I think simply from how black operates when it unconditionally draws a card, it should lose life. But I see where this is headed, it's pretty clever too.
That’s true, but I was going for that. This card is designed to be a much/slightly better village rites for a format with neither.
Otherwise your totally right, this card should prob lose 1 life per card given you can turn one it so much more easily.
How so? Draws a card, gains 2 life by itself, draws two and gains 4 life with a creature to sac. Did lifegain suddenly become highly valued or something?
The weakness of cards like rites is their narrow use cases. This is infinitely more flexible, has more synergy with spells matter and lifegain cards, is a potential turn 1 play, can be cast again later… it’s just significantly better in every way. You’re removing the narrowness of cards like rites while adding more to it at the same time.
Great analysis of the card! I would also not discount the incidental Life gain, as the person to whom you are replying. 4 Life is a lot in certain match ups, and can be the difference between stabilizing and loosing the game.
This card is nuts!
The fact I can play this just straight up in my control deck as a means to get card advantage and gain life. Sign me up. This is great early, fills the yard, triggers magecraft esk abilities, and gives me card advantage.
Village rites is solid, and it's massive draw back is you have to have creatures. In the real world the flashback probably costs {2}{B}, Sac a creature.
[[Revitalise]] Is so jealous
In the real world this initially costs 1B or makes you lose a life instead of gaining and has, say a flashback cost of B, sacrifice a creature you control
If you still want a stronger village rites (which I think this still is, since it lets you cantrip until you need the sac, and rewards self mill) you could make both players lose 1 life.
for comparison [[Crushing Disappointment]] does basically the same thing, but is way more expensive because it was some draft garbage, so the effect is still pretty on-brand for black
Blood is a really interesting design space, I think something similar would work really well with that, but slapping ‘create a blood token’ on here would definitely push it over the edge
So I think the issue isn't that the whole package (cast + flashback) is better than village rites, but that the front half is a quite strong cantrip and feels like it encroaches on something blue should be best at. I think a Dimir Phoenix sort of deck would be pretty excited by this. I think life loss on both halves would be reasonable, that or sorcery speed.
A lot of decks play some amount of [[Cabal Therapy]] just for the flashback cost, I could see this as being superior for a lot of them even just from the instant speed. Dredge might still prefer the hand disruption version, while I think Nic Fit would really like the card advantage from this.
I don't think this card should be printed, the whole black loses life to draw,
But for your set I think it's perfectly fine lol, that set is pretty high power. I wanna jam my 2 drop Planeswalker and start making 2/2 tokens indefinitely.
This is way past bonkers in dredge decks. Mill over narcomoeba, flashback this saving the narcomeba, dredge back another card, unbelievable value and power from the yard and free. In legacy dredge with bridge from below this is just an insane card
Breaks color pie and is too powerful for 1 mana. (B), sac a creature: draw 2 and gain 2 life. It would be a Vintage staple and thrown onto the restricted list.
I think simply from how black operates when it unconditionally draws a card, it should lose life. But I see where this is headed, it's pretty clever too.
This should cost life, as otherwise it’s a “Sac a creature; Draw 2 cards” with upside for 1 mana.
That’s true, but I was going for that. This card is designed to be a much/slightly better village rites for a format with neither. Otherwise your totally right, this card should prob lose 1 life per card given you can turn one it so much more easily.
Power crept village rites is fine. Village rites isn’t a particularly playable card
Yes but this is HILARIOUSLY power crept village rites
How so? Draws a card, gains 2 life by itself, draws two and gains 4 life with a creature to sac. Did lifegain suddenly become highly valued or something?
The weakness of cards like rites is their narrow use cases. This is infinitely more flexible, has more synergy with spells matter and lifegain cards, is a potential turn 1 play, can be cast again later… it’s just significantly better in every way. You’re removing the narrowness of cards like rites while adding more to it at the same time.
Great analysis of the card! I would also not discount the incidental Life gain, as the person to whom you are replying. 4 Life is a lot in certain match ups, and can be the difference between stabilizing and loosing the game.
This card is nuts! The fact I can play this just straight up in my control deck as a means to get card advantage and gain life. Sign me up. This is great early, fills the yard, triggers magecraft esk abilities, and gives me card advantage. Village rites is solid, and it's massive draw back is you have to have creatures. In the real world the flashback probably costs {2}{B}, Sac a creature. [[Revitalise]] Is so jealous
[Revitalise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a9fb75e-c8e5-417b-83d4-5105af9c66c1.jpg?1631046075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revitalize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/23/revitalize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a9fb75e-c8e5-417b-83d4-5105af9c66c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In the real world this initially costs 1B or makes you lose a life instead of gaining and has, say a flashback cost of B, sacrifice a creature you control
That is not particularly strong nowadays....
Thinking I’m probably going to make this lose 1 life every instance, based on comments that seems to be the right move for sure
If you still want a stronger village rites (which I think this still is, since it lets you cantrip until you need the sac, and rewards self mill) you could make both players lose 1 life.
That is an excellent an flavourful idea, the power of this card definitely lies in its ability to cantrip on turns as early as 1
for comparison [[Crushing Disappointment]] does basically the same thing, but is way more expensive because it was some draft garbage, so the effect is still pretty on-brand for black
[Crushing Disappointment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fbe8cf1-11df-4ca4-9a6b-265193c49250.jpg?1624590861) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crushing%20Disappointment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/68/crushing-disappointment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fbe8cf1-11df-4ca4-9a6b-265193c49250?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Adding 'create a blood token' could also make it interesting, though maybe doing a little too much at that point
Blood is a really interesting design space, I think something similar would work really well with that, but slapping ‘create a blood token’ on here would definitely push it over the edge
You could have it lose life first but gain life if it was cast from a graveyard
I’d do the opposite, gain life first then lose life from the grave, since the flashback is free manawise.
Basically a better [[village rites]], regardless of lifegain
Indeed, that’s what it’s supposed to be.
So I think the issue isn't that the whole package (cast + flashback) is better than village rites, but that the front half is a quite strong cantrip and feels like it encroaches on something blue should be best at. I think a Dimir Phoenix sort of deck would be pretty excited by this. I think life loss on both halves would be reasonable, that or sorcery speed.
[village rites](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/2841339b-faef-407d-9838-d03fe80e6294.jpg?1698988289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=village%20rites) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/212/village-rites?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2841339b-faef-407d-9838-d03fe80e6294?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A lot of decks play some amount of [[Cabal Therapy]] just for the flashback cost, I could see this as being superior for a lot of them even just from the instant speed. Dredge might still prefer the hand disruption version, while I think Nic Fit would really like the card advantage from this.
[Cabal Therapy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f5b12f0-986f-43d0-a81b-64111e7f17e6.jpg?1580014199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Therapy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/83/cabal-therapy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f5b12f0-986f-43d0-a81b-64111e7f17e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great flavor (no pun intended)
I would love flashback sac. a creature in red. 1R, instant deal four damage to target creature or planeswalker, flashback sac. a creature
I don't think this card should be printed, the whole black loses life to draw, But for your set I think it's perfectly fine lol, that set is pretty high power. I wanna jam my 2 drop Planeswalker and start making 2/2 tokens indefinitely.
Cheaper \[\[revitalize\]\] with flashback.
[revitalize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a9fb75e-c8e5-417b-83d4-5105af9c66c1.jpg?1631046075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=revitalize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/23/revitalize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a9fb75e-c8e5-417b-83d4-5105af9c66c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Make it a common. Otherwise, no notes.
I only use three rarities for these designs, purely for semantic purposes.
I think it's a little bit op, more for aristocrats decks
This is way past bonkers in dredge decks. Mill over narcomoeba, flashback this saving the narcomeba, dredge back another card, unbelievable value and power from the yard and free. In legacy dredge with bridge from below this is just an insane card
Strictly Better [[Revitalize]]
[Revitalize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a9fb75e-c8e5-417b-83d4-5105af9c66c1.jpg?1631046075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revitalize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/23/revitalize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a9fb75e-c8e5-417b-83d4-5105af9c66c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Breaks color pie and is too powerful for 1 mana. (B), sac a creature: draw 2 and gain 2 life. It would be a Vintage staple and thrown onto the restricted list.
Honestly if this was a common without flashback, it would be good. As it is now. I just feel it is too much.