I'd say yes. You're a frog. You have a frog's brain and think like a frog does. This includes not being able to comprehend that you've been polymorphed and that your froggy state is only temporary.
However, you keep your personality, so if you were an excitable person you'll be an excitable frog. If you were a lazy person you'll be a lazy frog. If you were an aggressive person you'll be an aggressive frog. And so on.
You may even recognise friends and enemies, although as a frog you'll not know why some of those giant humanoids are scary and others evoke feelings that you'd normally only feel towards a mate in breeding season and which make you want to hang around them.
From the spell itself
>The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced with that of the beast.
So yes if you turn into a chicken, you are as intelligent, as wise, and as charasmatic as a chicken.
Yes, you now think like a frog. You still recognize your friends and know who to attack. You shouldn't be able to make complex tactical decisions, or notice subtle spell effects
If you want to remain somewhat intelligent, consider polymorphing into a giant ape. One of the highest cr beasts and also has a reasonable intelligence score.
Yes, it absolutely does. If you polymorph into something with intelligence 2, then you have intelligence 2, slightly above someone hit with the Feeblemind spell. Intelligence 3 or 4 is required to be able to have free will and act on anything other than primal instincts, as far as I recall (though I can't remember which version of D&D I read this in)
>As a result, can you be trapped in a frog who does not know it is not a frog?
The spell specifies you still know you're you transformed into an animal, and thus you can still concentrate on the spell, but that's pretty much it, other than being able to recognise your allies (though now that I think about it, animal minds don't have the human brain's facial-recognition mechanisms, so that shouldn't technically be possible either)
It was 3 or 4, but in 5e many animals are listed with 3 intelligence. Though Ravens (or was it crows they have listed?) have 2 which annoys me because compared to the other animals listed they should have more like *four*. Things are around the level of chimps and dolphins.
>animal minds don't have the human brain's facial-recognition mechanisms, so that shouldn't technically be possible either)
Most animals can recognize specific humans, in some way, be it sight or scent or both. I mean, you wouldn't say a dog or cat can't tell the difference between different humans, right?
Crows can not only recognize specific humans but also communicate it to other Crows. Even Octopi can recognize specific humans and react differently to them.
Given that, it seems logical to me that most animals would be able to tell friend from foe.
Character recognition would seem to me to be more of Wisdom (Insight or Perception) than Intelligence (Investigation or Nature), especially for an animal, so I agree.
To add on to what everyone else has said: while a creature with low INT likely won't have a mind for developing and applying tactics on the spot, a creature with decent WIS can likely still be trained and conditioned like a domesticated animal companion. The player might RP the first few times in Polymorph as a mildly disorientating experience, only attacking and fleeing as their instincts might dictate. In downtime, the player could describe how the party Druid or Ranger teaches the character animal Pack Tactics and how to recognize commands from humanoid masters and other animals while in a Polymorphed form. This could be something fun to RP if you eventually want to move up from being a dumb animal to a dumb animal that acts smart.
This is why you turn people into giant apes (int 7) instead of T-Rexes. That's about as smart as your usual int dumping hulky fighter, and can reasonably be expected to follow group tactics with its foes. A T-Rex is just going to run forward and smash.
i think it will. You will still stay friendly, but you will be forced to role-play your new form, including his intelligence. I dont think you should go as far as the frog being trapped. i think you still retain your memories, although i dont know how that will interact with your new mental capability's
I know druid wildshape allows you to keep your intelligence and wisdom, why would polymorph be different? Unless it is supposed to be more of a crowdcontrol spell. Watching Critical Role and seeing Scanlan polymorph into a dinosaur he was able to keep his intelligence and roleplay as normal?
> I know druid wildshape allows you to keep your intelligence, charisma and wisdom, why would polymorph be different?
Because the Wild Shape description says you get to keep your mental scores and the Polymorph description doesn't.
>Watching Critical Role and seeing Scanlan polymorph into a dinosaur he was able to keep his intelligence and roleplay as normal?
If that's true, then he was metagaming, aka cheating.
I'll disagree on the cheating comment. Critical Role has a lot of homebrew tweaks in it. They don't play strictly to RAW. Characters maintaining intelligence is something they've done throughout the show. It's allowed by DM, and thus, not cheating.
Let me first say I enjoy the show, but, while there is a lot of homebrew, most of the time they just don't know the rules. But it seems like they are having fun so all's good.
Even if you have DM consent, it's still cheating the system, gaining an advantage you normally wouldn't have.
Making this change to polymorph partially devalues Wild Shape, since retaining your mind and ability to understand language, use tactics and subterfuge, and communicate while in beast form is a large part of that ability. The spell and the class feature have two distinct uses (polymorph is mainly supposed to be used on enemies), and merging them for the sake of simplicity dilutes both.
You seem to be confused about this game. DnD homebrew including tweaking spells is time honored, not cheating. It's fine if you like rules as written but dungeons and dragons has always been a framework for a game that would need to be built upon. It lays the groundwork for the dm and players to expand upon and alter to fit their needs. Rigidity in a table top game like this can make the experience a lesser one. Whereas flexibility is the cornerstone of creativity.
I'd say yes. You're a frog. You have a frog's brain and think like a frog does. This includes not being able to comprehend that you've been polymorphed and that your froggy state is only temporary. However, you keep your personality, so if you were an excitable person you'll be an excitable frog. If you were a lazy person you'll be a lazy frog. If you were an aggressive person you'll be an aggressive frog. And so on. You may even recognise friends and enemies, although as a frog you'll not know why some of those giant humanoids are scary and others evoke feelings that you'd normally only feel towards a mate in breeding season and which make you want to hang around them.
From the spell itself >The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced with that of the beast. So yes if you turn into a chicken, you are as intelligent, as wise, and as charasmatic as a chicken.
I would rather polymorph into a goose than a chicken. At least you are going to attack anything that approaches you.
As someone who used to take care of chickens, I disagree wholeheartedly with the belief that chickens do not attack. Seriously. Fuck roosters.
Yes, you now think like a frog. You still recognize your friends and know who to attack. You shouldn't be able to make complex tactical decisions, or notice subtle spell effects If you want to remain somewhat intelligent, consider polymorphing into a giant ape. One of the highest cr beasts and also has a reasonable intelligence score.
Giant apes are also one of the best attack forms. Giant eagles are pretty smart as well.
Yes, it absolutely does. If you polymorph into something with intelligence 2, then you have intelligence 2, slightly above someone hit with the Feeblemind spell. Intelligence 3 or 4 is required to be able to have free will and act on anything other than primal instincts, as far as I recall (though I can't remember which version of D&D I read this in) >As a result, can you be trapped in a frog who does not know it is not a frog? The spell specifies you still know you're you transformed into an animal, and thus you can still concentrate on the spell, but that's pretty much it, other than being able to recognise your allies (though now that I think about it, animal minds don't have the human brain's facial-recognition mechanisms, so that shouldn't technically be possible either)
It was 3 or 4, but in 5e many animals are listed with 3 intelligence. Though Ravens (or was it crows they have listed?) have 2 which annoys me because compared to the other animals listed they should have more like *four*. Things are around the level of chimps and dolphins.
>animal minds don't have the human brain's facial-recognition mechanisms, so that shouldn't technically be possible either) Most animals can recognize specific humans, in some way, be it sight or scent or both. I mean, you wouldn't say a dog or cat can't tell the difference between different humans, right? Crows can not only recognize specific humans but also communicate it to other Crows. Even Octopi can recognize specific humans and react differently to them. Given that, it seems logical to me that most animals would be able to tell friend from foe.
Character recognition would seem to me to be more of Wisdom (Insight or Perception) than Intelligence (Investigation or Nature), especially for an animal, so I agree.
Even bees can recognize individual humans. So it seems to be more common than we might think.
Very good points.
Good to know! My group hasn't gotten that far so the spell hasn't come up. I would have played that incorrectly.
To add on to what everyone else has said: while a creature with low INT likely won't have a mind for developing and applying tactics on the spot, a creature with decent WIS can likely still be trained and conditioned like a domesticated animal companion. The player might RP the first few times in Polymorph as a mildly disorientating experience, only attacking and fleeing as their instincts might dictate. In downtime, the player could describe how the party Druid or Ranger teaches the character animal Pack Tactics and how to recognize commands from humanoid masters and other animals while in a Polymorphed form. This could be something fun to RP if you eventually want to move up from being a dumb animal to a dumb animal that acts smart.
This is why you turn people into giant apes (int 7) instead of T-Rexes. That's about as smart as your usual int dumping hulky fighter, and can reasonably be expected to follow group tactics with its foes. A T-Rex is just going to run forward and smash.
i think it will. You will still stay friendly, but you will be forced to role-play your new form, including his intelligence. I dont think you should go as far as the frog being trapped. i think you still retain your memories, although i dont know how that will interact with your new mental capability's
Yes because Polymorph changes a creature into another creature. The original stat block is completely replaced by the new stat block.
I know druid wildshape allows you to keep your intelligence and wisdom, why would polymorph be different? Unless it is supposed to be more of a crowdcontrol spell. Watching Critical Role and seeing Scanlan polymorph into a dinosaur he was able to keep his intelligence and roleplay as normal?
> I know druid wildshape allows you to keep your intelligence, charisma and wisdom, why would polymorph be different? Because the Wild Shape description says you get to keep your mental scores and the Polymorph description doesn't. >Watching Critical Role and seeing Scanlan polymorph into a dinosaur he was able to keep his intelligence and roleplay as normal? If that's true, then he was metagaming, aka cheating.
I'll disagree on the cheating comment. Critical Role has a lot of homebrew tweaks in it. They don't play strictly to RAW. Characters maintaining intelligence is something they've done throughout the show. It's allowed by DM, and thus, not cheating.
Let me first say I enjoy the show, but, while there is a lot of homebrew, most of the time they just don't know the rules. But it seems like they are having fun so all's good.
Even if you have DM consent, it's still cheating the system, gaining an advantage you normally wouldn't have. Making this change to polymorph partially devalues Wild Shape, since retaining your mind and ability to understand language, use tactics and subterfuge, and communicate while in beast form is a large part of that ability. The spell and the class feature have two distinct uses (polymorph is mainly supposed to be used on enemies), and merging them for the sake of simplicity dilutes both.
I bet you're fun at parties
You seem to be confused about this game. DnD homebrew including tweaking spells is time honored, not cheating. It's fine if you like rules as written but dungeons and dragons has always been a framework for a game that would need to be built upon. It lays the groundwork for the dm and players to expand upon and alter to fit their needs. Rigidity in a table top game like this can make the experience a lesser one. Whereas flexibility is the cornerstone of creativity.
Oh ok, well that's good to know. I was considering taking polymorph for my bard. I may still.