It seems unrealistic that 1 in 4 of the entire population of Hong Kong is working in software development (including, children, elderly etc)?
Is it per 100 of working age adults?
The other explanation would be a lot of the Hong Kong accounts are being used by people in mainland China.
this specifies accounts, and not people. it's highly likely that a good chunk of those 24 accounts are second or even third accounts made by existing users
Yeah I have one personal account that I've also done work with once on a private repo, 9 different accounts for specific contracts, and I've had 4 other accounts in the past specific to full time jobs - in most of those so did most of the other devs and external contractors or consultants.
That would still not explain anything, because that would also be the case in any other country.
Why would they make more accounts than any other nation.
I guess its more something Github is Blocked by the great fire wall in china and the vpns connect the devs to Hong Kong for free open internet.
Accounts is a terrible metric, as other countries don't have the same incentives to make multiple accounts, and so wouldn't bother.
If this was active accounts with a commit in say the last month or minimum number of commits. It might be more relevant, but even then I'd find it questionable. It's just a bad metric to count.
Its just Data, there is no reasoning or justification for anything based on this Data.
It completly depends on the context its used for.
I dont see why this country has an additional incentive to make multiple accounts, more than other users from other ips.
Exactly ! Are these all accounts from the beginning of time ? Seems like the graph is designed to be more of a clickbait than to provide any meaningful insight. Just because there’s “data”, it doesn’t mean that it’s useful or right. Agree that “active” accounts with a commit in the last 3, 6 and 12 months would be slightly more interesting. Is that “data” available ?
How does this change anything ? That is not against the argument in anyway.
It even supports my theory that there are outside people making accounts with a Hong Kong IP, because the City is smaller that affects the statistic even more.
Edit: typos
It's unrealistic that 24% of the HK population has an account, but if users have 3 accounts on average, it would not be unrealistic that 8% of the HK population has an account.
It kinda is, as it works out at 1.3 million accounts in place where only about 70k of jobs are in software development.
IT is not a major industry in Hong Kong, it’s only 3.7% of GDP (US it’s 9%).
Hong Kong has a big finance / banking industry (22% of GDP) , a lot of those software jobs will be for the banking sector.
Banks are very conservative IT wise. For obvious security reasons they will not be letting most of their devs post code / use code from GitHub. Hong Kong software developers will be less likely to use GitHub than developers in countries which are less dependant on the banking sector.
It doesn’t, that requires a different explanation (probably the mainland china one). But they are actually all higher than you would expect, one in 20 brits have a github account?? So its a good explanation for them all being higher
China uses HK VPNS so they can connect to Western internet (because of the firewall of China)
Also using software devs per population and calling it a software hub is kind of a dumb take. If everyone in Iceland was a programmer you wouldn't call it the programming hub of the world when California has three times Icelands population in just software engineers alone but they make up a small fraction of California population.
It is per 100 population. As the other comment mentioned, the subtitle says "accounts" rather than unique users for that very reason, I can't account for people using multiple accounts, VPNs, etc.
With a population of 7.3 million that would be 1.8 million accounts?
A very quick internet search says about 70k people in Hong Kong work in software development in Hong Kong and that the entire IT industry only makes up 3.7% of GDP.
These figures don’t match up,
Yes, it's 1.83m accounts [as per GitHub's own numbers](https://innovationgraph.github.com/economies/hk). The data doesn't specify whether these are unique users, just the number of accounts.
I wonder how many teachers get their classes to submit homework assignments via github. I would totally pull that stunt if I was a teacher. Self-grading assignments ftw, no-pasaran my class if CI doesn't pass on a pull request.
Totally, the amount of accounts means nothing.
I used to have up to 6 accounts when i was doing courses and making challenges for different companies when I was trying to change jobs.
The thing is, you hide the repos, but if you need all of them simultaneously, you are screwed.
GitHub is banned in China mainland and many developers in China will need to use Hong Kong as a landing zone to the Internet. That might be the reason why the dev count is inflated.
Both Hong Kong and Singapore numbers are largely skewed by the VPN users based in China as GitHub is intermittently blocked by the firewall or has very slow connection from China.
I think it is relatively close geographically, and good internet infrastructure makes it ideal for VPN providers to have lots of available connections there.
Also, India has large non-services sector, such as agricultural or manufacturing.
The top 2, Singapore & Hong Kong, are islands with economies focused on services. That probably includes VPNs, which heavily skews the resident to account ratio.
One household is a single bachelor who's a software dev. The other household is a large extended family of 18, with 9 members in software dev. It's 100% vs 50%, but come on; The 2nd household is probably more of a "software development powerhouse".
this is incredibly meaningless, this just indicates the popularity of Github in general, most companies like to keep private repositories in Europe and therefore avoid shitty Microsoft products
I'm interested to see what China's GitHub alternative is, and how many accounts there are.
Apparently Gitee has 30 million but idk if that's the biggest or only alternative there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitee
This is the most popular chinese code hosting service based on git. Its website says 12 million registered users as of now.
Yeah I saw. Seems super low for a developing economy of 1.4 billion people. I think another person was right, the HK numbers are inflated with mainlanders VPNing past the great firewall.
There’s quick a few Chinese code hosting services, so it’s not as concentrated as GitHub overseas (but there’s bitbucket and others too..)
Also I guess not as much developers are doing open source work in china too..
Edit: and yeah the HK and SG numbers are 100% propped up by VPNs.
Interesting that Estonia is so high. Wondering if its people from Russia like people from China are using Hong Kong and Singapore VPNs.
Israel, Ireland, Nordic countries and Canada and US make sense though
So.. what this graph is saying is that people in PRC are using a VPN in Hong Kong and Singapore instead of a VPN in the US or other free country to create their GitHub accounts.
Also, Hong Kong is not a nation, as much as it would like to be.
It seems unrealistic that 1 in 4 of the entire population of Hong Kong is working in software development (including, children, elderly etc)? Is it per 100 of working age adults? The other explanation would be a lot of the Hong Kong accounts are being used by people in mainland China.
I’m more inclined to believe it’s Chinese developers with Hong Kong VPN or “Location”
this specifies accounts, and not people. it's highly likely that a good chunk of those 24 accounts are second or even third accounts made by existing users
A lot of them are also probably Chinese users circumventing the great firewall.
It’s 1000% this
Even the US number of 6.2 seems crazy high to me. I'm sure there's a lot of people with multiple accounts.
Yeah I have one personal account that I've also done work with once on a private repo, 9 different accounts for specific contracts, and I've had 4 other accounts in the past specific to full time jobs - in most of those so did most of the other devs and external contractors or consultants.
That would still not explain anything, because that would also be the case in any other country. Why would they make more accounts than any other nation. I guess its more something Github is Blocked by the great fire wall in china and the vpns connect the devs to Hong Kong for free open internet.
Accounts is a terrible metric, as other countries don't have the same incentives to make multiple accounts, and so wouldn't bother. If this was active accounts with a commit in say the last month or minimum number of commits. It might be more relevant, but even then I'd find it questionable. It's just a bad metric to count.
Its just Data, there is no reasoning or justification for anything based on this Data. It completly depends on the context its used for. I dont see why this country has an additional incentive to make multiple accounts, more than other users from other ips.
Exactly ! Are these all accounts from the beginning of time ? Seems like the graph is designed to be more of a clickbait than to provide any meaningful insight. Just because there’s “data”, it doesn’t mean that it’s useful or right. Agree that “active” accounts with a commit in the last 3, 6 and 12 months would be slightly more interesting. Is that “data” available ?
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How does this change anything ? That is not against the argument in anyway. It even supports my theory that there are outside people making accounts with a Hong Kong IP, because the City is smaller that affects the statistic even more. Edit: typos
It's unrealistic that 24% of the HK population has an account, but if users have 3 accounts on average, it would not be unrealistic that 8% of the HK population has an account.
It kinda is, as it works out at 1.3 million accounts in place where only about 70k of jobs are in software development. IT is not a major industry in Hong Kong, it’s only 3.7% of GDP (US it’s 9%). Hong Kong has a big finance / banking industry (22% of GDP) , a lot of those software jobs will be for the banking sector. Banks are very conservative IT wise. For obvious security reasons they will not be letting most of their devs post code / use code from GitHub. Hong Kong software developers will be less likely to use GitHub than developers in countries which are less dependant on the banking sector.
So how does this explain why Hong Kong has 4 times more Acccounts than the US or Norway ?
It doesn’t, that requires a different explanation (probably the mainland china one). But they are actually all higher than you would expect, one in 20 brits have a github account?? So its a good explanation for them all being higher
Also a lot of workers in Honk Kong live in the other side of the border. Many of those accounts may be from mainland Chinese workers.
China uses HK VPNS so they can connect to Western internet (because of the firewall of China) Also using software devs per population and calling it a software hub is kind of a dumb take. If everyone in Iceland was a programmer you wouldn't call it the programming hub of the world when California has three times Icelands population in just software engineers alone but they make up a small fraction of California population.
It is per 100 population. As the other comment mentioned, the subtitle says "accounts" rather than unique users for that very reason, I can't account for people using multiple accounts, VPNs, etc.
With a population of 7.3 million that would be 1.8 million accounts? A very quick internet search says about 70k people in Hong Kong work in software development in Hong Kong and that the entire IT industry only makes up 3.7% of GDP. These figures don’t match up,
Yes, it's 1.83m accounts [as per GitHub's own numbers](https://innovationgraph.github.com/economies/hk). The data doesn't specify whether these are unique users, just the number of accounts.
As other commenter mentioned, a large portion of the hokgkong and Singapore accounts are likely VPN mainland China users
I wonder how many teachers get their classes to submit homework assignments via github. I would totally pull that stunt if I was a teacher. Self-grading assignments ftw, no-pasaran my class if CI doesn't pass on a pull request.
Totally, the amount of accounts means nothing. I used to have up to 6 accounts when i was doing courses and making challenges for different companies when I was trying to change jobs. The thing is, you hide the repos, but if you need all of them simultaneously, you are screwed.
GitHub is banned in China mainland and many developers in China will need to use Hong Kong as a landing zone to the Internet. That might be the reason why the dev count is inflated.
Singapore too. Many chinese vpn users use Singaporean IP.
Why? Why not HK or Japan or whatever closer to them?
HK and Japan are also popular. Not sure why Japan is not showing up on the chart though.
Japan probably has too much population for it to distort it as much.
So why choose Singapore when there are closer alternatives (better ping) like Japan, Korea and HK?
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> as it's closer to 20 000km. 20,000 km is half the circumference of the Earth. It's the distance between Shanghai and Buenos Aires.
Singapore has a very significant (ethnically) Chinese population, might be the reason
Why would that matter? Do you know what a VPN is? It's not a house.
Webseites default location to language settings is what i had in mind, why so passive aggressive? I'm just trying to rationalize the phenomenon
And what do you think Singapore website's default language is?
I don't know about banned, but most developers use Gitee anyways.
That and Hong Kong is essentially a high tech city state. Single out “San Francisco” or “Berlin” on the chart and they’d be pretty high too.
I don't disagree, it's just hard to justify Hong Kong ranked even higher than Singapore
Looks like you have a case of the GIGOs, as both Hong Kong and Singapore are smurf jurisdictions for China and SEA countries.
This tells us the number of people who forget their password most often.
What’s your data source please?
Hey, the data is from [here](https://innovationgraph.github.com/).
Thank you!
Github accounts in a country ≠ number of develpoers in that country.
Both Hong Kong and Singapore numbers are largely skewed by the VPN users based in China as GitHub is intermittently blocked by the firewall or has very slow connection from China.
Why'd they use Singapore as their VPN location? Genuinely curious
I think it is relatively close geographically, and good internet infrastructure makes it ideal for VPN providers to have lots of available connections there.
What if I have multiple GitHub accounts? I’m still only one dev.
If India is not on here I don’t believe this list. No way Iceland has more devs than India.
You forget India has a huge population of 1.4 B and this is per 100 people
Also, India has large non-services sector, such as agricultural or manufacturing. The top 2, Singapore & Hong Kong, are islands with economies focused on services. That probably includes VPNs, which heavily skews the resident to account ratio. One household is a single bachelor who's a software dev. The other household is a large extended family of 18, with 9 members in software dev. It's 100% vs 50%, but come on; The 2nd household is probably more of a "software development powerhouse".
Good catch. I didn’t see the per 100 population
It's per 100 people, of course that is why Iceland is so high up(●'◡'●)
If you do this for Bangalore which is 2x Hong Kong's population, you might actually get over 25% lol
this is incredibly meaningless, this just indicates the popularity of Github in general, most companies like to keep private repositories in Europe and therefore avoid shitty Microsoft products
I'm interested to see what China's GitHub alternative is, and how many accounts there are. Apparently Gitee has 30 million but idk if that's the biggest or only alternative there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitee This is the most popular chinese code hosting service based on git. Its website says 12 million registered users as of now.
Yeah I saw. Seems super low for a developing economy of 1.4 billion people. I think another person was right, the HK numbers are inflated with mainlanders VPNing past the great firewall.
There’s quick a few Chinese code hosting services, so it’s not as concentrated as GitHub overseas (but there’s bitbucket and others too..) Also I guess not as much developers are doing open source work in china too.. Edit: and yeah the HK and SG numbers are 100% propped up by VPNs.
Funnily in the past month I have had developers from 4 countries on the "upcoming" list send me Google Drive links to code instead of GitHub repos.
Interesting that Estonia is so high. Wondering if its people from Russia like people from China are using Hong Kong and Singapore VPNs. Israel, Ireland, Nordic countries and Canada and US make sense though
Lol Hong Kong a "software hub"? I wish... Like its economy would be in a much better shape if tech is even a thing there.
Now adjust this for % urban population
Now do San Francisco. Hong Kong is a city state
The claim Hong Kong is a VPN hub has more truth than the misleading claim of it being a development hub.
Why tf are there so many devs in Iceland? Is it some sort of target destination for remote workers?
Oh no Indians are missing from the list where majority of the software codes are delivered. Next time post original data instead of fake
So.. what this graph is saying is that people in PRC are using a VPN in Hong Kong and Singapore instead of a VPN in the US or other free country to create their GitHub accounts. Also, Hong Kong is not a nation, as much as it would like to be.
Okay, now do the same statistic for London, New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco and see how they compare to the city states.
There's no city-level data, I'm afraid.
Yes, comparing city states to regular countries isn't very meaningful.
Billions of Muslims and not even one Muslim country...
**Article**: [SAMIZDATA](https://blog.samizdata.co/p/russias-tech-brain-drain-in-numbers) **Data**: [GitHub Innovation Graph](https://innovationgraph.github.com/) **Tools**: R **Methodology**: [GitHub](https://innovationgraph.github.com/methodology)
😂🤣😂🤣 the only thing they develop is something that the US already made
If you see neither US nor China in such a chart, you know that stats means nothing 😃
The US is in the chart.
Sorry we Americans just assume if we're not at the top something is wrong with the chart.