Agreed. They need to do another tuning pass on uniques. Update the worthless ones and improve their affix range at the Ancestral rank to make them competitive with the double tempering.
I don’t want to temper uniques. I just want to feel good when I see one drop instead of salvaging/selling it.
Adding another affix to it (but not chosen via tempering, determined for the unique like the others) would also help a lot to make them have the same number of affixes than the tempered legendaries.
Also maybe make a special version of masterworking for it. Say you need to destroy other uniques to improve the stats of the affixes on yours with various ever more costly tiers
The problem I see is some of the weapon tempering is basically like a second affix. They would need to massively buff even stuff like grandfather to make it compete with say 200% bash damage aoe, that can be masterworked further.
Agreed. I'd rather revamp these uniques altogether than do some half-cooked bandaind fix. Kind of hilarious you can get like +20% dual wield damage or +20% core skill damage or +20% non-physical damage on some uniques and then temper like +100% of some other stat on regular gear instead.
They should have something ... Unique apart from basically just an exclusive codex drop you can't extract.
I like it when they get more exotic stats that aren't usually on that item type
I guess I can’t help but imagine it’s alot more work to go and retune every individual unique and worry they would only retune a limited number but i get where you’re coming from, as someone pointed out on here it’s more of a bandaid fix which I fully agree,but it is smth at least. They could flat buff affixes as well and mb that cld work mb but that yh idk exactly how much it’d have to be to properly justify choosing a majority of uniques over tempers
At some point it’s worth doing. Other games in the genre revisit old underpowered uniques from time to time, and it’s quite exciting when they enable new builds.
Yeah but so far in D4 the only way we've seen that happen is by changing the unique ability, not the stats really.
They would have to really juice up the unique abilities for it to make up for the lack of two really good tempering affixes.
I feel like their affix stats need to be revised too. Bloodless Scream at 925 has like 72 int. My regular old legendary has 150 before upgrades.
Ideally they could address the affix values, and add 1 or 2 temper slots to them so they can compete with regular items.
A lot of them are build defining and those builds are dead atm.
I'm sure they'll get to it at some point.
Yh some affixes in the uniques defo need retuning for sure, but I could more easily accept the cost of not necessarily having the right affixes etc, if we cld at least not lose out on the +100% damage on specific skills.
No, I already hate bricking my greater affix legendaries don’t make me have the same fomo with uniques. Plus they’re unique they shouldn’t have any crafting on them.
Yeah, got a new item. Rolled Damage while Rage of the berserker is active. Don't use that at all, still use the item. Ofc I will change that, but an upgrade is an upgrade and since dmg is not my main shortcoming I will take more defenses (like life) where I get them.
You’ve just described the endgame for every ARPG and looter shooter.
When you’re going against level 200 mobs at level 100 then, yes, getting some otherwise fantastic item and then rolling relatively bad tempers definitely can be said to “brick” the item because you need to squeeze every last ounce of power out of that item to be able to run the highest content and that item is no longer fit for that task.
If you’re running level 50 pits or whatever, who cares? But 90s? Yeah, you can definitely put some work into an item and have it come out useless for the task.
Ooh ya, u’re right, u should instantly get max gear so can stomp lvl 200 mobs at lvl 100. Every drop u get should be bis otherwise u just get useless bricks once u hit uber lategame
Pop a quote up where I’m at all making that argument. You are retreating from your initial position that items like this cannot be bricked because it’s both a bad position and you are not clever enough to make a decent argument for a bad position.
Instead you move the goal posts by clumsily trying to impute an argument to me that I didn’t make. It’s fairly low effort and an entirely failed attempt at a rebuttal.
People using it like PoE when it's not the same. Bricking kn PoE is a true brick. In D4 you have an item with an undesirable stat. It's not the same.
Not saying one game is better than the other. Just pointing it out for people who don't know
"Bricked" in PoE is not when you get an undesirable affix. Bricked is when your affix breaks the item, or your crafting method corrupts the item without giving you the thing you're looking for
If it can be scoured or annulled, it isn't bricked, you're just poor.
A modifier such as heartseeker casts twice on your two-hand main weapon will brick your item if you don’t get it.
It’s literally double damage for those builds, as an example.
Yes but the way to think about it is that you get 5 affixes. Once you reach high levels it's quite likely that you have 5 useful affixes (inc tempering) on your gear. Therefore if tempering messes up you have a piece with only 4 affixes so it will likely be a downgrade from the piece you want to replace
When crafting in ARPGs, once it becomes impossible to achieve the desired crafting outcome, that item is considered “bricked” for crafting. Doesn’t mean it can’t be used or in other games, traded / sold.
Interestingly I am in exactly that situation, missed the double heartseeker. The new bow is still significantly better than the old. Once I am getting end game level gear and am getting bows that are only slightly different, missing the temper probably makes the item useless to me, compared to the one I would be using, but I still wouldn't call it bricked.
Prime example, playing Frozen Orb, targeting the temper which grants a chance for Frozen Orb to be cast twice and instead hitting increased Blizzard damage. I don’t use Blizzard..
The amount of weapons and off-hands I’ve bricked is racking up!
Bob's grandfather with +200% close damage will out-dps your grandfather with +% resource on lucky hit.
It's pretty clear logic. I wish people understood this when they ask why they call it bricked.
Because its bricked.
Good for Bob, my grandfather isn’t bricked because his is better though. Bricked means it’s completely useless and idk about you but I’d take a grandfather with a shitty tempered affix over no Uber at all.
Your grandfather is bricked because when it rolls a bad tempered affix it becomes not just worse than Bob's grandfather, it becomes worse than a standard 925 non-unique with the correct tempered affixes. If you feel like it's no big deal to equip items that make your character weaker, that's obviously your call, but for many once an item becomes a permanent downgrade, it's bricked.
>it becomes worse than a standard 925 non-unique with the correct tempered affixes.
Ok, but that's how all uniques are now since you can't temper them at all, so being able to temper them would literally only be an improvement.
I don't see an issue with allowing uniques to be tempered either, I'd even welcome it, but I was replying to someone who said he'd still take a grandfather with a shitty tempered affix over no grandfather at all. Pointing out that he'd be nerfing his character by using a grandfather with a shitty affix over a non-unique 925 item with a good affix isn't wrong.
Take it up with the rest of the subreddit, I'm not the one who started using it first. And I don't see an issue with calling a permanently inferior item that you'll never equip bricked.
I mean maybe they could lower the rng aspect on uniques’ tempering so at least the ranges are random or I think as someone else mentioned here, they could even have thier own special affixes (though that would be a lot more work for blizzard) but I don’t get your point about crafting? Do u mean it shouldn’t be customisable and if so why? I mean surely u could argue masterworking is it’s own form of crafting?
In Poe, you can corrupt uniques to potentially get really good implicits, project Diablo 2 has the same thing. I'd like to have something similar here. Makes finding uniques fun.
I don't like this solution, it's a very lazy band aid.
Uniques should be more like tempest roar, enabling different playstyles and making the trade off with tempering worth (but not necessarily stronger).
The issue is that many of them are either outdated, or they were bad from the beginning.
Looking at barb, for instance, the new pants are dead on arrival, 100000 steps are a joke, Gohr's have been crippled since launch (and have stupid stats), and the list can go for the majority of barb uniques.
What was bis uniques in prior seasons are useless now, aka grandfather. It's not just ones being bad from the begining but weapon specific tempers acting as a second affix and just outstating anything a unique weapon could possibly offer.
Fully agree it’s a band aid solution, I just feel it’s the only way we can realistically get the issue addressed before the season is halfway over if not in season 5. Also I’d worry many uniques would get left behind if they went around retuning every single one, but I do agree it would be better if more uniques were as integral and offered as much build diversity as persay tempest roar
I get your point, although I think this will never happen within season 4.
I'm quite sure even after rework many uniques will remain barely playable (I'm looking at you, windforce) anyways, but we'll see.
My guess is we will get more loot updates before the expansion, kinda like loot 2.0 in d3 before RoS launch, hopefully uniques overhaul and something to do with rares.
Yeah normal uniques are imo now scrap metal. There are maybe 3-4 overal worth using for specific builds. They might need to redisign them a bit to compensate for new crafting.
uniques are uniques that grant unique powers, but the cost is simply really high. for example on my boots. i cant afford to use a unique with no movespeed.
I feel like that would be a good temporary fix, however I would like them to just go all out on the uniquesness of the item.
Like an example could be fleshrender which scales with willpower but has no willpower stats. How about we give it a high % willpower increase kind of like amulets, making it the only weapon that can have % willpower.
Exactly. I've made a very similar post a few days ago. Dropped a Grandfather, got so excited but found out it's only slightly better than a usual 2hander because it cant be tempered...
I'm scared this would lead to a situation where uniques are just "better" than legendary gear. I really hope they don't do this.
Full uniques should never be BiS. 1 or maybe 2 per build is fine. If you can "afford" to run more in your build that's a balancing issue in my eyes.
I get that as well, but many legendary aspects are just as competitive with a lot of unique effects not to mention jsut one tempering slot still can have alot for most builds, so I feel there would still be a lot of weighing up to do. Mb they could reign in the tempered affixes slightly if they felt too much worry about this, but I think they’re should defo be more cases in build crafting rn where I’m encouraged to run a unique
Regular ones no but I'd say Uber uniques the default should very much be to equip it if it's even somewhat relevant to your build. But right now it's really shako or bust.
It doesn’t really fit the vision the devs said themselves about uniques then though does it in regard to offering exciting new exploration for build crafting because any end result is limited when we consider what’s being lost, especially on the offensive items
I disagree—they should just be significantly better to begin with. If you see one drop, and the use is remotely applicable to your class, it shouldn’t be a significant power decrease to equip one because you lose aspect and temper.
I don't think we should be able to temper them, as it would cause them to lose their unique identity. Every Legendary and Unique item in Diablo 4 can be Masterworked and I think that is enough.
No top tier Barb builds this season are using grandfather, so masterworking is obviously not enough. You can debate on how good normal uniques should be vs a bis legendary drop, but THE stat stick on a class with room for 4 stat sticks should very much be a default to to.
Uniques need buffing of their existing affixes. Blizzard's philosophy for Uniques is that they won't require a bunch of crafting. All other items already do. Uniques are supposed to be easy to equip as they drop, and to be different from other items. I think that's a good thing.
Most normal affixes on uniques are very low now compared to those on legendaries. I'm seeing stuff like +25% damage to vulnerable on a unique, but +80% on a legendary. I think the solution lies there. And not through any player action or crafting - we should just log in after a patch and see our Uniques be stronger right away. So that people don't have to grind them all again for the better versions. Many affixes on uniques should be doubled, or thereabouts.
Don\`t need temper, just buff the affixes, like +50%. They feel like a sacred item now, so underwhelming. Most of the time the special effect doesn\`t worth the tradeoff.
That would make them not unique at all. They’re already given most just have normal affixes on them boring and unique. Having every piece of gear have an aspect and two tempers needs to change. Back some of that off but buff to compensate
In my opinion most tempers are way more impactful for weapons and jewelry, unless the unique effect is absolutely needed for a build, why would you ever drop over 200% bonus damage potential from one temper slot, for a generic unique effect, armor tempers aren’t as detrimental since they’re mainly utility/defensive based, but any unique weapon or piece of jewelry outside of grandfather/starless skies is negatively impactful for sure. Adding one temper slot to them would keep them in that strong threshold, without making most of them too op.
Uniques and legendaries finally have distinct identities don’t ruin it with this garbage.
They’ve said they are considering some different system for “working” uniques and that’s cool but honestly it just feels like all the uniques need a pass of updating the affixes with better affixes with larger ranges and they’d be fine.
I don’t want to see the return of everyone using the same uniques in every build frankly. I think all uniques should either be class specific uniques with powerful and interesting effects that enable new playstyles or uber uniques that are good for lots of builds but are chase items.
That “distinction” in identies is currently making them straight up worse options 90% of the time rn. I agree maybe some retuning of affixes could help address the disparity in thier power 90% of the time but it’s probably a lot more work to retune every single one hence why I feel at least as a stopgap fix for the current season, this offers a compromised solution.
I think for anything that is labeled as "armor" (helm, chest, boots) the lost power of tempering is limited. For jewelry, weapons and gloves its really really hard to argue for a unique, as these are the slots with the most powerful tempers (at least for a Necro, no clue on other classes).
Unique items have been problematic since the start of the game imo. They are legendaries but with less options especially with the introduction of the aspect system in D4. You can’t move them freely to different slots and fixed stats are a lot of the time undesirable. So unless the power of the unique is critical to a build, it’s not worth using over a legendary.
There need to be another mechanic introduced that is unique for unique items that make them more desirable. As they are currently it just feel like a relic of the past from D2 that struggle to fit in to the modern day diablo. I would hate to say to bring back the kunai cube from D3 as that would just be a mindless power spike and not a new idea.
Why is that the point of uniques? The devs said the point of uniques were to offer exciting build crafting experiences is what I thought they said (or something along those lines, I can’t quite remember)
Hard disagree, that is the only thing that makes Uber Uniques balanced. Normal Uniques have the function to be build enable, so they should be weak in affixes but strong in the unique power.
I'd prefer something cool like Last Epoch's (essentially) smash greater affix legendaries onto uniques with legendary potential system, which does a fab job of making you go oooh when you find a unique while keeping the gear chase going. Maybe this is too complex for Diablo, which has no loot filter, but it's fun.
I would prefer if Uniques were just stronger. Blue Rose is a great example - supposed to be great for Blizzard Sorc, except a regular ring with aspect and Tempering blows it out of the water.
They need to buff the stats and make small the range of the stats or at least make them perfect roll like some uniques, before yesterday i wasted all my irons and just got some unique ring with you know good and bad stats, anyway they need to do something
Nah uniques should be uniques they just need a pass of affix check. Make the affixes better and higher number. Get rid of useless affixes so masterworking is easier.
Uniq should legit have some random stats on it for exemple one have guaranteed crit strike, crit damage and can also roll those stats a second time if you are extremely lucky or not even the same one just other stats. Kinda lame that they are always the same. The game viability is so low yet they run a store in it but won’t be able to retain the players.
Uniques should have their affixes tuned up. Make it so their range can net higher than a non-GA legendary, and a GA puts them 25-50% higher than what is possible on a legendary.
On top of that, I think they should have their own crafting system. Add a material to the pit that allows you to power up their Unique Power. Make it drop at like 80+ or something like that.
I’m confused what is ur argument? All ancestral gear starts to drop equippable at 55 (not even 60) and the drops at ur current level from them on. I don’t get what ur point is tho?
So you get more use out of them. Legendary affixes are generally stronger. Uniques are Unique for the only reason is that is the only piece of gear you can get it on. I agree they should be allowed a Temper. Sacred are locked at 80. If they locked Uniques behind 80, they’d be useless as affixes at that range are generally stronger than the Unique affix
Wait what is locked at 80? Afaik the only thing locked at 80 is Uber uniques dropping in general gameplay (not even at Uber bosses) and even then I’m not 100% sure that’s the case anymore. But it seems u agree with the idea that they are too weak at the endgame to justify using so am it seems we mostly agree
Ancestral gear is the highest tier of gear, and your right it can go up to a level req of 80 but that level req will match the level u obtain the gear on. So if ur level 55 the same ancestral gear will drop at a req of 55 (which is the lowest ancestral’s req can drop at). Additionally the level req it drops with or your level doesn’t actually seem to affect the stats like item power, instead that depend more on the level of the enemies who drop it.
I got a whole stash full of gear my my 75 Barb can’t equip even tho my 100 Barb can. Drives me nuts at this stage of the game that I have to keep farming lol
Yh it’s annoying, not sure exactly what the motivation behind it is either except maybe to discourage handing down op gear to other people who are just level 55 but idk it’s not even that hard to level up anymore
They should just get a 5th affix to keep them in line with the 5 lines we currently get on legendaries. Seems like the easiest solution to me.
And revisiting the values of course.
Uniques still have their four affixes while regular items got nerfed into having only 3. They are therefore able of having 4 greater affixes, which is yet another layer of advantage that uniques have over legendaries.
Tempering is literally the only advantage legendaries have over Uniques, adding even 1 slot to them is just overkill.
Anyone who still thinks Uniques got shafted by this item rework should be a little more observant.
I guess it comes down to the feeling that uniques are not in the right place power-wise for many of them. Despite often having 4 affixes they are often still just a bit weaker than the 5 affixes we get from a tempered legendary.
Some of our tempering affixes are so strong that they dwarf the power on some uniques now, like the chance to double cast on weapons - Basically can't replace that unless the unique effect is worth more than double damage.
I'm shocked this got missed on ptr. Surely people brought this up during testing? It's not game breaking but I'd really like to be excited about uniques instead of shrugging off 9 out of 10 that drop.
I’d prefer they buffed the uniques that need it rather than give them tempering.
I do think there should be a balance that discourages players from just rocking all uniques though. We’re a bit over tuned in the legendary direction right now but I don’t want to see it go back too far the other way.
It's a tradeoff - unique power not found anywhere else or better / more aligned stats. I think that's OK, as long as we get more build defining / buffed uniques so they are actually a valid alternative.
No, because you can brick ubers this way. No way in hell.
Instead I want them to allow us to re-roll tempers. With a very high cost.
I hate bricking items. It feels so bad. Gold sink is a good enough penalty.
I agree bricking feels bad, and mb they could lower the rng aspect of unique tempering but I can tell u it won’t feel any less bad that losing ur perfect greater affix roll either on your legendaries. I agree tho there shld defo be some way, even if crazy expensive that lets get an additional temper, maybe locked all the way in the deepest depths of the pit but yh it is what it is
Absolutely not. If anything, tempering needs adjusting because right now it's an extremely easy way to make an overwhelmingly strong item without any thinking involved.
Uniques should be items that are worthless to many players but BIS/build enabling for some of them, except some funny gigachad chase items.
Generally, uniques should be more like an altering your playstyle item, not something incredible powerful just because of its class but it's more of a problem with the itemisation rework. Right now you can slap some life, damage reduction and armour on 2 items and you're capped, the rest is damage on damage on damage on damage so yeah, uniques looks pretty weak when compared to new tempered items, because in D4 uniques gives just damage in most cases.
otherwise they would have to compete with Legendary class (which is pinnacle of a build right now) and I don't think that's a good idea.
legendaries should compete with legendaries and uniques should be occasionally as good or a better choice for some than legendary
but looking at current iteration of D4 uniques i think it will never happen, they will just buff the damage numbers, then buff damage on aspects, then buff damage on uniques, then..
Being able to temper something and being unique doesn’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. Legendaries and uniques can both drop with greater affixes, should we remove that functionality from uniques to make them more “unique”? Blizzard has lit said they wanted getting a unique to be an exciting experience in terms of build crafting, but as of rn it fails in that role 90% of the time.
I want to use a grandfather but can't justify losing the tempers, I agree. Either uniques need to be buffed even HARDER or you should be able to temper otherwise they lose appeal.
I am a barb, a bash barb. still hard to justify if 100%x crit damage will beat 200% dmg to close enemies, bash cleaving for 200% dmg, 150% crit dmg, and losing 60 percent attack speed due to my rapid aspect. If anything the multiple weapons is just more reason to use tempered legendaries. It just kinda sucks because I've been wanting to use the grandfather since the beginning and now that I can finally make it ill be weaker by using it lmao
On top of the tempered affixes, Uniques often feel lackluster because of missing out on Legenedary Aspects. Aspects should *be in the damn skill tree* and not on your gear in the first place.
It's a fundamental design flaw with D4 since day 1 IMO.
Yup, uniques needs something now as most of it are just outright worse than tempered especially in offensive slots.
No, they should just have improved affixes and powers so they are worth using. Tempering would make them less unique.
Agreed. They need to do another tuning pass on uniques. Update the worthless ones and improve their affix range at the Ancestral rank to make them competitive with the double tempering. I don’t want to temper uniques. I just want to feel good when I see one drop instead of salvaging/selling it.
Adding another affix to it (but not chosen via tempering, determined for the unique like the others) would also help a lot to make them have the same number of affixes than the tempered legendaries. Also maybe make a special version of masterworking for it. Say you need to destroy other uniques to improve the stats of the affixes on yours with various ever more costly tiers
The problem I see is some of the weapon tempering is basically like a second affix. They would need to massively buff even stuff like grandfather to make it compete with say 200% bash damage aoe, that can be masterworked further.
Agreed. I'd rather revamp these uniques altogether than do some half-cooked bandaind fix. Kind of hilarious you can get like +20% dual wield damage or +20% core skill damage or +20% non-physical damage on some uniques and then temper like +100% of some other stat on regular gear instead.
They should have something ... Unique apart from basically just an exclusive codex drop you can't extract. I like it when they get more exotic stats that aren't usually on that item type
I guess I can’t help but imagine it’s alot more work to go and retune every individual unique and worry they would only retune a limited number but i get where you’re coming from, as someone pointed out on here it’s more of a bandaid fix which I fully agree,but it is smth at least. They could flat buff affixes as well and mb that cld work mb but that yh idk exactly how much it’d have to be to properly justify choosing a majority of uniques over tempers
At some point it’s worth doing. Other games in the genre revisit old underpowered uniques from time to time, and it’s quite exciting when they enable new builds.
Yeah but so far in D4 the only way we've seen that happen is by changing the unique ability, not the stats really. They would have to really juice up the unique abilities for it to make up for the lack of two really good tempering affixes.
I feel like their affix stats need to be revised too. Bloodless Scream at 925 has like 72 int. My regular old legendary has 150 before upgrades. Ideally they could address the affix values, and add 1 or 2 temper slots to them so they can compete with regular items. A lot of them are build defining and those builds are dead atm. I'm sure they'll get to it at some point.
Yeah the int stat on some is stupidly low compared to the legendary items.
Yh some affixes in the uniques defo need retuning for sure, but I could more easily accept the cost of not necessarily having the right affixes etc, if we cld at least not lose out on the +100% damage on specific skills.
No, I already hate bricking my greater affix legendaries don’t make me have the same fomo with uniques. Plus they’re unique they shouldn’t have any crafting on them.
I get not wanting to mess with uniques, but how would you be able to brick one if it’s just another free affix?
People call everything brick now-days when it’s not max rolled, people are shit so they need every item perfect to be able to play the game
Wait until one of them get an Uber with 3/4 GA lol
Into the trash with you.
Yeah, got a new item. Rolled Damage while Rage of the berserker is active. Don't use that at all, still use the item. Ofc I will change that, but an upgrade is an upgrade and since dmg is not my main shortcoming I will take more defenses (like life) where I get them.
You’ve just described the endgame for every ARPG and looter shooter. When you’re going against level 200 mobs at level 100 then, yes, getting some otherwise fantastic item and then rolling relatively bad tempers definitely can be said to “brick” the item because you need to squeeze every last ounce of power out of that item to be able to run the highest content and that item is no longer fit for that task. If you’re running level 50 pits or whatever, who cares? But 90s? Yeah, you can definitely put some work into an item and have it come out useless for the task.
Ooh ya, u’re right, u should instantly get max gear so can stomp lvl 200 mobs at lvl 100. Every drop u get should be bis otherwise u just get useless bricks once u hit uber lategame
Pop a quote up where I’m at all making that argument. You are retreating from your initial position that items like this cannot be bricked because it’s both a bad position and you are not clever enough to make a decent argument for a bad position. Instead you move the goal posts by clumsily trying to impute an argument to me that I didn’t make. It’s fairly low effort and an entirely failed attempt at a rebuttal.
Okay buddy
People using it like PoE when it's not the same. Bricking kn PoE is a true brick. In D4 you have an item with an undesirable stat. It's not the same. Not saying one game is better than the other. Just pointing it out for people who don't know
That is how AARPGs have always worked. Don't get so angry over things that don't affect you, it's embarrassing for you.
Yes i’m super angry?
Yes, when you need to call people shit b.c you don't like that they don't do the same thing as you, is you being angry.
But now you’re angry at him being angry about people being angry. When will this vicious cycle ever end!!!
Ya, i must be angry for calling out the obvious
Yea the obvious is you don't like when people don't do things the way you want.
Don’t forget the part where i’m obviously mad
Yea everyone knows that.
"Bricked" in PoE is not when you get an undesirable affix. Bricked is when your affix breaks the item, or your crafting method corrupts the item without giving you the thing you're looking for If it can be scoured or annulled, it isn't bricked, you're just poor.
[удалено]
That's literally the point for most PvE games. Think you lost the /s.
A modifier such as heartseeker casts twice on your two-hand main weapon will brick your item if you don’t get it. It’s literally double damage for those builds, as an example.
Brick = become useless?
Yes but the way to think about it is that you get 5 affixes. Once you reach high levels it's quite likely that you have 5 useful affixes (inc tempering) on your gear. Therefore if tempering messes up you have a piece with only 4 affixes so it will likely be a downgrade from the piece you want to replace
When crafting in ARPGs, once it becomes impossible to achieve the desired crafting outcome, that item is considered “bricked” for crafting. Doesn’t mean it can’t be used or in other games, traded / sold.
Thanks, last ARPG i played before D4 was d2 so i didn't know this term. It makes sense now.
Interestingly I am in exactly that situation, missed the double heartseeker. The new bow is still significantly better than the old. Once I am getting end game level gear and am getting bows that are only slightly different, missing the temper probably makes the item useless to me, compared to the one I would be using, but I still wouldn't call it bricked.
Prime example, playing Frozen Orb, targeting the temper which grants a chance for Frozen Orb to be cast twice and instead hitting increased Blizzard damage. I don’t use Blizzard.. The amount of weapons and off-hands I’ve bricked is racking up!
Bob's grandfather with +200% close damage will out-dps your grandfather with +% resource on lucky hit. It's pretty clear logic. I wish people understood this when they ask why they call it bricked. Because its bricked.
That’s not what bricked means at all. Bricked means it’s unusable, not that better ones exist.
Good for Bob, my grandfather isn’t bricked because his is better though. Bricked means it’s completely useless and idk about you but I’d take a grandfather with a shitty tempered affix over no Uber at all.
Your grandfather is bricked because when it rolls a bad tempered affix it becomes not just worse than Bob's grandfather, it becomes worse than a standard 925 non-unique with the correct tempered affixes. If you feel like it's no big deal to equip items that make your character weaker, that's obviously your call, but for many once an item becomes a permanent downgrade, it's bricked.
>it becomes worse than a standard 925 non-unique with the correct tempered affixes. Ok, but that's how all uniques are now since you can't temper them at all, so being able to temper them would literally only be an improvement.
It would be an improvement to the item itself, but you still wouldn't use it if the tempered affix was bad, so the item would still be bricked.
Yeah I guess I just don't really see anything wrong with that since it would still be an improvement over where we are now with uniques.
I don't see an issue with allowing uniques to be tempered either, I'd even welcome it, but I was replying to someone who said he'd still take a grandfather with a shitty tempered affix over no grandfather at all. Pointing out that he'd be nerfing his character by using a grandfather with a shitty affix over a non-unique 925 item with a good affix isn't wrong.
I don’t think you understand what the term bricked means.
Take it up with the rest of the subreddit, I'm not the one who started using it first. And I don't see an issue with calling a permanently inferior item that you'll never equip bricked.
I mean maybe they could lower the rng aspect on uniques’ tempering so at least the ranges are random or I think as someone else mentioned here, they could even have thier own special affixes (though that would be a lot more work for blizzard) but I don’t get your point about crafting? Do u mean it shouldn’t be customisable and if so why? I mean surely u could argue masterworking is it’s own form of crafting?
This is simply fixed by allowing more tempering with another resource, maybe not gold but something
In Poe, you can corrupt uniques to potentially get really good implicits, project Diablo 2 has the same thing. I'd like to have something similar here. Makes finding uniques fun.
Completely different economy unfortunately. Being able to sell and buy any item in that game makes it a lot easier to do stuff like that
I don't like this solution, it's a very lazy band aid. Uniques should be more like tempest roar, enabling different playstyles and making the trade off with tempering worth (but not necessarily stronger). The issue is that many of them are either outdated, or they were bad from the beginning. Looking at barb, for instance, the new pants are dead on arrival, 100000 steps are a joke, Gohr's have been crippled since launch (and have stupid stats), and the list can go for the majority of barb uniques.
What was bis uniques in prior seasons are useless now, aka grandfather. It's not just ones being bad from the begining but weapon specific tempers acting as a second affix and just outstating anything a unique weapon could possibly offer.
Fully agree it’s a band aid solution, I just feel it’s the only way we can realistically get the issue addressed before the season is halfway over if not in season 5. Also I’d worry many uniques would get left behind if they went around retuning every single one, but I do agree it would be better if more uniques were as integral and offered as much build diversity as persay tempest roar
Lol they aren't making a major change like that mid season. It's not even a good fix imo.
I get your point, although I think this will never happen within season 4. I'm quite sure even after rework many uniques will remain barely playable (I'm looking at you, windforce) anyways, but we'll see. My guess is we will get more loot updates before the expansion, kinda like loot 2.0 in d3 before RoS launch, hopefully uniques overhaul and something to do with rares.
Yeah normal uniques are imo now scrap metal. There are maybe 3-4 overal worth using for specific builds. They might need to redisign them a bit to compensate for new crafting.
uniques are uniques that grant unique powers, but the cost is simply really high. for example on my boots. i cant afford to use a unique with no movespeed.
I feel like that would be a good temporary fix, however I would like them to just go all out on the uniquesness of the item. Like an example could be fleshrender which scales with willpower but has no willpower stats. How about we give it a high % willpower increase kind of like amulets, making it the only weapon that can have % willpower.
Yh I agree, I’d defo encourage them to make uniques more like ones such as tempest roar
No they shouldn't
Aight good point
Exactly. I've made a very similar post a few days ago. Dropped a Grandfather, got so excited but found out it's only slightly better than a usual 2hander because it cant be tempered...
Yh the cost of missing out on an 2x aspect and 2 tempers is just so huge honestly
I'm scared this would lead to a situation where uniques are just "better" than legendary gear. I really hope they don't do this. Full uniques should never be BiS. 1 or maybe 2 per build is fine. If you can "afford" to run more in your build that's a balancing issue in my eyes.
I get that as well, but many legendary aspects are just as competitive with a lot of unique effects not to mention jsut one tempering slot still can have alot for most builds, so I feel there would still be a lot of weighing up to do. Mb they could reign in the tempered affixes slightly if they felt too much worry about this, but I think they’re should defo be more cases in build crafting rn where I’m encouraged to run a unique
Regular ones no but I'd say Uber uniques the default should very much be to equip it if it's even somewhat relevant to your build. But right now it's really shako or bust.
People complain about uniques being useless... They are not useless, you can get nice gold for selling them to vendor...
At the very least, they should be making masterworking give 10% buff each time vs 5%
So let unique not be unique…. If you don’t like skill on unique,, put on only legendary…
It doesn’t really fit the vision the devs said themselves about uniques then though does it in regard to offering exciting new exploration for build crafting because any end result is limited when we consider what’s being lost, especially on the offensive items
I disagree—they should just be significantly better to begin with. If you see one drop, and the use is remotely applicable to your class, it shouldn’t be a significant power decrease to equip one because you lose aspect and temper.
I don't think we should be able to temper them, as it would cause them to lose their unique identity. Every Legendary and Unique item in Diablo 4 can be Masterworked and I think that is enough.
No top tier Barb builds this season are using grandfather, so masterworking is obviously not enough. You can debate on how good normal uniques should be vs a bis legendary drop, but THE stat stick on a class with room for 4 stat sticks should very much be a default to to.
Uniques need buffing of their existing affixes. Blizzard's philosophy for Uniques is that they won't require a bunch of crafting. All other items already do. Uniques are supposed to be easy to equip as they drop, and to be different from other items. I think that's a good thing. Most normal affixes on uniques are very low now compared to those on legendaries. I'm seeing stuff like +25% damage to vulnerable on a unique, but +80% on a legendary. I think the solution lies there. And not through any player action or crafting - we should just log in after a patch and see our Uniques be stronger right away. So that people don't have to grind them all again for the better versions. Many affixes on uniques should be doubled, or thereabouts.
Don\`t need temper, just buff the affixes, like +50%. They feel like a sacred item now, so underwhelming. Most of the time the special effect doesn\`t worth the tradeoff.
That would make them not unique at all. They’re already given most just have normal affixes on them boring and unique. Having every piece of gear have an aspect and two tempers needs to change. Back some of that off but buff to compensate
As it currently stands uniques are nowhere near as strong as leggos, much higher range on their stats and more of them.
In my opinion most tempers are way more impactful for weapons and jewelry, unless the unique effect is absolutely needed for a build, why would you ever drop over 200% bonus damage potential from one temper slot, for a generic unique effect, armor tempers aren’t as detrimental since they’re mainly utility/defensive based, but any unique weapon or piece of jewelry outside of grandfather/starless skies is negatively impactful for sure. Adding one temper slot to them would keep them in that strong threshold, without making most of them too op.
Uniques and legendaries finally have distinct identities don’t ruin it with this garbage. They’ve said they are considering some different system for “working” uniques and that’s cool but honestly it just feels like all the uniques need a pass of updating the affixes with better affixes with larger ranges and they’d be fine. I don’t want to see the return of everyone using the same uniques in every build frankly. I think all uniques should either be class specific uniques with powerful and interesting effects that enable new playstyles or uber uniques that are good for lots of builds but are chase items.
That “distinction” in identies is currently making them straight up worse options 90% of the time rn. I agree maybe some retuning of affixes could help address the disparity in thier power 90% of the time but it’s probably a lot more work to retune every single one hence why I feel at least as a stopgap fix for the current season, this offers a compromised solution.
It would be amazing to have special unique only tempers, preferably without a range so they're always max.
I 100% agree.
I think for anything that is labeled as "armor" (helm, chest, boots) the lost power of tempering is limited. For jewelry, weapons and gloves its really really hard to argue for a unique, as these are the slots with the most powerful tempers (at least for a Necro, no clue on other classes).
Unique items have been problematic since the start of the game imo. They are legendaries but with less options especially with the introduction of the aspect system in D4. You can’t move them freely to different slots and fixed stats are a lot of the time undesirable. So unless the power of the unique is critical to a build, it’s not worth using over a legendary. There need to be another mechanic introduced that is unique for unique items that make them more desirable. As they are currently it just feel like a relic of the past from D2 that struggle to fit in to the modern day diablo. I would hate to say to bring back the kunai cube from D3 as that would just be a mindless power spike and not a new idea.
Isnt the point that you gain X (as in unique power) but give up Y
Why is that the point of uniques? The devs said the point of uniques were to offer exciting build crafting experiences is what I thought they said (or something along those lines, I can’t quite remember)
I just always thought that you get something unique and give up something else, i have no experience in game dev so thats just me tho
How about uniques get a 15/15 mastercraft? Would make it more worth it.
Unique weapons feels very underwhelming
What do you want, some random weird unique effect or 60-100% more dmg on your primary skill? I know what id choose.
Unique is perfect for leveling. But farming unique is meaningless now when you hit 100
Hard disagree, that is the only thing that makes Uber Uniques balanced. Normal Uniques have the function to be build enable, so they should be weak in affixes but strong in the unique power.
I'd prefer something cool like Last Epoch's (essentially) smash greater affix legendaries onto uniques with legendary potential system, which does a fab job of making you go oooh when you find a unique while keeping the gear chase going. Maybe this is too complex for Diablo, which has no loot filter, but it's fun.
I would prefer if Uniques were just stronger. Blue Rose is a great example - supposed to be great for Blizzard Sorc, except a regular ring with aspect and Tempering blows it out of the water.
They should have a unique without any special affix, but allow 2 legendary of your choice 😎
They need to buff the stats and make small the range of the stats or at least make them perfect roll like some uniques, before yesterday i wasted all my irons and just got some unique ring with you know good and bad stats, anyway they need to do something
Nah uniques should be uniques they just need a pass of affix check. Make the affixes better and higher number. Get rid of useless affixes so masterworking is easier.
Legit! Cuz 5 = 5. 🤷🏼♂️
Tempering is cool but it is pretty lame that many top tier builds use precisely zero unique items. Not even exciting to find uber uniques this season.
Uniq should legit have some random stats on it for exemple one have guaranteed crit strike, crit damage and can also roll those stats a second time if you are extremely lucky or not even the same one just other stats. Kinda lame that they are always the same. The game viability is so low yet they run a store in it but won’t be able to retain the players.
Uniques should have their affixes tuned up. Make it so their range can net higher than a non-GA legendary, and a GA puts them 25-50% higher than what is possible on a legendary. On top of that, I think they should have their own crafting system. Add a material to the pit that allows you to power up their Unique Power. Make it drop at like 80+ or something like that.
WHY uniques are equippable at 60
I’m confused what is ur argument? All ancestral gear starts to drop equippable at 55 (not even 60) and the drops at ur current level from them on. I don’t get what ur point is tho?
So you get more use out of them. Legendary affixes are generally stronger. Uniques are Unique for the only reason is that is the only piece of gear you can get it on. I agree they should be allowed a Temper. Sacred are locked at 80. If they locked Uniques behind 80, they’d be useless as affixes at that range are generally stronger than the Unique affix
Wait what is locked at 80? Afaik the only thing locked at 80 is Uber uniques dropping in general gameplay (not even at Uber bosses) and even then I’m not 100% sure that’s the case anymore. But it seems u agree with the idea that they are too weak at the endgame to justify using so am it seems we mostly agree
Maybe it’s Ancestral locked behind 80. Some gear you can’t equip til 80. My memory plays games with recall
Ancestral gear is the highest tier of gear, and your right it can go up to a level req of 80 but that level req will match the level u obtain the gear on. So if ur level 55 the same ancestral gear will drop at a req of 55 (which is the lowest ancestral’s req can drop at). Additionally the level req it drops with or your level doesn’t actually seem to affect the stats like item power, instead that depend more on the level of the enemies who drop it.
I got a whole stash full of gear my my 75 Barb can’t equip even tho my 100 Barb can. Drives me nuts at this stage of the game that I have to keep farming lol
Yh it’s annoying, not sure exactly what the motivation behind it is either except maybe to discourage handing down op gear to other people who are just level 55 but idk it’s not even that hard to level up anymore
Oh we do. They are definitely underwhelming now for the most part.
I like that theres a trade off to using uniques vs Legos. They should be weaker stat wise as a trade off to their effects.
Nah man
They should just get a 5th affix to keep them in line with the 5 lines we currently get on legendaries. Seems like the easiest solution to me. And revisiting the values of course.
I agree. Specially since my frozen orb sorc uses 5-7 uniques. 🤣
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Uniques still have their four affixes while regular items got nerfed into having only 3. They are therefore able of having 4 greater affixes, which is yet another layer of advantage that uniques have over legendaries. Tempering is literally the only advantage legendaries have over Uniques, adding even 1 slot to them is just overkill. Anyone who still thinks Uniques got shafted by this item rework should be a little more observant.
I guess it comes down to the feeling that uniques are not in the right place power-wise for many of them. Despite often having 4 affixes they are often still just a bit weaker than the 5 affixes we get from a tempered legendary. Some of our tempering affixes are so strong that they dwarf the power on some uniques now, like the chance to double cast on weapons - Basically can't replace that unless the unique effect is worth more than double damage.
I'm shocked this got missed on ptr. Surely people brought this up during testing? It's not game breaking but I'd really like to be excited about uniques instead of shrugging off 9 out of 10 that drop.
You can just double their masterworking crits
Not just double tempered affixes. its an aspect slot too. They need to either buff uniques to make up for it or allow us to add something shiettttt
I’d prefer they buffed the uniques that need it rather than give them tempering. I do think there should be a balance that discourages players from just rocking all uniques though. We’re a bit over tuned in the legendary direction right now but I don’t want to see it go back too far the other way.
Imagine trashing a shako because the temper rolled 6 times in a row something useless.
It's a tradeoff - unique power not found anywhere else or better / more aligned stats. I think that's OK, as long as we get more build defining / buffed uniques so they are actually a valid alternative.
That way you can permanently ruin your unique with the wrong temper lol
No, because you can brick ubers this way. No way in hell. Instead I want them to allow us to re-roll tempers. With a very high cost. I hate bricking items. It feels so bad. Gold sink is a good enough penalty.
I agree bricking feels bad, and mb they could lower the rng aspect of unique tempering but I can tell u it won’t feel any less bad that losing ur perfect greater affix roll either on your legendaries. I agree tho there shld defo be some way, even if crazy expensive that lets get an additional temper, maybe locked all the way in the deepest depths of the pit but yh it is what it is
Absolutely not. If anything, tempering needs adjusting because right now it's an extremely easy way to make an overwhelmingly strong item without any thinking involved. Uniques should be items that are worthless to many players but BIS/build enabling for some of them, except some funny gigachad chase items. Generally, uniques should be more like an altering your playstyle item, not something incredible powerful just because of its class but it's more of a problem with the itemisation rework. Right now you can slap some life, damage reduction and armour on 2 items and you're capped, the rest is damage on damage on damage on damage so yeah, uniques looks pretty weak when compared to new tempered items, because in D4 uniques gives just damage in most cases.
“Uniques should be items that are worthless to many” is a wild take.
otherwise they would have to compete with Legendary class (which is pinnacle of a build right now) and I don't think that's a good idea. legendaries should compete with legendaries and uniques should be occasionally as good or a better choice for some than legendary but looking at current iteration of D4 uniques i think it will never happen, they will just buff the damage numbers, then buff damage on aspects, then buff damage on uniques, then..
They are unique because, they are unique… UNIQUE
Being able to temper something and being unique doesn’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. Legendaries and uniques can both drop with greater affixes, should we remove that functionality from uniques to make them more “unique”? Blizzard has lit said they wanted getting a unique to be an exciting experience in terms of build crafting, but as of rn it fails in that role 90% of the time.
I want to use a grandfather but can't justify losing the tempers, I agree. Either uniques need to be buffed even HARDER or you should be able to temper otherwise they lose appeal.
Roll barb, laugh in multiple weapons
Barb has no reason to run grandfather at all. I hurts dmg more than helps. Tempering is literally better than grandfather lol
Why run grandfather over masterworking to 300% bash damage or ww the size of your screen.
I am a barb, a bash barb. still hard to justify if 100%x crit damage will beat 200% dmg to close enemies, bash cleaving for 200% dmg, 150% crit dmg, and losing 60 percent attack speed due to my rapid aspect. If anything the multiple weapons is just more reason to use tempered legendaries. It just kinda sucks because I've been wanting to use the grandfather since the beginning and now that I can finally make it ill be weaker by using it lmao
I want a way to make unique competitive against legendaries right now, but i agree it should not be tempered. That defeat the "unique" definition.
On top of the tempered affixes, Uniques often feel lackluster because of missing out on Legenedary Aspects. Aspects should *be in the damn skill tree* and not on your gear in the first place. It's a fundamental design flaw with D4 since day 1 IMO.
Soon, cry more and you will get it.
How constructive