as sometimes we don’t really pass as either, it could put us in danger and it also can make us really uncomfortable. In all seriousness though you did brilliantly on the explanation i just wanted add on a little and I’m sorry if it’s taken as rude, have a good day ^^^
The fact we live in a society where people have to worry about going to the fucking bathroom and being "In danger" is crazy. I'm a straight male (Male assigned at birth too which I think is Ciss? Idk) so I never had such problems but I really feel sad for those who are different and getting treated differently because of it. In my honest opinion people who are different should be treated the same as people who aren't y'know? Who cares if you're straight,gay,bi, etc or you identify as something else than you were assigned. It's bullshit we treat people worse or better depending on those things when we are all people at the end of the day no matter your personal choices. Like that poor girl (identify as a boy? I think) in Oklahoma who was basically beaten to death recently in the school bathroom for being forced to go to the gender they were assigned at birth. Now I don't think it has anything to do with being forced to go to one gender or the other bathroom I think it's because people are fucking horrible to each other especially those whom are different and that the parents reflect greatly on there childs murderous hateful actions. All in all I think people need to be more open minded and also just not give a shit what people identify as or their sexual preference (unless it's children and animals ofc) and just treat them like a fucking human because they are and so are you. This was my TED talk about how no one is special because of their body choices and we all are the same and should be treated equally thank you.
If your referring to nex who was murdered, he told family he was non binary and went by they them, but at school used he him.
Gender is not equal to body parts or appearance, those things just accompany it.
Not only are most to all public bathrooms quite gross, but it’s being pushed into a space and area which you don’t feel comfortable with, if you don’t like or want or feel comfortable talking about a body part, or you don’t feel comfortable with more binary labels, why would you feel comfortable being pushed into a room that is especially for that body part, or pushed into a lifelong role based on something you didn’t choose, it can be quite disheartening. I am nonbinary and i generally try to avoid all public bathrooms, not only because the uncomfortable and just plain wrong parts, but i also don’t pass as my assigned gender at birth, and that could get me hurt or make others uncomfortable and it usually makes me quite depressed being pushed into a space and role that isn’t mine.
Hot tip from a janitor: the 1st bathroom stall is the least used. Everyone thinks itd be the most used so they avoid it. And when everyone avoids the same stall because theyre afraid its dirty, it becomes the cleanest stall. Just for whenever you DO have to use the public bathroom
This rule is reversed on nightclubs as drunk people don't think about it and want to use the bath as soon as possible.
Tysm i try to avoid all of them but this is good to know
Understandable. I only like using them at work, and thats because I clean them. So I can clean it, wait for it to dry, and be first to use it so I know its good B-)
Well that’s just brilliant O:
One of the tiny perks of being a cleaner lol. Theres not many. And the perks are small like this one. But theyre there!
Most useful thing I've read on reddit today...
Sexual assault and abuse. We see this a lot already where transphobic people will police the bathroom for anyone who doesn’t conform to a specific presentation and will actively assault people who might otherwise be a cis woman with a short haircut.
For the same reason trans people don't feel comfortable with using a bathroom that doesn't match their gender. For the same reason YOU don't feel comfortable using a bathroom that doesn't match YOUR gender. Because that's NOT what they are. They are nonbinary. They are not man, they are not woman. Telling them to use a space that is exclusively for a category they do not belong to is bad for a huge variety of reasons, including their own personal physical safety. Unfortunately, a lot of cisgender people simply don't understand this, because they don't have a frame of reference to understand it, or they refuse to use the frame of reference they have. If you happen to be a person who's gender identity comfortably matches your sex assigned at birth, and you live in a social system designed to cater to people whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth, then you never really have to experience what it's like to be forced into categories and roles that directly clash with who you inherently are. And you never realize how PERVASIVE it is. You never notice how OFTEN it happens, and how FREQUENTLY those of us who don't fit that system have to find our own way to navigate it. And that navigation requires us to betray and sacrifice pieces of ourselves. It is non-stop, exhausting, painful, and overwhelming. And we have no choice. Conform and suffer, or deviate and suffer. This is why America's systemic conceptualization of gender is narrow-minded and hurtful. This is why it needs to grow up and become healthier.
It's not just American. Where in the world are there non-gendered public ablution spaces? Legit question. Another question would be, what would be a compromise for enbies in such situations? Other than dismantling the gender construct and related infrastructure, I mean. A third category of rooms for people who are 'neither'?
1) The overwhelming majority of my experience comes from living in America, so I don't presume to speak for other countries and cultures. 2) Just make gender neutral bathrooms the standard. We already have them at home. We already have them wherever there are porta-potties. We already have them in a limited number of businesses and workplaces. The open air mall near my home has a couple. The clinic I used to work at had them. Just make those the standard.
1) That's fair. 2) I'm all for that. But I meant in reference to the comic's scenario: community showers and changing rooms.
As a fellow enby i thought this comic was abt her being lesbian at first(specially with the thing the mom said abt them being only women), but yeah that makes more sense. Tho i never rly felt uncomfortable with gendered bathrooms tbh. I prolly wont get upset unless someone knowingly tries to box me in a certain gender or just flatout doesnt respect my identity, tho tbf thats just me
Ah, that makes sense. I figured to give the ol highschool literacy analysis try on understanding the idea behind the comic. Also enby sounds like a cute pokemon name. But I understand the lack of gender neutrality our society has.
Genderfluid is on the enby spectrum? Wow, guess I should learn more abt my own fuckin gender 😭
Ohhh wait, are they a Latin-enby?
Why do people type out enby, when NB is shorter and more clear to people not in the know that it's shorthand?
Imo, "enby" is just cuter.
Fair enough
What do you as a nonbinary person want then? A third set of restroom facilities for non-binary people? Getting rid of gendered restrooms all together? Leave it as is?
>A third set of restroom facilities for non-binary people? These kinda already exist? Gender-neutral bathrooms. But they're not found everywhere, and are typically only one stall. >Leave it as is? Absolutely not >Getting rid of gendered restrooms all together? Yes. More assaults happen from people assuming that someone is in the "wrong" bathroom than people actually being in the "wrong" bathroom. Also, men's bathrooms are overall redundant. They're 80% urinals, which aren't as useful as a normal toilet, with only one or two stalls that are almost always occupied and/or not flushed. Toilets are toilets and, imo, you should just be able to piss wherever you damn well please.
sure that's easy enough for \*bathrooms\*, but this comic was specifically about gym \*locker rooms/shower rooms\*. Does the same solution work, have a third one that anyone can go into and change/shower?
I mean, yeah. In my experience, locker rooms are basically just bathrooms + lockers + showers. I'm on a co-ed college floor that has shower/changing areas as stalls. Just do that. There's no reason to have people get bare naked in the center of an empty bench area when stalls exist anyways. I've also seen people in this thread, including Pizzacake, talk about family changing rooms in gyms and stuff.
fair enough, then, I'd support it.
I was leaning towards an identity crisis, maybe nonbinary since it's titled "neither"...as she doesn't see her really belonging to either gender I guess... I could be wrong.
I think it's a non-binary one.
I assumed trans, but seeing the title of "Neither," I'm thinking the character is non-binary specifically.
Based on the title of the post I think the protagonist is nonbinary.
Being NB
Isn’t there nearly universal trepidation entering a locker room for the first time, gender, binary status notwithstanding? Edit: [In media](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowerShy), this is an extremely common trope: > This trope is mostly found in series set in a school, where the character is a student who has to shower with his classmates after PE. Adolescent kids are often going through puberty and enduring the Appearance Angst that comes with it, so being naked in front of their peers understandably cranks those insecurities to extremes. It also inflicts Trans Tribulations on anybody with dysphoria.
I know for sure that I thought locker rooms were uncomfortable when I was younger. Being close to strangers who are more than twice your size, almost naked, in a cramped area isn't fun when you are like 7.
Yes, but, like, this particular instance is clearly about being nonbinary. The title is "neither;" we see the emphasis on "that equipment is only for MEN;" Rosi has hesitation when presented the forked path of the men's or women's locker rooms, only to be told by their mother to go into the women's; when in the changing room, they say "but there's only women here," showing a discomfort not with the changing, but with the association of them and women; and, to top it all off, there's the daggers labelled "Woman" being stabbed at them. Everything in this comic is painted with dysphoria, rather than typical "kids are shy of changing rooms"
Sure, but if you actually read the comic it's pretty blatantly about gender dysphoria
And the mother assumes this is all she’s dealing with. “Just change in the stall if you’re embarrassed” But if that’s all it was the kid wouldn’t be so upset or concerned once they’re in the stall. They could hide while changing no problem. Plus the “women” comment being like knives all around makes it seem more like a gender oriented thing. Not just embarrassment. I assumed it’s about being transmasc with the way the kid looked at the boys locker room. But it might be about non binary. Or both I suppose.
Well since it says neither I'll assume it means OP is Non binary. Also the fuc kind of gyms have equipment for specific gender that's kinda sexist
No gyms have gendered equipment.
This depends heavily on region. It's not something you'll see in the UK or the US (at least today, I have no idea of the history there) but I have chatted with a few folks who live in less progressive countries where the weightlifting equipment is limited to men only. One friend even got lectured by her gym instructor that weightlifting was *dangerous* for women and that's why they do things that way. In practice this is done by having male/female sections of the gym, where the male section has all the weight equipment and the female section only cardio. There's an author's note in the comic that some equipment was men-only at the time; I don't know when or where they grew up, but there's no reason to assume they're lying.
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They’re trans and non binary and comic people called them a woman
Comic ants?
Ants are people too
It’s okay, Reddit will think it’s genius *because* it doesn’t make sense
I'm not real good with interpretation of Art and shit like that. So I was kind of just like "hwut?"
Nana is an NB person, and this about the character struggling in a very gendered environment. The ant creatures are also caricatures of Nana’s parents too (pair of ants, parents, yea). Basically, Nana being called a girl repeatedly has given them a lot of grief here (they don’t identify as female but are repeatedly misgendered regardless)
kid-me hated public showers, the concept just felt gross and slimy and uncomfortable, idk what this comic is supposed to be about, probably about being trans but either way i fucking hate public showers, what dumbass thought "here's a tiled room with big faucets, go in with the wet people"
Gotta find a gym that has a third, gender-neutral, family-friendly change room.
Reminds me of this meme I found somewhere on Reddit https://preview.redd.it/1xrlwq85nqmc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b47824434851c0453a930020b92fdb1dab41da3d
Fuck that's good.
Margaret Thatcher's most progressive move was dying, a move that benefited all, including the LGBT+ community Thank you, Marge
“For 3 million [the cost of Margaret Thatcher’s funeral] you could give everyone in Scotland a shovel, and we could dig a hole so deep we could hand her over to Satan in person.” -Frankie Boyle
Hold on, I gotta take an Iron Shit!
I love it. Now do Reagan.
And Rush Limbaugh
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Gyms should have bathrooms based on what's the strongest thing you can crush with your thighs
I definitely think gender-neutral bathrooms/changing rooms are awesome and more places should have them. They help out so many people, not even just non-binary and transgender folks. I mean, so many parents have kids that are of a different gender that wouldn’t be able to change themselves. Sometimes those bathrooms are labeled under “family”, which is just fine.
One of the gyms I visited once had a big one by their pool it was amazing! A big open space, with lockers and benches, and then lots of large stalls (more like small rooms) for changing in. It was so nice to have my husband and parents be able to all help get our kids ready for the pool. My only gripe was that there was no door in the entryway to the rest of the facility, so it felt absolutely frigid coming out of the pool area.
My husband and I both have experienced sexual harassment at our gym in the past in the sexed locker rooms, so we started using the family room. Until we were told we weren't allowed to do that because we weren't a "family" and they were "concerned that a male and female non-family unit would have relations in the family locker room." (Exact words from the staff) We were kicked from comfort because they couldn't believe that a man and woman can be a family unit, and that we were incapable of changing in a room together without having sex. In a public space. IN A LOCKER ROOM WHERE PEOPLE BRING THEIR CHILDREN. I sort of get where they were coming from; but it doesn't make it hurt any less, especially after I had brought up the harassment to management multiple times and nothing was done.
are there really gims that separate tools between genders? I understand why they separate the locker rooms, but what's they point of tools?
I think that’s more people gatekeeping which forms of exercise belong to which genders. Weight lifting being masculine while step masters and the like being feminine.
Eh, I’m sure you can find exceptions on TikTok, but the vast majority of people are just doing their workouts and don’t give a shit about the gender of who’s on the equipment.
I’ve belonged to 5 different gyms over the years and never heard or saw any gender restrictions on equipment. I’m assuming it’s an older generation mindset.
the closest you'll get is on college campuses, where the racks may be separated from everything else (which has more to do with club teams working out together and by extension being super loud and obnoxious and grab-assy than anything else)
I've seen some light discrimination/shit-talking for using the "wrong" equipment, but it was the people running their mouths in the wrong.
The vast majority probably don't care, but all it takes to cause a problem is one bigot who does care
Framing one bigot that is already looked down upon as a societal problem is whack
The bigotry was to push home the gender dysphoria theme of the comic and all, but also it's an unfortunate truth to life as a trans person that we cant just...ignore. I'm glad you live a life where it doesn't affect you and seems "whack", but it's not the truth we live. I've had anywhere from the casual, back-handed "but that's a BOY haircut!" to full-blown Slur City "man, what's with all the [redacted]s around here?!" said to and/or about me.
I don't want to invalidate the artist's experience, maybe the comic is just about a personal experience and not a broader statement? Because I highly doubt that people are regularly getting confronted for using the "wrong" equipment for their perceived gender at the gym. I feel like we'd be hearing about it a lot more. I also think it's totally normal to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable getting undressed in front of any gender, potentially even more so with the one you identify as. I think communal bathing/change rooms are very cultural and haven't been a mainstay in the west for a long time. If it was literally the only way to bathe and had been for decades, I doubt many people would think twice about it. The real statement here is that the parent didn't recognize and address the child's anxiety, and didn't stand up for them for using the "wrong" equipment.
I wouldn’t call weightlifting itself masculine. For actual gym goers there are some weight training exercises that have a bit more lean to one gender or another (honestly mostly just the idea that women enjoy exercises that work the glutes) but everybody still does the same workouts and gender isn’t really a factor.
I've been lifting for 8 years and never heard this. I understand that there are some exercises the men do more than women and vice versa, but I've never heard of an exercise that is considered masculine or feminine
I think the op was looking for two different situations for the character to be uncomfortable in, the women's locker room worked but needed a men's only area. Those don't exist other than the locker room as well and they had to stretch something. Because I've been in many gyms myself and have only ever seen segregated equipment in "women's only" areas! Women get pondered to more often with segregated areas tbh. The artist had to come up with something I suppose
There’s a tenacious D song that may be what you’re looking for. Women can do it, but it’s vastly male dominated.
>are there really gims that separate tools between genders? One of the gyms I went to had a women only section for those who didn't feel comfortable working out in the general area, that's about it. The one I go to now is a smaller operation where the changing room is just a 10' x 10' room with a chair, and all the equipment is general use.
There's a note that says so, and I don't believe the author is lying. It might be a cultural thing. Some people believe women shouldn't be muscular and strong, since that's a masculine trait, so maybe that is why? In strict Muslim-majority countries, the whole gym might be separated in two, or have rooms available for certain genders for periods of time, for example.
im so confused by the amount of people not reading or outright ignoring that comment. op might be older and from a country thats behind in gender rights to boot but it clearly states that the equipment was segregated
No. Whenever I am at the gym there are typically just as many women on the flat/incline bench as there are men, and if there are less it's not because men are telling women not to. Like I sorta get the locker room bit *sorta*? But everything else is a strawman and a half, and kids don't belong at a weight lifting facility anyway so the comic is kinda all sorts of weird
It's precised it was at the time, aka years ago
ah sorry, my bad.
Yeah this seems weird, you would get a lot of weird looks if you told someone any exercise is gendered in any gym i went to.
>are there really gims that separate tools between genders Former gym rat here, no there's no actual rule in most gyms but there's a cultural social norm that men use the free weights and women use the machines. It's mostly sexism, there's no rule or science fact that says women shouldn't use free weights or men use machines.
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Absolutely, machines are a great starter for everyone and free weights do give more flexibility the more advanced you get. Damn I miss the gym
I thought that was just a guy saying shit and not a person working there.
I've never seen it at the gyms I've been to.
No. No gym does this.
The point is sexism.
Didn't know gyms had one gender equipment
I do know gyms that won’t let kids use free weights though.
I see young kids at the gym all the time with piss poor form. Yeah they need to learn but the problem is they aren’t there with people who know what the hell they’re doing.
In europe most gyms are 18+ with caveats. Main point being that their body isn’t developed fully and working out the wrong way could do pretty bad damage, especially if they dont know what they are doing
And let’s be real. A kid misbehaving or unsupervised in a gym is pretty disruptive and potentially dangerous. In my gym just yesterday I saw kids probably age 10-13 doing some bodyweight exercises unsupervised in an area designated for it on my Gym’s second floor. There was a rack with some plates in this area. One kid took a 45lb plate and put it on his back and was doing squats. But to take it down he had to walk over to a railing over a walkway. And he was supporting the weight on the railing. And then turned around holding the plate against the railing so that he could hold in front of his body and put it down. It did not seem like it would have taken much for that 45lb plate to get accidentally pushed over the railing.
Oddly my gym doesn't let kids use the weight machines, but they can use whatever free weights they want. Starting to think it's all arbitrary
Nope it's about safety. In general kids aren't strong enough or mature enough to handle the weight. They could try running with them, throwing them, using them incorrectly in a way that harms themselves. Not saying adults are free of these mistakes but in general they are a lot more calm when working out in the gym. While kids often get the zoomies.
In some countries, women and men are separated. But in like different rooms.
What fuckin gym has *gendered equipment?*
Its not the gym policing the equipment, but the patrons. I was mocked as a young man while doing a circuit for using the machine where you start out with your legs spread and squeeze your thighs togethor because "only women are suppose to work those muscles", even though they are damn handy when your working high up on a ladder. Same kind of people would mock a young woman for doing bench presses.
None. I dont really get the comic in general
Do people really gender separate gym equipment? I’ve legit never seen this before
This feels like it was either from a while ago or from outside North America/Europe. This would face a discrimination lawsuit in the EU/US/Can at least.
Maybe if it were an employee. But some rando saying “that machine is for boys” is just some rando being a dick
You missed the tiny note saying that it was gym policy
Some religious countries do. But enlightened ones don't.
So...are a lot of y'all just skipping the little author's note that some equipment was restricted to men-only *at the time*? Literally right there on the comic panel.
It’s really tiny, and I’m on mobile.
Yeah they’re not reading lol also generalizing that every gym is like the one they go to. Typical Reddit behavior
I don’t think redditors go to the gym
"Yeah guys it totally happened at the time, at another school in Canada" Unless this is set in an extremely repressed culture or in the 1950s, this is some nonsense. There's so many instances of actual sexism and creepiness that happens regularly at gyms, I don't understand why this unrealistic scenario was used
are you like personally offended a gym was called out as not being very gender inclusive? you're all over this thread. fucking wild dude.
Trans guy here and related hard, especially with the part about the bench being a "man thing". To me this reads as an early experience of gender dysphoria but of course that's my lense.
I agree 100% with you. The knives labeling the main character "woman" in the shower are obviously symbolizing the dysphoria of being misgendered.
Trans woman and I really can’t see this as anything but gender dysphoria when you are a kid/teen. So relatable too (the other way around for me obviously lmao).
I'm transfem and related hard, I just felt that pain of incorrect gender, forcibly being told who I am, etc. I've never been in this exact situation but I understand it anyways.
anyone can help me with the meaning of the story, i’m so confused
Its most likely about gender dyphoria. OP titled this neither, meaning they are non binary and feels uncomfortable when going to rooms with only women or using equipment only for men.
Who the fuck is gender gatekeeping in gyms? Never seen that in the gym where i go and would shut that down real quick if i would see it. We are all here to become the best version of ourself.
I've been going to gyms almost every week for the last 31 years, in the states, all over Asia and all over Europe, even in one African country. I've never ever seen gender restrictive equipment. It's pretty straightforward at any gym you go to that kids under 15 aren't allowed without direct adult supervision, but that's generally gym-wide. Also, in that time I can probably count the times I've showered at the gym instead of home on one hand. I like your art style OP but I've never encountered the gendered equipment issue, and I've never experienced anyone who just really pushed for showering in the gym, but that's just me. Good luck on your personal journey and I hope you find peace and a non-binary gym or at least a family bathroom.
OP is lying or, as a child, misunderstood the experience. I've got a feeling that age was an issue, not gender. This comic reeks of a teenager grappling with identity issues and trying to enhance the drama of their life
I mean, technically speaking, no machines are gender restricted, and there are tons of women who can out bench press me by miles. The only thing is age restriction, the soonest you should start going to the gym is 14, otherwise the load can damage your growth, and even then some machines or stations should be avoided
There's a note on that page that in this particular instance, it was gender restricted. Not sure what year or country, but I can certainly believe that some places would have that.
There is no scientific evidence that lifting weights can stunt your growth as a child so you should probably stop spouting false info about that.
Men only equipment? You can use whatever equipment you like I don’t get it.
This was a really good read. Very interesting to see the idea of gender dysphoria or being non-binary through the eyes of a child.
Can’t imagine what that’s like OP I hope things get easier. I also applaud you for telling your story. I think there should be more stories about women transitioning as well as men.
In that first panel I didn't realize the parents as abyss thing was happening, so I thought she was holding a shotgun
Public showers, what a shitty concept. No privacy, no option to shower by yourself. Thanks for making showers unavailable for introverted and anxious people. The comic hits right home. Very relatable. Good job, well done.
I get that not everyone is trans, and not everyone suffers from body dysphoria, but I don't see how people are having such a hard time understanding the comic? Or why people are just ignoring the note on the gendered equipment? Everything was made pretty obvious– maybe I'm overthinking
Loved this Rosicae. You made some real fun and wonderful choices despite the comics topic and tone. Loved the color palette too. Fantastic and gonna follow you for more.
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That's why I hate gym... Besides the woman/man changing room (I'm non binary) there's the fact that I don't know how to make a workout schedule and the one that they give you is always the gendered one. I get that women start from lower weights but why different workouts? I want to be strong, I don't want a big butt or something like that
Just do a strength training program since they are pretty inclusive.
Hey you have tried chatgpt? Im a beginner to working out wirh machines n I ask the AI to give a simple routine. You can even ask it to do one based one arms, legs then chest or whatever routine.
"I haven't seen any gender gatekeeping so it must not be real" y'all really do be using your anecdotal evidence to refute someone's lived gender oppression. Even if it only happened at one gym ever to this person, it's a symptom of a society that forces people into these arbitrary categories of self expression. That's the point of the comic. please stop going on about how great you seem to think gym culture is.
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I've never seen a gym label a bench press for a specific sex. Sounds like a shitty gym.
I never had gender issues but I always felt super uncomfortable when I had to go to public changing rooms for swimming events and such Idk if the comic is about gender stuff or simply being uncomfy in changing rooms but I get ya regardless, feeling uncomfy when everyone else acts like you shouldn’t be makes the situation even worse and the wish to avoid it makes the time take longer when you eventually have to go back
"everyone is ok with it, so should you" Everywhere I look I see the results of this phrase.
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To the Non Binary gremlins out there. Yall are valid. Anyone who says or pretends otherwise, can go fuck themselves. You matter. Just like everyone else.
I really like how the panel backgrounds get progressively darker and greyer. Good stylistic choice.
Very moving
This is … oddly relatable. Love your art style!
Luckily this is becoming the exception rather than the rule (at least where i live)
I know this is about gender dysphoria but I felt the *exact* same way when I was a kid. Why do I have to shower in a room full of strangers? Why do I have to be judged for doing something I'm not "supposed to", by the petty standards of some gal/guy? Fuck that man.
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This is honestly why i went to a gym that has private bathrooms
Can't wait to go use the men-only-bench-press
What gym has male only equipment?