Mat seems to be from another planet when it comes to his dedication to the grind. Definitely helped him but it’s not sustainable for… well, anybody else. Mat also seems to have been super focused on just doing it for a certain number of years, just to get enough of a financial cushion to be able to do other things (as we’ve seen). He wasn’t doing it simply because he liked to work out a lot and wanted to be a CF athlete for as long as possible. Make as much money as possible and then gtfo.
And thank you for the tl;dw! Saw the video pop up on YouTube but I couldn’t convince myself to watch the entire thing.
Yeah, Mat was always clear on the fact that he was doing it for money, even while he was a student. Then, after that, he was miserable at his desk job and saw that he could make a lot of money on this. I actually relate to him in the obsessive grind; I'm the same when it comes to certain sports. I'm not competitive, but there's a particular personality that can be driven by a certain kind of .... "more is more is more" that, if channeled well, can do great things. But you can't impose that attitude on people and there are more ways to be successful.
And no problem! I'm happy to do more of these in future because I sometimes have them on as I work and can take a few notes.
It’s weird how mat was “doing it for the money” and talks about using money as motivation.
But then in 2015 he tells us he didn’t train that hard? First chance in his life to make real money and the guy goes half assed?
The guy who said he would sit down and read his engineering books over and over? That guy? He’s conscientious for an A in class but takes it easy when there’s real money at stake?
The guy who put stacks of cash on the rower? That guy? That guy went half ass when there was real money at stake? Nah, that’s nonsense.
Mat worked hard in 2015, because he works hard at everything he does…but his natural best was only good for 2nd.
What would a hyper-competitive two time silver medalist who is motivated by money do? Go looking for an advantage. Go find the needle man. No wonder he can’t coach.
Why do you think training like Mat wound up being regressive for Jayson? If they’re Games athletes, won’t they pretty much already have an exceptional capacity?
It sucks and is frustrating to work extremely hard to only go backwards.
I think, for as much as Jayson trained leading up to him moving to Vermont, he still didn't train at the alien volume that Mat did. To me, this is clear overtraining, and despite him putting more time and volume, he started getting diminishing returns. He even said in the video that he felt like he could only give 80% max to a workout, even after a rest day. Coming off a period of overtraining, myself, this is textbook.
Lol maybe none of them truly realize just how much he did in training (and outside of training) to become the champion he was. The part about balance strikes true--Fraser had zero balance and was ok with it, most other people need balance.
Agree completely, look at how people left PRVN with injuries. Maybe Mat and Tia aren't giving away all their secrets on how to handle all their volume and recover
If the bar for whether or not something “worked” is winning the games, then only about 4 men have ever trained in a matter that “worked” over the last decade.
2 things, i know I'll get down votes but who cares?
(1) It should be pretty obvious that HWPO is utterly friggin' clueless about coaching. Mat was a beast on the competition floor but he's bad enough at coaching that he should do it with a helmet on. At this point any athletes dumb enough to train with them deserve what they get and if you send them money every month then I don't know what to tell you.
(2) Jayson is a quitter. It's a pattern. He needs counseling not coaching.
Jayson fought hard to get on to the team at Clemson, finally got there, and quit. Going any further than 1 catch for 4 yards in a 50-point win over a small college would have required levels of effort that Jayson doesn't have in him. So he quit. Jayson said the Lord called him away or something. Weird how the Lord would send Clemson their greatest QB in history (Trevor Lawrence) and then tell a young receiver to leave, but He works in mysterious ways.
Coincidentally, the Lord called Jayson to a less competitive sport with fewer great athletes. The pattern repeated itself. Jayson worked hard to get there but was unwilling to do what he needed to do in order to make it to the top.
Indeed, the absurd choice of Clemson was *intended* to fail (look at Maruqn Jones to see a what a Clemson receiver looks like, Jayson isn't that). The choice of HWPO, same. In both cases it was all signal, no substance. That's Jayson. If I had to guess I would say he's a talented kid who got pretty far in sports with little work...and when it came time to work, he didn't know how and was on some level afraid to fail.
So his Games career will look like his football career. He'll never be anywhere near the podium, and the excuses will fall like rain because Jayson looks for the exit when things get tough.
Mat Fraser and his entire PED stash can't fix that.
lol. I'm a team Games athlete who played football in the ACC. Unlike Hopper I played all four years. But forget that, I'm nobody. Let's get
Here's his career numbers: One catch for 4 yards in a 56-3 win against Kent State. That's "elite"? if you say so. Why did Hopper do a 500lb lifetime bac squat a week before the Games if his body was broken down?
lmao because he's full of shizz. Just like with football. His body wasn't broken down.
Speaking of that, Remember when Hopper called out Ben Boulware on IG? Hopper was lifting in pads. Hilarious. Talking smack to a Lambert award winner. THAT is an elite athlete.
Boulware didn't even know who Hopper was. But go off dude. Stand up for a practice player who quit on himself.
you just sound like a douche honestly bro more than anything. didn't question your accomplishments but you decided to state them. congrats man, idgaf. i'm just saying give the dude some grace.
I think calling Jayson a “quitter” (or ANY Games athlete) reeks of armchair quarterbacking.
If your body is breaking down on you, you can’t will yourself to train even harder and not be surprised when it breaks down even more. I agree that there is a point where someone “quits” far below their maximum potential, but I highly doubt this is the case for him.
Yes, a lot of posters are are just armchair quarterbacking. They really have no idea what is going on.
Jayson has obvious talent, but from what I can observed, he is not a "smart" competitor, meaning that he does not seem to be able to adapt to something new quickly (he was terrible with the pull-overs last year), or change things when he needs to on the fly. Jayson just need to find out what works for him, and from the sound of it, this is what he is doing now. I think he will do better this year than 2022 when he finished 7.
> not smart
> can’t adapt
Coach’s job though. Why else hire a coach who’s been to 7 Games? Hopper already knows how to squat. lol
Except he was coached by people who have no idea how to coach. HWPO is a grift.
>body breaking down
that's not accurate. His body wasn't breaking down. He hit a 500 back squat 10 days before the Games. He posted it. Lifetime PR. You don't lifetime PR when your body is shot. 500 squat right before the Games:
[https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu-VMAWAdy5/](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu-VMAWAdy5/)
"breaking down"....That's the excuse for the crappy results. *I just....I just went too hard....trying to be like that other guy...I went too hard.*
nonsense. His body was fine. His mind is busted and he was unprepared.
Jayson picked HWPO to show other people how serious he was. Same reason he picked Clemson. "Look how serious I am about football / CrossFit". Same result. Nada. He could have had a nice career at App State, and a nice CF result at a different, lower profile camp. Nothing like joining up with a champion to prove that you aren't one.
Jayson's issues are between the ears, and they're too much for a post. I obviously think HWPO are naive dopey amateurs but even Dabo Swinney - himself a receiver(!!) - couldn't help Hopper.
he's coached by bozos who probably get a revenue share off programs sold.
The HWPO weightlifting coach is congratulating him on it. It's bizarre. These are supposedly "professionals" but it's clown town.
> It should be pretty obvious that HWPO is utterly friggin' clueless about coaching. Mat was a beast on the competition floor but he's bad enough at coaching that he should do it with a helmet on.
Can you provide examples of this? I'm not disagreeing but I haven't followed HWPO as a coaching program. It just looks bad that he's driven both Jayson and Mal into what seems like overtraining and unhappiness. And I do agree with you that Jayson's problem is more psychological than physical.
I would argue and say the program is mentally draining. As someone who’s been following the program, you have to be willing to do boring grinder work. 30 minute EMOMs are the norm, and mentally I’ll admit it’s not always the easiest to follow. That’s the whole mantra, Hard work pays off. If you’re not willing to do the hard work there’s other programs or coaches to follow. And maybe for some people, following the program is just not worth the time and effort, which is okay. But it’s literally advertised as Mat’s programming so people should be aware of what they are signing up for if they’ve heard him talk.
I caveat all that by saying I work from home, so I have the time to do the program around my work schedule.
No, you got it the wrong way round with Mal. Mal was the one who overtrained before she went to Mat, she did a lot more training until Mat told her to change, and got her to do less. That worked because her result improved in the 2022 Games. In the Games documentary Mat was actually concerned about how much she trained. He was trying to stop her from doing too much training.
Something switched in her mind after the quarterfinals last year, maybe she just grew up. and realized that CrossFit isn't everything and she needed something else in life.
How many examples do you need? They took two top-10 athletes and put them out of the money. Mal would have been better off just doing classes at the local affiliate.
I think Cole Grease-bagger was one of theirs too, cut first day. He wasn't a top-10 guy but he had Games experience and did great at WZA. Cut first day.
Mat had much more direct support to his training, same with Tia. People can outtrain them, but no one will be able to match the support system that molded them
One of the most frustrating lessons of life that I learned is that we are all built different. You can train as hard as you can, and there will always be those who train just as much as you who aren't as fit or as strong as you, and there will always be those who maybe train less and still end up stronger or more fit (or more adept at a sport/discipline.)
I saw an Instagram post earlier today saying that most annoying thing that fitness influencers do is confuse correlation with causation (i.e. "do what I do.")
Different people have different bodies, and respond differently to, for example, very high training volume. Also, training volume has to be build up gradually. You can't just jump from medium training volume to very high training volume and expect that to work out.
Their support system is what did it for them, not necessarily the training. There is still no one who has had the resources and focus combination either one has had in their respective eras, except for Tia. Parallels the concept of the rich get richer
Bro it’s their mentality that is different bro. Certainly not that they are freak athletes who are built perfectly for this sport with the talent of being able to handle insane volume.
Even if they are all on drugs, those three clearly handle and adapt to those drugs better than anyone else can.
Because baseball takes not only hard work, effort etc but also an innate skill be it hand eye coordination etc. Same with other sports. Just because you’re a good athlete and can lift weights fast or have a good engine doesn’t mean it will translate into sport specific activity. That’s why you don’t see Olympic sprinters transferring that skill to a much more lucrative career in the NFL. Just because they can run fast in a straight line doesn’t mean that translates over. Look at golf. Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever but merely an average golfer.
You’re talking Michael Jordan and Olympians. I’m talking small college baseball.
The answer is because rich used PEDs.
Fyi Several sprinters have come to the NFL. James Jett. James trapp. Jeff demps. Tyreek hill. Raheem mostert. Devon Achane Happens a lot
Ok, so elite ability and work ethic transcends one sport
But top CrossFit guys aren’t good at anything else. One may deduce that elite CrossFitters possess little “traditional” athletic ability but tremendous work ethic
Therefore the term “athlete” is a misnomer.
In college we called them weight room Olympians, guys who kicked ass in the gym but stink on the field. Also 3 o clock superheroes. Weight room all stars
I guess now we can just say “crossfitters”
Finding out he was living with mold in his apartment had to have been devastating. That sort of thing can cause all kinds of health issues that could've limited his ability to train in many different ways.
Yeah I'm really surprised they didn't spend more time on this. They just sort of mentioned it as if it was an afterthought. If it was me and I found mold in my house I would immediately look into what it's done to me healthwise and if it impacted my training and overall health. They don't mention any of that, they just throw it in as a funny aside.
Ran into Jayson and his wife at the airport in the Starbucks line after Rogue Invitational. They were super nice and friendly. Hope he has a great 2024
The Mat Fraser method worked for Mat Fraser...and literally no one else.
Yep. It was funny to me, though, that he said "I want to do what you do," and then appeared surprised that it was difficult.
Mat seems to be from another planet when it comes to his dedication to the grind. Definitely helped him but it’s not sustainable for… well, anybody else. Mat also seems to have been super focused on just doing it for a certain number of years, just to get enough of a financial cushion to be able to do other things (as we’ve seen). He wasn’t doing it simply because he liked to work out a lot and wanted to be a CF athlete for as long as possible. Make as much money as possible and then gtfo. And thank you for the tl;dw! Saw the video pop up on YouTube but I couldn’t convince myself to watch the entire thing.
Yeah, Mat was always clear on the fact that he was doing it for money, even while he was a student. Then, after that, he was miserable at his desk job and saw that he could make a lot of money on this. I actually relate to him in the obsessive grind; I'm the same when it comes to certain sports. I'm not competitive, but there's a particular personality that can be driven by a certain kind of .... "more is more is more" that, if channeled well, can do great things. But you can't impose that attitude on people and there are more ways to be successful. And no problem! I'm happy to do more of these in future because I sometimes have them on as I work and can take a few notes.
It’s weird how mat was “doing it for the money” and talks about using money as motivation. But then in 2015 he tells us he didn’t train that hard? First chance in his life to make real money and the guy goes half assed? The guy who said he would sit down and read his engineering books over and over? That guy? He’s conscientious for an A in class but takes it easy when there’s real money at stake? The guy who put stacks of cash on the rower? That guy? That guy went half ass when there was real money at stake? Nah, that’s nonsense. Mat worked hard in 2015, because he works hard at everything he does…but his natural best was only good for 2nd. What would a hyper-competitive two time silver medalist who is motivated by money do? Go looking for an advantage. Go find the needle man. No wonder he can’t coach.
Why do you think training like Mat wound up being regressive for Jayson? If they’re Games athletes, won’t they pretty much already have an exceptional capacity? It sucks and is frustrating to work extremely hard to only go backwards.
I think, for as much as Jayson trained leading up to him moving to Vermont, he still didn't train at the alien volume that Mat did. To me, this is clear overtraining, and despite him putting more time and volume, he started getting diminishing returns. He even said in the video that he felt like he could only give 80% max to a workout, even after a rest day. Coming off a period of overtraining, myself, this is textbook.
Lol maybe none of them truly realize just how much he did in training (and outside of training) to become the champion he was. The part about balance strikes true--Fraser had zero balance and was ok with it, most other people need balance.
The question is, is it possible to force yourself to have that dedication to zero balance?
Jayson skipped the part where you do the injections Makes a huuuuge difference
Or wasn't on the same stack Mat was.
Agree completely, look at how people left PRVN with injuries. Maybe Mat and Tia aren't giving away all their secrets on how to handle all their volume and recover
People also respond differently to compounds. Just because one person responds well does not mean another person will.
That's true as well.
If the bar for whether or not something “worked” is winning the games, then only about 4 men have ever trained in a matter that “worked” over the last decade.
Yup, Mal, Jayson…
2 things, i know I'll get down votes but who cares? (1) It should be pretty obvious that HWPO is utterly friggin' clueless about coaching. Mat was a beast on the competition floor but he's bad enough at coaching that he should do it with a helmet on. At this point any athletes dumb enough to train with them deserve what they get and if you send them money every month then I don't know what to tell you. (2) Jayson is a quitter. It's a pattern. He needs counseling not coaching. Jayson fought hard to get on to the team at Clemson, finally got there, and quit. Going any further than 1 catch for 4 yards in a 50-point win over a small college would have required levels of effort that Jayson doesn't have in him. So he quit. Jayson said the Lord called him away or something. Weird how the Lord would send Clemson their greatest QB in history (Trevor Lawrence) and then tell a young receiver to leave, but He works in mysterious ways. Coincidentally, the Lord called Jayson to a less competitive sport with fewer great athletes. The pattern repeated itself. Jayson worked hard to get there but was unwilling to do what he needed to do in order to make it to the top. Indeed, the absurd choice of Clemson was *intended* to fail (look at Maruqn Jones to see a what a Clemson receiver looks like, Jayson isn't that). The choice of HWPO, same. In both cases it was all signal, no substance. That's Jayson. If I had to guess I would say he's a talented kid who got pretty far in sports with little work...and when it came time to work, he didn't know how and was on some level afraid to fail. So his Games career will look like his football career. He'll never be anywhere near the podium, and the excuses will fall like rain because Jayson looks for the exit when things get tough. Mat Fraser and his entire PED stash can't fix that.
You have no idea “who” this guy is. Fucking crazy to analyze his life like this with no context. Bro is an elite athlete. Fuck off
lol. I'm a team Games athlete who played football in the ACC. Unlike Hopper I played all four years. But forget that, I'm nobody. Let's get Here's his career numbers: One catch for 4 yards in a 56-3 win against Kent State. That's "elite"? if you say so. Why did Hopper do a 500lb lifetime bac squat a week before the Games if his body was broken down? lmao because he's full of shizz. Just like with football. His body wasn't broken down. Speaking of that, Remember when Hopper called out Ben Boulware on IG? Hopper was lifting in pads. Hilarious. Talking smack to a Lambert award winner. THAT is an elite athlete. Boulware didn't even know who Hopper was. But go off dude. Stand up for a practice player who quit on himself.
you just sound like a douche honestly bro more than anything. didn't question your accomplishments but you decided to state them. congrats man, idgaf. i'm just saying give the dude some grace.
I'm the only one in the entire thread who identified the way forward for Hopper...because I've been there. If you're friends, show him my long post.
I think calling Jayson a “quitter” (or ANY Games athlete) reeks of armchair quarterbacking. If your body is breaking down on you, you can’t will yourself to train even harder and not be surprised when it breaks down even more. I agree that there is a point where someone “quits” far below their maximum potential, but I highly doubt this is the case for him.
Yes, a lot of posters are are just armchair quarterbacking. They really have no idea what is going on. Jayson has obvious talent, but from what I can observed, he is not a "smart" competitor, meaning that he does not seem to be able to adapt to something new quickly (he was terrible with the pull-overs last year), or change things when he needs to on the fly. Jayson just need to find out what works for him, and from the sound of it, this is what he is doing now. I think he will do better this year than 2022 when he finished 7.
> not smart > can’t adapt Coach’s job though. Why else hire a coach who’s been to 7 Games? Hopper already knows how to squat. lol Except he was coached by people who have no idea how to coach. HWPO is a grift.
Why do you need so many identities to post in this sub? To upvote yourself?
>body breaking down that's not accurate. His body wasn't breaking down. He hit a 500 back squat 10 days before the Games. He posted it. Lifetime PR. You don't lifetime PR when your body is shot. 500 squat right before the Games: [https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu-VMAWAdy5/](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu-VMAWAdy5/) "breaking down"....That's the excuse for the crappy results. *I just....I just went too hard....trying to be like that other guy...I went too hard.* nonsense. His body was fine. His mind is busted and he was unprepared. Jayson picked HWPO to show other people how serious he was. Same reason he picked Clemson. "Look how serious I am about football / CrossFit". Same result. Nada. He could have had a nice career at App State, and a nice CF result at a different, lower profile camp. Nothing like joining up with a champion to prove that you aren't one. Jayson's issues are between the ears, and they're too much for a post. I obviously think HWPO are naive dopey amateurs but even Dabo Swinney - himself a receiver(!!) - couldn't help Hopper.
My question is..:why TF did he go for a BS PR 10 days out from the games?!
he's coached by bozos who probably get a revenue share off programs sold. The HWPO weightlifting coach is congratulating him on it. It's bizarre. These are supposedly "professionals" but it's clown town.
There’s just no reason to PR your lifts 1.5 weeks out from a hella hard week. Dumb.
> It should be pretty obvious that HWPO is utterly friggin' clueless about coaching. Mat was a beast on the competition floor but he's bad enough at coaching that he should do it with a helmet on. Can you provide examples of this? I'm not disagreeing but I haven't followed HWPO as a coaching program. It just looks bad that he's driven both Jayson and Mal into what seems like overtraining and unhappiness. And I do agree with you that Jayson's problem is more psychological than physical.
I would argue and say the program is mentally draining. As someone who’s been following the program, you have to be willing to do boring grinder work. 30 minute EMOMs are the norm, and mentally I’ll admit it’s not always the easiest to follow. That’s the whole mantra, Hard work pays off. If you’re not willing to do the hard work there’s other programs or coaches to follow. And maybe for some people, following the program is just not worth the time and effort, which is okay. But it’s literally advertised as Mat’s programming so people should be aware of what they are signing up for if they’ve heard him talk. I caveat all that by saying I work from home, so I have the time to do the program around my work schedule.
No, you got it the wrong way round with Mal. Mal was the one who overtrained before she went to Mat, she did a lot more training until Mat told her to change, and got her to do less. That worked because her result improved in the 2022 Games. In the Games documentary Mat was actually concerned about how much she trained. He was trying to stop her from doing too much training. Something switched in her mind after the quarterfinals last year, maybe she just grew up. and realized that CrossFit isn't everything and she needed something else in life.
How many examples do you need? They took two top-10 athletes and put them out of the money. Mal would have been better off just doing classes at the local affiliate. I think Cole Grease-bagger was one of theirs too, cut first day. He wasn't a top-10 guy but he had Games experience and did great at WZA. Cut first day.
I opened this post and thought, "who has time to read all those bullet points" but it was exactly the cliff notes i needed. Thanks!
No problem! ngl I thought that as I was writing it too but at that point I'd already invested the time
Mat had much more direct support to his training, same with Tia. People can outtrain them, but no one will be able to match the support system that molded them
[удалено]
One of the most frustrating lessons of life that I learned is that we are all built different. You can train as hard as you can, and there will always be those who train just as much as you who aren't as fit or as strong as you, and there will always be those who maybe train less and still end up stronger or more fit (or more adept at a sport/discipline.) I saw an Instagram post earlier today saying that most annoying thing that fitness influencers do is confuse correlation with causation (i.e. "do what I do.")
Different people have different bodies, and respond differently to, for example, very high training volume. Also, training volume has to be build up gradually. You can't just jump from medium training volume to very high training volume and expect that to work out.
Their support system is what did it for them, not necessarily the training. There is still no one who has had the resources and focus combination either one has had in their respective eras, except for Tia. Parallels the concept of the rich get richer
In all honesty in the world of CF it’s Mat, Rich and Tia. Then everyone else. These 3 seem to have something no one either has or can maintain.
Bro it’s their mentality that is different bro. Certainly not that they are freak athletes who are built perfectly for this sport with the talent of being able to handle insane volume. Even if they are all on drugs, those three clearly handle and adapt to those drugs better than anyone else can.
Everyone downvoted you but you’re right
Why didn’t that mentality and work ethic help them in other sports? Rich couldn’t even make a JuCo baseball team.
The first sentence is sarcasm. They are super talented in the hyper specific demands of CrossFit and less talented in other sports.
My bad Your last sentence in that post is spot on (seriously)
Because baseball takes not only hard work, effort etc but also an innate skill be it hand eye coordination etc. Same with other sports. Just because you’re a good athlete and can lift weights fast or have a good engine doesn’t mean it will translate into sport specific activity. That’s why you don’t see Olympic sprinters transferring that skill to a much more lucrative career in the NFL. Just because they can run fast in a straight line doesn’t mean that translates over. Look at golf. Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever but merely an average golfer.
You’re talking Michael Jordan and Olympians. I’m talking small college baseball. The answer is because rich used PEDs. Fyi Several sprinters have come to the NFL. James Jett. James trapp. Jeff demps. Tyreek hill. Raheem mostert. Devon Achane Happens a lot
I’m using them as an example. And for the record Hill, Demps, Achane and Jett were all Football players who sprinted NOT the other way around
Ok, so elite ability and work ethic transcends one sport But top CrossFit guys aren’t good at anything else. One may deduce that elite CrossFitters possess little “traditional” athletic ability but tremendous work ethic Therefore the term “athlete” is a misnomer. In college we called them weight room Olympians, guys who kicked ass in the gym but stink on the field. Also 3 o clock superheroes. Weight room all stars I guess now we can just say “crossfitters”
No one ruins athletes like Ben Bergeron …. Mat “hold my athletic brew”
*hold my CBD Hot Cocoa*
Hard work pa... Never mind.
Awesome recap. You’re the MVP
Finding out he was living with mold in his apartment had to have been devastating. That sort of thing can cause all kinds of health issues that could've limited his ability to train in many different ways.
Yeah I'm really surprised they didn't spend more time on this. They just sort of mentioned it as if it was an afterthought. If it was me and I found mold in my house I would immediately look into what it's done to me healthwise and if it impacted my training and overall health. They don't mention any of that, they just throw it in as a funny aside.
And isn’t it Mat’s duplex they were in? Or at least May rents the duplex for his athletes to live in. Crazy
No it wasn’t. Mat talked about this before the Games.. Hopper actually moved to an area to an area that Mat told him not too.
Jayson’s wife’s voice was enough to make me change the channel. 🙉
So he *is* a normal person.
Did he at any point say he might not be good enough?
Ran into Jayson and his wife at the airport in the Starbucks line after Rogue Invitational. They were super nice and friendly. Hope he has a great 2024