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Total no of taxpayers between 50L-1Cr are 3.32L. How many of these are software engineers is everyone’s best guess.
https://preview.redd.it/54ce63bgx00d1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b8e41435dea7bd6860477282f1d8fb2edbc612c
man, i really didn't know the numbers are this less!! In a country with a workforce of around 500 million, not even half a million people earn 50 lpa to 1 cr. That's insane!!
well, maybe that's tax evasion. Or it could be because they don't even fall in the tax paying income level. If it's the former, i kinda don't blame the people though, we don't even receive the most basic of public services for the tax that govt charge from us. And forget about income tax and all that, everyone who buys some product or get some service in this country is indirectly paying some tax. Still, the basic govt services are close to nothing.
Indirect taxes are less than 50% of the total tax collected. This indirect tax collected is distributed over 1billion people (including the direct tax payers).
Direct taxes collected are a little over 50% of the total taxes collected, but it mostly comes from corporates and about 10L salaried employees.
So, please don't compare people paying GST with people paying direct tax. It is an insane level of burden just because so many people are not in the net. And the reason they are not in the net is because of vote bank politics (no tax on agricultural income being the biggest)
i wasn't going into those details, man. Heck, I don't even have proper stats and figures. My whole point was that, despite the fact that every citizen is paying some kind of tax, even the most basic public services are shit.
a local small business owner makes way more than this , but don't pay any taxes.
a pretty famous halwai in a city with good reputation makes more than 1cr i can assure of that
nobody pays taxes here in india expect salary people like us who have no choice beause its deducted at source.
Are there any engineers in tech who earn 1 cr a month salary? Like I saw ezsnippat(Neeraj Walia)podcast with prakhar ka pravachan and his aim is to earn 1 cr a month and he is currently earning 15-20 lakhs a month
So are there any engineers or developers in tech who are earning 50 lacs or 1 cr a month?
The majority would be white collar jobs. There are so many professions that can earn you a 50-60L salary, especially at senior roles. Most business people draw least salary or don’t even show income.
Nah dude , people out there with business and factories heavily outnumber white collar jobs in this earning bracket & don't show up in the tax payer graph above . They are expert at cooking books .
White collars just have no good way to hide their income if they are salaried employees . If you own a software company then even at 10 Cr per year you can get away with zero tax .
> 90% of these are in business related profession
a business that earns 1cr doesn't pay taxes. its all shown as business expense.
I know people who own coaching institutes and pay 5-6 lakhs of tax entire year, imagine their income.
the only people who pay tax is service people who have it deducted at source
its actually way more than that. 30% is the bracket. once you go above 2cr you paid 25% surcharge.
for salaries like these a big chunk comes from the stocks which are taxed at 38-42%
and this is just income tax, then you pay indirect taxes.
its day light robbery from govt with nothing to show for it
And we don't have proper transparency where do they use all the tax money on...
We recently daw Political donations are totally opaque not even transparent.
>for salaries like these a big chunk comes from the stocks which are taxed at 38-42%
Woah, what the heck? Seriously? Why are stocks taxed that much separately? Aren't they a form of the entire annual income with the overall tax slabs being applicable altogether?
Can I ask you something?
Why has the market become so lopsided in expectations?
This kind of weird expectations will kill the joy of problem solving even before people become proficient? What’s up with this? Those of us who know how these numbers work don’t speak up, and the rest assume these are normal numbers?
Have we banned ourselves from speaking truths because there is no money to be made there?
Why is the default expectation 50 lakhs a year? I mean do we even understand that the government actually maintains a list of individuals whose net income is over 1 Crore? If the above is assumed true, what percent of people who be at next of 50 lakhs per year in true fixed cash component? Of which how many would be under 5 years of work-ex?
On top of this there are other assumptions which I can’t even state and will definitely get me cancelled.
Why does everyone suddenly believe they deserve 50 lakhs cash just out of college because of some newspaper clippings?
Cause tech companies have a high profit margin.
They reach billions of people and most valuable input is probably human capital.
A skilled engineer should demand more, that’s how our country would get rich.
Three things here:
1. For companies who are reaching billions of users literally, sure, however there is a difference between a builder and a maintainer, so I am guessing some relative difference there
2. For the other 99.9% of the companies, how would it work?
3. You are sort of right from the point of view of just labour, but not all labour is created equal, as much as we would want to believe this to be true
Also I was asking the question to Stackway on an overall larger context, I do get your point of view for the companies you mentioned OP.
If one is a contractual employee for a foreign company. He will pay income tax on half of his income most likey specially if he is earning below 1CR. So this doesn't really give the full picture.
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nah, she's using our competing offer technique, but in this case they don't have to provide proof of the offer so they can bullfit whatever they want to
You will never know the real numbers, but If you want a true estimate, go look at the publicly available data of percentile incomes of Indians given by governments and financial organizations. Trying to estimate other things like your post is just a waste of time. Instead, focus on your own goals.
I personally know over a dozen people making between 40-60 LPA for less than 5-6 yoe as full stack developers. NONE of them have helped me for even an entry-level developer job, all of them have ghosted me, few had even blocked me but later unblocked and stopped talking.
>NONE of them have helped me for even an entry-level developer job, all of them have ghosted me, few had even blocked me but later unblocked and stopped talking.
What do you do to them?
there's no point in posting on reddit, there's no point in commenting on a post, there's no point in replying to a comment on a post. Instead , focus on your goals.
I can go on lol
I have 7 friends out out which 1 is founder of a company(earning more than 60lpa but it's not salary so won't be counted) 1 is doing PhD. 4 are earning more than 60 LPA. So out of 8 4 are in your bracket. I think the numbers of such engineers will be greater than your estimation.
Edit: None of them are working of US contracts. Companies they are working in are Indeed, Intuit, Microsoft, AMD
Your numbers are extremely skewed.
I know more than 100 Indian software engineers personally (colleagues from current company and old companies, college mates, neighbors, cousins and their friends etc.) and only 3 of them make more than 60 LPA
Segregate them into years of experience, it will give better idea. Also, I pointed out only about friends because I can be sure that they sare saying truth about their salary and all of them will have similar yoe.
In your case what you think how many of them are revealing their actual salary (Cousins, Neighbors, colleagues).
Earning 60 lpa is not that easy but if you have certain yoe and have in depth knowledge then it will be easier.
haha, this is not true, don't worry mate, the total estimate combined won't be more than 10K. It looks rosy from the outside but the overall CTC has too many components so not everyone has 60 take-home. Contract workers make good money but not 60+
Few Engineers in FAANG are minting money and others are compensated well but not everyone is earning above 60K- Total workforce of engineers in these companies is around 20K and according to your data everyone is 60+
Nothing, he's not my type. Diego Sans is. Diego sans makes me jealous I wish I was his husband 💁♂️.
You asked how Ambani make you feel? Abhi ye toh mention nhi kiya in terms of financial conditions or relationship
(*>∇<)ﾉ
+1 L6 numbers are way off, it wouldn't be more than 5k, I would say about 1500 for msft if you include everyone who's L63+ in IDC and MSR. Other orgs pay very low.
FYI - you've to factor lot of engineers working in support as well in msft, amzn.
To add to this, it's only the L6+ (Amazon Eq) Tech people who are making this in FAANG. The non-tech managers and program managers don't make this much.
nope. people assume only some successful startups or faang pays like this. there are many non faang that pays like that.
eg servicenow, salesforce, nvidia, **my company** and it goes on
I think you are extremely overestimating it.
People earning over 1 cr nation wide, the number is around 2 lakh. This includes everyone. Now 1 cr is not 60lpa but can act as a reference number.
Google India L6 annual comp (actual money pre tax) starts at ~1.5cr.
Also account for engineers working in HFT and quant firms, or strats role at companies like GS. They pay much more than FAANG.
I believe OP has compared mismatched levels across orgs. An L4 in Amazon is equivalent to an L3 in Google (pay slab wise).
So a Google L6 would be an Amazon L7 and would be a Principal Engineer/Sr. PMT/Sr. SDM etc.
To your point about HFTs and Quant firms, there aren't a lot of them based out of India. I'd say less than 30-40 that actually make that kind of money. On top of that, they don't employ a lot of people. Graviton for ex has a headcount of about 250 people, and Quadeye has less than 150 people. And even there, a few of them are support staff who do not get paid as much. In totality, the number would not be more than a few thousand for this sector.
+1
I don't there is a single company in India where there are even 1000 people earning 1cr+, except for few like Amazon, Google, Salesforce and Microsoft, the number would be less than 100 for most companies.
Although total number of companies where ICs or level 1/2 managers get 1cr+ would easily be around 50.
What's the point of this lol and are you taking the fixed part or including esops etc. Cuz if it's the latter, there will be around 150 from my college 🤡
Esops don't always work the way u assume. Companies don't directly offer esops for u to sell. U should buy them at a strike price/discount. Also, it would have been great if u mentioned that the numbers u posted include esops bcz some innocent souls assume that it is inhand pay
He means RSUs. And you do get them every quarter, bi -yearly or annually to sell. So they are part of your salary. You can hold on to them though if your company stock is doing very well!
ESOPs are what you can further spend from your salary to again buy your company stock. It is normally 10-20% of your base salary and you get stocks at like 15% discounted price. Since it’s your own money it’s not extra salary like you said. I can tell you many companies now offer major chunk of your salaries as RSUs and in many cases they are like 2X to 4X of your base salary. That’s what stock market has done in last 2-4 years!
Asking for a friend, obviously.
Works on US payroll. So it's more than 64L per anum. Salary gets credited to family members NRE account. Family member then NEFTs it to friend's account as caregiver-money/gift.
Tax implications ?
YES! You are completely discounting a lot of large MNCs who are not paymasters but will pay pretty good for good talent.Add easily around 50-60K to it.
OP sorry to burst your bubble, but you don’t need to reach L6 in Amazon/Google/Uber/Msft/LinkedIn to earn more than 60, L6 is Senior Staff/Staff engineer roles & they easily earn around 1.5 crores in these companies. Even L3-L4 with 3-4 yoe are earning > 60 lpa 😅
Yes, most of my friends who are in UK hardly save any money, I have discussed this over with so many of my friends in Europe & currently, we save more than them. The salaries are at par, but the lifestyle is costlier there. They are in Europe/UK for travel not for saving as they say (All of them are in good companies Amazon/booking/bloomberg) , if you want to save, go to USA. Otherwise if you are a good dev, you can easily enjoy a luxurious life in India & still save so much.
Can confirm. I've done the Math. Even though you earn much more in those countries, your living expenses rise even more sharply.
For a person spending ~30k per month in India, to have an equivalent standard of living, they will have to spend ~$1500 (USD). And a 30LPA standard of living equivalent is >$120000 which is not as common as people think. Add loneliness, culture shock, distance from family etc to the mix and it soon becomes a disincentive once your making over a certain amount. If you plan on retiring in the US, it's going to be very expensive. But if your main goal is to go to the US, work a few years there, make bank and then come back and retire, that's a good idea in theory but a lot of factors such as children, marriage etc also come into play.
Why I am here?
* I am able to save over 50 Lakhs a year, I am lving a bit frugally here, sure, but the quality of life here is too high
* WLB is amazing, I've got plenty of time to learn tennis, get a philosophy diploma, etc.
* The tech team here is great, they're skilled and learning is high.
* I plan on moving back to India after a few years, maybe after an MBA from abroad.
Loneliness is an issue, I was able to find a gf here, but since she left, it's been lonely here :(
But I believe that would have been the case in Bangalore as well.
Most of my friends who are having around 8-10 years experience as a backend/frontend developers are earning around 50-75 LPA in Bangalore. So number should be very high
Number is way larger than your estimates. You are underestimating it. Specially in point 3, there many American and European companies which are giving more than 60lpa. Check like JP Morgan, Goldman, Morgan Stanley, arcesium and many more. List is too long and it will be much more than MAANG numbers because here number of companies are very large and number of employees too
Spot On OP.....
This is like the 30-40K techies in Silicon Valley boasting of Million$ packages. Most Techies I know in the Valley are *scraping by* with $150-200 K....
The 1/2-1 Million-$ package is still Urban Myth among American techies... just like a 50LPA+ package is back in Bengaluru.
This is going to be the topic of my next Vlog... want to add your views there? ;-)
There's a difference b/w 60 LPA salary and CTC.
Even in big companies, the salary will be lesser... CTC gets inflated with RSUs, which are not taxable unless gains are realized.
60 LPA salary folks would be less. 60 LPA CTC folks would be significant.
RSUs are taxed not only on realisation of gains, but also on vest. But yeah, I get your point, especially about RSU - CTC inflation. Orgs advertise CTC including RSUs which vest over 4 years and not in the first year itself.
Earlier, this was shared by me on official numbers with sources. It's been a quiet time since these numbers, so feel free to update this in a new thread to show people ground reality.
Urging mods to keep these kind of information pinned or archived so we can actually strengthen community and have a productive workforce. There are so many talents who hardly get opportunities, and then there are so many people with nil productive outcomes working on critical infrastructure in industry.
The more brains, the better and more accurate research will be there :
https://www.reddit.com/k8rcjdu
It seems the thread is deleted from reddit, so quoting it here :
========= Quoted Comment from 2023 =========
Let's take a reality check - Have a look at official data : https://incometaxindia.gov.in/Documents/Direct%20Tax%20Data/ITD-Time-Series-Data-FY-2013-14-to-2022-23-Table-No-1.7-and-1.8.pdf
We do have a 142.86cr population as far as I remember. Out of those, approximately 56% are effective workforce, i.e... 80cr (Source : https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1966154).
So, as far as we know, there are approximately 80cr workforce alone in the country. As per ITR data, this year, 7.4cr ITRs were filed. That's like 10.81% total workforce, so it is safer to assume most of the work population is under the lowest slab of 3lpa.
Now, let's talk about those 7cr, which also includes companies and individuals. Let's take a look at the breakdown ( As of July 31st, 2023 - no further refs available, comment if you know better https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1944821) :
Individual tax payers (ITR-1 + ITR-3) : 3.33cr + 75.40lakh = 4.08cr people who either have filed nil or paid some sort of taxes, which is about 2.85% of total population or 5.1% of total workforce filed ITRs.
Now let's talk about the IT industry ( Newer Date reports may add more but no real way to verify this )
Employment: 50.4lakhs ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/320729/india-it-industry-direct-indirect-employment/)
Revenue In GDP : 7.5% of total Indian GDP, i.e., 245B usd ( 19.84 lakh cr. - yes thats significant amount produced by just actual 30L IT workers supporting rest of industries ) https://www.statista.com/statistics/320776/contribution-of-indian-it-industry-to-india-s-gdp/
How many people are in the above pay grade?
See RTI and press releases responses and link context, as direct data will never be available ( More official data links are welcome, as this data may not represent full breakdown )
https://incometaxindia.gov.in/Lists/Press%20Releases/Attachments/1164/Press-Release-Direct-Taxes-Data-shows-improved-Taxpayer-compliance-dated-26-10-2023.pdf
The response states that Bottom 25% payers (below taxable <5lpa but still filed nil returns ) represent 58% gross income, (i.e. 1.02cr People ), Top 1% represents 42% of gross income > 30% bracket ( about 4 lakh people), Rest ( about 3cr) falls under various slabbut are not much contributing or significant enough to dent that percentage. It also states that average income has increased, but when you compare it to the whole workforce, it is a fraction of total reality.
Facts aside, this is how I see things around : The data is of whole nation, all industries. IT industry is subset of that economy. It employees around 30lakh engineering grads ( apart from that are HRs & management staff that doesn't really count tbh) on average, out of which about 60% ( again, my perception with interacting employees of different MNCs varying in standards when consilting tech problems. Not factual data, as those in need are already incompetent enough to dig their graves that they require external help ) are incompetent in one or other way. We don't cater to a world-class environment for the industry. There are far better standards out there, and risks involved increase with that, companies wants to play safe, keep sticking on old tech, don't want to change, etc. The recent demand isn't bad, it forces cleaning in industry, darwinism would apply, and fit candidates would survive. But what about hype? What about false impression? What about newbies working in production environment have far more responsibilities than they should have? Our so called experienced leads don't have answer for that or wants to risk quality over quantity to make things cheaper. Jugaadu nature doesn't apply everywhere.
The perception of this has become an eco chamber in forums. Yes, there are individuals who get paid high at the cost of their time and their skillset. Average salaries are whatcis paid unless you're an exception.
So, answer to OPs question : if you consider 20-30 lakh people everyone, your answer is yes. If you consider whole workforce, answer is no.
Average workforce salary was about 20k as of last survey, which arabds out with ITR filed data, so sample quality on average is good enough to portray whole picture.
Source : https://mospi.gov.in/sites/default/files/publication_reports/AR_PLFS_2022_23N.pdf
I'm not saying high salaries are bad, it's just economy doesn't rhyme with it. There are many factors, one of the most thing is people falsifying salaries based on location. If they are not living in India, their 30k usd would still look like 24lpa package or double of that. People talk about CTC but they don't say if they got joining bonus of rest of the component and how much is actually in hand salary after all deductions. New comers think they get all the perks, guess what they are same as your neighbours or distant cousin who tends to exaggerate alot to hide reality.
If you're competent enough you'd make out, don't focus on money if you wsnt to survive in this highly changing industry. You'll learn new thing every day and even when you die, you wouldn't know the whole CS concepts. The hard cold fact is alot folks in this industry runs after money and not problem solving skills and burn out evetually. Those who focuses on concepts build up their strengths every day, and money comes naturally as you're able to solve more and more provlems.
Social media / forums where you don't know other people boost confirmation bias, makes you assume things, boosts beliefs. That's one way of seeing things. On other hand you can use information to productive use, that's upto you.
Sadly my reply would be buried under countless comments. But I really hope it educates readers eho made this far about the intricacies of Indian Economy and our industry.
P.S. Another eco chamber: https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/s/sWRGhFm8lZ
I worked with a Mid-size startup (US based) last year. The CPO and CTO both (indians) for some reason were using same CA/firm. I came to know indirectly from them that they were paying max ONLY 1-4% as tax. Btw their salaries were in 1.5-1.8 Cr. So, first of all here are many more people earning more than 50 LPA, they are just good at hiding themselves. Many surveys and research companies don't have access to salaries of the people, they just try to reverse guess the salaries from total tax paid amounts - the data which gets leaked continuously from IT department for some unknown reasons. hmmm
I was getting 50 LPA till march 2023. It was a small gig of 4 months, and then company weirdly started firing everyone. In short time by March 2023 they have fired almost 60% of their employees. After that it has been a struggle, all the jobs on portals specially have been paywalled, means you cannot see genuine jobs on portals like naukri, monster/fountit and even others. If you have hefty subscription only then probably you get access to right ones but still you will have to search for genuine ones. Most of the friends and colleagues I knew are working on almost 50-60% slashed salaries now a days. They are in pathetic state cause of max 30% hike nonsense (unethical practice ONLY in India), they are stuck now at lower salaries and don't know If they will be ever able to reach their past peaks. All were manager positions, I guess some of them are working as Tech leads, Tech managers.
Are there any engineers in tech who earn 1 cr a month salary? Like I saw ezsnippat(Neeraj Walia)podcast with prakhar ka pravachan and his aim is to earn 1 cr a month and he is currently earring 15-20 lakhs a month
So are there any engineers or developers in tech who are earning 50 lacs or 1 cr a month?
Then some storage companies pay upwards of that range in Bangalore for senior engineers. You can also add Broadcom, Nvidia(because the stock shot up) into the list.
Yes, you are only looking at tech. Lot of engineers don't work in tech.
For that, you need to look at GCCs (Development Centres) of these companies. Just as an example :
1. 20k developers work in JPMC India : [https://www.fortuneindia.com/long-reads/what-drives-india-as-gcc-hub/115291](https://www.fortuneindia.com/long-reads/what-drives-india-as-gcc-hub/115291)
2. Fresher Salary itself is 18 LPA for JPMC 9SDE-1 equivalent)
There are 1600 GCCs in India and 1.6 Million people work in these GCCs.
This would be difficult because folks who are also freelancing on the side, they might have registered a sole-proprietorship on any of their family member's name. Hence the earnings might be divided into half or some proportion like that.
My take home pay this year is over 60LPA (pre tax). I work for a US based product company not mentioned here. There are a lot of companies that pay similarly. The numbers will be much larger than what you estimate.
I am an SDE 2 with 3 years of experience
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Total no of taxpayers between 50L-1Cr are 3.32L. How many of these are software engineers is everyone’s best guess. https://preview.redd.it/54ce63bgx00d1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b8e41435dea7bd6860477282f1d8fb2edbc612c
man, i really didn't know the numbers are this less!! In a country with a workforce of around 500 million, not even half a million people earn 50 lpa to 1 cr. That's insane!!
Out of 50 cr workforce only <10 cr do income tax filing. That is the big question
But all the developers in corporate job would obviously be paying
well, maybe that's tax evasion. Or it could be because they don't even fall in the tax paying income level. If it's the former, i kinda don't blame the people though, we don't even receive the most basic of public services for the tax that govt charge from us. And forget about income tax and all that, everyone who buys some product or get some service in this country is indirectly paying some tax. Still, the basic govt services are close to nothing.
Indirect taxes are less than 50% of the total tax collected. This indirect tax collected is distributed over 1billion people (including the direct tax payers). Direct taxes collected are a little over 50% of the total taxes collected, but it mostly comes from corporates and about 10L salaried employees. So, please don't compare people paying GST with people paying direct tax. It is an insane level of burden just because so many people are not in the net. And the reason they are not in the net is because of vote bank politics (no tax on agricultural income being the biggest)
i wasn't going into those details, man. Heck, I don't even have proper stats and figures. My whole point was that, despite the fact that every citizen is paying some kind of tax, even the most basic public services are shit.
a local small business owner makes way more than this , but don't pay any taxes. a pretty famous halwai in a city with good reputation makes more than 1cr i can assure of that nobody pays taxes here in india expect salary people like us who have no choice beause its deducted at source.
revenue or net profit?. Coz no way a small business or a halwai makes 1 cr in net profit in a year
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I know it’s hard to hear but ours is a dirt poor country for the most part.
That's unfair man. 50LPA in India is still a very high package.
Is it insane really?
yeah...i mean i said it in my comment.
Yepp
At least it's growing
Are there any engineers in tech who earn 1 cr a month salary? Like I saw ezsnippat(Neeraj Walia)podcast with prakhar ka pravachan and his aim is to earn 1 cr a month and he is currently earning 15-20 lakhs a month So are there any engineers or developers in tech who are earning 50 lacs or 1 cr a month?
Whats mad is only 1.96L peoples with more than1Cr income pay taxes, I'm pretty there are WAYY more people who earn like this
way way more.
90% of these are in business related profession. Out of remaining I wonder how many will be engineers
The majority would be white collar jobs. There are so many professions that can earn you a 50-60L salary, especially at senior roles. Most business people draw least salary or don’t even show income.
my father who is neither a SE or a business man makes more than 50lpa.
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CA,CS, IB, VC's, VP, Senior managers, MBA's, doctors etc
Nah dude , people out there with business and factories heavily outnumber white collar jobs in this earning bracket & don't show up in the tax payer graph above . They are expert at cooking books . White collars just have no good way to hide their income if they are salaried employees . If you own a software company then even at 10 Cr per year you can get away with zero tax .
> 90% of these are in business related profession a business that earns 1cr doesn't pay taxes. its all shown as business expense. I know people who own coaching institutes and pay 5-6 lakhs of tax entire year, imagine their income. the only people who pay tax is service people who have it deducted at source
Business ones are thief.
What are the tax deductions in this bracket? What does 50L-1Cr mean for in-hand salary?
3 months in-hand goes to govt.
Close to 4.5 months. 30% would itself be close to 4 months, add surcharge over 50, and it would easily be 5, but let's keep it at 4.5
Woww
its actually way more than that. 30% is the bracket. once you go above 2cr you paid 25% surcharge. for salaries like these a big chunk comes from the stocks which are taxed at 38-42% and this is just income tax, then you pay indirect taxes. its day light robbery from govt with nothing to show for it
And we don't have proper transparency where do they use all the tax money on... We recently daw Political donations are totally opaque not even transparent.
>for salaries like these a big chunk comes from the stocks which are taxed at 38-42% Woah, what the heck? Seriously? Why are stocks taxed that much separately? Aren't they a form of the entire annual income with the overall tax slabs being applicable altogether?
Can I ask you something? Why has the market become so lopsided in expectations? This kind of weird expectations will kill the joy of problem solving even before people become proficient? What’s up with this? Those of us who know how these numbers work don’t speak up, and the rest assume these are normal numbers? Have we banned ourselves from speaking truths because there is no money to be made there? Why is the default expectation 50 lakhs a year? I mean do we even understand that the government actually maintains a list of individuals whose net income is over 1 Crore? If the above is assumed true, what percent of people who be at next of 50 lakhs per year in true fixed cash component? Of which how many would be under 5 years of work-ex? On top of this there are other assumptions which I can’t even state and will definitely get me cancelled. Why does everyone suddenly believe they deserve 50 lakhs cash just out of college because of some newspaper clippings?
Cause tech companies have a high profit margin. They reach billions of people and most valuable input is probably human capital. A skilled engineer should demand more, that’s how our country would get rich.
Three things here: 1. For companies who are reaching billions of users literally, sure, however there is a difference between a builder and a maintainer, so I am guessing some relative difference there 2. For the other 99.9% of the companies, how would it work? 3. You are sort of right from the point of view of just labour, but not all labour is created equal, as much as we would want to believe this to be true Also I was asking the question to Stackway on an overall larger context, I do get your point of view for the companies you mentioned OP.
And all of them are concentrated in 3-4 metros
If one is a contractual employee for a foreign company. He will pay income tax on half of his income most likey specially if he is earning below 1CR. So this doesn't really give the full picture.
Most people who do remote high pay..have their company setup. So it won’t be in individual filling
Can you link the source please
[https://twitter.com/anshgupta64/status/1688021995248926720](https://twitter.com/anshgupta64/status/1688021995248926720)
I am sure there are a lot lot. Because each of the girl on the matrimony app tells me she is simultaneously talking to a guy who earns like that.
no, it's because the high package guys are simultaneously talking to hundreds of girls. same thing high demand girls do
But Ig most of the information on matrimonial qpps are fake to compete.
can confirm, girl's boyfriend here, Hope she and Ghanshyam get married so that she can finally buy me that PS5 i have asking for since last birthday.
Brooooo 😎
😂😂
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But why would ghanshyam marry her
I've been on matrimony for years, found one finally. Honestly dating and matrimony are quite different. Here both the genders suffer equally 😂😂.
Yeaa hence matrimony feels more equal lmao
You found one ?
I am earning > 60L but I am not talking to girls. Where are girls 😅
I am here, please ignore my username
1 cr base salary is like being 6 feet. One inch away from 5 11 but not getting any attention.
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I won't. Self-belief.
Why are u not talking to girls
Because the girls he would be interested in are on same salary level so its not a big plus. Story of everyone around me...
Guys having 1 cr take home base salary have one to many relationship with girls. They are like lions. They get all females of all the pack.
No lol
Looks matter as well. You think anant ambani can become a playboy?
nah, she's using our competing offer technique, but in this case they don't have to provide proof of the offer so they can bullfit whatever they want to
F
Then whybshe talk to u
Avoid such girls like the plague - those who flock towards high salary like flies and keep it as the major criteria.
How do they get such guys. I have no match.
Tu khud sundar aur sushil nahi hogi isiliye ni milre
Don't hit them with harsh truths like that.
Dude highly paid guys ko b ajkal high salary girl chahye hoti h.
Destroyed
Being in privileged communities or castes or pure luck
I will make it easy for you Do not count me
Okay bud -2
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Thala for a reason!
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Even L5s (SDE2s) earn 60+ in amazon, google, microsoft etc. Source: me, I am a L5 equivalent in other similar company.
Been working in amazon since 7 years, can confirm that L5's don't earn close to 60 even including RSU's.
My friend earns >60L in amazon, I was at 55L SDE 2 last year, now I'm in a different company at 58L, both of us are just below 6 YOE
Hey! Is your company hiring rn?
I don’t know. Check on careers page, will be happy to refer you.
You didn't mention the company :p
I can tell you in DM :p
L5 is not SDE2 at Google, it’s Senior Software Engineer, and they make upwards of 1 crore easy
Yes. You’re right. I wanted to write- mid level engineer or Amazon L5 equivalent roles that is L4 at google, ICT3 at apple and so on.
L5 is senior swe in G. It's a huge range which starts from l63 in ms till principal. And sde 3 in Amazon
Hi.I know about each company has different nomenclature for junior-mid-senior engineer role. I meant a mid level engineer.
Hey dude, for how long have you been working ?
Almost 6 years.
Can you refer me for a job? I am a Salesforce developer with AWS and mean stack experience. Overall 6 years exp. My last package was 7 LPA only
Get a life
thank you for saying this, i was not looking for this but this is a correct response.
Someone had to say it
You will never know the real numbers, but If you want a true estimate, go look at the publicly available data of percentile incomes of Indians given by governments and financial organizations. Trying to estimate other things like your post is just a waste of time. Instead, focus on your own goals. I personally know over a dozen people making between 40-60 LPA for less than 5-6 yoe as full stack developers. NONE of them have helped me for even an entry-level developer job, all of them have ghosted me, few had even blocked me but later unblocked and stopped talking.
>NONE of them have helped me for even an entry-level developer job, all of them have ghosted me, few had even blocked me but later unblocked and stopped talking. What do you do to them?
there's no point in posting on reddit, there's no point in commenting on a post, there's no point in replying to a comment on a post. Instead , focus on your goals. I can go on lol
What a waste of precious time. Instead try doing something useful. These stats don't help anyone let alone you.
Yeah, instead it makes us sad , here we are not even getting proper 6LPA & his talking about 60 😔.
I have 7 friends out out which 1 is founder of a company(earning more than 60lpa but it's not salary so won't be counted) 1 is doing PhD. 4 are earning more than 60 LPA. So out of 8 4 are in your bracket. I think the numbers of such engineers will be greater than your estimation. Edit: None of them are working of US contracts. Companies they are working in are Indeed, Intuit, Microsoft, AMD
Your numbers are extremely skewed. I know more than 100 Indian software engineers personally (colleagues from current company and old companies, college mates, neighbors, cousins and their friends etc.) and only 3 of them make more than 60 LPA
Segregate them into years of experience, it will give better idea. Also, I pointed out only about friends because I can be sure that they sare saying truth about their salary and all of them will have similar yoe. In your case what you think how many of them are revealing their actual salary (Cousins, Neighbors, colleagues). Earning 60 lpa is not that easy but if you have certain yoe and have in depth knowledge then it will be easier.
haha, this is not true, don't worry mate, the total estimate combined won't be more than 10K. It looks rosy from the outside but the overall CTC has too many components so not everyone has 60 take-home. Contract workers make good money but not 60+ Few Engineers in FAANG are minting money and others are compensated well but not everyone is earning above 60K- Total workforce of engineers in these companies is around 20K and according to your data everyone is 60+
These kinda titles always makes me sad
Then how does Ambani make you feel?
Nothing, he's not my type. Diego Sans is. Diego sans makes me jealous I wish I was his husband 💁♂️. You asked how Ambani make you feel? Abhi ye toh mention nhi kiya in terms of financial conditions or relationship (*>∇<)ﾉ
You're overestimating it. I doubt it'll be at max 20k across India.
+1 L6 numbers are way off, it wouldn't be more than 5k, I would say about 1500 for msft if you include everyone who's L63+ in IDC and MSR. Other orgs pay very low. FYI - you've to factor lot of engineers working in support as well in msft, amzn.
To add to this, it's only the L6+ (Amazon Eq) Tech people who are making this in FAANG. The non-tech managers and program managers don't make this much.
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How many people are in Salesforce India? Even if you include everyone who's smts+, I don't think count would be that high.
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Exactly.
Qualcomm right?
nope. people assume only some successful startups or faang pays like this. there are many non faang that pays like that. eg servicenow, salesforce, nvidia, **my company** and it goes on
Exactly. A lot of non faang companies too pay in this range.
Bhai mai faltu 20LPA pe khush hota rehta. Yaha to race hi alag chal rhi
I think you are extremely overestimating it. People earning over 1 cr nation wide, the number is around 2 lakh. This includes everyone. Now 1 cr is not 60lpa but can act as a reference number.
Google India L6 annual comp (actual money pre tax) starts at ~1.5cr. Also account for engineers working in HFT and quant firms, or strats role at companies like GS. They pay much more than FAANG.
I believe OP has compared mismatched levels across orgs. An L4 in Amazon is equivalent to an L3 in Google (pay slab wise). So a Google L6 would be an Amazon L7 and would be a Principal Engineer/Sr. PMT/Sr. SDM etc. To your point about HFTs and Quant firms, there aren't a lot of them based out of India. I'd say less than 30-40 that actually make that kind of money. On top of that, they don't employ a lot of people. Graviton for ex has a headcount of about 250 people, and Quadeye has less than 150 people. And even there, a few of them are support staff who do not get paid as much. In totality, the number would not be more than a few thousand for this sector.
+1 I don't there is a single company in India where there are even 1000 people earning 1cr+, except for few like Amazon, Google, Salesforce and Microsoft, the number would be less than 100 for most companies. Although total number of companies where ICs or level 1/2 managers get 1cr+ would easily be around 50.
What's the point of this lol and are you taking the fixed part or including esops etc. Cuz if it's the latter, there will be around 150 from my college 🤡
Annual take home. So annual esops
Esops don't always work the way u assume. Companies don't directly offer esops for u to sell. U should buy them at a strike price/discount. Also, it would have been great if u mentioned that the numbers u posted include esops bcz some innocent souls assume that it is inhand pay
He means RSUs. And you do get them every quarter, bi -yearly or annually to sell. So they are part of your salary. You can hold on to them though if your company stock is doing very well! ESOPs are what you can further spend from your salary to again buy your company stock. It is normally 10-20% of your base salary and you get stocks at like 15% discounted price. Since it’s your own money it’s not extra salary like you said. I can tell you many companies now offer major chunk of your salaries as RSUs and in many cases they are like 2X to 4X of your base salary. That’s what stock market has done in last 2-4 years!
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> RSU's of blue chip companies that do not fluctuate amazon says hello, doubled in last year
NVDA has entered the chat
He meant RSU. You seem to have very limited knowledge on this.
Thats 27,000 crore or 3.27billion usd. Seems way low. There are probably more people living frugally.
Asking for a friend, obviously. Works on US payroll. So it's more than 64L per anum. Salary gets credited to family members NRE account. Family member then NEFTs it to friend's account as caregiver-money/gift. Tax implications ?
Not too familiar but TCS on such inward remittance is 20 percent above 7lpa. Plus gifts are taxable as income above 50k iirc
You can get TCS back after filing your ITR and gifts from relatives are not taxable.
Wow, how do I earn greater than 60 L ? Seems like a dream now, but will get there eventually 💪
You're forgetting the embedded group, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Nvidia. RTL engineers with10-15 make 60+.
salesforce, servicenow and many pbc easily give 1cr+ for senior folk
YES! You are completely discounting a lot of large MNCs who are not paymasters but will pay pretty good for good talent.Add easily around 50-60K to it.
OP sorry to burst your bubble, but you don’t need to reach L6 in Amazon/Google/Uber/Msft/LinkedIn to earn more than 60, L6 is Senior Staff/Staff engineer roles & they easily earn around 1.5 crores in these companies. Even L3-L4 with 3-4 yoe are earning > 60 lpa 😅
Seriously? You mean I can come back to India and save almost what I am earning here in UK(L5 at Amazon)?
Yes, most of my friends who are in UK hardly save any money, I have discussed this over with so many of my friends in Europe & currently, we save more than them. The salaries are at par, but the lifestyle is costlier there. They are in Europe/UK for travel not for saving as they say (All of them are in good companies Amazon/booking/bloomberg) , if you want to save, go to USA. Otherwise if you are a good dev, you can easily enjoy a luxurious life in India & still save so much.
Can confirm. I've done the Math. Even though you earn much more in those countries, your living expenses rise even more sharply. For a person spending ~30k per month in India, to have an equivalent standard of living, they will have to spend ~$1500 (USD). And a 30LPA standard of living equivalent is >$120000 which is not as common as people think. Add loneliness, culture shock, distance from family etc to the mix and it soon becomes a disincentive once your making over a certain amount. If you plan on retiring in the US, it's going to be very expensive. But if your main goal is to go to the US, work a few years there, make bank and then come back and retire, that's a good idea in theory but a lot of factors such as children, marriage etc also come into play.
Why I am here? * I am able to save over 50 Lakhs a year, I am lving a bit frugally here, sure, but the quality of life here is too high * WLB is amazing, I've got plenty of time to learn tennis, get a philosophy diploma, etc. * The tech team here is great, they're skilled and learning is high. * I plan on moving back to India after a few years, maybe after an MBA from abroad. Loneliness is an issue, I was able to find a gf here, but since she left, it's been lonely here :( But I believe that would have been the case in Bangalore as well.
People get 60Lac in salary?
Most of my friends who are having around 8-10 years experience as a backend/frontend developers are earning around 50-75 LPA in Bangalore. So number should be very high
Frontend with that range? These guys are the first one to get fired historically. Seems like a bubble
And solution for getting fired is to work on 5lpa?
40k is the number
now try to find number of engineers who are content and aren't cribbing LPA all the time :) don't count yourself in it though
Not me , this I know
Vb fan kkm
you are over estimating
I personally don't know anyone who is earning that much in salary, but according to my internet experience it seems common to earn that much.
I'd say triple this amount, quite easily.
Number is way larger than your estimates. You are underestimating it. Specially in point 3, there many American and European companies which are giving more than 60lpa. Check like JP Morgan, Goldman, Morgan Stanley, arcesium and many more. List is too long and it will be much more than MAANG numbers because here number of companies are very large and number of employees too
Spot On OP..... This is like the 30-40K techies in Silicon Valley boasting of Million$ packages. Most Techies I know in the Valley are *scraping by* with $150-200 K.... The 1/2-1 Million-$ package is still Urban Myth among American techies... just like a 50LPA+ package is back in Bengaluru. This is going to be the topic of my next Vlog... want to add your views there? ;-)
Yes.
There's a difference b/w 60 LPA salary and CTC. Even in big companies, the salary will be lesser... CTC gets inflated with RSUs, which are not taxable unless gains are realized. 60 LPA salary folks would be less. 60 LPA CTC folks would be significant.
RSUs are taxed not only on realisation of gains, but also on vest. But yeah, I get your point, especially about RSU - CTC inflation. Orgs advertise CTC including RSUs which vest over 4 years and not in the first year itself.
I see, didn't know that. I'm not getting them RSUs 🥹 My LPA is salary only 👀
U forgot quant bruh..
amazon L5 and Microsoft 62 total comp is >60LPA so maybe around >40K people
Earlier, this was shared by me on official numbers with sources. It's been a quiet time since these numbers, so feel free to update this in a new thread to show people ground reality. Urging mods to keep these kind of information pinned or archived so we can actually strengthen community and have a productive workforce. There are so many talents who hardly get opportunities, and then there are so many people with nil productive outcomes working on critical infrastructure in industry. The more brains, the better and more accurate research will be there : https://www.reddit.com/k8rcjdu It seems the thread is deleted from reddit, so quoting it here : ========= Quoted Comment from 2023 ========= Let's take a reality check - Have a look at official data : https://incometaxindia.gov.in/Documents/Direct%20Tax%20Data/ITD-Time-Series-Data-FY-2013-14-to-2022-23-Table-No-1.7-and-1.8.pdf We do have a 142.86cr population as far as I remember. Out of those, approximately 56% are effective workforce, i.e... 80cr (Source : https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1966154). So, as far as we know, there are approximately 80cr workforce alone in the country. As per ITR data, this year, 7.4cr ITRs were filed. That's like 10.81% total workforce, so it is safer to assume most of the work population is under the lowest slab of 3lpa. Now, let's talk about those 7cr, which also includes companies and individuals. Let's take a look at the breakdown ( As of July 31st, 2023 - no further refs available, comment if you know better https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1944821) : Individual tax payers (ITR-1 + ITR-3) : 3.33cr + 75.40lakh = 4.08cr people who either have filed nil or paid some sort of taxes, which is about 2.85% of total population or 5.1% of total workforce filed ITRs. Now let's talk about the IT industry ( Newer Date reports may add more but no real way to verify this ) Employment: 50.4lakhs ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/320729/india-it-industry-direct-indirect-employment/) Revenue In GDP : 7.5% of total Indian GDP, i.e., 245B usd ( 19.84 lakh cr. - yes thats significant amount produced by just actual 30L IT workers supporting rest of industries ) https://www.statista.com/statistics/320776/contribution-of-indian-it-industry-to-india-s-gdp/ How many people are in the above pay grade? See RTI and press releases responses and link context, as direct data will never be available ( More official data links are welcome, as this data may not represent full breakdown ) https://incometaxindia.gov.in/Lists/Press%20Releases/Attachments/1164/Press-Release-Direct-Taxes-Data-shows-improved-Taxpayer-compliance-dated-26-10-2023.pdf The response states that Bottom 25% payers (below taxable <5lpa but still filed nil returns ) represent 58% gross income, (i.e. 1.02cr People ), Top 1% represents 42% of gross income > 30% bracket ( about 4 lakh people), Rest ( about 3cr) falls under various slabbut are not much contributing or significant enough to dent that percentage. It also states that average income has increased, but when you compare it to the whole workforce, it is a fraction of total reality. Facts aside, this is how I see things around : The data is of whole nation, all industries. IT industry is subset of that economy. It employees around 30lakh engineering grads ( apart from that are HRs & management staff that doesn't really count tbh) on average, out of which about 60% ( again, my perception with interacting employees of different MNCs varying in standards when consilting tech problems. Not factual data, as those in need are already incompetent enough to dig their graves that they require external help ) are incompetent in one or other way. We don't cater to a world-class environment for the industry. There are far better standards out there, and risks involved increase with that, companies wants to play safe, keep sticking on old tech, don't want to change, etc. The recent demand isn't bad, it forces cleaning in industry, darwinism would apply, and fit candidates would survive. But what about hype? What about false impression? What about newbies working in production environment have far more responsibilities than they should have? Our so called experienced leads don't have answer for that or wants to risk quality over quantity to make things cheaper. Jugaadu nature doesn't apply everywhere. The perception of this has become an eco chamber in forums. Yes, there are individuals who get paid high at the cost of their time and their skillset. Average salaries are whatcis paid unless you're an exception. So, answer to OPs question : if you consider 20-30 lakh people everyone, your answer is yes. If you consider whole workforce, answer is no. Average workforce salary was about 20k as of last survey, which arabds out with ITR filed data, so sample quality on average is good enough to portray whole picture. Source : https://mospi.gov.in/sites/default/files/publication_reports/AR_PLFS_2022_23N.pdf I'm not saying high salaries are bad, it's just economy doesn't rhyme with it. There are many factors, one of the most thing is people falsifying salaries based on location. If they are not living in India, their 30k usd would still look like 24lpa package or double of that. People talk about CTC but they don't say if they got joining bonus of rest of the component and how much is actually in hand salary after all deductions. New comers think they get all the perks, guess what they are same as your neighbours or distant cousin who tends to exaggerate alot to hide reality. If you're competent enough you'd make out, don't focus on money if you wsnt to survive in this highly changing industry. You'll learn new thing every day and even when you die, you wouldn't know the whole CS concepts. The hard cold fact is alot folks in this industry runs after money and not problem solving skills and burn out evetually. Those who focuses on concepts build up their strengths every day, and money comes naturally as you're able to solve more and more provlems. Social media / forums where you don't know other people boost confirmation bias, makes you assume things, boosts beliefs. That's one way of seeing things. On other hand you can use information to productive use, that's upto you. Sadly my reply would be buried under countless comments. But I really hope it educates readers eho made this far about the intricacies of Indian Economy and our industry. P.S. Another eco chamber: https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/s/sWRGhFm8lZ
Tldr bro?
That's not the best way to talk about these things, read the entire thing :)
I worked with a Mid-size startup (US based) last year. The CPO and CTO both (indians) for some reason were using same CA/firm. I came to know indirectly from them that they were paying max ONLY 1-4% as tax. Btw their salaries were in 1.5-1.8 Cr. So, first of all here are many more people earning more than 50 LPA, they are just good at hiding themselves. Many surveys and research companies don't have access to salaries of the people, they just try to reverse guess the salaries from total tax paid amounts - the data which gets leaked continuously from IT department for some unknown reasons. hmmm
I was getting 50 LPA till march 2023. It was a small gig of 4 months, and then company weirdly started firing everyone. In short time by March 2023 they have fired almost 60% of their employees. After that it has been a struggle, all the jobs on portals specially have been paywalled, means you cannot see genuine jobs on portals like naukri, monster/fountit and even others. If you have hefty subscription only then probably you get access to right ones but still you will have to search for genuine ones. Most of the friends and colleagues I knew are working on almost 50-60% slashed salaries now a days. They are in pathetic state cause of max 30% hike nonsense (unethical practice ONLY in India), they are stuck now at lower salaries and don't know If they will be ever able to reach their past peaks. All were manager positions, I guess some of them are working as Tech leads, Tech managers.
Nowadays % really matter ?!
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Are there any engineers in tech who earn 1 cr a month salary? Like I saw ezsnippat(Neeraj Walia)podcast with prakhar ka pravachan and his aim is to earn 1 cr a month and he is currently earring 15-20 lakhs a month So are there any engineers or developers in tech who are earning 50 lacs or 1 cr a month?
Are you asking for 60 LPA base or including stock/ RSU etc?
60 Lakhs annualy. So, you can immediately sell your RSUs after tax + base.
Then some storage companies pay upwards of that range in Bangalore for senior engineers. You can also add Broadcom, Nvidia(because the stock shot up) into the list.
Yes, you are only looking at tech. Lot of engineers don't work in tech. For that, you need to look at GCCs (Development Centres) of these companies. Just as an example : 1. 20k developers work in JPMC India : [https://www.fortuneindia.com/long-reads/what-drives-india-as-gcc-hub/115291](https://www.fortuneindia.com/long-reads/what-drives-india-as-gcc-hub/115291) 2. Fresher Salary itself is 18 LPA for JPMC 9SDE-1 equivalent) There are 1600 GCCs in India and 1.6 Million people work in these GCCs.
This would be difficult because folks who are also freelancing on the side, they might have registered a sole-proprietorship on any of their family member's name. Hence the earnings might be divided into half or some proportion like that.
L5s earn more than 60 at amazon sometimes its around 1 cr
Amazon has SDE 2s with >60L
L4 at google 80 LPA , it’s pretty common at google IMO. FYI L4 ~ SDE 2
Do you think >60LPA would be higher than 20k in big tech (Amazon, Google, Uber, Microsoft, etc etc)
IMO it would max be 10-15k
Anyone kind enough to provide referal to these companies 😁?
My take home pay this year is over 60LPA (pre tax). I work for a US based product company not mentioned here. There are a lot of companies that pay similarly. The numbers will be much larger than what you estimate. I am an SDE 2 with 3 years of experience