Dagmar Geisler has a handful of books that are useful to convey the idea of good touch (a hug from someone when you want a hug from them) and bad touch, without going into "listen here, pedophiles exist".
*My Body Belongs to Me from My Head to My Toes* is one of them. Bad touch doesn't even mean a pedophile. It can mean being forced to give a hug to grandma when the kid doesn't want to, or someone tickling them when they don't want to be, or violence.
Same author has other books about awkward topics, where babies come from, feelings, "I don't want to go with strangers", etc.
We are very fortunate to have in laws that don’t push for hugs or kisses. Even our last doctor (male) told my 5 year old daughter that he’s only examining her because her dad (me) was there and she was okay with it.
Jumping in to say that I personally attended so many "stranger danger" things as a kid without anyone ever actually saying WHY you should be afraid of strangers. As such, I am not a big fan of all of the tiptoeing around telling kids the fact that first if all there are sick people who want to hurt kids and somcpletely ignoring the second part that the majority of abusers are members of the family/socially connected to the family anyway.
Just a heads up, the concept of “stranger danger” is pretty dated since often it’s a KNOWN person (family member or friend) who molests them. With that in mind, we taught our girls about healthy touching - hugs, kisses, etc. that they *want* (including masturbation) or doctor’s examination that they might *need*. We also talked to them about unhealthy touching - any hugs, kisses, touching that they don’t want/need or that someone asks/tells them to keep secret. We also have talked about the difference between a secret that makes them uncomfortable versus one that makes them happy (i.e. like a surprise party for a friend that we have to keep secret).
Last bit of advice, use the real names for all body parts. Penis, vulva, anus, breast. If something should happen, adults will take more seriously a little girl who says, “Uncle Frank touched my vulva.” versus “Uncle Frank touched my cookie/ruby/flower/kitty/etc.”
The way we put it to our kids is that there should never be secrets - and then described secrets as "things that we are not supposed to tell each other", but surprises are ok. A surprise is something that is going to make a person happy when we tell them later.
And followed up with how important it is to tell us if anybody ever asks them to keep a secret from us.
Bluey is 100% inspirational and aspirational as a parent.
It is amazing the sheer volume of good parenting modeled in that show, as well as the modeling of appropriate child behaviour for the kids watching it - and it still manages to be a pretty awesome show that doesn't come across as preachy.
I’ve seen a description that really hits it on the head: “Bluey is a parenting show that kids happen to like to watch.”
To OP’s point: I’m dreading this conversation with my daughter as it is - so thank you for asking this. (Definitely following the thread for good pointers, and just bought the Geisler book.)
When you go to a dog trainer, the dog trainer is actually training the owner, not the dog. The dog gets some short-term bonus from being there, but the actual dog training is done long term, by the owner.
To me, its appropriate that a cartoon about dogs is training the parent, so they can long-term train their kids. The kids get a short-term bonus from being there.
> Just a heads up, the concept of “stranger danger” is pretty dated since often it’s a KNOWN person (family member or friend) who molests them.
This is correct, OP. Now it's about "tricky people", people who try to trick you into doing things that will hurt you. Top of the list is any adult who asks a kid for help; safe adults don't need a kid's help, so tell Mom and Dad if an adult asks you for help and we can let you know if it's a safe adult or a tricky adult.
This is super great!
Even if my parents have always warned me about the stranger danger and never follow anyone you don't know anywhere, I myself at 9 yo followed a guy in the bushes as he asked me for help to get changed..
That day I was extremely lucky he only wanted to exhibit his perversion and did not touch me, otherwise nobody would have found me.
*SAFE ADULTS DON'T NEED A KID'S HELP*
What age is not too early to start using anatomically correct terms? Had an argument with wife about that who thinks it’s not appropriate at all till much later
Mine is 3 months and took a massive poop this morning. I talk to him all the time when we do anything.
Today while changing him was "wow that really got up under your balls. Time to wipe up your scrotum. Please stop trying to grab your penis so we can get a new diaper on."
First word might be perineum at this rate
We don’t call our elbows “bendies,” why should only certain body parts (i.e the “shameful” ones) have cutesy nicknames? This just reinforces the puritanical shame and stigma about bodies. We’ve called body parts by their actual names since our girls were born.
Also, it can cause a lot of confusion when there is a problem.
When are 30 kids in a class, the teacher might not stop what they are doing if a kid says their "cookie hurts". But the teacher will stop everything if they hear "my vagina hurts"
Bendies what on earth never heard that one before. I can understand the logic for renaming the private parts (well private parts itself is a nice euphemism), but why rename the other body parts. Also I guess we don’t say “did you shit” to the toddler we say “did you poopoo” which is again the same thing. But, if a situation calls for it (like say getting hurt down there from falling or worse someone touch or hit it) then I would much rather call the part what it is and not get hung up on cute euphemisms.
The point the other person is making is that there is no logic for renaming any parts. Nobody says bendies, that’s why you haven’t heard it, and similarly, making up a silly name that isn’t widely understood for a penis or vulva doesn’t help anyone and has no purpose or logic behind it except that some adults are uncomfortable with those words through illogical learned shame.
The moment they are born. Same with consent. I’d tell my 1.5 year old that I am overriding her consent because she has a bad rash and needs medical cream on her vulva. I explained why I need to do it.
Education is protection man. Predators rely on ignorance.
Hard disagreement one that one. We have used anatomical terms from the first time they asked about anything or we needed to refer to that part of their body.
My counter argument would be that is exactly how a doctor would talk about them, regardless of their age.
Sit down and have a conversation about why it wouldn't be appropriate. People tend to fall on the "rushing kids through childhood" side or "they'll say it in front of grandma" side. Finding out the reasoning and addressing that can make the actual learning of terms not a big deal.
We had a preschool who essentially said, "we talk about body parts using these terms. Here's some literature why, but your other option is to disenroll." My wife and I had never really had a stance either way on it and just went with whatever, but after stopping and talking it through it was pretty clear there's not a downside that can't be dealt with.
> Just a heads up, the concept of “stranger danger” is pretty dated since often it’s a KNOWN person (family member or friend) who molests them
Further more, we've told our son that if we ever get separated in a public place, if they can't find someone in a uniform (*any* uniform, even Mickey at Disneyland), to ask any family for help. If they can't see a family, any adult will do.
A random person chosen on the street is not likely to be a predator. He's better off choosing who can help him, than having someone choose him.
On our street, we've told him that in an emergency, he can go to any of our neighbors houses who have kids he's played with. The logic being, that's a smaller set of people, each of which we interact with very regularly. There are other people we know on the street that we know well who don't have kids, and people who we don't know well, and nothing against them at all: we just wanted easy to remember criteria without having to figure out "which of our dozens of people in the neighborhood could he have gone to?"
I like the "find a family" idea. Some will accuse us of misandry, but we told our girls to "find a woman." While, yes, there are female predators, the odds are much smaller. It's also good to know folks in the neighborhood who they can turn to in a pinch.
>adults will take more seriously a little girl who says, “Uncle Frank touched my vulva.” versus “Uncle Frank touched my cookie/ruby/flower/kitty/etc.”
Yep, proper terms is incredibly important. This can mean the difference between an innocent or guilty verdict if "Uncle Frank" was ever put on trial.
Using a euphemistic name is enough for many jurors and judges to have "reasonable doubt", which means the predator would get away with it.
What we’ve focused on, apart from explaining private areas, is the idea of “tricky adults.” I don’t want my kids to think every “stranger” is out to get them, because objectively that’s not true; and most cases of abuse involve someone the child knows.
So, for example, when adults have a problem, they don’t ask a kid they don’t know for help, so if someone you don’t know asks for help finding their dog, that’s a tricky adult. If someone you don’t know asks you to go with them to another place, that’s a tricky adult. Etc. For us, the ultimate contrast to a tricky adult is a mom with kids. If we get separated, look for a mom with kids and ask for help.
This has served us pretty well without having to get graphic about the harms kids can be exposed to.
As for your daughter, I wouldn’t stress too much about it. You can work on helping her control the impulses to talk about things you think are inappropriate, but I’d consider that a separate issue from warning your kids about tricky adults.
Interesting idea about only looking for a mom with kids. It seems like a generalization but honestly if you had to generalize something I can’t think of a better one
I learned it from a friend who had kids a couple years before me, so it’s possible there’s some expert on “tricky adults” out there and we’re all working out of the same playbook.
> For us, the ultimate contrast to a tricky adult is a mom with kids. If we get separated, look for a mom with kids and ask for help.
Honestly, in an emergency situation going up to anyone they feel comfortable going up to is probably the best bet. The vast majority of people are good, and if the kid is choosing who to approach they are most likely going to get someone who is not a bad person.
I saw recently that advice was not only an adult with kids but a black adult with kids. The statistics are heavily favored that a white male will commit child crimes so you’re safer with black families than white, statistically speaking.
> ultimate contrast to a tricky adult is a mom with kids.
This sub always goes on and on about how much they hate being called baby sitters, or how much they hate getting dirty looks just because they are a guy at the park with their kids etc.
Then here we are spreading the exact same fears. 99.9999% of men mean your children no harm and would go way out of their way to help. Statistically a mom with kids is exactly as safe as a random guy on the street.
It’s a true double standard though.
As much as everyone likes to insist “Women can be predators too!!1!!” And find fringe cases to prove their point, the VAST MAJORITY of sexual predators are men.
Don’t tell your kid to be just as afraid of a chihuahua as a pit bull because “they both *could* bite you.” I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings.
I get your thinking this is a double standard but people being offended are rarely perfectly logically consistent and that's ok
Like if I told my wife to go lug a bunch of heavy shit she wouldn't want to. Yet if I said "I'll lift that because you can't, your tiny woman arms are pitiful and weak" she would be offended, even though it's technically true.
When I grew up, my mother told me and my sister about how she had been SA’d by both her grandfather and a stranger on the way home from school (separate instances) She told us from personal experience to be wary of both strangers and family.
I had poor self esteem when I was a kid. I was chubby and I didn’t get along well with other kids. I remember during one of these talks saying something along the lines of, “Well I’m probably safe. People like that would only go after pretty girls”. It was the most upset I’ve ever seen my mom. But she grabbed my wrist and looked me in the eye.
“You are NOT safe. There are men who rape babies. There are men who rape elderly people in their hospital beds.”
I think that particular talk was given to me before we went on a Disney cruise. I would have been around 11 and I was going to have an unprecedented amount of free time/unsupervised time on the ship.
I think it’s important not to sugar-coat it. It might be upsetting to see her afraid. But better to be afraid than dumb and complacent.
Am boy, was SA. I never really "got over it" since boys are basically pressured to not talk about stuff. Society has a lot of work to do in a lot of ways.
I was very explicit with my kids, specially my youngest when she revealed my ex did not do any significant education.
I went by statistics, be very careful of men, but even women can be dangerous.
Dad was safe, but not all dads are safe, and if dad got a brain tumour, or whatever even dad could turn unsafe.
I taught her rules of thumb, but also to think.
One of her school friends, another girl got a bit handsy with her, and she set boundaries up.
As many have said better start education young about self care.
I taught her to be careful of people, and even parked cars on the streets.
I continuously see alerts for lost youth age 12 to 16 average.
My now adult daughter always jokes with her friends how I never minced words.
Look up Protect Young Eyes on instagram, they have a lot of resources on these conversations and can be really helpful.
They use phrases like “tricky people” instead of pedophile to help keep the conversation more digestible and easier to grasp. Perhaps searching that phrase will lead you to more kid friendly resources.
>I made absolutely sure to explain that this is why we have so many rules about strangers.
Why focus on strangers when most abuse is done by family and people you know?
As an SA victim myself I feel like I really hyper focused on this issue with my Daughter. She’s 4 years olds her mom and I have always told her that her privates are hers and no one is to be looking at them and definitely not touch them. We always used correct terminology instead of referencing her vagina as her “tutu” or something (using that example because my mom did that with my sister) reasoning on that being that we have told her to tell a trustworthy adult what if anything happens. Teacher or her parents at this point.
This has led to one instance already while she was at school one of her classmates came into her stall and she looked at my daughters privates making her uncomfortable. My daughter was able to tell the teacher who handled the situation at school and both the teacher and my daughter were able to tell us what happened so we could come to a solution for this not to happen again.
I know there’s stranger danger songs made toward kids on YouTube and other resources like that out there but the most important thing I would think is telling them yourself.
This is new territory for me so I’m all ears + have a son. But here’s a quick story. My friend watches my 1yo son along with her almost 3yo daughter. They were at a store sitting in a dual stroller and he grabbed her arm, which she didn’t like and responded by yelling “DONT TOUCH MY BODY!!!!”. My friend is proud she taught her that but she was not ready for that to happen in public to a 1yo 😆
I remember seeing something that talked about suspicious behaviors rather than people. Kids are generally wary of strangers but the fact is that kids are usually targeted by a trusted adult. A good practice is to teach your child about suspicious behaviors, such as an adult asking a child for help or to keep a secret. Assure them that no matter what they do, they will not get in trouble and if they let you know a stranger can not hurt them or the child. These are the common tactics abusers use
First and foremost I applaud you for having these conversations with your children, especially at a young age. Far to many parents wait too long, or because of political/religious reasons don't have these talks with their kids. I have 3 kids, 2 boys and a girl. We've had these discussions with them starting at around 4 or 5. I think the key to these discussions is not "dumming" them down, or trying to use scare tactics. We were very straight forward and factual in our discussions, not being overly graphic, but just talking honestly and candidly to them... kids, even that young, are a lot more perceptive and smart than a lot of people give them credit for.
Another thing that I feel gets ignored in these conversations a LOT is talking about consent. Not just to the boys but the girls need to hear about it as well, even if in a slightly different manner.
And back to a sidebar from my first statement, our school district and several others in our area announced that they're going to start including this topic into curriculum and omg the amount of ire from certain parts of the community is horrendous, even though they have the option to have their children opt out... it's unfortunate that these are discussions we need to have with our children, but someone needs to do it, and if you're not going to have these discussions with your kids, who better than a trained educator?
I started by teaching my kids consent and bodily autonomy from baby stage. We use proper names for genitals and are candid about sex ed. Most predators are known to the victim and employ grooming that relies on their ignorance. Education is protection.
Now my daughter is 8 and begs to be a youtube star. I’ve had to explain why I don’t allow her and the danger, that not all people are good and some are evil. I said that there are people out there who specifically target kids and that it’s not safe. We talk about internet dangers and how she should never share real info.
Here's the rub:
If your children get assaulted, it will 99% be from a person in a position of trust and familiarity. Of course you can "street proof" them, but the offenders are most likely going to be coaches, clergy, extended family... Not necessarily in that order... Odds are it won't be a rando on the street.
Many offenders are not textbook "pedophiles". It's the feeling of power they get and the opportunity given.
When your kids are older, they will most likely be assaulted by dates, team mates, co-workers, and acquaintances.
It's why it's so important to teach consent - giving and getting. No one, not even mommy or daddy can touch you there if you don't want them to.
You can't "spot a pedophile"
We use “Tricky people”. There are tricky people out there that may want kids to do thing they don’t want to do. A tricky adult will ask you to keep secrets and no adult should ever ask kids to keep secrets, especially from mom or dad..
Play-therapist might be a good option if you haven't considered it. Might help out with the other challenges you mentioned in your post? No harm in looking outside for help, that's just my opinion but you know your little one so I'll see myself out if this is an unwanted suggestion. Best of luck.
"Strong Kids, Safe Kids" from 1984... My mom was a nurse at we grew up with the "Safety Kids" and the likes.
Oh wow. Looks like it's on YouTube. Hope it didn't age like milk.
https://youtu.be/vDd9Gjo2J2E?si=9knpYWy_VtgBzAVX
I explained to my kids that The Predator is an extraterrestrial creature that's highly skilled in hunting and has advanced technology and weaponry. The Predator is known for its distinctive appearance, including its dreadlock-like appendages, mandibles, and camouflage abilities. It's often portrayed as a formidable and cunning adversary, stalking its prey with stealth and precision.
"Honey, if you're ever in the woods and you hear a kind of weird growl from up in the trees, or you think you see some kind of shimmery translucent figure moving around, or 3 red dots appear on your chest, you should run and don't look back."
Unfortunately this is just something we, as parents, have to do ourselves. Every single time we go out in public, I've made sure my daughter knows to stay right next to me, either hold my hand or hold onto my pocket/belt, and to never talk to anyone she doesn't know.
As they say, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, we have to be there as much as we can and when we're not able to be with our children, we have to make sure that we've imparted enough knowledge and discipline and awareness onto them that they know what to do.
A lot of good age appropriate information linked below for you. They have lesson plans, worksheets, video series, etc. that can help reinforce safe behaviors you want to teach your kids. It’s evidenced based materials from a great organization.
https://www.missingkids.org/education/kidsmartz
https://www.missingkids.org/netsmartz/home
This is one of the richest towns in Massachusetts...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcboston.com/news/local/lexington-family-feels-unsafe-after-masked-man-allegedly-tried-to-grab-9-year-old-girl/3309244/%3famp=1
Stranger Danger is not nearly as important as knowing they can come to you about anything and trust you completely. Make sure they can tell you anything and you will believe them no matter what anyone else tells them. Because the sad truth is statistically speaking it's not gonna be some stranger in a van, it's gonna be someone close to you or your child. Teaching them to recognize grooming behaviour is just as important as being careful around strangers.
My county has a children’s advocacy center that has a body safety curriculum, as well as resources for parents to talk about consent, safe touches, etc.
https://www.cac-kent.org/resources/for-caregivers/
Good on you for dealing with this head-on.
I don’t have specific recommendations, but Feather Berkhower teaches a course on this sort of thing, that specifically focuses on body safety. She got into everything from who can be an issue, the need for trust (and the dangers of trust), and how to talk to your kids about it.
It’s at the same time one of the worst and best parenting events I’ve ever been to. You might look her up and see if she provides any resources on the subject.
Believe it or not... South Park. Crazy I know, but they have a few episodes that deal with matters like child abduction (title: Child abduction is not funny), one about molesters (Cartman joins Nambla), and frankly a ton of episodes that help put some of the darker aspects of our world into a humorous context.
May help to introduce them to the show with some more tame episodes like the "shit" one (also helps kinda get them used to bad words and not make a huge deal of it esp watching with you and you can put things into perspective).
Ive watched with my oldest since she was 7. I started watching SP when I was 9 or 10 myself, when they only had 2 seaons, many eons ago.
Not every episode, mind you, I know the show well and skip a bunch for her that are too sexual or inappropriate.
We've had a talk too that if she goes around repeating the stuff she hears on the show or tells anyone that we let her watch sometimes, she loses that privilege. So far, it's been going great. It's a nice treat to watch together. Lots of interesting discussion and we can rationalize some of the more absurd things.
Let me know if you want suggestions, then you can watch first and vet them to see if you feel it's worth it for you to watch together.
When I was five, my mom said nobody is allowed to touch my underwear. It's my secret. And I need to tell her if anyone wanted to see or touch my underwear...
Why should we be vigilant about it? Why are you stressing so much about such a rare occurrence? The odds of pedophiles messing with your kids is not worth the effort of trying to explain pedophilia to a 7 year old. Just live bruv.
Huh. That’s an interesting question. So I’ll answer it. The brother of one of my nearest and dearest is going to a federal prison because he was caught in possession of and dealing of child pornography. It was a long-term sting, so the evidence is longstanding and incontrovertible. This person has spent time with both of my girls and was considered a safe and trusted person. I have no direct reason to suspect he physically assaulted my daughters or his own niece or nephews, but we were all caught by surprise.
So, apparently not that fucking rare after all.
Yeah, you just gave me an absurd anecdotal example. What you described is really fucking rare. Look at the data and the statistics. Don’t project your fear of pedos onto your kids.
Dagmar Geisler has a handful of books that are useful to convey the idea of good touch (a hug from someone when you want a hug from them) and bad touch, without going into "listen here, pedophiles exist". *My Body Belongs to Me from My Head to My Toes* is one of them. Bad touch doesn't even mean a pedophile. It can mean being forced to give a hug to grandma when the kid doesn't want to, or someone tickling them when they don't want to be, or violence. Same author has other books about awkward topics, where babies come from, feelings, "I don't want to go with strangers", etc.
My body belongs to me is such a good book. My daughter is 4 and is happy and confidenent saying she doesn't want hugs/kisses/touching
We are very fortunate to have in laws that don’t push for hugs or kisses. Even our last doctor (male) told my 5 year old daughter that he’s only examining her because her dad (me) was there and she was okay with it.
Jumping in to say that I personally attended so many "stranger danger" things as a kid without anyone ever actually saying WHY you should be afraid of strangers. As such, I am not a big fan of all of the tiptoeing around telling kids the fact that first if all there are sick people who want to hurt kids and somcpletely ignoring the second part that the majority of abusers are members of the family/socially connected to the family anyway.
Didn’t think about this but Will buy! Thank you
Don’t need this just yet, but saving for later. Thanks for the tip.
Just a heads up, the concept of “stranger danger” is pretty dated since often it’s a KNOWN person (family member or friend) who molests them. With that in mind, we taught our girls about healthy touching - hugs, kisses, etc. that they *want* (including masturbation) or doctor’s examination that they might *need*. We also talked to them about unhealthy touching - any hugs, kisses, touching that they don’t want/need or that someone asks/tells them to keep secret. We also have talked about the difference between a secret that makes them uncomfortable versus one that makes them happy (i.e. like a surprise party for a friend that we have to keep secret). Last bit of advice, use the real names for all body parts. Penis, vulva, anus, breast. If something should happen, adults will take more seriously a little girl who says, “Uncle Frank touched my vulva.” versus “Uncle Frank touched my cookie/ruby/flower/kitty/etc.”
> a secret that makes them uncomfortable versus one that makes them happy I think it's useful for kids to distinguish between 'secret' and 'surprise'.
The way we put it to our kids is that there should never be secrets - and then described secrets as "things that we are not supposed to tell each other", but surprises are ok. A surprise is something that is going to make a person happy when we tell them later. And followed up with how important it is to tell us if anybody ever asks them to keep a secret from us.
[удалено]
Bluey is 100% inspirational and aspirational as a parent. It is amazing the sheer volume of good parenting modeled in that show, as well as the modeling of appropriate child behaviour for the kids watching it - and it still manages to be a pretty awesome show that doesn't come across as preachy.
I’ve seen a description that really hits it on the head: “Bluey is a parenting show that kids happen to like to watch.” To OP’s point: I’m dreading this conversation with my daughter as it is - so thank you for asking this. (Definitely following the thread for good pointers, and just bought the Geisler book.)
When you go to a dog trainer, the dog trainer is actually training the owner, not the dog. The dog gets some short-term bonus from being there, but the actual dog training is done long term, by the owner. To me, its appropriate that a cartoon about dogs is training the parent, so they can long-term train their kids. The kids get a short-term bonus from being there.
> Just a heads up, the concept of “stranger danger” is pretty dated since often it’s a KNOWN person (family member or friend) who molests them. This is correct, OP. Now it's about "tricky people", people who try to trick you into doing things that will hurt you. Top of the list is any adult who asks a kid for help; safe adults don't need a kid's help, so tell Mom and Dad if an adult asks you for help and we can let you know if it's a safe adult or a tricky adult.
This is super great! Even if my parents have always warned me about the stranger danger and never follow anyone you don't know anywhere, I myself at 9 yo followed a guy in the bushes as he asked me for help to get changed.. That day I was extremely lucky he only wanted to exhibit his perversion and did not touch me, otherwise nobody would have found me. *SAFE ADULTS DON'T NEED A KID'S HELP*
What age is not too early to start using anatomically correct terms? Had an argument with wife about that who thinks it’s not appropriate at all till much later
It's appropriate to use the anatomically correct terms the second they are born.
That’s what I think as well, guess I have to convince her.
Mine is 3 months and took a massive poop this morning. I talk to him all the time when we do anything. Today while changing him was "wow that really got up under your balls. Time to wipe up your scrotum. Please stop trying to grab your penis so we can get a new diaper on." First word might be perineum at this rate
Smh, not even using the word testicles.
Lol it's not a perfect science. Especially when in my head I'm going "holy fucking shit, literal shit, that is everywhere"
We don’t call our elbows “bendies,” why should only certain body parts (i.e the “shameful” ones) have cutesy nicknames? This just reinforces the puritanical shame and stigma about bodies. We’ve called body parts by their actual names since our girls were born.
Also, it can cause a lot of confusion when there is a problem. When are 30 kids in a class, the teacher might not stop what they are doing if a kid says their "cookie hurts". But the teacher will stop everything if they hear "my vagina hurts"
Well now I am going to call elbows "bendies"
I have referred to hands a couple times as "grabby squeezies".
Knees and elbows for me. Sorry, can't plant the flowers this weekend, my bendies are too sore.
Man, at my age, my bendies are always sore.
Bendies what on earth never heard that one before. I can understand the logic for renaming the private parts (well private parts itself is a nice euphemism), but why rename the other body parts. Also I guess we don’t say “did you shit” to the toddler we say “did you poopoo” which is again the same thing. But, if a situation calls for it (like say getting hurt down there from falling or worse someone touch or hit it) then I would much rather call the part what it is and not get hung up on cute euphemisms.
The point the other person is making is that there is no logic for renaming any parts. Nobody says bendies, that’s why you haven’t heard it, and similarly, making up a silly name that isn’t widely understood for a penis or vulva doesn’t help anyone and has no purpose or logic behind it except that some adults are uncomfortable with those words through illogical learned shame.
Ah okay, point made
Rock on brother
from the very start
The moment they are born. Same with consent. I’d tell my 1.5 year old that I am overriding her consent because she has a bad rash and needs medical cream on her vulva. I explained why I need to do it. Education is protection man. Predators rely on ignorance.
Hard disagreement one that one. We have used anatomical terms from the first time they asked about anything or we needed to refer to that part of their body. My counter argument would be that is exactly how a doctor would talk about them, regardless of their age.
If they're old enough to use the word 'arm' instead of calling it the pointy part, they are old enough to call it a penis instead of a weewee.
Sit down and have a conversation about why it wouldn't be appropriate. People tend to fall on the "rushing kids through childhood" side or "they'll say it in front of grandma" side. Finding out the reasoning and addressing that can make the actual learning of terms not a big deal. We had a preschool who essentially said, "we talk about body parts using these terms. Here's some literature why, but your other option is to disenroll." My wife and I had never really had a stance either way on it and just went with whatever, but after stopping and talking it through it was pretty clear there's not a downside that can't be dealt with.
Thats like saying they’re too young to know an arm is called an arm.
Our 2 year old has called her vagina a vagina since she could say the word. Probably ~14 months.
Day one. Our kid (3 years old) occasionally runs up to tell us she wiped her vulva after she peed.
> Just a heads up, the concept of “stranger danger” is pretty dated since often it’s a KNOWN person (family member or friend) who molests them Further more, we've told our son that if we ever get separated in a public place, if they can't find someone in a uniform (*any* uniform, even Mickey at Disneyland), to ask any family for help. If they can't see a family, any adult will do. A random person chosen on the street is not likely to be a predator. He's better off choosing who can help him, than having someone choose him. On our street, we've told him that in an emergency, he can go to any of our neighbors houses who have kids he's played with. The logic being, that's a smaller set of people, each of which we interact with very regularly. There are other people we know on the street that we know well who don't have kids, and people who we don't know well, and nothing against them at all: we just wanted easy to remember criteria without having to figure out "which of our dozens of people in the neighborhood could he have gone to?"
I like the "find a family" idea. Some will accuse us of misandry, but we told our girls to "find a woman." While, yes, there are female predators, the odds are much smaller. It's also good to know folks in the neighborhood who they can turn to in a pinch.
>adults will take more seriously a little girl who says, “Uncle Frank touched my vulva.” versus “Uncle Frank touched my cookie/ruby/flower/kitty/etc.” Yep, proper terms is incredibly important. This can mean the difference between an innocent or guilty verdict if "Uncle Frank" was ever put on trial. Using a euphemistic name is enough for many jurors and judges to have "reasonable doubt", which means the predator would get away with it.
What we’ve focused on, apart from explaining private areas, is the idea of “tricky adults.” I don’t want my kids to think every “stranger” is out to get them, because objectively that’s not true; and most cases of abuse involve someone the child knows. So, for example, when adults have a problem, they don’t ask a kid they don’t know for help, so if someone you don’t know asks for help finding their dog, that’s a tricky adult. If someone you don’t know asks you to go with them to another place, that’s a tricky adult. Etc. For us, the ultimate contrast to a tricky adult is a mom with kids. If we get separated, look for a mom with kids and ask for help. This has served us pretty well without having to get graphic about the harms kids can be exposed to. As for your daughter, I wouldn’t stress too much about it. You can work on helping her control the impulses to talk about things you think are inappropriate, but I’d consider that a separate issue from warning your kids about tricky adults.
Interesting idea about only looking for a mom with kids. It seems like a generalization but honestly if you had to generalize something I can’t think of a better one
Yeah in this case I think I’m fine with the 99.998% odds. Good enough for a rule.
This is exactly what we do. So exact, I’m wondering if you are my wife. 🤨 She’s never on Reddit but she or I could have written this.
I learned it from a friend who had kids a couple years before me, so it’s possible there’s some expert on “tricky adults” out there and we’re all working out of the same playbook.
I learned it from my wife. I’ll try to give her less credit for her ideas from now on. That should be fine.
> For us, the ultimate contrast to a tricky adult is a mom with kids. If we get separated, look for a mom with kids and ask for help. Honestly, in an emergency situation going up to anyone they feel comfortable going up to is probably the best bet. The vast majority of people are good, and if the kid is choosing who to approach they are most likely going to get someone who is not a bad person.
I saw recently that advice was not only an adult with kids but a black adult with kids. The statistics are heavily favored that a white male will commit child crimes so you’re safer with black families than white, statistically speaking.
> ultimate contrast to a tricky adult is a mom with kids. This sub always goes on and on about how much they hate being called baby sitters, or how much they hate getting dirty looks just because they are a guy at the park with their kids etc. Then here we are spreading the exact same fears. 99.9999% of men mean your children no harm and would go way out of their way to help. Statistically a mom with kids is exactly as safe as a random guy on the street.
What actual statistics support that statement? A dad with a kid vs a random guy on a street are very different for people with common sense.
It’s a true double standard though. As much as everyone likes to insist “Women can be predators too!!1!!” And find fringe cases to prove their point, the VAST MAJORITY of sexual predators are men. Don’t tell your kid to be just as afraid of a chihuahua as a pit bull because “they both *could* bite you.” I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings.
For instances where they get separated from us in the mall/park/somewhere, we use mom or dad with kids, police officer, or someone working in a store.
I get your thinking this is a double standard but people being offended are rarely perfectly logically consistent and that's ok Like if I told my wife to go lug a bunch of heavy shit she wouldn't want to. Yet if I said "I'll lift that because you can't, your tiny woman arms are pitiful and weak" she would be offended, even though it's technically true.
When I grew up, my mother told me and my sister about how she had been SA’d by both her grandfather and a stranger on the way home from school (separate instances) She told us from personal experience to be wary of both strangers and family. I had poor self esteem when I was a kid. I was chubby and I didn’t get along well with other kids. I remember during one of these talks saying something along the lines of, “Well I’m probably safe. People like that would only go after pretty girls”. It was the most upset I’ve ever seen my mom. But she grabbed my wrist and looked me in the eye. “You are NOT safe. There are men who rape babies. There are men who rape elderly people in their hospital beds.” I think that particular talk was given to me before we went on a Disney cruise. I would have been around 11 and I was going to have an unprecedented amount of free time/unsupervised time on the ship. I think it’s important not to sugar-coat it. It might be upsetting to see her afraid. But better to be afraid than dumb and complacent.
[удалено]
It pains me so much when people think that they don't have to be careful because they have boys.
Am boy, was SA. I never really "got over it" since boys are basically pressured to not talk about stuff. Society has a lot of work to do in a lot of ways.
I was very explicit with my kids, specially my youngest when she revealed my ex did not do any significant education. I went by statistics, be very careful of men, but even women can be dangerous. Dad was safe, but not all dads are safe, and if dad got a brain tumour, or whatever even dad could turn unsafe. I taught her rules of thumb, but also to think. One of her school friends, another girl got a bit handsy with her, and she set boundaries up. As many have said better start education young about self care. I taught her to be careful of people, and even parked cars on the streets. I continuously see alerts for lost youth age 12 to 16 average. My now adult daughter always jokes with her friends how I never minced words.
Look up Protect Young Eyes on instagram, they have a lot of resources on these conversations and can be really helpful. They use phrases like “tricky people” instead of pedophile to help keep the conversation more digestible and easier to grasp. Perhaps searching that phrase will lead you to more kid friendly resources.
>I made absolutely sure to explain that this is why we have so many rules about strangers. Why focus on strangers when most abuse is done by family and people you know?
This, that's why "tricky people" I better than strange danger
agreed
As an SA victim myself I feel like I really hyper focused on this issue with my Daughter. She’s 4 years olds her mom and I have always told her that her privates are hers and no one is to be looking at them and definitely not touch them. We always used correct terminology instead of referencing her vagina as her “tutu” or something (using that example because my mom did that with my sister) reasoning on that being that we have told her to tell a trustworthy adult what if anything happens. Teacher or her parents at this point. This has led to one instance already while she was at school one of her classmates came into her stall and she looked at my daughters privates making her uncomfortable. My daughter was able to tell the teacher who handled the situation at school and both the teacher and my daughter were able to tell us what happened so we could come to a solution for this not to happen again. I know there’s stranger danger songs made toward kids on YouTube and other resources like that out there but the most important thing I would think is telling them yourself.
Completely different vibe, but just by the title I thought you were talking about explaining coyotes and wolves.
I was not. But I *assure* you, they’ve already gotten an education in the genius of Chuck Jones, Friz Freling, and Tex Avery.
I think a good concept to teach is that, nice does not mean good.
This is new territory for me so I’m all ears + have a son. But here’s a quick story. My friend watches my 1yo son along with her almost 3yo daughter. They were at a store sitting in a dual stroller and he grabbed her arm, which she didn’t like and responded by yelling “DONT TOUCH MY BODY!!!!”. My friend is proud she taught her that but she was not ready for that to happen in public to a 1yo 😆
I remember seeing something that talked about suspicious behaviors rather than people. Kids are generally wary of strangers but the fact is that kids are usually targeted by a trusted adult. A good practice is to teach your child about suspicious behaviors, such as an adult asking a child for help or to keep a secret. Assure them that no matter what they do, they will not get in trouble and if they let you know a stranger can not hurt them or the child. These are the common tactics abusers use
First and foremost I applaud you for having these conversations with your children, especially at a young age. Far to many parents wait too long, or because of political/religious reasons don't have these talks with their kids. I have 3 kids, 2 boys and a girl. We've had these discussions with them starting at around 4 or 5. I think the key to these discussions is not "dumming" them down, or trying to use scare tactics. We were very straight forward and factual in our discussions, not being overly graphic, but just talking honestly and candidly to them... kids, even that young, are a lot more perceptive and smart than a lot of people give them credit for. Another thing that I feel gets ignored in these conversations a LOT is talking about consent. Not just to the boys but the girls need to hear about it as well, even if in a slightly different manner. And back to a sidebar from my first statement, our school district and several others in our area announced that they're going to start including this topic into curriculum and omg the amount of ire from certain parts of the community is horrendous, even though they have the option to have their children opt out... it's unfortunate that these are discussions we need to have with our children, but someone needs to do it, and if you're not going to have these discussions with your kids, who better than a trained educator?
I started by teaching my kids consent and bodily autonomy from baby stage. We use proper names for genitals and are candid about sex ed. Most predators are known to the victim and employ grooming that relies on their ignorance. Education is protection. Now my daughter is 8 and begs to be a youtube star. I’ve had to explain why I don’t allow her and the danger, that not all people are good and some are evil. I said that there are people out there who specifically target kids and that it’s not safe. We talk about internet dangers and how she should never share real info.
Here's the rub: If your children get assaulted, it will 99% be from a person in a position of trust and familiarity. Of course you can "street proof" them, but the offenders are most likely going to be coaches, clergy, extended family... Not necessarily in that order... Odds are it won't be a rando on the street. Many offenders are not textbook "pedophiles". It's the feeling of power they get and the opportunity given. When your kids are older, they will most likely be assaulted by dates, team mates, co-workers, and acquaintances. It's why it's so important to teach consent - giving and getting. No one, not even mommy or daddy can touch you there if you don't want them to. You can't "spot a pedophile"
We use “Tricky people”. There are tricky people out there that may want kids to do thing they don’t want to do. A tricky adult will ask you to keep secrets and no adult should ever ask kids to keep secrets, especially from mom or dad..
Play-therapist might be a good option if you haven't considered it. Might help out with the other challenges you mentioned in your post? No harm in looking outside for help, that's just my opinion but you know your little one so I'll see myself out if this is an unwanted suggestion. Best of luck.
"Strong Kids, Safe Kids" from 1984... My mom was a nurse at we grew up with the "Safety Kids" and the likes. Oh wow. Looks like it's on YouTube. Hope it didn't age like milk. https://youtu.be/vDd9Gjo2J2E?si=9knpYWy_VtgBzAVX
I explained to my kids that The Predator is an extraterrestrial creature that's highly skilled in hunting and has advanced technology and weaponry. The Predator is known for its distinctive appearance, including its dreadlock-like appendages, mandibles, and camouflage abilities. It's often portrayed as a formidable and cunning adversary, stalking its prey with stealth and precision.
"Honey, if you're ever in the woods and you hear a kind of weird growl from up in the trees, or you think you see some kind of shimmery translucent figure moving around, or 3 red dots appear on your chest, you should run and don't look back."
kiki miu miu cartoon. Protect your body episode and underwear song. It's not my favorite, but it worked.
Unfortunately this is just something we, as parents, have to do ourselves. Every single time we go out in public, I've made sure my daughter knows to stay right next to me, either hold my hand or hold onto my pocket/belt, and to never talk to anyone she doesn't know. As they say, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, we have to be there as much as we can and when we're not able to be with our children, we have to make sure that we've imparted enough knowledge and discipline and awareness onto them that they know what to do.
A lot of good age appropriate information linked below for you. They have lesson plans, worksheets, video series, etc. that can help reinforce safe behaviors you want to teach your kids. It’s evidenced based materials from a great organization. https://www.missingkids.org/education/kidsmartz https://www.missingkids.org/netsmartz/home
This is one of the richest towns in Massachusetts... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcboston.com/news/local/lexington-family-feels-unsafe-after-masked-man-allegedly-tried-to-grab-9-year-old-girl/3309244/%3famp=1
Never heard of it. /s
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2ntVdx9SOD4
Stranger Danger is not nearly as important as knowing they can come to you about anything and trust you completely. Make sure they can tell you anything and you will believe them no matter what anyone else tells them. Because the sad truth is statistically speaking it's not gonna be some stranger in a van, it's gonna be someone close to you or your child. Teaching them to recognize grooming behaviour is just as important as being careful around strangers.
My county has a children’s advocacy center that has a body safety curriculum, as well as resources for parents to talk about consent, safe touches, etc. https://www.cac-kent.org/resources/for-caregivers/
Good on you for dealing with this head-on. I don’t have specific recommendations, but Feather Berkhower teaches a course on this sort of thing, that specifically focuses on body safety. She got into everything from who can be an issue, the need for trust (and the dangers of trust), and how to talk to your kids about it. It’s at the same time one of the worst and best parenting events I’ve ever been to. You might look her up and see if she provides any resources on the subject.
Believe it or not... South Park. Crazy I know, but they have a few episodes that deal with matters like child abduction (title: Child abduction is not funny), one about molesters (Cartman joins Nambla), and frankly a ton of episodes that help put some of the darker aspects of our world into a humorous context. May help to introduce them to the show with some more tame episodes like the "shit" one (also helps kinda get them used to bad words and not make a huge deal of it esp watching with you and you can put things into perspective). Ive watched with my oldest since she was 7. I started watching SP when I was 9 or 10 myself, when they only had 2 seaons, many eons ago. Not every episode, mind you, I know the show well and skip a bunch for her that are too sexual or inappropriate. We've had a talk too that if she goes around repeating the stuff she hears on the show or tells anyone that we let her watch sometimes, she loses that privilege. So far, it's been going great. It's a nice treat to watch together. Lots of interesting discussion and we can rationalize some of the more absurd things. Let me know if you want suggestions, then you can watch first and vet them to see if you feel it's worth it for you to watch together.
When I was five, my mom said nobody is allowed to touch my underwear. It's my secret. And I need to tell her if anyone wanted to see or touch my underwear...
Why should we be vigilant about it? Why are you stressing so much about such a rare occurrence? The odds of pedophiles messing with your kids is not worth the effort of trying to explain pedophilia to a 7 year old. Just live bruv.
Huh. That’s an interesting question. So I’ll answer it. The brother of one of my nearest and dearest is going to a federal prison because he was caught in possession of and dealing of child pornography. It was a long-term sting, so the evidence is longstanding and incontrovertible. This person has spent time with both of my girls and was considered a safe and trusted person. I have no direct reason to suspect he physically assaulted my daughters or his own niece or nephews, but we were all caught by surprise. So, apparently not that fucking rare after all.
Yeah, you just gave me an absurd anecdotal example. What you described is really fucking rare. Look at the data and the statistics. Don’t project your fear of pedos onto your kids.