The author of this post has chosen the 'Serious' flair. Off-topic, sarcastic, or irrelevant comments will be removed, and frequent rule-breakers will be subject to a ban.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/doctorsUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sure this is a totally isolated event and in no way represents a change in UK politics as labour start losing their grip on previously captive voter bases that have specific, cohesive interests.
Specific cohesive interests that consist of only a single issue?
It's relatively difficult to deal with such people who have such a fixation on only one thing. There's also no real need to when you're already forecast to win such a huge majority without pandering to them.
This is bad politics. If you take a groups vote for granted and don’t represent them you end up with the last 14 years.
Labour made a choice to go softer on their policy on Gaza than would be expected based on their prev expressed values and the views of their base (due to prev antisemitism and attempts to detoxify the brand). They felt they could take the left Muslim vote for granted but this just shows if they don’t work something out then another party can emerge that better fits the views of those groups. They should heed the warning or accept that they’ll lose some of these seats going forward (if they think changing policy will cost more seats elsewhere).
Realistically given they got a corbyn 2019 vote share; they’re unlikely to hold a majority next time without some massive changes and luck. Need to attract swathes of new voters and hold the tories down. Else the right surge across the world (France, US, Germany etc) will be coming to our shores too
> Realistically given they got a corbyn 2019 vote share; they’re unlikely to hold a majority next time without some massive changes and luck. Need to attract swathes of new voters and hold the tories down. Else the right surge across the world (France, US, Germany etc) will be coming to our shores too
Proportional representation could help. While historically, conservatives have tended to dominate, if you lump labour/lib dem/green together, the numbers absolutely smash conservative/reform.
Under PR these gaza independents could form a party and be kingmakers in a coalition (look at Israel now, the most far right democracy in the world because a few absolute nutters with 5-10 seats control the balance of power).
If you want PR you need a system with many more guardrails than our current one, where parliament is completely dominant. You'd need full constitutional overhaul. Not against it but not sure that's the way to go at a time of political volatility.
> look at Israel now, the most far right democracy in the world because a few absolute nutters with 5-10 seats control the balance of power
Apologies, you're right - I think what I'd have in mind as a system that could potentially work well would be a runoff system.
Separate out prime minister & constituency voting. Have runoff for prime minister (getting rid of tactical voting and having to make the choice of voting for local representation or national representation) and use FPTP for constituency.
That makes no sense as you could have a primeminister who is different to the largest party and the system would be unworkable. That doesnt work without entirely reorganising the government and massive constitutional change.
I broadly agree, although I think all they need to do is show improvement, which is a pretty radical idea in he UK at this point.
Not sure they’ll achieve it, They’ll slow the decline for aure
>and he was correct, given the election results
I mean, yes and no.
Labour basically gained nothing in terms of vote share. I think the analyst the beeb had on summed it up best: people didn't vote for labour - they voted against the torys.
Well, when that becomes a realistic concern they can think about pandering to this particular part of the electorate. But while they celebrate such a huge majority I think it's a fairly pointless thing to knitpick about. You can call it bad politicking, but politics is about results, and they have the results, Gaza voters or no.
Especially as we can reasonably expect most of these people to have largely forgotten about the Gaza issue in 5 years' time.
As for your final remark- there's not much Labour can do. It's been pretty clear for a while now that the Left/Right vote doesn't actually change all that much, it's just down to how the vote splits between parties in our FPTP system. Reform won this huge majority for Labour, single issue Muslim votes obsessed with Gaza are less than relevant, they certainly won't save Labour next time if things swing the other way.
Well, it's only a shambles if you disagree with it. I'm not entirely sure the slightly obsessive position taken by certain communities on Gaza is a great bell-weather for coherent foreign policy.
Labour's policy is essentially in-step with the US plans which are the best hope to bringing a ceasefire about. It's hardly a "shambles".
The author of this post has chosen the 'Serious' flair. Off-topic, sarcastic, or irrelevant comments will be removed, and frequent rule-breakers will be subject to a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/doctorsUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Would’ve been very funny if he’d lost
[удалено]
God I was hoping for his loss, Labour landslide but he's not in it would be fucking hilarious
Not especially safe anyhow. But this was the Muslim population single-issue-voting over Gaza. Nothing really to do with party politics anyway.
Immigration will dominate the next 5 years of politics
Over the whole of Europe I think.
Wait until the climate refugees start coming
Well, this was Gaza. Foreign policy issues like this typically get forgotten about as soon as they're off the news.
It will be broadened into an argument about single issue voting in Muslim populations/lack of integration and they’ll link it to immigration.
Ahh I get you. Yeah that is a pretty commonly held sentiment
I'm sure this is a totally isolated event and in no way represents a change in UK politics as labour start losing their grip on previously captive voter bases that have specific, cohesive interests.
Specific cohesive interests that consist of only a single issue? It's relatively difficult to deal with such people who have such a fixation on only one thing. There's also no real need to when you're already forecast to win such a huge majority without pandering to them.
This is bad politics. If you take a groups vote for granted and don’t represent them you end up with the last 14 years. Labour made a choice to go softer on their policy on Gaza than would be expected based on their prev expressed values and the views of their base (due to prev antisemitism and attempts to detoxify the brand). They felt they could take the left Muslim vote for granted but this just shows if they don’t work something out then another party can emerge that better fits the views of those groups. They should heed the warning or accept that they’ll lose some of these seats going forward (if they think changing policy will cost more seats elsewhere). Realistically given they got a corbyn 2019 vote share; they’re unlikely to hold a majority next time without some massive changes and luck. Need to attract swathes of new voters and hold the tories down. Else the right surge across the world (France, US, Germany etc) will be coming to our shores too
> Realistically given they got a corbyn 2019 vote share; they’re unlikely to hold a majority next time without some massive changes and luck. Need to attract swathes of new voters and hold the tories down. Else the right surge across the world (France, US, Germany etc) will be coming to our shores too Proportional representation could help. While historically, conservatives have tended to dominate, if you lump labour/lib dem/green together, the numbers absolutely smash conservative/reform.
Under PR these gaza independents could form a party and be kingmakers in a coalition (look at Israel now, the most far right democracy in the world because a few absolute nutters with 5-10 seats control the balance of power). If you want PR you need a system with many more guardrails than our current one, where parliament is completely dominant. You'd need full constitutional overhaul. Not against it but not sure that's the way to go at a time of political volatility.
> look at Israel now, the most far right democracy in the world because a few absolute nutters with 5-10 seats control the balance of power Apologies, you're right - I think what I'd have in mind as a system that could potentially work well would be a runoff system. Separate out prime minister & constituency voting. Have runoff for prime minister (getting rid of tactical voting and having to make the choice of voting for local representation or national representation) and use FPTP for constituency.
That makes no sense as you could have a primeminister who is different to the largest party and the system would be unworkable. That doesnt work without entirely reorganising the government and massive constitutional change.
You could. However I think it would be unlikely for everyone to vote UKIP for national elections and green for constituency.
I broadly agree, although I think all they need to do is show improvement, which is a pretty radical idea in he UK at this point. Not sure they’ll achieve it, They’ll slow the decline for aure
[удалено]
>and he was correct, given the election results I mean, yes and no. Labour basically gained nothing in terms of vote share. I think the analyst the beeb had on summed it up best: people didn't vote for labour - they voted against the torys.
Well, when that becomes a realistic concern they can think about pandering to this particular part of the electorate. But while they celebrate such a huge majority I think it's a fairly pointless thing to knitpick about. You can call it bad politicking, but politics is about results, and they have the results, Gaza voters or no. Especially as we can reasonably expect most of these people to have largely forgotten about the Gaza issue in 5 years' time. As for your final remark- there's not much Labour can do. It's been pretty clear for a while now that the Left/Right vote doesn't actually change all that much, it's just down to how the vote splits between parties in our FPTP system. Reform won this huge majority for Labour, single issue Muslim votes obsessed with Gaza are less than relevant, they certainly won't save Labour next time if things swing the other way.
There was also Starmer's comments about Bangladeshi immigrants.
Well, asylum speakers specifically.
It has everything to do with party politics, just the absolute shamble of their foreign policy rather than their domestic policy
Well, it's only a shambles if you disagree with it. I'm not entirely sure the slightly obsessive position taken by certain communities on Gaza is a great bell-weather for coherent foreign policy. Labour's policy is essentially in-step with the US plans which are the best hope to bringing a ceasefire about. It's hardly a "shambles".
[удалено]
[удалено]
Don't worry guys, Wes' phone is on 0% after last night, but he will ring, I'm sure...
Would honestly have sacrificed my child\* to see him lose ( I don't have a child, it's fine)
Now he can continue on with the doctor bashing and PA pushing. 😶
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]