Mine are Built to Last or Object of Obsession. Not both together, though. For killer, it's Shattered Hope.
Most trials I don't bring items, so BtL isn't ideal unless I start rummaging. I don't bother because I'll probably find a broken key.
OoO is becoming tolerable. When your aura is revealed, pray the killer always has their back toward you, is distracted in a chase, or work on a gen where your butt isn't sticking out. Or fake the direction you're going and do a U-turn. Worst case is to go hide in a locker (eww).
And again last night I had OoO. I was wondering why I couldn't see the killer's aura and wasn't the obsession. Turns out a Gabriel in the match \*also\* had OoO and was immediately tunneled out by a Blight. Unfortunate for him, which also nullified that perk slot in my build.
I get no mither self care together often ....but the worst is scene partner and object of obsession and youre the obsession. I cant do anything cause i scream anytime i see Killer, and he can see me like every 3 seconds.
I mean, in one vein, yes. In another, it feels rather improbable that I’ve gotten bloodpact 6+ times among several games with 2+ no mither survivors and yet still haven’t gotten over ten perks.
There are a few survivor perks I’ve never seen at all.
The odds are surprisingly generous on a mathematical scale.
Getting any specific perk is a 1/140 + 1/139 + 1/138 + 1/137 odds, or 0.0288827486317605 (2.8%)
Multiply that by 4 Survivors, and the odds of seeing any specific perk is above 10%.
No Mither just has appearance bias, because it's the only perk that is instantly obvious to all players at the start of a game.
I would be curious to see any compilation of data on this game mode ! Has anyone done it already?
My initial theory was that the perk pick rate in this game mode was inversely proportional to the pick rate in the normal one. But seeing your maths, I believe you are right and we are just overreacting
Honestly, this modifier has made it clear that No Mither needs to be reworked or updated. I get players sometimes use it as a hard mode perk, but the high-risk high reward doesn't even work when killers know from the start of the match that you have it.
Like, sure, it's nice to be able to pick yourself up from the dying state at any point, but considering it's the only perk that leaves you broken at the start of the match no killer in their right mind would leave you on the ground long enough to pick yourself up.
Yeah, I've even so far as intentionally left people with it down on Chaos games where the survivors are doing poorly just so the poor guy could get some use from it.
its a 3% chance to appear for each survivor weirdly enough in my duo SWF my friend gets it all the time its been 5 times now over the course of about 15 games which is like 33% rate but I have never gotten it once.
It's freaking weird, but every game I've had no mither in I've escaped. (it was only twice so far.)
That said, randomness has some clumping naturally but no mither sticks out so much and is so obvious that it's just easier to notice it than any other perk.
They gave me no mither and self care 😭😭😭The killer wouldn’t stop chasing me. My other perk was a gen perk and an obsession perk.
But my obsession teammate killed themselves on hook for me. And I got hatch so somehow that worked out.
I dont believe its truly random. Played around 30 games a few nights ago and got the exact same build 2 times, and really only saw the same 20 perks over and over again. Desperate measures, head on, small game, self care, up the ante, and urban evasion were the most common and each showed up 10+ games.
I believe the randomness of Chaos Shuffle is not completely random. For most people, they usually get repeated perks once the perks had already shown up at least once in their builds.
I’m tracking the numbers of survivor perks In my matches, only seen no mither 2 times in 15 games. This is compared to reassurance, tenacity, clairvoyance, and dance with me all at 5.
No Mither
Autodidact
Hyperfocus
Detective's Hunch (four matches today, got it four times straight).
I don't mind getting these perks but there's so many more perks to try out that I feel like I'm missing out.
It's the one Perk that is absolutely completely noticeable when you have it. The chances are small but compared to some weak Perk this disappointment of a thing just ruins your life.
I get Potential Energy, Red Herring and Boon:Dark Theory the most, but I see a lot of other folks with No Mither. I wonder if it's just because it's so obvious though, because otherwise I'm never even looking at what other people get assigned.
It doesn't really, it's simply the perk that all players notice right at the start of the game. For instance you probably didn't count how many times a survivor in your lobby had bond, because it isn't a noticable or hugely impactful perk.
Also negativity bias is a big factor, games where you or a fellow survivor got no mither are more likely to be remembered.
I had 4 No Mithers in one session earlier in the week (in one game two of us had it!). Don't think any of them ended well. Saw one this morning on another teammate and the Nemmy decided to turbo tunnel them out of the game and still almost lost lol.
I GOT IT 3 GAMES IN A ROW 😭😭😭
I’ve also had a game where 3 of my teammates were broken & one of them straight up left. I don’t usually endorse DC’ing but I kinda understand that one. Who in the right mind wants to be broken 😭
I luckily haven't gotten it a single time. Every session with my friends I say "reminder that I still haven't gotten no mither" and they say I just sealed my fate that day for saying that... But still not mither-less :)
and here i am celebrating everytime i got it, only got it 2 times. i got it more doing the challenges that give you random perks. I like when it gives you more niche perks. kick and meta perks when playing are so boring to still get in the mode. i hope if they did this mode again they randomize your items and add ons too.
That's called selective bias. You're far more likely to notice when that perk's in play because it has a greater impact on the game despite the perks still being 100% random
It shows up as often as any other perk, trust me. You may not notice all the times you've been given Reactive Healing or Boon Dark Theory because they doesn't affect your gameplay nearly as much.
Please explain the concept of a "bad" random number generator. I might be stupid, but that sounds like it doesn't make sense to me.
Like I get what "bad RNG" implies, but it's still legit RNG.
Technically, any RNG in a virtual game isn't truly Random, it's just a pre-detirmined string of numbers that it refers to. I think it's like impossible for anything to truly be technically classed as random in computers. I know that's not what this guy meant by "Bad" random number generator, but it's interesting enough to note he's kinda not wrong lol
That's very interesting. I just did some other reading and saw that sometimes games will use the computer's clock as the seed, or something similar. I wonder if you'd get the same loadout if you joined a trial at the same time every day...
Or better yet, if it's a specific time of day or sequence of numbers that is giving everyone the no perks bug 😂
If anything, it'd be seeded to the number of 'ticks' since the epoch beginning, so includes the day as well.
Its a very complex subject, but off the top of my head things that could screw up the distribution :
* bad seeding - as you noted the seeds to the random number generator might be poorly thought out or manipulateable. There are even Mario Maker levels that use this because its random number gen is seeded based on your controller inputs making it so a level is only completeable if you held right while entering a specific pipe.
* The generator is bad - there are tons of examples in early games, but not all generators are made equally. Generally the 'better' the random generation the more expensive it is to run performance wise so sometimes people take short cuts here. Generally this means things like once you see a few numbers or actions generated then you can perfectly predict its next result or there is a bad distribution of results like certain numbers are over or under generated.
* Improper Usage of the results - a lot of random generators are actually producing a fractional number between 0 and 1, and multiple by a number to generate a range between 0 and X. I've seen some programs that used bad rounding where the highest or lowest numbers could never actually come up or it would double or half the odds of the numbers at the ends being generated.
I feel so naive after reading this and the comments above regarding RNGs. I guess I never really considered how a computer would actually go about generating a random number and how it could be fallible. Thank you.
I just disconnect when I get no mither. The 3 games I played with no mither it's just a tunnel directly off hook scenario. I'll save myself the mental sanity and just have a bot get tunneled and scroll tiktok for the 1-5 minute matchmaking timer.
I’ve gotten Red Herring way too many times to make sense
Oh same here! I've had that perk about 9 times, it also keeps showing up. Also the perk that shows your/other's scratchmarks
Yesss I’ve been getting Lightweight a lot too
Make that 10 times, literally just had a game with red herring now, after making my comment
At least with this one you see the killers aura when a survivor loses a health state too
That's two different perks. Your own Scratch Marks is Nancy's Fixated, others is Haddie's Inner Focus
I’ve had 9 Object of Obsessions as survivor, appearing twice in a row two times
Mine are Built to Last or Object of Obsession. Not both together, though. For killer, it's Shattered Hope. Most trials I don't bring items, so BtL isn't ideal unless I start rummaging. I don't bother because I'll probably find a broken key. OoO is becoming tolerable. When your aura is revealed, pray the killer always has their back toward you, is distracted in a chase, or work on a gen where your butt isn't sticking out. Or fake the direction you're going and do a U-turn. Worst case is to go hide in a locker (eww). And again last night I had OoO. I was wondering why I couldn't see the killer's aura and wasn't the obsession. Turns out a Gabriel in the match \*also\* had OoO and was immediately tunneled out by a Blight. Unfortunate for him, which also nullified that perk slot in my build.
I get no mither self care together often ....but the worst is scene partner and object of obsession and youre the obsession. I cant do anything cause i scream anytime i see Killer, and he can see me like every 3 seconds.
This sounds awful 😭 i wanna try
I got No Mither, Self Care, Scene Partner and Urban Evasion one round. Pfft.
I just got No mither, and scene partner against a trickster 
I swear the odds are not even for perks, I see way too much of some of them and never see others. But most likely it's just my luck.
That makes sense, it'd be more weird if you saw each perk evenly
I mean, in one vein, yes. In another, it feels rather improbable that I’ve gotten bloodpact 6+ times among several games with 2+ no mither survivors and yet still haven’t gotten over ten perks. There are a few survivor perks I’ve never seen at all.
Personally, I wish I made a list of the perks I encountered. Ah well, next time the event rolls around ig
For me it's Bloodrush, i like the idea of the perk and i would've loved to use it, but the game never gives you an exhaustion perk with it.
They gave me blood rush with no mither and 0 exhaustion perks last night. Useless build, but a fun game nonetheless.
The odds are surprisingly generous on a mathematical scale. Getting any specific perk is a 1/140 + 1/139 + 1/138 + 1/137 odds, or 0.0288827486317605 (2.8%) Multiply that by 4 Survivors, and the odds of seeing any specific perk is above 10%. No Mither just has appearance bias, because it's the only perk that is instantly obvious to all players at the start of a game.
I would be curious to see any compilation of data on this game mode ! Has anyone done it already? My initial theory was that the perk pick rate in this game mode was inversely proportional to the pick rate in the normal one. But seeing your maths, I believe you are right and we are just overreacting
Honestly I’d rather that than the screaming Nicholas perk I keep getting 😭
Scene partner....i get that with object of obsession all the time. So killer sees and hears me all game basically.
I’ve been cursed with it every other match. I don’t think I’ve had my usual perks once. 🥲
I got it like 4 times. It SUCCKKSSSS
Honestly, this modifier has made it clear that No Mither needs to be reworked or updated. I get players sometimes use it as a hard mode perk, but the high-risk high reward doesn't even work when killers know from the start of the match that you have it. Like, sure, it's nice to be able to pick yourself up from the dying state at any point, but considering it's the only perk that leaves you broken at the start of the match no killer in their right mind would leave you on the ground long enough to pick yourself up.
Yeah, I've even so far as intentionally left people with it down on Chaos games where the survivors are doing poorly just so the poor guy could get some use from it.
Hey, this perk actually saved my ass against a slugging Plague! :D Managed to be one of the two that escaped!
I think the least used perks might have been given a slight boost to be chosen in this mode
i get sceptic touch every match it feels
Same with rpd
its a 3% chance to appear for each survivor weirdly enough in my duo SWF my friend gets it all the time its been 5 times now over the course of about 15 games which is like 33% rate but I have never gotten it once.
As killer I had territorial imperative in 70% of my games.
Lmaooooo right. I got it twice in a row. 😂
I swear this perk is like a big sign that says tunnel me.
It's freaking weird, but every game I've had no mither in I've escaped. (it was only twice so far.) That said, randomness has some clumping naturally but no mither sticks out so much and is so obvious that it's just easier to notice it than any other perk.
They gave me no mither and self care 😭😭😭The killer wouldn’t stop chasing me. My other perk was a gen perk and an obsession perk. But my obsession teammate killed themselves on hook for me. And I got hatch so somehow that worked out.
Someone needs to start keeping track of their matches. I'm hearing about no mither a lot. I'm wondering if it shows up more than usual.
I think Distressing is biased up for Killers, too. Maybe Chaos Shuffle is secretly BHVR's way of increasing some usage rates to claim perks are fine.
I dont believe its truly random. Played around 30 games a few nights ago and got the exact same build 2 times, and really only saw the same 20 perks over and over again. Desperate measures, head on, small game, self care, up the ante, and urban evasion were the most common and each showed up 10+ games.
It's almost like the RNG for Dead By Daylight is somewhat flawed.
Once I got "no mither" or an "autodidact", I've won. There's nothing killer can do to change that
I keep getting Up the Ante.
What's worse is that you get three other healing perks. Every match of so I would get a survivor with this and healing perks.
Weird, haven't got it even once and none of the randos either xD
I keep getting dark sense
Shout out to when I got sprint burst dead hard. Self care and no mither
I got No Mither, Self Care, Scene Partner and Urban Evasion one round 
Blood rush combined with 0 other exhaustion. Cut loose. Item perk without the item. Every game
I played chaos shuffle last night for a couple of hours and got the MOST dogshit perks. Hahaha. Never playing that mode again.
I believe the randomness of Chaos Shuffle is not completely random. For most people, they usually get repeated perks once the perks had already shown up at least once in their builds.
Whenever a survivor gets NM, i always slug them at least once so they can get value
i got shattered hope 3 games in a row. i also got genetic limits at least 4 times. mind you this is only out of maybe 20 games
as killer its hoarder... every single time
I’m tracking the numbers of survivor perks In my matches, only seen no mither 2 times in 15 games. This is compared to reassurance, tenacity, clairvoyance, and dance with me all at 5.
Me getting blood pact for the 947293rd time
No Mither Autodidact Hyperfocus Detective's Hunch (four matches today, got it four times straight). I don't mind getting these perks but there's so many more perks to try out that I feel like I'm missing out.
I get Fixated an abnormally high number of times. And Scene Partner enough that I’ve kind of figured out how to use it to my benefit finally.
It's the one Perk that is absolutely completely noticeable when you have it. The chances are small but compared to some weak Perk this disappointment of a thing just ruins your life.
skill issue
your whole life is a skill issue
im joking dw
No mither, empathetic connection, lucky star, bloodrush... Some games my team has 2-3 empathetic connections! What is it with that perk?
No mither is bad enough by itself but when the game gives me plot twist to go with it I just want to uninstall
I get Potential Energy, Red Herring and Boon:Dark Theory the most, but I see a lot of other folks with No Mither. I wonder if it's just because it's so obvious though, because otherwise I'm never even looking at what other people get assigned.
Got it with Scene Partner one match. Fun times
It doesn't really, it's simply the perk that all players notice right at the start of the game. For instance you probably didn't count how many times a survivor in your lobby had bond, because it isn't a noticable or hugely impactful perk. Also negativity bias is a big factor, games where you or a fellow survivor got no mither are more likely to be remembered.
I had 4 No Mithers in one session earlier in the week (in one game two of us had it!). Don't think any of them ended well. Saw one this morning on another teammate and the Nemmy decided to turbo tunnel them out of the game and still almost lost lol.
There shouldn't be any duplicate perks on survivor side.
I GOT IT 3 GAMES IN A ROW 😭😭😭 I’ve also had a game where 3 of my teammates were broken & one of them straight up left. I don’t usually endorse DC’ing but I kinda understand that one. Who in the right mind wants to be broken 😭
I keep getting fast track and im deff not complaining 👀
Surprisingly, I've only had No Mither once. Did not escape. Now pebble, on the other hand.... (I love pebble though)
I run this perk on basic, it's just like seeing an old friend
The amount of killers I’ve gone against that have Knockout is…. too much
I luckily haven't gotten it a single time. Every session with my friends I say "reminder that I still haven't gotten no mither" and they say I just sealed my fate that day for saying that... But still not mither-less :)
I got object of obsession 6 games in a row and got tunneled ever time.
and here i am celebrating everytime i got it, only got it 2 times. i got it more doing the challenges that give you random perks. I like when it gives you more niche perks. kick and meta perks when playing are so boring to still get in the mode. i hope if they did this mode again they randomize your items and add ons too.
\*me getting no mither for the 10th match in a row\* (for some fucking reason it always appears with 2 or more healing perks)
You've not been playing Chaos Shuffle you just forgot to change your loadout
I don't have no mither unlocked on any other survivor and i'm a mikaela main so I feel like the math ain't mathing there
16 rolls with up to 4 duplicates. math seems to be mathing
Same, except with knockout. I'm not gonna slug, I don't care how many times you give me the perk.
Luckily for my team I didn't get often. But their was at least in trial where - and listen... - TWO SURVIVORS got the broken perk.
Had it twice but was glad it wasnt paired with Selfcare
That's called selective bias. You're far more likely to notice when that perk's in play because it has a greater impact on the game despite the perks still being 100% random
It shows up as often as any other perk, trust me. You may not notice all the times you've been given Reactive Healing or Boon Dark Theory because they doesn't affect your gameplay nearly as much.
I know, it's just obviously more apparent given its status effects lol
Yes. You'd be surprised by how many people are posting that they think there's a pattern or that it's "not as random as we think".
To be fair, if your random number gen is bad it's very, very easy to get a bad distribution so some things come up unnaturally often.
Please explain the concept of a "bad" random number generator. I might be stupid, but that sounds like it doesn't make sense to me. Like I get what "bad RNG" implies, but it's still legit RNG.
Technically, any RNG in a virtual game isn't truly Random, it's just a pre-detirmined string of numbers that it refers to. I think it's like impossible for anything to truly be technically classed as random in computers. I know that's not what this guy meant by "Bad" random number generator, but it's interesting enough to note he's kinda not wrong lol
That's very interesting. I just did some other reading and saw that sometimes games will use the computer's clock as the seed, or something similar. I wonder if you'd get the same loadout if you joined a trial at the same time every day... Or better yet, if it's a specific time of day or sequence of numbers that is giving everyone the no perks bug 😂
If anything, it'd be seeded to the number of 'ticks' since the epoch beginning, so includes the day as well. Its a very complex subject, but off the top of my head things that could screw up the distribution : * bad seeding - as you noted the seeds to the random number generator might be poorly thought out or manipulateable. There are even Mario Maker levels that use this because its random number gen is seeded based on your controller inputs making it so a level is only completeable if you held right while entering a specific pipe. * The generator is bad - there are tons of examples in early games, but not all generators are made equally. Generally the 'better' the random generation the more expensive it is to run performance wise so sometimes people take short cuts here. Generally this means things like once you see a few numbers or actions generated then you can perfectly predict its next result or there is a bad distribution of results like certain numbers are over or under generated. * Improper Usage of the results - a lot of random generators are actually producing a fractional number between 0 and 1, and multiple by a number to generate a range between 0 and X. I've seen some programs that used bad rounding where the highest or lowest numbers could never actually come up or it would double or half the odds of the numbers at the ends being generated.
I feel so naive after reading this and the comments above regarding RNGs. I guess I never really considered how a computer would actually go about generating a random number and how it could be fallible. Thank you.
I just disconnect when I get no mither. The 3 games I played with no mither it's just a tunnel directly off hook scenario. I'll save myself the mental sanity and just have a bot get tunneled and scroll tiktok for the 1-5 minute matchmaking timer.