>Any counter arguments to the huge child free movements out there?
They're not huge, they just seem that way because you're deliberately finding them and reading them. If I spent time looking I could convince myself there's a giant movement of people who are very angry about any matter.
You don't need a counter argument as what they think is nothing to do with you.
Stop engaging with them and pay them no mind
I think the thing with a forum style site as well as we're one person reading the inputs of what may feel like a lot but in the big picture can still be an incredibly small group, especially when you consider this is an international site.
For example a sub of 5k people is a pretty small one overall, but if each member posted only once a year the sub could have ~13-14 unique posts a day. At a casual glance you'd consider that a pretty active sub, but when you take a step back and think about it it's 0.000000489% of the people on Reddit based on their reported 2023 user count.
In comparison I used to mod /r/calligraphy which usually had in the ballpark of ~300k members.
Emphasis on that last bit - the algorithm will keep giving you negative stuff if you hate click on it once. Every sub has like three to four other subs in a similarity cluster and if you block one, Reddit will just serve you from the others.
Yeah the algorithm can be weirdly aggressive sometimes and subs I'm shown can vary wildly from day to day. On the positive notes of having children, I dunno, my toddler shouts dad at me sometimes which is nice lmao. Jokes aside I love my kid more than anything and I'd be lost without that little fool running about.
This can also occur in groups that appear to be supportive of the named sub too!
Join a sub like r/marriage and you will just be inundated with unhappy marriages because everyone one seeking it out are not happy. It’s like sitting in a doctor’s office and saying “everyone I see is sick, everyone must be sick.”
Leaving those groups has made my life better simply by realizing I’m not reinforcing those specific thoughts all the time.
I'll be the first one to raise alarm about the dangerous and addictive apps be it tik tok or the horrendous free to play games, and too few of them read enough and sufficiently. But I also just had a day teaching my 7th grade about foreign politics and successfully making them engage in a roleplay to show them the fundamentals about power politics. Dopamine addiction is a serious problem, but kids are inherently curious beings.
Same idea as to why the bulk of reviews for places or things are usually very good or very bad. People often only leave reviews when they've had an extreme experience.
I went through /r/stepparents one time and found so many unhappy people there. People who are angry they have step-kids. People who refuse to care for their step-kids. People who are mad because their SO won't send the step-kid off to their ex for the summer and they are going to be stuck with them. A lot of really toxic subs out there.
I have no issue with people who don’t want children and understand there are valid reasons. The people on childfree communities always seem to have a chip on their shoulder and other anger issues. They’re a vocal minority, you’re going to their hive, and tricking yourself into thinking it’s representative of a common sentiment. Thats not unique to childfree subs, so many comment sections become toxic dumping grounds for maladaptive thinking.
As a medium step, seek out positive communities or go as far as to unplug and realize how much less nastiness you hear because people have to actually function in society.
There's a world of difference between not wanting kids and being anti kids.
Plenty of people don't have kids and are cool about it. Luis of great aunts and uncles for example.
But then you get those people who treat kids like an unwanted breed of dog and they can't fathom why they should be allowed to exist.
Those people? Spend a lot of time on Reddit from what I can tell.
I don’t disagree with you. Coming online to say you hate kids and can’t handle seeing them in public, hate that other people have them… Go to therapy lol
There is a difference between saying you don't want kids and saying that no one should have kids. The child free subs are basically the latter I think.
In the past:
Person; \[says crazy thing to people he knows\]
Other people: oookaaaaaaaaay. \[walks away\]
Person: Oh, maybe I'll keep my thoughts more to myself.
---------------------
Age of the internet:
Person: \[says crazy thing, broadcast to millions of people\]
Teeny Tiny percentage of those millions: RIGHT ON!
Person: I found my people! And there are so many of them! They must be a majority of everyone! \[continues in their echo chamber\]
> You don't need a counter argument as what they think is nothing to do with you.
There's a great quote I saw once and had to write it down. "Just because someone says something does not mean it is worthy of refutation." - Mark Rippetoe. I think it's a solid philosophy that I admittedly struggle with.
I will also say people who take the step from "I don't like X" to "You shouldn't do X" to "you're a bad person if you do X" are a very odd lot and lose a ton of credibility as they frequently can't come up with any good reasons X is harmful.
>"Just because someone says something does not mean it is worthy of refutation." - Mark Rippetoe
This should be plastered on every single loading screen on the internet. I love it. There seems to be this pervasive idea on social media especially that not having a good refutation to some stupid shit some bad actor says means what they say is good and valid. No, it's just stupid beyond comprehension and just because I can't break down a lie doesn't magically make it valid.
This, lots of communities online are a lot more niche than people think they are. IRL ideologies can be very different. Plus the world has so much noise, it’s a waste of cognitive bandwidth to worry about things like this.
Right, I mean if they were even a significant fraction of people then the world populations would be crashing, but as that is not the case it would seem the majority of people end up having children.
Yeah, those subs are toxic sesspools anyway. I’m one and done, but I stay far away from them. Their primary purpose is reassuring parents who who deep down fear they made a mistake, that not only did they not make a mistake, but others made the wrong decision.
Do yourself a favor and stay out of those spaces! Reddit can be a very negative space and the childfree subs are particularly so.
It's fine to not want children- but it's a bit weird for someone who isn't interested in having kids to dedicate so much of their time and energy to posting about how awful they are. (Like Red PIlled Men constantly going on about how awful women are)
If you don't want kids great! But don't make it your whole personality. Not liking something isn't a great thing to base your personality on.
Good luck with your new baby! I'm sure he'll be adorable!
I think there is a chunk who do actually want kids but are so fearful/unprepared/don't have the resources and so just like anything else with humans - they lash out at those who have worked past those issues.
That’s what I don’t get about this. I don’t have an ev, because it doesn’t work for my life choices. I don’t join an anti ev sub and post about how they suck etc.
Man, all of this and then some more. It’s like looking on Yelp for coherent thoughts, but with a ton more emotion and life impact. Negative comments always seem to trump positive ones.
People genuinely happy with their lives and kids are rarely posting about it because it feels like boasting. People unhappy are sometimes looking for validation or just to vent, but it’s certainly lopsided.
That's not the whole story.
The cost of living crisis, and several other crises in this decade, have made it a little more difficult to raise and afford kids. The government and societal help is reduced so people feel it's harder.
>have made it a little more difficult to raise and afford kids
Not to spam the thread with the same comment, but I think it’s really important to correct this misconception. Birth rates are lowest among the wealthiest people, and this is a trend that exists globally.
>The government and societal help is reduced
Again, this just doesn’t hold up to observation. Countries known for expansive social safety nets have very low birth rates.
I would argue that given the constant declining birthrates and growing number of people not wanting kids, that's not exactly true.
It's hard to blame them. It's getting financially harder to make it. Life is a struggle for a lot of people. I'm very blessed, but I see with my own eyes how fucked it is for people with less good fortune.
A loud depressed and socially deficit one. If someone doesn't want kids, no skin off my back, but these people make it their whole being. It just seems like a giant circle jerk to justify their decisions.
Exactly. It's one thing to be child-free due to the absence of having kids. Belonging specifically to a child-free community, in my opinion, is a big bright flashing sign that someone is unwell.
>don’t have kids unless you’re 100% sure
You are never 100% sure so people who say this are just saying don't have kids.
>there are zero cons to not having them
This is subjective and I think it's false. My kids have given me a lot that I wouldn't have had without them
>we only have the cause of society pressure
No we don't
>they ruin your life
No they don't, how would a child free community know this
>they don’t visit you when they are old….
They may not, but also, they may.
>They could be born with lifelong disabilities…
They also could not. And if they did it also isn't the end of the world. They'll still love you and you'll still love them
>they drain your money, time and freedom
Well yes they do but what would you consider a better way to spend your money, time, and freedom?
Just to counter some of those thoughts. I'm with everyone else though, you can't stare at the sun and then turn around and ask why you can't see. Stop browsing these subreddits
It’s odd that people would ever say children could be born with a disability as a reason to not have kids, the CDC says ~4% of children are born with a disability. Currently over 8% of American adults are millionaires. Would anyone say you should have kids because they could become a millionaire one day?
I think OP is just dealing with anxiety and is pouring that nervous energy into the childfree sub. Which seems odd to me, since they already have a kid. Bizarre post.....
That 8% cannot be true. I mean, it can, but I'm not going to do the research and it seems super high to me haha. But I wholeheartedly agree that worrying something may go wrong is no reason to not have a child. That's a defeatist attitude and doesn't help anyone.
I believe millionaire in this context just means their net worth is over $1 million, which is really not a super lot nowadays (considering most of their net worth is usually their actual house and retirement savings).
Statistically it's true. There are about 24 million millionaires in the US out of a population of 330 million.
But what does being a millionaire even mean nowadays?
If you bought a decent house 20+ years ago in a good suburb of a major coastal city area, then congrats, you're probably a millionaire by now.
Or if you stuck $5000/yr into your retirement fund for each of the last 40 years and invested it reasonably, then congrats, you're a millionaire.
>“Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?”
>“Supposing it didn’t,” said Pooh after careful thought.
>Piglet was comforted by this.
>When was the world so negative about having children?
It isn't
>Why do I feel that I’ve made a massive mistake?
This is a normal adult feeling that you're making exponentially worse by seeking out people that are reinforcing your doubt
>Does anyone else feel this way?
Sometimes I wonder what life would've been like if I hadn't had kids, but never because of someone trying to convince other people that they're right and my choice was wrong.
>Any counter arguments to the huge child free movements out there?
No, don't engage these people, especially not online.
You're making this problem for yourself by engaging with this stuff, it sounds like it's time for an extended Internet break, and if that's not feasible it's time to start blocking stuff.
anytime I wonder about life without kids, I immediately get crazy sad and mopey.
I can't even do the thought experiment of "what if I went back in time and re-lived my life knowing everything I know now," becuase I can't be sure I would replicate my specific children again - and that thought makes me sad.
> I can't even do the thought experiment of "what if I went back in time and re-lived my life knowing everything I know now,"
I can go back to December 2020 because both kids would've been born and conceived and I'd have been able to cash in on Dogecoin and GameStop, but otherwise I never get very far into my "wondering".
I have similar problems with that thought experiment, my oldest asked me if I wish I could go back in time and buy all these expensive pokemon cards before they were worth anything.
She said that since I wouldn't have ever known my kids, I wouldn't be sad about never meeting them. I love my kids too much and have a good life, I wouldn't want to risk all that.
It's why I was able to come to peace with an ADHD diagnosis in my 40s pretty easily. Sure, I wonder what could have been, but what I've got right now is more than I could have dreamed when I was in high school.
>She said that since I wouldn't have ever known my kids, I wouldn't be sad about never meeting them
Defeats the whole purpose, if you don't know everything you know now you'd just groundhog day that shit and be back in the same boat.
What is it with kids and their inability to comprehend extreme and completely illogical hypothetical scenarios with no rational boundaries?
When things at the house get hectic and the kids are being wild, I wish I had some time alone. Then they go on a sleepover and not even an hour into it, I wish they were back causing chaos.
My son is only just about to be six months, but the first time I left him with my mum overnight I genuinely didn’t know what to do with myself. Built myself up for the amazing night sleep I was gonna have and ended up awake half the night as the only thing I could think about was my son.
I'm in kind of the opposite boat? I'm a guy in his 40s who is about to be engaged to a lovely lady with a 9 yr old. So I will get the experience of being a dad but I've also lived 2 decades of my adult life without kids. So then I wonder what life would've been like if I had them. Would I have made the same career decisions and taken the same risks and would I be poorer if I hadn't?
It’s fine if people don’t want to have kids but the people on r/childfree are weirdos. Just don’t have kids… the end. How is it something anyone needs to talk about all the time?
It really is. To be fair, I think that sub, and many of it's followers started out as a means to cope and support each other having to deal with being pressured into having kids by family, friends, and society in general. But for every "my mom won't quit asking when I'm giving her grandbabies!" thread, there are 10 "OMG a child was existing near me for a brief time," or "my sister wants to bring her crotchgoblins to my WEDDING!!" The wedding rants irk me the most. A wedding is supposed to be a celebration of love and family, not a fucking queen-for-a-day celebration of the narcissistic bride, which is what it seems to have evolved into in the past 20 years.
That sub should really be renamed /r/childhate
It’s very odd. I don’t spend any time thinking or talking about things I don’t ever want to do. So the whole child free subreddits and groups are just so weird to me. I think it’s mostly people who see funny/relatable parenting memes and TikTok’s/reels and feel left out so they make “child free” ones. Like yes I joke about how hard and expensive it is to have kids but that doesn’t mean I hate it.
Like yea I day dream about all the free time I used to have and how I could stay up late and sleep in but not being able to do that right now certainly isn’t the end of my life lol.
Somehow they made NOT having kids their entire personality, lol.
Imagine a cat person making the fact that they "don't have dogs" their entire personality.
Just a cat person forum where they hate on dogs all day. It's kinda silly when you frame it like that. Just a forum to get together and feel superior and complain about all the dog people in the world, and how they are so thankful they don't have dogs, and they can't believe someone would own a dog.
It's likely people with religious trauma or with relatives that are very pushy about having kids. There are a few older folks at work that like to tell the younger people (women generally) that they need to find a man and have kids before they turn 30 and it's "too late". I roast them about how creepy it is and the topic no longer comes up. Those subs are echo chambers that just amplify the negativity.
It's in the same breed as the old fedora atheists on Reddit. Maybe they have some good points, but boy is it strange that hating children takes up such a large space in their head. And it's even weirder when the few you know in real life are, like, Disney Adults (no hate on that generally, but the juxtaposition is wild)
The number of Disney adults who complain about there being children in the parks is just utterly bizarre to me. I do not understand how you advocate to ban children from a Disney park. Like it does not even compute at all to me.
I'm not into pro-sports, but it's everywhere, and unavoidable. People constantly talk about it... strangers will try to make smalltalk with me about it, public money is spent on stadiums... sheesh... I should make not-liking pro-sports my entire personality.
Easily one of the more toxic subs I’ve ever visited. The most miserable and pathetic people for the most part. Clearly they feel the need to justify their decision with constant whining and diatribes.
Just abandon all forms of social media that deal in negativity.
I’m glad people are anti-kids. It’s good that people don’t have kids that don’t want to have kids. I feel it used to be forced on everyone to have 2-3 kids. Now it’s normal to just…not.
Here's a dadditide you should embrace:
It's happening. Time to make the best of it.
You're going to have this kid. Doesn't matter if it was a perfect decision, this is what's happening. So you can lean hard into the good stuff or the bad stuff. I try to minimize the bad... just shrug your shoulders and move on. Then take extra time on the good moments.
As for the people celebrating a kid free lifestyle? Pathetic. Imagine making your lifestyle about NOT doing something! If you want to join my marathon-free lifestyle feel free too. We can talk about how our legs aren't sore and we didn't waste money on running gear. What a joke.
When did the world get anti-kid? It didn't! Find your village. I get to walk my kid to school every morning with a couple other dad's and their kids. Yesterday one of our neighbors had to deal with something and I came home to find their kids in our backyard with mine. The other weekend another dad and I joined forces to create sand pits for the kids. We're going to the local splash pad this weekend, story time at the library, soccer practice, dance class... there's waaaay more stuff for young families today than there ever has been. But you got to put yourself in the right spots. Spend your time at the library? The world LOVES kids. Spend your time at the local symphony? The world hates kids.
... and my favorite... Spend your time at the art museum and the world hates kids but I don't care because my kid loves art and she told me she wants to pick out a famous painting and try to draw it back home.
Get off those toxic subs and join us here. I don't care if you are female. Moms are just lady-dads anyway, your people are HERE not there.
True, and to be fair to them, they are pushing back against a lot of societal pressures to have children and healthcare providers who prioritize future husbands’ wishes over women’s bodily autonomy. Everyone could just chill out a bit and respect other’s choices.
Kind of.
Shocking behaviour and negativity sometimes drives clicks, especially content that usually we wouldn't seek out but feel compelled to rage click and comment on.
It's the new online economy of engagement and it sucks.
Block the haters.
I love my kid more than I ever knew I would. Yes it's tough, yes it can hinder some of your choices, but eventually you'll be able to do things again and share the feeling of the first times with your kid. Simple things will blow their mind, things we take for granted.
They tend to keep you honest of the simplicity of life. Don't lose focus.
Daddit is here for you. We don't hate or discriminate. I've been apart of this community for at least 6+ months and it's filled with compassion and empathy for all ages of fathers and mothers too!
People who choose to be child free experience a lot of negativity and judgment, believe it or not. I think you are seeing a lot of (mostly deserved) defensiveness and anger boiling over the top.
In my opinion, regardless of how you feel, no one can actually be 100% certain that they want a kid before even seeing the kid or getting to know them. PLENTY of people are 100% all in on kids and end up miserable, and PLENTY of people (myself included) had some doubts and reservations and end up loving it. Life is not black and white.
It might be hard, but think about this whole new person you're going to get to know and be forever close with. Who knows who they'll turn out to be? For me that's the exciting part.
-Currently in the thick of it dadding a 2yo and 5mo.
I feel like you may have fallen victim to confirmation bias. If you go to subs that are against having (multiple) children you’ll find a lot of arguments against multiples. If you are on subs that are for it you’ll find arguments for it. Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer as it’s a matter of what is right for you personally.
Any argument for money, time etc other resources could be turned around by stating it differently. I like to look at it as investing my time and money where it matters to me. Would I rather spend my money on a nicer TV or on toys/education/food for a little human? Same for time. It’s a matter of perspective mostly imo.
Full disclosure. I’m a regretful parent and occasionally spend time in those subs.
Having children inevitably requires sacrifices. Sacrifices that you have no choice to not make once you have them. Most people will tell you it’s worth it. Regretful people will tell you it wasn’t. That’s the difference.
FWIW, it’s actually a fairly good community (as opposed to childree). Most people there either have medical conditions and have trouble taking care of their kids, or have kids with mental of physical disability, and it’s the only space where they can vent without being called monsters. A lot of them had kids in extremely abusive relationships. Many of them were recently forced to have kids by the state due to restrictive abortion laws. Some have PTSD from very traumatic births.
I myself had a child at a time when it was crucial for me to take care of my health, and I simply couldn’t do that with a newborn. I probably lost a decade or two of my lifespan and almost died in a hospital, which wouldn’t have happened if I could sleep 8 hours a day and have time to monitor my vitals.
You also have to understand that the majority of people on it love and take care good of their children, but they hate their life. There is a difference.
It’s easy to blame those people when you have a typical parenting experience. If you’re on it, the only way to engage with that is to empathize while realizing that their experience is different from yours. If their regret is projecting onto your own experiences, it’s probably time to leave.
Children require a lot of sacrifices, and many people are not interested in making them. However society still provides a lot of pressure to have kids. The child free stuff is push back against that(think the obnoxious atheists that are almost universally ex devoutly religious people).
A lot of it is people with bad childhoods, another thing is people who have sour grapes since they can’t afford kids and have he lifestyle they want.
Do kids come with challenges? Yes. We've dealt with behavioural stuff, financial difficulties, upsetting emotional times, feelings of inadequacy as parents, lack of sleep, strains on our relationship, schoolyard drama, teenage hormonal strops.
Would I give up one microsecond of it? Fuck no.
Other people might be happier without kids, and I hope they enjoy their lives. I don't see any need to tell them they're doing it wrong, and they shouldn't feel superior to people who do have kids.
My boys have brought so much love, pride, joy and purpose into my life. We also have a 10-year gap between ours, which has resulted in some interesting situations :-) Wishing you all the best with the new addition!
The crazy child-free people don't really exist outside the internet. 99% of people don't care if you chose to have kids or if they chose to have kids.
Just like any other group, they gather in like-minded closed internet discussion-boards and whip each other up into a frenzy...... and then wake up, go to work, talk to their friends/family that have kids, and be a normal person.
I appreciate this post as I think it will allow for some great discussion. I don't know how many people there are that don't want kids vs those that do. I do believe that the crowd that don't want kids have been a lot more vocal about it being okay that they don't have or want children. Which it is okay. It is fine to not have or want children.
There's a lot of societal and external pressure to have children if you find a partner, and while I think most of us dad's here were fine with that, the pressure can be a lot for those that aren't fine with it. Especially for women who will be growing and birthing the child. Because having a child changes everything. It changes their bodies during, after, and beyond. My wife will tell you that her hips have never been the same after two children.
There are no right or wrong ways to live your life.
Childfree subs: I THINK YOURE MAKING A MISTAKE
Myself: I don’t think about you at all.
———-
Having kids is a big decision. It’s difficult, expensive, rewarding, glorious, messy, unrewarding, and messy.
It’s a microcosm of all of life’s ups and downs. Not everyone should be a parent, and no one is ever 100% ready to be a parent, but a huge amount of people find it one of the most worthwhile endeavors we can do (me included).
Unplug from negative spaces.
The baby is coming and you will rise to the occasion.
Live life on your terms. These crazy pocket computers are amazing but they’ll also pipe negativity right into your frontal lobe. Our happiness depends on the quality of our thoughts, so focus on engaging in spaces that enhance and boost your life path instead of things that only want you to find misery.
Get off social media. The combination of your pregnancy hormones and the internet is nothing but trouble.
Kids are great. You're going to have a blast. Enjoy it.
Get off of social media and stop watching those videos so they get out of your recommended stuff. While the number of people not having kids is growing, it’s not actually a movement or some sort of revolution.
It’s a niche people are making content in because they can and I would bet that a large number of those individuals aren’t 100% on their current choices but they are forced in to it for one reason or another.
I was indifferent about having kids but now that I have them and can weigh the difference in both worlds I would choose having kids over not 100/100 times.
It sounds like you are the one having doubts/stress/anxiety around this pregnancy. These people aren't seeking you out to force their lifestyle on you, but yet you are choosing to spend a significant amount of time doomscrolling their subreddits.
It's very normal to be scared and anxious. I'd suggest majorly or entirely cutting off these subs from your media consumption, and instead investing supportive places where you can look for advice and vent your fears.
I love being a dad, this is an understatement. With the aforementioned, it is incredibly difficult for most right now to be able to afford the kind of life they imagine they’d need/want for them and their kid(s) to be happy. I often feel terrible that I can’t afford vacations, new clothes for myself, can’t afford replacing/repairing items in the home that direly need it…but is not a danger to anyone soooo priorities are keeping kiddo fed and clothed.
It may not be so simple as anti child as it is more anti current circumstances.
People are scared, they consume much mainstream media and even if they don’t, there’s plenty of first person content in areas all over the world showing hardships and conflicts.
The best you can do is focus on you and your family and be kind and forgiving to others deep in the fear.
You’re gonna be ok.
If you walked out your front door and were attacked by a swarm of bees every day, you’d stop going out the front door and start to use the back door.
Stop walking out the front door. Those people can think and feel any way they want but you have a choice to continue to listen to them. Just stop. Stop being on those subs. Stop being on social media that brings you that crap. I never see or hear that stuff. I’ve tailored my social media to people who are in my similar situation and want to be.
It really is simple. Stop making it hard on yourself. Eliminate this influence from your daily life
I had massive post-partum anxiety after my son was born. I was obsessed with reading about milestones, "When does it get better?" threads, etc on new parent forums etc. I realized I was getting so "in my head" that I wasn't "enjoying the chaos". So much of what goes on can be a matter of perspective. I removed myself from those groups, and would laugh when there would be a blowout and make jokes about the lack of sleep and exhaustion but I always said "it's worth it!" and days passed by and now it's been nearly 6 months and I don't even entertain those voices anymore. So follow the advice of others and let yourself lean into the positive spaces and voices.
These movements are like vegans / there aren’t that many of them, but it seems like more because they all evangelize it to anyone who will listen. Their choice is the right one - for them, not for everyone else.
Anyone who doesn’t have anxiety going into having a child doesn’t understand how big of a deal it is, or is delusional, IMHO. When you already have anxiety though, it’s real easy to grab onto anything around to put a face on it. If I were to guess, that is what you are doing here.
Having a second with a 10 year old in the mix is easier in some ways, vs having them closer together. The older one can help in many ways, getting things, watching the baby for a few minutes while you shower or cook, wait in line for something, etc. At that age, they can also be a lot more self sufficient, getting themselves dressed, feeding themselves, etc.
The first year is tough. No matter what else is in play, the first year is tough because baby needs time and attention. It’s worth it to you though, because you did choose to have another. You already know that much.
It wasn’t a mistake. It was a choice. You knew exactly what you were signing up for, and still chose it. What you are dealing with now is basically buyer’s remorse. There will be tough times ahead as a result of your choice, and also amazing times. Embrace it, and enjoy the ride.
Leave these groups and live your life. Stay off social media. You have anxiety because you’re immersing yourself in negativity. Get off your phone and live your life. It may have happened fast, but there’s still good that comes of it. You are creating another extension of you and your SO. The thing is, life is about sacrifice. And you’re gonna have to sacrifice some things in order to be a parent. But I’m sure you learned that after your first. Time is not yours anymore, so just go with the flow of life anyway. Make the best of everything. Have joy in watching your children grow up to discover their own independence. And enjoy watching them learn the world. There is something mesmerizing about just watching even my child pick at dandelions and daisy’s in my yard. I get to watch this little human I created with my wife, that we love more than any type of love we’ve known. And it’s those moments that mean more to me than anything else. Bringing a second child into the mix is gonna be chaos, and I’m sure it will be the same for me and my wife. But I’ve learned that the chaos for you is their childhood/hapiness. It might be hectic running 15 minutes late and you’re supposed to be out the door. And you’ll remember that chaos. But they will remember that they were having a good time playing with toys or learning to get dressed. Not that mom and dad were running late.
Honestly - almost every regretful parenting post I’ve read has had way more to do with the partner , especially those who were “convinced” to have children.
I had children to put good people in the world, to raise them to be empathetic world shakers and leave their mark. If at the end of the day I ruin that relationship and they don’t visit when I’m old - then that is my mistake and their right.
It seems that way because you’re going to spaces where those stances are rewarded and reinforced. It’s sort of like going to an Apple forum to get views on Microsoft, or over to the anti car subreddits to see if you should get a Honda.
The rest of the world doesn’t share those views. This is a case of you’re looking at very specific forums for those folks and they are sharing their views without any counterpoints. Just remove yourself from them and stop seeking them out because they do not apply to your situation at all. They are just echo chambers for their ideas
People will go to great lengths to validate their life decisions, and they do so loudly. Hell, people do it with brands they like to purchase.
Make the decision that's right for you and stop letting the vocal minority echo chambers influence your choices.
I have to talk about this fucking r/regretfulparents sub.
In my opinion, it's the worst sub here. It isn't a place for parents to vent frustration or get it out of their system. It's a place where people congregate to blame their children as the reason their lives are where they are. I have never in my entire time here seen a sub so needlessly and relentlessly toxic.
You need to stop searching out the hate
I mean... it is a place for people to vent. Not everyone is fit to be a parent and unfortunately some people only find that out when it's too late. Therefore they are regretful. I doubt there's many places on the internet where you can vent about those regrets without getting some slack thrown your way.
It's incredibly sad and a very miserable place but these people probably don't have any other outlets.
I think a lot of the DINK (Dual Income No Kids) movement is compensating for what they don't have.
They're trying to justify their decision and are just as insecure with it as everyone else.
Be happy with your choices and try to have no regrets.
Here’s my counter argument - stop reading/following any child-free groups. These people have made their choice and feel they need to justify it, good for them it’s their life & choice.
Personally I find being a dad to be the most joyous and fulfilling thing I’ve done in a life full of adventures, travel, partying & experiences. That was reinforced by the arrival of my second.
Pregnancy is an uncertain time and it’s natural to be a bit apprehensive but you’re definitely compounding it by listening to people who have no idea what they’re talking about.
I think it's natural to feel a little apprehension or anxiousness, and you definitely hit the nail on the head with all the child-free communities that exist online, but I would take those with a grain of salt. What I noticed from these communities (and many others) is it's just an arena for these people to effectively validate one another without really knowing what it's like on the other side of the fence, so speaking from a place of ignorance usually.
Valid points do exist, we all know it's not cheap and often times it's not easy to raise kids. But I wonder what tune these same folks will be singing when they grow old and then end up having nobody except maybe their partner/spouse around in their twilight years. I think I'm willing to trade a little time and effort earlier in life to make the latter half more enjoyable. We do that with retirement planning anyway right?
Please stop distracting yourself with the opinions of others. You have no way of knowing their core values or their mental state, their personal perceptions of the world do not need to influence yours.
Whether or not you regret having kids is entirely dependent on you and your outlook. Everyone feels down sometimes when having kids, kids are hard and you need to grow in the role. Having a positive outlook and a growth mentality will serve you well.
You will always need to be working to make things better, starting with you and working outward. Look at the struggles you are facing with curiosity, why is this happening and how can I change something to make this better should be a common thought. Keep growing and keep going.
I wrote this for me, but I guess you can read it too
Hey OP, mine two girls are 10 years apart as well! I’ve got a teenager and a threenager lol. It’s undeniably tough but I wouldn’t change a thing, and anytime I start thinking about how long
I’m “in it for”, how I’m missing out on things my child free friends get to do, etc, I just remind myself that if I’m young enough to be raising children then I’m young enough to continue living my life long after they’re out of the house/out of the need for daily care even.
Hang in there!
What you need to do is turn off the internet for a while. Caring that much about what a bunch of very online weirdos think about your life decisions is really not OK.
At my most pessimistic I always feel that without children I would just wallow in depression, wasting time and money on hedonistic, habituated addictions and behaviors that make me comfortable. At least having kids help to keep me grounded and “on the right track.”
At my most optimistic I feel a deep and powerful love for my children that cannot be replicated by anything else I’ve yet found. The joy and perspective they have provided me is immeasurable. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, and I’ve had my share of parenting-related depression, fatigue, and “second guessing.”
Everything will be alright. It will.
There's nothing wrong with being child free. I do think there's something wrong with being anti-natalist though. Those people just seem to have untreated depression the way they talk about life.
Love my two boys, can't imagine my world without them.
You don't need to seek out validation for your life choices. You're going to have a sweet little baby who loves you. Who cares what some sweaty people on reddit think?
In one way or another, most of their arguments resonate with us in some way. Those ways are \*usually\* the sides of us that are the most susceptible to influence and dark thoughts. Guilt, regret, anger, hate, fear of failure, economic worries, stress, panic. Those are the bad sides of us that healthy adults mostly manage to keep in check a majority of the time, but if we fuel them, they overshadow everything else and it doesn't matter how mentally healthy you are, you will be affected.
Now, you have just entered Daddit, the most wholesome, supportive subreddit that exists on this platform.
I didn't want children at first, but when the ex became pregnant, and wanted to keep it, I knew I had to step up. Wasn't easy, but it's the consequences of my own actions and I have to take responsibility for that. I absolutely love my little devils to death. It's mostly the situation I regret, the relationship and circumstances around their conception, not their existence.
You will find many people in here with lots of various circumstances and events that lead them here. Some wanted kids their entire lives, some had kids from a one night stand, some have kids with disabilities, some have kids that are experiencing bullying. Though we all have different backgrounds and thoughts about how to handle various situations, the one thing we can agree on is that you NEVER go into those child free-type subreddits. They are toxic, negative to the extreme, pessimistic, and down right hateful towards even the thought of having children. I wouldn't wish that place on my worst enemy.
You wanted kids, and to quote The Matrix: "You've already made the choice, now you have to understand it". Now the job for you is to do your best, and you already have a 10 year old which I would say is actually a good thing. Twins or kids of a very similar age (1-2 years of each other) is probably the most troublesome, but the older the other child is, the more independent they are, and the more they can help out with the baby. The baby will also have a great big brother/sister to look up to.
I can't tell you what the right decision is here. I don't know your relationship status, financial status, living situation, medical history, extended family and so on. Even if I did, I could only give you my opinion based on what I would do, not what would be right for you or right for the child.
1.) Mute those subs immediately. They have nothing to do with your reality.
2.) Talk 👏to 👏a 👏professional 👏!
Do not seek advice for something this serious on Reddit.
You are an adult. You must choose what sort of information you are going to consume.
The child free people are not right for you.
You are right for you. you are filling yourself with negative information and you need to start focusing on the positives. For yourself, and for the life of your baby.
Find better communities. My wife found a group for expecting mothers in our city who were all due in the same 2 month period, and it's been such an enriching and supportive experience for her.
Not only is she in contact with other mothers, it's other mothers who are in the exact same stage, going through the exact same issues, and finding solutions together, bouncing ideas off each other, organizing regular meetups, etc. If nothing else, it allows a space for "Is it just me..." and "Am I crazy..." type questions that can be difficult to field otherwise.
It's a loud minority that have made their entire personality being child-free. Just like anyone else that makes some part of their life their whole personality (strident vegans, Trump MAGA Republicans, gun nuts, crazy PETA people, etc.) you shouldn't take them seriously. They're emotionally invested in being right above all and aren't able to think clearly or logically about this central issue to their existence.
There are clearly pros and cons for having children. And it's fine to either have them or not have them based on your specific circumstances. Life isn't black and white. It's only human to wonder about the path not taken. But don't let it eat you up because of some fucking idiots on the internet.
Stop visiting those other subs. If you have a kid or kids what good will come from it? A bunch of random people complaint to no end. Waste of time and not healthy.
I think life with kids (especially young kids) is harder than without, but harder isn't the same as worse. I think it's normal to wonder what your life would be like without kids, or even to really enjoy little breaks from parenting. You're human and it's hard work.
Idk, I don't do some things I used to and I do things I didn't before. I love my kids (even if I don't like them all the time) and I wouldn't go back to being child free if I could (well, not for longer than like 48 hours).
For all the tantrums and inconvenience of it, I'm still blown away by the trust they have in me and the wonder I get to experience through them as the figure out the world. I'm really glad I can see reflections of myself in them because it helps me to use my childhood memories to understand them and in doing so I get to understand myself better.
Reddit subs and forums do not represent reality/society as a whole. There's a lot of negativity online. I was shit-scared about having a kid but it's been such a joy for me and my family. Screw what strangers and constantly depressed people think.
It may be the most difficult experience of your life but I guarantee it will also be the most rewarding, irrespective of what your child does , being a parent is a crucial part of your development as a human being , and we are very lucky to experience it.
There is no good time to have a kid imo. You’ll always want more and to be able to do better. I’m on the fence about a 2nd. We’re not poor or wealthy. I don’t know that I could even get our 2nd kid the same as we were able to our first. I want to have retirement, a newish car, a home, insurances, healthcare. With a second, something has got to give. I think I want my 1st born to have a sibling though. A forever friend, support, holiday, family member. We may just need to make the sacrifices on the luxury side. The world is going to be more complicated. I think a sibling would be better for on all angles. And it sucks to think about, at least from an American culture pov, but a second could help support myself and wife in old age. I’m aiming to be self sufficient with retirement, but a later start and not being able to have savings, retirement for myself and wife, and all the life expenses, it may become complicated. The world also needs more good guys if you will. I watch my nieces and nephews have something more than my only child. I think she deserves it too despite my own reservations. I could go on and on. It feels wrong on the money side, but everywhere else seems good I think.
There are a lot more happy families than happy child free parents. Just by the math, that's a fact. If you focus on a particular group of people on the internet, that group is going to seem much bigger than it really is.
Edit: but, if you want to balance it out a bit.. look at some of the posts from people who *want* kids and are learning how to cope with the fact that they couldn't. [https://www.reddit.com/r/IFchildfree/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IFchildfree/)
A subreddit can be loud but by now means does it mean it has any real life relevance. There are no child free movements of note.
Just stop engaging with those communities.
As a parent myself, I can while heartedly agree with most of the other posters, in that having a child, or children is not a mistake.
I have close friends who chose early on that they wouldn't have children, as they not only wanted to be child free, but they really didn't like kids.
Fast forward a few years after having my kids, and my friends now adore my children. They even admitted that their previous perception about having children was wrong, and that kids can be a gift.
In terms of children costing parents alot of money, time, and freedom, they do. But doesn't mean you'll be worse off than others who don't have kids. For example, my wife and I (with our kids being teenagers) have traveled more than our friends without children, and we have more in savings and retirement than them. Plus, we get to have those prideful moments when our children achieve things, and we have all of the memories we made with them throughout the years.
So I'd say ditch the parent free threads, start looking at this from a glass half full outlook, and begin looking forward to getting to know you child, and experiencing all of their firsts. Congrats!
Having kids has been the single most rewarding thing I’ve ever done & it’s not close.
Also, the most outspoken anti-kid trend young. The % that changes their mind in their 30s (after they’ve had plenty of ‘me-time’) is still pretty high.
Let me just say, my wife and I were married almost 10 years before we had our first. We traveled, we did fancy dinners, we did big friend get together. My life has never felt as full and loving as my life after my daughter was born. We travel less, we don't get fancy dinners often and friends are a rarer sight, but my kid brings soo much joy and happiness from the moment she wakes up all the way through exhausting bed time.
There are cons to being child free, you will never feel the love of a child, which is a huge con to me.
I think this is on par with very niche subs like r/fuckcars. The people who frequent that sub legitimately have their own language and slurs for car owners and wield a “holier than thou” egotistical attitude because they’re environmental and societal “activists”. Is the majority of the world vehemently against people who drive cars? I don’t think so. Social media is inherently a hive mind-ish echo chamber. When you search for specific groups, you’ll find them filled only with like minded individuals who refuse to entertain any other point of view. Most subs like that permanently ban anyone who opposes the viewpoints of the sub therefore making it even more of an echo chamber via censorship. Stay away from negative communities like that and worry about your own life and views. It’s all that matters in the long run.
Mom, they will need you more in their life than you need them at first.
Then in that first year, you will see them develop and love, and you will absolutely need them in your life.
Just give it time.
Oh, come on now. What I always tell myself is this: What else would I be doing at my age that would actually bring me more fulfillment?
At some point, for most humans, we want to do something bigger than ourselves.
I'm sure it's been said but just in case it hasn't: 2 people in my family died this past week, their kids were the ones mainly taking care of them or at least were around so they didn't spend their final months with strangers. Another elder in my family is super old and has been able to stay in her home....because her kids have been taking care of her for years (like helping with shit a couple times per week). I have twins and raising them is by far the hardest thing I've ever done. I've had regretful thoughts, but I know it'll be amazing in the long run. The lows are very low but the highs are very high, you got this
It is fine to have these feelings. It’s ok to have doubts. Parenting is hard. Society programmed us to believe children is some kind of gift that’s keeps on giving and makes your life fulfilling and rewarding, like nothing else. But while it’s true for some, it’s also true that it’s the most stressful, hard, tiresome and difficult thing you can go through. Validate your feelings and trust yourself to be strong, allow yourself to be confident. It’s gonna be hard, but you will make it. Don’t compare yourself to others, just be the best version of yourself.
“100% sure” should mean you’re 100% ready to dedicate yourself to your kid, not that you’re sure you want them. There are people who want kids but then zone out and are barely there when it’s harder than they think.
Most people I met who are child free had an unkind childhood and bad adults around them. They generalize their memes of parents around those adults.
Stay out of forums that are anti- whatever.
Any time you bring a group of people together because they don't like the thing they are discussing, it always devolves into negativity and bitterness. They are cesspools of misery.
Someone who is truly living their best life child-free aren't talking about being child-free. They are talking about video games or hiking or skydiving or whatever. The only people on those forums are already angry bitter people that just bring each other down.
Misery loves company. Period.
Doubt is a negative feeling, and when we have one negative feeling it makes it easy to latch onto other negative feelings thanks to confirmation bias. It's comforting, even if the overall theme is negative.
I don't know what it's like to be a parent to, say, someone with disabilities. But I can say that someone I know who has a son that has downs is one of the most positive people I know. I think there's something about the struggle or the difficulty that puts you at a fork in the road. You either fight it every step of the way, and in turn make yourself miserable, or you lean into the suck and find acceptance in it.
In short, the Serenity Prayer. You don't have to be religious to follow it. Take "God" out of it.
>Grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference
At a certain point, misery becomes a choice. These people are choosing to be miserable. That's their problem, not yours.
To quote The Count Of Monte Cristo: There is neither happiness nor misery in the world, there is only the comparison of one state to another. You must wish for death in order to feel total bliss. Until the day god deins to reveal the future to mankind, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words: wait and hope.
Let those losers be miserable.
Hey, so reading this kinda sets off some alarms in my head. Are you going to a therapist? And as everyone else is saying, a little break from social media might be good for you and your anxieties.
>I feel like they are the ‘right’ ones and I’ve somehow even deluded and brainwashed by the herd.
They are not right. They are doing what's for them, but anyone who will decry your choice to have a child is someone to ignore. Father of two and I enjoy spending time with my kids. They enjoy spending time with me (teenagers now). My wife and I have traveled with them since they were young. Having the mindset of "this may go sideways, but at least we'll have a story" helps.
Stop listening to them and get off that sub. It's only hurting your joy and you don't need that, OP.
I don't think I've ever been 100% sure about anything, including having my two beautiful kids! Personally I tend to trust more people who express their doubts about important decisions...
Leave those groups and join more supportive ones, look for support groups in your area, delivery preparation courses, etc.
>I just want to be happy and joyful and excited about new baby boy but I feel like the world is so anti kids these days, it’s sad to see.
Then just unsubscribe from that childfree sub and stop torturing yourself. They're entitled to their opinion but you don't have to share it.
Everyone's anxious in the lead up to a birth, and that's what's going through your head now. Just let nature do it's thing and make the best of it
As someone who is currently on the fence about having kids, when I hear these arguments I just ignore them. While many of the points are fundamentally valid they have become justifications of their choice simply by existing as statements.
To you and your decision, it doesn't matter at all how much I care about the probability of genetic abnormalities (still very small regardless of your life stage), or financial impact, or visiting when I'm old. The only thing that matters is how you feel regarding those points. The ONLY value these forums have is that they can identify specific issues that people feel are important in the decision process or as a justification. What is said about those issues in these spaces should be ignored as it will naturally flow towards the expected intent of that forum space. i.e child free subreddit will tend to support and justify their child free status. This is as expected as the subreddit for the LA Lakers tending towards supporting that team.
My wife and I are at a critical stage in our own process and it's been a difficult task to dig down and understand how we feel while identifying if a fear or concern is truly ours or if it's been inflicted upon us by the environment.
Your fear is natural, just make sure you are identifying the parts that are important to you so you can make your own choice. You are more likely to regret a choice if you let external pressure guide your outcome. Besides, unlike me, you have done this before, you know fairly well what it takes and what you are in for. Equally so, what you will get out of it. Trust yourself
Don't engage or even look at the childfree subreddit. Sure, I am sure there are plenty of reasonable people on there who simply don't want children and are looking for like-minded people. But, there are also people on there who are damn right horrible towards parents (especially mothers) and even children. Not sure if that's from a lack of love from their own childhood or just a damn lack of humanity and decency. The thing is, that minority of people are the loudest. You do you, focus on being the best parent you can be.
Surround yourself around more positive people (as cliche as that sounds) and join some actual parenting groups where people discuss everything from challenges to triumphs.
Wut? Have your kid and enjoy it brother. Child free people do their own thing and are weird for trying to force people to believe that their lifestyle choice is all enlightened and a better choice.
Unless you’re a shitty dad or honestly don’t think you can provide this baby a good upbringing then don’t sweat it and enjoy having a new baby.
I went down the anti-child rabbit hole a while back, and I understand how from the outside in, it can seem like a huge burden, among all the other reasons people have to be “anti kid”.
But, when I come home from work, my 5 month old gets his first glimpse of me, and gets a big smile and does his little excited wiggle, that moment alone makes all of the headache and stress worth it.
I want to raise my kids to help make the world better, and to help cause change in the things they see wrong. To be strong individuals with big hearts, that understand there is more to the world than just themselves.
Every argument, usually, has a counter argument. They claim we’re selfish for bringing kids in to the world as it is, I say I want my kids to help change the world. They say they’re a massive burden, or we only do it for our own selfish vanity. I say if it’s selfish, then I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice every ounce of myself for them, and the burden will be worth it when they go in to the world on their own the first time.
You have one child already that you’ve raised and love. Think back to those first months, and how big your heart felt that entire time, and remember that it will return.
I mean, you went into an echo chamber where you're only going to hear from people that agree. It's like going to r/atheism and being shocked at how anti-religious people are.
r/childfree has 1.5 million subs and r/parenting has 6.6 million. So they are definitely the minority. Loud for sure, but still a minority.
They do make real points. Kids are a massive financial drain and will eliminate your personal free time.
But you already went through it once so you should already be aware of the costs as well as the more intangible rewards that come with kids. It's that love for our kids and families that subs like that tend to ignore and brush off, but you can't really ignore it because it's what having kids is all about. In that regard they are being disingenuous.
Don’t worry, after a year or two you will realize what those child free people never will. That there is more to this life than just focusing on your self. One of the greatest satisfactions I have found in life so far is teaching my kids new things. I also have found I can relax and take life less seriously now that it’s not all about me.
Echo chambers are called that because they amplify sounds and make it seem like one sound is many. Remove yourself from the echo camber…
It’s also okay to feel excited and terrified at the same time, and you don’t need to feel guilty about negative thoughts that cross your mind from time to time. This is all part of processing this big change in life you have coming, and it’s okay to feel those things.
A lot of good advice here. I just want to also say that my children have given me so much more than I could have ever dreamed. The love I feel for them is unfathomable and when they came, they immediately became the best thing in my life. Barring mental illness, I don't see how a person could feel any other way.
Would love to see a follow up of childfree people in their later years 60s, 70s etc.
When you start aging and your friends and family start passing away, life slows down etc I imagine it would be a massively lonely experience.
Now you cant say that just because you have kids that they are going to come out perfect and want to be in your life but at least anecdotally most kids end up getting married and having kids of their own and want their parents in their life. Holidays are filled with people and food and gatherings and i'd imagine that's what i'd want when im older.
Dunno man, having all of your time and money and freedom to do what you want has got to be awesome, but its not like you dont get that time back when the kids are older.
Go to one estate sale of someone that passed away in a big old house full of trinkets and bullshit with random people picking through your leftover "stuff" will let you know what the end result of that kind of life leaves you.
Child free subs are so toxic, and full of people who think children have no place in society. People in those subs refer to us as in a derogatory manner as "breeders".
The common theme amongst many of these people is that they are either children themselves or adults who have the maturity of children. I wouldn't listen to anything they say.
Having kids is hard, it's truly life changing and some people might wish they could turn back their decision. But you'll never know just how much you can love something until you have a child. I would bet most people who feel regret and want to undo it eventually get to a point where they no longer feel like that.
Those child free people are some of the most toxic folks I’ve ever met. Their opinion on having a family is as valid as that of the turd I just flushed down. Only you know your situation. All of my kids were surprises. I wouldn’t change anything.
I have memories of my kids that are like highlights to my life. They outweigh any memory of vacations, things I bought, or free time I wasted.
Here’s one.
I took my son to his first hockey game when he was 2 years old. He was a maniac and it was just me and him, so I was a little nervous about keeping his attention and keeping him safe without my wife, but I also wanted to spoil him and just make an overall fun experience. He could talk, but not really have conversations. We were standing in line for popcorn and snacks and he was smiling at the other people in line and being silly. He turned to me and gave me the “pick me up” gesture, so I picked him up and put him on my hip.
He grabbed my neck and leaned back as if to get a better look at my face and sat there looking at me for a moment. The biggest smile I had ever seen grew across his face and he leaned in and hugged my neck and shoulders so tight with his little arms. He didn’t know how or when to say “I love you, dad” but he didn’t have to. That look and big hug he mustered said it all for him. I will never ever forget that moment in my life.
Dude stay out of those forums. The die is cast and those folks are kinda miserable anyway. Please don’t go to the internet to understand your life, even here.
>Any counter arguments to the huge child free movements out there?
I know they don't like to hear it but its true, they don't know what they're missing. The loudest voices of the child free movement want it to make it seem like they're some persecuted minority so they exaggerate everything. That's their prerogative and I'm not going to debate them because being a parent is just one part of me anyway. Even if I completely regretted having kids then they'd be right and my day to day would be the same anyway.
Even if they're right, what are you gonna do? Put the baby back?
My sister-in-law has teens and a toddler. In some ways I'm glad I had mine back to back but her older kids are so sweet and caring for their baby sibling that is really sweet to see as well. Plus no worry about getting two kids closer in age doubled booked in something like different soccer games across town.
I think you should stop worrying about what other people do with their lives or what they might think about yours. You don't need to make a counter argument there's no "correct" answer in how to live you life other than to do what *you* want.
I think there is an asymmetry to how parents and child-free people can talk to one another. This is because we know that there are people out there who are trying to be parents and can't; so we want to spare those feelings.
So when we talk about having children, we tend to focus on mundane inconveniences like lack of sleep, messy house, etc. We don't talk enough about the existential fulfillment (maybe "blessings" for believers?) of being a parent. But the truth, at least to me, is that the life of a 30+ child free person seems absolutely dreadful and pointless. Have you ever heard someone w/o children describe their vacation? It usually boils down to "we ate and drank someplace else for a change." So boring.
On a technical level, if we are talking about antinatalism, I don't agree with the supposition that life is more suffering than enjoyment. This is even true for those with lifelong disabilities. I worked with adults with ID for years, and they had fulfilling, enjoyable lives. The existence of people with lifelong disabilities isn't evidence that life is suffering, it's evidence that your bourgeois definition of a "well lived life" needs to be examined.
The world is selfish by nature, and parenting is one of the most selfless (and rewarding) endeavors a person can undertake. There’s nothing wrong with people to choose to not have children, but don’t you let them try and explain why YOU shouldn’t have kids. If you’re prepared to love, teach and support your child, then nothing else matters.
I’m of the belief that strong nuclear families are better for society than childless, single people.
I can see the consequences of not having children; as a lifestyle choice, as a movement and as a society. The first I understand. But no good can come from the latter two.
What arguments are they presenting? I'd happily debate even someone posing as a devil's advocate.
Other people's views on having children should be flushed down the toilet with a bad bowl movement, and a small toy that your first child "wanted to see what would happen with". Get out of your own head and start picking out room colors!
They’re clowns. So when they are sharing their perspective, imagine a little honky nose and a small car and poopy pants. They are childfree because they want to stay as the child in their lives. They have all sorts of justifications for it, but the core one spoken or not is this: I’m too selfish to have a child.
That’s not how the human race works. That’s not how we flourished for thousands of years. That’s how the species ends.
Pay them no mind. They are clowns.
They way I look at it is, if you have to build a whole internet community to validate your choices to be child-free then your probably compensating for something (parenting communities in comparison range from, good to bad, crowd sourcing help and advice, venting on society/partners, and parenting fads).
There are multiple places on the internet where you can read all about how sunscreen causes cancer (not the sun, that’s a Big Pharma lie) and sunglasses are a con (because if you stare directly into the sun with naked eyeballs your skin will know how sunny it is and protect itself, apparently).
In short - if you go down a rabbit hole, it can feel like there is a large proportion of people with the opinion you’re chasing. Get off of those subreddits - you’re having the baby (and already have a child!), you don’t need to be reading about being child free. **The VAST majority of society is pro-kid.** I promise you that you can find positive internet spaces to spend the next few weeks enjoying while you wait for bub :)
>Any counter arguments to the huge child free movements out there? They're not huge, they just seem that way because you're deliberately finding them and reading them. If I spent time looking I could convince myself there's a giant movement of people who are very angry about any matter. You don't need a counter argument as what they think is nothing to do with you. Stop engaging with them and pay them no mind
Yes Reddit has subs for every flavor or self inflicted negativity. Engaging just pulls you down into the swamp
I think the thing with a forum style site as well as we're one person reading the inputs of what may feel like a lot but in the big picture can still be an incredibly small group, especially when you consider this is an international site. For example a sub of 5k people is a pretty small one overall, but if each member posted only once a year the sub could have ~13-14 unique posts a day. At a casual glance you'd consider that a pretty active sub, but when you take a step back and think about it it's 0.000000489% of the people on Reddit based on their reported 2023 user count. In comparison I used to mod /r/calligraphy which usually had in the ballpark of ~300k members.
Emphasis on that last bit - the algorithm will keep giving you negative stuff if you hate click on it once. Every sub has like three to four other subs in a similarity cluster and if you block one, Reddit will just serve you from the others.
It also feeds you more things if you go to a sub as well I've noticed I click one post and start seeing more.
Yeah the algorithm can be weirdly aggressive sometimes and subs I'm shown can vary wildly from day to day. On the positive notes of having children, I dunno, my toddler shouts dad at me sometimes which is nice lmao. Jokes aside I love my kid more than anything and I'd be lost without that little fool running about.
This can also occur in groups that appear to be supportive of the named sub too! Join a sub like r/marriage and you will just be inundated with unhappy marriages because everyone one seeking it out are not happy. It’s like sitting in a doctor’s office and saying “everyone I see is sick, everyone must be sick.” Leaving those groups has made my life better simply by realizing I’m not reinforcing those specific thoughts all the time.
The same reason im not on r/teachers
That sub would have you believe that literally every student is illiterate and on their phone 24/7.
I'll be the first one to raise alarm about the dangerous and addictive apps be it tik tok or the horrendous free to play games, and too few of them read enough and sufficiently. But I also just had a day teaching my 7th grade about foreign politics and successfully making them engage in a roleplay to show them the fundamentals about power politics. Dopamine addiction is a serious problem, but kids are inherently curious beings.
Man, that sub gives you little hope for humanity :P
Oh God this! Education and science teacher subs are WAY better. I am sure the other specific subject subs are great too.
Same idea as to why the bulk of reviews for places or things are usually very good or very bad. People often only leave reviews when they've had an extreme experience.
I went through /r/stepparents one time and found so many unhappy people there. People who are angry they have step-kids. People who refuse to care for their step-kids. People who are mad because their SO won't send the step-kid off to their ex for the summer and they are going to be stuck with them. A lot of really toxic subs out there.
I have no issue with people who don’t want children and understand there are valid reasons. The people on childfree communities always seem to have a chip on their shoulder and other anger issues. They’re a vocal minority, you’re going to their hive, and tricking yourself into thinking it’s representative of a common sentiment. Thats not unique to childfree subs, so many comment sections become toxic dumping grounds for maladaptive thinking. As a medium step, seek out positive communities or go as far as to unplug and realize how much less nastiness you hear because people have to actually function in society.
There's a world of difference between not wanting kids and being anti kids. Plenty of people don't have kids and are cool about it. Luis of great aunts and uncles for example. But then you get those people who treat kids like an unwanted breed of dog and they can't fathom why they should be allowed to exist. Those people? Spend a lot of time on Reddit from what I can tell.
Yeah, I said it in my own post but folks who feel like they have to make some stance their entire personality are fucking tools.
I don’t disagree with you. Coming online to say you hate kids and can’t handle seeing them in public, hate that other people have them… Go to therapy lol
There is a difference between saying you don't want kids and saying that no one should have kids. The child free subs are basically the latter I think.
Yeah this is how people become obsessed with conspiracy theories.
In the past: Person; \[says crazy thing to people he knows\] Other people: oookaaaaaaaaay. \[walks away\] Person: Oh, maybe I'll keep my thoughts more to myself. --------------------- Age of the internet: Person: \[says crazy thing, broadcast to millions of people\] Teeny Tiny percentage of those millions: RIGHT ON! Person: I found my people! And there are so many of them! They must be a majority of everyone! \[continues in their echo chamber\]
> You don't need a counter argument as what they think is nothing to do with you. There's a great quote I saw once and had to write it down. "Just because someone says something does not mean it is worthy of refutation." - Mark Rippetoe. I think it's a solid philosophy that I admittedly struggle with. I will also say people who take the step from "I don't like X" to "You shouldn't do X" to "you're a bad person if you do X" are a very odd lot and lose a ton of credibility as they frequently can't come up with any good reasons X is harmful.
>"Just because someone says something does not mean it is worthy of refutation." - Mark Rippetoe This should be plastered on every single loading screen on the internet. I love it. There seems to be this pervasive idea on social media especially that not having a good refutation to some stupid shit some bad actor says means what they say is good and valid. No, it's just stupid beyond comprehension and just because I can't break down a lie doesn't magically make it valid.
Honestly didn’t know there was a child free sub
Reddit basically has it's own rule 34 at this point. If you can think of it, there's a sub for it
This, lots of communities online are a lot more niche than people think they are. IRL ideologies can be very different. Plus the world has so much noise, it’s a waste of cognitive bandwidth to worry about things like this.
It's the old "Try to think of a presidential candidate who absolutely no one would vote for". You can't. People out there are wild.
Right, I mean if they were even a significant fraction of people then the world populations would be crashing, but as that is not the case it would seem the majority of people end up having children.
I was unaware of any of those subreddits and this is the only time I’ve ever heard of those subs. Been on Reddit ten years.
I'm very angry about being very angry about things.
Also, I highly recommend checking out CGP Grey's video "this video will make you angry" on YouTube. The man was prescient.
Remove yourself from those subs/forums and join ones where people are actually pregnant/parents.
Yeah, those subs are toxic sesspools anyway. I’m one and done, but I stay far away from them. Their primary purpose is reassuring parents who who deep down fear they made a mistake, that not only did they not make a mistake, but others made the wrong decision.
Do yourself a favor and stay out of those spaces! Reddit can be a very negative space and the childfree subs are particularly so. It's fine to not want children- but it's a bit weird for someone who isn't interested in having kids to dedicate so much of their time and energy to posting about how awful they are. (Like Red PIlled Men constantly going on about how awful women are) If you don't want kids great! But don't make it your whole personality. Not liking something isn't a great thing to base your personality on. Good luck with your new baby! I'm sure he'll be adorable!
100% this. You've got to be a really dull person if "not doing something" subsumes itself into your primary identity.
It’s funny because the same crowd will fling “having kids is your whole identity” at parents.
I think there is a chunk who do actually want kids but are so fearful/unprepared/don't have the resources and so just like anything else with humans - they lash out at those who have worked past those issues.
That’s what I don’t get about this. I don’t have an ev, because it doesn’t work for my life choices. I don’t join an anti ev sub and post about how they suck etc.
>When was the world so negative about having children? Is not, It's simply a loud minority
Man, all of this and then some more. It’s like looking on Yelp for coherent thoughts, but with a ton more emotion and life impact. Negative comments always seem to trump positive ones. People genuinely happy with their lives and kids are rarely posting about it because it feels like boasting. People unhappy are sometimes looking for validation or just to vent, but it’s certainly lopsided.
That's not the whole story. The cost of living crisis, and several other crises in this decade, have made it a little more difficult to raise and afford kids. The government and societal help is reduced so people feel it's harder.
>have made it a little more difficult to raise and afford kids Not to spam the thread with the same comment, but I think it’s really important to correct this misconception. Birth rates are lowest among the wealthiest people, and this is a trend that exists globally. >The government and societal help is reduced Again, this just doesn’t hold up to observation. Countries known for expansive social safety nets have very low birth rates.
I would argue that given the constant declining birthrates and growing number of people not wanting kids, that's not exactly true. It's hard to blame them. It's getting financially harder to make it. Life is a struggle for a lot of people. I'm very blessed, but I see with my own eyes how fucked it is for people with less good fortune.
A loud depressed and socially deficit one. If someone doesn't want kids, no skin off my back, but these people make it their whole being. It just seems like a giant circle jerk to justify their decisions.
Exactly. It's one thing to be child-free due to the absence of having kids. Belonging specifically to a child-free community, in my opinion, is a big bright flashing sign that someone is unwell.
>don’t have kids unless you’re 100% sure You are never 100% sure so people who say this are just saying don't have kids. >there are zero cons to not having them This is subjective and I think it's false. My kids have given me a lot that I wouldn't have had without them >we only have the cause of society pressure No we don't >they ruin your life No they don't, how would a child free community know this >they don’t visit you when they are old…. They may not, but also, they may. >They could be born with lifelong disabilities… They also could not. And if they did it also isn't the end of the world. They'll still love you and you'll still love them >they drain your money, time and freedom Well yes they do but what would you consider a better way to spend your money, time, and freedom? Just to counter some of those thoughts. I'm with everyone else though, you can't stare at the sun and then turn around and ask why you can't see. Stop browsing these subreddits
It’s odd that people would ever say children could be born with a disability as a reason to not have kids, the CDC says ~4% of children are born with a disability. Currently over 8% of American adults are millionaires. Would anyone say you should have kids because they could become a millionaire one day?
And those odds are just going up! Affording a house, though…
I think OP is just dealing with anxiety and is pouring that nervous energy into the childfree sub. Which seems odd to me, since they already have a kid. Bizarre post.....
It is odd to see someone with a 10 yr old asking if they should regret their decision to have kids.
They also posted this to like 10 different subs.
That 8% cannot be true. I mean, it can, but I'm not going to do the research and it seems super high to me haha. But I wholeheartedly agree that worrying something may go wrong is no reason to not have a child. That's a defeatist attitude and doesn't help anyone.
I believe millionaire in this context just means their net worth is over $1 million, which is really not a super lot nowadays (considering most of their net worth is usually their actual house and retirement savings).
Fair. Still seems high in today's world, but the main point still stands.
Statistically it's true. There are about 24 million millionaires in the US out of a population of 330 million. But what does being a millionaire even mean nowadays? If you bought a decent house 20+ years ago in a good suburb of a major coastal city area, then congrats, you're probably a millionaire by now. Or if you stuck $5000/yr into your retirement fund for each of the last 40 years and invested it reasonably, then congrats, you're a millionaire.
I like "They won't visit you when they are old" ... Will not having them force them to visit?
Imagine being haunted by the ghosts of your would-be children when you're old, and then having them ignore you lol
>“Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?” >“Supposing it didn’t,” said Pooh after careful thought. >Piglet was comforted by this.
>When was the world so negative about having children? It isn't >Why do I feel that I’ve made a massive mistake? This is a normal adult feeling that you're making exponentially worse by seeking out people that are reinforcing your doubt >Does anyone else feel this way? Sometimes I wonder what life would've been like if I hadn't had kids, but never because of someone trying to convince other people that they're right and my choice was wrong. >Any counter arguments to the huge child free movements out there? No, don't engage these people, especially not online. You're making this problem for yourself by engaging with this stuff, it sounds like it's time for an extended Internet break, and if that's not feasible it's time to start blocking stuff.
anytime I wonder about life without kids, I immediately get crazy sad and mopey. I can't even do the thought experiment of "what if I went back in time and re-lived my life knowing everything I know now," becuase I can't be sure I would replicate my specific children again - and that thought makes me sad.
> I can't even do the thought experiment of "what if I went back in time and re-lived my life knowing everything I know now," I can go back to December 2020 because both kids would've been born and conceived and I'd have been able to cash in on Dogecoin and GameStop, but otherwise I never get very far into my "wondering".
I have similar problems with that thought experiment, my oldest asked me if I wish I could go back in time and buy all these expensive pokemon cards before they were worth anything. She said that since I wouldn't have ever known my kids, I wouldn't be sad about never meeting them. I love my kids too much and have a good life, I wouldn't want to risk all that. It's why I was able to come to peace with an ADHD diagnosis in my 40s pretty easily. Sure, I wonder what could have been, but what I've got right now is more than I could have dreamed when I was in high school.
>She said that since I wouldn't have ever known my kids, I wouldn't be sad about never meeting them Defeats the whole purpose, if you don't know everything you know now you'd just groundhog day that shit and be back in the same boat. What is it with kids and their inability to comprehend extreme and completely illogical hypothetical scenarios with no rational boundaries?
Right?!? It's almost enough to make me wish I never had kids!
I wonder...
When things at the house get hectic and the kids are being wild, I wish I had some time alone. Then they go on a sleepover and not even an hour into it, I wish they were back causing chaos.
My son is only just about to be six months, but the first time I left him with my mum overnight I genuinely didn’t know what to do with myself. Built myself up for the amazing night sleep I was gonna have and ended up awake half the night as the only thing I could think about was my son.
I'm in kind of the opposite boat? I'm a guy in his 40s who is about to be engaged to a lovely lady with a 9 yr old. So I will get the experience of being a dad but I've also lived 2 decades of my adult life without kids. So then I wonder what life would've been like if I had them. Would I have made the same career decisions and taken the same risks and would I be poorer if I hadn't?
It’s fine if people don’t want to have kids but the people on r/childfree are weirdos. Just don’t have kids… the end. How is it something anyone needs to talk about all the time?
That place is toxic af
It really is. To be fair, I think that sub, and many of it's followers started out as a means to cope and support each other having to deal with being pressured into having kids by family, friends, and society in general. But for every "my mom won't quit asking when I'm giving her grandbabies!" thread, there are 10 "OMG a child was existing near me for a brief time," or "my sister wants to bring her crotchgoblins to my WEDDING!!" The wedding rants irk me the most. A wedding is supposed to be a celebration of love and family, not a fucking queen-for-a-day celebration of the narcissistic bride, which is what it seems to have evolved into in the past 20 years. That sub should really be renamed /r/childhate
Yeah it’s like that sub fatpeoplehate started out as jokes and memes and then really took on its namesake.
Yeah it’s like that sub fatpeoplehate started out as jokes and memes and then really took on its namesake.
It’s very odd. I don’t spend any time thinking or talking about things I don’t ever want to do. So the whole child free subreddits and groups are just so weird to me. I think it’s mostly people who see funny/relatable parenting memes and TikTok’s/reels and feel left out so they make “child free” ones. Like yes I joke about how hard and expensive it is to have kids but that doesn’t mean I hate it. Like yea I day dream about all the free time I used to have and how I could stay up late and sleep in but not being able to do that right now certainly isn’t the end of my life lol.
Somehow they made NOT having kids their entire personality, lol. Imagine a cat person making the fact that they "don't have dogs" their entire personality. Just a cat person forum where they hate on dogs all day. It's kinda silly when you frame it like that. Just a forum to get together and feel superior and complain about all the dog people in the world, and how they are so thankful they don't have dogs, and they can't believe someone would own a dog.
It's likely people with religious trauma or with relatives that are very pushy about having kids. There are a few older folks at work that like to tell the younger people (women generally) that they need to find a man and have kids before they turn 30 and it's "too late". I roast them about how creepy it is and the topic no longer comes up. Those subs are echo chambers that just amplify the negativity.
It's in the same breed as the old fedora atheists on Reddit. Maybe they have some good points, but boy is it strange that hating children takes up such a large space in their head. And it's even weirder when the few you know in real life are, like, Disney Adults (no hate on that generally, but the juxtaposition is wild)
The number of Disney adults who complain about there being children in the parks is just utterly bizarre to me. I do not understand how you advocate to ban children from a Disney park. Like it does not even compute at all to me.
Agreed. It's totally fine if you don't want or even like kids. But making it a cornerstone of who you are is fucking bizarre
I'm not into pro-sports, but it's everywhere, and unavoidable. People constantly talk about it... strangers will try to make smalltalk with me about it, public money is spent on stadiums... sheesh... I should make not-liking pro-sports my entire personality.
My eyes are bleeding after reading in that sub. What a bunch of lifeless losers.
Easily one of the more toxic subs I’ve ever visited. The most miserable and pathetic people for the most part. Clearly they feel the need to justify their decision with constant whining and diatribes. Just abandon all forms of social media that deal in negativity.
I’m glad people are anti-kids. It’s good that people don’t have kids that don’t want to have kids. I feel it used to be forced on everyone to have 2-3 kids. Now it’s normal to just…not.
Finally someone said this. What’s with all the saltiness on this sub?
Here's a dadditide you should embrace: It's happening. Time to make the best of it. You're going to have this kid. Doesn't matter if it was a perfect decision, this is what's happening. So you can lean hard into the good stuff or the bad stuff. I try to minimize the bad... just shrug your shoulders and move on. Then take extra time on the good moments. As for the people celebrating a kid free lifestyle? Pathetic. Imagine making your lifestyle about NOT doing something! If you want to join my marathon-free lifestyle feel free too. We can talk about how our legs aren't sore and we didn't waste money on running gear. What a joke. When did the world get anti-kid? It didn't! Find your village. I get to walk my kid to school every morning with a couple other dad's and their kids. Yesterday one of our neighbors had to deal with something and I came home to find their kids in our backyard with mine. The other weekend another dad and I joined forces to create sand pits for the kids. We're going to the local splash pad this weekend, story time at the library, soccer practice, dance class... there's waaaay more stuff for young families today than there ever has been. But you got to put yourself in the right spots. Spend your time at the library? The world LOVES kids. Spend your time at the local symphony? The world hates kids. ... and my favorite... Spend your time at the art museum and the world hates kids but I don't care because my kid loves art and she told me she wants to pick out a famous painting and try to draw it back home. Get off those toxic subs and join us here. I don't care if you are female. Moms are just lady-dads anyway, your people are HERE not there.
🩷
🩷
They are miserable people projecting their misery on others. They are the result of a sick world, not enlightenment.
True, and to be fair to them, they are pushing back against a lot of societal pressures to have children and healthcare providers who prioritize future husbands’ wishes over women’s bodily autonomy. Everyone could just chill out a bit and respect other’s choices.
I care a lot less about them than they seem to care about people who do have children.
Kind of. Shocking behaviour and negativity sometimes drives clicks, especially content that usually we wouldn't seek out but feel compelled to rage click and comment on. It's the new online economy of engagement and it sucks.
Block the haters. I love my kid more than I ever knew I would. Yes it's tough, yes it can hinder some of your choices, but eventually you'll be able to do things again and share the feeling of the first times with your kid. Simple things will blow their mind, things we take for granted. They tend to keep you honest of the simplicity of life. Don't lose focus. Daddit is here for you. We don't hate or discriminate. I've been apart of this community for at least 6+ months and it's filled with compassion and empathy for all ages of fathers and mothers too!
People who choose to be child free experience a lot of negativity and judgment, believe it or not. I think you are seeing a lot of (mostly deserved) defensiveness and anger boiling over the top. In my opinion, regardless of how you feel, no one can actually be 100% certain that they want a kid before even seeing the kid or getting to know them. PLENTY of people are 100% all in on kids and end up miserable, and PLENTY of people (myself included) had some doubts and reservations and end up loving it. Life is not black and white. It might be hard, but think about this whole new person you're going to get to know and be forever close with. Who knows who they'll turn out to be? For me that's the exciting part. -Currently in the thick of it dadding a 2yo and 5mo.
oh man, that chilfree oppression is a heavy yoke.
I feel like you may have fallen victim to confirmation bias. If you go to subs that are against having (multiple) children you’ll find a lot of arguments against multiples. If you are on subs that are for it you’ll find arguments for it. Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer as it’s a matter of what is right for you personally. Any argument for money, time etc other resources could be turned around by stating it differently. I like to look at it as investing my time and money where it matters to me. Would I rather spend my money on a nicer TV or on toys/education/food for a little human? Same for time. It’s a matter of perspective mostly imo.
Fuck 'em, they have no excuse to watch Bluey, hence they are miserable. We all had kids so we could watch Bluey with them right?
Irrelevant to you and your situation, not a choice you can make so why listen?
Full disclosure. I’m a regretful parent and occasionally spend time in those subs. Having children inevitably requires sacrifices. Sacrifices that you have no choice to not make once you have them. Most people will tell you it’s worth it. Regretful people will tell you it wasn’t. That’s the difference. FWIW, it’s actually a fairly good community (as opposed to childree). Most people there either have medical conditions and have trouble taking care of their kids, or have kids with mental of physical disability, and it’s the only space where they can vent without being called monsters. A lot of them had kids in extremely abusive relationships. Many of them were recently forced to have kids by the state due to restrictive abortion laws. Some have PTSD from very traumatic births. I myself had a child at a time when it was crucial for me to take care of my health, and I simply couldn’t do that with a newborn. I probably lost a decade or two of my lifespan and almost died in a hospital, which wouldn’t have happened if I could sleep 8 hours a day and have time to monitor my vitals. You also have to understand that the majority of people on it love and take care good of their children, but they hate their life. There is a difference. It’s easy to blame those people when you have a typical parenting experience. If you’re on it, the only way to engage with that is to empathize while realizing that their experience is different from yours. If their regret is projecting onto your own experiences, it’s probably time to leave.
Children require a lot of sacrifices, and many people are not interested in making them. However society still provides a lot of pressure to have kids. The child free stuff is push back against that(think the obnoxious atheists that are almost universally ex devoutly religious people). A lot of it is people with bad childhoods, another thing is people who have sour grapes since they can’t afford kids and have he lifestyle they want.
Do kids come with challenges? Yes. We've dealt with behavioural stuff, financial difficulties, upsetting emotional times, feelings of inadequacy as parents, lack of sleep, strains on our relationship, schoolyard drama, teenage hormonal strops. Would I give up one microsecond of it? Fuck no. Other people might be happier without kids, and I hope they enjoy their lives. I don't see any need to tell them they're doing it wrong, and they shouldn't feel superior to people who do have kids. My boys have brought so much love, pride, joy and purpose into my life. We also have a 10-year gap between ours, which has resulted in some interesting situations :-) Wishing you all the best with the new addition!
The crazy child-free people don't really exist outside the internet. 99% of people don't care if you chose to have kids or if they chose to have kids. Just like any other group, they gather in like-minded closed internet discussion-boards and whip each other up into a frenzy...... and then wake up, go to work, talk to their friends/family that have kids, and be a normal person.
I appreciate this post as I think it will allow for some great discussion. I don't know how many people there are that don't want kids vs those that do. I do believe that the crowd that don't want kids have been a lot more vocal about it being okay that they don't have or want children. Which it is okay. It is fine to not have or want children. There's a lot of societal and external pressure to have children if you find a partner, and while I think most of us dad's here were fine with that, the pressure can be a lot for those that aren't fine with it. Especially for women who will be growing and birthing the child. Because having a child changes everything. It changes their bodies during, after, and beyond. My wife will tell you that her hips have never been the same after two children. There are no right or wrong ways to live your life.
Childfree subs: I THINK YOURE MAKING A MISTAKE Myself: I don’t think about you at all. ———- Having kids is a big decision. It’s difficult, expensive, rewarding, glorious, messy, unrewarding, and messy. It’s a microcosm of all of life’s ups and downs. Not everyone should be a parent, and no one is ever 100% ready to be a parent, but a huge amount of people find it one of the most worthwhile endeavors we can do (me included). Unplug from negative spaces. The baby is coming and you will rise to the occasion. Live life on your terms. These crazy pocket computers are amazing but they’ll also pipe negativity right into your frontal lobe. Our happiness depends on the quality of our thoughts, so focus on engaging in spaces that enhance and boost your life path instead of things that only want you to find misery.
Stop reading that shit.
This is a dad sub for dads….
Get off social media. The combination of your pregnancy hormones and the internet is nothing but trouble. Kids are great. You're going to have a blast. Enjoy it.
Get off of social media and stop watching those videos so they get out of your recommended stuff. While the number of people not having kids is growing, it’s not actually a movement or some sort of revolution. It’s a niche people are making content in because they can and I would bet that a large number of those individuals aren’t 100% on their current choices but they are forced in to it for one reason or another. I was indifferent about having kids but now that I have them and can weigh the difference in both worlds I would choose having kids over not 100/100 times.
It sounds like you are the one having doubts/stress/anxiety around this pregnancy. These people aren't seeking you out to force their lifestyle on you, but yet you are choosing to spend a significant amount of time doomscrolling their subreddits. It's very normal to be scared and anxious. I'd suggest majorly or entirely cutting off these subs from your media consumption, and instead investing supportive places where you can look for advice and vent your fears.
I love being a dad, this is an understatement. With the aforementioned, it is incredibly difficult for most right now to be able to afford the kind of life they imagine they’d need/want for them and their kid(s) to be happy. I often feel terrible that I can’t afford vacations, new clothes for myself, can’t afford replacing/repairing items in the home that direly need it…but is not a danger to anyone soooo priorities are keeping kiddo fed and clothed. It may not be so simple as anti child as it is more anti current circumstances. People are scared, they consume much mainstream media and even if they don’t, there’s plenty of first person content in areas all over the world showing hardships and conflicts. The best you can do is focus on you and your family and be kind and forgiving to others deep in the fear. You’re gonna be ok.
Life is so much better and more enjoyable when you unplug
If you walked out your front door and were attacked by a swarm of bees every day, you’d stop going out the front door and start to use the back door. Stop walking out the front door. Those people can think and feel any way they want but you have a choice to continue to listen to them. Just stop. Stop being on those subs. Stop being on social media that brings you that crap. I never see or hear that stuff. I’ve tailored my social media to people who are in my similar situation and want to be. It really is simple. Stop making it hard on yourself. Eliminate this influence from your daily life
I had massive post-partum anxiety after my son was born. I was obsessed with reading about milestones, "When does it get better?" threads, etc on new parent forums etc. I realized I was getting so "in my head" that I wasn't "enjoying the chaos". So much of what goes on can be a matter of perspective. I removed myself from those groups, and would laugh when there would be a blowout and make jokes about the lack of sleep and exhaustion but I always said "it's worth it!" and days passed by and now it's been nearly 6 months and I don't even entertain those voices anymore. So follow the advice of others and let yourself lean into the positive spaces and voices.
These movements are like vegans / there aren’t that many of them, but it seems like more because they all evangelize it to anyone who will listen. Their choice is the right one - for them, not for everyone else. Anyone who doesn’t have anxiety going into having a child doesn’t understand how big of a deal it is, or is delusional, IMHO. When you already have anxiety though, it’s real easy to grab onto anything around to put a face on it. If I were to guess, that is what you are doing here. Having a second with a 10 year old in the mix is easier in some ways, vs having them closer together. The older one can help in many ways, getting things, watching the baby for a few minutes while you shower or cook, wait in line for something, etc. At that age, they can also be a lot more self sufficient, getting themselves dressed, feeding themselves, etc. The first year is tough. No matter what else is in play, the first year is tough because baby needs time and attention. It’s worth it to you though, because you did choose to have another. You already know that much. It wasn’t a mistake. It was a choice. You knew exactly what you were signing up for, and still chose it. What you are dealing with now is basically buyer’s remorse. There will be tough times ahead as a result of your choice, and also amazing times. Embrace it, and enjoy the ride.
Get off of childfree. That’s like seeking sex advice in an incel sub.
Leave these groups and live your life. Stay off social media. You have anxiety because you’re immersing yourself in negativity. Get off your phone and live your life. It may have happened fast, but there’s still good that comes of it. You are creating another extension of you and your SO. The thing is, life is about sacrifice. And you’re gonna have to sacrifice some things in order to be a parent. But I’m sure you learned that after your first. Time is not yours anymore, so just go with the flow of life anyway. Make the best of everything. Have joy in watching your children grow up to discover their own independence. And enjoy watching them learn the world. There is something mesmerizing about just watching even my child pick at dandelions and daisy’s in my yard. I get to watch this little human I created with my wife, that we love more than any type of love we’ve known. And it’s those moments that mean more to me than anything else. Bringing a second child into the mix is gonna be chaos, and I’m sure it will be the same for me and my wife. But I’ve learned that the chaos for you is their childhood/hapiness. It might be hectic running 15 minutes late and you’re supposed to be out the door. And you’ll remember that chaos. But they will remember that they were having a good time playing with toys or learning to get dressed. Not that mom and dad were running late.
Honestly - almost every regretful parenting post I’ve read has had way more to do with the partner , especially those who were “convinced” to have children. I had children to put good people in the world, to raise them to be empathetic world shakers and leave their mark. If at the end of the day I ruin that relationship and they don’t visit when I’m old - then that is my mistake and their right.
It seems that way because you’re going to spaces where those stances are rewarded and reinforced. It’s sort of like going to an Apple forum to get views on Microsoft, or over to the anti car subreddits to see if you should get a Honda.
The easy answer is to not engage with communities that give you anxiety.
The rest of the world doesn’t share those views. This is a case of you’re looking at very specific forums for those folks and they are sharing their views without any counterpoints. Just remove yourself from them and stop seeking them out because they do not apply to your situation at all. They are just echo chambers for their ideas
People will go to great lengths to validate their life decisions, and they do so loudly. Hell, people do it with brands they like to purchase. Make the decision that's right for you and stop letting the vocal minority echo chambers influence your choices.
Those are echo chambers of hateful miserable people with nothing better to do than complain.
Childfree zealots should be happy you’re having a kid so they don’t have to. Somebody’s got to do it!
I have to talk about this fucking r/regretfulparents sub. In my opinion, it's the worst sub here. It isn't a place for parents to vent frustration or get it out of their system. It's a place where people congregate to blame their children as the reason their lives are where they are. I have never in my entire time here seen a sub so needlessly and relentlessly toxic. You need to stop searching out the hate
I mean... it is a place for people to vent. Not everyone is fit to be a parent and unfortunately some people only find that out when it's too late. Therefore they are regretful. I doubt there's many places on the internet where you can vent about those regrets without getting some slack thrown your way. It's incredibly sad and a very miserable place but these people probably don't have any other outlets.
I think a lot of the DINK (Dual Income No Kids) movement is compensating for what they don't have. They're trying to justify their decision and are just as insecure with it as everyone else. Be happy with your choices and try to have no regrets.
Those people sound like borderline sociopaths.
The east counter is to just ignore them.
Here’s my counter argument - stop reading/following any child-free groups. These people have made their choice and feel they need to justify it, good for them it’s their life & choice. Personally I find being a dad to be the most joyous and fulfilling thing I’ve done in a life full of adventures, travel, partying & experiences. That was reinforced by the arrival of my second. Pregnancy is an uncertain time and it’s natural to be a bit apprehensive but you’re definitely compounding it by listening to people who have no idea what they’re talking about.
I think it's natural to feel a little apprehension or anxiousness, and you definitely hit the nail on the head with all the child-free communities that exist online, but I would take those with a grain of salt. What I noticed from these communities (and many others) is it's just an arena for these people to effectively validate one another without really knowing what it's like on the other side of the fence, so speaking from a place of ignorance usually. Valid points do exist, we all know it's not cheap and often times it's not easy to raise kids. But I wonder what tune these same folks will be singing when they grow old and then end up having nobody except maybe their partner/spouse around in their twilight years. I think I'm willing to trade a little time and effort earlier in life to make the latter half more enjoyable. We do that with retirement planning anyway right?
That algorithm messing with you
Reddit is not representative of the world!
Please stop distracting yourself with the opinions of others. You have no way of knowing their core values or their mental state, their personal perceptions of the world do not need to influence yours.
Whether or not you regret having kids is entirely dependent on you and your outlook. Everyone feels down sometimes when having kids, kids are hard and you need to grow in the role. Having a positive outlook and a growth mentality will serve you well. You will always need to be working to make things better, starting with you and working outward. Look at the struggles you are facing with curiosity, why is this happening and how can I change something to make this better should be a common thought. Keep growing and keep going. I wrote this for me, but I guess you can read it too
Hey OP, mine two girls are 10 years apart as well! I’ve got a teenager and a threenager lol. It’s undeniably tough but I wouldn’t change a thing, and anytime I start thinking about how long I’m “in it for”, how I’m missing out on things my child free friends get to do, etc, I just remind myself that if I’m young enough to be raising children then I’m young enough to continue living my life long after they’re out of the house/out of the need for daily care even. Hang in there!
What you need to do is turn off the internet for a while. Caring that much about what a bunch of very online weirdos think about your life decisions is really not OK.
At my most pessimistic I always feel that without children I would just wallow in depression, wasting time and money on hedonistic, habituated addictions and behaviors that make me comfortable. At least having kids help to keep me grounded and “on the right track.” At my most optimistic I feel a deep and powerful love for my children that cannot be replicated by anything else I’ve yet found. The joy and perspective they have provided me is immeasurable. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, and I’ve had my share of parenting-related depression, fatigue, and “second guessing.” Everything will be alright. It will.
There's nothing wrong with being child free. I do think there's something wrong with being anti-natalist though. Those people just seem to have untreated depression the way they talk about life. Love my two boys, can't imagine my world without them. You don't need to seek out validation for your life choices. You're going to have a sweet little baby who loves you. Who cares what some sweaty people on reddit think?
In one way or another, most of their arguments resonate with us in some way. Those ways are \*usually\* the sides of us that are the most susceptible to influence and dark thoughts. Guilt, regret, anger, hate, fear of failure, economic worries, stress, panic. Those are the bad sides of us that healthy adults mostly manage to keep in check a majority of the time, but if we fuel them, they overshadow everything else and it doesn't matter how mentally healthy you are, you will be affected. Now, you have just entered Daddit, the most wholesome, supportive subreddit that exists on this platform. I didn't want children at first, but when the ex became pregnant, and wanted to keep it, I knew I had to step up. Wasn't easy, but it's the consequences of my own actions and I have to take responsibility for that. I absolutely love my little devils to death. It's mostly the situation I regret, the relationship and circumstances around their conception, not their existence. You will find many people in here with lots of various circumstances and events that lead them here. Some wanted kids their entire lives, some had kids from a one night stand, some have kids with disabilities, some have kids that are experiencing bullying. Though we all have different backgrounds and thoughts about how to handle various situations, the one thing we can agree on is that you NEVER go into those child free-type subreddits. They are toxic, negative to the extreme, pessimistic, and down right hateful towards even the thought of having children. I wouldn't wish that place on my worst enemy. You wanted kids, and to quote The Matrix: "You've already made the choice, now you have to understand it". Now the job for you is to do your best, and you already have a 10 year old which I would say is actually a good thing. Twins or kids of a very similar age (1-2 years of each other) is probably the most troublesome, but the older the other child is, the more independent they are, and the more they can help out with the baby. The baby will also have a great big brother/sister to look up to. I can't tell you what the right decision is here. I don't know your relationship status, financial status, living situation, medical history, extended family and so on. Even if I did, I could only give you my opinion based on what I would do, not what would be right for you or right for the child.
1.) Mute those subs immediately. They have nothing to do with your reality. 2.) Talk 👏to 👏a 👏professional 👏! Do not seek advice for something this serious on Reddit. You are an adult. You must choose what sort of information you are going to consume. The child free people are not right for you. You are right for you. you are filling yourself with negative information and you need to start focusing on the positives. For yourself, and for the life of your baby.
Find better communities. My wife found a group for expecting mothers in our city who were all due in the same 2 month period, and it's been such an enriching and supportive experience for her. Not only is she in contact with other mothers, it's other mothers who are in the exact same stage, going through the exact same issues, and finding solutions together, bouncing ideas off each other, organizing regular meetups, etc. If nothing else, it allows a space for "Is it just me..." and "Am I crazy..." type questions that can be difficult to field otherwise.
It's a loud minority that have made their entire personality being child-free. Just like anyone else that makes some part of their life their whole personality (strident vegans, Trump MAGA Republicans, gun nuts, crazy PETA people, etc.) you shouldn't take them seriously. They're emotionally invested in being right above all and aren't able to think clearly or logically about this central issue to their existence. There are clearly pros and cons for having children. And it's fine to either have them or not have them based on your specific circumstances. Life isn't black and white. It's only human to wonder about the path not taken. But don't let it eat you up because of some fucking idiots on the internet.
Stop visiting those other subs. If you have a kid or kids what good will come from it? A bunch of random people complaint to no end. Waste of time and not healthy.
I think life with kids (especially young kids) is harder than without, but harder isn't the same as worse. I think it's normal to wonder what your life would be like without kids, or even to really enjoy little breaks from parenting. You're human and it's hard work. Idk, I don't do some things I used to and I do things I didn't before. I love my kids (even if I don't like them all the time) and I wouldn't go back to being child free if I could (well, not for longer than like 48 hours). For all the tantrums and inconvenience of it, I'm still blown away by the trust they have in me and the wonder I get to experience through them as the figure out the world. I'm really glad I can see reflections of myself in them because it helps me to use my childhood memories to understand them and in doing so I get to understand myself better.
Reddit subs and forums do not represent reality/society as a whole. There's a lot of negativity online. I was shit-scared about having a kid but it's been such a joy for me and my family. Screw what strangers and constantly depressed people think.
It may be the most difficult experience of your life but I guarantee it will also be the most rewarding, irrespective of what your child does , being a parent is a crucial part of your development as a human being , and we are very lucky to experience it.
There is no good time to have a kid imo. You’ll always want more and to be able to do better. I’m on the fence about a 2nd. We’re not poor or wealthy. I don’t know that I could even get our 2nd kid the same as we were able to our first. I want to have retirement, a newish car, a home, insurances, healthcare. With a second, something has got to give. I think I want my 1st born to have a sibling though. A forever friend, support, holiday, family member. We may just need to make the sacrifices on the luxury side. The world is going to be more complicated. I think a sibling would be better for on all angles. And it sucks to think about, at least from an American culture pov, but a second could help support myself and wife in old age. I’m aiming to be self sufficient with retirement, but a later start and not being able to have savings, retirement for myself and wife, and all the life expenses, it may become complicated. The world also needs more good guys if you will. I watch my nieces and nephews have something more than my only child. I think she deserves it too despite my own reservations. I could go on and on. It feels wrong on the money side, but everywhere else seems good I think.
Yea the money side of it is the main reason I have doubts…
The child free movement isn't as big as you think. It's a fairly vocal minority. Stop reading them and pay no attention to it and you'll feel better.
There are a lot more happy families than happy child free parents. Just by the math, that's a fact. If you focus on a particular group of people on the internet, that group is going to seem much bigger than it really is. Edit: but, if you want to balance it out a bit.. look at some of the posts from people who *want* kids and are learning how to cope with the fact that they couldn't. [https://www.reddit.com/r/IFchildfree/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IFchildfree/)
A subreddit can be loud but by now means does it mean it has any real life relevance. There are no child free movements of note. Just stop engaging with those communities.
As a parent myself, I can while heartedly agree with most of the other posters, in that having a child, or children is not a mistake. I have close friends who chose early on that they wouldn't have children, as they not only wanted to be child free, but they really didn't like kids. Fast forward a few years after having my kids, and my friends now adore my children. They even admitted that their previous perception about having children was wrong, and that kids can be a gift. In terms of children costing parents alot of money, time, and freedom, they do. But doesn't mean you'll be worse off than others who don't have kids. For example, my wife and I (with our kids being teenagers) have traveled more than our friends without children, and we have more in savings and retirement than them. Plus, we get to have those prideful moments when our children achieve things, and we have all of the memories we made with them throughout the years. So I'd say ditch the parent free threads, start looking at this from a glass half full outlook, and begin looking forward to getting to know you child, and experiencing all of their firsts. Congrats!
Having kids has been the single most rewarding thing I’ve ever done & it’s not close. Also, the most outspoken anti-kid trend young. The % that changes their mind in their 30s (after they’ve had plenty of ‘me-time’) is still pretty high.
Let me just say, my wife and I were married almost 10 years before we had our first. We traveled, we did fancy dinners, we did big friend get together. My life has never felt as full and loving as my life after my daughter was born. We travel less, we don't get fancy dinners often and friends are a rarer sight, but my kid brings soo much joy and happiness from the moment she wakes up all the way through exhausting bed time. There are cons to being child free, you will never feel the love of a child, which is a huge con to me.
I think this is on par with very niche subs like r/fuckcars. The people who frequent that sub legitimately have their own language and slurs for car owners and wield a “holier than thou” egotistical attitude because they’re environmental and societal “activists”. Is the majority of the world vehemently against people who drive cars? I don’t think so. Social media is inherently a hive mind-ish echo chamber. When you search for specific groups, you’ll find them filled only with like minded individuals who refuse to entertain any other point of view. Most subs like that permanently ban anyone who opposes the viewpoints of the sub therefore making it even more of an echo chamber via censorship. Stay away from negative communities like that and worry about your own life and views. It’s all that matters in the long run.
Mom, they will need you more in their life than you need them at first. Then in that first year, you will see them develop and love, and you will absolutely need them in your life. Just give it time.
Oh, come on now. What I always tell myself is this: What else would I be doing at my age that would actually bring me more fulfillment? At some point, for most humans, we want to do something bigger than ourselves.
I'm sure it's been said but just in case it hasn't: 2 people in my family died this past week, their kids were the ones mainly taking care of them or at least were around so they didn't spend their final months with strangers. Another elder in my family is super old and has been able to stay in her home....because her kids have been taking care of her for years (like helping with shit a couple times per week). I have twins and raising them is by far the hardest thing I've ever done. I've had regretful thoughts, but I know it'll be amazing in the long run. The lows are very low but the highs are very high, you got this
Aww twins are such a blessing! How old are they? X
Absolutely wild haha Edit: sorry read that as how are they, they are like 20 months
It is fine to have these feelings. It’s ok to have doubts. Parenting is hard. Society programmed us to believe children is some kind of gift that’s keeps on giving and makes your life fulfilling and rewarding, like nothing else. But while it’s true for some, it’s also true that it’s the most stressful, hard, tiresome and difficult thing you can go through. Validate your feelings and trust yourself to be strong, allow yourself to be confident. It’s gonna be hard, but you will make it. Don’t compare yourself to others, just be the best version of yourself.
“100% sure” should mean you’re 100% ready to dedicate yourself to your kid, not that you’re sure you want them. There are people who want kids but then zone out and are barely there when it’s harder than they think. Most people I met who are child free had an unkind childhood and bad adults around them. They generalize their memes of parents around those adults.
Stay out of forums that are anti- whatever. Any time you bring a group of people together because they don't like the thing they are discussing, it always devolves into negativity and bitterness. They are cesspools of misery. Someone who is truly living their best life child-free aren't talking about being child-free. They are talking about video games or hiking or skydiving or whatever. The only people on those forums are already angry bitter people that just bring each other down.
Misery loves company. Period. Doubt is a negative feeling, and when we have one negative feeling it makes it easy to latch onto other negative feelings thanks to confirmation bias. It's comforting, even if the overall theme is negative. I don't know what it's like to be a parent to, say, someone with disabilities. But I can say that someone I know who has a son that has downs is one of the most positive people I know. I think there's something about the struggle or the difficulty that puts you at a fork in the road. You either fight it every step of the way, and in turn make yourself miserable, or you lean into the suck and find acceptance in it. In short, the Serenity Prayer. You don't have to be religious to follow it. Take "God" out of it. >Grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference At a certain point, misery becomes a choice. These people are choosing to be miserable. That's their problem, not yours. To quote The Count Of Monte Cristo: There is neither happiness nor misery in the world, there is only the comparison of one state to another. You must wish for death in order to feel total bliss. Until the day god deins to reveal the future to mankind, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words: wait and hope. Let those losers be miserable.
Hey, so reading this kinda sets off some alarms in my head. Are you going to a therapist? And as everyone else is saying, a little break from social media might be good for you and your anxieties.
Reddit userbase is not a good reflection of normal society, take their sentiments with a grain of salt or do as I do and talk shit to them
>I feel like they are the ‘right’ ones and I’ve somehow even deluded and brainwashed by the herd. They are not right. They are doing what's for them, but anyone who will decry your choice to have a child is someone to ignore. Father of two and I enjoy spending time with my kids. They enjoy spending time with me (teenagers now). My wife and I have traveled with them since they were young. Having the mindset of "this may go sideways, but at least we'll have a story" helps. Stop listening to them and get off that sub. It's only hurting your joy and you don't need that, OP.
stop reading that
I don't think I've ever been 100% sure about anything, including having my two beautiful kids! Personally I tend to trust more people who express their doubts about important decisions... Leave those groups and join more supportive ones, look for support groups in your area, delivery preparation courses, etc.
>I just want to be happy and joyful and excited about new baby boy but I feel like the world is so anti kids these days, it’s sad to see. Then just unsubscribe from that childfree sub and stop torturing yourself. They're entitled to their opinion but you don't have to share it. Everyone's anxious in the lead up to a birth, and that's what's going through your head now. Just let nature do it's thing and make the best of it
As someone who is currently on the fence about having kids, when I hear these arguments I just ignore them. While many of the points are fundamentally valid they have become justifications of their choice simply by existing as statements. To you and your decision, it doesn't matter at all how much I care about the probability of genetic abnormalities (still very small regardless of your life stage), or financial impact, or visiting when I'm old. The only thing that matters is how you feel regarding those points. The ONLY value these forums have is that they can identify specific issues that people feel are important in the decision process or as a justification. What is said about those issues in these spaces should be ignored as it will naturally flow towards the expected intent of that forum space. i.e child free subreddit will tend to support and justify their child free status. This is as expected as the subreddit for the LA Lakers tending towards supporting that team. My wife and I are at a critical stage in our own process and it's been a difficult task to dig down and understand how we feel while identifying if a fear or concern is truly ours or if it's been inflicted upon us by the environment. Your fear is natural, just make sure you are identifying the parts that are important to you so you can make your own choice. You are more likely to regret a choice if you let external pressure guide your outcome. Besides, unlike me, you have done this before, you know fairly well what it takes and what you are in for. Equally so, what you will get out of it. Trust yourself
Don't engage or even look at the childfree subreddit. Sure, I am sure there are plenty of reasonable people on there who simply don't want children and are looking for like-minded people. But, there are also people on there who are damn right horrible towards parents (especially mothers) and even children. Not sure if that's from a lack of love from their own childhood or just a damn lack of humanity and decency. The thing is, that minority of people are the loudest. You do you, focus on being the best parent you can be. Surround yourself around more positive people (as cliche as that sounds) and join some actual parenting groups where people discuss everything from challenges to triumphs.
So choose to be happy and excited. Unsubscribe from material that makes you feel anxious. Simple as that.
Hey I'm a Mom Do what feels right Fuck everything else.
Wut? Have your kid and enjoy it brother. Child free people do their own thing and are weird for trying to force people to believe that their lifestyle choice is all enlightened and a better choice. Unless you’re a shitty dad or honestly don’t think you can provide this baby a good upbringing then don’t sweat it and enjoy having a new baby.
I went down the anti-child rabbit hole a while back, and I understand how from the outside in, it can seem like a huge burden, among all the other reasons people have to be “anti kid”. But, when I come home from work, my 5 month old gets his first glimpse of me, and gets a big smile and does his little excited wiggle, that moment alone makes all of the headache and stress worth it. I want to raise my kids to help make the world better, and to help cause change in the things they see wrong. To be strong individuals with big hearts, that understand there is more to the world than just themselves. Every argument, usually, has a counter argument. They claim we’re selfish for bringing kids in to the world as it is, I say I want my kids to help change the world. They say they’re a massive burden, or we only do it for our own selfish vanity. I say if it’s selfish, then I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice every ounce of myself for them, and the burden will be worth it when they go in to the world on their own the first time. You have one child already that you’ve raised and love. Think back to those first months, and how big your heart felt that entire time, and remember that it will return.
Stop reading child free content. That is not your life. Don’t needlessly fill your brain with negativity.
The child free movement and subs are a collection of the most maladjusted sour people I may have ever encountered.
They're such a toxic shithole that they once had to go private after one of their members killed his own infant so he could live their lifestyle.
I mean, you went into an echo chamber where you're only going to hear from people that agree. It's like going to r/atheism and being shocked at how anti-religious people are. r/childfree has 1.5 million subs and r/parenting has 6.6 million. So they are definitely the minority. Loud for sure, but still a minority. They do make real points. Kids are a massive financial drain and will eliminate your personal free time. But you already went through it once so you should already be aware of the costs as well as the more intangible rewards that come with kids. It's that love for our kids and families that subs like that tend to ignore and brush off, but you can't really ignore it because it's what having kids is all about. In that regard they are being disingenuous.
Don’t worry, after a year or two you will realize what those child free people never will. That there is more to this life than just focusing on your self. One of the greatest satisfactions I have found in life so far is teaching my kids new things. I also have found I can relax and take life less seriously now that it’s not all about me.
Echo chambers are called that because they amplify sounds and make it seem like one sound is many. Remove yourself from the echo camber… It’s also okay to feel excited and terrified at the same time, and you don’t need to feel guilty about negative thoughts that cross your mind from time to time. This is all part of processing this big change in life you have coming, and it’s okay to feel those things.
A lot of good advice here. I just want to also say that my children have given me so much more than I could have ever dreamed. The love I feel for them is unfathomable and when they came, they immediately became the best thing in my life. Barring mental illness, I don't see how a person could feel any other way.
Would love to see a follow up of childfree people in their later years 60s, 70s etc. When you start aging and your friends and family start passing away, life slows down etc I imagine it would be a massively lonely experience. Now you cant say that just because you have kids that they are going to come out perfect and want to be in your life but at least anecdotally most kids end up getting married and having kids of their own and want their parents in their life. Holidays are filled with people and food and gatherings and i'd imagine that's what i'd want when im older. Dunno man, having all of your time and money and freedom to do what you want has got to be awesome, but its not like you dont get that time back when the kids are older. Go to one estate sale of someone that passed away in a big old house full of trinkets and bullshit with random people picking through your leftover "stuff" will let you know what the end result of that kind of life leaves you.
Look around! MOST people have kids.
Child free subs are so toxic, and full of people who think children have no place in society. People in those subs refer to us as in a derogatory manner as "breeders". The common theme amongst many of these people is that they are either children themselves or adults who have the maturity of children. I wouldn't listen to anything they say. Having kids is hard, it's truly life changing and some people might wish they could turn back their decision. But you'll never know just how much you can love something until you have a child. I would bet most people who feel regret and want to undo it eventually get to a point where they no longer feel like that.
Those child free people are some of the most toxic folks I’ve ever met. Their opinion on having a family is as valid as that of the turd I just flushed down. Only you know your situation. All of my kids were surprises. I wouldn’t change anything.
I have memories of my kids that are like highlights to my life. They outweigh any memory of vacations, things I bought, or free time I wasted. Here’s one. I took my son to his first hockey game when he was 2 years old. He was a maniac and it was just me and him, so I was a little nervous about keeping his attention and keeping him safe without my wife, but I also wanted to spoil him and just make an overall fun experience. He could talk, but not really have conversations. We were standing in line for popcorn and snacks and he was smiling at the other people in line and being silly. He turned to me and gave me the “pick me up” gesture, so I picked him up and put him on my hip. He grabbed my neck and leaned back as if to get a better look at my face and sat there looking at me for a moment. The biggest smile I had ever seen grew across his face and he leaned in and hugged my neck and shoulders so tight with his little arms. He didn’t know how or when to say “I love you, dad” but he didn’t have to. That look and big hug he mustered said it all for him. I will never ever forget that moment in my life.
Dude stay out of those forums. The die is cast and those folks are kinda miserable anyway. Please don’t go to the internet to understand your life, even here.
>Any counter arguments to the huge child free movements out there? I know they don't like to hear it but its true, they don't know what they're missing. The loudest voices of the child free movement want it to make it seem like they're some persecuted minority so they exaggerate everything. That's their prerogative and I'm not going to debate them because being a parent is just one part of me anyway. Even if I completely regretted having kids then they'd be right and my day to day would be the same anyway. Even if they're right, what are you gonna do? Put the baby back? My sister-in-law has teens and a toddler. In some ways I'm glad I had mine back to back but her older kids are so sweet and caring for their baby sibling that is really sweet to see as well. Plus no worry about getting two kids closer in age doubled booked in something like different soccer games across town.
I think you should stop worrying about what other people do with their lives or what they might think about yours. You don't need to make a counter argument there's no "correct" answer in how to live you life other than to do what *you* want.
I think there is an asymmetry to how parents and child-free people can talk to one another. This is because we know that there are people out there who are trying to be parents and can't; so we want to spare those feelings. So when we talk about having children, we tend to focus on mundane inconveniences like lack of sleep, messy house, etc. We don't talk enough about the existential fulfillment (maybe "blessings" for believers?) of being a parent. But the truth, at least to me, is that the life of a 30+ child free person seems absolutely dreadful and pointless. Have you ever heard someone w/o children describe their vacation? It usually boils down to "we ate and drank someplace else for a change." So boring. On a technical level, if we are talking about antinatalism, I don't agree with the supposition that life is more suffering than enjoyment. This is even true for those with lifelong disabilities. I worked with adults with ID for years, and they had fulfilling, enjoyable lives. The existence of people with lifelong disabilities isn't evidence that life is suffering, it's evidence that your bourgeois definition of a "well lived life" needs to be examined.
The world is selfish by nature, and parenting is one of the most selfless (and rewarding) endeavors a person can undertake. There’s nothing wrong with people to choose to not have children, but don’t you let them try and explain why YOU shouldn’t have kids. If you’re prepared to love, teach and support your child, then nothing else matters. I’m of the belief that strong nuclear families are better for society than childless, single people.
I can see the consequences of not having children; as a lifestyle choice, as a movement and as a society. The first I understand. But no good can come from the latter two. What arguments are they presenting? I'd happily debate even someone posing as a devil's advocate.
Other people's views on having children should be flushed down the toilet with a bad bowl movement, and a small toy that your first child "wanted to see what would happen with". Get out of your own head and start picking out room colors!
They’re clowns. So when they are sharing their perspective, imagine a little honky nose and a small car and poopy pants. They are childfree because they want to stay as the child in their lives. They have all sorts of justifications for it, but the core one spoken or not is this: I’m too selfish to have a child. That’s not how the human race works. That’s not how we flourished for thousands of years. That’s how the species ends. Pay them no mind. They are clowns.
They way I look at it is, if you have to build a whole internet community to validate your choices to be child-free then your probably compensating for something (parenting communities in comparison range from, good to bad, crowd sourcing help and advice, venting on society/partners, and parenting fads).
There are multiple places on the internet where you can read all about how sunscreen causes cancer (not the sun, that’s a Big Pharma lie) and sunglasses are a con (because if you stare directly into the sun with naked eyeballs your skin will know how sunny it is and protect itself, apparently). In short - if you go down a rabbit hole, it can feel like there is a large proportion of people with the opinion you’re chasing. Get off of those subreddits - you’re having the baby (and already have a child!), you don’t need to be reading about being child free. **The VAST majority of society is pro-kid.** I promise you that you can find positive internet spaces to spend the next few weeks enjoying while you wait for bub :)