Yep, still there. I watched the bad wolf eps earlier this week (I’m not entirely sure why, but Dot and Bubble made me want to revisit the game station).
You see, Woke things only happen in the present, where I can believe they are being brought about by a conspiracy. If the same things were happening before then, then it's fine, because it wasn't "forced". Same reason women are allowed to be the lead in Alien, but not Star Wars, or Marvel movies, or Doctor Who.
In fairness, though, Captain Jack was a loveable queer tramp we got time to get to know and like. Rogue just showed up like Jack 2.0 and we're supposed to immediately feel the same way about him? Rushed romance feels forced no matter the characters.
He's not Jack 2.0 anymore than River Song is. Queer, sci-fi, trigger happy, end of similarities.
What's important is the relationships with the doctor and the companion are totally different, rogue barely speaks to Ruby, he flirts with the doctor, he's shy about it, he's a brooder. The romance isn't rushed, it's weird he proposed out of the blue, but he was acting (and it took less time to marry Marylin XD), the kiss was a goodbye before leaving for a barren dimension.
You're not supposed to feel the same way at all, like him, dislike him, be indifferent about him, it's fine
Charismatic, traveling alone, charming, handsome, time traveling (music released after episode setting), ship of questionable ownership, questionable work (who's the new boss?), work history in law (time agent / bounty hunter), cloaked ship, music on board, they even sound similar.
I think they're more similar than River Song.
That said, great episode.
Well the dynamic was different. It’s not the kiss that shocks people, it’s the romantic/sensual intent behind it. We can’t argue that anything like this has happened before because 14 himself said it was a new attraction towards anyone male-presenting in Wild Blue Yonder (well, not explicitly but it was pretty clear that’s what he was referring to). Yes it’s ridiculous for people to be upset with this if they weren’t upset with past Doctor romances, but to argue this isn’t anything new is ignoring something that *is* new and important representation.
I read his reaction to Newton as him once again being surprised he was admitting such things out loud. Like when he told someone he loved Donna.
It wasn't new.
What was new was the emotional ability to say it. Donna even starts to say she always thought something about it, but was cut off by the TARDIS leaving.
Which means it will be new to act on but the attraction to the same sex is not a new thing, and I think we saw in Ncuti's choices in a few moments that he is playing the not used to acting on this thing.
I mean, Jack clearly felt something for the Doctor; in the Sound of Drums, the Doctor explains to Martha the concept of perception filters using the metaphor of fancying someone when they barely know you exist, after which Jack tells Martha "You too, huh?"
Yeah - I think this is Jack erasure!
This episode with Rogue was a great one episode romance for the Doctor and really my favorite by a country mile. But I thought Jack was there with the kiss before Torchwood!
Didn’t the TARDIS also kiss the Doctor, and nibble his ear??
*Biting is excellent, it is like kissing only there is a winner,* followed by him naming Tardis “sexy.”
I mean, Rogue DID propose, after all... suitors sounds about right... and when Rogue was talking about losing someone, my mind automatically went to Jack anyway, thinking maybe that's who Rogue lost at some point in time, too...
That seemed less a sex attraction thing, and more a farewell thing. The other love.
Hell, go bsck further, watch the last episode of the Green Death and tell me Three didnt have a thing for Jo?
He did, and Pertwees reasoning for leaving the show was partly the Delgados death as well as Jos actress leaving. The chemistry was so good with Three and Jo!
Because the point OP is trying to make is "The doctor has been straight for long enough, now let him be gay."
If they included him kissing Jack or Rory then it diminishes OP's "mike drop" moment.
Although, IIRC Jack's and Rory's kisses were brief and not at all romantic.
I’m generally fine with the doctor being with anyone as long as they have good chemistry, which The Rogue definitely did. I honestly kinda hated how many random love interests 10 had that were just random flings. Majority of them were pretty boring characters.
This episode put me right back to The Girl in the Fireplace. Ten had his one-day fling and snog as well. What’s the point of a party if you don’t kiss at least one person?
Didn't 9 make a quip about how something that happens when you travel is you "wind up kissing total strangers. Or is that just me?"
Heck the 1st Doctor got accidentally engaged once. You travel the universe for centuries, stuff's gonna happen.
That was weird for me though. 900-odd year old Time Lord appears in a child's fireplace, then from his pov he dips and comes back to snog her older self.
It feels grubby
Especially since he knows that however it ended, she was pretty bitter about it as he ran into her at the end of The Shakespeare Code and she tried to have him beheaded and shot with arrows. I'd play along too.
I'd really love to see an episode where, like, all the humans have something happen to them, but a subset of the population are unaffected, and The Doctor is confused about this the whole episode until it's revealed the unaffected portion were Zygons.
To be fair, I didn't like any of his "relationships". That said I've not watched the new episode so not sure whats up.
I started watching Doctor Who with John Pertwee and Tom Baker. I like him being a father/uncle figure. It's always weird when a companion starts getting fresh with him for me.
I don't need that kinda thing to make things interesting or dramatic so would be fine it it didnt happen at all.
As I was watching this I was imagining Tom Baker and Patrick Troughton coming up to someone and initiating aggressive flirting right off the back. So uncomfortable.
From what I've seen so far, everyone either used to like the kissing and still likes it, or never liked it and still doesn't. I haven't seen anyone say they used to like it and now don't
I would say I've come around against it. I used to like it, or rather, I didn't have a problem with it. As time has gone on, I have recognized it as more and more of a problem (most notably Ten's kissing with Rose and Martha, as well as one-off characters like Lady Katherine). That said, there are kisses in Early New Who that I think still have goox narrative reason for being in the show. Lady de Pompadour I think fits really well. Jackie kissing 10 as a bit is still entertaining (if only because Tenant performs really well in that scene) and Donna kissing 10 in The Unicorn and the Wasp is still pretty fun. But romantic intent between two vastly differently matured characters is a problem with Who. That said, I did not have a problem with Rogue.
I’m in the camp of those who never liked it. The Doctor is an ancient alien, who has lived centuries and has seen everything, and the kisses make him feel more… primal? Human? Idk, it gives me the ick.
I'm not the biggest fan of the Doctor having a human (or adjacent/esque/presenting) love interest because of how old they are, but weirdly I don't have a problem with kissing. And there was so much chemistry with Rogue that even I'm like "there are exceptions".
Do we even have any idea how old Rogue is? If they established he's baseline human at any point I missed it.
I get that it's a *bit* weird if The Doctor is chasing after 25 year old humans, but I don't think an age difference has much meaning if the people involved are 200 and 2000 years old
Stepping away from the humor a bit that's actually kind of a parasocial relationship. She fell in love with the Doctor over time because of the fantasy Amy had spun around him despite the fact that she only spent a few hours with him.
That's the 'rule' for normal humans with 80 year lifespans. Immortals(especially ones as long lived as the doctor) probably shouldn't be held to it since they'd never find anyone who fully fits the criteria.
Rogue did say "Should we be telling humans?" when the Doctor was telling Ruby about the whole "there's an alien shapeshifter who's killing people" situation which would imply that Rogue himself isn't human, but he could just mean it in "Should we be telling the regular recency era humans?" as Emily is also present for that.
For me, it depends on how it's written. I'm not a big fan of the Doctor romancing their primary audience stand-in companion. Because the way that relationship is usually written, the core dynamic is "older experience stranger" showing the "young inexperienced human" the universe, which is designed that way so that the Doctor can spout exposition to the companion in a way that feels natural and the companion becomes a kind of audience surrogate. But adding romance to that for me just gets too close to problematic stereotypes of older men seducing young naïve women (which, tbc, is still problematic if the genders are different, but in the real world that's the most standard version of the trope for obvious reasons).
If it's a secondary companion, who is also written to be more of an equal to the Doctor, then I'm willing to roll with it. Yes, relatively there would still be a massive age difference. But I'm willing to accept that Doctor Who is written as a setting where at a certain age maturity sort-of levels out, if that makes sense? Like, instead of 2000-year olds seeing-200 year olds like 20-year olds see 2-year olds, it just levels out at one point so 2000-year olds don't see a particularly huge difference between themselves and 200-year olds, at least when it comes to maturity or ability to be equal partners in a romantic relationship.
We don't actually know what a 200-year old would think in the real world, especially a 200-year old who is physically as fit as a 30-year old. So I can roll with a setting whose take is less "they'd be like gods to us" and more "they'd be just like us, just with an encyclopedia worth of memories."
For me it's less about literal calendar age (I mean, looking at it one way the Doctor is *billions* old now, would kinda take everyone off the table) and more: do they feel like a peer? So Rose, Amy, Yaz, none of that I liked, but the Rivers and Rogues of the world? I'm more on board.
Human is a *very* broad classification when it comes to time travellers in the Who universe, though. Which is why I specified baseline
Jack is nominally human, but he's definitely not from Earth. He spends a good chunk of the 20th century there though, and presumably would be familiar with D&D and Kylie Minogue
I don't think he's entirely human, I think he's either distantly human (like from the future) or a human adjacent species. He specifically refers to everyone besides the Doctor as "humans" as if he isn't one and besides the D&D and music, he seems to not have much of an idea of other parts of human culture in the same vein (for example, it's weird to think that a human guy that has heard of and avidly played D&D has never heard of cosplay).
I think with Rogue 2 things make it better
1. There is no power dynamic where one feels more in control than the other, eg rose and 9/10, where the doctor is very clearly more in control
2. It's the doctors choice, he gains no tactical benefit from flirting with Rogue it's because he's genuinely charmed, unlike river who he was required by the laws of time to get with
Rose eventually got to being a capable person through her experience of traveling with the Doctor, but you could easily frame it as her being groomed to be a very capable person, which is fine if you're training someone to use a forklift. It's not fine if you're seducing them so you can ride them like a forklift.
I think there’s being a thousands of years old, and there’s being a relatively young incarnation of technically the same person. I feel like that is so, so *other* that our rather limited rules which we made up to deal with very human issues don’t really apply. Looked at this way 15 is less than a year old. I think this is stuff for people who enjoy finding things to have problems with.
I get that but I also see each regeneration as the birth of a new person (my headcanon). So this doctor isn't that old. Since regenerating. If that makes sense.
You left out 12 and Missy and I will never forgive you for this transgression. Really though, I don't think the Doctor should be kissing anyone, but his chemistry with Rogue was fire.
I don't remember all of these scenes but the 1 reason this one annoyed me is because it was actively while Ruby was in danger and the Doctor was still in a crisis of not knowing what to really do...
It wasn't that bad imo, honestly I was more annoyed when they were in the Tardis messing around while they knew a murderer was running around.
Also a lot of these kissing scenes were played for some length of comedy, or the Doctor wasn't really into it - while the Rogue one was different and moreso a kiss of *love* than the rest (even though they met like 20 minutes ago...)
I found the previous scenes of the Doctor being flirty or kissy with companions to be pretty gross actually. If you are a bored person you can look through my comments in the Sub. I'm sure I've mentioned it before. More so with 11 and 12 for obvious reasons. Like, my dude she's with Rory. And my older dude, Missy is more age appropriate. /jk
I don't like the Doctor getting kissy face at all. It's like watching your uncle drunkenly make out with someone at the holiday party. But this isn't Buffy!
At least in that show there was sexual tension built up for a whole season before the inevitable face smash. This was just a plot device.
The reason I like this relationship is because of the plot device. Initially, I was repelled. As you said, too fast and lesser species (I'm sure the 9th Doctor mentioned that). I don't need relationships and sexual tension added to Doctor Who, it detracts from the sci-fi.
However, this relationship has a purpose, which was to make the Doctor feel guilty for spending time with someone he fancies rather than his friend who then dies. You're then left wondering whether she's getting replaced with the new guy as the companion. However, here comes the twist! Ruby isn't dead, but the Doctors vengeance is going to banish her. Only for his new love interest to sacrifice himself to save Ruby.
As a plot device it was absolutely necessary, and it made a great story.
A lot of those kisses weren't romantic, a couple were but a lot weren't or they weren't necessarily reciprocal (which tbh does come with its own issues). I'm a little confused if you're specifically talking about the kiss or the whole dynamic/relationship, OP. The kiss was fine but their relationship was at the very least rushed, I don't think that can be debated whether you were a fan of it or not, but for me it also felt out of character for the Doctor to instantly trust the guy enough to offer him to be a companion when so far the only trait that the Doctor knows about him is that he was willing to murder someone and attempted to do it to the Doctor (and that he likes Kylie Minogue I guess lol). He seemed to be (to put it crudely) thinking with his dick lol which felt out of character
Honestly at first I think the doctor was just being flirty for fun but as he learnt about Rogue and saw that they were quite similar I think that’s when the relationship really grew
This episode felt NOTHING like the doctor we’ve known for decades now and I’m surprised this sub is so swooned by it. From the second he looks at rogue, he basically gets brain fog and just flirts with him all episode. To the point where he basically disregards ruby and her safety because he’s so caught up in rogues eyes… when has the doctor EVER been romantically flustered in this way? Maybe as a one off joke or something, but this was in a very serious and intimate way that just doesn’t make sense. The doctor, even in his most romantic/sensual relationships is still pretty standoff-ish and almost asexual seeming. The fact that all this happened in 1 episode is just whiplash and makes it feel like we’re just watching a dude flirt for 45 min, instead of an alien timelord trying to save the day. People complained about Davids feeling too human, but I feel like this doctor is the most human by far. He is streaming tears every episode, too empathic in situations where he should disregard people’s feelings and just do what is RIGHT regardless of how it might be perceived, and lastly, thinking about getting some action with someone he just met, rather then the safety of his best friend and the planet overall…
I agree. When he first cried, I thought it was good acting and it was touching. But now it just feels like they're abusing his ability to cry at will. A bunch of crying scenes just undermines the emotion. If he cries for everything, then it doesn't really make an impact. And yes, the romantic aspect of things needs to be different than the way it would just be with humans. Not the exact same.
Honestly this was what got me, I don’t have issues with the Doctor having romantic relationships, but he was like a puppy in this episode following captain Jack around, like the Doctor knows there’s creatures here killing people, but he doesn’t care and continues to flirt and act playfully until he thinks Ruby is dead, that’s too little too late.
Thank you. I've adored the gay characters we've had in the show (especially love Bill) and I don't have a problem with the Doctor kissing a guy after some build up (i.e. like with River Song), but being so flirty is nothing like how the Doctor acts. That just simply was not the Doctor in last night's episode, and it's ridiculous that you can't express a difference in opinion about the Doctor's character without being called a homophobe.
True, they do tend to have overarching characteristics though, a 'Doctor-y' vibe I guess, and letting arousal get in the way of thinking clearly felt very.. uncharacteristic of that, to me at least. Like the Doctor was instantly smitten and trusting just because he thought the guy looked good? I feel like it would've worked better if he was more wary at first and didn't go straight from near murder into giving him a companion speech
15 apparently doesn't think at all, he walks right into a triangle trap, then forgets to go tell Ruby when he learns there's shapeshifters killing people, then stands there while Rogue rounds up all the aliens and lets Ruby get trapped. He kinda sucks at, you know, being the Doctor.
I fully agree. I don't think the doctor should be a sexual person at all. Even though there was a lot of chemistry between them and Rogue, the doctor kissing anyone seems wrong, regardless of gender, which is why the ones we see are mostly one-sided and not being reciprocated by the doctor.
Yeah it's extremely strange to see the doctor pursue someone so openly without even being provoked first. Felt like I was watching captain Jack flirt with himself
At least they did seems to have retired the ''here's a wacky situation where the doctor has to kiss an extremely attractive 20-30 years old'' trope.
That picture montage has some of the absolute lowest point in the show history.
I mean, the Doctor isn't technically married to River anymore since she is dead. That's why the 24 years on Daryllium were so important, because it's the first and only time where they could truly spend time together as a married couple, since at all other periods where they met, only one of them knew they were married. So considering the Doctor is a widower and has been for three regenerations at this point, it's honestly fair to have the Doctor have at least some kind of romance, even if only fleeting.
Eh, she'll get over it. I think she's kinda resigned herself to the fact that unless she can magically get a body, their relationship is strictly professional and she is mainly his companion/pilot.
Most of these bothered me, especially Jenny and Tasha Lem which were non-consensual. Don't really like the Doctor engaging in romance, though most of these were unromantic/jokes.
Rogue storyline bothered me because it had the Doctor seeking out a fling based on physical attrction, which felt out of character to me. If the Doctor had been more passive initally and if they had taken time to properly develop their relationship before romance I would have liked it more.
My only issue is that the episode played out like it was written by someone from A03.
Within about an hour and a half, the Doctor fell deeply in love and was willing to run off with his man. Chemistry, intrigue, and mystery do not mean anything if the story is pathetic.
About a week ago, my mom was commenting on a Medieval romance novel she was reading. She remarked how she always hated how the two people met, confess their love, and married in a week. This is a 300-plus page book.
This episode condensed that whole plot to about 30 minutes in real time. The amount of time spent on the Doctor going googly eyes should have been spent on the monsters of the week. If they wanted to build this relationship it should have been a two-parter.
I don't care if the Doctor has a hundred love interests, just stop sacrificing the story.
If you put aside the romantic bits, the Doctor finding a person they're utterly fascinated with, and wanting to run away with them on adventures is pretty much... Spot on.
But we very rarely see them find someone who's truly on the level of the Doctor. It's usually the opposite, the Doctor going full on "I can show you the world", Aladdin style. But the Rogue is no Jasmin, he's seen the universe, travelled around, knows his way.
However I agree, the writing of this episode was abysmal. I get that Ncuti wants to portray a more liberated Doctor, one who's not carrying the weight of all of space and time on his shoulders, so of course there will be some romance... But please could we have it in a way that doesn't scream "14yo teen's first attempt at erotica fanfiction"? It ain't that hard.
Was never a fan of any of it tbh, but less so if the Doctor has known someone for 5 minutes, who also seems to be a killer. Bounty is bounty, an entirely amoral job. In this case, incineration without any attempt at justice. He's even called Rogue!
Charismatic psychopath is not a good look for something like this. I know the aliens were actually bad, but still.
The thing that bothered me about it was that the Doctor hasnt ever really been a "love at first sight" character, especially not for the reasons he likes Rogue for, but loads of the episode reloves around him being instantly, strongly infatuated with Rogue initially based off nothing but his looks.
Someone correct me if he's ever done similar with another character, but it wasn't that way with any of the women used in your example pic, so it felt odd for the character.
But hey, maybe one of this doctors personality traits is that he really wants to bang?
My only problem is that it felt rushed. I don't mind flirting or kissing, but I'm not buying the weight behind those emotions, especially at the end. Fifteen has the same problem with Ruby, imo. My biggest gripe about this entire season has been that I feel like we're dropped in the middle of stories, and 15 & Ruby and 15/Rogue both suffer from not having enough build-up to make their relationships feel organic. We're told they're best friends or have these big romantic feelings for each other, but we don't get to see it develop, it's just there from the start.
That said, I also really disliked a lot of the kisses in DW, especially Reinette, Amy, Lady Christina, Clara, Idris, and River, so... LOL.
You're preaching to the choir here. Most people in the episode discussion thread who criticized this plotline also said they're generally against the Doctor engaging in romance. I'm also not a fan (except for his relationship River), I know RTD loves his soap opera bits in DW, but I do not.
My only gripe would be that I honestly didn't feel there was any chemistry, Ncuti's portrayal just felt surface level, but I've been getting that all season so maybe it's the scheduling thing.
Doctor #4 was actually married to his companion in real life and we never got a whiff of hanky panky. This is my gold standard in my expectations of the Doctor shagging people
For me it’s that basically none of those were reciprocated by the doctor, or the ones that the doctor initiated were not because of physical attraction it was part of some
The weird part was that it was two sided physical attraction, that seems almost beneath the doctor for a human
I'll start with fact that I LOVE Rogue. I am gay, I love gay things, I love kissing men... ehm :D
However, I'll be devil advocate here. Fact is that The Doctor really rarely kissed somebody by himself, and often when he did, it was played for laugh or had another reason. Yes, even in this episode it was Rogue who iniciated the kiss, but the passion... The Doctor never showed so much passion in kissing on screen.
Rogue shifted the show to something different, and I personally love it that we finally have The Doctor who is able of open love and lust without simply implications. However, many people will dislike this shift.
I personally loved Doctor and Rose, Doctor and River, so I will now love Doctor and Rogue and I am glad we finally had amazing kiss in the show.
I hate it when gay people are just written as being unnecessarily horny. I can't recall the last time the Doctor has ever looked at someone and just said "Oh wow they look hot". He's a multi-thousand year old alien in the middle of a crisis where people's lives are in danger, why is he gushing over Ricky September?
This did bother me, why are you inventing enemies voices?
I hate it when the doctor gets romantically involved with anything, I don't want that at all, it's why Rose is my least favourite companion out of the new series and I hate that they went that route with Martha too.
I kinda remember way back in the day the rose and doctor kiss was controversial people HATED it at the time.
The only ship that seems accepted is donnor and doctor
My complaint here was that (for me) there was little if any chemistry between the characters. Also, the whole thing just played as “Doctor is horny & coming in hot”.
Thoughts:
1) most of those he is reluctant.
2) some of them, are played for laughs, and prove that he isn’t into them. (Lady Christina?)
3) my only issue with the Ncuti one is that it didn’t feel earned. I had the same problem with Loki season 1. It doesn’t feel like the Doctor and Rogue have feeling for each other, beyond lust. I just wish that they actually built their relationship up to this point, over the course of two or more episodes.
Nothing wrong with Rogue being a guy. Or male-presenting. I’m not assuming.
Usually the doctor doesn’t initiate kisses and certainly not to people he just met. It seems out of character.
It’s not about the gayness, it’s the rushedness of it.
I think you know you're being disingenuous with several of these. You're counting the Doctor/Martha one, which he was *very* clear meant nothing and treated her like shit the rest of the time? Many other kisses here were forced on him, which many people *should* have a problem with.
I actually don't care if the Doctor kisses men in every episode for the next ten years. Go for it. But if you're trying to make a point, this isn't the way to go about it.
Kissing and romance are different and the Doctor having a romantic kiss with a stranger felt weird, regardless of sex. I think the issue is that they compromised the story to have this kiss, and it felt like they cared more about making a political statement than the story. If it was a man and a woman, I would just think the writer lost their mind. I don't want either, I just want writing that makes sense. This episode reminded me too much of Chibnall. Which sucks because we had Jack and his stories never suffered from this. But when it's the Doctor, we've gotta put the square peg in the round hole.
I mean it meant something to Martha, plus the Doctor does flirt with her plenty (even if it's just for the purpose of attempting go heal from losing Rose)
A better example to your point would be Jackie Tyler's kiss hello which was just a greeting/aim to annoy him.
If Capaldi's Doctor had kissed Clara there would have been a collective meltdown about the age gap of the actors. But a 2,000 year old timelord kissing a 40 year old human, no problem?
I wasn't OK with most of these, because I have an arbitrary feeling/vibes based list of who I allow to kiss the Doctor. However, Rogue earned his way on the list.
For those who would attempt to argue with my personal list: don't bother. I admit that it is based on nothing more than my personal preferences and the fact that I like a little romance, but not too much in my entertainment.
All of that bothers me. First slide and second. Always has. Except for the Donna one. No idea why. Maybe cause it was clearly being played for laughs and they were purely platonic? Or maybe Tennant and Tate just make such a brilliant team that it didn't bother me. Doctor and Donna era was my favourite. Idk.
Tldr: Never really liked the doctor kissing/being romantically involved with a human.
In most of those cases, it was the other party instigating things, and when it's not, despite being a kiss, you don't feel like it is anything more than (unless you're telling me the Doctor wanted to bone Rory, because every time 11 kissed someone, it felt like the equivalent of that, whatever that was)
Here, 15 was very overtly horny, and that felt weird to me. His primary objective for most of the episode was to bone Rogue. I don't think that's ever been his primary objective even when he does have romantic feelings for someone. I still enjoyed the episode but this was an element I didn't like and wish they either toned it down or had Rogue be the one coming onto the doctor.
Some incarnations of the Doctor are more romantically/sexually charged than others. That's well established now.
I'm not a fan of those incarnations myself (Im not a big Tennant fan for that reason), as I personally like Doctors to a more platonic & (dare I say) almost asexual.. but nothing I see in the current Doctor outrages me.
Anyway, the deck gets shuffled with every regeneration so we'll probably have a totally different take again in a few years.
I just didn’t like the episode, it’s the best the writings been for years but not nearly close to what we’ve had
It also seemed like the doctor wanted a fling. Which is so out of character for him. In my opinion. I mean he couldn’t even say he loved the greatest companion hes arguably ever had, yet goes to try sneaky link with a jack ripoff.
Just doesn’t sit well.
The thing that seemed off in Rogue is how fast it happened.
How do those other kisses rate in time from first meeting to kiss + invitation to travel the universe?
Lady Christine D'Souza takes pretty much the same amount of time for the kiss.
The Martha kiss happened within minutes of the Doctor meeting her.
The Madame de Pompador kiss, for the Doctor, was only at most 10 minutes after he met her.
The River Kiss shown here happened, River's perspective, during her first adventure with The Doctor.
I have never been a fan of The Doctor having romantic entanglements with their companions, so I appreciate when the show introduces romantic interests for them that aren't saddled with a big age or power imbalance. Captain Jack, River, Missy, and Rogue are all appropriate IMO. In the Classic Era, Lady Romana (a fellow Time Lord) also would have been fine if they'd gone in that direction, despite her being a companion. But Rose? Hell, no. She was just a kid, and The Doctor should have known better.
I really enjoyed the Rogue story, even if The Doctor did escalate things implausibly and suspiciously quickly. If the show is going to have romance, I think it's better for The Doctor and companions to have interests separate from each other, as a general rule.
And yes, the usual suspects are going to have a field day with this one.
Thats the secret...
I hate ALL romantic relationships involving the Doctor!
For real though I don't think the new series has ever nailed chemistry enough with the writing for me to enjoy 10 and Rose or 11 and River. Now 15 has fallen for generic bounty hunter #350 with zero personality?! Just felt a bit flat and forced to me.
The chemistry between them was pure, unadulterated PERFECTION if you ask me!
I LIVE for the moments when the Doctor has a once in a lifetime romantic connection that just WORKS!
This episode reminded me of how I felt after Ten and Reinette - totally wrecked but whole for the first all at the same time.
The problem is how rushed it was and how it felt like there was the main story going on and then the Doctor’s story about trying to hook up. Then he gets all sad when he thinks Ruby died, but was off trying to flirt instead of caring about where she was for the majority of the episode. Basically it was poorly paced and felt disconnected from the rest of the episode.
I'm confused; why are we no longer counting Jack kissing Nine? Did I miss something? Was that a cut scene?
Or 11 kissing Rory.
How did I forget that one? Dinosaurs on a Spaceship.
Forgettable episode tbh
Come on, it's a fun episode. We meet Rory's dad, we get 2 one-off companions, and lots of big dinosaurs!
And Mitchell&Webb voiced the robots!
Or Jack kissing Graham. I know he's not the doctor but.
He thought he was
Does anyone count Rory, for anything?
The Tardis thinks he's the pretty one.
I think those were omitted because they were jokes and not romantic at all
No, it's still on the iPlayer versions.
Watch that episode recently on HBO Max, still there
Yep, still there. I watched the bad wolf eps earlier this week (I’m not entirely sure why, but Dot and Bubble made me want to revisit the game station).
You see, Woke things only happen in the present, where I can believe they are being brought about by a conspiracy. If the same things were happening before then, then it's fine, because it wasn't "forced". Same reason women are allowed to be the lead in Alien, but not Star Wars, or Marvel movies, or Doctor Who.
In fairness, though, Captain Jack was a loveable queer tramp we got time to get to know and like. Rogue just showed up like Jack 2.0 and we're supposed to immediately feel the same way about him? Rushed romance feels forced no matter the characters.
He's not Jack 2.0 anymore than River Song is. Queer, sci-fi, trigger happy, end of similarities. What's important is the relationships with the doctor and the companion are totally different, rogue barely speaks to Ruby, he flirts with the doctor, he's shy about it, he's a brooder. The romance isn't rushed, it's weird he proposed out of the blue, but he was acting (and it took less time to marry Marylin XD), the kiss was a goodbye before leaving for a barren dimension. You're not supposed to feel the same way at all, like him, dislike him, be indifferent about him, it's fine
Charismatic, traveling alone, charming, handsome, time traveling (music released after episode setting), ship of questionable ownership, questionable work (who's the new boss?), work history in law (time agent / bounty hunter), cloaked ship, music on board, they even sound similar. I think they're more similar than River Song. That said, great episode.
Well the dynamic was different. It’s not the kiss that shocks people, it’s the romantic/sensual intent behind it. We can’t argue that anything like this has happened before because 14 himself said it was a new attraction towards anyone male-presenting in Wild Blue Yonder (well, not explicitly but it was pretty clear that’s what he was referring to). Yes it’s ridiculous for people to be upset with this if they weren’t upset with past Doctor romances, but to argue this isn’t anything new is ignoring something that *is* new and important representation.
I read his reaction to Newton as him once again being surprised he was admitting such things out loud. Like when he told someone he loved Donna. It wasn't new. What was new was the emotional ability to say it. Donna even starts to say she always thought something about it, but was cut off by the TARDIS leaving. Which means it will be new to act on but the attraction to the same sex is not a new thing, and I think we saw in Ncuti's choices in a few moments that he is playing the not used to acting on this thing.
Exactly. What makes this “new” is that this is the first time the Doctor gets a serious romance storyline with a man and I love it.
You mean apart from the Master?
These people don't count Jack kissing 9 since those two were friends, while 15 and Rogue were lovers
I mean, Jack clearly felt something for the Doctor; in the Sound of Drums, the Doctor explains to Martha the concept of perception filters using the metaphor of fancying someone when they barely know you exist, after which Jack tells Martha "You too, huh?"
Jack definitely fancied 9 Also Rogue not Rouge
Everytime someone calls Rogue Rouge, I will just say "He's not Rouge The Bat you know, he's Rogue"
Yeah - I think this is Jack erasure! This episode with Rogue was a great one episode romance for the Doctor and really my favorite by a country mile. But I thought Jack was there with the kiss before Torchwood!
If you don't think the Ninth Doctor, Jack, and Rose were a throuple, then I think we were watching different shows, lol.
Honestly....I could see that.
Don't tease me! *Fans rapidly* 🕯
The majority of those images are friends, not lovers.
10 basically kissed everyone, or everyone kiseed him
but did he kiss himself 🤨
Given how many versions of him there are… the fact that he never did kiss himself is actually quite surprising
There's a 3 Doctor story in there somewhere.
three doctors one phone booth
Oh, youuuu.
Didn’t the TARDIS also kiss the Doctor, and nibble his ear?? *Biting is excellent, it is like kissing only there is a winner,* followed by him naming Tardis “sexy.”
They knew each other for like an hour. They didn’t have time to become lovers.
Suitors then? That doesn’t change the point that the dynamic between Jack and 9 is different than 15 and Rogue. It *is* a first in that sense.
I mean, Rogue DID propose, after all... suitors sounds about right... and when Rogue was talking about losing someone, my mind automatically went to Jack anyway, thinking maybe that's who Rogue lost at some point in time, too...
Dude just met the guy and now they're lovers?
Captain Jack can charm the pants off anyone.
That seemed less a sex attraction thing, and more a farewell thing. The other love. Hell, go bsck further, watch the last episode of the Green Death and tell me Three didnt have a thing for Jo?
He did, and Pertwees reasoning for leaving the show was partly the Delgados death as well as Jos actress leaving. The chemistry was so good with Three and Jo!
Because the point OP is trying to make is "The doctor has been straight for long enough, now let him be gay." If they included him kissing Jack or Rory then it diminishes OP's "mike drop" moment. Although, IIRC Jack's and Rory's kisses were brief and not at all romantic.
I’m generally fine with the doctor being with anyone as long as they have good chemistry, which The Rogue definitely did. I honestly kinda hated how many random love interests 10 had that were just random flings. Majority of them were pretty boring characters.
This episode put me right back to The Girl in the Fireplace. Ten had his one-day fling and snog as well. What’s the point of a party if you don’t kiss at least one person?
Didn't 9 make a quip about how something that happens when you travel is you "wind up kissing total strangers. Or is that just me?" Heck the 1st Doctor got accidentally engaged once. You travel the universe for centuries, stuff's gonna happen.
He did indeed. In The Long Game, with the Jagrefes on Satellite Five.
Misread this comment and thought for a second that you were saying the doctor kissed the Jagrefes
We call him Max.
Reminds me of Lister in Red Dwarf who married the GELF. Not gonna happen even if I drank all the fermented booze in the galaxy.
About as unpopular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs competition
The Doctor has been accidentally married multiple times by now
That was weird for me though. 900-odd year old Time Lord appears in a child's fireplace, then from his pov he dips and comes back to snog her older self. It feels grubby
Reinette was the original “girl who waited,” sorry Amy Pond.
Damn true
Do not watch the Time Traveler's Wife
Didn't Reinette initiate in that instance
Yes, but he was very braggy lol. She's much younger than he is and more Impressionable, built up this image of him from childhood
(To be real it's Moffat's horny writing, Amy does the same thing later on, but I get your point.)
It is impossible for Jonathan Groff to not have chemistry with someone.
You'll Be Back
Soon you will see
You'll remember you belong to me...
HOLY SHIT *THAT'S* WHERE I KNOW HIM FROM?!?!
I bet he would have chemistry with a moose!
*reindeer (He’s also Kristoff (and Sven) for anyone who doesn’t know)
At this point, I just want an episode featuring that steamy relationship with Harry Houdini.
The only part I dislike about the 50th was all of Ten's flirting and kissing with Elizabeth lol, it felt so forced.
Well, I mean, it was forced, wasn’t it? He accidentally seduced her and he had to play along to keep his head, no?
Especially since he knows that however it ended, she was pretty bitter about it as he ran into her at the end of The Shakespeare Code and she tried to have him beheaded and shot with arrows. I'd play along too.
I'd say he purposely seduced her (or the Zygon he thought she was)... but accidentally got engaged to the real her.
There was a lot of anti-Zygon attitude that I found off putting as well. Elizabeth was nice though.
I'd really love to see an episode where, like, all the humans have something happen to them, but a subset of the population are unaffected, and The Doctor is confused about this the whole episode until it's revealed the unaffected portion were Zygons.
To be fair, I didn't like any of his "relationships". That said I've not watched the new episode so not sure whats up. I started watching Doctor Who with John Pertwee and Tom Baker. I like him being a father/uncle figure. It's always weird when a companion starts getting fresh with him for me. I don't need that kinda thing to make things interesting or dramatic so would be fine it it didnt happen at all.
As I was watching this I was imagining Tom Baker and Patrick Troughton coming up to someone and initiating aggressive flirting right off the back. So uncomfortable.
Yes I prefer the doctor to be asexual. Also the doctor is an alien so it's a little weird.
From what I've seen so far, everyone either used to like the kissing and still likes it, or never liked it and still doesn't. I haven't seen anyone say they used to like it and now don't
I would say I've come around against it. I used to like it, or rather, I didn't have a problem with it. As time has gone on, I have recognized it as more and more of a problem (most notably Ten's kissing with Rose and Martha, as well as one-off characters like Lady Katherine). That said, there are kisses in Early New Who that I think still have goox narrative reason for being in the show. Lady de Pompadour I think fits really well. Jackie kissing 10 as a bit is still entertaining (if only because Tenant performs really well in that scene) and Donna kissing 10 in The Unicorn and the Wasp is still pretty fun. But romantic intent between two vastly differently matured characters is a problem with Who. That said, I did not have a problem with Rogue.
I’m in the camp of those who never liked it. The Doctor is an ancient alien, who has lived centuries and has seen everything, and the kisses make him feel more… primal? Human? Idk, it gives me the ick.
I'm not the biggest fan of the Doctor having a human (or adjacent/esque/presenting) love interest because of how old they are, but weirdly I don't have a problem with kissing. And there was so much chemistry with Rogue that even I'm like "there are exceptions".
Do we even have any idea how old Rogue is? If they established he's baseline human at any point I missed it. I get that it's a *bit* weird if The Doctor is chasing after 25 year old humans, but I don't think an age difference has much meaning if the people involved are 200 and 2000 years old
Half your age plus 7. He can only go after people who are between 1007 and 3086 years old /s
River Song was nearly 300 when she died. It's practically cradle robbing!
I give him a pass because: Alex Kingston. Who wouldn’t? Had a crush on her since her ER days.
I'm gay and honestly....yeah. Whatever *it* is, she has it.
Oh I hear ya.
Who says Rogue isn't River Song? Regeneration shenanigans.
She gave up all her regens. 😭
Not to mention the grooming with knowing her parents and her before she was even born!
Stepping away from the humor a bit that's actually kind of a parasocial relationship. She fell in love with the Doctor over time because of the fantasy Amy had spun around him despite the fact that she only spent a few hours with him.
Well, I mean, he did see her in the cradle.
It was even his cradle.
Gosh, I just made this calculation based on my age and I could *not* imagine myself dating someone that young
Romana was too young for 4 (she wasn't 150 and he was over 300) -- and in the end it did not work out.
Four was about 750 at the time
That's the 'rule' for normal humans with 80 year lifespans. Immortals(especially ones as long lived as the doctor) probably shouldn't be held to it since they'd never find anyone who fully fits the criteria.
Rogue did say "Should we be telling humans?" when the Doctor was telling Ruby about the whole "there's an alien shapeshifter who's killing people" situation which would imply that Rogue himself isn't human, but he could just mean it in "Should we be telling the regular recency era humans?" as Emily is also present for that.
For me, it depends on how it's written. I'm not a big fan of the Doctor romancing their primary audience stand-in companion. Because the way that relationship is usually written, the core dynamic is "older experience stranger" showing the "young inexperienced human" the universe, which is designed that way so that the Doctor can spout exposition to the companion in a way that feels natural and the companion becomes a kind of audience surrogate. But adding romance to that for me just gets too close to problematic stereotypes of older men seducing young naïve women (which, tbc, is still problematic if the genders are different, but in the real world that's the most standard version of the trope for obvious reasons). If it's a secondary companion, who is also written to be more of an equal to the Doctor, then I'm willing to roll with it. Yes, relatively there would still be a massive age difference. But I'm willing to accept that Doctor Who is written as a setting where at a certain age maturity sort-of levels out, if that makes sense? Like, instead of 2000-year olds seeing-200 year olds like 20-year olds see 2-year olds, it just levels out at one point so 2000-year olds don't see a particularly huge difference between themselves and 200-year olds, at least when it comes to maturity or ability to be equal partners in a romantic relationship. We don't actually know what a 200-year old would think in the real world, especially a 200-year old who is physically as fit as a 30-year old. So I can roll with a setting whose take is less "they'd be like gods to us" and more "they'd be just like us, just with an encyclopedia worth of memories."
For me it's less about literal calendar age (I mean, looking at it one way the Doctor is *billions* old now, would kinda take everyone off the table) and more: do they feel like a peer? So Rose, Amy, Yaz, none of that I liked, but the Rivers and Rogues of the world? I'm more on board.
I mean he plays D&D and his ship has human music so probably human 🤷🏻♂️
Human is a *very* broad classification when it comes to time travellers in the Who universe, though. Which is why I specified baseline Jack is nominally human, but he's definitely not from Earth. He spends a good chunk of the 20th century there though, and presumably would be familiar with D&D and Kylie Minogue
True, can’t argue with that
I don't think he's entirely human, I think he's either distantly human (like from the future) or a human adjacent species. He specifically refers to everyone besides the Doctor as "humans" as if he isn't one and besides the D&D and music, he seems to not have much of an idea of other parts of human culture in the same vein (for example, it's weird to think that a human guy that has heard of and avidly played D&D has never heard of cosplay).
Do I have to be the nerd to point out that you can't play D&D alone, you literally need a DM to make up the adventure as you go on it?
Maybe he has an AI DM
I think with Rogue 2 things make it better 1. There is no power dynamic where one feels more in control than the other, eg rose and 9/10, where the doctor is very clearly more in control 2. It's the doctors choice, he gains no tactical benefit from flirting with Rogue it's because he's genuinely charmed, unlike river who he was required by the laws of time to get with
Both River and Rogue have worked for me (Rose did not). The difference being that they were extremely technically capable persons without the Doctor.
Indeed. It's not about age, it's about whether they can interact with the Doctor as an equal. River and Rogue could.
Rose eventually got to being a capable person through her experience of traveling with the Doctor, but you could easily frame it as her being groomed to be a very capable person, which is fine if you're training someone to use a forklift. It's not fine if you're seducing them so you can ride them like a forklift.
babe the doctor's over 4 billion years old, i doubt he'd find anyone within an "acceptable" age gap
Besides the Master?
I think there’s being a thousands of years old, and there’s being a relatively young incarnation of technically the same person. I feel like that is so, so *other* that our rather limited rules which we made up to deal with very human issues don’t really apply. Looked at this way 15 is less than a year old. I think this is stuff for people who enjoy finding things to have problems with.
I get that but I also see each regeneration as the birth of a new person (my headcanon). So this doctor isn't that old. Since regenerating. If that makes sense.
I love that you have an issue with an age gap 😂
You left out 12 and Missy and I will never forgive you for this transgression. Really though, I don't think the Doctor should be kissing anyone, but his chemistry with Rogue was fire.
That's sexual assault, although OP included other sexual assaults, they shouldn't have.
There's a non-assault one where 12 gives Missy a kiss after she gave him an army of Cybermen
did you miss when 12 called her his boy-crush?
I don't remember all of these scenes but the 1 reason this one annoyed me is because it was actively while Ruby was in danger and the Doctor was still in a crisis of not knowing what to really do... It wasn't that bad imo, honestly I was more annoyed when they were in the Tardis messing around while they knew a murderer was running around. Also a lot of these kissing scenes were played for some length of comedy, or the Doctor wasn't really into it - while the Rogue one was different and moreso a kiss of *love* than the rest (even though they met like 20 minutes ago...)
I found the previous scenes of the Doctor being flirty or kissy with companions to be pretty gross actually. If you are a bored person you can look through my comments in the Sub. I'm sure I've mentioned it before. More so with 11 and 12 for obvious reasons. Like, my dude she's with Rory. And my older dude, Missy is more age appropriate. /jk I don't like the Doctor getting kissy face at all. It's like watching your uncle drunkenly make out with someone at the holiday party. But this isn't Buffy! At least in that show there was sexual tension built up for a whole season before the inevitable face smash. This was just a plot device.
'inevitable face smash' thats just excellent, im saving that
The reason I like this relationship is because of the plot device. Initially, I was repelled. As you said, too fast and lesser species (I'm sure the 9th Doctor mentioned that). I don't need relationships and sexual tension added to Doctor Who, it detracts from the sci-fi. However, this relationship has a purpose, which was to make the Doctor feel guilty for spending time with someone he fancies rather than his friend who then dies. You're then left wondering whether she's getting replaced with the new guy as the companion. However, here comes the twist! Ruby isn't dead, but the Doctors vengeance is going to banish her. Only for his new love interest to sacrifice himself to save Ruby. As a plot device it was absolutely necessary, and it made a great story.
A lot of those kisses weren't romantic, a couple were but a lot weren't or they weren't necessarily reciprocal (which tbh does come with its own issues). I'm a little confused if you're specifically talking about the kiss or the whole dynamic/relationship, OP. The kiss was fine but their relationship was at the very least rushed, I don't think that can be debated whether you were a fan of it or not, but for me it also felt out of character for the Doctor to instantly trust the guy enough to offer him to be a companion when so far the only trait that the Doctor knows about him is that he was willing to murder someone and attempted to do it to the Doctor (and that he likes Kylie Minogue I guess lol). He seemed to be (to put it crudely) thinking with his dick lol which felt out of character
Honestly at first I think the doctor was just being flirty for fun but as he learnt about Rogue and saw that they were quite similar I think that’s when the relationship really grew
This episode felt NOTHING like the doctor we’ve known for decades now and I’m surprised this sub is so swooned by it. From the second he looks at rogue, he basically gets brain fog and just flirts with him all episode. To the point where he basically disregards ruby and her safety because he’s so caught up in rogues eyes… when has the doctor EVER been romantically flustered in this way? Maybe as a one off joke or something, but this was in a very serious and intimate way that just doesn’t make sense. The doctor, even in his most romantic/sensual relationships is still pretty standoff-ish and almost asexual seeming. The fact that all this happened in 1 episode is just whiplash and makes it feel like we’re just watching a dude flirt for 45 min, instead of an alien timelord trying to save the day. People complained about Davids feeling too human, but I feel like this doctor is the most human by far. He is streaming tears every episode, too empathic in situations where he should disregard people’s feelings and just do what is RIGHT regardless of how it might be perceived, and lastly, thinking about getting some action with someone he just met, rather then the safety of his best friend and the planet overall…
I agree. When he first cried, I thought it was good acting and it was touching. But now it just feels like they're abusing his ability to cry at will. A bunch of crying scenes just undermines the emotion. If he cries for everything, then it doesn't really make an impact. And yes, the romantic aspect of things needs to be different than the way it would just be with humans. Not the exact same.
Honestly this was what got me, I don’t have issues with the Doctor having romantic relationships, but he was like a puppy in this episode following captain Jack around, like the Doctor knows there’s creatures here killing people, but he doesn’t care and continues to flirt and act playfully until he thinks Ruby is dead, that’s too little too late.
Thank you. I've adored the gay characters we've had in the show (especially love Bill) and I don't have a problem with the Doctor kissing a guy after some build up (i.e. like with River Song), but being so flirty is nothing like how the Doctor acts. That just simply was not the Doctor in last night's episode, and it's ridiculous that you can't express a difference in opinion about the Doctor's character without being called a homophobe.
Three over, one down. Literally may be the least romantic picture I've ever seen. Matt looks like he's being tortured.
Doesn’t each regeneration have their own character? 15 thinks with his dick.
True, they do tend to have overarching characteristics though, a 'Doctor-y' vibe I guess, and letting arousal get in the way of thinking clearly felt very.. uncharacteristic of that, to me at least. Like the Doctor was instantly smitten and trusting just because he thought the guy looked good? I feel like it would've worked better if he was more wary at first and didn't go straight from near murder into giving him a companion speech
15 apparently doesn't think at all, he walks right into a triangle trap, then forgets to go tell Ruby when he learns there's shapeshifters killing people, then stands there while Rogue rounds up all the aliens and lets Ruby get trapped. He kinda sucks at, you know, being the Doctor.
Honestly, is it weird to say it all bothers me? The Doctor kissing people feels like walking in on your parents having sex.
I fully agree. I don't think the doctor should be a sexual person at all. Even though there was a lot of chemistry between them and Rogue, the doctor kissing anyone seems wrong, regardless of gender, which is why the ones we see are mostly one-sided and not being reciprocated by the doctor.
Yeah it's extremely strange to see the doctor pursue someone so openly without even being provoked first. Felt like I was watching captain Jack flirt with himself
At least they did seems to have retired the ''here's a wacky situation where the doctor has to kiss an extremely attractive 20-30 years old'' trope. That picture montage has some of the absolute lowest point in the show history.
Even worse, it's like watching your divorced parent cheating: The Doctor is married to River Song and cheating on the TARDIS with both of them T\_T
I mean, the Doctor isn't technically married to River anymore since she is dead. That's why the 24 years on Daryllium were so important, because it's the first and only time where they could truly spend time together as a married couple, since at all other periods where they met, only one of them knew they were married. So considering the Doctor is a widower and has been for three regenerations at this point, it's honestly fair to have the Doctor have at least some kind of romance, even if only fleeting.
Yeah, mostly just the meme. Still cheating on the TARDIS tho, and she'll only put up with so much
Eh, she'll get over it. I think she's kinda resigned herself to the fact that unless she can magically get a body, their relationship is strictly professional and she is mainly his companion/pilot.
Most of these bothered me, especially Jenny and Tasha Lem which were non-consensual. Don't really like the Doctor engaging in romance, though most of these were unromantic/jokes. Rogue storyline bothered me because it had the Doctor seeking out a fling based on physical attrction, which felt out of character to me. If the Doctor had been more passive initally and if they had taken time to properly develop their relationship before romance I would have liked it more.
My only issue is that the episode played out like it was written by someone from A03. Within about an hour and a half, the Doctor fell deeply in love and was willing to run off with his man. Chemistry, intrigue, and mystery do not mean anything if the story is pathetic. About a week ago, my mom was commenting on a Medieval romance novel she was reading. She remarked how she always hated how the two people met, confess their love, and married in a week. This is a 300-plus page book. This episode condensed that whole plot to about 30 minutes in real time. The amount of time spent on the Doctor going googly eyes should have been spent on the monsters of the week. If they wanted to build this relationship it should have been a two-parter. I don't care if the Doctor has a hundred love interests, just stop sacrificing the story.
We also had the tired trope of a kiss used to distract from doing something
If you put aside the romantic bits, the Doctor finding a person they're utterly fascinated with, and wanting to run away with them on adventures is pretty much... Spot on. But we very rarely see them find someone who's truly on the level of the Doctor. It's usually the opposite, the Doctor going full on "I can show you the world", Aladdin style. But the Rogue is no Jasmin, he's seen the universe, travelled around, knows his way. However I agree, the writing of this episode was abysmal. I get that Ncuti wants to portray a more liberated Doctor, one who's not carrying the weight of all of space and time on his shoulders, so of course there will be some romance... But please could we have it in a way that doesn't scream "14yo teen's first attempt at erotica fanfiction"? It ain't that hard.
Was never a fan of any of it tbh, but less so if the Doctor has known someone for 5 minutes, who also seems to be a killer. Bounty is bounty, an entirely amoral job. In this case, incineration without any attempt at justice. He's even called Rogue! Charismatic psychopath is not a good look for something like this. I know the aliens were actually bad, but still.
I mean the Doctor's kill count is probably higher than Rogues
to be fair, river was also a charismatic psychopath
What if all of that did bother me? The Doctor snogging earth girls was always dumb.
11 and Rory
That wasn't in a loving way that was in an over-the-moon relief/happy way
And improvised
Same for half the ones in the first image though lol
this is missy and 12 erasure smh.
The thing that bothered me about it was that the Doctor hasnt ever really been a "love at first sight" character, especially not for the reasons he likes Rogue for, but loads of the episode reloves around him being instantly, strongly infatuated with Rogue initially based off nothing but his looks. Someone correct me if he's ever done similar with another character, but it wasn't that way with any of the women used in your example pic, so it felt odd for the character. But hey, maybe one of this doctors personality traits is that he really wants to bang?
My only problem is that it felt rushed. I don't mind flirting or kissing, but I'm not buying the weight behind those emotions, especially at the end. Fifteen has the same problem with Ruby, imo. My biggest gripe about this entire season has been that I feel like we're dropped in the middle of stories, and 15 & Ruby and 15/Rogue both suffer from not having enough build-up to make their relationships feel organic. We're told they're best friends or have these big romantic feelings for each other, but we don't get to see it develop, it's just there from the start. That said, I also really disliked a lot of the kisses in DW, especially Reinette, Amy, Lady Christina, Clara, Idris, and River, so... LOL.
You're preaching to the choir here. Most people in the episode discussion thread who criticized this plotline also said they're generally against the Doctor engaging in romance. I'm also not a fan (except for his relationship River), I know RTD loves his soap opera bits in DW, but I do not.
What about Jack kissing the doctor
My only gripe would be that I honestly didn't feel there was any chemistry, Ncuti's portrayal just felt surface level, but I've been getting that all season so maybe it's the scheduling thing.
Doctor #4 was actually married to his companion in real life and we never got a whiff of hanky panky. This is my gold standard in my expectations of the Doctor shagging people
Because the doctor is not allowed to kiss Americans. 😉 All jokes aside , I do not think this is his last appearance .
For me it’s that basically none of those were reciprocated by the doctor, or the ones that the doctor initiated were not because of physical attraction it was part of some The weird part was that it was two sided physical attraction, that seems almost beneath the doctor for a human
To be honest, they all bothered me for the Doctor. I've learned to cope.
I'll start with fact that I LOVE Rogue. I am gay, I love gay things, I love kissing men... ehm :D However, I'll be devil advocate here. Fact is that The Doctor really rarely kissed somebody by himself, and often when he did, it was played for laugh or had another reason. Yes, even in this episode it was Rogue who iniciated the kiss, but the passion... The Doctor never showed so much passion in kissing on screen. Rogue shifted the show to something different, and I personally love it that we finally have The Doctor who is able of open love and lust without simply implications. However, many people will dislike this shift. I personally loved Doctor and Rose, Doctor and River, so I will now love Doctor and Rogue and I am glad we finally had amazing kiss in the show.
Ew. They all begin with R.
Reinette as well! What is happening?!?
Oh, The Doctor has a type! 😏😏😏
People who try to kill him?
I hate it when gay people are just written as being unnecessarily horny. I can't recall the last time the Doctor has ever looked at someone and just said "Oh wow they look hot". He's a multi-thousand year old alien in the middle of a crisis where people's lives are in danger, why is he gushing over Ricky September?
The best Doctor Who kiss is Leela and K9 at the end of Underworld
This did bother me, why are you inventing enemies voices? I hate it when the doctor gets romantically involved with anything, I don't want that at all, it's why Rose is my least favourite companion out of the new series and I hate that they went that route with Martha too.
I kinda remember way back in the day the rose and doctor kiss was controversial people HATED it at the time. The only ship that seems accepted is donnor and doctor
Doctor and Donna is an accepted ship?!?!?! They were very explicitly not a couple.
If you mean as a platonic ship then yes Doctor and Donna are probably the favorite 'ship'
Can we please not turn on the Bigot-signal?
Dont worry, they show up regardless
Anyone who disagrees will get downvoted to hell or have their comments deleted by the mods anyway, so what’s it matter?
Where's 11 kissing Rory?
My complaint here was that (for me) there was little if any chemistry between the characters. Also, the whole thing just played as “Doctor is horny & coming in hot”.
Thoughts: 1) most of those he is reluctant. 2) some of them, are played for laughs, and prove that he isn’t into them. (Lady Christina?) 3) my only issue with the Ncuti one is that it didn’t feel earned. I had the same problem with Loki season 1. It doesn’t feel like the Doctor and Rogue have feeling for each other, beyond lust. I just wish that they actually built their relationship up to this point, over the course of two or more episodes.
Nothing wrong with Rogue being a guy. Or male-presenting. I’m not assuming. Usually the doctor doesn’t initiate kisses and certainly not to people he just met. It seems out of character. It’s not about the gayness, it’s the rushedness of it.
I think you know you're being disingenuous with several of these. You're counting the Doctor/Martha one, which he was *very* clear meant nothing and treated her like shit the rest of the time? Many other kisses here were forced on him, which many people *should* have a problem with. I actually don't care if the Doctor kisses men in every episode for the next ten years. Go for it. But if you're trying to make a point, this isn't the way to go about it.
Kissing and romance are different and the Doctor having a romantic kiss with a stranger felt weird, regardless of sex. I think the issue is that they compromised the story to have this kiss, and it felt like they cared more about making a political statement than the story. If it was a man and a woman, I would just think the writer lost their mind. I don't want either, I just want writing that makes sense. This episode reminded me too much of Chibnall. Which sucks because we had Jack and his stories never suffered from this. But when it's the Doctor, we've gotta put the square peg in the round hole.
I mean it meant something to Martha, plus the Doctor does flirt with her plenty (even if it's just for the purpose of attempting go heal from losing Rose) A better example to your point would be Jackie Tyler's kiss hello which was just a greeting/aim to annoy him.
If Capaldi's Doctor had kissed Clara there would have been a collective meltdown about the age gap of the actors. But a 2,000 year old timelord kissing a 40 year old human, no problem?
I wasn't OK with most of these, because I have an arbitrary feeling/vibes based list of who I allow to kiss the Doctor. However, Rogue earned his way on the list. For those who would attempt to argue with my personal list: don't bother. I admit that it is based on nothing more than my personal preferences and the fact that I like a little romance, but not too much in my entertainment.
All of that bothers me. First slide and second. Always has. Except for the Donna one. No idea why. Maybe cause it was clearly being played for laughs and they were purely platonic? Or maybe Tennant and Tate just make such a brilliant team that it didn't bother me. Doctor and Donna era was my favourite. Idk. Tldr: Never really liked the doctor kissing/being romantically involved with a human.
In most of those cases, it was the other party instigating things, and when it's not, despite being a kiss, you don't feel like it is anything more than (unless you're telling me the Doctor wanted to bone Rory, because every time 11 kissed someone, it felt like the equivalent of that, whatever that was) Here, 15 was very overtly horny, and that felt weird to me. His primary objective for most of the episode was to bone Rogue. I don't think that's ever been his primary objective even when he does have romantic feelings for someone. I still enjoyed the episode but this was an element I didn't like and wish they either toned it down or had Rogue be the one coming onto the doctor.
Some incarnations of the Doctor are more romantically/sexually charged than others. That's well established now. I'm not a fan of those incarnations myself (Im not a big Tennant fan for that reason), as I personally like Doctors to a more platonic & (dare I say) almost asexual.. but nothing I see in the current Doctor outrages me. Anyway, the deck gets shuffled with every regeneration so we'll probably have a totally different take again in a few years.
I just didn’t like the episode, it’s the best the writings been for years but not nearly close to what we’ve had It also seemed like the doctor wanted a fling. Which is so out of character for him. In my opinion. I mean he couldn’t even say he loved the greatest companion hes arguably ever had, yet goes to try sneaky link with a jack ripoff. Just doesn’t sit well.
Th fact more than half of these are ten 😭
The thing that seemed off in Rogue is how fast it happened. How do those other kisses rate in time from first meeting to kiss + invitation to travel the universe?
Lady Christine D'Souza takes pretty much the same amount of time for the kiss. The Martha kiss happened within minutes of the Doctor meeting her. The Madame de Pompador kiss, for the Doctor, was only at most 10 minutes after he met her. The River Kiss shown here happened, River's perspective, during her first adventure with The Doctor.
I have never been a fan of The Doctor having romantic entanglements with their companions, so I appreciate when the show introduces romantic interests for them that aren't saddled with a big age or power imbalance. Captain Jack, River, Missy, and Rogue are all appropriate IMO. In the Classic Era, Lady Romana (a fellow Time Lord) also would have been fine if they'd gone in that direction, despite her being a companion. But Rose? Hell, no. She was just a kid, and The Doctor should have known better. I really enjoyed the Rogue story, even if The Doctor did escalate things implausibly and suspiciously quickly. If the show is going to have romance, I think it's better for The Doctor and companions to have interests separate from each other, as a general rule. And yes, the usual suspects are going to have a field day with this one.
I’m not a fan of any of the romance stuff tbf
Thats the secret... I hate ALL romantic relationships involving the Doctor! For real though I don't think the new series has ever nailed chemistry enough with the writing for me to enjoy 10 and Rose or 11 and River. Now 15 has fallen for generic bounty hunter #350 with zero personality?! Just felt a bit flat and forced to me.
The chemistry between them was pure, unadulterated PERFECTION if you ask me! I LIVE for the moments when the Doctor has a once in a lifetime romantic connection that just WORKS! This episode reminded me of how I felt after Ten and Reinette - totally wrecked but whole for the first all at the same time.
The problem is how rushed it was and how it felt like there was the main story going on and then the Doctor’s story about trying to hook up. Then he gets all sad when he thinks Ruby died, but was off trying to flirt instead of caring about where she was for the majority of the episode. Basically it was poorly paced and felt disconnected from the rest of the episode.