Undead don't die, the trade off is they're susceptible to permanently losing their sanity in a downward spiral if they lose their sense of purpose/self (sort of like real life), smithing and helping undead give him purpose in life, so he's been able to live through another empire (maybe more, who knows). Siegmeyer on the other hand loses his sense of purpose when he realizes how much he depends on your character in DS1 despite identifying with a life of adventuring, so he loses his grasp on reality and goes hollow. In the Dark Souls lore, time is convoluted, so the events in the games don't necessarily happen in quick succession even if they feel like it, Siegmeyer's descent into madness could have happened over years but felt like only moments to you or his daughter.
The short answer is he's undead and can basically live forever if he doesn't lose his mind over thousands of years of living.
He doesn't die, you can absolve your sins and he'll come back and offer his services again, so presumably he just gets mad after he respawns, since undead can't truly die
is this in ds1 as well? and is it true of other npc’s? i was under the impression that if you kill NPC’s they don’t come back. but also that undeads can live forever. just trying to work out how that works canonically.
When the undead curse takes hold it doesn't hit everyone at once. It's likely Andre was still human in DS1 and that's why we as the player could kill him at that point. In DS3 though he's definitely undead and continues to re-spawn.
When it comes to npc's though it may be implying that us killing them is the final push for them to totally hollow (with exceptions to the strong willed like Andre or the shrine maiden in ds3) and they simply wander off to places unknown instead of returning to where we killed them. I'm pretty sure the game implies that days/weeks possibly longer pass between our death and respawn so plenty of time for newly hollowed folks to wander away.
Also in DS1 when we pick up the divine embers we take them off of corpses that look nearly identical to Andre so either there is some "time is convoluted" nonsense going on or reincarnation, or Andre's bloodline has some incredibly powerful dominant genes leading to descendants looking borderline identical, but I'm not entirely convinced we meet the same Andre in DS3.
There's an interview where Miyazaki addresses the Andre lookalikes, he said there is no connection and they just wanted a familiar object to house the embers.
Yeah from a game development standpoint that makes sense, but FROM do love their environmental storytelling so I still believe from an in lore standpoint there'd still be some small explanation.
i feel like due to the alternate firelink shrine, ds3 has some convergence of alternate possible timelines happening as is. there’s a probably lot of andres because there’s a lot of possibilities
i always just assumed there was a race of blacksmiths since they all look the same lmao
and petrified
which is pretty fucking weird if you think about it, the only petrified corpses you see are those of dragons, otherwise corpses don't look like that, so there has to be something weird going on with those blacksmiths
I believe the Andre from DS1 is from Astora originally, but idk where I remember that from, but it's not impossible that Seath experimented on some of them to either create clones under Gwyn or someone's request so they can have superior weapons indefinitely or possibly used them as guinea pigs on his immortality research possibly using the dragon scales we find for upgrades throughout the game before he moved on to mutating the maidens.
That's all speculation though and other than one of them being right next to a butterfly we know Seath made I don't have any real evidence for that. Especially since the other is in Tomb of the Giants.
Lol that's a good question, I never thought about that, a lot of NPCs in DS1 aren't actually undead, maybe Andre becomes undead later, or maybe respawning is more of a gameplay mechanic than a canonical undying, because you can technically permanently kill NPCs who definitely are undead like Patches. My thought on this was always, maybe they respawn and are unable to regain humanity so they go hollow. Your character is shown to basically resist the insanity that comes with going hollow, but other NPCs probably don't, like with the crestfallen warrior. I've never personally tried to kill Andre, I just know he can come back because my friend accidentally killed him in DS3 years ago, and while freaking out he looked up you can absolve your sins, and it worked for him. It definitely isn't a thing in DS1.
I think that the separation of "worlds" was stronger in DS1, to the point that all NPCs that you kill are "dead" in your world permanently in DS1, but some have their worlds and yours overlap so strongly in DS3 because of how everything is merging that they don't stay dead in yours because they kept reviving in their world, which is now essentially the Ashen One's world too. That's why a bunch of the Shrine NPCs don't stay dead.
Because he is a big, strong man that has captured the hearts of many wanderers and undead alike. If you've seen this man fight you wonder how he didn't become lord of cinder.
Hey, there! Seems like this is your first foray into Dark Souls.
So, I'll keep it simple. The Dark Souls games take place in the Age of Fire, where the First Flame burns. However, every once in a while, the First Flame begins to Fade, and a powerful soul must sacrifice themselves to become kindling to keep the Flame burning.
When the Flame begins to Fade, time and space seem to congregate towards the Kiln of the First Flame, for lack of a better term. It's why we see the Catacombs of Carthus beneath a swamp when item descriptions describe it as a desert kingdom, and why the cathedral of Anor Londo is above Irithyll.
So when all of existence is being pulled towards one central point, yes. Time *is* convoluted.
I read as time stopping making much sense around the kiln of the first flame by the time Dark Souls 3 happens. Maybe it's OG Andre able to exist because time is collapsing, maybe it's an alternate reality Andre.
As another poster and a good friend once said, time is convoluted.
I'm still making my way through DS3, but I'm taking the "time is convoluted" thing like this: every time the Fire is Rekindled, spacetime is "folded back on itself."
Each time it's "folded," the events play out with the same uncertainty as any; but if even *one* "fold" has the Fire linked, it starts all over again.
Basically I'm pretending timespace is a "strip of film" capable of infinite "exposures;" even though some of these "exposures" happen eons after one another, there's still artifacts of the previous "exposures" (ergo, the previous cycle of Rekindling -\> the Fire Fading -\> ?) that can make it through to the "present" if they were profound enough; like taking a picture of the Sun, if you try to re-expose it, you may get a faint image afterwards but there'll always be an "overexposed" section of the film.
And you can see these "alternate exposures" leak through to the "present" sometimes; like Champ Gundyr's failed world/dilapidated Firelink Shrine being physically connected to the land of Lothric, whereas the Firelink Shrine the Ashen One uses seems completely disconnected from Lothric as a whole.
We can only warp to and from "our" Firelink, but you can stumble onto Gundyr's Shrine right outside of Ocieros' Garden.
Well that is a stupid way to look at it. The only real piece of lazy fan service in ds3 is the demon prince boss room.
Andre being there makes more than sense considering ds3 as a whole. Lordric is located in lordran by all accounts. Just in a different time. Ds3 as a whole revolves around that notion. None of that is fanservice. It's not only a sequel, but an ending to the story that started in ds1.
"Most people think time is like a river that flows swift and sure in one direction, but I have seen the face of time and I can tell you they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm."
This quote couldn't be more accurate
Andre saw an ad on indeed and saw a job posting that was steady employment and all it required is to be a blacksmith, so naturally he applied and the shrine maiden said, “welcome and I could use the company while I wait”
Anyone will stay for steady employment that pays well and has good benefits 😂
The meta-reason he’s there is because DS3 was trying to get back to what made DS1 great. So they returned back to the story of Gwyn and friends.
And try to bring back some NPCs with similar roles as well. For the smith well, let’s just put Andre again directly!
From lore perspective, time is convoluted.
The reason he's there is the same reason oscar is the body where you get your ashen estus flask. The game is trying to make you realize early on that events are being repeated
Because Dark Souls 3 is nothing if not a festival of fanservice and retconned nonsense.
I MEAN the flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out etc.
If someone is making it to the events of Ds3 from 1 its Andre. Have you seen him fight? That and the possible connections to Gwyn’s family tree helps. He’s a particularly powerful undead after all.
Lore answer: He’s undead and time is convoluted
Real answer: After ds2 was poorly received FromSoftware fell back on popular characters/areas from ds1 for nostalgia bait. Love the game but wish it relied less on reminding us that ds1 exists
I would assume there is a lot of Andre’s, since we get embers off dead ones in dark souls. It would have been cool if they keep him as Gywns firstborn son.
In an interview, Miyazaki explained those statues have no relation to Andre, they just used them in a more generic non-lore related sense to hold an ember and portray that it used to be another blacksmith. In that same interview he mentions Andre was originally going to be Gwyn's son, who was guarding a door in firelink and would eventually open it to the player, but likely due to time constraints, they scrapped a lot of unique looking NPCs and their original purposes in the story, and added more generic NPCs built from the character creator to patch together a story that didn't require them to uniquely animate a bunch of NPCs.
Undead don't die, the trade off is they're susceptible to permanently losing their sanity in a downward spiral if they lose their sense of purpose/self (sort of like real life), smithing and helping undead give him purpose in life, so he's been able to live through another empire (maybe more, who knows). Siegmeyer on the other hand loses his sense of purpose when he realizes how much he depends on your character in DS1 despite identifying with a life of adventuring, so he loses his grasp on reality and goes hollow. In the Dark Souls lore, time is convoluted, so the events in the games don't necessarily happen in quick succession even if they feel like it, Siegmeyer's descent into madness could have happened over years but felt like only moments to you or his daughter. The short answer is he's undead and can basically live forever if he doesn't lose his mind over thousands of years of living.
so what happens if we kill him
He doesn't die, you can absolve your sins and he'll come back and offer his services again, so presumably he just gets mad after he respawns, since undead can't truly die
is this in ds1 as well? and is it true of other npc’s? i was under the impression that if you kill NPC’s they don’t come back. but also that undeads can live forever. just trying to work out how that works canonically.
When the undead curse takes hold it doesn't hit everyone at once. It's likely Andre was still human in DS1 and that's why we as the player could kill him at that point. In DS3 though he's definitely undead and continues to re-spawn. When it comes to npc's though it may be implying that us killing them is the final push for them to totally hollow (with exceptions to the strong willed like Andre or the shrine maiden in ds3) and they simply wander off to places unknown instead of returning to where we killed them. I'm pretty sure the game implies that days/weeks possibly longer pass between our death and respawn so plenty of time for newly hollowed folks to wander away. Also in DS1 when we pick up the divine embers we take them off of corpses that look nearly identical to Andre so either there is some "time is convoluted" nonsense going on or reincarnation, or Andre's bloodline has some incredibly powerful dominant genes leading to descendants looking borderline identical, but I'm not entirely convinced we meet the same Andre in DS3.
There's an interview where Miyazaki addresses the Andre lookalikes, he said there is no connection and they just wanted a familiar object to house the embers.
Yeah from a game development standpoint that makes sense, but FROM do love their environmental storytelling so I still believe from an in lore standpoint there'd still be some small explanation.
i feel like due to the alternate firelink shrine, ds3 has some convergence of alternate possible timelines happening as is. there’s a probably lot of andres because there’s a lot of possibilities
i always just assumed there was a race of blacksmiths since they all look the same lmao and petrified which is pretty fucking weird if you think about it, the only petrified corpses you see are those of dragons, otherwise corpses don't look like that, so there has to be something weird going on with those blacksmiths
I believe the Andre from DS1 is from Astora originally, but idk where I remember that from, but it's not impossible that Seath experimented on some of them to either create clones under Gwyn or someone's request so they can have superior weapons indefinitely or possibly used them as guinea pigs on his immortality research possibly using the dragon scales we find for upgrades throughout the game before he moved on to mutating the maidens. That's all speculation though and other than one of them being right next to a butterfly we know Seath made I don't have any real evidence for that. Especially since the other is in Tomb of the Giants.
Lol that's a good question, I never thought about that, a lot of NPCs in DS1 aren't actually undead, maybe Andre becomes undead later, or maybe respawning is more of a gameplay mechanic than a canonical undying, because you can technically permanently kill NPCs who definitely are undead like Patches. My thought on this was always, maybe they respawn and are unable to regain humanity so they go hollow. Your character is shown to basically resist the insanity that comes with going hollow, but other NPCs probably don't, like with the crestfallen warrior. I've never personally tried to kill Andre, I just know he can come back because my friend accidentally killed him in DS3 years ago, and while freaking out he looked up you can absolve your sins, and it worked for him. It definitely isn't a thing in DS1.
I think that the separation of "worlds" was stronger in DS1, to the point that all NPCs that you kill are "dead" in your world permanently in DS1, but some have their worlds and yours overlap so strongly in DS3 because of how everything is merging that they don't stay dead in yours because they kept reviving in their world, which is now essentially the Ashen One's world too. That's why a bunch of the Shrine NPCs don't stay dead.
this one works for me
He will refuse to let u use his service until u absolve
Aside from you being a monster! Lol not much
Yeah him being a blacksmith saved him from going hollow, he's the only one around by the time ds3 starts so his purpose is set in stone
Dark souls 1 time is linear, the only game where the time is fucked up is the 3rd one since it's already collapsing fue to the fire fading for good.
Well, judging by Solaire's dialogue directly stating time is convoluted, I dunno if I agree with that.
Because he is a big, strong man that has captured the hearts of many wanderers and undead alike. If you've seen this man fight you wonder how he didn't become lord of cinder.
Still remember getting my ass kicked by him in DS1. Most epic of fist fighters ever. My reaction "Holy fuck, why am I fighting Mike Tyson?"
Mike tyson stands absolutely no chance against daddy andre. Andre is the pinnacle of fighter.
>that has captured the hearts of many wanderers and undead alike In a jar. On his mantle.
Time is convoluted
It really isnt
he literally quoted the game
Hey, there! Seems like this is your first foray into Dark Souls. So, I'll keep it simple. The Dark Souls games take place in the Age of Fire, where the First Flame burns. However, every once in a while, the First Flame begins to Fade, and a powerful soul must sacrifice themselves to become kindling to keep the Flame burning. When the Flame begins to Fade, time and space seem to congregate towards the Kiln of the First Flame, for lack of a better term. It's why we see the Catacombs of Carthus beneath a swamp when item descriptions describe it as a desert kingdom, and why the cathedral of Anor Londo is above Irithyll. So when all of existence is being pulled towards one central point, yes. Time *is* convoluted.
A deep understanding of the timeline is my “first”?
I read as time stopping making much sense around the kiln of the first flame by the time Dark Souls 3 happens. Maybe it's OG Andre able to exist because time is collapsing, maybe it's an alternate reality Andre. As another poster and a good friend once said, time is convoluted.
Hey this is a good idea, like how its all in a constant loop? Patches in ringed dlc, ashes dlc hinting at painting loops?
I'm still making my way through DS3, but I'm taking the "time is convoluted" thing like this: every time the Fire is Rekindled, spacetime is "folded back on itself." Each time it's "folded," the events play out with the same uncertainty as any; but if even *one* "fold" has the Fire linked, it starts all over again. Basically I'm pretending timespace is a "strip of film" capable of infinite "exposures;" even though some of these "exposures" happen eons after one another, there's still artifacts of the previous "exposures" (ergo, the previous cycle of Rekindling -\> the Fire Fading -\> ?) that can make it through to the "present" if they were profound enough; like taking a picture of the Sun, if you try to re-expose it, you may get a faint image afterwards but there'll always be an "overexposed" section of the film. And you can see these "alternate exposures" leak through to the "present" sometimes; like Champ Gundyr's failed world/dilapidated Firelink Shrine being physically connected to the land of Lothric, whereas the Firelink Shrine the Ashen One uses seems completely disconnected from Lothric as a whole. We can only warp to and from "our" Firelink, but you can stumble onto Gundyr's Shrine right outside of Ocieros' Garden.
well a mommy andre and a daddy andre loved each other very much..
BetterWork Enviroment.
Andre boxes his way and dropkicked the undead that tried to stop him from his true purpose... SMITHING!!!
I imagine that he just walked out of Lordran and went somewhere else where he could get work.
Time has gone to shit, that's why
He's just a humble Smith
A man that chooses to fight bare knuckle in a world full of great champions with other worldly weapons is probably made out of tougher stuff
He carpooled with the fire keeper and the shrine hand maid. Do you know how many souls an Uber ride is these days?
Lazy fanservice
Well that is a stupid way to look at it. The only real piece of lazy fan service in ds3 is the demon prince boss room. Andre being there makes more than sense considering ds3 as a whole. Lordric is located in lordran by all accounts. Just in a different time. Ds3 as a whole revolves around that notion. None of that is fanservice. It's not only a sequel, but an ending to the story that started in ds1.
Probably took the bus
"Most people think time is like a river that flows swift and sure in one direction, but I have seen the face of time and I can tell you they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm." This quote couldn't be more accurate
thats real
By DS3 time is not a river not a ocean in a storm Its a stagnat puddle
He smiths the anvil so fast he breaks through logic and reality, harnessing the power of the Flame itself.
He's always been there
nah he moved once
He took an uber from undead burg
I brought him here , thank me later
Well if smiting keeps him from hollowing i think he will never hollow like ever i think he can do this forever and seem content with little.
He got sick of the titanite demon throwing lightning at undeads in his shop and breaking everything
Same as you did. He just made the same character
He didn't came here, he was always there. They just build the new firelink around him.
How did he cum there? He had a quick wank looking at the firekeeper... There's no shame in it, we've all done it right? Right?
he was probably bumping her head with the hammer
He was in the neighbourhood and thought why not pop in for some smithing
Andre saw an ad on indeed and saw a job posting that was steady employment and all it required is to be a blacksmith, so naturally he applied and the shrine maiden said, “welcome and I could use the company while I wait” Anyone will stay for steady employment that pays well and has good benefits 😂
The meta-reason he’s there is because DS3 was trying to get back to what made DS1 great. So they returned back to the story of Gwyn and friends. And try to bring back some NPCs with similar roles as well. For the smith well, let’s just put Andre again directly! From lore perspective, time is convoluted.
The reason he's there is the same reason oscar is the body where you get your ashen estus flask. The game is trying to make you realize early on that events are being repeated
Also lordric and lordran very much overlap in place
Same way gael did
He walked
Because Dark Souls 3 is nothing if not a festival of fanservice and retconned nonsense. I MEAN the flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out etc.
what a dumb comment
If someone is making it to the events of Ds3 from 1 its Andre. Have you seen him fight? That and the possible connections to Gwyn’s family tree helps. He’s a particularly powerful undead after all.
You’re asking too many questions
Lore answer: He’s undead and time is convoluted Real answer: After ds2 was poorly received FromSoftware fell back on popular characters/areas from ds1 for nostalgia bait. Love the game but wish it relied less on reminding us that ds1 exists
dont know why ppl are downvoting you, i find this very true. I love DS3, but at times it felt strained.
I would assume there is a lot of Andre’s, since we get embers off dead ones in dark souls. It would have been cool if they keep him as Gywns firstborn son.
In an interview, Miyazaki explained those statues have no relation to Andre, they just used them in a more generic non-lore related sense to hold an ember and portray that it used to be another blacksmith. In that same interview he mentions Andre was originally going to be Gwyn's son, who was guarding a door in firelink and would eventually open it to the player, but likely due to time constraints, they scrapped a lot of unique looking NPCs and their original purposes in the story, and added more generic NPCs built from the character creator to patch together a story that didn't require them to uniquely animate a bunch of NPCs.
Kill him