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byzantinebobby

You sound like a person that would like Eberron.


burnalicious111

Exandrian orcs are like this too. But you can play orcs however you like in your game.


[deleted]

I play Orcs as kind of like Klingons.


Hatta00

Orcs were created by Gruumsh to multiply and conquer and slay all the other peoples of the world. Orcs aren't necessarily stupid, but they sure as hell are evil.


LumTehMad

Forgotten Realms Orcs are only mindlessly evil if you swallow Elvish propaganda and don't bother to read into why the Orcs have declared eternal war on the Elves and their friends. They are fairly justified in their hatred and the substandard living conditions of the Orcish species are largely due to Corellon being a huge tool and the other gods going along with his frat boy antics.


ejdj1011

This is how it is in my world. Because of the whole Corellon bs, Orcs have a mindset of "you gave us nothing, so we'll take whatever we can get". To them, the ability to defend and hold territory is what makes it yours. They're honorable combatants though, and don't just raid or conquer for the sake of doing so - that's the role of goblinoids.


Haynex

Hey, I actually wanna make orc bands relevant in my current campaign, but I've been struggling with a concept. I wanted to keep that idea of them being nomadics and, well, pillagers — because I already made goblinoids a civilization. And I really dig your idea. Would you mind keeping in contact via private messages so we can talk about it?


ClearPerception7844

Just because they have a reason to do so(between hundreds to thousands of years ago) doesn’t mean raping and pillaging across the continent is justified.


Gazelle_Diamond

In ONE setting.


Egghead-Wth-Bedhead

Could be a homebrew where Gruumsh doesn’t exist


[deleted]

While that is true, I think the argument that the Orcish 'standard' is problematic is... tired?Some races, especially those influenced by divine whims, are potentially evil by nature more often than not. It's just the way it is in most planes on the Prime. Same can be said for good. If Gruumsh told Orcs to go give hugs and share posies, they'd be doing that instead.


Dexterous-success

I have a half orc character written up and I just straight up ignored that "naturally inclined towards evil" thing. Sure, there may be a lore reason for it but they're still sentient beings with feelings. It hits too close to irl racism (x group is naturally predisposed to bad things) for me to care much for the idea.


BrokeFromBlackjack

I run my half orc as somebody with bad instincts and reflexes and whatnot. If something catches him off-guard, he tends towards the most violent solution (e.g. removing the hands and throat of a spellcaster that surprised him), but tends towards the less violent "good" option when he's able to think clearly (e.g. true resurrecting said spellcaster when he realized that no harm was intended). That said, being a life cleric of a LG god, his character is heavily based on the conflict between his god and his birth. I don't think that works for everyone, but I think it makes playing him more interesting than "am strong human too tough to die," especially when it forces me (as a player) to choose between the outcome that I want and the reaction that my character would take (I'm somebody who has a hard time doing direct harm to anybody, even in games. Its why I chose to be a life domain cleric). I personally don't think the "orcs are evil by default" thing is any more or less racist than the "tabaxi are curious" thing; I think in this case, its more of a species issue. Its wrong to say that any type of dog is more likely to act one way or another, because they all have more or less the same morphology, instincts, and general mental structure. It's not at all wrong to say that almost all cats act differently from any breed of dog. Likewise, if another species adapts human-level intelligence but comes from a different line (or, in the case of orcs, are made for a purpose by a god), they would probably have even wilder mannerisms and psychology. I don't think that even chimps (the closest animals I'm aware of to developing into an early human like state, and from a very similar evolutionary path as us) would have the exact same tendencies as we do, and would probably tend towards certain behaviors that modern humans may not. Also, culture is a huge factor; if you're brought up being taught that everyone like you acts one way, or that you need to act that way, it can be very difficult to break those mental chains. You see this very clearly in the US, where large demographics generally behave similarly not because of any biological reason, but because they were taught as kids that that is the particular way one should act. This is especially clear in southern white communities, where class lines determine behavior fairly rigidly despite next to no actual enforcement of rules. I think this goes double for orcs and orc-kin, as almost everyone outside their communities see them as warlike monsters, but the communities themselves act almost like warlike monsters, leading to a feedback loop.


NeoGnosticism

Quirks and differences one thing, but straight up being evil is different. Especially in the official descriptions of the alignment system which are far stricter than actual human morality. No species on the planet is naturally bloodthirsty, it's learned behavior. If they had said that the culture of Orc populations in the Forgotten Realms tended them to be raised evil, I would understand it. Saying they are genetically predisposed to evil is both lazy and slightly questionable.


BrokeFromBlackjack

Again, though, in a world where gods definitely exist and definitely have set morality, its not exactly impossible that one would make a species to carry out their will, right? And if they did, it only makes sense that that species would have a predisposition to that god's morality, either through a divine or magical compulsion, or just through weird genetics. It could be a psychological drive to kill, commit violence, and do general orc stuff passed down through a gene or general brain makeup, like certain actual psychological illnesses (although this would be to a much greater extent than most real-world illnesses and predispositions go). At the end of the day, it really just depends on your DM, as we all need to face the fact that Forgotten Realms kinda sucks as a setting and almost everybody makes either minor or major changes to make it fit. Also, for most races in D&D, the diet isn't always well-defined. It could simply be a case of necessity; depending on your game, orcs may only be able to survive by eating the flesh of other sapient beings, or some bullshit like that.


[deleted]

While I understand how you could think that way, I feel as if the issues that we see and perceive in this world shouldn't be applied to how the world functions top down in a fantasy setting. Imagine everything we see differently on a planet where there is only one thinking race of beings, humans, and then imagine a series of worlds with hundreds of thinking beings that have different biological needs, divine beings exerting pressure on their lives/cultures, and completely separate cultures born out of both of said needs. An Orc only resembles any function or reality of a real human in the way that they have a similar body composition. Nothing about who they are, where they came from, etc has literally anything to do with any real life race. In fact, the evil and culture of Orcs can be seen as the direct consequence of their victimization. Gruumsh did not demand that Orcs multiply, destroy and conquer until the other gods basically denied his people a rightful home as the map of domains was being chosen and he swore that his people would eventually take what was denied from them by force and then cut a home for them where nobody else would 'condemn' their people to live. (In at least one telling of it.) Of course this doesn't condemn all Orcs to serving Gruumsh, in fact, there is an Orcish pantheon as well as several other gods that Orcs have broken off to worship in known tribes, but the vast majority of the largest segment of Orcs belong to the ideology of Gruumsh in the main canon. I get very passionate about this topic because a lot of people want the conceptualization of Orcs to change, but they are amazing and their lore is rich and very -cool- when you dig into it. I don't want them to just become green humans.


NeoGnosticism

I don't think the lore for evil races is problematic, it's just hilariously lazy. They just avoided any possible moral or logistical issues by essentially taking away free will from certain "enemy" races. It was excusable in early editions when the game was just one big dungeon crawl. If it makes it into 5.5, I'll be severely disappointed in the writers.


[deleted]

How is it lazy to create an actually diverse and varied system of beliefs or motivations for the many, many, many races of the fantasy world? If you read my other comment lower in the chain, you can see just a snippet of why Orcs are not just mustache twirling villains who are evil for the sake of having a big green lug to kill. Not every single race is going to end up being a re flavored human, and that's okay. In fact, that's preferable to a massive fantasy setting. Orcs as they are have become a huge fixture in most fantasy settings not because they are lazy or boring, but because they are fascinating and complex if you bother to look into them at all past the random encounter generators and focus on the lore and purpose behind their existence and behaviors.


[deleted]

I depends on the setting. I usually don’t run orcs as mindless goons, but they usually roam in raiding parties like mongols. Then again, my homebrew setting is Conan the Barbarian style Sword and Sorcery, so vicious beings of pure evil kind of fit in.


DeepTakeGuitar

"Typically" As a baseline, they're less intelligent than most species, but stronger and with rapid birthrates. This makes them a constant threat to "civilization," especially as Gruumsh created them to wreck shit. Are there orcs that aren't dumb? Obviously, or they likely would still be here. Are there orcs that aren't evil? That's even even smaller group, but of course there are at least a few. But *most* are indeed dumb and evil. Unless you change that for your setting, of course. Edit: a word. Thank you!


ClearPerception7844

Exactly we have no real world comparisons because they are different species biologically and exist in a world where gods can dictate anything they want to. You also don’t have to use this but it IS canon. The whole point of dnd is creative freedom. The whole idea that anyone is wrong (outside discussing RAW and canon) is bullshit, if in your setting Strahd is Batman, whatever fucking do it if you want to. Also you said seeing not setting btw.


Dictionary20

Well, not all indigenous civilizations are good or at least for the common definition of it. Take this one in the Pacific that kills anyone who makes contact. My orcs fought religiously and that has soaked into everything else(or at least most of them)


ClearPerception7844

Or human sacrifice and cannibalism of some of the native civilizations in South America.


DeciusAemilius

I tend to like to think of Orcs as steppe nomads like the Sarmatians; different and not urbanized but still capable of greatness, they simply have different values than the urbanized, civilized peoples.


Eldritch_Dragon

I mean, if the DM wants all Orcs to be mindless Evil and all Drow evil slavers I don't see it as a problem. As for what should and shouldn't across all fiction that's up to them.


JaSnarky

Seriously. Outside RAW there's no need to debate what is and isn't correct in a fantasy world, as long as the world is consistent with itself. Fans of WoW might like the indigenous, hard-done-by orcs or LotR fans might prefer mindless savages. It's all good.


Eldritch_Dragon

Exactly! But it seems this has to be repeated a lot for most people to understand this.


NeoGnosticism

It is relevant when these depictions are being put into the official setting modules and even included within the Player's Handbook. As consumers it's perfectly valid to bring up issues with what WotC is producing.


JaSnarky

Isn't it a multi-verse just for that, to provide plenty of room for contradictions between stories? And aren't many of their modules published by them but written by independent authors? Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but if it's true then it seems a waste of time to argue such things.


Shoe_Exact

Them and gerblins


0mendaos

Not enough people look into the lore of other races in a given setting. Like base lore Gruumsh decided to be this Bandit King cuz he felt like he got fucked over and couldn't find a place for his race. So fuck everyone "if we couldn't have the mountain then noone gets it." Then you can start building from that, are there some that claimed a spot and became Isolationist? Is there a clan that has been able to trade? Is there bad blood between orcs and someone else. If a territory gets invaded would an orc tribe intervene because they've been eyeing a particular spot to raid and by hell they WILL get what they've set their sights on?


powypow

I like to have orcs just plain evil. Don't have to make things more complicated than that. These are magical races, nothing wrong with some of them just being inherently evil/good. But to each his own


Ihavenospecialskills

My orcs are Americans, and are one of the major world powers.


UkrainianGrooveMetal

The problem with WoTC shifting the evil, mindless race away from orcs to gnolls is that it makes me want to play a gnoll


Szymon_Patrzyk

I like playing goblin tribes as slaves that escaped from human farms. Almost no combat training, the only order they know was of masters and servants.


Red_Ranger75

The way I generally do orcs is that their native lands are so inhospitable to life that they didn't have the luxury of time and resources to spend on intellectual pursuits. Over time this made them incredibly physically and psychologically resilient but it also lead to a culture where education was somewhat... lacking with obvious results


electric-angel

You wanne bring in real live? Sure ill Play A Zealot Paladin Oath of conquest. with the Sailor background Say hello to MY Satyr/Faun Merchant Sailor. Who wants to find the mythical realm of Waifu's and the monkey king by going into the sunset and around the back of the world. Sponsored by the King of Castelian. Following the light of the sun we left our old world -Krystovir Kul-lembuz 1492


ClearPerception7844

A zealot oath of conquest Paladin sounds like a really fun idea for a pirate character


electric-angel

no no, not pirate, not plunder Conquestador, Explorer and Bringer of Civilization. but yea that too


ClearPerception7844

I’m going to assume you spelled conquistador wrong as a pun. In which case I complement you on your pun and wish you luck in your search for gold


EmperorGreed

I treat orcs as basically land vikings, with an extra splash of malice because they were created by an evil god who's not THAT hot on free will. Until they kill Grummsh, then they get more self determination


HofePrime

In my world’s lore, the orcs have a pretty strong culture, especially in literature and music. I’ve even gotten a fairly good idea of what the music written by orcs sounds like (some mix between Sibelius and Stravinsky)


Tyrannical_Requiem

Orcs in my world actually once held a few great empires that ended up falling due to wars on either sides of the empires with Dwarves/Elves/Humans since the orcs wanted those resources as the other races wanted theirs, flash forward about 700 years later and a lot of orcish clans have a form of war the excel in. Some are just Barbarians, while others are skillful poisoners and assassins, and others have allies amongst kobolds or bugbears. It also shows just a hint of what their empires were like too, and which caste they were in.


ASmallPupper

My orcs are a Druidic, plant-based species that only live 20 years and serve to protect the realm’s nature against corruption and exploitation. Brute orcs are boring and low hanging fruit.


ThatJinkers

In the main area for my setting the orcs are a noble warrior caste. Each race in my setting was created to perform a role, and the orcs existed to show the meaning of passion. They're stalwart friends, devoted lovers, noble warriors, but also headstrong and prone to aggression, which resulted in their kind being driven to a great desert. So now they're also desert dwellers with no time for games and a huge cultural emphasis on practicality.


I_exist_damn_you

Are you on crack? Indigenous peoples are supposed to exist as part of nature. Orcs were literally created unnaturally to be monsters


SomeGuyFromThe1600s

Just as I want to say to the OP: there is no one way “Orcs” have to be. They can be a plot device as Tolkien used them, and as you described. You can argue that in Tolkien’s world they hold a lot of similarities to IRL things, but if it can never *really* be verified that he used that as inspiration But playing them as OP said is also perfectly fine, and the much better way to do so in D&D 5e because IMO it makes for more compelling story telling


victorlives

Depends on the setting. In mine, they were created as a weapon of war. After their god was banished to one of the many hells, orcs became a more neutral race. Orcs were also green. When their god returned, and began a conquest on the world, a large portion of orcs decided to remain neutral and continue to revere the Druidic pantheon. Other orcs returned to their creator, and were blessed with grey pigment. Since the god was once again defeated, and grey orcs retained their skin, there is a divide in orc culture now. Grey orcs are the classic barbarians, green orcs are much more civilized. I’m indigenous, and based green orc culture off of my Mohawk culture. So no, I’m not on crack.


AnchorMan82

My DM had our war cleric wrestle an orc to get us passage on a ship. That orc’s name was Thok. It was beautiful.


DiceMadeOfCheese

I straight up told everybody in my game that were no orcs


floofandmemes

Orcs are twisted forms of Elves though


cascading_error

My orcs have 2 major clans, one sails skyships the other is a hyper violent group of anarcists more akin to vikings in behavior than native amaricans/africans. Eddit: the players havnt gone to orc country and thus have only experianced raiding partys. Hence the hyper violence part.


Romantheclanka

I rp my orcs like 40k orks because 40k orks are hilarious