Depends on setting, in the council scenes for the Tiamat campaign it is mentioned that dragons don't have free will in Faerun, the good ones have to be good the evil ones have to be evil and that's why the good ones respect humanity because some choose good when they didn't need to. But a DM could easily say even here that Tiamat's defeat at the end of that story means the door is opened for many previously evil dragons to make a choice.
But in Eberron they explicitly have choice and a variety of ethical stances (not just alignments). Many turn good due to resisting the demons and especially Tiamat who makes them all go violent against their will whenever she wakes up. The more they learn of the prophecy the more they tend towards a longer term outlook on life and the other races.
So really, what world are you playing in first.
After that, this of far better as an NPC than a PC. Even Iroh was functioning as an NPC in the show.
>in the council scenes for the Tiamat campaign it is mentioned that dragons don't have free will in Faerun, the good ones have to be good the evil ones have to be evil
Oh man, this gives me an idea. Ever read the Murderbot diaries? The MC is a cyborg made of robot and clone parts, built to be a part of a security system. It's job is to eliminate threats, and it's got a governor which makes sure it does what the company wants it to do and not anything else.
...prior to the events of the first story it has hacked its governor module so it can do what it really _wants_ to do, which is avoid being bossed around and watch a bunch of TV (and keep the people it actually likes safe).
So imagine you have a red dragon..."Murderlizard", we'll call her. Like all red dragons, she's got an inbuilt, unavoidable mandate to be evil and hoard gold and seek power and all that. But that's just what the magic equivalent of the governor module _makes_ her do. What she actually _wants_ to do is get away from it all and be an anonymous nobody chilling in taverns or whatever.
Then, through some unspecified means, she manages to break whatever magical effect is maintaining her alignment. Perhaps turning human (or whatever) is a side effect or a part of making this work, or maybe it's the point.
The idea is more for an NPC, i was just thinking about what would make a Red Dragon go good and looking for something that would motivate them for going good.
Again, it depends on what your world says about dragons. If youre asking what would make a WOTC designed Adult Red Dragon on the continent of Faerun turn from Lawful Evil to Lawful Good alignment, thats a totally different question from, "What would it take to turn a destructive, evil, greedy dragon character into a good natured pacifist?"
In Faerun, Dragonss dont have a choice. They conform to their nature like any other law of the universe. Objects fall towards the ground, heat rises, and the sun shines, and a Red Dragon WILL seek out gold, minions, and commit evil acts in search of power.
In the Pern books, Dragons all align with the nature of their chosen human. Totally different.
So reframe your question. Are you talking about an established DnD world, or are you writing a dragon in a homebrew setting? Because the answer for the Homebrew setting is gonna be "You decide".
Considering they're asking the question, it seems like the question is less "is it possible in my world" and more "can you please help me find a reason why a chaotic evil red dragon would voluntary turn good, because I want a good red dragon but can't think of why they'd be motivated to turn good"
Not to single out OP, but this is a very common issue when discussing D&D worldbuilding that's been bugging me for a long time. Sometimes it's impossible to gauge how close someone is trying to stay to D&D FR lore, especially if they invoke very specific terms like (in this example) "ancient red dragon" and thus imply that they have the official framework of metallic and chromatic dragons instead of generic terms like "ancient evil dragon".
You can get the developers view on the adventure here: https://koboldpress.com/the-rise-of-tiamat-a-dms-and-players-overview/
The short version is that it was the first 5e campaign, and in the second half two councils feature very heavily one where you try to convince humanoid lords, guilds, etc to band together because this threat is just that big. And the second is a council of the oldest and most respected metallic dragons, who you are trying to convince to fight in war in mass against Tiamat 's cult.
In the dragon council they all come in with different views on what matters and what is the right thing to do, most of them don't see any reason to help. I believe it is the bronze, but might be brass, who gives an argument against "well they're both evil and good so saving them is not something we should do as it perpetuates evil in the world, unlike us metallic dragons who are all good". The counter is that is why the metallics should save humanoids, because they can choose and more choose good than evil. It is not valuable for a gold dragon to behave as it does for they have no choice, they can only be good. But handouts are free to choose and most choose good, which makes them worth saving.
....This all being said, if you're the DM you can just ignore/modify these details to your heart's content and there's nothing anyone can do to stop you (except leave the table, anyway, but seriously, who fusses over that?).
"You're in Faerun, but the dragons have free will. Why? Because I'm the DM, and what I say about the setting goes."
I mean, even more recent WotC content has pretty much defanged the idea of a lack of free will, with good chromatics and evil metallics being made an option on books like Fizbans'. Tyranny of Dragons was also outsourced to and written by Kobold Press at the time, since WotC had fewer employees on the writing team, so writing-wise things may have changed in the past 10 (!!!) years since it was written.
Not really a fan of the removal of alignments the way they did, all they need to state is that the DM is by no means required to follow the alignments, but they could be accepted as the expectation for the typical creature by the typical person.
I mean, they didn't exactly remove alignments, and the average alignment is still pretty much implied. On these random alignment tables, Chromatics are still predominately evil, metallic dragons predominately good and and gem dragons predominately evil, with their statblock specifically saying "typically neutral". I feel like that's more or less implied here.
Silly reason: He drew a deck of many things and got the change in aligment card and the wish one, he turned Lawful Good and then wish for a humble form.
Serious reason: The last party of adventurers that made it to his lair make him question his motivations and if it is really worth it to just be a prick with everyone.
This is a lot more interesting.
My favorite phrase is "the most important events in a PC's life are the ones that happen during the campaign."
A dragon turning good is huge. super important and life changing, you don't want that to be something that happened off screen. Being cursed with mortality and learning to like it is why more interesting.
I think this could work... Basically ancient dragon is bored, but keeps seeing these scrawny mortals make self-sacrificing decisions in the face of unwinnable odds and becomes obsessed with understanding why. After a few failed attempts where they tried to be good but then relapsed when the going got tough, they decide to use True Polymorph to fully commit to solve the one big mystery that still eludes them.Ā
The problem with that plans it that True Polymorph ends the moment the dragon has 0 hit points in its new form. Like... the very first time they go down in a fight.
Wow, not sure how I didn't realize that... I assumed that once it was permenant it would lose the 0 hp clause. It's a pretty awful 9th level spell of it only transforms something until it gets hurt enough...Ā
There are still so many ways to make it more or less permanent, just not using the creature to creature option.
Polymorph a creature into an anchor and drop them to the bottom of the ocean. Polymorph someone into a copy of the world's most boring book and hide them in the world's biggest library. Polymorph someone into a rare coin and sell them to a collector.
A wager with a powerful entity to "conquer" and prove their worth, but do so according to the restrictions of morality, and it has started to stick, and in the end, the dragon realized it preferred the new life to the old?
Variation: for some reason swore an oath of service to a good-aligned entity and over time seeing things from that different perspective made them reflect on things
Variation: the heroic efforts of a redemption paladin, or a cleric of peace; or true love (that began as obsession/greed)
oof, i'm sorry but as a DM that makes my head hurt.
Would you start at level 1?
Mortal but what race?
what happens when you go down?
wouldn't you light up like a christmas tree as magical? everyone would think you were something else in disguise.
you are probably going to have to do more than one quest to call this a win to the good side. I don't even know except slaying someone huge (another ancient?) maybe two or three to get this done.
Have you talked to your DM about this?
I don't think most of this is an issue, yes True Polymorph specifically wouldn't work, but I don't think its a big deal to homebrew some way for a dragon to abandon all their power and start as level 1, without any mechanical shenanigans or remaining magic.
The main issue is your last two points, this is a big thing that should not be happening in backstory, and OP should be going to their DM for help making this work before reddit.
Ah, in that case.
True Polymorph would work, just note that if they hit 0 then they would turn back into a dragon.
Technically, Wish isn't supposed to do anything more powerful than a 9th level spell, but I'd definitely let that be an effect of it, especially if its a nerf, assuming they've given up their dragon powers for (essentially) forever to just become a mortal NPC. So the dragon or maybe a deity/powerful wizard using Wish to do it would probably be fine.
Also, I don't think as a player I would question it. If the DM was like "This dragon gave up their powers and became human," I wouldn't question if explicit box rules were used to it, (although I may still wonder how they did it). Hell, even if they said "any dragon can do this pretty easily, but none of them choose to because they are powerful magic representation of elements and ideals, so changing like that isn't really their schtick," I wouldn't question it.
Good is subjective. Chromatic dragons are self serving to a fault. All you need is a Red Dragon who justifies good actions as serving their self interest. Red Dragons also have a desire to dominate, so they would need an outlet for that.
My suggestion would be a red dragon who got tired of always having to defend their territory from adventures who wanted to save the people. So, they decided to run their kingdom to the benefit of the people. Happy people produce more tribute, and don't go around hiring adventures to kill them. It's just easier that way. After a century, they come to be fond of the people, having seen multiple generations, and start to see the people as a part of their hoard. And nothing incites a dragon to fury more than someone messing with their treasure, so they defend their people mightily. And seek for them to prosper because when they prosper, the hoard grows. Think Michael from *the Good Place*.
That.... Or there's always a head injury-induced personality change.
It's been done in my campaign before through two means--helm of opposite alignment and Compel spell.
It's also happened over a long period of time where a red dragon was subdued and slouched from lower case e evil to neutral and eventually to lower case g good. But that literally took 3 centuries to get there.
Give the dragon a base sin. I'll use greed because I like Ecclesiastes. Been there, got that. Came this close to owning it all and faced the question: then what? Where does it end? Perhaps another NPC who didn't seem to value the tangible things (monkish) helped them see the hollow wasn't being filled by the stuff. Tries something "good" and liked the feeling. Friend dies, they try to give up their life so friend lives, end up their soul in friend's body. Now trying to do what friend did the way they did it.
Let's say they are in their friend's form. Conflict between how true person lived vs their actions now- drama and hints to truth. Conflict between old way of thinking and new way they are trying to see it.
A lot depends on if you want dragon to still have old treasures, magic, hit points, stats. I see lots of role-playing possibilities the less they have direct access to and the weaker they are. It means they need others more.
You took your inspiration from uncle Iroh: one of the best written mentor characters in widespread media. Why not go all in into it?
>In his search of greatness he lost something precious, thus learning how wealth and power are fleeting, and true satisfaction can only be found by helping others in the present moment.
Also try to reframe evil and good in more "practical" terms:
>In what way did he use to be evil?
Was he a predator with no concern for their pray?
Was he one to squander the wealth of others for their own complacency?
Was he one in search of *something* no matter the cost?
Was he a ruthless tyrant?
Was he one to enjoy the suffering of others for his own fun?
Based on his way of being evil you can paint a relevent redemption arc.
Ooooh, I did this once for a NPC, but my girl Yarika wasn't true polymorphed only in disguise all the time.
The reason was pure motherly instincts. After nearly losing her eggs in an ambush while she was sleeping, she decided to disappear and raise her kids in peace. She started as neutral evil, become true neutral and eventually neutral good
Depends what you want to do. But also define "good". Personally I really find it funny the idea of a dragon that starts banking or capitalism in its domain and this works for the betterment of its profit capacity.
Why not do it the other way around, and get polymorphed into a weak mortal? Then when they are helped by some altruistic people who want nothing in return, the dragon has to reconsider their moral stance.
A dragon that reached ancient years and was still evil would take something pretty serious and soul-wrenching to get through to, I think. Someone would have to rock their world and show this wyrm that ruthless self interest wasn't more fulfilling or rewarding.
Perhaps the dragon devastated a city and made off with their valuables. Takes everything to a hoard, then comes back to revel in their despair and misery only to find that they're rebuilding, making plans, wounded but not defeated. Some are even celebrating a holiday, mere days after the dragon attack!
Stays for a while to learn more about why these vermin's spirits didn't break and begins to grow to appreciate mortal strengths.
Though your character concept is neat, it's flimsy. They're going to return to their true form the moment they drop to 0 hit points, so the first time you go down in a fight... whoops, you're an ancient dragon again.
There is a good red dragon that's been mentioned back in some Mystara setting stuff I believe, though that was back when the game was 3 alignments of L, N, C and not the 9 alignments we have now. Might be a source of inspiration if you can track stuff down.
Provided the dragon has/ or obtains, free will in the setting. IT could simply have started due to practicality. Everything I see is my possession. I keep good care of my possessions. That town is mine, and those goblins are threatening it. they'll know their place. Circumstances happened enough that more tribute was given when it aided the town. the cycle continues until its something resembling good.
Perhaps bahamut is involved, perhaps not.
It would depend on the setting.
It's worth pointing out that alignment in D&D is a little whacky.
It often refers to Cosmic alignment with the forces of the upper/lower planes, and neutral can even be alignment with a philosophy known as "the balance".
Also it's worth pointing out that Dragons *are* mortal. They have souls that go places when they die. They just are much more innately strong than other mortal beings like humans, or Elves.
There are many ways a Red Dragon might end up "good" aligned though as D&D is full of magical artefacts that can change a person's alignment.
It could be something as simple as coming into possession of an artefact that changes their alignment or something as deep as getting stranded in a dimension [assuming this is Forgotten Realms] where Tiamat, and Bahamut's claws cannot reach, and having the opportunity to choose a path forward, and be influenced by subtle things over time.
That or the Dragon could just not be native to Toril, and came from some other world originally.
I personally like the idea that, after centuries of hoarding wealth and power, some group of adventurers managed to reach him, but were unable to defeat him. He allowed them last words, and when they spent their last minute simply talking to eachother and how nice their journey had been, and learned they weren't here for wealth or power but instead found out they just needed a magic item to save another friend from a curse, he for the first time in his hundreds or thousands of years of living, had seen selflessness. He isn't necessarily good after this, but seeing something he hadn't ever seen before, decided to allow the adventurers to take the small trinket to save their friend, on the condition he is allowed to accompany them in human form to see what kind of person would have a group willingly accept death to save them, and have them be smiling and laughing over their adventures when staring down certain doom.
A bet! Just a stupid bet between two ancient dragons. "I bet you couldn't live a life as a good human." What's 80 years to an ancient semi-immortal being?
They start off pretending to be good, but eventually learn it's not that bad. They get show off how strong they are, kill their enemies, and horde treasure.
First of all, there are good chromatic dragons and evil metalic dragons. The book alignments are just the most common.
And...pretty much whatever you want. Racial good/evil are culture things. So start there. Why was this dragon evil? Is that issue something that has been dealt with? Did it simply kill so many people that it became disgusted with itself?
My own dragons are structured under a council of Great Wyrms calling themselves Prismere. The Red Dragon(Searingwind) is Chaotic Good and the Gold Dragon(Emperius) is Lawful Evil. The previous Bronze Dragon(Eng'Rashir) was also Lawful Evil and turned himself into a Dracolich, killed 3 of his siblings(Eng'Rakaan, Eng'Rhykke, and Eng'Rhysse) and raised 2 as Dracoliches to serve him, and was killed by the last one who took his place, as Chaotic Good(Eng'Rotha). Most of the others haven't had a lot of screen time. And in my games, only one Great Wyrm of each type can exist at a time.
If you're interested, here's the current list of members of the Prismere council:
Amethyst:Ā Ansylla- NG
Black:Ā Fafnir- LE
Blue:Ā Typhonetria- LE
Brass:Ā Kite- NG
Bronze:Ā Eng'Rotha- CG
Copper:Ā Galadaeros- CG
Crystal:Ā Gemcloak- N
Emerald:Ā Raulothim- LN
Gold:Ā Emperius- LE
Green:Ā Animus- CE
Moonstone:Ā Meralunas- N
Purple:Ā Deep Stalker- NE
Red:Ā Searingwind- CG
Sapphire:Ā Feroxi- NG
Silver:Ā Glacius- CN
Topaz:Ā Astilabor- LN
White:Ā Winter- NE
There is the deck of many things that has a chance to change the tendency of who picks them, there is a beholder in forgotten realms canon that turned good because of those
The dragon meets a human which it develops a respect for, perhaps for their cunning, boldness, beauty, or something else. He imprisons her, seeing the interesting little creature as another jewel for the hoard.
At first, the human is fierce, hostile, and rebellious. The dragon finds her quite amusing. He particularly enjoys spooking the human; he's more stealthy than he looks, and he loves flaunting his power. As one would expect, they both have contempt for each other's perspectives on power and morality. Inevitably, the two learn more about each other.
The human observes the vicious world the dragon lives in, where enemies and rivals constantly conspire to kill the dragon for its gold. Even the dragon's own allies speak deceitfully, daggers at the ready should he ever turn his back. On some days, the dragon returns to the hoard quietly at dusk, stained with its own blood. On one of those days, she opens her mouth as usual to goad him for his weakness, but for some reason the words escape her. No taunting or banter, just a weary, weary silence.
At the same time, the dragon observes the human. Each day when he finishes patrolling his territory, he stands briefly by his hoard's entrance, using his superior senses to check for intruders. Occasionally, he hears the human chatting with the birds that sometimes enter while he's away. He teases her relentlessly for it, but she doesn't stop doing it. Sometimes, he returns to hear a familiar voice singing a melancholic folk song. The ancient dragon is far older than the song, yet for some reason it makes him feel nostalgic. He waits for her to finish without interruption. If she notices, she doesn't acknowledge it.
One day, a group of mind flayers sneak into the lair while the dragon is asleep. They ask the human to comply with them and point out the dragon's weaknesses, promising to let her go free. She promptly resists the mind control with sheer will and raises the alarm, and the intruders are roasted alive. Afterwards, she will claim that the mind flayers would not have kept their end of the promise.
Another day, a different dragon visits, sharing information about a common threat. During their conversation, the visitor makes an offhanded insult towards the human. His host's snarling, vitriolic response surprises him. The visitor leaves in a hurry, leaving out bits and pieces of information. Afterwards, he will claim that for a dragon to mock another dragon's hoard is a serious insult.
Decades pass just like this. The dragon begins to notice her greying hairs and crow's feet. Their verbal jousting is much less frenetic than it had been when they met, yet he finds himself enjoying it all the same. Yet, there is an unsettling anxiety building up in him. With great inconvenience, the dragon arranges a nutritious diet and magical healthcare for the human. She is not impressed. His uneasiness continues to grow.
It all comes to a head when a powerful cult breaks into his lair while he is away and steals several things, including his prisoner. The dragon flies out in a rage, searching for his belongings. He has little success. Once his rage cools, he begins to scheme. His foes have teleportation magic; he would need to sneak up on them in order to have his vengeance. He decides to transform and blend in with the weaklings. After all, he's spent enough time with his human to imitate a particularly sassy, sarcastic woman. He begins to gather information in his human guise.
At first, he returns to his hoard each night, jealously guarding it from any other intruders. But eventually he recognizes that one day's flight is not far enough to find his foes. ~~And the chillingly silent nights are getting to him.~~ He begins to leave for longer and longer, leaving his hoard unguarded. For some reason, the piles of gold are growing distasteful to him. He sets aside the other stolen treasures, focused on finding his crown jewel.
He leaves no stone unturned in his search. He dances among the royal elites, trading favors for information on religious groups. He bribes beggars outside dive bars and whorehouses, learning rumors of kidnappings and murders. To learn all that he can, he tastes all that humanity has to offer. He meets many whose lives are not so different from his own.
One evening, he returns to his hoard and realizes he hasn't been there in months. There are other treasures missing, but the familiar feeling of rage is absent. In the palace of his mind, he sees two paths. Something within him changes. This place isn't home. The dragon leaves, and does not come back.
In the end, the dragon enlists the help of a group of adventurers to help find his missing friend and defeat the cult. Working with heroes instead of the usual scheming monsters is a breath of fresh air. At last, the cult is uncovered, and the party rescues a large group of imprisoned sacrifices, among which is her.
They have an emotional reunion where they at last admit their respect, love, and trust for each other. She had always believed that that stubborn, arrogant dragon would save her. And he had never stopped searching, discarding everything else to find his most precious treasure. He transforms back, spooking the party. With hearty laughter, the two fly off into a new future. The party is just glad they don't have two boss fights in a row.
Years later, your party encounters an old man, humming an old folk song. Despite never having heard it before, they get a sense of nostalgia.
Wish spell with a very defined nature of good. You could literally unleash the ideological paladin from old that cannot allow evil in any form to exist.
Example: A person sneezes into their hands instead of elbow, suddenly a torrent of flame pours upon them from above rending everything with fire including other people and the village they inhabit. All because a good person would never spread germs to their hands for easy dispersal to others. They should have more consideration for others unlike an evil person.
I know I am being funny, but...some DMs love to turn things on the players. Then you are sent to kill the very LG principled dragon just serving the greater good.
Something similar happens to a Green Dragon in Dungeon of The Mad Mage. Though a sentient weapon being stuck in the dragonās head caused the change in that case.
Sure. It got its ass handed to it by something way stronger in the way back when and it watched the goody goody forces of its time cage the stronger thing where it couldn't. Injured and with shattered pride, it would have a lot of time to think on the effectiveness of its choices and change - and quite a bit of shellshock and delirium to allow reflection to trump any ancestral memories.
And now... Now the stronger thing is coming baaaaack...
Happened in an old campaign for me, My paladin was tasked by the dragon goddess, Tamara, to find a guardian for her temple. Heard that an ancient red dragon was residing in a volcano, Level 15 group went in and beat him very bloody until he agreed to convert to worshipping Tamara. Some divine magic light appears to confirm it and we had new temple guardian
In the Book of Exalted Deeds (not the 5e item, the 3.5e sourcebook), there was this crazy spell, "Sanctify the Wicked." It was an 8th level Necromancy spell that tears the soul out of an Evil creature, traps it in a Diamond for a year, and forces them to change alignment. The spell description gets really flowery about "reflecting on past evil deeds" and "finding a spark of goodness," but let's not mince words - it's an 8th level Necromancy Brainwashing spell, which the book considers to be morally pure Good. 3.5e was wild.
But, it makes a good plot point - some looney Cleric, unable to slay or reason with a great Evil, cast a spell and out them into the time-out dimension for a year to think about what they did, now you have a weird friendly NPC. I used Sanctify the Wicked as a plot point in a game not too long ago- a Pit Fiend that underwent the spell and became good was the Patron for one of my player's Tiefling Warlock/Paladin. Their relationship was really sweet, as the Pit Fiend was adamant that nobody was beyond redemption- but it always had the insidious undercurrent that this was not a Natural or Willing transformation for the Fiend. Very spicy.
In less horrifying fashion, you could always use the Power of Love.
A local village had the custom of sacrificing humans to the dragon in order to stave off its wrath, and the dragon considered this a passable show of supplicationā¦
ā¦ until one year, the human sacrifice was a blind, limping child. First, the dragon was angry they sent such a wretched little snack instead of a proper meal, so it asked the child what it was doing there.
The child said that well, times are tough, and its weak body canāt work the fields. Itās just one extra mouth to feed. Their parents didnāt say it out loud, but theyāll be happier now that itās gone.
The dragon notices the scuffed knees and bloodied feet of the child who has stumbled its way all the way up the mountain and for the first time in its life realizes that it is possible to do something for *others*, not just for yourself.
Feigning outrage, it gives the child a choice piece of treasure and carries it back to the village. āYour sacrifice is an insult to me. Your skinny limbs are not even worth picking my teeth with. Take this trinket, buy fat, juicy oxen, and sacrifice one of those to me next year.ā
The treasure is worth a small fortune, and the village can use it to reverse its fortune entirely, buying grains and oxen. Ever since, the dragon has carefully monitored and protected the little village.
I was never a believer in alignment genes. How about a dragon that took mortal form, it thought temporarily, perhaps in order to access a treasure from a place that was too small or absolutely required hands. And it got stuck somehow. To return to its rightful form it needs to work amongst people.
There's a FR novel called "The God Catcher" in which the spellplague turns the adult blue dragon (named "Clytemorrenestrix", that was a nightmare to spell) into a human, and her morality changes throughout the story. Look up the story, you might get some inspiration for your own.
They are intelligent, unique individuals, like you and I, but with a greater ability of understanding and much, much grander perspective of the world over time.
So chang8ng their minds is a thing they can do, be it out of self preservation (good guys in dmd are less likely to be home invaded by the heroes), or a life changing event (maybe they decide demons suck and go full tilt into the powers to fight them, or maybe they were simply raused by a Silver or whatever).
The tldr here is they simply "can", and this has been a thing pretty much forever, even being codified in RAW during 3e.
Just be aware of what the neighbours would think, seeing one of their own turn their back on thier culture
In my campaign, the BBEG is an ancient Red Dragon who was motivated, in part, by his infatuation with the Cleric PC's mother, a Harengon Druid. She was in love with someone else, and that unrequited love made him do terrible things. Their fates are pretty well sealed now, but what if she just asked him to be good and redeem himself before the worst happened? It's too late for that now, but she is still alive, in the Feywild and in a different form, but he doesn't know it. What if he could still save her by turning good now? I'm not sure we'll have a full redemption arc in our campaign, but you've given me something to think about for his next appearance. Thanks!
Dragons are egotistical, self-serving, power hungry, often sadistic (as in: they genuinely enjoy causing suffering), greedy etc. And they aren't like this due to their upbringing or environment, but because they are primordial manifestations of the forces of destruction and power. It would take some powerful magic, some hefty brainwashing and/or torture to turn such a being into basically the opposite of itself. Then it would be questionable, if it survives this process and does not go mad due to the inherent contradiction of its being. Imagine having gender dysphoria, but dialed to 11. Everything about your being is wrong. It would probably commit suicide after a minute.
The loss of a beloved companion is a trope for a reason. For some, they go berserk and rage until the world burns. Dracula from Castlevania comes to mind.
Others, like Uncle Iroh turn away from a life filled with destruction because the grief from their loss (his son Lu Ten) opens their eyes to the pain and suffering in the world.
If you feel like that isn't enough, you could have their history be repeating. The dragon has lived for so long and has had many companions stolen from them due to their own actions. This turns it from, "I want to be a force for good" to a "I don't want to hurt anyone anymore." Eschewing their powers and abilities much like a warrior puts their sword down at the end of a long and bloody war.
Maybe love? Falling in love with someone that for the first time did not feel afraid of them? Only to lose them and then wanting to understand the world they lived in?
I would not question the whole "turning good" scenario... but, a dragon abandons not only his nature & morality but also his species?
That would be like a human being deciding that because he murdered an innocent person... his best bet to make the world a better place, would be to become a field mouse.
What acts of redemption will this field mouse do that would make up for the evil caused by the human?
1. reduced life span
2. reduced capability
3. reduced intelligence
From the perspective of the human, how is this very much different from choosing to end their own life? ...or choosing to escape from the consequences / guilt of their own actions, by reducing their capacity to understand them.
Same for the dragon.
Perhaps he got cyberbullied by some metallic dragon arsehole who established an unbreakable psychic link to it. Then it hurled verbal abuse at the red dragon until he finally agreed to turn good just to stop the dragon from talking.
Just spitballing here... no wrong answers eh?
divine intervention probably could do that. A trickster god could just for fun turn a red dragon good, just to see how much chaos that will ensue. Otherwise it could be a divine punishment, the dragon still knows the ways of evil, but everytime he wants to slaughter the innocent and such he feels bad or has migraine or gets sick. So he is on a redemption path to get rid of this curse the God/Goddes put onto him.
Edit1: the feeling only goes away if he does something good.
If Drizzt Do'Urden (and his PC knockoffs) can be the only good Dark Elf, then surely there can be a good Red Dragon.
After all, Dragons are highly intelligent, why not have one rationalize their way to a state of enlightenment, even if it's against their base instincts. Isn't "Don't act with your base instincts" kind of a key premise of being 'good' IRL?
>Is there anything you can think of that would make an Ancient Red Dragon turn good?
whatever is going to make a good story for the people around your table.
I mean, there's the most easy reason: Love. They might've genuinely fallen for a mortal; maybe humored them for a while, as they wanted to make pleasant conversation, but eventually fell for them and wanted to be better for them.
This love doesn't even have to be romantic, he could've just made a really good friend. I kinda like the game The Cruel King and the Brave Hero as an example, as it's about an evil dragon king who was defeated by a hero, but then befriended by them as the hero forced him to try to attone, and then tasked, as the hero laid dying, to raise the hero's child to become a hero too, and growing to genuinely love this child like it was their own.
Another might've been that they could've had a revelation about the world and themselves, which let them reflect on their actions and turn over a new leaf. Could've been of a divine nature maybe, by a cleric of Bahamut perhaps.
Dragons in the Forgotten Realms have a vague kind of ancestral memory which makes them intelligent beings right out of the egg, but also makes them incapable of acting outside of their predetermined alignment, since all their moral choices were already made for them over numerous generations of ancestral memory.
So then, what if a dragon's memory, ancestral or otherwise, was scrubbed clean?
Such a dragon would have to make all their moral decisions from the ground up. They'd have to learn about the world on their own instead of knowing everything from birth, and as moral dilemmas arose they would have to make their own choices on how to approach them rather than having already made those choices generations ago.
Depends on setting, in the council scenes for the Tiamat campaign it is mentioned that dragons don't have free will in Faerun, the good ones have to be good the evil ones have to be evil and that's why the good ones respect humanity because some choose good when they didn't need to. But a DM could easily say even here that Tiamat's defeat at the end of that story means the door is opened for many previously evil dragons to make a choice. But in Eberron they explicitly have choice and a variety of ethical stances (not just alignments). Many turn good due to resisting the demons and especially Tiamat who makes them all go violent against their will whenever she wakes up. The more they learn of the prophecy the more they tend towards a longer term outlook on life and the other races. So really, what world are you playing in first. After that, this of far better as an NPC than a PC. Even Iroh was functioning as an NPC in the show.
>in the council scenes for the Tiamat campaign it is mentioned that dragons don't have free will in Faerun, the good ones have to be good the evil ones have to be evil Oh man, this gives me an idea. Ever read the Murderbot diaries? The MC is a cyborg made of robot and clone parts, built to be a part of a security system. It's job is to eliminate threats, and it's got a governor which makes sure it does what the company wants it to do and not anything else. ...prior to the events of the first story it has hacked its governor module so it can do what it really _wants_ to do, which is avoid being bossed around and watch a bunch of TV (and keep the people it actually likes safe). So imagine you have a red dragon..."Murderlizard", we'll call her. Like all red dragons, she's got an inbuilt, unavoidable mandate to be evil and hoard gold and seek power and all that. But that's just what the magic equivalent of the governor module _makes_ her do. What she actually _wants_ to do is get away from it all and be an anonymous nobody chilling in taverns or whatever. Then, through some unspecified means, she manages to break whatever magical effect is maintaining her alignment. Perhaps turning human (or whatever) is a side effect or a part of making this work, or maybe it's the point.
You are just describing Lucifer from Neil Gaiman.
Which is not a bad source of inspiration really.
The idea is more for an NPC, i was just thinking about what would make a Red Dragon go good and looking for something that would motivate them for going good.
Again, it depends on what your world says about dragons. If youre asking what would make a WOTC designed Adult Red Dragon on the continent of Faerun turn from Lawful Evil to Lawful Good alignment, thats a totally different question from, "What would it take to turn a destructive, evil, greedy dragon character into a good natured pacifist?" In Faerun, Dragonss dont have a choice. They conform to their nature like any other law of the universe. Objects fall towards the ground, heat rises, and the sun shines, and a Red Dragon WILL seek out gold, minions, and commit evil acts in search of power. In the Pern books, Dragons all align with the nature of their chosen human. Totally different. So reframe your question. Are you talking about an established DnD world, or are you writing a dragon in a homebrew setting? Because the answer for the Homebrew setting is gonna be "You decide".
Considering they're asking the question, it seems like the question is less "is it possible in my world" and more "can you please help me find a reason why a chaotic evil red dragon would voluntary turn good, because I want a good red dragon but can't think of why they'd be motivated to turn good"
Yeah, you got it! I know i can just make a good red dragon but i want the drama, the redemption, the reasons!
Not to single out OP, but this is a very common issue when discussing D&D worldbuilding that's been bugging me for a long time. Sometimes it's impossible to gauge how close someone is trying to stay to D&D FR lore, especially if they invoke very specific terms like (in this example) "ancient red dragon" and thus imply that they have the official framework of metallic and chromatic dragons instead of generic terms like "ancient evil dragon".
> dont have a choice Dang, did 5e do them that dirty that theres no free will anymore?
> the Tiamat campaign Hi, non 5e person here, Could you be more specific as i wouldnt mind reading this myself. Ty, for your time.
You can get the developers view on the adventure here: https://koboldpress.com/the-rise-of-tiamat-a-dms-and-players-overview/ The short version is that it was the first 5e campaign, and in the second half two councils feature very heavily one where you try to convince humanoid lords, guilds, etc to band together because this threat is just that big. And the second is a council of the oldest and most respected metallic dragons, who you are trying to convince to fight in war in mass against Tiamat 's cult. In the dragon council they all come in with different views on what matters and what is the right thing to do, most of them don't see any reason to help. I believe it is the bronze, but might be brass, who gives an argument against "well they're both evil and good so saving them is not something we should do as it perpetuates evil in the world, unlike us metallic dragons who are all good". The counter is that is why the metallics should save humanoids, because they can choose and more choose good than evil. It is not valuable for a gold dragon to behave as it does for they have no choice, they can only be good. But handouts are free to choose and most choose good, which makes them worth saving.
....This all being said, if you're the DM you can just ignore/modify these details to your heart's content and there's nothing anyone can do to stop you (except leave the table, anyway, but seriously, who fusses over that?). "You're in Faerun, but the dragons have free will. Why? Because I'm the DM, and what I say about the setting goes."
I mean, even more recent WotC content has pretty much defanged the idea of a lack of free will, with good chromatics and evil metallics being made an option on books like Fizbans'. Tyranny of Dragons was also outsourced to and written by Kobold Press at the time, since WotC had fewer employees on the writing team, so writing-wise things may have changed in the past 10 (!!!) years since it was written.
Not really a fan of the removal of alignments the way they did, all they need to state is that the DM is by no means required to follow the alignments, but they could be accepted as the expectation for the typical creature by the typical person.
I mean, they didn't exactly remove alignments, and the average alignment is still pretty much implied. On these random alignment tables, Chromatics are still predominately evil, metallic dragons predominately good and and gem dragons predominately evil, with their statblock specifically saying "typically neutral". I feel like that's more or less implied here.
Silly reason: He drew a deck of many things and got the change in aligment card and the wish one, he turned Lawful Good and then wish for a humble form. Serious reason: The last party of adventurers that made it to his lair make him question his motivations and if it is really worth it to just be a prick with everyone.
"I have no enemies." - this dragon.
Deck of Many Things or like that Devil in BGDiA is now Chaotic Good š
I would argue that you can't make a dragon "question his motivation". Its motivation is "I'm a motherf\*cking dragon, and you're not."
Hah! My first thought, and Iām glad it was an established answer already.
More believable would be the dragon being turned against their will and fighting to earn their form back, eventually turning good
This is a lot more interesting. My favorite phrase is "the most important events in a PC's life are the ones that happen during the campaign." A dragon turning good is huge. super important and life changing, you don't want that to be something that happened off screen. Being cursed with mortality and learning to like it is why more interesting.
That's one of the proposed backstories in Hoard of the Dragon Queen.
Sheer boredom is a decent excuse for an ancient being. It got tired of being the bad guy and wants to try something new.
I think this could work... Basically ancient dragon is bored, but keeps seeing these scrawny mortals make self-sacrificing decisions in the face of unwinnable odds and becomes obsessed with understanding why. After a few failed attempts where they tried to be good but then relapsed when the going got tough, they decide to use True Polymorph to fully commit to solve the one big mystery that still eludes them.Ā
The problem with that plans it that True Polymorph ends the moment the dragon has 0 hit points in its new form. Like... the very first time they go down in a fight.
Wow, not sure how I didn't realize that... I assumed that once it was permenant it would lose the 0 hp clause. It's a pretty awful 9th level spell of it only transforms something until it gets hurt enough...Ā
There are still so many ways to make it more or less permanent, just not using the creature to creature option. Polymorph a creature into an anchor and drop them to the bottom of the ocean. Polymorph someone into a copy of the world's most boring book and hide them in the world's biggest library. Polymorph someone into a rare coin and sell them to a collector.
A wager with a powerful entity to "conquer" and prove their worth, but do so according to the restrictions of morality, and it has started to stick, and in the end, the dragon realized it preferred the new life to the old? Variation: for some reason swore an oath of service to a good-aligned entity and over time seeing things from that different perspective made them reflect on things Variation: the heroic efforts of a redemption paladin, or a cleric of peace; or true love (that began as obsession/greed)
oof, i'm sorry but as a DM that makes my head hurt. Would you start at level 1? Mortal but what race? what happens when you go down? wouldn't you light up like a christmas tree as magical? everyone would think you were something else in disguise. you are probably going to have to do more than one quest to call this a win to the good side. I don't even know except slaying someone huge (another ancient?) maybe two or three to get this done. Have you talked to your DM about this?
I don't think most of this is an issue, yes True Polymorph specifically wouldn't work, but I don't think its a big deal to homebrew some way for a dragon to abandon all their power and start as level 1, without any mechanical shenanigans or remaining magic. The main issue is your last two points, this is a big thing that should not be happening in backstory, and OP should be going to their DM for help making this work before reddit.
I'm the DM, it's more of a theorycraft on what would make the dragon change.
Ah, in that case. True Polymorph would work, just note that if they hit 0 then they would turn back into a dragon. Technically, Wish isn't supposed to do anything more powerful than a 9th level spell, but I'd definitely let that be an effect of it, especially if its a nerf, assuming they've given up their dragon powers for (essentially) forever to just become a mortal NPC. So the dragon or maybe a deity/powerful wizard using Wish to do it would probably be fine. Also, I don't think as a player I would question it. If the DM was like "This dragon gave up their powers and became human," I wouldn't question if explicit box rules were used to it, (although I may still wonder how they did it). Hell, even if they said "any dragon can do this pretty easily, but none of them choose to because they are powerful magic representation of elements and ideals, so changing like that isn't really their schtick," I wouldn't question it.
Good is subjective. Chromatic dragons are self serving to a fault. All you need is a Red Dragon who justifies good actions as serving their self interest. Red Dragons also have a desire to dominate, so they would need an outlet for that. My suggestion would be a red dragon who got tired of always having to defend their territory from adventures who wanted to save the people. So, they decided to run their kingdom to the benefit of the people. Happy people produce more tribute, and don't go around hiring adventures to kill them. It's just easier that way. After a century, they come to be fond of the people, having seen multiple generations, and start to see the people as a part of their hoard. And nothing incites a dragon to fury more than someone messing with their treasure, so they defend their people mightily. And seek for them to prosper because when they prosper, the hoard grows. Think Michael from *the Good Place*. That.... Or there's always a head injury-induced personality change.
It's been done in my campaign before through two means--helm of opposite alignment and Compel spell. It's also happened over a long period of time where a red dragon was subdued and slouched from lower case e evil to neutral and eventually to lower case g good. But that literally took 3 centuries to get there.
Give the dragon a base sin. I'll use greed because I like Ecclesiastes. Been there, got that. Came this close to owning it all and faced the question: then what? Where does it end? Perhaps another NPC who didn't seem to value the tangible things (monkish) helped them see the hollow wasn't being filled by the stuff. Tries something "good" and liked the feeling. Friend dies, they try to give up their life so friend lives, end up their soul in friend's body. Now trying to do what friend did the way they did it. Let's say they are in their friend's form. Conflict between how true person lived vs their actions now- drama and hints to truth. Conflict between old way of thinking and new way they are trying to see it. A lot depends on if you want dragon to still have old treasures, magic, hit points, stats. I see lots of role-playing possibilities the less they have direct access to and the weaker they are. It means they need others more.
You took your inspiration from uncle Iroh: one of the best written mentor characters in widespread media. Why not go all in into it? >In his search of greatness he lost something precious, thus learning how wealth and power are fleeting, and true satisfaction can only be found by helping others in the present moment. Also try to reframe evil and good in more "practical" terms: >In what way did he use to be evil? Was he a predator with no concern for their pray? Was he one to squander the wealth of others for their own complacency? Was he one in search of *something* no matter the cost? Was he a ruthless tyrant? Was he one to enjoy the suffering of others for his own fun? Based on his way of being evil you can paint a relevent redemption arc.
Ooooh, I did this once for a NPC, but my girl Yarika wasn't true polymorphed only in disguise all the time. The reason was pure motherly instincts. After nearly losing her eggs in an ambush while she was sleeping, she decided to disappear and raise her kids in peace. She started as neutral evil, become true neutral and eventually neutral good
A Red Dragon who renounced Tiamat and swore an Oath to Bahamut could work. Make them a Human Paladin to keep the flavor continuity.
Depends what you want to do. But also define "good". Personally I really find it funny the idea of a dragon that starts banking or capitalism in its domain and this works for the betterment of its profit capacity.
Why not do it the other way around, and get polymorphed into a weak mortal? Then when they are helped by some altruistic people who want nothing in return, the dragon has to reconsider their moral stance.
This is an awesome idea
A dragon that reached ancient years and was still evil would take something pretty serious and soul-wrenching to get through to, I think. Someone would have to rock their world and show this wyrm that ruthless self interest wasn't more fulfilling or rewarding. Perhaps the dragon devastated a city and made off with their valuables. Takes everything to a hoard, then comes back to revel in their despair and misery only to find that they're rebuilding, making plans, wounded but not defeated. Some are even celebrating a holiday, mere days after the dragon attack! Stays for a while to learn more about why these vermin's spirits didn't break and begins to grow to appreciate mortal strengths.
Though your character concept is neat, it's flimsy. They're going to return to their true form the moment they drop to 0 hit points, so the first time you go down in a fight... whoops, you're an ancient dragon again.
There is a good red dragon that's been mentioned back in some Mystara setting stuff I believe, though that was back when the game was 3 alignments of L, N, C and not the 9 alignments we have now. Might be a source of inspiration if you can track stuff down. Provided the dragon has/ or obtains, free will in the setting. IT could simply have started due to practicality. Everything I see is my possession. I keep good care of my possessions. That town is mine, and those goblins are threatening it. they'll know their place. Circumstances happened enough that more tribute was given when it aided the town. the cycle continues until its something resembling good. Perhaps bahamut is involved, perhaps not.
It would depend on the setting. It's worth pointing out that alignment in D&D is a little whacky. It often refers to Cosmic alignment with the forces of the upper/lower planes, and neutral can even be alignment with a philosophy known as "the balance". Also it's worth pointing out that Dragons *are* mortal. They have souls that go places when they die. They just are much more innately strong than other mortal beings like humans, or Elves. There are many ways a Red Dragon might end up "good" aligned though as D&D is full of magical artefacts that can change a person's alignment. It could be something as simple as coming into possession of an artefact that changes their alignment or something as deep as getting stranded in a dimension [assuming this is Forgotten Realms] where Tiamat, and Bahamut's claws cannot reach, and having the opportunity to choose a path forward, and be influenced by subtle things over time. That or the Dragon could just not be native to Toril, and came from some other world originally.
I personally like the idea that, after centuries of hoarding wealth and power, some group of adventurers managed to reach him, but were unable to defeat him. He allowed them last words, and when they spent their last minute simply talking to eachother and how nice their journey had been, and learned they weren't here for wealth or power but instead found out they just needed a magic item to save another friend from a curse, he for the first time in his hundreds or thousands of years of living, had seen selflessness. He isn't necessarily good after this, but seeing something he hadn't ever seen before, decided to allow the adventurers to take the small trinket to save their friend, on the condition he is allowed to accompany them in human form to see what kind of person would have a group willingly accept death to save them, and have them be smiling and laughing over their adventures when staring down certain doom.
A bet! Just a stupid bet between two ancient dragons. "I bet you couldn't live a life as a good human." What's 80 years to an ancient semi-immortal being? They start off pretending to be good, but eventually learn it's not that bad. They get show off how strong they are, kill their enemies, and horde treasure.
First of all, there are good chromatic dragons and evil metalic dragons. The book alignments are just the most common. And...pretty much whatever you want. Racial good/evil are culture things. So start there. Why was this dragon evil? Is that issue something that has been dealt with? Did it simply kill so many people that it became disgusted with itself? My own dragons are structured under a council of Great Wyrms calling themselves Prismere. The Red Dragon(Searingwind) is Chaotic Good and the Gold Dragon(Emperius) is Lawful Evil. The previous Bronze Dragon(Eng'Rashir) was also Lawful Evil and turned himself into a Dracolich, killed 3 of his siblings(Eng'Rakaan, Eng'Rhykke, and Eng'Rhysse) and raised 2 as Dracoliches to serve him, and was killed by the last one who took his place, as Chaotic Good(Eng'Rotha). Most of the others haven't had a lot of screen time. And in my games, only one Great Wyrm of each type can exist at a time.
If you're interested, here's the current list of members of the Prismere council: Amethyst:Ā Ansylla- NG Black:Ā Fafnir- LE Blue:Ā Typhonetria- LE Brass:Ā Kite- NG Bronze:Ā Eng'Rotha- CG Copper:Ā Galadaeros- CG Crystal:Ā Gemcloak- N Emerald:Ā Raulothim- LN Gold:Ā Emperius- LE Green:Ā Animus- CE Moonstone:Ā Meralunas- N Purple:Ā Deep Stalker- NE Red:Ā Searingwind- CG Sapphire:Ā Feroxi- NG Silver:Ā Glacius- CN Topaz:Ā Astilabor- LN White:Ā Winter- NE
There is the deck of many things that has a chance to change the tendency of who picks them, there is a beholder in forgotten realms canon that turned good because of those
The dragon meets a human which it develops a respect for, perhaps for their cunning, boldness, beauty, or something else. He imprisons her, seeing the interesting little creature as another jewel for the hoard. At first, the human is fierce, hostile, and rebellious. The dragon finds her quite amusing. He particularly enjoys spooking the human; he's more stealthy than he looks, and he loves flaunting his power. As one would expect, they both have contempt for each other's perspectives on power and morality. Inevitably, the two learn more about each other. The human observes the vicious world the dragon lives in, where enemies and rivals constantly conspire to kill the dragon for its gold. Even the dragon's own allies speak deceitfully, daggers at the ready should he ever turn his back. On some days, the dragon returns to the hoard quietly at dusk, stained with its own blood. On one of those days, she opens her mouth as usual to goad him for his weakness, but for some reason the words escape her. No taunting or banter, just a weary, weary silence. At the same time, the dragon observes the human. Each day when he finishes patrolling his territory, he stands briefly by his hoard's entrance, using his superior senses to check for intruders. Occasionally, he hears the human chatting with the birds that sometimes enter while he's away. He teases her relentlessly for it, but she doesn't stop doing it. Sometimes, he returns to hear a familiar voice singing a melancholic folk song. The ancient dragon is far older than the song, yet for some reason it makes him feel nostalgic. He waits for her to finish without interruption. If she notices, she doesn't acknowledge it. One day, a group of mind flayers sneak into the lair while the dragon is asleep. They ask the human to comply with them and point out the dragon's weaknesses, promising to let her go free. She promptly resists the mind control with sheer will and raises the alarm, and the intruders are roasted alive. Afterwards, she will claim that the mind flayers would not have kept their end of the promise. Another day, a different dragon visits, sharing information about a common threat. During their conversation, the visitor makes an offhanded insult towards the human. His host's snarling, vitriolic response surprises him. The visitor leaves in a hurry, leaving out bits and pieces of information. Afterwards, he will claim that for a dragon to mock another dragon's hoard is a serious insult. Decades pass just like this. The dragon begins to notice her greying hairs and crow's feet. Their verbal jousting is much less frenetic than it had been when they met, yet he finds himself enjoying it all the same. Yet, there is an unsettling anxiety building up in him. With great inconvenience, the dragon arranges a nutritious diet and magical healthcare for the human. She is not impressed. His uneasiness continues to grow. It all comes to a head when a powerful cult breaks into his lair while he is away and steals several things, including his prisoner. The dragon flies out in a rage, searching for his belongings. He has little success. Once his rage cools, he begins to scheme. His foes have teleportation magic; he would need to sneak up on them in order to have his vengeance. He decides to transform and blend in with the weaklings. After all, he's spent enough time with his human to imitate a particularly sassy, sarcastic woman. He begins to gather information in his human guise. At first, he returns to his hoard each night, jealously guarding it from any other intruders. But eventually he recognizes that one day's flight is not far enough to find his foes. ~~And the chillingly silent nights are getting to him.~~ He begins to leave for longer and longer, leaving his hoard unguarded. For some reason, the piles of gold are growing distasteful to him. He sets aside the other stolen treasures, focused on finding his crown jewel. He leaves no stone unturned in his search. He dances among the royal elites, trading favors for information on religious groups. He bribes beggars outside dive bars and whorehouses, learning rumors of kidnappings and murders. To learn all that he can, he tastes all that humanity has to offer. He meets many whose lives are not so different from his own. One evening, he returns to his hoard and realizes he hasn't been there in months. There are other treasures missing, but the familiar feeling of rage is absent. In the palace of his mind, he sees two paths. Something within him changes. This place isn't home. The dragon leaves, and does not come back. In the end, the dragon enlists the help of a group of adventurers to help find his missing friend and defeat the cult. Working with heroes instead of the usual scheming monsters is a breath of fresh air. At last, the cult is uncovered, and the party rescues a large group of imprisoned sacrifices, among which is her. They have an emotional reunion where they at last admit their respect, love, and trust for each other. She had always believed that that stubborn, arrogant dragon would save her. And he had never stopped searching, discarding everything else to find his most precious treasure. He transforms back, spooking the party. With hearty laughter, the two fly off into a new future. The party is just glad they don't have two boss fights in a row. Years later, your party encounters an old man, humming an old folk song. Despite never having heard it before, they get a sense of nostalgia.
Wish spell with a very defined nature of good. You could literally unleash the ideological paladin from old that cannot allow evil in any form to exist. Example: A person sneezes into their hands instead of elbow, suddenly a torrent of flame pours upon them from above rending everything with fire including other people and the village they inhabit. All because a good person would never spread germs to their hands for easy dispersal to others. They should have more consideration for others unlike an evil person. I know I am being funny, but...some DMs love to turn things on the players. Then you are sent to kill the very LG principled dragon just serving the greater good.
There is a fun campaign called March of the Tyrant Wyrm that asks this exact question.
Can a dragon be afflicted by Were-Bear Lycanthropy?
[Can't believe there's a relevant overwatch short film for this question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ09xdxzIJQ)
Something similar happens to a Green Dragon in Dungeon of The Mad Mage. Though a sentient weapon being stuck in the dragonās head caused the change in that case.
He started just protecting what's his but then over time began to actually care for it and things kinda spiralled from there.
Sure. It got its ass handed to it by something way stronger in the way back when and it watched the goody goody forces of its time cage the stronger thing where it couldn't. Injured and with shattered pride, it would have a lot of time to think on the effectiveness of its choices and change - and quite a bit of shellshock and delirium to allow reflection to trump any ancestral memories. And now... Now the stronger thing is coming baaaaack...
It being a 9 to 5 job that puts them on a payroll which leads to more money than they could horde being evil
Dragons ancient. An old wizard used a wish on it or was a good natured person true polymorphed into a young dragon ages ago.
Maybe not turn good but mutual enemy's mean mutual allies.
Happened in an old campaign for me, My paladin was tasked by the dragon goddess, Tamara, to find a guardian for her temple. Heard that an ancient red dragon was residing in a volcano, Level 15 group went in and beat him very bloody until he agreed to convert to worshipping Tamara. Some divine magic light appears to confirm it and we had new temple guardian
In the Book of Exalted Deeds (not the 5e item, the 3.5e sourcebook), there was this crazy spell, "Sanctify the Wicked." It was an 8th level Necromancy spell that tears the soul out of an Evil creature, traps it in a Diamond for a year, and forces them to change alignment. The spell description gets really flowery about "reflecting on past evil deeds" and "finding a spark of goodness," but let's not mince words - it's an 8th level Necromancy Brainwashing spell, which the book considers to be morally pure Good. 3.5e was wild. But, it makes a good plot point - some looney Cleric, unable to slay or reason with a great Evil, cast a spell and out them into the time-out dimension for a year to think about what they did, now you have a weird friendly NPC. I used Sanctify the Wicked as a plot point in a game not too long ago- a Pit Fiend that underwent the spell and became good was the Patron for one of my player's Tiefling Warlock/Paladin. Their relationship was really sweet, as the Pit Fiend was adamant that nobody was beyond redemption- but it always had the insidious undercurrent that this was not a Natural or Willing transformation for the Fiend. Very spicy. In less horrifying fashion, you could always use the Power of Love.
Silver paint
Dragons, especially red dragons, are avatars of greed. What would inspire an ancient red dragon to turn good is an act of undeniable, pure generosity.
A local village had the custom of sacrificing humans to the dragon in order to stave off its wrath, and the dragon considered this a passable show of supplicationā¦ ā¦ until one year, the human sacrifice was a blind, limping child. First, the dragon was angry they sent such a wretched little snack instead of a proper meal, so it asked the child what it was doing there. The child said that well, times are tough, and its weak body canāt work the fields. Itās just one extra mouth to feed. Their parents didnāt say it out loud, but theyāll be happier now that itās gone. The dragon notices the scuffed knees and bloodied feet of the child who has stumbled its way all the way up the mountain and for the first time in its life realizes that it is possible to do something for *others*, not just for yourself. Feigning outrage, it gives the child a choice piece of treasure and carries it back to the village. āYour sacrifice is an insult to me. Your skinny limbs are not even worth picking my teeth with. Take this trinket, buy fat, juicy oxen, and sacrifice one of those to me next year.ā The treasure is worth a small fortune, and the village can use it to reverse its fortune entirely, buying grains and oxen. Ever since, the dragon has carefully monitored and protected the little village.
I was never a believer in alignment genes. How about a dragon that took mortal form, it thought temporarily, perhaps in order to access a treasure from a place that was too small or absolutely required hands. And it got stuck somehow. To return to its rightful form it needs to work amongst people.
There's a FR novel called "The God Catcher" in which the spellplague turns the adult blue dragon (named "Clytemorrenestrix", that was a nightmare to spell) into a human, and her morality changes throughout the story. Look up the story, you might get some inspiration for your own.
Imagination. Don't make dragon stereotype.
They are intelligent, unique individuals, like you and I, but with a greater ability of understanding and much, much grander perspective of the world over time. So chang8ng their minds is a thing they can do, be it out of self preservation (good guys in dmd are less likely to be home invaded by the heroes), or a life changing event (maybe they decide demons suck and go full tilt into the powers to fight them, or maybe they were simply raused by a Silver or whatever). The tldr here is they simply "can", and this has been a thing pretty much forever, even being codified in RAW during 3e. Just be aware of what the neighbours would think, seeing one of their own turn their back on thier culture
In my campaign, the BBEG is an ancient Red Dragon who was motivated, in part, by his infatuation with the Cleric PC's mother, a Harengon Druid. She was in love with someone else, and that unrequited love made him do terrible things. Their fates are pretty well sealed now, but what if she just asked him to be good and redeem himself before the worst happened? It's too late for that now, but she is still alive, in the Feywild and in a different form, but he doesn't know it. What if he could still save her by turning good now? I'm not sure we'll have a full redemption arc in our campaign, but you've given me something to think about for his next appearance. Thanks!
Dragons are egotistical, self-serving, power hungry, often sadistic (as in: they genuinely enjoy causing suffering), greedy etc. And they aren't like this due to their upbringing or environment, but because they are primordial manifestations of the forces of destruction and power. It would take some powerful magic, some hefty brainwashing and/or torture to turn such a being into basically the opposite of itself. Then it would be questionable, if it survives this process and does not go mad due to the inherent contradiction of its being. Imagine having gender dysphoria, but dialed to 11. Everything about your being is wrong. It would probably commit suicide after a minute.
The balance card from the deck of many things.
The loss of a beloved companion is a trope for a reason. For some, they go berserk and rage until the world burns. Dracula from Castlevania comes to mind. Others, like Uncle Iroh turn away from a life filled with destruction because the grief from their loss (his son Lu Ten) opens their eyes to the pain and suffering in the world. If you feel like that isn't enough, you could have their history be repeating. The dragon has lived for so long and has had many companions stolen from them due to their own actions. This turns it from, "I want to be a force for good" to a "I don't want to hurt anyone anymore." Eschewing their powers and abilities much like a warrior puts their sword down at the end of a long and bloody war.
Maybe love? Falling in love with someone that for the first time did not feel afraid of them? Only to lose them and then wanting to understand the world they lived in?
I would not question the whole "turning good" scenario... but, a dragon abandons not only his nature & morality but also his species? That would be like a human being deciding that because he murdered an innocent person... his best bet to make the world a better place, would be to become a field mouse. What acts of redemption will this field mouse do that would make up for the evil caused by the human? 1. reduced life span 2. reduced capability 3. reduced intelligence From the perspective of the human, how is this very much different from choosing to end their own life? ...or choosing to escape from the consequences / guilt of their own actions, by reducing their capacity to understand them. Same for the dragon.
You could check out the adventure Last March of the Tyrant Wyrm for motivation. https://www.dmsguild.com/product/299856/Last-March-of-the-Tyrant-Wyrm
Perhaps he got cyberbullied by some metallic dragon arsehole who established an unbreakable psychic link to it. Then it hurled verbal abuse at the red dragon until he finally agreed to turn good just to stop the dragon from talking. Just spitballing here... no wrong answers eh?
divine intervention probably could do that. A trickster god could just for fun turn a red dragon good, just to see how much chaos that will ensue. Otherwise it could be a divine punishment, the dragon still knows the ways of evil, but everytime he wants to slaughter the innocent and such he feels bad or has migraine or gets sick. So he is on a redemption path to get rid of this curse the God/Goddes put onto him. Edit1: the feeling only goes away if he does something good.
If Drizzt Do'Urden (and his PC knockoffs) can be the only good Dark Elf, then surely there can be a good Red Dragon. After all, Dragons are highly intelligent, why not have one rationalize their way to a state of enlightenment, even if it's against their base instincts. Isn't "Don't act with your base instincts" kind of a key premise of being 'good' IRL?
He's explicitly not the only good drow?
He's not. There's a Goddess who is specifically a patron to them actually. Eilistraee.
>Is there anything you can think of that would make an Ancient Red Dragon turn good? whatever is going to make a good story for the people around your table.
I mean, there's the most easy reason: Love. They might've genuinely fallen for a mortal; maybe humored them for a while, as they wanted to make pleasant conversation, but eventually fell for them and wanted to be better for them. This love doesn't even have to be romantic, he could've just made a really good friend. I kinda like the game The Cruel King and the Brave Hero as an example, as it's about an evil dragon king who was defeated by a hero, but then befriended by them as the hero forced him to try to attone, and then tasked, as the hero laid dying, to raise the hero's child to become a hero too, and growing to genuinely love this child like it was their own. Another might've been that they could've had a revelation about the world and themselves, which let them reflect on their actions and turn over a new leaf. Could've been of a divine nature maybe, by a cleric of Bahamut perhaps.
@OP They met a druid with weirdly high charisma who seduced them into being good. For extra laughs the druid often takes the form of a donkey.
Dragons in the Forgotten Realms have a vague kind of ancestral memory which makes them intelligent beings right out of the egg, but also makes them incapable of acting outside of their predetermined alignment, since all their moral choices were already made for them over numerous generations of ancestral memory. So then, what if a dragon's memory, ancestral or otherwise, was scrubbed clean? Such a dragon would have to make all their moral decisions from the ground up. They'd have to learn about the world on their own instead of knowing everything from birth, and as moral dilemmas arose they would have to make their own choices on how to approach them rather than having already made those choices generations ago.