I think in general Carla and Ruby are victims of the series being so short
Maybe with 10-12 episodes we could invest in their bond but here we just can’t
This. This is why they had to do so much telling as opposed to showing with Ruby in general. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for writers, now that series just keep getting shorter and shorter.
I don't know, in the older seasons where they were 30-40 minutes, like with Christopher Eccleston (I'm sorry on the spelling) it seemed like a lot more story and relationship building happened within one episode than in the new season. Something got messed up in production.
I don't think you're wrong, but I do think it still has to do with the limited amount of time they had to work with. 13 episodes is a *lot* more than 8, really — imagine all of the scenes with Jackie and Mickey that they would have had to cut if they'd needed to tell the story in just eight installments; not to mention all of the quiet, contemplative moments between Rose and the Doctor. If they'd had to jam Captain Jack or Lady Cassandra in with only eight episodes, honestly I think they probably wouldn't have bothered.
A longer series would inevitably have given us extra time for "domestic" stuff, which I truly do think would have made the whole thing feel more intimate and congruent. I enjoyed all of the episodes in this season individually, but the overarching themes did feel kind of rushed.
Rose and 9's adventure together feels almost *leisurely* at times... Ruby and 15, though, are always in a hurry. I wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice the time we spend getting to know them individually, but I also wish we'd seen them in the same room together more often...
I don't know how I'd have balanced it, but I know it wouldn't have been easy with so many constraints.
I also think it was prudent to have Rose and the Doctor referencing *other* trips they took together; talking about things we didn't necessarily see them do. It made the connection seem deeper & gave more of an impression of intimacy. And while I wouldn't have wanted to give Ruby a jealous partner, necessarily, I do think that the tension the Doctor causes between Mickey and Rose (and Jackie too) adds a lot.
Personally I'd have balanced it out by cutting out Space Babies and replacing it entirely with other character building moments.
I also would have cut the weird musical shit from TCORR
Yes, she got a fair amount in "The Church on Ruby Road," but then we didn't see much of her, comparatively. I feel like RTD's insistence on trying to make many of the episodes about the mystery of Ruby's biological mother, which ultimately was not that mysterious, shortchanged her a bit.
That's honestly what hurts so much about all this, it feels like they spent so much time of an already short runtime to Ruby's 'real' mum, only for it to end with something feeling so unsatisfying and ordinary. Like, if they just wanted Ruby's mum to be ordinary, couldn't we have instead used that runtime to flesh out Carla? yanno, the actual mum who raised Ruby..
> I feel like RTD's insistence on trying to make many of the episodes about the mystery of Ruby's biological mother
Like, maybe Space Babies in a way? Otherwise, it was small scenes in larger episodes. Well, 73 yards maybe but that was always going to be Doctor-lite anyway.
I think Carla is having complicated feelings about having to share her baby. Louise is new and shiny and never came looking for Ruby. She’s probably worried about it all but trying to just be happy for Ruby.
I just wish they would have referred to her as “bio mum” not “real mom”. Carla IS a real mom
To connect what you and OP are saying a bit, the "real mom" part made me feel a bit uncomfortable as a black woman. Even though the show demonstrates that Ruby loves Carla, the fact of the matter is that it was a black woman who raised her for 20 years and then, in that moment, it felt like she and the work and time she put into that relationship were somewhat disposable (or at least devalued) when a white woman came along. I think the complexity of the situation could have been more sensitively written, but there's a common trope (in media and in real life) where black women are tasked with doing the labor of lifting others--especially white people--up, getting them to where they're supposed to be, and helping them find their happy ending, and then being dismissed once their job is done. For now, it looks like they are all happy together, but the implication that the woman who never went looking for Ruby was her "real mom" (rather than using the term bio mom) and not the black woman who raised her just felt off. My perspective also comes from being someone who considers her step-dad her "real dad" because he was the one who raised me.
We could argue that this inconsistency is a reflection of Ruby's internal conflict and her real-time attempts to mentally reconcile these two women's roles in her life. But we're not shown enough of it to really say--it all happened so quick at the end!
I thought that made sense. It makes sense when referring to her bio mum that she didn’t know yet as “real mum”(even though I understand the arguments that it’s a bit problematic) but once she knows her name she’s just Louise.
I think the "real mum" bit is more than a bit problematic. Also she learns her name at UNIT Tower before she meets her.
If she sticks with calling her Louise in future appearances, I'll get over it.
I think you are reading too much into it. I really don't think it has anything to do with race at all. She has not forgotten Carla nor is she replacing her with Louise. But she has been searching for her birth mother since she was old enough to want to, which Carla is fully aware of. I think Ruby is adding to her already massive family, because Ruby isn't the only child Carla has fostered. Let's not forget that you put yourself forward to be a foster carer, no one makes you do it. So how can this be a case of stereotyping a black woman doing all the leg work for white people? All those children are still part of the family. No one has been forgotten or left behind. Their pictures are all on the fridge. Also in defence of Louise, the white woman who is apparently taking over the situation in your opinion, she literally says herself she didn't know if Ruby hated her, so didn't look for her.
I have trouble with that especially because mum guilt is bad enough without adding in to the ring that she's white and coming to take Ruby away or something. She didn't abandon Ruby gladly or easily. You want to guilt trip her for being white as well? She wouldn't know that Ruby's foster family would be black.
I find it sad you think Carla has been devalued by Ruby finding Louise. Tbh I really don't see how you can judge it fully, since we leave them all right when they've all just come together. It's all very raw and new for all of them. It will take time for them to fall into a new family pattern. Carla needs to let Ruby be happy in the moment and get to know her birth mother as is her wish. Ruby will just have an even bigger family at the end of it, which includes Carla and Cherry *and* Louise. The only person Ruby is leaving behind for the moment is the Doctor because he would take her away from all of those things she's been looking for.
I can't imagine anyone thinks they know the only way to tell this story; there is so much personal and specific. "the work and time Carla put into the relationship" is the reason Ruby wasn't bitter to her (bio)mom. Why put the moms in competition? Ruby is an adult and will always be adding more loved ones in her life, spouse, children, BFF's; that doesn't "devalue" those she loved before and still loves. Ruby IS Carla's daughter, she's not "white people" she's saving; t*hat's Lindy Pepper-Bean.*
The argument I was making was that the words "real mum" implicitly put the mothers in competition and makes one relationship feel less significant than the other. I agree that they shouldn't be in competition, which is my whole criticism of the script.
I approach this, again, as a daughter to a close step-parent. If he ever thought to call me his step-kid and then my brother his "real" kid, I'd naturally feel as if somehow, my relationship with my parent was less legitimate than my brother's. Fortunately, that is not the situation I'm in, but the language here does matter.
right, but in the real world people don't always use perfect language, the script isn't there to always use the right words or phrases, it's perfectly reasonable that she might use this term, and besides, Ruby is still often referring to her biological mother as simply "Louise" at the end of the episode, which shows the complexities within this kind of dynamic.
You need to stop.
Your wrong.
In the real world we say ‘bio-mom’ no one adopted says real mom. Because our real mom is the one who raised us.
It’s a huge thing with adopted kids. The difference is important.
Why the hell are you bringing race into it?
This is the problem with people terminally online.
Race has NOTHING to do with it. Stop looking for racism everywhere.
Also we get one seen of them together. I’m sorry but if the person who raised me can’t be happy that I found my biological mom then they are a shitty person.
Not once does it show ruby dismissing her or saying they don’t love her.
She knows that Ruby had been looking for her mom for her whole life, it’s fine that she wants to take a small step back and let ruby have this.
The body and world I live in don't really give me the choice not to consider race, and it is not an effect of being "terminally online." It is an effect of being "perpetually in a black body whose experiences are often informed by other people's prejudices."
If this is not an experience you can relate to and thus feel the need to aggressively rail against the possibility of, then congrats to you.
My comment clearly states that the show demonstrates Ruby's love for Carla. The *script*, in the scene in question, chooses language that inevitably dismisses Carla and her role in Ruby's life and actively undermines the relationship the show has otherwise tried to signal these two have, and it does it in a way that might make the audience feel as if Ruby, herself, is dismissing Carla now that she has found the birth mother she has been searching for. That dismissal feels worse in the context of Carla being a black woman raising a young white woman, as well as the media trope I discussed.
I also thought of that stupid trope even though I'm not black or adopted I can see & understand the hurt it causes.
Love Carla & Cherry 🍒 ... the real family of Ruby
Thank you for sharing
In the commentary RTD does comment on this, basically Ruby's mind is going top speed with all this information. It wasn't dismissing Carla, more of a slip up from someone who never had to deal with having two mums she knew. RTD does very specifically say Carla is her real mum.
Ruby loved her mum that was abundantly clear in all episodes she just wanted to know who her birth mother was. It's natural to want to know that given that she was abandoned. It's not just the usual adopted child who are my parents thing, she also wants to know why she was abandoned at a church. I agree the use of 'real mum' was clunky but I think that's just a turn of phrase it didn't indicate to me that she felt any less for her mum that raised her.
It was poor writing. The terms birth mother or biological mother are much more appropriate and would be well known or understandable to the audience.
It’s really bad that this wasn’t picked up by anyone - I’m sure there is a joke about what the script editor Scott Handcock was up to…
The "real mum" line is the one thing that truly threw me off. The rest of the season I had no problems with, but as an adopted child myself, there's a huge issue when people refer to an adopted child's bio parents as the "real parents", and I don't know any adopted children (especially not who were adopted at a very young age) who refer to their bio parents as real parents. (outside of rebellious teen years) It happens quite a bit in shows though which I think comes down to people just not doing their research about those things.
She doesn’t remember it as a memory, but something from that timeline stuck with her subconscious. She knew the range of the TARDIS perception filter was 73 yards. Carla was also awful to her after old Ruby talked to her. There had to be some resentment there.
They also had a moment where Carla looked kind of hurt about Ruby's mom at the end, but she just rolled with it in the end. I mean, Carla has helped a ton of children, but Ruby is the one that lasted into adulthood. It seems like the whole thing was just so poorly told.
Davies ran this story like he had the time to develop a lot more backstory, but never really delivered. I actually hope they don't try to make up for it in future episodes, too. Just let the flaws of the writing stay in the past.
The filter thing sticking could make sense, though I just thought that was ruby reacting what 15 said in a different way.
Thought the resentment might be a stretch
She has some sort of memories. She remembers 73 yards, she stops the Doctor from breaking the circle, and she tells him she’d been to Wales 3 times but couldn’t remember the second (in the beginning of the episode she says it’s only twice, including the episode).
But surely, if you count the two examples she gave and the other visits we know of, then the third time was when she landed with the Doctor, the FOURTH time was when she went to the stadium and the FIFTH time was when she visited with her carer.
Wasn't that due to them being on the valiant when the Paradox ended?
And they all remember completely
Wheras ruby only membered a number if I remember correctly
Yes. But I think it was proximity to the TARDIS/paradox machine that helped them remember. As far as we know, no one else remembers the year that never was, including any potential survivors on the Valiant.
Ruby was also near the TARDIS when time reset and they were back at the fairy circle. I think she has the potential to remember everything that happened
And if she did remember, that would be cool. Or if we had any reason to believe, she remembered more.
Kinda like Donna in that way. After she came out of the time bug thing. She remembered glimpses and random things like bad wold. But other than the 73-yard part, i didn't really notice anything.
But it's all moot now anyway, at least until next year.
I really hope her father is someone inportant
Same. Especially since, as the Doctor pointed out, she had 19 years to look for Ruby and never did. All she'd have to do is go back to the Church and start her search from there.
I was surprised she was as open and receptive to Ruby as she was when they met.
"not care who her mum was" vs "are you my Mummy?". Why would she not want to know about a girl her age with a child she could not take care of? Kate told her the Mom did a "kindness" getting Ruby out of that house. Nothing wrong with wanting to know your Mom AND Dad.
Other then the "real mother" part it just looks like a child happy with finding the missing piece . I personally have never met my bio dad even though my mom has all his info. So for a long time I dismissed the idea of wanting to know ones bio parents. But after meeting a lot of other people, I realized my way of thinking was not as common as I thought it was.
Truth be told, the first episode was more than enough to show the love that they have for each other. Remember, Ruby is the one that stayed. She made Carla's life complete. And as we learned in 73 yards, losing Carla was devastating to ruby and the only person she kept attempting to reconnect with.
For me, I know I love my mom and she loves me so I don't need to be told about it. I assume that with those two as well.
The way my heart broke for Carla when Ruby called her biological mother her “real mum”
Like girl, your mother is the woman who raised you! This lady created you biologically, yes. But you don’t even know her. Carla is her mum.
I too wish we had seen more of both Carla and Cherry. More of Ruby’s family dynamic.
Also can we talk about how her grandmothers name was Cherry Sunday! Like the ice cream. I love it, kinda
Unfortunately Ruby's only non-finale current day Earth story was in an alternative timeline where she's disowned. Normally you'd expect a few more episodes set in the current day to ground your companion. But with the series being 4 episodes shorter, we don't.
Also unfortunately most of the episodes she appeared in other than the finale were filmed before Church on Ruby Road. With 73 yards being the first time the actresses actually worked together. Which for Ruby's actress was a great first showing, but for Carla it was definitely more awkward material.
But as she'll return and her family is still part of the focus in the next season hopefully that relationship can be continued to build up. And as someone whose favourite episode of this new era was probably Church on Ruby Road (and possibly my favourite Christmas episode) I enjoyed a focus on these smaller worlds of character relationships.
I do get the feeling that when RTD says Ruby's story will continue next season, he's referring to Ruby trying to navigate this new nexus of relationships and having two families (potentially three, since her biological parents aren't together).
Yeah, Carla was really done dirty by the narrative. The whole of this season I've been saying that RTD would be weird about adoption, and lo, I was right.
I really, \*really\* hate the "real mom" terminology - Carla is Ruby's mum! She's raised her! She loves her! Claiming that some woman she's just met (even if they have the same DNA) is her "real mum" just screams of someone who hasn't put much thought into it at all.
I wondered how adopted families felt about the finding Ruby's real mother storyline felt. It will be a real experience for a lot of people but the fact there was no conversation about Ruby still thinking of Carla as her real mum and she was excited to get a second mum etc felt kinda disrespectful to adopted families, like it felt a bit like RTD is assuming there isn't true happiness and being settled in an adopted family
Reads like some people want their own story told. Who can tell a person who they should care to know? or be insulted if an adoptee wants to know their origins? THAT sounds petty and immature. *He moves between the gaps, the Spiteful one.*
> Plus in the finale Ruby literally dismisses Carla at one point, and keeps referring to Louise as her “real” mum
There is even a shot right after Ruby says this where it cuts to Carla 's and she seems visibly upset by this, but then the very next scene this shes excited to show her all the baby pictures.
There could be more to come to this, with Ruby slated to return. And honestly, it does seem like something Carla would do. She seems like very kind woman that deeply loves Ruby, so while maybe Ruby hurt her feelings she knew this would make Ruby happy to bond with Louise.
Yeah if they explore all this thoroughly in season 2 I won’t be so upset! It’s weird because the reunion sequence with Ruby and Louise took up a good 10 minutes yet we barely even hear from them, it’s all focused on Ruby.
Yes! Thank you!! The whole 'real mother' language of later episodes seemed to contradict the relationship they'd tried to establish in the first 2 episodes!
Also, frankly, RTD really does all his Black actors dirty - whether it's Mickey and Rose, or Martha and the Doctor, or now Carla and Ruby.
I don't think people notice - but his Black characters almost never get the fully happy and satisfactory endings that the White characters have.
And here it feels even sharper because Carla gets quite visibly sidelined by the end.
It was bad enough that they had the Doctor make a point about allowing the birth mother to make her own choice - and Ruby then went ahead and completely negated that sentiment (writing problem). But even the framing of the final shots, with Louise coming out and standing by Ruby and Ruby holding on to her, while Carla must force her way into the frame and then reaches out to Ruby with no reciprocal gesture - it was frankly insulting.
>the birth mother to make her own choice - and Ruby then went ahead and completely negated that sentiment (writing problem).
It's not a writing problem for two characters to disagree on how to handle a situation. The main writing reason that scene happens is bc the doctor has been avoiding his granddaughter and justifying that to himself, while Ruby's been putting a ton of energy into finding out who gave birth to her.
Agree with the rest though!
I'm sorry I can't see what you're getting at here, the language is imperfect because Ruby is in this situation experiencing it for herself, it's not an unreasonable reflection of the kind of things real people say, nor is it the full story, Ruby is always calling Carla "mum" & at the end of the episode is still calling her biological mother by her first name.
Similarly she didn't behave perfectly in her approaching of Louise, but she isn't meant to be a perfect person who behaves how detached members of the audience might, this is not a "writing problem", it is knowing your own characters well enough to write them honestly.
I also don't know how you've read the end of Carla's story here as sad, I don't think she's remotely sidelined other than of course Louise and Ruby are the centre of the scene, they're the subjects of it, they're the development. Carla and Cherry are happy for Ruby and have always been supportive of her search for her birth mother, this is you putting a negative spin on this
> Also, frankly, RTD really does all his Black actors dirty - whether it's Mickey and Rose, or Martha and the Doctor, or now Carla and Ruby.
>
>
Yes, RTD, who introduced the first black secondary companion, the first black primary companion, and the first black Doctor as lead, is secretely the mastermind of some racist conspiracy to screw over black actors...
Two things can be true. You can do something positive for a show with respect to representation, but also not have the perspective or experience to make that representation sensitive or authentic to the experiences of those being represented. It is why black writers/producers/show consultants are just as important as those in front of the camera.
Why are you using a hyperbolic line about masterminding a conspiracy theory to deflect someone’s criticism of the writing of black characters? That seems inappropriate and disrespectful.
RTD clearly has some blind spots in his writing. You can also look at his depiction of working class characters like Jackie and the tropes he endows her with to see more evidence of that.
Try engaging with the subject in good faith rather than being dismissive.
The part where she called her bio mum her 'real mum' felt really weird to me. My biological parents and my adoptive parents are all my real parents, if my bological parents were never in my life than they would be the less 'real' ones. Ruby calling her biomum her 'real mum' was like slapping her 'mum that actually raised her' in the face. And I think they could have added more moments with Carla and Ruby so we could see their relationship and they should have given a bit more with Louise.
The amount of times Ruby shouted "mum" in the beginning of The Legend of Ruby Sunday made me so frustrated with her. The woman who birthed you lost her right to be called "mum" the second she abandoned you in the freezing cold at a church while playing silly buggers in a cloak and playing the "ominously point at lamp post signs" game. Carla is your mum!
As someone who is adopted (as of 4 days old), the story line spoke to me in a real way more than the vast Majority of adoption story lines in the decades of my life before.
I thought Ruby's arc was kind of dumb. The mother that raised her was RIGHT THERE. Her birth mother didnt care enough to look for her yet shes glorified. Ruby (and Carla) basically let a total stranger into their house and lives... its just weird to me
"Ruby (and Carla) basically let a total stranger into their house and lives... its just weird to me"
You mean the TOTAL Alien Stranger with his box of magic tricks!? Cherry warned her! LOL.
I'm hoping we get to see more of her! I believe she was at the s2 end of filming party.
I do feel like storywise we've sort of emphasised Ruby's anxieties to the detriment of showing their relationship, would've been nice to have her around for an episode earlier without an alternate reality rejection
There’s nothing wrong with Carla being her Adoptive mum, and her real mum being her biological mum. Calling things what they are is fine.
It doesn’t change the experiences they had together, nor the feelings they have for one another.
It also doesn’t make her biological mother any more important than her adoptive mother, either. She is who she is, and she did what she did.
I wish the writing would have gone more into emotional issues of anger, abandonment, forgiveness, etc but then I remember this is from the writer that thought space babies was a good idea. And I know people will say yeah but RTD really got serious with racism in Dot and Bubble but I dont think he did. Sure the theming is there but the message got pretty muddled in it and I dont think it stuck the landing. I just don't think RTD is capable of writing really heavy stories for doctor who. And while you can say it's a family show kids also watch it, yeah and thru don't want shows that treat them like idiots.
I wasn’t keen on the way ‘real mum’ was used, but feel like Carla’s reaction was reasonable in the circumstances - she’d always known Ruby wanted to find her birth mother and would’ve supported her in that, however it turned out. It was Louise’s reaction that seemed a bit ‘fairy tale ending’, and then the plan to contact ‘Dad’ as though sure that will be equally perfect (& not potentially explode the life of a 35year old total stranger who doesn’t know you exist). But then, Mrs Flood spoke to us and now I think maybe ‘fairy tale ending’ was the point.
Sorry for the tangent!
The wording of ruby’s writing saying “my real mum” referring to her birth mom made me sad tbh. Idk why they couldn’t have just substituted “real” with “birth” which would be respectful to both parties.
Especially because Carla obviously raised her and chose to adopt her out of all the foster children she has met. Such a small word choice had never bothered me so much in this show, and it feels intentional. Maybe this plays out?
Russell explained that Ruby calling Louise her real Mum was a slip of the tongue, a very human mistake that anyone could make.
And I definitely thought there was a lot of love between Ruby and Carla, they clearly love and care about each other, there's a lot of affection there!
So if as a writer I wanted to show a slip of the tongue I’d use a self correction, eg:
“My real mum, erm I mean birth mum”
That conveys much more and more accurately depicts the idea that it was a slip of the tongue. Right?
Yeah but sometimes people will make this mistake and not realise it, it's a very human mistake to make and he wanted to convey that! We know what Ruby actually means!
No we don't know what she means, actually. Unless, she self corrects. Quite frankly, it sounds more like a *writer* slip of the tongue that the writer didn't notice until the commentary and then swiftly tried to correct by making a lesson out of it.
RTD is not a bad writer. He knew his audience. And I'm sure he didn't mean to imply what that line implies with 'real mum'. Most likely explanation is it was an oversight when writing and he's now saving face. Or...
I'll retract this statement if second season deals with this slip-up by Ruby and enhances the family understanding of the complex situation as result. I respect RTD's writing enough to think this is entirely possible, as well.
He has said this was very intentional, and in fact in that same scene Ruby even refers to her birth Mum and Dad by their real names as well, which she does not do with Carla!
The problem is that when you look at the audience reaction (see the commentary about it on this sub), it’s being interpreted as a slight against Carla, which I don’t think is what RTD was really going for.
Absolutely. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t because you know if he actually went out of his way to clarify this people would be on here complaining that he’s overexplaining and telling instead of showing and all that.
The thing about representation is that , after not being shown, once you represent a race, disability, or condition, people assume you must represent *Me! Like you better pick the most grateful adoptee who has NO reason to want to know their history, siblings, inherited traits, or else I'll be triggered with my own insecurities.*
On the contrary, I'm actually glad that RTD broke away from his usual pattern of spending too much time on present-day earth. The flip side of that is not enough of the Sunday family, but even so, I think we do get enough of them in 'Ruby Road', and then bits and pieces later (particularly the finale), to get a feel for the family and Ruby's connection to them.
As far as the 'real' mum thing goes, I wouldn't read too much into it. 'Real' is basically a synonym for biological in this context.
I think the “real mom” thing was just to differentiate Louise and Carla. Ruby calls Carla her mom (without any preface or context) and Louise her “real” mom (with a descriptor). How else was Ruby supposed to refer to her? She wasn’t gonna stop calling Carla “mom” just because Louise showed up. And I think Ruby just used “real” because technically speaking, Louise is her real mom. Louise is the one who carried her and birthed her, whereas Carla just adopted her and has no bio relation. Louise is her real mom in the sense that she was the one to give birth to Ruby.
I guess you didn’t read the rest of that sentence then. I said Carla just adopted her and has no bio relation to Ruby, but Louise does, so maybe to Ruby bio relation makes Louise “real”.
After we saw Space Babies being farmed with no one to take care of them, and in today's post contraception , post abortion world, who are we to condemn a woman who carries the newborn to somewhere SAFE? She gave new life a chance. Maybe Louise becomes the next Carla, or goes on to "foster" the Space Babies!
Carla just adopted her? Are you fucking serious? Carla lovingly raised her into the young woman she is and if you know anything about raising a child, it's nothing small compared to carrying and birthing a baby. Louise is her bio/birth mom but Carla is her real mom aka the one who took care of her and raised her and loved her all her life.
Damn okay so no one is understanding me cool
I said that in relation to Ruby, Louise is technically her real mom since they’re bio related. Ruby’s been calling Louise her real mom since we met her idk why it’s just a problem now. Ruby just calls Carla her mom, but Ruby needs to specify that Louise is a different mom, so she used what appears to be a bio descriptor.
I don't think of it that way.
Mother/father is the DNA donor. That's it.
Mom/Dad is the parent. They're the one that actually raised the child. They're the real parent.
I think it realistically makes sense in context.
Ruby is a 19 year old girl who's been through some pretty lifechanging experiences lately. On top of that, she finally meets her biological mother, and also learns that her mother is not someone who 'abandoned' her or who has some dark secret, but a pretty lovely lady who had a teenage pregnancy and wanted her child to have a better life, away from (what's implied to be) an abusive household.
So naturally, Ruby is overwhelmed by joy and excitement and refers to Louise as her 'real' mom.
Naturally, it's going to be a bit of a complicated situation moving forward as Ruby navigates new relationships with her biological parents, while she and Carla (and Cherry) need to deal with the shift in their relationship as well. But the show, understandably for narrative reasons, has chosen for now to focus on the positive emotions evoked by this cathartic moment.
The thing is, a lot of people expect characters on TV shows to not speak like real people, but like politically-correct ciphers devoid of any personal context or emotion. Saying 'real mother' in the context of 'biological mother' is viewed as being 'politically incorrect' so they attack the show and the writers for that.
There's also the fact that a lot of people who are adopted, or who are adoptive parents, feel sensitive about some of these issues based on their personal experiences, and resent the use of certain terms. Some of them even resent the very idea that an adoptive child might feel attached (equally or more) to their biological parents, or even want to *meet* their biological parents. I respect their viewpoint. But equally, they need to understand that there are other perspective about these issues as well, and not every narrative will conform to their view of the world.
her performance was also absolutely terrible lol, every time she came on the screen and said a line in the cinema i whispered “jesus she’s terrible” to my mum, literally says the lines as if she’s reading them for the first time, can’t be the only one who’s picked up on that right? especially in the scene when she first goes to the time window and says something along the lines of “what’s going on here” or something to that effect, can remember it taking me out of it just cause of how monotone and expressionlessly she read the line, literally as if 2 seconds prior someone said the line out loud for her to remember what to say, could be alone in this but it erks me every time
I think in general Carla and Ruby are victims of the series being so short Maybe with 10-12 episodes we could invest in their bond but here we just can’t
This. This is why they had to do so much telling as opposed to showing with Ruby in general. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for writers, now that series just keep getting shorter and shorter.
I don't know, in the older seasons where they were 30-40 minutes, like with Christopher Eccleston (I'm sorry on the spelling) it seemed like a lot more story and relationship building happened within one episode than in the new season. Something got messed up in production.
I don't think you're wrong, but I do think it still has to do with the limited amount of time they had to work with. 13 episodes is a *lot* more than 8, really — imagine all of the scenes with Jackie and Mickey that they would have had to cut if they'd needed to tell the story in just eight installments; not to mention all of the quiet, contemplative moments between Rose and the Doctor. If they'd had to jam Captain Jack or Lady Cassandra in with only eight episodes, honestly I think they probably wouldn't have bothered. A longer series would inevitably have given us extra time for "domestic" stuff, which I truly do think would have made the whole thing feel more intimate and congruent. I enjoyed all of the episodes in this season individually, but the overarching themes did feel kind of rushed. Rose and 9's adventure together feels almost *leisurely* at times... Ruby and 15, though, are always in a hurry. I wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice the time we spend getting to know them individually, but I also wish we'd seen them in the same room together more often... I don't know how I'd have balanced it, but I know it wouldn't have been easy with so many constraints. I also think it was prudent to have Rose and the Doctor referencing *other* trips they took together; talking about things we didn't necessarily see them do. It made the connection seem deeper & gave more of an impression of intimacy. And while I wouldn't have wanted to give Ruby a jealous partner, necessarily, I do think that the tension the Doctor causes between Mickey and Rose (and Jackie too) adds a lot.
Maybe if they'd cut back on all the "red herrings" they'd have had time to invest in character relationships more.
Personally I'd have balanced it out by cutting out Space Babies and replacing it entirely with other character building moments. I also would have cut the weird musical shit from TCORR
>I also would have cut the weird musical shit from TCORR Honestly I would rather keep that and cut the song from the end of The Devil's Chord
You nailed the spelling homie.
Holy cow, amazing, thank you!
That was definitely a major issue for me as well.
Yeah we got 2 13 episode series’ with Rose and Jackie. Even if ruby stays around for all 3 series they’ll have less episodes
I’m so sick of the eight episode per season pattern EVERY show seems to do these days
Yes, she got a fair amount in "The Church on Ruby Road," but then we didn't see much of her, comparatively. I feel like RTD's insistence on trying to make many of the episodes about the mystery of Ruby's biological mother, which ultimately was not that mysterious, shortchanged her a bit.
That's honestly what hurts so much about all this, it feels like they spent so much time of an already short runtime to Ruby's 'real' mum, only for it to end with something feeling so unsatisfying and ordinary. Like, if they just wanted Ruby's mum to be ordinary, couldn't we have instead used that runtime to flesh out Carla? yanno, the actual mum who raised Ruby..
> I feel like RTD's insistence on trying to make many of the episodes about the mystery of Ruby's biological mother Like, maybe Space Babies in a way? Otherwise, it was small scenes in larger episodes. Well, 73 yards maybe but that was always going to be Doctor-lite anyway.
We can deduce the cruelty of Carla from someone never ever getting her tea.
All Cherry wanted was a good cup of tea.
As long as Susan Triad isn't making the tea!
Honestly tho I don’t envy Carla seems like she’s got her hands full 😂
I think Carla is having complicated feelings about having to share her baby. Louise is new and shiny and never came looking for Ruby. She’s probably worried about it all but trying to just be happy for Ruby. I just wish they would have referred to her as “bio mum” not “real mom”. Carla IS a real mom
To connect what you and OP are saying a bit, the "real mom" part made me feel a bit uncomfortable as a black woman. Even though the show demonstrates that Ruby loves Carla, the fact of the matter is that it was a black woman who raised her for 20 years and then, in that moment, it felt like she and the work and time she put into that relationship were somewhat disposable (or at least devalued) when a white woman came along. I think the complexity of the situation could have been more sensitively written, but there's a common trope (in media and in real life) where black women are tasked with doing the labor of lifting others--especially white people--up, getting them to where they're supposed to be, and helping them find their happy ending, and then being dismissed once their job is done. For now, it looks like they are all happy together, but the implication that the woman who never went looking for Ruby was her "real mom" (rather than using the term bio mom) and not the black woman who raised her just felt off. My perspective also comes from being someone who considers her step-dad her "real dad" because he was the one who raised me.
The strangest part is that near the very end, she refers to Carla as her mum and calls Louise by her first name. But it's completely inconsistent.
We could argue that this inconsistency is a reflection of Ruby's internal conflict and her real-time attempts to mentally reconcile these two women's roles in her life. But we're not shown enough of it to really say--it all happened so quick at the end!
I thought that made sense. It makes sense when referring to her bio mum that she didn’t know yet as “real mum”(even though I understand the arguments that it’s a bit problematic) but once she knows her name she’s just Louise.
I think the "real mum" bit is more than a bit problematic. Also she learns her name at UNIT Tower before she meets her. If she sticks with calling her Louise in future appearances, I'll get over it.
I think you are reading too much into it. I really don't think it has anything to do with race at all. She has not forgotten Carla nor is she replacing her with Louise. But she has been searching for her birth mother since she was old enough to want to, which Carla is fully aware of. I think Ruby is adding to her already massive family, because Ruby isn't the only child Carla has fostered. Let's not forget that you put yourself forward to be a foster carer, no one makes you do it. So how can this be a case of stereotyping a black woman doing all the leg work for white people? All those children are still part of the family. No one has been forgotten or left behind. Their pictures are all on the fridge. Also in defence of Louise, the white woman who is apparently taking over the situation in your opinion, she literally says herself she didn't know if Ruby hated her, so didn't look for her. I have trouble with that especially because mum guilt is bad enough without adding in to the ring that she's white and coming to take Ruby away or something. She didn't abandon Ruby gladly or easily. You want to guilt trip her for being white as well? She wouldn't know that Ruby's foster family would be black. I find it sad you think Carla has been devalued by Ruby finding Louise. Tbh I really don't see how you can judge it fully, since we leave them all right when they've all just come together. It's all very raw and new for all of them. It will take time for them to fall into a new family pattern. Carla needs to let Ruby be happy in the moment and get to know her birth mother as is her wish. Ruby will just have an even bigger family at the end of it, which includes Carla and Cherry *and* Louise. The only person Ruby is leaving behind for the moment is the Doctor because he would take her away from all of those things she's been looking for.
I can't imagine anyone thinks they know the only way to tell this story; there is so much personal and specific. "the work and time Carla put into the relationship" is the reason Ruby wasn't bitter to her (bio)mom. Why put the moms in competition? Ruby is an adult and will always be adding more loved ones in her life, spouse, children, BFF's; that doesn't "devalue" those she loved before and still loves. Ruby IS Carla's daughter, she's not "white people" she's saving; t*hat's Lindy Pepper-Bean.*
The argument I was making was that the words "real mum" implicitly put the mothers in competition and makes one relationship feel less significant than the other. I agree that they shouldn't be in competition, which is my whole criticism of the script. I approach this, again, as a daughter to a close step-parent. If he ever thought to call me his step-kid and then my brother his "real" kid, I'd naturally feel as if somehow, my relationship with my parent was less legitimate than my brother's. Fortunately, that is not the situation I'm in, but the language here does matter.
right, but in the real world people don't always use perfect language, the script isn't there to always use the right words or phrases, it's perfectly reasonable that she might use this term, and besides, Ruby is still often referring to her biological mother as simply "Louise" at the end of the episode, which shows the complexities within this kind of dynamic.
You need to stop. Your wrong. In the real world we say ‘bio-mom’ no one adopted says real mom. Because our real mom is the one who raised us. It’s a huge thing with adopted kids. The difference is important.
Why the hell are you bringing race into it? This is the problem with people terminally online. Race has NOTHING to do with it. Stop looking for racism everywhere. Also we get one seen of them together. I’m sorry but if the person who raised me can’t be happy that I found my biological mom then they are a shitty person. Not once does it show ruby dismissing her or saying they don’t love her. She knows that Ruby had been looking for her mom for her whole life, it’s fine that she wants to take a small step back and let ruby have this.
The body and world I live in don't really give me the choice not to consider race, and it is not an effect of being "terminally online." It is an effect of being "perpetually in a black body whose experiences are often informed by other people's prejudices." If this is not an experience you can relate to and thus feel the need to aggressively rail against the possibility of, then congrats to you. My comment clearly states that the show demonstrates Ruby's love for Carla. The *script*, in the scene in question, chooses language that inevitably dismisses Carla and her role in Ruby's life and actively undermines the relationship the show has otherwise tried to signal these two have, and it does it in a way that might make the audience feel as if Ruby, herself, is dismissing Carla now that she has found the birth mother she has been searching for. That dismissal feels worse in the context of Carla being a black woman raising a young white woman, as well as the media trope I discussed.
I also thought of that stupid trope even though I'm not black or adopted I can see & understand the hurt it causes. Love Carla & Cherry 🍒 ... the real family of Ruby Thank you for sharing
In the commentary RTD does comment on this, basically Ruby's mind is going top speed with all this information. It wasn't dismissing Carla, more of a slip up from someone who never had to deal with having two mums she knew. RTD does very specifically say Carla is her real mum.
Ruby loved her mum that was abundantly clear in all episodes she just wanted to know who her birth mother was. It's natural to want to know that given that she was abandoned. It's not just the usual adopted child who are my parents thing, she also wants to know why she was abandoned at a church. I agree the use of 'real mum' was clunky but I think that's just a turn of phrase it didn't indicate to me that she felt any less for her mum that raised her.
It was poor writing. The terms birth mother or biological mother are much more appropriate and would be well known or understandable to the audience. It’s really bad that this wasn’t picked up by anyone - I’m sure there is a joke about what the script editor Scott Handcock was up to…
The real shame is we didn’t get more of grandma! She was brilliant and funny.
That poor woman is never going to get a cup of tea…
The "real mum" line is the one thing that truly threw me off. The rest of the season I had no problems with, but as an adopted child myself, there's a huge issue when people refer to an adopted child's bio parents as the "real parents", and I don't know any adopted children (especially not who were adopted at a very young age) who refer to their bio parents as real parents. (outside of rebellious teen years) It happens quite a bit in shows though which I think comes down to people just not doing their research about those things.
Ruby seemed meaner to her a little bit after 73 Yards, I felt like. Subconscious memory influencing her?
Maybe but thankfully, Ruby would have no memory of that timeline
She doesn’t remember it as a memory, but something from that timeline stuck with her subconscious. She knew the range of the TARDIS perception filter was 73 yards. Carla was also awful to her after old Ruby talked to her. There had to be some resentment there.
They also had a moment where Carla looked kind of hurt about Ruby's mom at the end, but she just rolled with it in the end. I mean, Carla has helped a ton of children, but Ruby is the one that lasted into adulthood. It seems like the whole thing was just so poorly told. Davies ran this story like he had the time to develop a lot more backstory, but never really delivered. I actually hope they don't try to make up for it in future episodes, too. Just let the flaws of the writing stay in the past.
I think they changed the story in the finale, for reasons. That may be why it feels so disjointed.
The filter thing sticking could make sense, though I just thought that was ruby reacting what 15 said in a different way. Thought the resentment might be a stretch
She has some sort of memories. She remembers 73 yards, she stops the Doctor from breaking the circle, and she tells him she’d been to Wales 3 times but couldn’t remember the second (in the beginning of the episode she says it’s only twice, including the episode).
But surely, if you count the two examples she gave and the other visits we know of, then the third time was when she landed with the Doctor, the FOURTH time was when she went to the stadium and the FIFTH time was when she visited with her carer.
she does remember the 73 yards thing though
Which she shouldn't since that never happened.
Time travelers can have slight memories, shadows, dreams of the alternate timeline.
I suppose she might have had a random thought aboutit
Yeah, although that would make me want to cling more to my mom. Like that phonecall between Ruby and Carla, fuck that devasted me.
It does. Time was fucked by Sutekh so things could bleed through like that.
Sutekh fucks, you heard it here first
I bring the gift of Sutekh’s Giggity.
Meme of him on the Tardis as he watches Amy try to fuck 11x Sutekh The Voyeur
I'm sorry that came out wrong 😄 Bleed through from where though it never existed. Especially since none of what she did had any bearing on reality
It doesn’t need to. It had a bearing on her.
Martha, her family, the Doctor and Jack all remember the year that never was
Wasn't that due to them being on the valiant when the Paradox ended? And they all remember completely Wheras ruby only membered a number if I remember correctly
Yes. But I think it was proximity to the TARDIS/paradox machine that helped them remember. As far as we know, no one else remembers the year that never was, including any potential survivors on the Valiant. Ruby was also near the TARDIS when time reset and they were back at the fairy circle. I think she has the potential to remember everything that happened
And if she did remember, that would be cool. Or if we had any reason to believe, she remembered more. Kinda like Donna in that way. After she came out of the time bug thing. She remembered glimpses and random things like bad wold. But other than the 73-yard part, i didn't really notice anything. But it's all moot now anyway, at least until next year. I really hope her father is someone inportant
Timey wimey
Yup, I was almost hoping Ruby would realise that Carla IS her mum and there would be a big arc of her coming to not care who her mum was
I would have preferred this ending. Something in the style of Puss in Boots 2: The Last Wish lol.
Same. Especially since, as the Doctor pointed out, she had 19 years to look for Ruby and never did. All she'd have to do is go back to the Church and start her search from there. I was surprised she was as open and receptive to Ruby as she was when they met.
I really thought this is what they were building up to after she dropped the screen in front of sukeh
This is much more realistic imo
"not care who her mum was" vs "are you my Mummy?". Why would she not want to know about a girl her age with a child she could not take care of? Kate told her the Mom did a "kindness" getting Ruby out of that house. Nothing wrong with wanting to know your Mom AND Dad.
Other then the "real mother" part it just looks like a child happy with finding the missing piece . I personally have never met my bio dad even though my mom has all his info. So for a long time I dismissed the idea of wanting to know ones bio parents. But after meeting a lot of other people, I realized my way of thinking was not as common as I thought it was. Truth be told, the first episode was more than enough to show the love that they have for each other. Remember, Ruby is the one that stayed. She made Carla's life complete. And as we learned in 73 yards, losing Carla was devastating to ruby and the only person she kept attempting to reconnect with. For me, I know I love my mom and she loves me so I don't need to be told about it. I assume that with those two as well.
So Mommy is a "show don't tell" person? She needs to write for Doctor Who!
The way my heart broke for Carla when Ruby called her biological mother her “real mum” Like girl, your mother is the woman who raised you! This lady created you biologically, yes. But you don’t even know her. Carla is her mum. I too wish we had seen more of both Carla and Cherry. More of Ruby’s family dynamic. Also can we talk about how her grandmothers name was Cherry Sunday! Like the ice cream. I love it, kinda
Unfortunately Ruby's only non-finale current day Earth story was in an alternative timeline where she's disowned. Normally you'd expect a few more episodes set in the current day to ground your companion. But with the series being 4 episodes shorter, we don't. Also unfortunately most of the episodes she appeared in other than the finale were filmed before Church on Ruby Road. With 73 yards being the first time the actresses actually worked together. Which for Ruby's actress was a great first showing, but for Carla it was definitely more awkward material. But as she'll return and her family is still part of the focus in the next season hopefully that relationship can be continued to build up. And as someone whose favourite episode of this new era was probably Church on Ruby Road (and possibly my favourite Christmas episode) I enjoyed a focus on these smaller worlds of character relationships.
I do get the feeling that when RTD says Ruby's story will continue next season, he's referring to Ruby trying to navigate this new nexus of relationships and having two families (potentially three, since her biological parents aren't together).
Yeah, Carla was really done dirty by the narrative. The whole of this season I've been saying that RTD would be weird about adoption, and lo, I was right. I really, \*really\* hate the "real mom" terminology - Carla is Ruby's mum! She's raised her! She loves her! Claiming that some woman she's just met (even if they have the same DNA) is her "real mum" just screams of someone who hasn't put much thought into it at all.
I wondered how adopted families felt about the finding Ruby's real mother storyline felt. It will be a real experience for a lot of people but the fact there was no conversation about Ruby still thinking of Carla as her real mum and she was excited to get a second mum etc felt kinda disrespectful to adopted families, like it felt a bit like RTD is assuming there isn't true happiness and being settled in an adopted family
Reads like some people want their own story told. Who can tell a person who they should care to know? or be insulted if an adoptee wants to know their origins? THAT sounds petty and immature. *He moves between the gaps, the Spiteful one.*
> Plus in the finale Ruby literally dismisses Carla at one point, and keeps referring to Louise as her “real” mum There is even a shot right after Ruby says this where it cuts to Carla 's and she seems visibly upset by this, but then the very next scene this shes excited to show her all the baby pictures. There could be more to come to this, with Ruby slated to return. And honestly, it does seem like something Carla would do. She seems like very kind woman that deeply loves Ruby, so while maybe Ruby hurt her feelings she knew this would make Ruby happy to bond with Louise.
Yeah if they explore all this thoroughly in season 2 I won’t be so upset! It’s weird because the reunion sequence with Ruby and Louise took up a good 10 minutes yet we barely even hear from them, it’s all focused on Ruby.
Yes! Thank you!! The whole 'real mother' language of later episodes seemed to contradict the relationship they'd tried to establish in the first 2 episodes! Also, frankly, RTD really does all his Black actors dirty - whether it's Mickey and Rose, or Martha and the Doctor, or now Carla and Ruby. I don't think people notice - but his Black characters almost never get the fully happy and satisfactory endings that the White characters have. And here it feels even sharper because Carla gets quite visibly sidelined by the end. It was bad enough that they had the Doctor make a point about allowing the birth mother to make her own choice - and Ruby then went ahead and completely negated that sentiment (writing problem). But even the framing of the final shots, with Louise coming out and standing by Ruby and Ruby holding on to her, while Carla must force her way into the frame and then reaches out to Ruby with no reciprocal gesture - it was frankly insulting.
>the birth mother to make her own choice - and Ruby then went ahead and completely negated that sentiment (writing problem). It's not a writing problem for two characters to disagree on how to handle a situation. The main writing reason that scene happens is bc the doctor has been avoiding his granddaughter and justifying that to himself, while Ruby's been putting a ton of energy into finding out who gave birth to her. Agree with the rest though!
I'm sorry I can't see what you're getting at here, the language is imperfect because Ruby is in this situation experiencing it for herself, it's not an unreasonable reflection of the kind of things real people say, nor is it the full story, Ruby is always calling Carla "mum" & at the end of the episode is still calling her biological mother by her first name. Similarly she didn't behave perfectly in her approaching of Louise, but she isn't meant to be a perfect person who behaves how detached members of the audience might, this is not a "writing problem", it is knowing your own characters well enough to write them honestly. I also don't know how you've read the end of Carla's story here as sad, I don't think she's remotely sidelined other than of course Louise and Ruby are the centre of the scene, they're the subjects of it, they're the development. Carla and Cherry are happy for Ruby and have always been supportive of her search for her birth mother, this is you putting a negative spin on this
> Also, frankly, RTD really does all his Black actors dirty - whether it's Mickey and Rose, or Martha and the Doctor, or now Carla and Ruby. > > Yes, RTD, who introduced the first black secondary companion, the first black primary companion, and the first black Doctor as lead, is secretely the mastermind of some racist conspiracy to screw over black actors...
Two things can be true. You can do something positive for a show with respect to representation, but also not have the perspective or experience to make that representation sensitive or authentic to the experiences of those being represented. It is why black writers/producers/show consultants are just as important as those in front of the camera.
Why are you using a hyperbolic line about masterminding a conspiracy theory to deflect someone’s criticism of the writing of black characters? That seems inappropriate and disrespectful. RTD clearly has some blind spots in his writing. You can also look at his depiction of working class characters like Jackie and the tropes he endows her with to see more evidence of that. Try engaging with the subject in good faith rather than being dismissive.
Michelle Greenidge got done dirty by a script that gave her less than nothing.
The part where she called her bio mum her 'real mum' felt really weird to me. My biological parents and my adoptive parents are all my real parents, if my bological parents were never in my life than they would be the less 'real' ones. Ruby calling her biomum her 'real mum' was like slapping her 'mum that actually raised her' in the face. And I think they could have added more moments with Carla and Ruby so we could see their relationship and they should have given a bit more with Louise.
The amount of times Ruby shouted "mum" in the beginning of The Legend of Ruby Sunday made me so frustrated with her. The woman who birthed you lost her right to be called "mum" the second she abandoned you in the freezing cold at a church while playing silly buggers in a cloak and playing the "ominously point at lamp post signs" game. Carla is your mum!
I’m adopted and the whole ‘real mom’ dismissal of her adoptive parent bugged me a LOT. It was not ok.
I just love the time we do get with Carla and Cherry.
There WERE a couple of sweet moments, I just wanted more!
Cherry just wanted a cup of tea!
As someone who is adopted (as of 4 days old), the story line spoke to me in a real way more than the vast Majority of adoption story lines in the decades of my life before.
I thought Ruby's arc was kind of dumb. The mother that raised her was RIGHT THERE. Her birth mother didnt care enough to look for her yet shes glorified. Ruby (and Carla) basically let a total stranger into their house and lives... its just weird to me
Tracey Beaker managed to do it much better twenty years ago.
"Ruby (and Carla) basically let a total stranger into their house and lives... its just weird to me" You mean the TOTAL Alien Stranger with his box of magic tricks!? Cherry warned her! LOL.
I'm hoping we get to see more of her! I believe she was at the s2 end of filming party. I do feel like storywise we've sort of emphasised Ruby's anxieties to the detriment of showing their relationship, would've been nice to have her around for an episode earlier without an alternate reality rejection
There’s nothing wrong with Carla being her Adoptive mum, and her real mum being her biological mum. Calling things what they are is fine. It doesn’t change the experiences they had together, nor the feelings they have for one another. It also doesn’t make her biological mother any more important than her adoptive mother, either. She is who she is, and she did what she did.
I wish the writing would have gone more into emotional issues of anger, abandonment, forgiveness, etc but then I remember this is from the writer that thought space babies was a good idea. And I know people will say yeah but RTD really got serious with racism in Dot and Bubble but I dont think he did. Sure the theming is there but the message got pretty muddled in it and I dont think it stuck the landing. I just don't think RTD is capable of writing really heavy stories for doctor who. And while you can say it's a family show kids also watch it, yeah and thru don't want shows that treat them like idiots.
Can someone explain to me why a character who was adopted as a baby into a Jamaican household in London has a Northern accent?
Because a character from Gallifrey speaks with a Scottish accent! It's called casting, we can get over the nits can't we?
I wasn’t keen on the way ‘real mum’ was used, but feel like Carla’s reaction was reasonable in the circumstances - she’d always known Ruby wanted to find her birth mother and would’ve supported her in that, however it turned out. It was Louise’s reaction that seemed a bit ‘fairy tale ending’, and then the plan to contact ‘Dad’ as though sure that will be equally perfect (& not potentially explode the life of a 35year old total stranger who doesn’t know you exist). But then, Mrs Flood spoke to us and now I think maybe ‘fairy tale ending’ was the point. Sorry for the tangent!
The wording of ruby’s writing saying “my real mum” referring to her birth mom made me sad tbh. Idk why they couldn’t have just substituted “real” with “birth” which would be respectful to both parties. Especially because Carla obviously raised her and chose to adopt her out of all the foster children she has met. Such a small word choice had never bothered me so much in this show, and it feels intentional. Maybe this plays out?
Russell explained that Ruby calling Louise her real Mum was a slip of the tongue, a very human mistake that anyone could make. And I definitely thought there was a lot of love between Ruby and Carla, they clearly love and care about each other, there's a lot of affection there!
Why write that into the story like that? Surely if that’s what you wanted to convey you could have her self correct etc?
Because it was intentionally done to show it I'd easy to make that kind of mistake and not realise that, he addresses this in the commentary.
So the commentary was a handwaving explanation rather than a revelation of intent. I’m not a huge fan of RTD but this all feels kind of… shambolic?
No he said it was very intentional!
So if as a writer I wanted to show a slip of the tongue I’d use a self correction, eg: “My real mum, erm I mean birth mum” That conveys much more and more accurately depicts the idea that it was a slip of the tongue. Right?
I agree. You shouldn't need to watch some supplemental material to understand the intent. It's just poor writing.
Yeah but sometimes people will make this mistake and not realise it, it's a very human mistake to make and he wanted to convey that! We know what Ruby actually means!
No we don't know what she means, actually. Unless, she self corrects. Quite frankly, it sounds more like a *writer* slip of the tongue that the writer didn't notice until the commentary and then swiftly tried to correct by making a lesson out of it. RTD is not a bad writer. He knew his audience. And I'm sure he didn't mean to imply what that line implies with 'real mum'. Most likely explanation is it was an oversight when writing and he's now saving face. Or... I'll retract this statement if second season deals with this slip-up by Ruby and enhances the family understanding of the complex situation as result. I respect RTD's writing enough to think this is entirely possible, as well.
He has said this was very intentional, and in fact in that same scene Ruby even refers to her birth Mum and Dad by their real names as well, which she does not do with Carla!
The problem is that when you look at the audience reaction (see the commentary about it on this sub), it’s being interpreted as a slight against Carla, which I don’t think is what RTD was really going for.
Absolutely. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t because you know if he actually went out of his way to clarify this people would be on here complaining that he’s overexplaining and telling instead of showing and all that.
The thing about representation is that , after not being shown, once you represent a race, disability, or condition, people assume you must represent *Me! Like you better pick the most grateful adoptee who has NO reason to want to know their history, siblings, inherited traits, or else I'll be triggered with my own insecurities.*
On the contrary, I'm actually glad that RTD broke away from his usual pattern of spending too much time on present-day earth. The flip side of that is not enough of the Sunday family, but even so, I think we do get enough of them in 'Ruby Road', and then bits and pieces later (particularly the finale), to get a feel for the family and Ruby's connection to them. As far as the 'real' mum thing goes, I wouldn't read too much into it. 'Real' is basically a synonym for biological in this context.
The actresses didn't have good chemistry. They did everything right, their relationship was fine on paper, it just didn't work as it should.
Generally had no idea who Carla was for a bit. Shes a nothing charter
No I bought it, worked fine for me
I think the “real mom” thing was just to differentiate Louise and Carla. Ruby calls Carla her mom (without any preface or context) and Louise her “real” mom (with a descriptor). How else was Ruby supposed to refer to her? She wasn’t gonna stop calling Carla “mom” just because Louise showed up. And I think Ruby just used “real” because technically speaking, Louise is her real mom. Louise is the one who carried her and birthed her, whereas Carla just adopted her and has no bio relation. Louise is her real mom in the sense that she was the one to give birth to Ruby.
"Carla *just* adopted her" feels as if you're dismissing the role of adoptive parents, perhaps even more than the scene in question.
I guess you didn’t read the rest of that sentence then. I said Carla just adopted her and has no bio relation to Ruby, but Louise does, so maybe to Ruby bio relation makes Louise “real”.
Birth mom would be accurate without being dismissive
Louise is the one that abbandoned her, Carla is the one that chose her
After we saw Space Babies being farmed with no one to take care of them, and in today's post contraception , post abortion world, who are we to condemn a woman who carries the newborn to somewhere SAFE? She gave new life a chance. Maybe Louise becomes the next Carla, or goes on to "foster" the Space Babies!
Carla just adopted her? Are you fucking serious? Carla lovingly raised her into the young woman she is and if you know anything about raising a child, it's nothing small compared to carrying and birthing a baby. Louise is her bio/birth mom but Carla is her real mom aka the one who took care of her and raised her and loved her all her life.
Damn okay so no one is understanding me cool I said that in relation to Ruby, Louise is technically her real mom since they’re bio related. Ruby’s been calling Louise her real mom since we met her idk why it’s just a problem now. Ruby just calls Carla her mom, but Ruby needs to specify that Louise is a different mom, so she used what appears to be a bio descriptor.
I don't think of it that way. Mother/father is the DNA donor. That's it. Mom/Dad is the parent. They're the one that actually raised the child. They're the real parent.
I think it realistically makes sense in context. Ruby is a 19 year old girl who's been through some pretty lifechanging experiences lately. On top of that, she finally meets her biological mother, and also learns that her mother is not someone who 'abandoned' her or who has some dark secret, but a pretty lovely lady who had a teenage pregnancy and wanted her child to have a better life, away from (what's implied to be) an abusive household. So naturally, Ruby is overwhelmed by joy and excitement and refers to Louise as her 'real' mom. Naturally, it's going to be a bit of a complicated situation moving forward as Ruby navigates new relationships with her biological parents, while she and Carla (and Cherry) need to deal with the shift in their relationship as well. But the show, understandably for narrative reasons, has chosen for now to focus on the positive emotions evoked by this cathartic moment. The thing is, a lot of people expect characters on TV shows to not speak like real people, but like politically-correct ciphers devoid of any personal context or emotion. Saying 'real mother' in the context of 'biological mother' is viewed as being 'politically incorrect' so they attack the show and the writers for that. There's also the fact that a lot of people who are adopted, or who are adoptive parents, feel sensitive about some of these issues based on their personal experiences, and resent the use of certain terms. Some of them even resent the very idea that an adoptive child might feel attached (equally or more) to their biological parents, or even want to *meet* their biological parents. I respect their viewpoint. But equally, they need to understand that there are other perspective about these issues as well, and not every narrative will conform to their view of the world.
her performance was also absolutely terrible lol, every time she came on the screen and said a line in the cinema i whispered “jesus she’s terrible” to my mum, literally says the lines as if she’s reading them for the first time, can’t be the only one who’s picked up on that right? especially in the scene when she first goes to the time window and says something along the lines of “what’s going on here” or something to that effect, can remember it taking me out of it just cause of how monotone and expressionlessly she read the line, literally as if 2 seconds prior someone said the line out loud for her to remember what to say, could be alone in this but it erks me every time
Her, she, she's, she , her. : *WHO*?
well if the post is talking about rubys foster mum then who do you think i’m talking about?