i agree with a lot of the sentiment, but disagree re: dorian and fearne, who are probably my favourite characters in the party.
the stakes do feel weird. i think i was fully in up to and including e34ish. but they did kinda lose me on going to c1 characters to bring laudna back. idk, just felt like an opportunity for a c2-esque pivot in the party comp, and they didn't take it. these characters are largely overwhelmed and indecisive, with hardly any int to understand or investigate what's going on. and as cool as sam's new character is, it's *another charisma caster*. just feels like a mismatch with the intense historical plotting they're up against.
that said, i still think c3 gets more negativity than it deserves. but i do get frustrated at times.
It wasn't meant to be a comment on how good or bad the characters are. Just that it would be nice if each campaign was separate so we could experience new characters. Like if exu gets more seasons, then ofc bring back Dorian and Fern, but returning characters made the season feel less fresh to me.
First off: in Reddit’s formatting language, you need to hit return twice to actually start a new paragraph. You might want to edit your post for readability.
I agree, especially with points number 2 and 5. Travis is intentionally engaging less with this campaign. I actually think Bertrand was better in this regard despite being a temporary character because he actually had hopes and goals, much like Grog he was played for laughs but there was still depth to him. Chetney is just sort of there… it feels like Travis is at the table out of obligation, and would probably take an extended break if he had the opportunity, just like Sam did.
And regarding point number 5, one of the go-to responses to criticism of the show has been “it’s their game, we just get to watch,” which has always been BS in my opinion, but now completely falls flat in light of recent programming choices. This is so clearly not just a group of friends letting us into their home game, it’s a multimedia entertainment franchise that is obviously aware of its audience.
Yeah, a lot of this list is up to personal preference or interpretation, but the point about Travis not caring/being invested is pure projection on OP's part, lol.
Rule of thumb: if your argument involves making inferences about the "secret true inner feelings" of one or more cast members, it's probably a really bad argument.
It's so weird you see it like that because imo Travis is the most engaged in this campaign! I think because Chetney's backstory is mostly a joke and resolved early, you might see Travis as also treating the campaign lightly, but I think he's more invested in the story than ever. A lot of times, he's the one keeping track of information, reminding the party of goals and tasks they need to do, and you can see on his face how excited he gets when new lore is introduced.
Compare this with Campaign 2 when >!he didn't remember his own character's last name, and there were *multiple* recountings of the story of Clay, *Stone*, and Dust before he made the connection, even if it was just a coincidence!< . Or Campaign 1 when there were times in and out of character that >!people would say 'we need to get in a fight because Grog/Travis is getting antsy'!< .
It's just interesting to see a different perspective on how a character's investment affects how people enjoy this show.
EDIT: I do want to say I'm not criticizing how Travis played in C1 or C2: both of those choices played into the character really well (low WIS or INT which informed his roleplaying). It's just that in C3 he* chose* to play the highest INT character which requires paying more attention.
I completely agree here. Chetney has been one of my favorite characters to watch, not only because I love that he has such a distinct personality relative to most of the CR characters we’ve had, but also in that Travis seems so invested in the story as him. He doesn’t have the most extensive backstory, but I feel that’s allowed Travis the freedom to really just do what he wants with this elderly, crotchety, and surprisingly wise chaos werewolf toy maker gnome.
I definitely see your point! And it's not as if Travis has checked out entirely. Chetney has his moments! For me I found his relationship with Ford to be more interesting as the character was built on a more grounded foundation. His flaws and mystery were more engaging to me.
Tbh, what bothers me more are the comments made out of the show. Just like the way he just throws in a bunch of temporary characters seeming like he just is doing it because he has to play for another season. I feel like it's becoming more apparent some of the cast doesn't want to continue much longer. If they were adding some of the guests to the main campaign more. Maybe swap them for current players more permentantly. Robbie replacing Travis for a while would probably give a nice break for Travis, and let the group flow a bit easier with a smaller more focused amount of people
I think that Chetney wasn't his actual character. I think Chet was supposed to be similar to Bertrand where he'd spend a few episodes with the party and then die and then Travis would come back with his real character. But Chet keeps living, and now it's kinda too late to do that with chet.
IMO, Matt is pulling the strings of all campaigns and related content to prepare to sendoff CR/Exandria as we know it at the end of C3.
It's a monumental effort. If he is railing the plot more than before it's likely to make the whole thing manageable and not explode under the stress.
I'm not super thrilled with this campaign overall either, but some of the episodes have been genuinely very good.
It definitely does feel more scripted than the others, though, I agree with you there. Some decisions just lined up way too perfectly to not be planned well in advance, like Liam reaching out to Dorian the episode before we cut to their side story with aabria... Don't tell me they all didn't know that was going to happen. Sam coming back during the live show, too.
Just feels cheap.
Yeah, this is what I meant. I could have been more specific. Thanks. Also yes there have definitely been some good episodes, critical role didn't just lose all of the talented voice actors and great dm
pretty much every point you mentioned, are reasons other ppl like it more.
the first one seems like an odd complaint to me. basically, we got to see the session 0 for some of the characters, that people were wanting to see back in C2 as well. but its not like you need to watch ECU to be able to follow the main campaign. we didnt get to see any of the session 0's from C2, but it wasnt odd that they had pre-established connections that the viewers didnt see. so why is it an issue in C3?
for the 2nd, Travis has always been big on playing around. Grog was nothing but chaotic fun. Fjord drove the story for a bit, but this just seems like a return to form for him than a change of pace.
3rd, they are... thats why Matt specifically didnt want any mainline connections to them in C2, because they are literally godly heros. but its not like BH is just tagging along behind VM so they can do everything. theres only been 1 instance where they really relied on them, and that was to res Laudna. which VM only facilitated the action, BH still had to take agency with making it happen.
4th also seems like a really odd complaint... VM spent tons of time goofing off and fucking around during both catastrophic events they were facing. the MN never stopped goofing around. this isnt a group of ppl playing a game to be depressed and stressed about a fictional world ending, they are having fun.
5th, they are literally in the same world and informing each other. thats 100% the point of the side series being in exandria, because they are impacted by the main campaign and can impact the main campaign.
6 just feels like youre stretching for something to be mad about. the quality of production has improved over the years, sure. but they still act the same way they have always played? youre not even giving any examples of why you say it feels "company made". that just feels like something youre projecting onto them for whatever reason.
PS. format your posts.
Edit: this is not to say you have to like it. like what you want, and dont like what you dont. but dont expect ppl to act like its objectively bad, because its not. if its not something you enjoy, then the best thing you can do is just not engage with it. and let the ppl who do enjoy it continue to enjoy it.
I totally see your points. For me it feels like there feels like a greater ratio of gag to more traditional characters in this season.
Ie season 1 had the twins, percy, Pike, and keyleth for serious
For silly they only had scanlan and Grog
In season 2 there was fjord, yasha, beau, Caleb, and arguably moly
Meanwhile Jester and Nott were more focused on gags, although not in the same amount as the silliness in the first campaign
Season 3 has Orym, Dorian, and Imogen for serious
For silly, there is FGC until recently, Laudna, Fern, and Chetney
The balance has switched. While I think a lot may like this, I feel like the silliness has overtaken the stakes in a way.
To be clear, I'm not trying to say your wrong, I'm just saying this is my perspective. It wasn't to invalidate someone else. Just to see if I was alone in this. As you can see I'm not on reddit much
i feel like youre railroading the characters into only 1 category, but they dont play them that one dimensionally. Vax litterally had prank wars with Grog, Pike talked about how she would regularly visit whore houses when they left her alone. Scanlan had a full hit of one of the most serious RP bits in C1 when he left, and found out he had a kid.
i could keep going with the C2 ppl. all of the characters have both sides, which is something that makes them feel more fleshed out. FCG had a crisis of self recognition, actually being able to see them selves as someone whose alive. Laudna is actively dealing with years of trauma and PTSD. Ferns reconciling with the fact that she had a family she never knew, and was intentionally bred to fulfil a madman's machinations.
they are definitely more inclined to have fun and mess around in C3, im not denying that. just saying, the serious aspects are still very much there.
With 120 episode of anything characters are bound to have both. I just miss a lack of the straight man types. Feels a bit like the office without Jim and Pam.
>Ever since talks machina ended with Brian, it feels like everything is so company made.
Hey... I'm not saying you meant it this way, and maybe you haven't even heard the news about Brian before now, but "I liked the vibe so much better before they cut all ties with the guy who horribly abused his partner" is probably not a take you want to include in your list of grievances here.
Oh! I actually didn't know that he did this! Thanks for informing me, and it wasn't to specifically say talks machina. Just around the time it ended. But my bad! Genuinely didn't know
I'ma just say it: I fucking hated C2, and the fact that this season is more plotted out is a goddamn godsend because whatever they did in C2 sucked ass. Did I like the characters? Yes, loved them, but I absolutely loathed the fact they seemed to lack any direction in C2 and just did fuck all.
It felt like all the did was hit each characters major arc with sprinkled plot involving a beacon in the background?!?
I stopped like at some point towards in the end when they where in the one city, and then came back for the final episode and like... I never been more underwhelmed in my life and was left confused on how they got there.
And I'm ADHD as all hell so I can't even remotely tell you what was going on in that entire season other then Fjord shit.
Wooooo, I feel better.
Loving C3 and the characters and I don't see the lack of investment or drive at all.
Which is to say: Hey, it's okay if you don't enjoy the campaign going on right now. Not everyone is going to enjoy every campaign but can we all cut out the bitching about it and act like just because some people don't like it that it's automatically terrible?
C2 and C3 have more or less diametrically opposed design principles. C2 was set up as a sandbox where the players were 100% in charge of the direction, and their motivations determined what would happen next (well, until the post-hiatus part anyways). C3 is a railroad, where the players follow a singular plotline and seem to have an off-camera agreement with the DM to not stray too far from the path.
The issue for me comes up in that question of motivation. I agree that C2 could be meandering at times, but ultimately the character's motivations were at the forefront driving the gameplay, and that's why those characters have become so beloved: we knew who they were and what they wanted, and every second of the campaign we saw them striving to understand themselves and achieve their goals. In C3 we never have that sense of not knowing where to go next, but the characters don't seem to have any motivation. All the drive to move forward comes from "above table," and a significant amount of game time is devoted to the characters trying to figure out *why* they're motivated, and also just treading water until they're pushed on to the next thing by the DM.
Oh. This again.
A series with hundreds of thousands of viewers is going to have people who don’t like it or don’t vibe with it. That’s fine.
Go watch something you enjoy.
To be clear, I was seeing if there was other people who agreed, I wasn't forcing myself to watch. I'm actually not even trying to poop on people's enjoyment. If you like it, better for you! I just wanted to see if I was missing something tbh
I don’t like the current product from the intellectual property I’ve enjoyed for the past few years and/or since it first came out
They have made too many and/or not enough changes so I don’t like this version.
I need to go online and complain, but it turns out I’m not alone. I’ve found many who make the same claims as me.
Hopefully if enough of us complain lots enough and repeatedly it will get to the creators and they will realize we’re the “real” fans so they can make it how we want and surely no one will ever complain again…
Edit: typos
Haha, that wasn't the intention. I hope they do their own thing and follow their vision. I just was expressing some complaints and wanted to see if other people thought the same or it was just me
i agree with a lot of the sentiment, but disagree re: dorian and fearne, who are probably my favourite characters in the party. the stakes do feel weird. i think i was fully in up to and including e34ish. but they did kinda lose me on going to c1 characters to bring laudna back. idk, just felt like an opportunity for a c2-esque pivot in the party comp, and they didn't take it. these characters are largely overwhelmed and indecisive, with hardly any int to understand or investigate what's going on. and as cool as sam's new character is, it's *another charisma caster*. just feels like a mismatch with the intense historical plotting they're up against. that said, i still think c3 gets more negativity than it deserves. but i do get frustrated at times.
It wasn't meant to be a comment on how good or bad the characters are. Just that it would be nice if each campaign was separate so we could experience new characters. Like if exu gets more seasons, then ofc bring back Dorian and Fern, but returning characters made the season feel less fresh to me.
I gotta love that you don't include orym in the group of characters you dislike.
Tbh I really like how serious Liam takes his characters
Fair enough
In a perfect world, Liam would have done a new character too though
I too feel the lack of investment of players in this, but the last episodes were good
First off: in Reddit’s formatting language, you need to hit return twice to actually start a new paragraph. You might want to edit your post for readability. I agree, especially with points number 2 and 5. Travis is intentionally engaging less with this campaign. I actually think Bertrand was better in this regard despite being a temporary character because he actually had hopes and goals, much like Grog he was played for laughs but there was still depth to him. Chetney is just sort of there… it feels like Travis is at the table out of obligation, and would probably take an extended break if he had the opportunity, just like Sam did. And regarding point number 5, one of the go-to responses to criticism of the show has been “it’s their game, we just get to watch,” which has always been BS in my opinion, but now completely falls flat in light of recent programming choices. This is so clearly not just a group of friends letting us into their home game, it’s a multimedia entertainment franchise that is obviously aware of its audience.
Thanks for the advice! I'm new to reddit
If anyone cares in any situation, its Travis.
Yeah, a lot of this list is up to personal preference or interpretation, but the point about Travis not caring/being invested is pure projection on OP's part, lol. Rule of thumb: if your argument involves making inferences about the "secret true inner feelings" of one or more cast members, it's probably a really bad argument.
It's so weird you see it like that because imo Travis is the most engaged in this campaign! I think because Chetney's backstory is mostly a joke and resolved early, you might see Travis as also treating the campaign lightly, but I think he's more invested in the story than ever. A lot of times, he's the one keeping track of information, reminding the party of goals and tasks they need to do, and you can see on his face how excited he gets when new lore is introduced. Compare this with Campaign 2 when >!he didn't remember his own character's last name, and there were *multiple* recountings of the story of Clay, *Stone*, and Dust before he made the connection, even if it was just a coincidence!< . Or Campaign 1 when there were times in and out of character that >!people would say 'we need to get in a fight because Grog/Travis is getting antsy'!< . It's just interesting to see a different perspective on how a character's investment affects how people enjoy this show. EDIT: I do want to say I'm not criticizing how Travis played in C1 or C2: both of those choices played into the character really well (low WIS or INT which informed his roleplaying). It's just that in C3 he* chose* to play the highest INT character which requires paying more attention.
I completely agree here. Chetney has been one of my favorite characters to watch, not only because I love that he has such a distinct personality relative to most of the CR characters we’ve had, but also in that Travis seems so invested in the story as him. He doesn’t have the most extensive backstory, but I feel that’s allowed Travis the freedom to really just do what he wants with this elderly, crotchety, and surprisingly wise chaos werewolf toy maker gnome.
I definitely see your point! And it's not as if Travis has checked out entirely. Chetney has his moments! For me I found his relationship with Ford to be more interesting as the character was built on a more grounded foundation. His flaws and mystery were more engaging to me. Tbh, what bothers me more are the comments made out of the show. Just like the way he just throws in a bunch of temporary characters seeming like he just is doing it because he has to play for another season. I feel like it's becoming more apparent some of the cast doesn't want to continue much longer. If they were adding some of the guests to the main campaign more. Maybe swap them for current players more permentantly. Robbie replacing Travis for a while would probably give a nice break for Travis, and let the group flow a bit easier with a smaller more focused amount of people
I think that Chetney wasn't his actual character. I think Chet was supposed to be similar to Bertrand where he'd spend a few episodes with the party and then die and then Travis would come back with his real character. But Chet keeps living, and now it's kinda too late to do that with chet.
Haha, yeah. I think so too. But idk, the whole thing personally rubbed me the wrong way
IMO, Matt is pulling the strings of all campaigns and related content to prepare to sendoff CR/Exandria as we know it at the end of C3. It's a monumental effort. If he is railing the plot more than before it's likely to make the whole thing manageable and not explode under the stress.
I'm not super thrilled with this campaign overall either, but some of the episodes have been genuinely very good. It definitely does feel more scripted than the others, though, I agree with you there. Some decisions just lined up way too perfectly to not be planned well in advance, like Liam reaching out to Dorian the episode before we cut to their side story with aabria... Don't tell me they all didn't know that was going to happen. Sam coming back during the live show, too. Just feels cheap.
Yeah, this is what I meant. I could have been more specific. Thanks. Also yes there have definitely been some good episodes, critical role didn't just lose all of the talented voice actors and great dm
You know, sometimes we just need to let things go. Dont suffer for not liking a series/show/movie/story anymore and look for new things you like…
No, for sure. I'm not living and dying by crit role. Just was seeing if anyone else saw the issues I'd been seeing
Ok.
pretty much every point you mentioned, are reasons other ppl like it more. the first one seems like an odd complaint to me. basically, we got to see the session 0 for some of the characters, that people were wanting to see back in C2 as well. but its not like you need to watch ECU to be able to follow the main campaign. we didnt get to see any of the session 0's from C2, but it wasnt odd that they had pre-established connections that the viewers didnt see. so why is it an issue in C3? for the 2nd, Travis has always been big on playing around. Grog was nothing but chaotic fun. Fjord drove the story for a bit, but this just seems like a return to form for him than a change of pace. 3rd, they are... thats why Matt specifically didnt want any mainline connections to them in C2, because they are literally godly heros. but its not like BH is just tagging along behind VM so they can do everything. theres only been 1 instance where they really relied on them, and that was to res Laudna. which VM only facilitated the action, BH still had to take agency with making it happen. 4th also seems like a really odd complaint... VM spent tons of time goofing off and fucking around during both catastrophic events they were facing. the MN never stopped goofing around. this isnt a group of ppl playing a game to be depressed and stressed about a fictional world ending, they are having fun. 5th, they are literally in the same world and informing each other. thats 100% the point of the side series being in exandria, because they are impacted by the main campaign and can impact the main campaign. 6 just feels like youre stretching for something to be mad about. the quality of production has improved over the years, sure. but they still act the same way they have always played? youre not even giving any examples of why you say it feels "company made". that just feels like something youre projecting onto them for whatever reason. PS. format your posts. Edit: this is not to say you have to like it. like what you want, and dont like what you dont. but dont expect ppl to act like its objectively bad, because its not. if its not something you enjoy, then the best thing you can do is just not engage with it. and let the ppl who do enjoy it continue to enjoy it.
I totally see your points. For me it feels like there feels like a greater ratio of gag to more traditional characters in this season. Ie season 1 had the twins, percy, Pike, and keyleth for serious For silly they only had scanlan and Grog In season 2 there was fjord, yasha, beau, Caleb, and arguably moly Meanwhile Jester and Nott were more focused on gags, although not in the same amount as the silliness in the first campaign Season 3 has Orym, Dorian, and Imogen for serious For silly, there is FGC until recently, Laudna, Fern, and Chetney The balance has switched. While I think a lot may like this, I feel like the silliness has overtaken the stakes in a way. To be clear, I'm not trying to say your wrong, I'm just saying this is my perspective. It wasn't to invalidate someone else. Just to see if I was alone in this. As you can see I'm not on reddit much
i feel like youre railroading the characters into only 1 category, but they dont play them that one dimensionally. Vax litterally had prank wars with Grog, Pike talked about how she would regularly visit whore houses when they left her alone. Scanlan had a full hit of one of the most serious RP bits in C1 when he left, and found out he had a kid. i could keep going with the C2 ppl. all of the characters have both sides, which is something that makes them feel more fleshed out. FCG had a crisis of self recognition, actually being able to see them selves as someone whose alive. Laudna is actively dealing with years of trauma and PTSD. Ferns reconciling with the fact that she had a family she never knew, and was intentionally bred to fulfil a madman's machinations. they are definitely more inclined to have fun and mess around in C3, im not denying that. just saying, the serious aspects are still very much there.
With 120 episode of anything characters are bound to have both. I just miss a lack of the straight man types. Feels a bit like the office without Jim and Pam.
Again, I'm not saying all the characters are, are serious or funny. Just that most align most with one of those 2
Gotta love that we are in the classic reddit hates everything mode cause good God there a post like this daily.
Haha, I'm not on reddit much, so I didn't know!
>Ever since talks machina ended with Brian, it feels like everything is so company made. Hey... I'm not saying you meant it this way, and maybe you haven't even heard the news about Brian before now, but "I liked the vibe so much better before they cut all ties with the guy who horribly abused his partner" is probably not a take you want to include in your list of grievances here.
Oh! I actually didn't know that he did this! Thanks for informing me, and it wasn't to specifically say talks machina. Just around the time it ended. But my bad! Genuinely didn't know
Yeah, I figured you were using it as more of a timeline point-of-reference, but it felt pertinent to let you know about it anyway, lol.
Yeah really appreciate it. Omg some of this shit is bad! Looked into it wtf
I'ma just say it: I fucking hated C2, and the fact that this season is more plotted out is a goddamn godsend because whatever they did in C2 sucked ass. Did I like the characters? Yes, loved them, but I absolutely loathed the fact they seemed to lack any direction in C2 and just did fuck all. It felt like all the did was hit each characters major arc with sprinkled plot involving a beacon in the background?!? I stopped like at some point towards in the end when they where in the one city, and then came back for the final episode and like... I never been more underwhelmed in my life and was left confused on how they got there. And I'm ADHD as all hell so I can't even remotely tell you what was going on in that entire season other then Fjord shit. Wooooo, I feel better. Loving C3 and the characters and I don't see the lack of investment or drive at all. Which is to say: Hey, it's okay if you don't enjoy the campaign going on right now. Not everyone is going to enjoy every campaign but can we all cut out the bitching about it and act like just because some people don't like it that it's automatically terrible?
> ....C2 sucked ass. I love me a good hot take! I respect it. > they seemed to lack any direction in C2. Now, that's just not true.
C2 and C3 have more or less diametrically opposed design principles. C2 was set up as a sandbox where the players were 100% in charge of the direction, and their motivations determined what would happen next (well, until the post-hiatus part anyways). C3 is a railroad, where the players follow a singular plotline and seem to have an off-camera agreement with the DM to not stray too far from the path. The issue for me comes up in that question of motivation. I agree that C2 could be meandering at times, but ultimately the character's motivations were at the forefront driving the gameplay, and that's why those characters have become so beloved: we knew who they were and what they wanted, and every second of the campaign we saw them striving to understand themselves and achieve their goals. In C3 we never have that sense of not knowing where to go next, but the characters don't seem to have any motivation. All the drive to move forward comes from "above table," and a significant amount of game time is devoted to the characters trying to figure out *why* they're motivated, and also just treading water until they're pushed on to the next thing by the DM.
Yeah, I think I couldn't find the words, but I vibe with this
I agree. I love C3 but I couldnt get through C2 and just got bored.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it was objective, and i definitely had my problems with both
Maybe C4 will be more to your liking.
You're definitely entirely and absolutely overthinking it... especially the entirety of the last paragraph.
Oh. This again. A series with hundreds of thousands of viewers is going to have people who don’t like it or don’t vibe with it. That’s fine. Go watch something you enjoy.
To be clear, I was seeing if there was other people who agreed, I wasn't forcing myself to watch. I'm actually not even trying to poop on people's enjoyment. If you like it, better for you! I just wanted to see if I was missing something tbh
I don’t like the current product from the intellectual property I’ve enjoyed for the past few years and/or since it first came out They have made too many and/or not enough changes so I don’t like this version. I need to go online and complain, but it turns out I’m not alone. I’ve found many who make the same claims as me. Hopefully if enough of us complain lots enough and repeatedly it will get to the creators and they will realize we’re the “real” fans so they can make it how we want and surely no one will ever complain again… Edit: typos
Haha, that wasn't the intention. I hope they do their own thing and follow their vision. I just was expressing some complaints and wanted to see if other people thought the same or it was just me
[удалено]
I'm not sure I was? I don't mind if people disagree