It's a long grinder of a bunch of random stuff. If that's what you're going for, have at it. Bicep curls and renegade rows for time are not repeatable movement with good points of performance. I definitely wouldn't think of this workout and being something to retest, so why overall...meh have fun. Why post asking for thoughts then argue every response.
When I asked for thoughts I anticipated actual examples of improvement. Feedback such as “it’s trash and you should do something different” is worthless because it doesn’t dissect anything and isn’t usable.
I knew the style of workout would ruffle some feathers, but I definitely underestimated how offended people would be by its existence.
Things might appear random to people, especially when they aren’t familiar with the flow of a gym, the workouts that have been done that week, or if they can’t recognize the way movement patterns are being used to either complement each other or the way rep schemes and partner structure are being used to influence pacing.
You're right, providing a thoughtful critique on a workout without context of gym surroundings and programming history isn't really possible. Hence why you're seeing the "its trash" a lot, because their response reflects the information given on the post.
Agreed. Though, like I said, the extent of the dismay is much greater than I anticipated. I expected more discussion and questions/suggestions along the lines of modifying a movement within a section, or adjusting a rep/round scheme, or changing about the order of the sections.
I didn’t anticipate it turning into a top down, moralistic critique of how every CrossFit workout that’s in a longer time domain “should” be. But suppose that’s what I get for not including photos of the gym, a blue print, and the last 5 weeks programming of this cycle along with the full injury and capabilities catalog of all the members most likely to attend a Saturday morning workout.
All I am seeing from you is "I asked people their thoughts on a workout with absolutely zero context and they hated it". Your week's programming leading up, your gym layout, your programming skill, the ability of your athlete base, etc are all IRRELEVANT if all you do is post a picture of a kitchen-sink workout and say "whattaya think, guys!?" then get offended when everyone hates it because the context, which YOU failed to provide, is missing.
That said, what I see is a long-ass confusing workout where the intended stimulus is a mystery. Typically, a Saturday partner workout, intended stimulus would be to get a great workout, and have fun. I am dubious that either are accomplished here. Also, any time I see a 40 minute cap, I am suspect that the programmer knows that much about delivering a quality program to their clients. But, again - there's zero context here except a snapshot.
Oh, I’m not offended at all! I really don’t take anything personally. Especially not anonymous internet comments. The 40 minute time as a cap was fairly unnecessary because just about everyone finished up just under the 40 minutes
You guys really crack me up.
Criticism isn’t an impressive skill without real actionable feedback.
The best part of the whole workout was how smoothly it ran and how happy everyone was for something different.
Maybe instead of saying it’s shit, you could use words like “I don’t think it’s a good workout for so.. and so.. reason”. I’d liken your comment to an “assholes critique” meaning you’re just being an asshole.
r/Crossfit isnt very impressed.
The people who pay you to write their programming and come to your gym 5 times a week love it. Maybe everyone on r/Crossfit is wrong, or maybe the people in your gym have self selected for being into this kinda stuff.
Personally, looks like a workout for the "effort athletes". Rope climbs are about the only thing on there that requires any skill. Consider adding 10min open time at the end for all the people who loved it to share about how they were all state honorable mention D4 football player, and then "considered the NFL but focused on academics instead"
Thanks for your comment. You about summed it up in that first paragraph.
This workout was **far** from typical programming, and was intentionally included on a Saturday morning where there’s more freedom for *fun*. And ya, every gym is different. I like that people at our gym sign up for classes the day ahead, because it allows us to make adjustments and plan for people in most cases.
This workout style was actually something I borrowed from a couple other gyms from when I lived out west, and actually not even my own favorite type of workout to do.
Too much going on. If anyone brings a friend there will not be time for form correction on anything.
If you really feel like you need 11 different movements in a workout, you need to structure it simpler, I think. Fight gone bad x2 would work with a cash out at the end to do as a class maybe, like an 800m burden run.
That gives new people time to adapt to what they’re doing without context switching constantly. To save equipment space, have partners chase each other and stagger the fight gone bad scheme
We didn’t have any new people coming to classes today. We do everything we can to schedule new people during the week and have a set protocol for that.
The purpose wasn’t that 11 different movements were “needed”, but that we have so many people attend on Saturdays that in order to have enough space to workout I made 4 mini workouts that use different parts of the gym. It’s safest this way because I don’t have people at risk of dropping wall balls on other people or whipping someone with jump ropes.
Right, which is why I said fight gone bad with chasing. You can have groups of up to 6. For 30 people, that’s 5 wall balls, 5 rowers, probably more dumbbells for different abilities, 5 jump rope areas, etc.
It’s probably also a better workout than allowing every group of X to partition reps however they want, which is a large criticism posted in this very sub almost daily about partner workouts.
You know what, just literally do fight gone bad with a proper warm up and cool down. Maybe sub sumo deadlift high pulls because those cause cherry picking.
If that would work in your gym, awesome! And you sound really passionate that this is the *right* answer, so I won’t tell you otherwise.
For our gym space, this wouldn’t work for a couple reasons. One, is taking into consideration the types of workouts we already did this week as well as the stimuli. Another reason is the layout of our gym.
But we did something different and everyone had fun today, got a good workout, and nobody was hurt. To me, that’s an absolute 10/10 day.
Not looking for praise. I was looking for constructive conversation on an individual workout. Not for someone to say “just do Fight Gone Bad”. But thanks for your feedback.
I’m not defensive at all. I just believe that if someone has a good argument, that they should be able to convince me of it rationally. Not expect me to wilt and accept their opinion because they said so.
If someone other than yourself were to describe others feedback as arguments, stated that they have to be convinced, and said they would not “wilt and accept another’s opinion” would that come off as defensive to you?
Not at all.
I find nothing rude or disrespectful about arguing points of opinion.
Any good idea should be offered with a solid argument, or it’s not a good idea.
I have a lot more respect for people that clearly articulate their stance and what they would need/want to change their mind.
I assume people have reasons for thinking the way they do and in order to respect that they are intelligent, I would have to provide a solid argument for any contrary belief I offered up. Otherwise I’m assuming that their belief was built on nothing and can be changed by my whims.
I dislike confusing workouts and too many transitions. No need to be overly creative. I prefer couplets and triplets. If you want to go 40 minutes do an EMOM of 4 movements.
I can understand having preferences, but there’s no rule that long workouts need to be EMOMs.
I’m surprised so many people hate the workout. This type of workout was never my favorite, but I’ve been to many gyms that do this on Saturdays or Fridays and so many people love it.
Curious why you don’t like renegade rows. If done correctly, they’re a good back movement coupled with anti-rotation work.
And the workout is structured like this to deal with space and equipment constraints for 30+ people classes.
I don't like most combination movements. You're half assing two things instead of whole assing one thing. If you want to do a DB row, do a full ROM DB row.
Yes. Sharing all reps. The only caveats are that the run is done together with one partner carrying the wall ball at a time and that the 300 singles can be performed at the same time, for 150 each.
Yes?
We often do longer workouts on Saturdays. Lower intensity, little bit more aerobic feel. Do it with a partner and you’re resting half of the time in addition to the rest between stations.
If I walked in and saw this on the board I would assume I just needed to pick one. Once I heard it was all of them, I would seriously consider walking out. What is the stimulus you’re trying to accomplish here? It’s so unnecessarily complicated.
Ok, I’ll take the bait, here’s your constructive feedback…just thinking about safety for the average Saturday WOD (not layout or bottlenecks) I would put rope climbs sooner in the workout. TTB, RR rows and curls can all diminish grip/arm strength.
Great point.
I had a quarter of people ending on that section, I probably could’ve encouraged more groups to do that one sooner.
I didn’t factor in the grip from the dumbbell movements or jump rope in my head.
I also would change up the reps for the row/sit-up. I think they are confusing and assuming you don’t have a ton of rowers I think that could be a bottleneck with the ascending and descending reps. If rower availability is a potential issue I would move the jump rope here to free up rowers and allow more people to workout without waiting. Then you could turn the burpee pull ups and TTB wod into a couplet. Some people don’t like the RR and curls but lots of people who pay for memberships like movement such as these…
The one note with the rowers is that they’re upstairs on a loft, separate from the rest of the gym. I was able to put AbMats upstairs and not have to worry about transition time up and down the stairs.
As far as the rep scheme, that one could’ve been simpler. It was the only one people had to “know” because it was the only one they couldn’t see while working.
I mean others have said it already, this is just a bunch of random stuff following random rep schemes. Our Saturday classes are also for fun and can be longer, but still follow a traditional rep scheme and have a certain stimulus.
It's definitely hard with a 30 person class and I don't know what you did this week already/what your equipment and space look like but I think there's quite a bit of room to improve here.
I agree there’s always room for improvement.
I haven’t seen any comments with any real and valid suggestions, except for just “Do Fight Gone Bad”.
In the scheme of things it’s 1 day of fitness and each of the sections were an 8-10 minute time domain. But what do I know about fitness or programming?
The time domains are fine, it's just the format and too many movements.
Generally unless it's a chipper there's no reason to have so many movements. I'd just do 4 couplets with a similar rep scheme on each of them. Something simple like a cardio machine or burpees, jump rope, running etc paired with a weighted movement or something on each station. The way you have it set up is just complexity for the sake of complexity.
Another issue is how you drastically change the stimulus; you go from a couplet to 10 sets of 10 for a triplet to doing 300 jump rope in a row twice (for a lot of gen pop crossfitters 600 jump rope would be a lot without all the other stuff added). There isn't any consistency between the four sections, and there really needs to be. Each of those on their own might be an okay workout but have no place lumped together.
Chipper type stimulus was exactly the goal here. I just got creative to keep from having bottlenecks.
And what’s wrong with 150 singles in one go?
Also, there’s no reason to keep everything as a couplet.
I picked movements we hadn’t just done in the last 2 days, which is why no burpees and only the rower of the machines.
I’m by no means claiming that it’s perfect. But everyone seems to have far too rigid an idea of how fitness works. Distinctions in exercise are purely man made. Getting some creativity and thinking about the stimulus you want to achieve coupled with the muscle groups and pacing on a broad scale gives you so much freedom in training.
Do the couplets, do the emoms, but for heaven’s sake don’t limit yourself.
Nothing wrong with 150 singles, I guess I misunderstood your intended breakup since you only specified for the 2nd workout YGIG and thought it was 300 each.
I still don't know what stimulus you want to achieve though. From my perspective, you change it up every time:
1) Sprint style workout. Between quick cals and ab mats you can burn this one quick.
2) Strength gym-bro workout with DB snatches thrown in for some reason? I've never seen bicep curls or renegade rows as part of a for time workout, kinda odd.
3) Looks like it's trying to be a normal Metcon, but why are there only 10 T2B? What's the point of doing only 10 reps of that movement? You won't gain anything from that, it's not like it's a heavier lift or anything.
4) Another Metcon, but by this point you've done a bunch of bicep curls, ren. rows, rowing, pull-ups, and now you're asking for another pulling movement?
Also as much as possible you should try to make the workout simple enough to commit to memory so people aren't constantly looking at the board. Every 4-part partner WOD I've done at my gym this is the case, I can fluidly go into the next section without wondering what the hell the new rep scheme or movements were. I would be frustrated for having to constantly check this one.
If it worked for your class and you all enjoyed it and felt like you got something out of it I'm glad for you and your group. But if I walked in and saw this was my workout for the day I would assume the person who wrote it doesn't have a C1 or any background in fitness programming. I'd be pretty bummed honestly. This is coming from someone who has done CF for 12 years and has a degree in sports science as well as experience as a programmer and physical trainer.
Bicep curls and renegade rows don’t belong in a wod. Bicep curls especially don’t belong in a “for time” workout
You have 11 unique movements here, erratically placed and/or repeated. This is quite a Frankenstein tbh
Curious why you don’t think bicep curls belong on in a for time workout? This is probably only the 2nd, maybe third time ever I’ve been part of a workout with bicep curls (unless you count dumbbell hang cleans) and only the first time I’ve been the one to program them into the workout.
Not saying they’re a staple, but you gave specific feedback on that and I would appreciate your reasoning.
I agree that if you’re training for strength alone, sure you get more from a negative. But the same can be said for literally every exercise movement. Strict pull ups and deadlifts are frequently programmed movements but the most strength gains come from strict negative.
Do you have another reason for this?
While both bicep curls and back squats can provide benefit from controlled tempos, larger compound lifts also generally have a large, systematic demand that isolated smaller movements don’t. That drives the demand in a workout designed to illicit a metabolic response. A set of 15 curls that reaches muscular failure really won’t affect much else. A set of 15 squats to true failure will completely ruin you.
You could argue efficiency of movement and/or conditioning could be had from typical wod movements (not saying I agree with everything 100% but I can see it). Take ttb for example, sure a slow negative, calisthenics style will make you strong and nimble, but being able to string them together efficiently in a for time workout requires solid technique and conditioning.
All I see a bicep curl doing is isolating the bicep and maybe some grip and burning you out. No chance people are doing proper reps if the stimulus communication was “do this as fast as possible”, and no way is the same weight being used for that (where all the others should have the same Rx db weight - no guys are curling 2x50lb for time).
I would ask back what the logic of including the bicep curls was.
I believe I understand your opinion on this. Though I still think the same principles apply. I use strict T2B to train the strength portion. Kipping toes to bar are more conditioning than strength.
The bicep curls in conjunction with rows and snatches was a final pump/burn mainly within anaerobic muscle capacity at the end of each round.
The bigger point however is your use of “RX”. Rx is whatever the programmer decided it is. I absolutely did not want anyone using 50s and so I made it clear that the weight to be used was based on your curl weight, because I wanted the renegade rows to be performed correctly without twisting the hips up each rep. “Rx” for men was about 30-35lbs in this case.
So anaerobic lifting for time? That doesn’t make any sense, sorry. Those are conflicting ideologies.
And you’ve now got 3 weights here for men’s Rx? 30-35 for men’s renegade row, 50s for the db snatch, and then like 20-25 for the curls? That’s making a mess of the gym, especially when you say you have 30+ ppl doing this
Lifting is anaerobic. I don’t think I understand what you’re saying.
And no. There is one weight. That’s what I just said. I wanted the weight for all 3 movements to be based on the curls to keep the weight lighter to ensure proper form.
Just fyi Rx men’s weight for db snatch is 50. That’s universal, and if you are programming something that makes you think 50 is too much in the context of the workout, then the workout is programmed wrong. And having men curl 35lb as fast as they can is insane, I’m sorry but there’s no other way to put that.
For a point of reference, my gym is programmed by a games athlete (who also trains numerous other competitive cf athletes) and we have a separate coach who coaches bodybuilding specifically. We had 70+ members in qf this year. The bodybuilding class is heavy and hard. The strongest guys are never curling more than 35lbs, probably in sets of 6-8. We would never do that weight in a speed workout, and never at that volume, and I’m guessing our athletes are more primed than whoever you made this for
I agree with a lot of the criticisms of this workout, but saying there is only one RX weight possible for a movement is absurd. 50/35 for DB snatches is common (my gym calls that the Open standard) but I’ve programmed different weights. Don’t limit yourself to what you’ve seen other people program or what is likely in the Open.
Can I ask what made you program it differently than 50? I’m being particularly hard on OP bc his explanation was 1 it is what I say it is bc I write the workout and 2 it’s 30-35 (insanely light) so that people can then be forced to rip rapid fire heavy db curls. That’s not realistic. If there’s a good reason I’m here for it but there’s not a reason to break the standard for that
Let’s separate it from OPs general conversation. Generally I’ve programmed 50, but don’t limit myself to that. I like
heavier snatches in lower rep ranges- challenges people to actually use explosiveness from the hips, not just reaching through a requisite ROM. I program for a decent sized population where many can handle the 50/35 for workouts like the open, so I probably wouldn’t RX a lighter weight for that specific movement. DB snatches easily morph into a “lean over and reach up”, but plenty of movements lend themself to loading below traditional standards. You can get a great response from light squats, push press etc. Think of the unweighted Thrusters in Jackie.
I do think that anyone creating the workout should feel free to RX whatever weight they believe delivers the intended output best. That can be specific to who they have in front of them.
You’re just wrong on the RX comment. Rx is whatever is prescribed. Sorry.
Your note about bodybuilding is odd because bodybuilders don’t train for strength, they train for aesthetic so what they lift is irrelevant to strength training.
It sounds like you’re really passionate and enjoy your gym though, so that’s great. I’m glad you found somewhere that works for you. Though, bragging that your most primed athletes can’t curl more than 35 is a really weird flex…
It’s not a flex. It’s a point of context for you to help you avoid asinine programming like this. But you’re clearly here to argue with everyone. Rx is what’s prescribed and you’re the doctor of your gym - awesome power trip
Rx men’s db is 50lbs. That’s what it is in the open, that’s what it is at every gym I’ve been to - dozens of them across the US and prob 15 other countries. It’s certainly never 30-35lbs
Rx literally means “as prescribed”. No point in getting mad at me for choosing a dumb point to try to argue.
Thanks for the context. I hope your bodybuilding workouts are rewarding for you.
It seems you have some incredibly rigid ways of thinking being influenced by your experience. But I’m happy to have answered these questions for you.
Criticism:
1) If "rest as needed" then workout is not "for time". Either is fine, just pick one.
2) Too many pulling movements.
3) Four different rep schemes.
Advice:
Make it a long chipper that you'd get about 2 rounds of at a chill pace, since that seems to be the intent. No more than 10 total movements.
Space out running, skipping and rowing with pressing and pulling moves. Pick reps so that each set is about 1-2 minutes.
Id say remove bicep curls and one other pulling move, throw in pushups and/or DB push press, maybe some box jumps too?
I like these. The “rest as needed” was spoken for between rounds. 1-3 minutes between sections if needed.
Point 2, ya probably too much pull to overcompensate for the pushing emphasis earlier in the week. We had done push ups the day prior, so I was thinking wallballs.
Box jumps could be good too except for space unless I dropped the doubles?
What do you think about
For 11 movements, plus warm-up, cool-down, demos, etc. this would take forever to coach this class. Block 1, the rower to sit-up sounds like it would just destroy my butt from sitting for so long.
as someone who has done crossfit for fun for a couple of years but struggles with bad stamina, coming into class i would find this workout very stressful and overwhelming
🥲 but it looks super fun if i was fitter!
I like it. I'm also a fan of the long, multi workout style days. Will have to give it a go.
Guessing parts 1,3, and 4 are broken up at athletes' discretion?
This looks like you picked 4 people out from your class and had them write up a random WOD on the spot lol. I’d be pissed if this was the “programming” my gym produced
Wayyyy too much programming i didn't know if i was meant to choose one piece or do all. Also seems too jumbled, whats the aim from i, bicep curls and renegade rows (maybe) good isolation moves but paired with the snatches what is the point to isolate and build muscle or get the HR up and build endurance ?
It's a long grinder of a bunch of random stuff. If that's what you're going for, have at it. Bicep curls and renegade rows for time are not repeatable movement with good points of performance. I definitely wouldn't think of this workout and being something to retest, so why overall...meh have fun. Why post asking for thoughts then argue every response.
When I asked for thoughts I anticipated actual examples of improvement. Feedback such as “it’s trash and you should do something different” is worthless because it doesn’t dissect anything and isn’t usable. I knew the style of workout would ruffle some feathers, but I definitely underestimated how offended people would be by its existence. Things might appear random to people, especially when they aren’t familiar with the flow of a gym, the workouts that have been done that week, or if they can’t recognize the way movement patterns are being used to either complement each other or the way rep schemes and partner structure are being used to influence pacing.
You're right, providing a thoughtful critique on a workout without context of gym surroundings and programming history isn't really possible. Hence why you're seeing the "its trash" a lot, because their response reflects the information given on the post.
Agreed. Though, like I said, the extent of the dismay is much greater than I anticipated. I expected more discussion and questions/suggestions along the lines of modifying a movement within a section, or adjusting a rep/round scheme, or changing about the order of the sections. I didn’t anticipate it turning into a top down, moralistic critique of how every CrossFit workout that’s in a longer time domain “should” be. But suppose that’s what I get for not including photos of the gym, a blue print, and the last 5 weeks programming of this cycle along with the full injury and capabilities catalog of all the members most likely to attend a Saturday morning workout.
All I am seeing from you is "I asked people their thoughts on a workout with absolutely zero context and they hated it". Your week's programming leading up, your gym layout, your programming skill, the ability of your athlete base, etc are all IRRELEVANT if all you do is post a picture of a kitchen-sink workout and say "whattaya think, guys!?" then get offended when everyone hates it because the context, which YOU failed to provide, is missing. That said, what I see is a long-ass confusing workout where the intended stimulus is a mystery. Typically, a Saturday partner workout, intended stimulus would be to get a great workout, and have fun. I am dubious that either are accomplished here. Also, any time I see a 40 minute cap, I am suspect that the programmer knows that much about delivering a quality program to their clients. But, again - there's zero context here except a snapshot.
Oh, I’m not offended at all! I really don’t take anything personally. Especially not anonymous internet comments. The 40 minute time as a cap was fairly unnecessary because just about everyone finished up just under the 40 minutes
We call this the “any asshole” workout. Meaning any asshole could’ve written it.
You guys really crack me up. Criticism isn’t an impressive skill without real actionable feedback. The best part of the whole workout was how smoothly it ran and how happy everyone was for something different.
You crack me up, you ask about people’s thoughts on the workout yet you get defensive and double down when several folks tell you it’s shit.
Maybe instead of saying it’s shit, you could use words like “I don’t think it’s a good workout for so.. and so.. reason”. I’d liken your comment to an “assholes critique” meaning you’re just being an asshole.
There's plenty of legitimate critiques up and down the thread. OP doesn't want to hear those either.
I’ve had several great conversations with actual feedback. But I’m glad you feel validated in your opinions. That’s really important.
r/Crossfit isnt very impressed. The people who pay you to write their programming and come to your gym 5 times a week love it. Maybe everyone on r/Crossfit is wrong, or maybe the people in your gym have self selected for being into this kinda stuff. Personally, looks like a workout for the "effort athletes". Rope climbs are about the only thing on there that requires any skill. Consider adding 10min open time at the end for all the people who loved it to share about how they were all state honorable mention D4 football player, and then "considered the NFL but focused on academics instead"
Thanks for your comment. You about summed it up in that first paragraph. This workout was **far** from typical programming, and was intentionally included on a Saturday morning where there’s more freedom for *fun*. And ya, every gym is different. I like that people at our gym sign up for classes the day ahead, because it allows us to make adjustments and plan for people in most cases. This workout style was actually something I borrowed from a couple other gyms from when I lived out west, and actually not even my own favorite type of workout to do.
Too much going on. If anyone brings a friend there will not be time for form correction on anything. If you really feel like you need 11 different movements in a workout, you need to structure it simpler, I think. Fight gone bad x2 would work with a cash out at the end to do as a class maybe, like an 800m burden run. That gives new people time to adapt to what they’re doing without context switching constantly. To save equipment space, have partners chase each other and stagger the fight gone bad scheme
We didn’t have any new people coming to classes today. We do everything we can to schedule new people during the week and have a set protocol for that. The purpose wasn’t that 11 different movements were “needed”, but that we have so many people attend on Saturdays that in order to have enough space to workout I made 4 mini workouts that use different parts of the gym. It’s safest this way because I don’t have people at risk of dropping wall balls on other people or whipping someone with jump ropes.
Right, which is why I said fight gone bad with chasing. You can have groups of up to 6. For 30 people, that’s 5 wall balls, 5 rowers, probably more dumbbells for different abilities, 5 jump rope areas, etc. It’s probably also a better workout than allowing every group of X to partition reps however they want, which is a large criticism posted in this very sub almost daily about partner workouts. You know what, just literally do fight gone bad with a proper warm up and cool down. Maybe sub sumo deadlift high pulls because those cause cherry picking.
If that would work in your gym, awesome! And you sound really passionate that this is the *right* answer, so I won’t tell you otherwise. For our gym space, this wouldn’t work for a couple reasons. One, is taking into consideration the types of workouts we already did this week as well as the stimuli. Another reason is the layout of our gym. But we did something different and everyone had fun today, got a good workout, and nobody was hurt. To me, that’s an absolute 10/10 day.
You asked for feedback, you got it. The thread wasn’t titled “Praise This Saturday WOD”. You’re coming off as super defensive (IMO).
Not looking for praise. I was looking for constructive conversation on an individual workout. Not for someone to say “just do Fight Gone Bad”. But thanks for your feedback. I’m not defensive at all. I just believe that if someone has a good argument, that they should be able to convince me of it rationally. Not expect me to wilt and accept their opinion because they said so.
If someone other than yourself were to describe others feedback as arguments, stated that they have to be convinced, and said they would not “wilt and accept another’s opinion” would that come off as defensive to you?
Not at all. I find nothing rude or disrespectful about arguing points of opinion. Any good idea should be offered with a solid argument, or it’s not a good idea. I have a lot more respect for people that clearly articulate their stance and what they would need/want to change their mind. I assume people have reasons for thinking the way they do and in order to respect that they are intelligent, I would have to provide a solid argument for any contrary belief I offered up. Otherwise I’m assuming that their belief was built on nothing and can be changed by my whims.
I dislike confusing workouts and too many transitions. No need to be overly creative. I prefer couplets and triplets. If you want to go 40 minutes do an EMOM of 4 movements.
40 minute EMOM with different movements would work well also, agreed. I’d still cut the time and do more warmup though.
I can understand having preferences, but there’s no rule that long workouts need to be EMOMs. I’m surprised so many people hate the workout. This type of workout was never my favorite, but I’ve been to many gyms that do this on Saturdays or Fridays and so many people love it.
You don't have to do every movement in every workout. Just saying. Also renegade rows are trash.
Curious why you don’t like renegade rows. If done correctly, they’re a good back movement coupled with anti-rotation work. And the workout is structured like this to deal with space and equipment constraints for 30+ people classes.
I don't like most combination movements. You're half assing two things instead of whole assing one thing. If you want to do a DB row, do a full ROM DB row.
Okay, I see what you’re saying. From a strength standpoint I would agree with you, that DB rows would produce more force outright.
There is no intention or plan to this, it’s mindless nonsense. Trying to “destroy” people is not programming.
Not sure which part you think “destroys” people?
Partner workout, right? So sharing the reps? At first I thought it looked like a crazy intense workout, but now it makes sense.
Yes. Sharing all reps. The only caveats are that the run is done together with one partner carrying the wall ball at a time and that the 300 singles can be performed at the same time, for 150 each.
I’d complain the entire time, but have fun while doing it. 👍🏼
I like you.
40 min time cap?
Yes? We often do longer workouts on Saturdays. Lower intensity, little bit more aerobic feel. Do it with a partner and you’re resting half of the time in addition to the rest between stations.
I’ve never seen bicep curls for time before
Gotta have some fun every once in a while
[удалено]
Rx Weight is 35/20lbs DBs for this workout and 14/10 for Wall Balls.
If I walked in and saw this on the board I would assume I just needed to pick one. Once I heard it was all of them, I would seriously consider walking out. What is the stimulus you’re trying to accomplish here? It’s so unnecessarily complicated.
The goal for most Saturdays is to have fun. Each portion was 8-10 minutes with 1-3 minutes rest in between.
The fact you think your penmanship is bad.. I literally wrote stuff down and can’t read it 5 minutes later….
This is one of my better jobs. But it still falls apart as I write. My poor kindergarten teacher told me to practice more and I just didn’t listen
Ok, I’ll take the bait, here’s your constructive feedback…just thinking about safety for the average Saturday WOD (not layout or bottlenecks) I would put rope climbs sooner in the workout. TTB, RR rows and curls can all diminish grip/arm strength.
Great point. I had a quarter of people ending on that section, I probably could’ve encouraged more groups to do that one sooner. I didn’t factor in the grip from the dumbbell movements or jump rope in my head.
I also would change up the reps for the row/sit-up. I think they are confusing and assuming you don’t have a ton of rowers I think that could be a bottleneck with the ascending and descending reps. If rower availability is a potential issue I would move the jump rope here to free up rowers and allow more people to workout without waiting. Then you could turn the burpee pull ups and TTB wod into a couplet. Some people don’t like the RR and curls but lots of people who pay for memberships like movement such as these…
The one note with the rowers is that they’re upstairs on a loft, separate from the rest of the gym. I was able to put AbMats upstairs and not have to worry about transition time up and down the stairs. As far as the rep scheme, that one could’ve been simpler. It was the only one people had to “know” because it was the only one they couldn’t see while working.
Y’all this guy isn’t looking for actual feedback. Ever
If it isn’t my favorite person! I always love the Kingdom Hearts reminder I get from your username. I hope you’ve been doing well!
This is what happens when “constantly varied” is interpreted as “random”
I mean others have said it already, this is just a bunch of random stuff following random rep schemes. Our Saturday classes are also for fun and can be longer, but still follow a traditional rep scheme and have a certain stimulus. It's definitely hard with a 30 person class and I don't know what you did this week already/what your equipment and space look like but I think there's quite a bit of room to improve here.
I agree there’s always room for improvement. I haven’t seen any comments with any real and valid suggestions, except for just “Do Fight Gone Bad”. In the scheme of things it’s 1 day of fitness and each of the sections were an 8-10 minute time domain. But what do I know about fitness or programming?
The time domains are fine, it's just the format and too many movements. Generally unless it's a chipper there's no reason to have so many movements. I'd just do 4 couplets with a similar rep scheme on each of them. Something simple like a cardio machine or burpees, jump rope, running etc paired with a weighted movement or something on each station. The way you have it set up is just complexity for the sake of complexity. Another issue is how you drastically change the stimulus; you go from a couplet to 10 sets of 10 for a triplet to doing 300 jump rope in a row twice (for a lot of gen pop crossfitters 600 jump rope would be a lot without all the other stuff added). There isn't any consistency between the four sections, and there really needs to be. Each of those on their own might be an okay workout but have no place lumped together.
Chipper type stimulus was exactly the goal here. I just got creative to keep from having bottlenecks. And what’s wrong with 150 singles in one go? Also, there’s no reason to keep everything as a couplet. I picked movements we hadn’t just done in the last 2 days, which is why no burpees and only the rower of the machines. I’m by no means claiming that it’s perfect. But everyone seems to have far too rigid an idea of how fitness works. Distinctions in exercise are purely man made. Getting some creativity and thinking about the stimulus you want to achieve coupled with the muscle groups and pacing on a broad scale gives you so much freedom in training. Do the couplets, do the emoms, but for heaven’s sake don’t limit yourself.
Nothing wrong with 150 singles, I guess I misunderstood your intended breakup since you only specified for the 2nd workout YGIG and thought it was 300 each. I still don't know what stimulus you want to achieve though. From my perspective, you change it up every time: 1) Sprint style workout. Between quick cals and ab mats you can burn this one quick. 2) Strength gym-bro workout with DB snatches thrown in for some reason? I've never seen bicep curls or renegade rows as part of a for time workout, kinda odd. 3) Looks like it's trying to be a normal Metcon, but why are there only 10 T2B? What's the point of doing only 10 reps of that movement? You won't gain anything from that, it's not like it's a heavier lift or anything. 4) Another Metcon, but by this point you've done a bunch of bicep curls, ren. rows, rowing, pull-ups, and now you're asking for another pulling movement? Also as much as possible you should try to make the workout simple enough to commit to memory so people aren't constantly looking at the board. Every 4-part partner WOD I've done at my gym this is the case, I can fluidly go into the next section without wondering what the hell the new rep scheme or movements were. I would be frustrated for having to constantly check this one. If it worked for your class and you all enjoyed it and felt like you got something out of it I'm glad for you and your group. But if I walked in and saw this was my workout for the day I would assume the person who wrote it doesn't have a C1 or any background in fitness programming. I'd be pretty bummed honestly. This is coming from someone who has done CF for 12 years and has a degree in sports science as well as experience as a programmer and physical trainer.
Plenty of the comments are valid. You just aren’t capable of taking feedback after asking for it. You’re right at home on Reddit!
I actually took several points of feedback but okay! I hope you’re having a good day!
Bicep curls and renegade rows don’t belong in a wod. Bicep curls especially don’t belong in a “for time” workout You have 11 unique movements here, erratically placed and/or repeated. This is quite a Frankenstein tbh
Curious why you don’t think bicep curls belong on in a for time workout? This is probably only the 2nd, maybe third time ever I’ve been part of a workout with bicep curls (unless you count dumbbell hang cleans) and only the first time I’ve been the one to program them into the workout. Not saying they’re a staple, but you gave specific feedback on that and I would appreciate your reasoning.
Because much of the benefit of curls comes from a slow negative.
I agree that if you’re training for strength alone, sure you get more from a negative. But the same can be said for literally every exercise movement. Strict pull ups and deadlifts are frequently programmed movements but the most strength gains come from strict negative. Do you have another reason for this?
While both bicep curls and back squats can provide benefit from controlled tempos, larger compound lifts also generally have a large, systematic demand that isolated smaller movements don’t. That drives the demand in a workout designed to illicit a metabolic response. A set of 15 curls that reaches muscular failure really won’t affect much else. A set of 15 squats to true failure will completely ruin you.
I agree with you there. That’s a valid point.
You could argue efficiency of movement and/or conditioning could be had from typical wod movements (not saying I agree with everything 100% but I can see it). Take ttb for example, sure a slow negative, calisthenics style will make you strong and nimble, but being able to string them together efficiently in a for time workout requires solid technique and conditioning. All I see a bicep curl doing is isolating the bicep and maybe some grip and burning you out. No chance people are doing proper reps if the stimulus communication was “do this as fast as possible”, and no way is the same weight being used for that (where all the others should have the same Rx db weight - no guys are curling 2x50lb for time). I would ask back what the logic of including the bicep curls was.
I believe I understand your opinion on this. Though I still think the same principles apply. I use strict T2B to train the strength portion. Kipping toes to bar are more conditioning than strength. The bicep curls in conjunction with rows and snatches was a final pump/burn mainly within anaerobic muscle capacity at the end of each round. The bigger point however is your use of “RX”. Rx is whatever the programmer decided it is. I absolutely did not want anyone using 50s and so I made it clear that the weight to be used was based on your curl weight, because I wanted the renegade rows to be performed correctly without twisting the hips up each rep. “Rx” for men was about 30-35lbs in this case.
So anaerobic lifting for time? That doesn’t make any sense, sorry. Those are conflicting ideologies. And you’ve now got 3 weights here for men’s Rx? 30-35 for men’s renegade row, 50s for the db snatch, and then like 20-25 for the curls? That’s making a mess of the gym, especially when you say you have 30+ ppl doing this
Lifting is anaerobic. I don’t think I understand what you’re saying. And no. There is one weight. That’s what I just said. I wanted the weight for all 3 movements to be based on the curls to keep the weight lighter to ensure proper form.
Just fyi Rx men’s weight for db snatch is 50. That’s universal, and if you are programming something that makes you think 50 is too much in the context of the workout, then the workout is programmed wrong. And having men curl 35lb as fast as they can is insane, I’m sorry but there’s no other way to put that. For a point of reference, my gym is programmed by a games athlete (who also trains numerous other competitive cf athletes) and we have a separate coach who coaches bodybuilding specifically. We had 70+ members in qf this year. The bodybuilding class is heavy and hard. The strongest guys are never curling more than 35lbs, probably in sets of 6-8. We would never do that weight in a speed workout, and never at that volume, and I’m guessing our athletes are more primed than whoever you made this for
I agree with a lot of the criticisms of this workout, but saying there is only one RX weight possible for a movement is absurd. 50/35 for DB snatches is common (my gym calls that the Open standard) but I’ve programmed different weights. Don’t limit yourself to what you’ve seen other people program or what is likely in the Open.
Can I ask what made you program it differently than 50? I’m being particularly hard on OP bc his explanation was 1 it is what I say it is bc I write the workout and 2 it’s 30-35 (insanely light) so that people can then be forced to rip rapid fire heavy db curls. That’s not realistic. If there’s a good reason I’m here for it but there’s not a reason to break the standard for that
Let’s separate it from OPs general conversation. Generally I’ve programmed 50, but don’t limit myself to that. I like heavier snatches in lower rep ranges- challenges people to actually use explosiveness from the hips, not just reaching through a requisite ROM. I program for a decent sized population where many can handle the 50/35 for workouts like the open, so I probably wouldn’t RX a lighter weight for that specific movement. DB snatches easily morph into a “lean over and reach up”, but plenty of movements lend themself to loading below traditional standards. You can get a great response from light squats, push press etc. Think of the unweighted Thrusters in Jackie. I do think that anyone creating the workout should feel free to RX whatever weight they believe delivers the intended output best. That can be specific to who they have in front of them.
You’re just wrong on the RX comment. Rx is whatever is prescribed. Sorry. Your note about bodybuilding is odd because bodybuilders don’t train for strength, they train for aesthetic so what they lift is irrelevant to strength training. It sounds like you’re really passionate and enjoy your gym though, so that’s great. I’m glad you found somewhere that works for you. Though, bragging that your most primed athletes can’t curl more than 35 is a really weird flex…
It’s not a flex. It’s a point of context for you to help you avoid asinine programming like this. But you’re clearly here to argue with everyone. Rx is what’s prescribed and you’re the doctor of your gym - awesome power trip Rx men’s db is 50lbs. That’s what it is in the open, that’s what it is at every gym I’ve been to - dozens of them across the US and prob 15 other countries. It’s certainly never 30-35lbs
Rx literally means “as prescribed”. No point in getting mad at me for choosing a dumb point to try to argue. Thanks for the context. I hope your bodybuilding workouts are rewarding for you. It seems you have some incredibly rigid ways of thinking being influenced by your experience. But I’m happy to have answered these questions for you.
Criticism: 1) If "rest as needed" then workout is not "for time". Either is fine, just pick one. 2) Too many pulling movements. 3) Four different rep schemes. Advice: Make it a long chipper that you'd get about 2 rounds of at a chill pace, since that seems to be the intent. No more than 10 total movements. Space out running, skipping and rowing with pressing and pulling moves. Pick reps so that each set is about 1-2 minutes. Id say remove bicep curls and one other pulling move, throw in pushups and/or DB push press, maybe some box jumps too?
I like these. The “rest as needed” was spoken for between rounds. 1-3 minutes between sections if needed. Point 2, ya probably too much pull to overcompensate for the pushing emphasis earlier in the week. We had done push ups the day prior, so I was thinking wallballs. Box jumps could be good too except for space unless I dropped the doubles? What do you think about
For 11 movements, plus warm-up, cool-down, demos, etc. this would take forever to coach this class. Block 1, the rower to sit-up sounds like it would just destroy my butt from sitting for so long.
as someone who has done crossfit for fun for a couple of years but struggles with bad stamina, coming into class i would find this workout very stressful and overwhelming 🥲 but it looks super fun if i was fitter!
Did everybody have fun? If so, who cares
I like it. I'm also a fan of the long, multi workout style days. Will have to give it a go. Guessing parts 1,3, and 4 are broken up at athletes' discretion?
Yes, that’s right. All the reps are split between the athletes.
This looks like you picked 4 people out from your class and had them write up a random WOD on the spot lol. I’d be pissed if this was the “programming” my gym produced
Looks like a dumb workout
Wayyyy too much programming i didn't know if i was meant to choose one piece or do all. Also seems too jumbled, whats the aim from i, bicep curls and renegade rows (maybe) good isolation moves but paired with the snatches what is the point to isolate and build muscle or get the HR up and build endurance ?
BICEP CURLS? Forget about it
I think I would enjoy this workout.
This is terrible. Way too much going on.
Ever tried filthy 50? That’s a lot going on!