Good lord, he probably would have been a mess during the season of the Splicer. Hell, he probably would have been somewhat of an antagonist the same way Lakshmi was.
Honestly, I wonder how much easier it was to write the story without the Speaker in it.
Probably why they've killed him. His dogmatic view of the light and the Traveler would be too problematic for the "light and darkness are neutral forces of nature and none of these are inherently good or evil" narracy. Not to mention allying with the previously antagonistic races, like Eliksni or the Cabal. Though it would be funny to see him react to the Lucent Hive existence.
there IS a lore bit about the speaker being kidnapped by some fallen only for them to want to hear travellers teachings. They got titaned afterwards :/
Oof that breaks my heart. I know that a lot of people have a hard time believing that the people of the city have accepted Eliksni and Cabal into their territory, but as we learn that both are pretty tragic races, I think it’s easy to see how peace can come about. Likely the Eliksni felt we stole their Traveler, or that we would hoard it for ourselves. That isn’t a defense for all the murdering they’ve done, but not every enemy will always be an enemy. Eventually forgiveness usually happens.
ironically if the eliksni appeared and didnt attack us, we'd probably allow them to chill alongside us without issue, our fight against them was generally brought upon themselves
By the time the eliksni arrived, mankind was still largely disorganized and waging war against each other using the Light. I don't think there was ever a scenario where we could have been with peace with the eliksni when they first arrived.
Interesting is what it would've been, not problematic.
It would've delivered some interesting, nuanced and mature drama, much like we finally got to see from the Vanguard in TFS.
After not gaming on D2 for consistent dlcs, it's always annoying hearing about the bullshit stories they did for God damn LTMs/events.
Like I'm fucking aggravated that the factions were shit in D2. Was annoying as fuck when they dropped the coin currency. Ass holes...
Edit: you faggots just didn't spend your time wisely for faction wars I see lolololololol
So they remove an awful currency system that bloats your inventory and removes a deeply unpopular event with a good in game reason, and you're pissy about it? They didn't even remove them in an LTM or event... it was in a season
Ah. I wasn’t there for factions (joined right before beyond light) but I kinda wish they weren’t removed cuz in d1 they were fun, idk I wanna pledge allegiance to a faction and have special weapons and stuff lol
Honestly same but the way rallies worked was just poor, you did menial tasks for coins to give to your pledged faction to get items and it was so boring
Say what you will, but I'd rather have it than not. I'm a proud New Monarchy gal. They did Hideo dirty. Did them all dirty. Lore wise they were a big chunk of our support. Removing them like this was a mistake.
All the factions sucked ideologically. I'd rather see them replaced with better factions with more relevant political goals and give them a more interesting system.
Considering the times, they weren't far off.
FWC was preparing for war. Red War happened.
Dead Orbit long lost faith in the comatose Traveler- we're thr last safe city and at the time our enemies were closing in on us. Then Risen began using Darkness- a clear act of heresy. Zavala openly denied the DB fleets to leave because they made up 1/3rd of the city fleet.
New Monarchy wanted a new government with an absolute Monarch. Commander Zavala inherited the role of Defacto Prime Minister. His choice of leading saw him ignore the Consensus who were now hearing of Lightnearers wielding darkness and allowing war criminals pardons without their approval on the matter. We can openly admit Zavaka is a great Vanguard, but a horrible politician.
The Factions had nothing wrong with them in game and clear cut goals. Dev wise, they were replaced with Hawthorne who, by the way, us as neglected as they were. There are tons of wats to have developed new stories with them. They simply got lazy with them.
New Monarchy wanted us to focus our attention on Earth and the city specifically. They were against any idea of branching away and opening other settlements and this put them opposite to Dead Orbits ideology of leaving to settle somewhere else
I could write them better and with more intrigue honestly.
Following the end of the Red War, New Monarchy could focus on their want to resettle Earth. With House of Devils gone their Risen could lead expeditions to old ruins. Hell, could be made into a season and new location on Earth since we don't have the Farm anymore.
Dead Orbit could take to the jovial planets and colonize our outer planets. Again, could be made into an activity. Or we can help them set up their exodus!
Future War Cult could use Risen training their militia. Idk. I always hated FWC.
Bungie has a history of letting plotlines die. Hawthorne's whole thing was sticking up for the little guy. Being the liason for lightless folk and organizing clans. Yet she had zero anything to do with the Endless Night in Splicer nor Defiance where villages were being kidnapped from. She has a connection with Dev and even that languished in Defiance. Craziness.
They created her to replace Factions with Clans but didn't bother to make her important. She still runs the Red War voice lines.
I honestly hate her. I love Dev though. Gideon fan.
I really hope you know a lot of people are glad they dropped the coin system. Too much clutter and just another currency to worry about which wasn't helpful
It's funny how quickly people in-universe turned from
"hmmmm, these Void Lightbearers are kinda sus and Eris Morn is sus too"
To "Hell yeah, let's embrace the Darkness and let Eris become a literal Hive God".
It’s amazing how an existential threat makes you rethink your priorities, I guess.
Also like the Traveler was sealed, kidnapped (or suffered an attempt to kidnap it. It’s been a while), and was eviscerated by the Witness before they like, crawled inside it to hang out. So having a plan B for how to punch and shoot stuff real hard was in the common interest.
Relatively quickly considering how long light bearers have wielded void
But the malefactor of the collapse actually showing up kinda out ways "this might be Sus"
Funny how people are willing to adapt or accept change when faced with annihilation. It’s either accept these new powers that are currently keeping us alive or we all die. Even very dogmatic views will change, aka Zavala asking to learn stasis when losing targe.
I mean, is it really “dogma” when the biggest proponent for adopting the Darkness **was the Darkness itself**? Literally the only reason it turned out okay was because Elsie was caught in a Groundhog Day loop and had several lifetimes to master it.
It’s more so we realized that the “line between light and dark is so very thin”. They are both tools, and a tool can be used both for good and evil. It depends on the guardian and their will, wether that tool corrupts them or not. Our guardian showed that just because something has caused suffering does not mean it can’t be used to bring hope.
Mithrax is the embodiment of this. He caused SO much pain, but now has the ability to do so much good. Used to be a scourge to humanity, and is now one of our closest allies. Vanilla D2 he was a kill on sight fallen, now? Has the ability to be the Kell of kells and direct the Eliskni on a better path.
Yep. Even the lore text for Apotheosis Veil mentions this. Not really been touhed on in a while though as you can imagine.
> **Most helmets protect the mind from the universe. Not this one.**
> "There are those who see the Void as dark. It is the folly of the simple mind, unable to perceive the brilliant richness of nothingness. The Void is not only the absence of Light, but Dark. To harness the Void is to enter a state of tranquility, free from the clatter of ordinary matter.
> Wear this Veil and feel the Void. It is not a force of malice, no more charitable or heinous than gravity. The Void is a tool to be wielded by the patient, nothing more and nothing less. If you respect the Void, then one day you too shall step upon this pristine realm."
> —Unknown Voidwalker
In the base campaign when you had to unlock each subclass, the void hunter mission has a voice line from Cayde reminiscing about how people used to think void was the darkness, IIRC
>let Eris become a literal Hive God
The Hive God of Vengeance. Which is fitting for Eris.
Having 4 of her friends die to the Hive in Hellmouth, Eriana-3 dying to Crota, and Toland being a complete edge lord and turning to a ball of light.
Now that I think of it, wasn't Omar turned into a bug and "living" in the Exotic LMG Xenophage?
It's more
"oh my Traveller it the second Collapse quick grab anything we can use to save ourselves."
And the hive gaining the light did a massive blow to the light good darkness bad paradigm.
Because in-universe the Guardian community has the collective minds of edgy of edgy prepubescents who think evil is cool and good is dumb, that anyone who dares question anything they do is the REAL enemy and want to use the Sith lightning without any moral consequence.
Would be an interesting storyline. Speaker tries to exile us. Guardians back us up while Speaker Loyalists try to enforce the exile. A civil war happens then Gaul shows up and we reunite against a common enemy. Speaker gets killed in the process so no reason to continue the civil war after Gaul is dealt with.
Better explanation why a big ass fleet could just roll up. We didn't have the manpower to slow it down while fighting a civil war.
Well the actual lore explanation is that The Nine blinded us to allow Ghaul to get to Earth undetected. I think the reasoning was that they wanted to see if he could actually trap the traveler and steal light and use it like guardians could. But I know for sure if that didn’t happen we would’ve stopped them way before earth and would have attritioned him so hard he would’ve had to abort.
Both Saladin and Zavala were against the use of It
Though I think Saladin accepted the use of Darkness shortly after the rise of Lucent Hive, and much sooner compared to Zavala
Zavala was mostly accepting of it by the end of Beyond Light, that's the thing. He didn't *like* it, but he saw it was a powerful tool against the enemies of the City.
yeah, but he was still completely unwilling to learn it before he lost his ghost, even while advocating trusting the voices in the dark, which was WEIRD
yet he was still right, even after his actions in going ahead without targe ultimately are what got Targe killed.
It's *very* emotional Zavala writing, which has mostly been against character til this point.
Targe sacrificed himself, Zavala didn't force that.
>It's very emotional Zavala writing, which has mostly been against character til this point.
Eh, after Haunted we started seeing a lot more of an emotional character from him. Hell, even during base Witch Queen, we saw an angry Zavala for the first time in a very long time. Opening old wounds like happened in Haunted, seeing an old friend manipulated as Osiris was by Savathun, that tends to start making one a little more prone to outward emotion.
In my view, Saladin is more pragmatic than Big Z and basically went "well, if it's a tool that can help us against our enemies without harming us I'm all for it"
He also directly lampshades it in some Season of the Witch lore. He basically goes, “Haha I don’t mean darkness *subclasses* I mean the sort of philosophy that leads you to losing yourself in the *metaphorical* pit of darkness!”
Right? In our seven years of life, [we have done the following](https://www.destinypedia.com/Timeline#The_Young_Wolf.27s_Ascension):
1. In one week, we go from newly Risen to destroying the Black Heart.
2. The very next day? We break the Vex's control over the Vault of Glass.
3. The week after we're clearing out the highest paying Fallen bounties for the Awoken.
4. From December to January we learn of Crota and prevent his resurrection, then grant him a final death.
5. By mid-May we have put down the House of Wolves hard after their betrayal of the Awoken.
6. Within. Three. Days. In September, we've learned of Oryx, then killed him. Twice.
7. Two days later we're off beating back the SIVA and Splicer threat under Saladin's orders.
8. And on the 1 year, 1 month anniversary of our resurrection, we rested.
9. 11 months later, the Red Legion hits the city.
I'll let the timeline page I linked fill in the blanks of D2 but yeah, there's no way the Speaker would dare touch us.
this kind of reminds me of that one Drifter quest during beyond light where he threatens your life
like Drifter my boy I know you're a shady dude and all and you're probably not someone to be messed with but let's be real, you're not stepping to The Guardian
The Taken King and Siva happen a year apart. The Destiny in game calendar runs 1:1 with our calendar . A year between releases is a year between those events in game.
If they did their job right, I think the last Speaker would have agreed *eventually* that The Traveler and humanity wanted/needed to be defended by **any** means necessary. Which also includes using Darkness powers as a tool. But I do not think he'd agreed to it as easily as the Vanguard did.
I wonder if there is going to be a new Speaker. As far as I know, the last one was not the first Speaker. There's been multiple. They heard the call of the Traveler and understood/interpreted it's language in some way. They also were not necessarily Lightbearers. They just spoke for the Traveler.
The last Speaker certainly wasn't the best. Because in his time the Traveler was damaged and dormant. It hadn't spoken, moved or done anything for ages. It's hard to interpret something that just stays silent, so he just did what he thought was in the best interest of humanity and the Traveler.
Ironically it was after that he died that the Traveler finally woke up and eventually destroyed Ghaul. So nobody else than the Guardian and other Lightbearers were left to guess on what the Traveler wanted, which went on until the Final Shape DLC.
Right now, my best guess Micah is the closest to what the Speaker should have been.
Micah and Mithrax are the biggest candidates for speakers
Micah was a speaker before she became a guardian and seems to retain some of those abilities, but Mithrax is also able to be a speaker as shown when we collect feathers in the pale heart and he sees visions
Given Micah’s role and how she wasn’t chosen as speaker by others, or at least wasn’t interested in the role, I honestly think Mithrax is a good candidate
Given that Mithrax is pragmatic to the traveler similar to the last speaker, and that house of light is allied with the last city, it would make sense lore wise and narratively for him to become the next speaker. The first Eliskni speaker in a long time would be quite interesting indeed
I think what they meant is that Micah would’ve been a good speaker candidate even before being a guardian due to visions received by the traveler. Micah in lore has never actually had the official position of speaker though. However, she arguably the closest thing we have at the moment
She has never had “the official position of speaker” but she was a speaker. As in, she was able to receive visions from the traveler in the same way the speaker was able to. During the golden age, she was known as a dreamer. Dreamer would eventually evolve into the term “speaker”.
Oh I always thought that the term speaker referred to the specific position in tandem with the ability to receive visions.
I didn’t realize it was also a general descriptor for ANYONE who receives visions like that. the more you know.
That's true.
I also do not remember if she was ever brought up as a speaker candidate either. She just was known as 'the ghost shepherd' before. She guided ghosts without a guardian. The last Speaker also had ghosts like that to help him. (as you can hear in one of the ghost missions) But Micah did not stay in the Last City, she traveled around Earth with her ghost proteges to find them their own guardian.
I think because she hasn't been in the Last City nor in close contact with the Vanguard since the Red War; nobody thought about her capabilities as potential speaker.
She’s a Hunter. Given how canonically most Hunters avoided the City like the plague after Cayde’s death so they wouldn’t get roped up in the Vanguard position, she probably valued her personal freedom too much to be cooped up in the Tower and accept that level of responsibility.
There are dozens of sources on Micah-10 and I’m not going to read through every single source but [byf talks about this here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G6YNCumsXTs&t=467s)
Basically, Micah before the collapse was known as a “dreamer”, people who can receive visions and dreams from the traveler. These people would eventually become known as speakers. No, she was not chosen as “a speaker” in her past life. She was not a head priest who preached and ran a city. She was a little girl who was able to receive visions from the traveler
This makes her a dreamer/speaker. Let me reiterate, this does not mean she was chosen for a leadership position like The Speaker, she simply had the same powers as other speakers. That being the ability to receive visions and dreams from the traveler
So people that have these capabilities are known as *dreamers*.
And so a *dreamer* that is officially appointed to speak on behalf of the Traveler has the title of *Speaker*.
There should probably be a distinction between “speakers” as in folks naturally attuned to the Light and who pick up the Traveller’s messages as visions and dreams and Speakers as in the official role that rose to prominence as leaders following the Collapse. Every Speaker is a speaker, but not every speaker is a Speaker.
Well. I mean. Wouldn't the guardian, or like.. Crow technically be the next speaker? It directly contacted us. Many dreams and interpretations between the both of us. We are probably the only two it contacts regularly.
[There won’t be another Speaker. The time for Speakers as leading figures has passed, those who can hear will listen.](https://www.destinypedia.com/Radiant_Accipiter)
They’re 100% wrong. The Red War happened in Elsie’s timelines which means the Speaker would have died. The real point of convergence is the destruction of the Black Heart, Elsie teaching how to properly use Stasis and Eris getting therapy.
Do we know if the speaker dies in their red war though?
Also, I stand by my theory that since Zavala never grew a beard, we never had a chance to enter the dark timeline. It’s of the utmost importance to the time line that the vanguard remain bald until after the defeat of the Witness
The Traveler is good. We are chosen by the traveler, even after wielding darkness.
The Traveler is Sentient. It made its own choice to choose the hive.
The Traveler will save Humanity. It's not tolerating or approving things that would destroy humanity.
The Traveler Will Leave. A Guardian that loses their light is still a guardian.
No, I don't think we'd be getting yelled at.
Most of what we've done he would be against. He is definitely a more conservative leaning figure in the city. We would probably be exiled after learning stasis because we were one of the first. I think he would be opposed to the coalition. Osiris would still be in exile, even after losing Sagira (which begs the question of who Savathun would actually pretend to be to infiltrate the city). It would actually be interesting to see Osiris try to break time to find Saint and how the Speaker would react to that. Yeah, the story would be very different if he was still alive. Like, just the things that happen around Beyond Light would be completely different and change the story arc. Aunor is really the only major conservative figure we see right now in lore (tho there are definitely others in the city).
With everything we've done. Every rule we've broken, yeah, speaker would have kicked our asses to the curb a while back.
Bringing osiris back would have disappointed him.
Meddling with time to save saint-14. He would be massively conflicted but believe he would have the perspective of 'don't fuck with the natural order of things'
The drifter wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the tower without some kind of upheaval.
Guardians wielding stasis? Exiled.
Eris becoming a hive God? She always was shifty.
Allying with fallen and cabal who have hunted us for who knows how long at this point? Not on my watch.
Using a wish dragon? does it even need a response.
Those are just the few things I can remember off the top of my head but basicly every sesson we do something fucked up but because we are 'the guardian' people just sorta let it slide. We basicly have tower tenure.
Lmao I can just imagine:
Speaker: “You’re forever banished from the Last City”
Guardian: “Soooooooo… you sure you guys won’t need help on the next god I gotta kill next?”
Speaker: “What? There won’t be ano-…”
*gigantic ass spaceship containing random ass Hive God ready to blow up the Last City*
Speaker: “Fuck”
Zavala: Guardians will not meddle with the reef and hunt down Uldren
Guardian: I'm gonna go meddle with the reef and kill Uldren
Zavala: ... see you in a week
Yeah it's to the point we need a lore card about Ikora coming up with a contingency for the Guardian.
Maybe her discussing it with Saladin and saying they would need a team of Ikora, Shaxx, maybe Saint or something
Then it ends with them asking Ikora if she thinks they could win and the last quote being "I hope"
That actually sounds like a really interesting story they could tell. Kinda like DC's tower of babble. And, they have a sort of foundation for it they could say after osiris was replaced with savathun back during beyond light following that ikora and the the top members of the hidden came up with strategies to take down every major league guardian in case they ever turned against humanity.
The Speaker didn't exile Osiris because of his beliefs, he exiled Osiris because those who followed Osiris turned his *research* into "prophecies" and literally became a cult. That kind of nonsense is straight up dangerous. Toland was exiled because he was obsessed with an enemy race.
That and what Osiris was doing had a very negative impact on the Guardian community as he vilified the Traveller, got people killed chasing his theories and encouraged Guardians to shirk their personal responsibility to the City.
Eh, not really so much. That was way more the people who were following him than himself.
Vilifying the Traveler isn't "bad", either. There's plenty of reason to be upset with it.
He also didn't force anyone who chased his theories to do so. They did so of their own volition.
Also, no Guardian has a responsibility to the City. It's a *choice* to help.
The Speaker was an autocrat, a Supreme Ayatollah if you will. When he didn’t like the turn of events of the government beneath him, he would fall back on religious authority and say he spoke for the Traveler to get his way.
I'd like to think that The Speaker would have bonded well with the idea of Fallen and Cabal and Awoken cohorts. As long as they didn't pose a threat to the Traveler. And by all means Miisraaks and his splicers did form the House of Light. So they are as nice as nice gets. He probably would have been an issue with the Cabal, but I think, he either would have died or sacrificed himself in Saladin's stead, possibly.
I definitely think he would have been given a more antagonistic angle when the Guardians started wielding darkness. Maybe letting it slide with stasis, but Sever? Noooo no. Too far.
If they had kept him alive, it would be interesting for them to make him an antagonist later on by basically making him the Anti-Witness. He would be so devoted to the light that he becomes dogmatic and we would have to fight fanatics of him.
I can't look at The Speaker without seeing his voice actor: Bill Nighy. And, in doing so, I'm reminded of how his character in the movie Underworld reacted to a hybrid (vampire and werewolf) and that's leading an army against you to hunt you down and your girlfriend, who's like a daughter to him but only because she looks so much like the daughter that was killed by The Darkness.
well now we know that the darkness and light are neutral only given sides by who ever is using them. Lightbearers can be evil and dark users can be good. But without the witness anymore temptation can't happen in the darkness meaning darkness can be wielded safely. He might've been a little hesitant at first but soon give into the alliances as Mithrax has peak technology skills that the vanguard can't afford to lose and Empress Caital having one of the most powerful legions of Cabal and not attacking us would also be a very good thing to have. But also he is like the pope of a monarchy, he is above Zavala as he speaks for the traveller and can make shit up whenever. So he could easily make Zavala step down after he lost his light and resorted to using Stasis.
Speaker: "No, no, the Traveler spoke to me. Kill them all, even the babies. Actually, the Traveler just said to dunk the babies into a trash can like you do elemental orbs."
The speaker is like that grumpy boomer priest who may or may not be slightly racist, and hates progress like guardians wielding light and darkness together
He would die of a heart attack
Probably would’ve branded us as heretics and turned against us. I don’t think the Speaker would accept using the darkness in any form, or accept the face it is not I here to “evil”. But, that’s just my opinion.
I think saint might have brought him around but i think he would have been livid with osiris, Being tehicnically called saints father, I think he would have tore osiris a new one for losing him in the first place.
If anyone is going to be the next speaker, Mithrax says that he’s receiving visions from The Great Machine. It would further align The Last City with the Eliksni too
Hmm.... I'd probably say he'd will have a bit mix feelings about us wielding the darkness, but probably will have to accept it sooner. If somehow he was one of the survivers from the Witness and accepted to be a guardian. That would be either cool too as a twist, but then again there was a cutscene of him and zavala at the beginning of the last city.
I mean at some point he said that Osiris was right about The Vex and his theories. Now he would probably be something like Zavala in the Beyond Light to Witch Queen era, maybe at the point of Lightfall he maybe would see the truth about The Light and The Darkness and be a vision of Hope that Zavala lacked in that moment.
I don't see The Speaker being corrupted, even more now where we are seeing a lot of characters having visions.
Honestly could be a good concept for a season/episode if he was still around.
Something like "Season of the Zealot" or just "Season of the Speaker" lol.
The Speakers Dead, Toland The Shattered isn’t. Nuff said. 🗡️The Sword Logic. 🤷♂️
Toland The Shattered?
Great name beside the interpretation.
-⚔️Toland Knows What He’s Talking About!
He would definitely have an issue with me simping over Eramis, even when Eramis tells to stop simping. He would tell me to let it go, I would tell him to shove his words in his mouth.
Space Magic-Religous Political Racist Consevative and might change his views after some time. If he tries to exile me, I'll either Throne-Cleave his head, Stasis dodge, threadling-lightning punch or shoot him and take his Speaker's Sight to see if it's a better roll than mine.
Imagine if he would still be alive, and in one season this happens:
He sees us using the darkness calls us heretics and enemies of the traveler. But the vanguard tells him it's alright, so he moves away and starts his own legion of cultist guardians and we have to fight him, because he wants to comeback and 'purify' the vanguard from heretics
The Witness was destroyed by an entire army of five different species and at least thirteen Guardians and their Ghosts. Get outta here with that rhetoric, Sundaresh.
Good lord, he probably would have been a mess during the season of the Splicer. Hell, he probably would have been somewhat of an antagonist the same way Lakshmi was. Honestly, I wonder how much easier it was to write the story without the Speaker in it.
Probably why they've killed him. His dogmatic view of the light and the Traveler would be too problematic for the "light and darkness are neutral forces of nature and none of these are inherently good or evil" narracy. Not to mention allying with the previously antagonistic races, like Eliksni or the Cabal. Though it would be funny to see him react to the Lucent Hive existence.
there IS a lore bit about the speaker being kidnapped by some fallen only for them to want to hear travellers teachings. They got titaned afterwards :/
That was _a_ Speaker, but I'm not sure if it was _the_ Speaker, the one we knew. That Lore book spans several generations of Speakers, iirc.
Sauce pls?
Here you go: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/longing#book-constellations
Oof that breaks my heart. I know that a lot of people have a hard time believing that the people of the city have accepted Eliksni and Cabal into their territory, but as we learn that both are pretty tragic races, I think it’s easy to see how peace can come about. Likely the Eliksni felt we stole their Traveler, or that we would hoard it for ourselves. That isn’t a defense for all the murdering they’ve done, but not every enemy will always be an enemy. Eventually forgiveness usually happens.
It didn’t come easy. It took crippling all of the Houses and rendering them near extinct for some to go ‘wtf’s the point??’
ironically if the eliksni appeared and didnt attack us, we'd probably allow them to chill alongside us without issue, our fight against them was generally brought upon themselves
By the time the eliksni arrived, mankind was still largely disorganized and waging war against each other using the Light. I don't think there was ever a scenario where we could have been with peace with the eliksni when they first arrived.
They definitely didn’t help themselves with burning down London
That too, yeah
Same can be said regarding the lore of “Under Your Skin”.
damn that's a sad one :(
On a different tangent, the "singing" entry almost seems to allude to there being multiple speakers during the golden age simultaneously.
Interesting is what it would've been, not problematic. It would've delivered some interesting, nuanced and mature drama, much like we finally got to see from the Vanguard in TFS.
Assuming the speaker gets over with whats happening, he would've take over micah on TFS.
After not gaming on D2 for consistent dlcs, it's always annoying hearing about the bullshit stories they did for God damn LTMs/events. Like I'm fucking aggravated that the factions were shit in D2. Was annoying as fuck when they dropped the coin currency. Ass holes... Edit: you faggots just didn't spend your time wisely for faction wars I see lolololololol
So they remove an awful currency system that bloats your inventory and removes a deeply unpopular event with a good in game reason, and you're pissy about it? They didn't even remove them in an LTM or event... it was in a season
What is an LTM
Limited time mode
What was the deeply unpopular event they removed?
Faction rallies
Ah. I wasn’t there for factions (joined right before beyond light) but I kinda wish they weren’t removed cuz in d1 they were fun, idk I wanna pledge allegiance to a faction and have special weapons and stuff lol
Honestly same but the way rallies worked was just poor, you did menial tasks for coins to give to your pledged faction to get items and it was so boring
Sounds like it. I think it’d be fun to have a sort of guardian games thing and the factions had to “battle it out”. I just rly want factions back 🥲
[удалено]
I would have to argue a season is a LTM. You can’t go back and play it.
Say what you will, but I'd rather have it than not. I'm a proud New Monarchy gal. They did Hideo dirty. Did them all dirty. Lore wise they were a big chunk of our support. Removing them like this was a mistake.
All the factions sucked ideologically. I'd rather see them replaced with better factions with more relevant political goals and give them a more interesting system.
Considering the times, they weren't far off. FWC was preparing for war. Red War happened. Dead Orbit long lost faith in the comatose Traveler- we're thr last safe city and at the time our enemies were closing in on us. Then Risen began using Darkness- a clear act of heresy. Zavala openly denied the DB fleets to leave because they made up 1/3rd of the city fleet. New Monarchy wanted a new government with an absolute Monarch. Commander Zavala inherited the role of Defacto Prime Minister. His choice of leading saw him ignore the Consensus who were now hearing of Lightnearers wielding darkness and allowing war criminals pardons without their approval on the matter. We can openly admit Zavaka is a great Vanguard, but a horrible politician. The Factions had nothing wrong with them in game and clear cut goals. Dev wise, they were replaced with Hawthorne who, by the way, us as neglected as they were. There are tons of wats to have developed new stories with them. They simply got lazy with them.
New Monarchy wanted us to focus our attention on Earth and the city specifically. They were against any idea of branching away and opening other settlements and this put them opposite to Dead Orbits ideology of leaving to settle somewhere else
I could write them better and with more intrigue honestly. Following the end of the Red War, New Monarchy could focus on their want to resettle Earth. With House of Devils gone their Risen could lead expeditions to old ruins. Hell, could be made into a season and new location on Earth since we don't have the Farm anymore. Dead Orbit could take to the jovial planets and colonize our outer planets. Again, could be made into an activity. Or we can help them set up their exodus! Future War Cult could use Risen training their militia. Idk. I always hated FWC.
Bungie has a history of letting plotlines die. Hawthorne's whole thing was sticking up for the little guy. Being the liason for lightless folk and organizing clans. Yet she had zero anything to do with the Endless Night in Splicer nor Defiance where villages were being kidnapped from. She has a connection with Dev and even that languished in Defiance. Craziness.
They created her to replace Factions with Clans but didn't bother to make her important. She still runs the Red War voice lines. I honestly hate her. I love Dev though. Gideon fan.
I really hope you know a lot of people are glad they dropped the coin system. Too much clutter and just another currency to worry about which wasn't helpful
Wasn't better than what the fuck it turned into lol
why do you type like that lol
It's funny how quickly people in-universe turned from "hmmmm, these Void Lightbearers are kinda sus and Eris Morn is sus too" To "Hell yeah, let's embrace the Darkness and let Eris become a literal Hive God".
Everyone goes emo at some point in life, I suppose. XD
Considering guardians live for centuries, they probably go emo every 40 - 50 years
It's not a phase mom!
But do you have to paint your fingernails black, you know that upsets your father…
It expresses who I am!! Dad doesn't know the real me!!
I paint mine Superblack
It’s amazing how an existential threat makes you rethink your priorities, I guess. Also like the Traveler was sealed, kidnapped (or suffered an attempt to kidnap it. It’s been a while), and was eviscerated by the Witness before they like, crawled inside it to hang out. So having a plan B for how to punch and shoot stuff real hard was in the common interest.
It happened over the course of seven irl years.... So I'd about "quickly"
Relatively quickly considering how long light bearers have wielded void But the malefactor of the collapse actually showing up kinda out ways "this might be Sus"
Funny how people are willing to adapt or accept change when faced with annihilation. It’s either accept these new powers that are currently keeping us alive or we all die. Even very dogmatic views will change, aka Zavala asking to learn stasis when losing targe.
I mean, is it really “dogma” when the biggest proponent for adopting the Darkness **was the Darkness itself**? Literally the only reason it turned out okay was because Elsie was caught in a Groundhog Day loop and had several lifetimes to master it.
It’s more so we realized that the “line between light and dark is so very thin”. They are both tools, and a tool can be used both for good and evil. It depends on the guardian and their will, wether that tool corrupts them or not. Our guardian showed that just because something has caused suffering does not mean it can’t be used to bring hope. Mithrax is the embodiment of this. He caused SO much pain, but now has the ability to do so much good. Used to be a scourge to humanity, and is now one of our closest allies. Vanilla D2 he was a kill on sight fallen, now? Has the ability to be the Kell of kells and direct the Eliskni on a better path.
The vanguard are hundreds of years old. 7 years is like nothing
We don't know how much actual in-game time has passed.
It's pretty much a 1 to 1 with real time.
Wait, there’s lore about people being suspicious of void users?
Yep. Even the lore text for Apotheosis Veil mentions this. Not really been touhed on in a while though as you can imagine. > **Most helmets protect the mind from the universe. Not this one.** > "There are those who see the Void as dark. It is the folly of the simple mind, unable to perceive the brilliant richness of nothingness. The Void is not only the absence of Light, but Dark. To harness the Void is to enter a state of tranquility, free from the clatter of ordinary matter. > Wear this Veil and feel the Void. It is not a force of malice, no more charitable or heinous than gravity. The Void is a tool to be wielded by the patient, nothing more and nothing less. If you respect the Void, then one day you too shall step upon this pristine realm." > —Unknown Voidwalker
In the base campaign when you had to unlock each subclass, the void hunter mission has a voice line from Cayde reminiscing about how people used to think void was the darkness, IIRC
>let Eris become a literal Hive God The Hive God of Vengeance. Which is fitting for Eris. Having 4 of her friends die to the Hive in Hellmouth, Eriana-3 dying to Crota, and Toland being a complete edge lord and turning to a ball of light. Now that I think of it, wasn't Omar turned into a bug and "living" in the Exotic LMG Xenophage?
It's more "oh my Traveller it the second Collapse quick grab anything we can use to save ourselves." And the hive gaining the light did a massive blow to the light good darkness bad paradigm.
And then how quickly people forget that Mara's been sus since D1 and remains sus to this day despite her attempts at appearing to be an ally.
But she's hot so......
That logic is how I got trapped in a 6 year physically abusive relationship, lmao
AIAT!
Because in-universe the Guardian community has the collective minds of edgy of edgy prepubescents who think evil is cool and good is dumb, that anyone who dares question anything they do is the REAL enemy and want to use the Sith lightning without any moral consequence.
I wish his ass luck in exiling me
Would be an interesting storyline. Speaker tries to exile us. Guardians back us up while Speaker Loyalists try to enforce the exile. A civil war happens then Gaul shows up and we reunite against a common enemy. Speaker gets killed in the process so no reason to continue the civil war after Gaul is dealt with. Better explanation why a big ass fleet could just roll up. We didn't have the manpower to slow it down while fighting a civil war.
Well the actual lore explanation is that The Nine blinded us to allow Ghaul to get to Earth undetected. I think the reasoning was that they wanted to see if he could actually trap the traveler and steal light and use it like guardians could. But I know for sure if that didn’t happen we would’ve stopped them way before earth and would have attritioned him so hard he would’ve had to abort.
Imagine we would end up activating Rasputin to absolutely clap Ghauls cheeks
that’s the lamest, most boring reason they could’ve written, anything else would’ve been better lol
It was D2Y1 writing, I don’t think it was that good in general
Yeah I know.
He most likely would react like Zavala did, slowly coming to tolerate then accept them.
Wasn’t Saladin the person who was like most against us using darkness powers?
Both Saladin and Zavala were against the use of It Though I think Saladin accepted the use of Darkness shortly after the rise of Lucent Hive, and much sooner compared to Zavala
Zavala was mostly accepting of it by the end of Beyond Light, that's the thing. He didn't *like* it, but he saw it was a powerful tool against the enemies of the City.
yeah, but he was still completely unwilling to learn it before he lost his ghost, even while advocating trusting the voices in the dark, which was WEIRD
Because Targe was wary of it and Zavala was nothing if not respectful of Targe's wishes for the most part.
yet he was still right, even after his actions in going ahead without targe ultimately are what got Targe killed. It's *very* emotional Zavala writing, which has mostly been against character til this point.
Targe sacrificed himself, Zavala didn't force that. >It's very emotional Zavala writing, which has mostly been against character til this point. Eh, after Haunted we started seeing a lot more of an emotional character from him. Hell, even during base Witch Queen, we saw an angry Zavala for the first time in a very long time. Opening old wounds like happened in Haunted, seeing an old friend manipulated as Osiris was by Savathun, that tends to start making one a little more prone to outward emotion.
In my view, Saladin is more pragmatic than Big Z and basically went "well, if it's a tool that can help us against our enemies without harming us I'm all for it"
No, that’s Rahool. “Speak to me not of the dark, I want no part”
To be fair, that has been a line he's said since D2 vanilla
He also directly lampshades it in some Season of the Witch lore. He basically goes, “Haha I don’t mean darkness *subclasses* I mean the sort of philosophy that leads you to losing yourself in the *metaphorical* pit of darkness!”
"Give me my stasis rifle Rahool. Tell me its name."
Meanwhile he's cashing in on all of the engrams we gather from it.
Saladin during Season of the Chosen: WE SHOULD KILL ALL THE CABAL!
Based speaker response
If he tries to exile me I'm gonna exile his entire body to orbit with a single punch
Right? In our seven years of life, [we have done the following](https://www.destinypedia.com/Timeline#The_Young_Wolf.27s_Ascension): 1. In one week, we go from newly Risen to destroying the Black Heart. 2. The very next day? We break the Vex's control over the Vault of Glass. 3. The week after we're clearing out the highest paying Fallen bounties for the Awoken. 4. From December to January we learn of Crota and prevent his resurrection, then grant him a final death. 5. By mid-May we have put down the House of Wolves hard after their betrayal of the Awoken. 6. Within. Three. Days. In September, we've learned of Oryx, then killed him. Twice. 7. Two days later we're off beating back the SIVA and Splicer threat under Saladin's orders. 8. And on the 1 year, 1 month anniversary of our resurrection, we rested. 9. 11 months later, the Red Legion hits the city. I'll let the timeline page I linked fill in the blanks of D2 but yeah, there's no way the Speaker would dare touch us.
this kind of reminds me of that one Drifter quest during beyond light where he threatens your life like Drifter my boy I know you're a shady dude and all and you're probably not someone to be messed with but let's be real, you're not stepping to The Guardian
The Taken King and Siva happen a year apart. The Destiny in game calendar runs 1:1 with our calendar . A year between releases is a year between those events in game.
Just going off the timeline page
Timeline page doesn’t give the actual year, just the date as we don’t actually know what year it is in the Destiny world.
That flair though lmao
If they did their job right, I think the last Speaker would have agreed *eventually* that The Traveler and humanity wanted/needed to be defended by **any** means necessary. Which also includes using Darkness powers as a tool. But I do not think he'd agreed to it as easily as the Vanguard did. I wonder if there is going to be a new Speaker. As far as I know, the last one was not the first Speaker. There's been multiple. They heard the call of the Traveler and understood/interpreted it's language in some way. They also were not necessarily Lightbearers. They just spoke for the Traveler. The last Speaker certainly wasn't the best. Because in his time the Traveler was damaged and dormant. It hadn't spoken, moved or done anything for ages. It's hard to interpret something that just stays silent, so he just did what he thought was in the best interest of humanity and the Traveler. Ironically it was after that he died that the Traveler finally woke up and eventually destroyed Ghaul. So nobody else than the Guardian and other Lightbearers were left to guess on what the Traveler wanted, which went on until the Final Shape DLC. Right now, my best guess Micah is the closest to what the Speaker should have been.
Micah and Mithrax are the biggest candidates for speakers Micah was a speaker before she became a guardian and seems to retain some of those abilities, but Mithrax is also able to be a speaker as shown when we collect feathers in the pale heart and he sees visions Given Micah’s role and how she wasn’t chosen as speaker by others, or at least wasn’t interested in the role, I honestly think Mithrax is a good candidate Given that Mithrax is pragmatic to the traveler similar to the last speaker, and that house of light is allied with the last city, it would make sense lore wise and narratively for him to become the next speaker. The first Eliskni speaker in a long time would be quite interesting indeed
Micah-10 used to be a Speaker? Source?
I think what they meant is that Micah would’ve been a good speaker candidate even before being a guardian due to visions received by the traveler. Micah in lore has never actually had the official position of speaker though. However, she arguably the closest thing we have at the moment
She has never had “the official position of speaker” but she was a speaker. As in, she was able to receive visions from the traveler in the same way the speaker was able to. During the golden age, she was known as a dreamer. Dreamer would eventually evolve into the term “speaker”.
Oh I always thought that the term speaker referred to the specific position in tandem with the ability to receive visions. I didn’t realize it was also a general descriptor for ANYONE who receives visions like that. the more you know.
That's true. I also do not remember if she was ever brought up as a speaker candidate either. She just was known as 'the ghost shepherd' before. She guided ghosts without a guardian. The last Speaker also had ghosts like that to help him. (as you can hear in one of the ghost missions) But Micah did not stay in the Last City, she traveled around Earth with her ghost proteges to find them their own guardian. I think because she hasn't been in the Last City nor in close contact with the Vanguard since the Red War; nobody thought about her capabilities as potential speaker.
She’s a Hunter. Given how canonically most Hunters avoided the City like the plague after Cayde’s death so they wouldn’t get roped up in the Vanguard position, she probably valued her personal freedom too much to be cooped up in the Tower and accept that level of responsibility.
There are dozens of sources on Micah-10 and I’m not going to read through every single source but [byf talks about this here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G6YNCumsXTs&t=467s) Basically, Micah before the collapse was known as a “dreamer”, people who can receive visions and dreams from the traveler. These people would eventually become known as speakers. No, she was not chosen as “a speaker” in her past life. She was not a head priest who preached and ran a city. She was a little girl who was able to receive visions from the traveler This makes her a dreamer/speaker. Let me reiterate, this does not mean she was chosen for a leadership position like The Speaker, she simply had the same powers as other speakers. That being the ability to receive visions and dreams from the traveler
So people that have these capabilities are known as *dreamers*. And so a *dreamer* that is officially appointed to speak on behalf of the Traveler has the title of *Speaker*.
Pretty much
There should probably be a distinction between “speakers” as in folks naturally attuned to the Light and who pick up the Traveller’s messages as visions and dreams and Speakers as in the official role that rose to prominence as leaders following the Collapse. Every Speaker is a speaker, but not every speaker is a Speaker.
Well. I mean. Wouldn't the guardian, or like.. Crow technically be the next speaker? It directly contacted us. Many dreams and interpretations between the both of us. We are probably the only two it contacts regularly.
or if there was to be another speaker, it could be micah, seems that she's had quite a few visions from it.
[There won’t be another Speaker. The time for Speakers as leading figures has passed, those who can hear will listen.](https://www.destinypedia.com/Radiant_Accipiter)
Him dying is probably what averted the dark timeline
Actually, you’re probably not wrong, and I’m not sure how to feel about this
They’re 100% wrong. The Red War happened in Elsie’s timelines which means the Speaker would have died. The real point of convergence is the destruction of the Black Heart, Elsie teaching how to properly use Stasis and Eris getting therapy.
Do we know if the speaker dies in their red war though? Also, I stand by my theory that since Zavala never grew a beard, we never had a chance to enter the dark timeline. It’s of the utmost importance to the time line that the vanguard remain bald until after the defeat of the Witness
Whether or not the speaker died the convergence point was the black heart, the top commenter is just wrong.
The Traveler is good. We are chosen by the traveler, even after wielding darkness. The Traveler is Sentient. It made its own choice to choose the hive. The Traveler will save Humanity. It's not tolerating or approving things that would destroy humanity. The Traveler Will Leave. A Guardian that loses their light is still a guardian. No, I don't think we'd be getting yelled at.
Most of what we've done he would be against. He is definitely a more conservative leaning figure in the city. We would probably be exiled after learning stasis because we were one of the first. I think he would be opposed to the coalition. Osiris would still be in exile, even after losing Sagira (which begs the question of who Savathun would actually pretend to be to infiltrate the city). It would actually be interesting to see Osiris try to break time to find Saint and how the Speaker would react to that. Yeah, the story would be very different if he was still alive. Like, just the things that happen around Beyond Light would be completely different and change the story arc. Aunor is really the only major conservative figure we see right now in lore (tho there are definitely others in the city).
With everything we've done. Every rule we've broken, yeah, speaker would have kicked our asses to the curb a while back. Bringing osiris back would have disappointed him. Meddling with time to save saint-14. He would be massively conflicted but believe he would have the perspective of 'don't fuck with the natural order of things' The drifter wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the tower without some kind of upheaval. Guardians wielding stasis? Exiled. Eris becoming a hive God? She always was shifty. Allying with fallen and cabal who have hunted us for who knows how long at this point? Not on my watch. Using a wish dragon? does it even need a response. Those are just the few things I can remember off the top of my head but basicly every sesson we do something fucked up but because we are 'the guardian' people just sorta let it slide. We basicly have tower tenure.
i mean to be fair to everyone else, what the fuck can people even do against the player
Oh, absolutely nothing. Most likely the reason we've suffered zero consequences for everything we've done
Lmao I can just imagine: Speaker: “You’re forever banished from the Last City” Guardian: “Soooooooo… you sure you guys won’t need help on the next god I gotta kill next?” Speaker: “What? There won’t be ano-…” *gigantic ass spaceship containing random ass Hive God ready to blow up the Last City* Speaker: “Fuck”
This is sort of how we acted in Forsaken and the Speaker was dead. The player definitely throws their weight around, they are lucky we are good.
Zavala: Guardians will not meddle with the reef and hunt down Uldren Guardian: I'm gonna go meddle with the reef and kill Uldren Zavala: ... see you in a week
Yeah it's to the point we need a lore card about Ikora coming up with a contingency for the Guardian. Maybe her discussing it with Saladin and saying they would need a team of Ikora, Shaxx, maybe Saint or something Then it ends with them asking Ikora if she thinks they could win and the last quote being "I hope"
That actually sounds like a really interesting story they could tell. Kinda like DC's tower of babble. And, they have a sort of foundation for it they could say after osiris was replaced with savathun back during beyond light following that ikora and the the top members of the hidden came up with strategies to take down every major league guardian in case they ever turned against humanity.
Xivu Arath is still around, so that would be the “random ass Hive God”
The Speaker didn't exile Osiris because of his beliefs, he exiled Osiris because those who followed Osiris turned his *research* into "prophecies" and literally became a cult. That kind of nonsense is straight up dangerous. Toland was exiled because he was obsessed with an enemy race.
That and what Osiris was doing had a very negative impact on the Guardian community as he vilified the Traveller, got people killed chasing his theories and encouraged Guardians to shirk their personal responsibility to the City.
Eh, not really so much. That was way more the people who were following him than himself. Vilifying the Traveler isn't "bad", either. There's plenty of reason to be upset with it. He also didn't force anyone who chased his theories to do so. They did so of their own volition. Also, no Guardian has a responsibility to the City. It's a *choice* to help.
He would be like, "I could tell you what I think of the new subclasses, Guardian" and then proceed not to
There's a lot of jokes but they're all political
The Speaker was an autocrat, a Supreme Ayatollah if you will. When he didn’t like the turn of events of the government beneath him, he would fall back on religious authority and say he spoke for the Traveler to get his way.
If the speaker didn’t die in the Red War, seeing commander Zavala using stasis probably would have finished him off.
He'd shit himself
I'd like to think that The Speaker would have bonded well with the idea of Fallen and Cabal and Awoken cohorts. As long as they didn't pose a threat to the Traveler. And by all means Miisraaks and his splicers did form the House of Light. So they are as nice as nice gets. He probably would have been an issue with the Cabal, but I think, he either would have died or sacrificed himself in Saladin's stead, possibly. I definitely think he would have been given a more antagonistic angle when the Guardians started wielding darkness. Maybe letting it slide with stasis, but Sever? Noooo no. Too far.
If they had kept him alive, it would be interesting for them to make him an antagonist later on by basically making him the Anti-Witness. He would be so devoted to the light that he becomes dogmatic and we would have to fight fanatics of him.
When he would of seen Osiris he'd tell us to pack our shit and go
I can't look at The Speaker without seeing his voice actor: Bill Nighy. And, in doing so, I'm reminded of how his character in the movie Underworld reacted to a hybrid (vampire and werewolf) and that's leading an army against you to hunt you down and your girlfriend, who's like a daughter to him but only because she looks so much like the daughter that was killed by The Darkness.
well now we know that the darkness and light are neutral only given sides by who ever is using them. Lightbearers can be evil and dark users can be good. But without the witness anymore temptation can't happen in the darkness meaning darkness can be wielded safely. He might've been a little hesitant at first but soon give into the alliances as Mithrax has peak technology skills that the vanguard can't afford to lose and Empress Caital having one of the most powerful legions of Cabal and not attacking us would also be a very good thing to have. But also he is like the pope of a monarchy, he is above Zavala as he speaks for the traveller and can make shit up whenever. So he could easily make Zavala step down after he lost his light and resorted to using Stasis.
id like to see him fucking try
Speaker: "No, no, the Traveler spoke to me. Kill them all, even the babies. Actually, the Traveler just said to dunk the babies into a trash can like you do elemental orbs."
I mean they exiled Osiris for being gay. He’s going to demand execution. /s
Holy hell. I forgot about this guy! Destiny 1 and the beginning of Destiny 2 were a long time ago. Shit!
it wasnt that long ago, was it? *looks up d1’s release date* OW, MY HIP!
The speaker is like that grumpy boomer priest who may or may not be slightly racist, and hates progress like guardians wielding light and darkness together He would die of a heart attack
Probably would’ve branded us as heretics and turned against us. I don’t think the Speaker would accept using the darkness in any form, or accept the face it is not I here to “evil”. But, that’s just my opinion.
If Speaker woke up today, he'd drop destiny's first F-bomb in utter shock
We probably will be labeled as Corrupted in his eyes since he only believes Light is the true way, unless he comprehends the situation we are in
I think saint might have brought him around but i think he would have been livid with osiris, Being tehicnically called saints father, I think he would have tore osiris a new one for losing him in the first place.
I feel like he died for a reason like they at least semi planned it cause, yeaa, he'd probably have to turn into an antagonist if he saw us now.
Ngl but at one point I thought that Cayde-6 was gonna be the new Speaker but then I thought about how Ikora was technically the new Speaker already.
If anyone is going to be the next speaker, Mithrax says that he’s receiving visions from The Great Machine. It would further align The Last City with the Eliksni too
His mask's missing from zavala's office now
Probably because it’s been turned into a Warlock Exotic. That’s a cool detail.
Kinda funny how Cayde got a big funeral bust in the tower and nobody seems to gaf about the speaker.
Hmm.... I'd probably say he'd will have a bit mix feelings about us wielding the darkness, but probably will have to accept it sooner. If somehow he was one of the survivers from the Witness and accepted to be a guardian. That would be either cool too as a twist, but then again there was a cutscene of him and zavala at the beginning of the last city.
I think the Speaker would die of a heart attack when someone tells him the Hive are weilding the light now. "GUARDIAN! PURGE THE HERETICS!"
He would’ve had a failsafe at the start of this season moment, followed by a brain aneurysm and then stated dead forever
I mean at some point he said that Osiris was right about The Vex and his theories. Now he would probably be something like Zavala in the Beyond Light to Witch Queen era, maybe at the point of Lightfall he maybe would see the truth about The Light and The Darkness and be a vision of Hope that Zavala lacked in that moment. I don't see The Speaker being corrupted, even more now where we are seeing a lot of characters having visions.
I'm gonna lean into the Hamilton line here, about King Louis' head in basket. Uh, do whatever you want, I'm super dead.
I don’t think he could just come back and have enough pull or power to do anything other than voice an opinion tbh.
Back when factions and the consensus existed id say they would care, but now......
Honestly could be a good concept for a season/episode if he was still around. Something like "Season of the Zealot" or just "Season of the Speaker" lol.
Consider the Speaker’s mental state when Crow shows up. His brains would be dribbling out of his ears.
The Speakers Dead, Toland The Shattered isn’t. Nuff said. 🗡️The Sword Logic. 🤷♂️ Toland The Shattered? Great name beside the interpretation. -⚔️Toland Knows What He’s Talking About!
He would definitely have an issue with me simping over Eramis, even when Eramis tells to stop simping. He would tell me to let it go, I would tell him to shove his words in his mouth.
Think we would be exiled? HE would have been exiled for lying all these years.
Space Magic-Religous Political Racist Consevative and might change his views after some time. If he tries to exile me, I'll either Throne-Cleave his head, Stasis dodge, threadling-lightning punch or shoot him and take his Speaker's Sight to see if it's a better roll than mine.
Imagine if he would still be alive, and in one season this happens: He sees us using the darkness calls us heretics and enemies of the traveler. But the vanguard tells him it's alright, so he moves away and starts his own legion of cultist guardians and we have to fight him, because he wants to comeback and 'purify' the vanguard from heretics
My initial theory was that he wasn’t dead but he was actually the witness
[удалено]
The Witness was destroyed by an entire army of five different species and at least thirteen Guardians and their Ghosts. Get outta here with that rhetoric, Sundaresh.