OP, you are lying.
3% drop chance. You did 200 runs. 99.77% chance to get at least 1 stone in that, so you hit the 0.23% chance to not get a stone.
HOWEVER, your lies are worse. You say 3 other buddies did 200 runs. That's 800 runs. With no drops. That's a >99.99% chance to get at least 1 stone in that.
You did NOT do 200 runs.
D4 has no real end game, except for incessantly farming bosses over and over and over for Uber uniques and them stones. Hopefully they make end game content that doesn’t involve 1 shoting duriel hundreds and hundreds of times as that gets pretty old pretty quick. Personally, once I can speed NMD 100 and have glyphs leveled up, I stop playing D4 and wait for next season.
>D4 has no real end game, except for incessantly farming ~~bosses~~ materials over and over and over
FTFY
Let's be real. The bosses themselves are an actual joke, and the only thing that creates any form of challenge is how much time you have to do the mind numbing work of farming materials.
This is pretty much it. You can roll another character if there's a build out there you wanna try. Or you can go play another game for a while. In fact that's the literal design of the game and seasons, straight from the devs mouths.
The people who have some strange need to buy one game and just play it forever are never going to be satisfied. If you can't get out of that mindset then you are going to forever be disappointed with Diablo and every other game. There is no such thing as one game that will continue to supply the dopamine you want in perpetuity, and frankly unless you can wrap your head around that then prepare to be forever unsatisfied.
That was my plan. But when I made a new one and realized that only the statues and some basic stuff from renown carried over - no quests, dungeons - I quickly went back to my main. 1 per season for me it is.
Well said. That said, I take issue with Blizzards reward system. They always seem to incentivize an almost sadistic time-sink based in repetition which inevitably leads to the nearly immediate obsolescence of the object sought, because the object itself was only useful as a means to its own attainment. Like, and now that you are no longer thirsty from drinking outta the broken fountain all this time, here's a big glass of water. I like Bungie's approach. Skill is rewarded, period. And those elite rewards will still be useful 2 years down the road.
Oh yeah farm mats for endless boring hours on end to 1 shot duriel a few times. Or do duriel ROTA and boringly 1 shot him over and over for endless boring hours on end. Lololol
I think AoZ or something like it will be it. Gauntlet is a joke with all the people buying Duriel carries with RMT. The D3 challenge rifts are a much better model, though I have to watch videos to learn to play some of the builds.
Gaultlet is not "end game" it's a lazy leader board. Dont give them credit.
Edit: all of their internal conflicts are of no matter to us. Make the game and shut up. We have 0 obligation to give a shit about what's happening on the inside. They needed more time? Sucks to suck. They're gonna hear it how bad it is until they make it right.
I can't wrap my mind around being this hostile about a game you like so much you're hanging out in the subreddit for it. Like, sure there's some things that need fixed and some more content to add. But if you're this fucking angry then go do literally anything else with your time and energy. Getting this shitty about a company that makes a videogame isn't the look you think it is. If the game is that bad in your opinion then that means you're actively seeking out a place to just complain, all while having no fun or hope for improvement. And that's just...pathetic and weird.
Listen here fanboi. Everybody and their mother can come to this sub. You want your own little bubble diablo 4 jerk circle? then you should be out from this toxic sub.
Haha, it's not the thinking I mind. It's the forced grouping. If I wanted to raid with all the social pressure and snarkiness on wipes I'd go back to WoW. Dialbo WB and legions are plenty of grouping, thanks.
You literally cant blame people for wanting things done quickly. Make your own groups, stop crying about it. You play how you want to, others play their way. If people want the top DPS and you're not willing to play the meta that's on you. Like I said. Make you're own group.
Edit: Damn, guess some people refuse to make their own groups😂😂
I really don’t want to play an ARPG on a schedule. Especially if the best loot is locked behind these raids and I have to coordinate people once a week on discord. I have seen the worst in my MMO experience. I don’t want it an ARPG.
No guarantees datamine
https://www.icy-veins.com/d4/news/vessel-of-hatred-datamining-new-spiritborn-class-mercenaries-new-skills-for-all-classes-and-more/
An option for those that play on PC or a steam deck.... if it was also available for console, they would have more server issues for online play. Yes, I know they have the offline feature and would be playing offline.
But it would have been much worse if it were released on console as well. I'm glad they got it sorted out. Their success will push blizz to step it up. Hopefully LE will come to console sometime later this year, console is a huge market. I think they would sell enough for console to more than make it worth the additional work and time to do it.
>Their success will push blizz to step it up.
That's highly optimistic and unrealistic. PoE was a great example of daring to try new things and developed a devoted player base; LE will find similar success by being a game made by players for the players.
D4's path, so far, has been incorporating improvements from D3 into D4 because it somehow never occurred to them that QoL changes in D3 were things that Diablo players got used to. D4 addressed the biggest criticism of D3 which was that it's too cartoony; the graphics and art department really made sure they hit the nail on that one. As for the rest of the game... The devs pretended D3 RoS never happened and just proceeded to make a better Diablo game than D3 vanilla and pushed it out.
Yet blizz has been making changes. D4 should have launched with the qol features d3 and most arpg have currently. Bliz also knows the LE is a PC only game at the moment, so it's not a major competitor... yet. POE2 on the other hand, could be direct competition if it releases on PC and console. With d4 being a live service, it will change and evolve hopefully for the better.
It's basically forging potential, but when you run the dungeon (temporal sanctum) you combine a unique item (orange) with an exalted item (purple) to destroy that purple and take x affixes from it. 1 potential means you take 1 affix at random (all weighted at 25%) up to 4 potential for all 4 purple affixes. That'll then become a legendary item, keeping all the unique stats plus whatever ones from the purple item.
That's your true gg piece of gear, if you're using a unique piece of gear in your build that is. If you get super lucky and get a exalted with t7s and smash those onto your unique then gg my dude.
Awesome thanks for the explanation! Do Exalted’s always roll with 4 affixes, and if so does the unique not factor whether the taken affix is a prefix or suffix?
As far as I'm aware, exalted is minimum 3, because blue is 2, 3 turns yellow, and exalted are just a yellow with a t6 stat. I don't know if you can remove an exalted items stats with a rune to force a specific roll into your legendary craft.
The leveling (especialy new characters), theorycrafting, builds, crafting system, endgame randomize or target farming, trading and fortune circles are AMAZING!!
Personally when i finished my penshot rogue (very fun build) i Just made a new char.
Like yeah i can spend all my energies farming a shako, that i Will never use in two months, or i can try a new build and have fun.
One thing we can all agree, Is that we Need a robusta endgame, cuz right now? Farming duriel ain't it
I've maxed all my senechal stones...
Killed Duriel 100 times...
Killed Malphas a dozen times, and solo...
I've run dozens of tier 90NMD, and a level 100NMD Solo....
And not one uber unique or unique tuning stone.
At some point they have to just unlock the goddamned things right? So I can try them out, during the actual season they're relevant?
It such stupid, shitty design.
As ridiculously rare as they are and as tedious as the summoning mats are it'd be nice if you could progress to them via other means. The restricted loot pools on much of the game really sucks too. But it'd be nice if there was some alternate way to get some of the stuff even if ridiculously costly.
Once you hit level 100 and can do the highest levels of NMDs solo you basically hit a wall in which you make no progress on anything anywhere unless the planets align and you get a drop that isn't utter crap.
That'd be a fair system I think. Something people gotta work towards and isn't just handing it to them, but also makes it so stuff doesn't seem completely unattainable constantly.
How else do you expect them to get players to invest hundreds of hours if not by attaching a super low drop rate carrot at the end of the stick? Come up with some engaging and fun activity? Better off splashing a new coat of paint on older skins and edit a few pieces here and there for higher KPIs and bonuses.
The smarter way to let players obtain the Uber rare stuff is to have a slow but guaranteed way; that way there's always some progression towards a goal and not moving towards just an extra spin at the slots.
The only "true" endgame we've had so far was AoZ.
S3's version of AoZ was supposed to be the Gauntlet but it's been delayed with few updates (I imagine we'll get more info in the next camp chat).
Until there's actual challenging content in the game, yes, the only real endgame is farming uber stones and uber gear "just to have them". These items are not even remotely needed to clear any uber bosses or NMD/NMV 100.
If your characters are at 100 and you're feeling bored I'd go play other games until we get some actual concrete info about the rest of the season and s4.
That's more or less what I've done this season. Once the Gauntlet was delayed I started leveling my rogue VERY slowly while I have downtime in WoW SOD.
If the Gauntlet gets an actual s3 launch date I'll start playing this more.
Gauntlets are supposedly tuned to t70 nmd/nmv. I would hardly call that challenging. It will turn into content that consists of who can make the fastest moving glass cannon. They should re-release AoZ with Gauntlets imo. I'm sure that would be a lot of work, but it would be their best bet of retaining as many sweaties as possible. It would be difficult to balance both at the same time but it would surely give end gamers more to do.
>S3 Endgame is the farming of uber items and stones?
No it's the unfun farming of summoning materials to watch unusable trash drop every time from whatever "high tier" content you do.
Uber Lilith was very satisfying to slay. Massacring demons in NMD100 also feels awesome. Haven’t really been chasing duriel or Malphas drops since it just seems tedious to me. This game for me is all about killing stuff and looking cool doing it and for me it delivers at least :)
The game needs build slots. I have a pummel wearbear Druid. Hella fun but I want to do a storm Druid, wearwolf Druid, pet Druid, etc. it’s a pain in the ass to change all the gear and skills out. Not enough storage space to even do that for many characters.
Let me save that build and start another on the same character. Let there be a 5 minute cooldown between swapping and presto…fun can be had by more.
It’s not a fix but it’s a perk I want.
I mean is it? You don’t need 50 different modifiers on your gear to be viable in D4 and that’s how D2 works, also I hate getting drops for necro while playing as a barb makes zero sense there may be a few things wrong with the itemization in D4 but for the most part it works just fine and people really only like D2 because of nostalgia the gameplay is clunky at best and the story was very meh and not enthralling enough to make me go “WOW!” And it’s literally the same grind as D4 except…you have to play the campaign over and over and over again and farm the same 3 bosses over and over again for a chance at shako or Andy’s.
I enjoy and played d2 classic and d2:R (1.8k hrs playtime on ps5)
and I agree with this. I dont really get it when someone says that d2 has a better endgame than d4.
The grand irony is that if D2 was released as a new game today, it would get crucified for a lot of outdated systems and clumsy gameplay. D2 is a legend and deserves to be on the gaming HoF for sure, but it is definitely not a modern feel. So it seems what many people mean is they recall liking D2 endgame better "at the time", when they were 10/15/20/25 years old, than they like D4 endgame now when they are 30/35/40/45. Possibly while wearing rose tinted glasses. And while forgetting gamers tastes and expectations are vastly different now than 20+ years ago. As well as themselves being 20 years older.
Yes, people play D2 now, and I'm sure some are truly die hard for it. I played it back in 2003 and have the redone version to mess around on now. I just don't buy the supposed mass appeal for it in the modern age. I mean, if people really did prefer D2 over any game made since, they can just go play it instead. It is right there.
We are here. We play both D2R, D4, D3, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch and Path of Exile. Worst part is msny people I discuss with here have D4 as their only ARPG and think they know the genre.
That's great. Perspective is definitely helpful. D2 was probably my first (if you don't count older stuff). Played torchlight 1 + 2, titans quest, some lesser known similar indie stuff. Then D3 and D4 now and again. Grim Dawn has been on my to do list. I'm never hard-core and more of a dabbler. That has made me pretty open minded and not really set on cheering for one IP over another. I mean really, who TF cares as long as it's fun for the time you are playing it.
I wouldnt call it nostalgia. My most recent season was season 4, half a year ago. Thing is that with trading you can actually work your way towards an Enigma with various activities. Love it.
Atleast a 21 year older gsme had its charm compared to D4.
But also play Last Epoch, Grim Dawn and PoE, so its not like Im one of those who only play D2 from beginning to end of my life. All good games with different strengths, but unfortunately D4 is on the short end at the moment. Hopefully the trajectory is upward.
Yes, it is like D2, but a very terrible replication. You can find something valuable from d2 bosses, runes, uniques, bases, but D4 Duriel are really only for Uber uniques, and the need to farm the fuking mats is Uber time consuming and Uber annoying. Almost every time he drops garbage. And why do you think farming the mat is fun? And why do you think killing a maggot in 3 seconds but need to a minute to walk to him is fun? There is no progression after Duriel, nothing. You can still progress after picking up your godly drop from D2 bosses, but nothing after D4 Duriel, at least at the moment.
This is why when people tout D4's endgame, I'm baffled. There is no endgame to be found here. Spamming a single boss for an uber is pathetic. You spend more time gathering materials just to summon the dumb thing. And even if you do get one... then what? Back to NM? The thing you could already blast through?
There you have a point. My necromancer can walk through T100 Vaults since he was lvl 90. Of course, he wears shako, selig, Doombringer, Starless sky, varshans ring with 1.0 seconds turn and for bossfights the Grandfather. So i ask myself...why do i keep trying to find the stones?
I understand I made 22 passes yesterday evening alone, 57 total passes altogether so far, 8-10 passes at a go and with a group on Malphas and NOTHING. Some others have received a stone here and there, but personally holding a ZERO. For crying out loud, it's a 90-day season, I don't want to spend 89 days trying to get 2 impossible to get stones. Heck, I've gotten 9 Ubers off of Duriel. Malphas runs are a freaking JOKE..... CHANGE THE DROP RATE BLIZZARD!!!!
Update: Well, after 16 more runs last night I finally got the Genesis stone.
..my words. I got 13!!! Ubers this season from Duriel when i ran around 100 runs but this Boss really sucks...and when running alone it is even more frustrating, to run through 4 dungeons, eventually meet the butcher and the son of Malphas (or both at the same time, like it happened to me one time) then kill the boss and get.....sh\*t ... come on!
How do you get enough cores to run Malphas so much? I’m lvl 100 (solo player) and barely have enough for a few runs. I guess I’m not doing enough braziers cause I have several maxed glyphs and can run lvl 100 vaults but there’s nothing I know to do to get son of malphas to spawn..
Arcane tremors; I sit with like 150 igneous cores at all times, if you farm elemental cores to set off the braziers, and you have a 4 man group doing rotations you can get like 25-30 in like 20 mins
Why not just give us huge ass dungeons with 3 4 bosses inside the dungeon in different areas of the dungeon
My issue is dungeon and vaults are to short
Yep, the problem is that there‘s simply nothing you could use the ubers and/or stones for. In S2 the duriel grind was new so it was alright + we got AoZ what I really loved to run, but now it‘s just tedious without anything nice to do. S3 was promoted with the gauntlet, but they delayed it. I stopped farming duriel/malphas 2-3 weeks ago and hopped over to Last Epoch. But I‘d really love to get something new in D4 now what we can use as a nice gameplay-loop and a reason to farm duriel/malphas.
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i got 3 ubers harlequins crest, ring of starless skies and the andariels visage (guess i got lucky as shit but it ran out) ran a bunch of malphas on rogue and sorc did not get shit on any of them
Can you do lvl150 NMDs? Most likely yes. That's the actual usable endgame. There is literally zero reason beyond that to have Ubers or Unique stones except bragging rights. Make the right decision and start a new character or quit. Don't make your experience miserable.
For the first 2 months yeah.
AoZ was the only thing we've had so far attempting to resemble an endgame system.
People (other than barbs) had to actually theory craft and change their builds around to climb to t10+. Was really nice actually.
S3's AoZ was supposed to be the Gauntlet but... lol. No idea when we'll get that, *if* we'll get that
I think our mindset is to forever grind this game, similar to D2/3. D4 is just built differently. I’m a casual couch dad gamer and I’ve really had enough of this season. Got 1 char to 100, max glyphs, complete nmd 100s etc. No desire to have another char. Will see what the next campfire chat will bring or just wait and see if S5 is worth returning to.
No season two had a reason to get those Ubers. AoZ which was fun and it had progression built in with the new glyph. This season may someday have a dumb leaderboard but your character won't ever progress again this season.
AoZ? You mean the slightly harder NMD? Climbed to about 18 without much effort. And the glyph you level like the other 20 or so? Shit bro, I guess you're right. It wasnt the same at all, revolutionary.
It wasnt too bad on Wizard either. Wasnt there a druid hitting trillions too? All I'm saying is theres gotta be something better than the NMD version of a greater rift.
I completed the whole season journey, even the secret full completion bit the other night, gave away my left over summon mats and that's it for me for the season, zero unique glyphs and no ubers. No point grinding better gear forever when there's nothing like rifts to push.
S3 is a short one.
I play a little here and there but there's nothing left to do really (I only do 1 HC class per session)
No longevity to the mechanics this season really. Enjoyable while it lasted but I've no stomach for endless grinds.
S4 will be a new day.
I can’t stand doing Malphas rotas. Absolutely one of the worst things.
It’s all RNG. Had a guy get both stones drop in first 10 runs.
Myself, I have two chars and both have done 50 and gotten nothing.
I much prefer doing Duriel, so that’s what I do for my end game now.
I get both are rng but Duriel you might get a decent 925 to upgrade or trade. Also I like to do helltides and whispers so the mats aren’t a bother and I get enough in a week to so 10-20x rotas. Duriel himself it’s like 90sec each round which is a better investment in time than Malphas is.
True but regarding Duriel he dropped me 13!!! Ubers un the first 100 runs. No joke. My both chars have Selig, grandfather, Doombringer and shako. I took the remaining 3 Andariels, 1 Grandfather and 1 Selig, which was one before they set the speed to 26% so it sucked anyway and salvaged then to craft a starless ring for my necromancer.
So to be honest there is no reason for me to run Duriel this season anymore.
The funniest thing is that i was level 72 with my Barb when this happened and my best buddy who came with me with his 100 hota barb, i wouldn't have been able to kill Duriel at level 72, he didn't drop a single one while me dropped all the mentioned....after the 4th i didn't even mentioned when another one dropped to not annoy him \^\^ but still he calls me Mr Uber since this day.
I also did already like 200 Malphas runs and nothing, not one stone. Then my brother in law joined with a level 75 sorcerer. I was there for him, I carried him, I went for 3 of the keys during he was getting one to kick malphas ass. We did 7 runs! 7!!! He got both stones… I was about to cry.
That's the biggest problem for me as well. I would definitely like there to be enough challenges in the game after you have mostly completed your character and reached level 100. Even before that, I would like to have more good intermediate challenges.
Maybe new significantly more challenging, interesting and rewarding bosses (No Echo of Lilith style impossible ones). WT5 and so on.
Give us something to do or work towards in our clans.
Everything can be done without a clan. As of right now, clans have no objective in-game.
ALSO....SHOW US HOW LONG CLAN MEMBERS HAVE BEEN OFFLINE....Why you would not have this is beyond me.
This is what I do each season. I play a new build, I reach level 100, I complete the season pass, I complete the seasonal chapters for the rewards and then I solo Uber Lilith. I run a few durials to get some good gear for my build, and then I'm off till the next season. This roughly takes 50-70 hours.
Which is why I skipped this season. I did the uber grinding last season, and spent hours on Duriel. Over and over and over again. Not this time. There are other games that respect my time more.
There was supposed to be a leader board too. I wonder if they will remember to drop loot at the end of the timed run, or if it will just be a race with no rewards.
When I think of how things will be implemented into D4, I tend to go with the version that is least rewarding, least fun, nonsensical way of doing said thing.
Also leader boards probably not until end of season or season 4, so really... enjoy duriel rotas for the next 2 months I guess.
You have to set priorities. I stand up 2 hours earlier in the morning to play before i go to work . After work i play 3 hours til my wife has dinner ready . After dinner no playing-family time 😁
D4 clearly launched way too early, and with the teams changing over it’s very evident the game wasn’t complete. Realistically it should have been delayed at least one more year to build more content, balance, itemization, QOL.
There’s no long grind and the game is basically a 80 hour per character/per season game. It’s not a 500-1000 hour grind like other ARPG’s.
AOZ was the closest we had for a reason to build up a character, get BIS & Ubers, but it was a long shot off of an acceptable end game.
As harsh as it sounds it will likely take a full year and 1-2 expansions before we see any impactful changes for more endgame options.
A 500-1000 hour grind for a 3 month season would be extremely stupid. You are talking 40+ hrs a week. A game should not have a grind that is basically a full time job.
It's a seasonal game and they expect people to hit their seasonal milestones, set the game down, and come back for the next season.
Oh, look, [ANOTHER person](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1avrfds/who_came_up_with_this_brilliant_idea/) saying they ran Malphas 200 times without a unique stone dropping.
Sorry, the math ain't mathing on that one.
The odds of 200 malphas runs without a single unique stone dropping in any of them is \~1.87 in ***ONE MILLION*** chance. Yes I already did the math for that.
So yeah, I call bullshit on that.
Always the option of fighting uber lilith for 0 drops.
I finally did mama Lilly this weekend and got 2 oranges. It was so worth it
Yellows and blues for me. Some not even 925.
Mine weren’t 925 and they were sold immediately. It would have been nice to get the horse like my cousin did last season.
You’ll never see that. She’s a one and done fight.
I have no intention of doing it again
You only get items once
OP, you are lying. 3% drop chance. You did 200 runs. 99.77% chance to get at least 1 stone in that, so you hit the 0.23% chance to not get a stone. HOWEVER, your lies are worse. You say 3 other buddies did 200 runs. That's 800 runs. With no drops. That's a >99.99% chance to get at least 1 stone in that. You did NOT do 200 runs.
They could be really unlucky or don't know there are chest... I know I had worse chances happen to me...
RNG gonna RNG.
I did probably 80 runs, 0 stones, 0 gear that I would use. Lots of wasted time.
I’m around 200 Duriels between season 2 and 3. No Ubers.
smells like you skipped the double drop rate during christmas.
Ya. I was enjoying my Christmas lol.
D4 has no real end game, except for incessantly farming bosses over and over and over for Uber uniques and them stones. Hopefully they make end game content that doesn’t involve 1 shoting duriel hundreds and hundreds of times as that gets pretty old pretty quick. Personally, once I can speed NMD 100 and have glyphs leveled up, I stop playing D4 and wait for next season.
>D4 has no real end game, except for incessantly farming ~~bosses~~ materials over and over and over FTFY Let's be real. The bosses themselves are an actual joke, and the only thing that creates any form of challenge is how much time you have to do the mind numbing work of farming materials.
This is pretty much it. You can roll another character if there's a build out there you wanna try. Or you can go play another game for a while. In fact that's the literal design of the game and seasons, straight from the devs mouths. The people who have some strange need to buy one game and just play it forever are never going to be satisfied. If you can't get out of that mindset then you are going to forever be disappointed with Diablo and every other game. There is no such thing as one game that will continue to supply the dopamine you want in perpetuity, and frankly unless you can wrap your head around that then prepare to be forever unsatisfied.
That was my plan. But when I made a new one and realized that only the statues and some basic stuff from renown carried over - no quests, dungeons - I quickly went back to my main. 1 per season for me it is.
Well said. That said, I take issue with Blizzards reward system. They always seem to incentivize an almost sadistic time-sink based in repetition which inevitably leads to the nearly immediate obsolescence of the object sought, because the object itself was only useful as a means to its own attainment. Like, and now that you are no longer thirsty from drinking outta the broken fountain all this time, here's a big glass of water. I like Bungie's approach. Skill is rewarded, period. And those elite rewards will still be useful 2 years down the road.
Not accurate, u need to farm the mats first, mean the open world shit and boring helltide
Oh yeah farm mats for endless boring hours on end to 1 shot duriel a few times. Or do duriel ROTA and boringly 1 shot him over and over for endless boring hours on end. Lololol
/thread
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I think AoZ or something like it will be it. Gauntlet is a joke with all the people buying Duriel carries with RMT. The D3 challenge rifts are a much better model, though I have to watch videos to learn to play some of the builds.
Gaultlet is not "end game" it's a lazy leader board. Dont give them credit. Edit: all of their internal conflicts are of no matter to us. Make the game and shut up. We have 0 obligation to give a shit about what's happening on the inside. They needed more time? Sucks to suck. They're gonna hear it how bad it is until they make it right.
I can't wrap my mind around being this hostile about a game you like so much you're hanging out in the subreddit for it. Like, sure there's some things that need fixed and some more content to add. But if you're this fucking angry then go do literally anything else with your time and energy. Getting this shitty about a company that makes a videogame isn't the look you think it is. If the game is that bad in your opinion then that means you're actively seeking out a place to just complain, all while having no fun or hope for improvement. And that's just...pathetic and weird.
Listen here fanboi. Everybody and their mother can come to this sub. You want your own little bubble diablo 4 jerk circle? then you should be out from this toxic sub.
Luckily raids and more activities are coming for the expansion.
Raids? Oh god. Please get the MMO out of my mindless ARPG.
Agreed they better not put any content in here where I have to think
Haha, it's not the thinking I mind. It's the forced grouping. If I wanted to raid with all the social pressure and snarkiness on wipes I'd go back to WoW. Dialbo WB and legions are plenty of grouping, thanks.
A well designed raid would be soloable and have loot and difficulty scaled to size of party. Like come on even RuneScape has it figured out.
Ah, got it. Like the Guardian Raids in Lost Ark. Half the time a party would get you killed. That game got a lot right outside of the paywall.
Raids is the thing I hate the most. Can’t wait to get kicked for not playing the meta
Yeah there’s some pretty heavy pros and cons to something like that, unfortunately it’s a community problem.
You literally cant blame people for wanting things done quickly. Make your own groups, stop crying about it. You play how you want to, others play their way. If people want the top DPS and you're not willing to play the meta that's on you. Like I said. Make you're own group. Edit: Damn, guess some people refuse to make their own groups😂😂
I really don’t want to play an ARPG on a schedule. Especially if the best loot is locked behind these raids and I have to coordinate people once a week on discord. I have seen the worst in my MMO experience. I don’t want it an ARPG.
Tbf raids have not been confirmed for the next expansion and I doubt they'll be apart of it.
So far the datamine has been right about every season too, any change could happen but we’ll see.
Says who? You? There's been no info from the xpac, infact, blizzard only showed a teaser at blizzcon
No guarantees datamine https://www.icy-veins.com/d4/news/vessel-of-hatred-datamining-new-spiritborn-class-mercenaries-new-skills-for-all-classes-and-more/
Old data mined speculation. Although I do think raids might be a thing sooner or later. This is not confirmation.
Give last epoch a try? Its okay to finish a season
Not everyone is on pc
An option for those that play on PC or a steam deck.... if it was also available for console, they would have more server issues for online play. Yes, I know they have the offline feature and would be playing offline.
Server issues are fixed, thank god.
But it would have been much worse if it were released on console as well. I'm glad they got it sorted out. Their success will push blizz to step it up. Hopefully LE will come to console sometime later this year, console is a huge market. I think they would sell enough for console to more than make it worth the additional work and time to do it.
>Their success will push blizz to step it up. That's highly optimistic and unrealistic. PoE was a great example of daring to try new things and developed a devoted player base; LE will find similar success by being a game made by players for the players. D4's path, so far, has been incorporating improvements from D3 into D4 because it somehow never occurred to them that QoL changes in D3 were things that Diablo players got used to. D4 addressed the biggest criticism of D3 which was that it's too cartoony; the graphics and art department really made sure they hit the nail on that one. As for the rest of the game... The devs pretended D3 RoS never happened and just proceeded to make a better Diablo game than D3 vanilla and pushed it out.
Yet blizz has been making changes. D4 should have launched with the qol features d3 and most arpg have currently. Bliz also knows the LE is a PC only game at the moment, so it's not a major competitor... yet. POE2 on the other hand, could be direct competition if it releases on PC and console. With d4 being a live service, it will change and evolve hopefully for the better.
Its a money grab i have 0 faith in this dev team for d4
You know how legendary potential works?
It's basically forging potential, but when you run the dungeon (temporal sanctum) you combine a unique item (orange) with an exalted item (purple) to destroy that purple and take x affixes from it. 1 potential means you take 1 affix at random (all weighted at 25%) up to 4 potential for all 4 purple affixes. That'll then become a legendary item, keeping all the unique stats plus whatever ones from the purple item. That's your true gg piece of gear, if you're using a unique piece of gear in your build that is. If you get super lucky and get a exalted with t7s and smash those onto your unique then gg my dude.
Awesome thanks for the explanation! Do Exalted’s always roll with 4 affixes, and if so does the unique not factor whether the taken affix is a prefix or suffix?
As far as I'm aware, exalted is minimum 3, because blue is 2, 3 turns yellow, and exalted are just a yellow with a t6 stat. I don't know if you can remove an exalted items stats with a rune to force a specific roll into your legendary craft.
You can imprint a t6 IIRC, so exalte can be 5 stats with a t6.
To craft a legendary you need to use exalted with 4 affixes.
The leveling (especialy new characters), theorycrafting, builds, crafting system, endgame randomize or target farming, trading and fortune circles are AMAZING!!
Bought and installed it today. Started to play and its nice
Personally when i finished my penshot rogue (very fun build) i Just made a new char. Like yeah i can spend all my energies farming a shako, that i Will never use in two months, or i can try a new build and have fun. One thing we can all agree, Is that we Need a robusta endgame, cuz right now? Farming duriel ain't it
I’m all in on a robusta endgame ngl
Robusta Is the way to go
Have have so many mats from not farm any of the bosses. Im just here to play
Incorrect. S3 end game is to hit 100 and play Last Epoch
Or just uninstall and play LE
As already stated, not everyone is on pc.
D4 is mostly console player base, last epoch is pc only.
I've maxed all my senechal stones... Killed Duriel 100 times... Killed Malphas a dozen times, and solo... I've run dozens of tier 90NMD, and a level 100NMD Solo.... And not one uber unique or unique tuning stone. At some point they have to just unlock the goddamned things right? So I can try them out, during the actual season they're relevant? It such stupid, shitty design.
As ridiculously rare as they are and as tedious as the summoning mats are it'd be nice if you could progress to them via other means. The restricted loot pools on much of the game really sucks too. But it'd be nice if there was some alternate way to get some of the stuff even if ridiculously costly. Once you hit level 100 and can do the highest levels of NMDs solo you basically hit a wall in which you make no progress on anything anywhere unless the planets align and you get a drop that isn't utter crap.
Guarantee a drop on your first Solo 100nmd clear.
That'd be a fair system I think. Something people gotta work towards and isn't just handing it to them, but also makes it so stuff doesn't seem completely unattainable constantly.
Agreed!!!
How else do you expect them to get players to invest hundreds of hours if not by attaching a super low drop rate carrot at the end of the stick? Come up with some engaging and fun activity? Better off splashing a new coat of paint on older skins and edit a few pieces here and there for higher KPIs and bonuses. The smarter way to let players obtain the Uber rare stuff is to have a slow but guaranteed way; that way there's always some progression towards a goal and not moving towards just an extra spin at the slots.
Trying to get those STUPID stones with their miniscule drop rate is disheartening......
The only "true" endgame we've had so far was AoZ. S3's version of AoZ was supposed to be the Gauntlet but it's been delayed with few updates (I imagine we'll get more info in the next camp chat). Until there's actual challenging content in the game, yes, the only real endgame is farming uber stones and uber gear "just to have them". These items are not even remotely needed to clear any uber bosses or NMD/NMV 100. If your characters are at 100 and you're feeling bored I'd go play other games until we get some actual concrete info about the rest of the season and s4. That's more or less what I've done this season. Once the Gauntlet was delayed I started leveling my rogue VERY slowly while I have downtime in WoW SOD. If the Gauntlet gets an actual s3 launch date I'll start playing this more.
Gauntlets are supposedly tuned to t70 nmd/nmv. I would hardly call that challenging. It will turn into content that consists of who can make the fastest moving glass cannon. They should re-release AoZ with Gauntlets imo. I'm sure that would be a lot of work, but it would be their best bet of retaining as many sweaties as possible. It would be difficult to balance both at the same time but it would surely give end gamers more to do.
When did they mention the nmd70 thing? I seem to have missed that
In the original campfire chat where it was announced. All available footage shows t70 level mobs as well.
>S3 Endgame is the farming of uber items and stones? No it's the unfun farming of summoning materials to watch unusable trash drop every time from whatever "high tier" content you do.
And even when you complete your journey of BiS, there is absolutely no content to use it against. This is why I thought AoZ was a great idea...
Yep. In spite of peoples complaints that's the kind of stuff the game needs. As well as itemization improvements.
Uber Lilith was very satisfying to slay. Massacring demons in NMD100 also feels awesome. Haven’t really been chasing duriel or Malphas drops since it just seems tedious to me. This game for me is all about killing stuff and looking cool doing it and for me it delivers at least :)
Put some nice beats on, pour a glass of wine, and slay some demons for a couple hours before bed. That is my endgame lol
Glad I'm not the only one. Currently leveling my 3rd class for the season
Nice! I like dipping my toes in a few classes each season.
^ This 100% I also like to make sure the room is candlelit as well.
Nice touch, really completes the aesthetic.
Would take me years to have equipment good enough for NMD100. It’s a huge struggle for me to even do lvl 60.
Gauntlet is coming out soon, that'll be the endgame if you want to push leaderboards instead of farm specific drops.
I miss set items...
Season 3 is the laziest dogshit. If they mess up itemization 2.0 in s4 - game will be dead
Jokes on you, it's coming in Season 5 (maybe...)
There is no end game. The content isnt fun to play, it's extremely grindy to get any Uber uniques and then you have no use for them.
The game needs build slots. I have a pummel wearbear Druid. Hella fun but I want to do a storm Druid, wearwolf Druid, pet Druid, etc. it’s a pain in the ass to change all the gear and skills out. Not enough storage space to even do that for many characters. Let me save that build and start another on the same character. Let there be a 5 minute cooldown between swapping and presto…fun can be had by more. It’s not a fix but it’s a perk I want.
Your first mistake was thinking there's an endgame
Do the new ubers and unique get removed at the end of the season?
Eternal realm fodder basically
Yes, that’s the endgame, killing the maggot and the clay doll 10m times. Why do you think everyone complains the endgame?
I mean it’s been like that since D2…the only thing with D4 is you have to farm summoning materials, it’s the same concept just more leg work
There is a big difference tho; The itemization is much much better in D2. Hopeully there will be changes to this soon.
The point still stands though, you farm bosses in D2 to get better loot that helps you do what? Farm those bosses more?
I dont disagree. Its the same loop there, but more interesting itemization makes it more tolerable.
Yep so little uniques
I mean is it? You don’t need 50 different modifiers on your gear to be viable in D4 and that’s how D2 works, also I hate getting drops for necro while playing as a barb makes zero sense there may be a few things wrong with the itemization in D4 but for the most part it works just fine and people really only like D2 because of nostalgia the gameplay is clunky at best and the story was very meh and not enthralling enough to make me go “WOW!” And it’s literally the same grind as D4 except…you have to play the campaign over and over and over again and farm the same 3 bosses over and over again for a chance at shako or Andy’s.
I enjoy and played d2 classic and d2:R (1.8k hrs playtime on ps5) and I agree with this. I dont really get it when someone says that d2 has a better endgame than d4.
The grand irony is that if D2 was released as a new game today, it would get crucified for a lot of outdated systems and clumsy gameplay. D2 is a legend and deserves to be on the gaming HoF for sure, but it is definitely not a modern feel. So it seems what many people mean is they recall liking D2 endgame better "at the time", when they were 10/15/20/25 years old, than they like D4 endgame now when they are 30/35/40/45. Possibly while wearing rose tinted glasses. And while forgetting gamers tastes and expectations are vastly different now than 20+ years ago. As well as themselves being 20 years older. Yes, people play D2 now, and I'm sure some are truly die hard for it. I played it back in 2003 and have the redone version to mess around on now. I just don't buy the supposed mass appeal for it in the modern age. I mean, if people really did prefer D2 over any game made since, they can just go play it instead. It is right there.
We are here. We play both D2R, D4, D3, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch and Path of Exile. Worst part is msny people I discuss with here have D4 as their only ARPG and think they know the genre.
That's great. Perspective is definitely helpful. D2 was probably my first (if you don't count older stuff). Played torchlight 1 + 2, titans quest, some lesser known similar indie stuff. Then D3 and D4 now and again. Grim Dawn has been on my to do list. I'm never hard-core and more of a dabbler. That has made me pretty open minded and not really set on cheering for one IP over another. I mean really, who TF cares as long as it's fun for the time you are playing it.
I wouldnt call it nostalgia. My most recent season was season 4, half a year ago. Thing is that with trading you can actually work your way towards an Enigma with various activities. Love it. Atleast a 21 year older gsme had its charm compared to D4. But also play Last Epoch, Grim Dawn and PoE, so its not like Im one of those who only play D2 from beginning to end of my life. All good games with different strengths, but unfortunately D4 is on the short end at the moment. Hopefully the trajectory is upward.
Yes, it is like D2, but a very terrible replication. You can find something valuable from d2 bosses, runes, uniques, bases, but D4 Duriel are really only for Uber uniques, and the need to farm the fuking mats is Uber time consuming and Uber annoying. Almost every time he drops garbage. And why do you think farming the mat is fun? And why do you think killing a maggot in 3 seconds but need to a minute to walk to him is fun? There is no progression after Duriel, nothing. You can still progress after picking up your godly drop from D2 bosses, but nothing after D4 Duriel, at least at the moment.
I decided to just pay some hardcore characters now.
This wouldn't be much of a problem if summoning mats dropped once you were finished with XP, or even if all activities at level 100 rewarded them.
Diablo 4’s real end game is playing another game. Thank god for helldivers 2.
This is why when people tout D4's endgame, I'm baffled. There is no endgame to be found here. Spamming a single boss for an uber is pathetic. You spend more time gathering materials just to summon the dumb thing. And even if you do get one... then what? Back to NM? The thing you could already blast through?
There you have a point. My necromancer can walk through T100 Vaults since he was lvl 90. Of course, he wears shako, selig, Doombringer, Starless sky, varshans ring with 1.0 seconds turn and for bossfights the Grandfather. So i ask myself...why do i keep trying to find the stones?
I understand I made 22 passes yesterday evening alone, 57 total passes altogether so far, 8-10 passes at a go and with a group on Malphas and NOTHING. Some others have received a stone here and there, but personally holding a ZERO. For crying out loud, it's a 90-day season, I don't want to spend 89 days trying to get 2 impossible to get stones. Heck, I've gotten 9 Ubers off of Duriel. Malphas runs are a freaking JOKE..... CHANGE THE DROP RATE BLIZZARD!!!! Update: Well, after 16 more runs last night I finally got the Genesis stone.
..my words. I got 13!!! Ubers this season from Duriel when i ran around 100 runs but this Boss really sucks...and when running alone it is even more frustrating, to run through 4 dungeons, eventually meet the butcher and the son of Malphas (or both at the same time, like it happened to me one time) then kill the boss and get.....sh\*t ... come on!
Agreed!!
I just maxed all of my glyphs, I found myself asking the same question.
How do you get enough cores to run Malphas so much? I’m lvl 100 (solo player) and barely have enough for a few runs. I guess I’m not doing enough braziers cause I have several maxed glyphs and can run lvl 100 vaults but there’s nothing I know to do to get son of malphas to spawn..
Arcane tremors; I sit with like 150 igneous cores at all times, if you farm elemental cores to set off the braziers, and you have a 4 man group doing rotations you can get like 25-30 in like 20 mins
I'm sitting on 100+ cores and couldn't be bothered finding ppl to do some rotas.
I bought 190 cores for 665 million on Saturday morning at diablo.trade
Why not just give us huge ass dungeons with 3 4 bosses inside the dungeon in different areas of the dungeon My issue is dungeon and vaults are to short
Vault of the loom is pretty good. But you’re right it’s the only long vault/dungeon.
Yeah guess poe spoiled me I hated the complexity but doing maps was my fav part
Yep, the problem is that there‘s simply nothing you could use the ubers and/or stones for. In S2 the duriel grind was new so it was alright + we got AoZ what I really loved to run, but now it‘s just tedious without anything nice to do. S3 was promoted with the gauntlet, but they delayed it. I stopped farming duriel/malphas 2-3 weeks ago and hopped over to Last Epoch. But I‘d really love to get something new in D4 now what we can use as a nice gameplay-loop and a reason to farm duriel/malphas.
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i got 3 ubers harlequins crest, ring of starless skies and the andariels visage (guess i got lucky as shit but it ran out) ran a bunch of malphas on rogue and sorc did not get shit on any of them
Can you do lvl150 NMDs? Most likely yes. That's the actual usable endgame. There is literally zero reason beyond that to have Ubers or Unique stones except bragging rights. Make the right decision and start a new character or quit. Don't make your experience miserable.
Tbf S2 Endgame was just farming Uber uniques
For the first 2 months yeah. AoZ was the only thing we've had so far attempting to resemble an endgame system. People (other than barbs) had to actually theory craft and change their builds around to climb to t10+. Was really nice actually. S3's AoZ was supposed to be the Gauntlet but... lol. No idea when we'll get that, *if* we'll get that
Every season end game will likely be this (well, not stones, but some other thing)
I think our mindset is to forever grind this game, similar to D2/3. D4 is just built differently. I’m a casual couch dad gamer and I’ve really had enough of this season. Got 1 char to 100, max glyphs, complete nmd 100s etc. No desire to have another char. Will see what the next campfire chat will bring or just wait and see if S5 is worth returning to.
Just farm helltide, whispers, dungeons and bosses like the rest of us. It's a vicious loop as in other diablo games...
Wait, you're telling me Diablo 4 STILL deosn't have an end game? \*Surprised Pikachu face\*
May I suggest helldivers 2 for a much more fun grinding experience?
Thanks i will give it a try
You'd think you would farm gear to fight uber bosses rather than farming the uber bosses to get gear for....? We need new developers.
Omg this post is depressing. Do yourself a favor and got buy another game. See people wasting their lives on this unfinished game is sad.
Spoilers. That was S2 too.
No season two had a reason to get those Ubers. AoZ which was fun and it had progression built in with the new glyph. This season may someday have a dumb leaderboard but your character won't ever progress again this season.
AoZ? You mean the slightly harder NMD? Climbed to about 18 without much effort. And the glyph you level like the other 20 or so? Shit bro, I guess you're right. It wasnt the same at all, revolutionary.
No one said it was revolutionary but it was hard (especially if you weren't a HoTA barb) and a hell of a lot harder than anything else in the game.
It wasnt too bad on Wizard either. Wasnt there a druid hitting trillions too? All I'm saying is theres gotta be something better than the NMD version of a greater rift.
I completed the whole season journey, even the secret full completion bit the other night, gave away my left over summon mats and that's it for me for the season, zero unique glyphs and no ubers. No point grinding better gear forever when there's nothing like rifts to push.
S3 is a short one. I play a little here and there but there's nothing left to do really (I only do 1 HC class per session) No longevity to the mechanics this season really. Enjoyable while it lasted but I've no stomach for endless grinds. S4 will be a new day.
Y’all are farming stones? Lol
Sounds like it’s time to play a different game for now…
I did. Yesterday i bought and installed Last Epoche. Whoever gave me this hint, thanks so much!!!! Amazing game.
I did less than 100 duriel runs. I got 2 Uber and multiple people in the group as well
What endgame?
200 isn’t anything too crazy. I got evernight within my first 20 runs, didn’t get genesis until another 200+
I can’t stand doing Malphas rotas. Absolutely one of the worst things. It’s all RNG. Had a guy get both stones drop in first 10 runs. Myself, I have two chars and both have done 50 and gotten nothing. I much prefer doing Duriel, so that’s what I do for my end game now. I get both are rng but Duriel you might get a decent 925 to upgrade or trade. Also I like to do helltides and whispers so the mats aren’t a bother and I get enough in a week to so 10-20x rotas. Duriel himself it’s like 90sec each round which is a better investment in time than Malphas is.
True but regarding Duriel he dropped me 13!!! Ubers un the first 100 runs. No joke. My both chars have Selig, grandfather, Doombringer and shako. I took the remaining 3 Andariels, 1 Grandfather and 1 Selig, which was one before they set the speed to 26% so it sucked anyway and salvaged then to craft a starless ring for my necromancer. So to be honest there is no reason for me to run Duriel this season anymore.
You used all our luck lol 150 in and have 2. Shako I got on duriel one.
The funniest thing is that i was level 72 with my Barb when this happened and my best buddy who came with me with his 100 hota barb, i wouldn't have been able to kill Duriel at level 72, he didn't drop a single one while me dropped all the mentioned....after the 4th i didn't even mentioned when another one dropped to not annoy him \^\^ but still he calls me Mr Uber since this day.
I also did already like 200 Malphas runs and nothing, not one stone. Then my brother in law joined with a level 75 sorcerer. I was there for him, I carried him, I went for 3 of the keys during he was getting one to kick malphas ass. We did 7 runs! 7!!! He got both stones… I was about to cry.
Like s1 or s2 were different lol 😂
D4 has no end game. It is known for time being.
Having a seasonal mechanic that you cant fully experience because of very high drop rates is the dumbest thing.
That's the biggest problem for me as well. I would definitely like there to be enough challenges in the game after you have mostly completed your character and reached level 100. Even before that, I would like to have more good intermediate challenges. Maybe new significantly more challenging, interesting and rewarding bosses (No Echo of Lilith style impossible ones). WT5 and so on.
D4 s3 end game is called last epoch
And rolling a new character.
still 2 months left??? O M G
The dumb thing is you’re farming for Uber stones that after this season will disappear
Run lil hamster run. Turn that wheel grind it out as big daddy Blizzard gets off to your futile efforts.
You finished the season, play something else and come back in April. That is how seasons work.
Give us something to do or work towards in our clans. Everything can be done without a clan. As of right now, clans have no objective in-game. ALSO....SHOW US HOW LONG CLAN MEMBERS HAVE BEEN OFFLINE....Why you would not have this is beyond me.
This is what I do each season. I play a new build, I reach level 100, I complete the season pass, I complete the seasonal chapters for the rewards and then I solo Uber Lilith. I run a few durials to get some good gear for my build, and then I'm off till the next season. This roughly takes 50-70 hours.
Which is why I skipped this season. I did the uber grinding last season, and spent hours on Duriel. Over and over and over again. Not this time. There are other games that respect my time more.
There was supposed to be a leader board too. I wonder if they will remember to drop loot at the end of the timed run, or if it will just be a race with no rewards. When I think of how things will be implemented into D4, I tend to go with the version that is least rewarding, least fun, nonsensical way of doing said thing. Also leader boards probably not until end of season or season 4, so really... enjoy duriel rotas for the next 2 months I guess.
Two lvl 100 characters and I haven't reached 100 with a single one since release. People are crazy
You have to set priorities. I stand up 2 hours earlier in the morning to play before i go to work . After work i play 3 hours til my wife has dinner ready . After dinner no playing-family time 😁
D4 clearly launched way too early, and with the teams changing over it’s very evident the game wasn’t complete. Realistically it should have been delayed at least one more year to build more content, balance, itemization, QOL. There’s no long grind and the game is basically a 80 hour per character/per season game. It’s not a 500-1000 hour grind like other ARPG’s. AOZ was the closest we had for a reason to build up a character, get BIS & Ubers, but it was a long shot off of an acceptable end game. As harsh as it sounds it will likely take a full year and 1-2 expansions before we see any impactful changes for more endgame options.
A 500-1000 hour grind for a 3 month season would be extremely stupid. You are talking 40+ hrs a week. A game should not have a grind that is basically a full time job. It's a seasonal game and they expect people to hit their seasonal milestones, set the game down, and come back for the next season.
Oh, look, [ANOTHER person](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1avrfds/who_came_up_with_this_brilliant_idea/) saying they ran Malphas 200 times without a unique stone dropping. Sorry, the math ain't mathing on that one. The odds of 200 malphas runs without a single unique stone dropping in any of them is \~1.87 in ***ONE MILLION*** chance. Yes I already did the math for that. So yeah, I call bullshit on that.
Where are you getting this number from? Did devs ever give the odds for a unique stone drop?
Yes, 3% chance for each of the 2 chests, and 0.5% for malphas himself.