Yeah one of my favorite google recruiters that always asked if I was still interested in interviewing got laid off but other than him the 4 main recruiter contacts I worked with closely somehow aren’t laid off.
Thank you for this reminder. Lately I've lost my patience with recruiters who write LinkedIn messages like: "Hey there! I have a super duper job you might find interesting. Let's schedule a 15 minute call to discuss!!!!"
My experience leads me to believe those recruiters usually only to get people added to their networks to meet quotas and none of them have ever come back to me with anything after that first message. Now I insist that they send me at least the full job description and salary before scheduling any calls.
I have had two recruiters in the last 6-10 months who were legit, and I'd work with them if they reach out with anything interesting. 1) Scheduled regular follow-ups to check in and passed along job descriptions. 2) Went out of her way to get me an interview at a place because she saw value in something listed on my LinkedIn and made me feel like a real person instead of just a number to meet her quota.
Yeah I was so used to dealing with bad recruiters that when I occasionally ran into a good one the difference was night and day. Although they don’t all have to be amazing connections. A connection is a connection. I had this one recruiter who wrote shitty messages that were essentially just a doc with a job desc attachment and a short message like email me your resume if you’re interested.
Somehow this recruiter always found jobs in niche teams within large companies that paid way more than what the company usually pays their software engineers. For example he’d reach out with a gig for Capital One where ik the salary is 120k/130k-ish for their office around me, but he’d say “it’s a SE role on their voice recognition team salary range: 180k-200k w/ 10k sign on bonus.” Now granted I bombed every one of those interviews, but hey 3 times in a row this guy got me interviews for roles paying 30-40k over what the standard SE makes at these companies before he gave up on me.
I got my current role via a recruiter I'd talked with previously. I switched my LinkedIn status to open to work and the dude messaged me just a couple of hours later. He reached out with what turned into my current role and I got a 50% pay increase out of the deal and lots of quality of life improvements to boot!
You really can’t trust a lot of them, but a good indicator is they reach out with a job that’s actually relevant to your **current gig** indicating they read your profile (if they reference some skill from a few gigs ago they’re probably just casting a wide net with a search you came up in and don’t give af if the job is a good fit). Also I automatically don’t trust any mention of contracting gigs. A major plus is if they mention the name of the company right away. When they say things like recruiting “for a major fintech startup” and no company name I get the vibe they don’t want me doing research on this company until they’ve had a chance to go over it in a call.
WITCH (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, and HCL Tech) are the India-based consulting companies. In general not great environments if you can find something better as they generally train you and try to bill you for it if you leave before you've been there 2 years or something similar. Not necessarily bad companies to work for though, I hear it varies.
This seems to only be a thing in India. I worked with 2 of them and had coworkers and none of them or me had to do this. We’re in the US.
Also it sounds like you’re talking about another company that does this to everyone. Forgot their name.
If you’re in the US, it’s not that bad to get experience and leave.
Everyone here complains about how they can’t find a job with 3 internships and a bachelors - meanwhile I had 0 internships, 0 bachelors, and applied at 0 places.
Then a recruiter messaged me. Within 2 weeks I had my first iOS software engineer role at one of the biggest bank’s enterprise app.
Got experience, left. Got more experience at another WITCH, left. Now I’m at big tech at $250,000.
Because they found me on LinkedIn - after having experience. To this day, I have applied at 0 places - everywhere I interviewed it was recruiters who messaged me.
Also, did you really ask why I didn’t go to big tech for my first job? Because it’s not easy. I’ve failed 4 big tech interviews. I feel like they prepared me for my current job.
My point is a WITCH is good to get experience. Once you get experience, it makes it way easier to get future jobs. Better than no experience.
I just thought big tech, at least maybe at entry level, was mainly about passing leetcode and I guess the behavioral stuff. Glad to hear my couple years of experience might benefit me. You say the experience helped prepare you for the job. Would you say it also benefited you in passing the interviews too? I might take a swing at the big leagues after finishing my 2nd year.
The only time big tech interviewers reached out to me on LinkedIn was after I had some experience.
I also didn’t do leetcode before this. The 2 positions I had at WITCH companies were just iOS questions. Which was easy enough for me.
My current role at big tech didn’t ask leetcode either. It was iOS projects with live coding. I’m pretty good at that.
Yes I’m aware that networking is the key when it comes to job hunting, but HOW TO is my question. Like what do you send first? Hi, I’m interested in so and so role? What did you send at first which helped you to build connection - so good - that they’re still in touch??
Here’s what you do:
If you’re actively job searching, find companies you’re interested in with a job posting you think you fit. Search that company’s people on LinkedIn for “technical recruiter” etc. Send a short message and connection request to the people you find saying “Hey I’m so and so and saw your post for this position. I’m extremely interested in hearing more about your company and this role for xyz reasons. Here’s a copy of my resume” (fluff it up a bit with your own words).
Do the same thing with engineering managers at companies you think look interesting EXCEPT don’t reference open job listings, that’s not their job. Frame it as wanting to hear about what they and their company are working on. Again, don’t ask for a reference or help getting hired, you’re just connecting with well positioned like minded people. Building your network.
Finally, so the same with actual engineers at companies you find interesting. Same rules as not asking for references or anything like that.
Let these people know you’re looking for work through your LinkedIn activity. Post about your job search and whatever project you’re working on/skills you’re learning. Your new connections will see your posts and stay up today with your progress (if they’re active on LinkedIn).
More LinkedIn followers = more engagement on your activity = more eyes seeing your profile = more opportunities coming your way
Also, when the job market was good, recruiters were reaching out to engineers constantly- I’d get like one a day for a while. Not as much of that happening right now.
They reached out to me. 2 of em were involved throughout the entire interview process in my last two jobs. The other two worked closely with me on separate occasions where I was interviewing for fintech trading companies and make it all the way to the third/fourth rounds before getting rejected.
However these are just my go to recruiters. I still message every recruiter I denied earlier, asking if they know of any good back-end roles and the key is since our last conversation wasn’t rude or a time waste, they’ll often respond with something. Basically you don’t have to maintain a strong connection with any recruiter, you just have to leave off at a place where you can message them down the road if you’re searching.
Reminds me how I ignored a recruiter. But I was so bored at my job that I contacted them back a while later.
Then got my first job at big tech making $250,000.
Yeah I get you. Eh suck up was the wrong wording alls I do is copy and paste a template just like they did when they reached out to me lol. As long as they remember me for responding back quickly with a nice sounding response i’m set to potentially reach out to them later if things get rough.
I use a simple test to sort good recruiters from bad recruiters.
If they've got a role in mind, I ask for the job description, pay range, and percentage remote work. If they answer those 3 questions within the next message or two, they're good and we continue the conversation.
If they don't, or insist on a phone call, they get politely rejected and forgotten.
The rare recruiters who open the conversation with those details get a thank you, immediately added to my network, and we continue the conversation.
And then afterwards I assume you looked over to your coworkers at your big N job said later losers and walked straight into Zuck’s office to demand a promotion which he gave to you after you proved you could do a kick flip over his desk and submit a PR at the same time.
For real lol. I just hate the fucking animosity people have towards recruiters especially in places like r/recruitinghell. Recruiters are just the messengers and the majority of the time, the bad news they gotta deliver has to do with decisions made by the hiring managers. And trust me, they usually try their absolute fucking hardest to persuade hiring managers who aren't always easy to deal with.
Of the many recruiters I've responded to, only one actually responded back saying thanks. And the ones I requested an appt with just ghost me. So fuck em, I can just reach out when I need to.
Half the recruiters I've worked with have been laid off. Tech recruiting is in an even worse place then tech is, for obvious reasons.
Yeah one of my favorite google recruiters that always asked if I was still interested in interviewing got laid off but other than him the 4 main recruiter contacts I worked with closely somehow aren’t laid off.
Thank you for this reminder. Lately I've lost my patience with recruiters who write LinkedIn messages like: "Hey there! I have a super duper job you might find interesting. Let's schedule a 15 minute call to discuss!!!!" My experience leads me to believe those recruiters usually only to get people added to their networks to meet quotas and none of them have ever come back to me with anything after that first message. Now I insist that they send me at least the full job description and salary before scheduling any calls. I have had two recruiters in the last 6-10 months who were legit, and I'd work with them if they reach out with anything interesting. 1) Scheduled regular follow-ups to check in and passed along job descriptions. 2) Went out of her way to get me an interview at a place because she saw value in something listed on my LinkedIn and made me feel like a real person instead of just a number to meet her quota.
Yeah I was so used to dealing with bad recruiters that when I occasionally ran into a good one the difference was night and day. Although they don’t all have to be amazing connections. A connection is a connection. I had this one recruiter who wrote shitty messages that were essentially just a doc with a job desc attachment and a short message like email me your resume if you’re interested. Somehow this recruiter always found jobs in niche teams within large companies that paid way more than what the company usually pays their software engineers. For example he’d reach out with a gig for Capital One where ik the salary is 120k/130k-ish for their office around me, but he’d say “it’s a SE role on their voice recognition team salary range: 180k-200k w/ 10k sign on bonus.” Now granted I bombed every one of those interviews, but hey 3 times in a row this guy got me interviews for roles paying 30-40k over what the standard SE makes at these companies before he gave up on me.
I got my current role via a recruiter I'd talked with previously. I switched my LinkedIn status to open to work and the dude messaged me just a couple of hours later. He reached out with what turned into my current role and I got a 50% pay increase out of the deal and lots of quality of life improvements to boot!
how do you know when you can trust a recruiter? before i got my job any recruiter that contacted me was of the predatory WITCH type
You really can’t trust a lot of them, but a good indicator is they reach out with a job that’s actually relevant to your **current gig** indicating they read your profile (if they reference some skill from a few gigs ago they’re probably just casting a wide net with a search you came up in and don’t give af if the job is a good fit). Also I automatically don’t trust any mention of contracting gigs. A major plus is if they mention the name of the company right away. When they say things like recruiting “for a major fintech startup” and no company name I get the vibe they don’t want me doing research on this company until they’ve had a chance to go over it in a call.
What is WITCH ? Sorry, I am falling behind the times…
WITCH (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, and HCL Tech) are the India-based consulting companies. In general not great environments if you can find something better as they generally train you and try to bill you for it if you leave before you've been there 2 years or something similar. Not necessarily bad companies to work for though, I hear it varies.
This seems to only be a thing in India. I worked with 2 of them and had coworkers and none of them or me had to do this. We’re in the US. Also it sounds like you’re talking about another company that does this to everyone. Forgot their name.
If you’re in the US, it’s not that bad to get experience and leave. Everyone here complains about how they can’t find a job with 3 internships and a bachelors - meanwhile I had 0 internships, 0 bachelors, and applied at 0 places. Then a recruiter messaged me. Within 2 weeks I had my first iOS software engineer role at one of the biggest bank’s enterprise app. Got experience, left. Got more experience at another WITCH, left. Now I’m at big tech at $250,000.
Why was the experience necessary for you to get into big tech? Couldn’t you have interviewed with them before you had the other jobs?
Because they found me on LinkedIn - after having experience. To this day, I have applied at 0 places - everywhere I interviewed it was recruiters who messaged me. Also, did you really ask why I didn’t go to big tech for my first job? Because it’s not easy. I’ve failed 4 big tech interviews. I feel like they prepared me for my current job. My point is a WITCH is good to get experience. Once you get experience, it makes it way easier to get future jobs. Better than no experience.
I just thought big tech, at least maybe at entry level, was mainly about passing leetcode and I guess the behavioral stuff. Glad to hear my couple years of experience might benefit me. You say the experience helped prepare you for the job. Would you say it also benefited you in passing the interviews too? I might take a swing at the big leagues after finishing my 2nd year.
The only time big tech interviewers reached out to me on LinkedIn was after I had some experience. I also didn’t do leetcode before this. The 2 positions I had at WITCH companies were just iOS questions. Which was easy enough for me. My current role at big tech didn’t ask leetcode either. It was iOS projects with live coding. I’m pretty good at that.
Yes I’m aware that networking is the key when it comes to job hunting, but HOW TO is my question. Like what do you send first? Hi, I’m interested in so and so role? What did you send at first which helped you to build connection - so good - that they’re still in touch??
Here’s what you do: If you’re actively job searching, find companies you’re interested in with a job posting you think you fit. Search that company’s people on LinkedIn for “technical recruiter” etc. Send a short message and connection request to the people you find saying “Hey I’m so and so and saw your post for this position. I’m extremely interested in hearing more about your company and this role for xyz reasons. Here’s a copy of my resume” (fluff it up a bit with your own words). Do the same thing with engineering managers at companies you think look interesting EXCEPT don’t reference open job listings, that’s not their job. Frame it as wanting to hear about what they and their company are working on. Again, don’t ask for a reference or help getting hired, you’re just connecting with well positioned like minded people. Building your network. Finally, so the same with actual engineers at companies you find interesting. Same rules as not asking for references or anything like that. Let these people know you’re looking for work through your LinkedIn activity. Post about your job search and whatever project you’re working on/skills you’re learning. Your new connections will see your posts and stay up today with your progress (if they’re active on LinkedIn). More LinkedIn followers = more engagement on your activity = more eyes seeing your profile = more opportunities coming your way Also, when the job market was good, recruiters were reaching out to engineers constantly- I’d get like one a day for a while. Not as much of that happening right now.
Wow! Thanks a lot!!
They reached out to me. 2 of em were involved throughout the entire interview process in my last two jobs. The other two worked closely with me on separate occasions where I was interviewing for fintech trading companies and make it all the way to the third/fourth rounds before getting rejected. However these are just my go to recruiters. I still message every recruiter I denied earlier, asking if they know of any good back-end roles and the key is since our last conversation wasn’t rude or a time waste, they’ll often respond with something. Basically you don’t have to maintain a strong connection with any recruiter, you just have to leave off at a place where you can message them down the road if you’re searching.
I used to always say, thank you and reach back in six months. My current job is from one of them, that I followed up with six months later.
Reminds me how I ignored a recruiter. But I was so bored at my job that I contacted them back a while later. Then got my first job at big tech making $250,000.
I’d suck up to them if they weren’t all algo trading and defense firms. Can’t even work for the latter!
Yeah I get you. Eh suck up was the wrong wording alls I do is copy and paste a template just like they did when they reached out to me lol. As long as they remember me for responding back quickly with a nice sounding response i’m set to potentially reach out to them later if things get rough.
I use a simple test to sort good recruiters from bad recruiters. If they've got a role in mind, I ask for the job description, pay range, and percentage remote work. If they answer those 3 questions within the next message or two, they're good and we continue the conversation. If they don't, or insist on a phone call, they get politely rejected and forgotten. The rare recruiters who open the conversation with those details get a thank you, immediately added to my network, and we continue the conversation.
I did the better thing and removed all recruiters from my network.
And then afterwards I assume you looked over to your coworkers at your big N job said later losers and walked straight into Zuck’s office to demand a promotion which he gave to you after you proved you could do a kick flip over his desk and submit a PR at the same time.
For real lol. I just hate the fucking animosity people have towards recruiters especially in places like r/recruitinghell. Recruiters are just the messengers and the majority of the time, the bad news they gotta deliver has to do with decisions made by the hiring managers. And trust me, they usually try their absolute fucking hardest to persuade hiring managers who aren't always easy to deal with.
Of the many recruiters I've responded to, only one actually responded back saying thanks. And the ones I requested an appt with just ghost me. So fuck em, I can just reach out when I need to.