For me goku is the heart and soul of the series. Without him it’s not the same. Can you have a dragon without him? Yes, but in my opinion the story would be mid
Early Namek & Android saga were some of the best parts of Z.
Even if Goku doesn’t radiate MC energy, he can still have scenes like in DB Super hero.
Tbh I liked Super hero far more than Broly or BoGs as well, so DB can definitely be above “mid” without Goku.
Unpopular opinion I also liked the garlic jr filler saga, which also didn’t have Goku.
> It’s one of the reasons why Toriyama kept him in besides fans being pissed over Gohan possibly taking over.
fans supposedly being mad never had anything to do with it.
So like a prequel? I think the general setting could work - but the pressure to tie it back to fan favorite characters would kill it.
Best bet would be one that ties back to King Piccolos’ first defeat imo.
It would be nice, but I don't know if it would work. Unfortunately, Dragon Ball was ruined by increasingly exaggerated power levels. Now going back to more human levels would be counterproductive, because people have become badly accustomed to beings who can destroy universes. Going back to people who can lift giant boulders and feel strong because of it would be counterproductive.
So on a prequel note. As much hate or jokes we make about killin, roshi, and especially Yamaha. Most people overlook just how powerful these people are as humans. Like let's say no saiyans or aliens existed. These would be our heroes. They are insanely strong. Of course compared to aliens such as saiyans and all the other beings it's low. But people I think sometimes forget that goku isn't one of us in that sense, and they need to be reminded that
I think there are only 2 universes with dragon balls. The 6th and the 7th. The “wish orbs” are only on the planet Namek, which only the 6th and 7th have. Besides that the Super Dragon Balls exist only in those universes too. Not even two sets, just one set divided over both universes. Iirc.
I just discovered Dragon ball without the “DragonBalls” -SandLand- legit feels like love letter to the OG DragonBall arcs and Dragon Quest games… just wholesome adventures, with a little badass that’s too strong for his own good…
Yeah, there are so many fun characters and settings introduced into the franchise and many of them could carry a story on their own.
The origins of young Roshi, the misadventures of the Ginyu Force out in space, the "next generation" with Pan and Uub, the Saiyans before their fall etc.
Goku is a big part of the franchise but people tend to forget that there were long stretches of the story where he was mostly absent and it was still enjoyable to read. As long as they make these kind of prequel/spin-offs GOOD then that's the important thing.
he is the ultimate template for free story DLC. carefree, always forgiving, always looking to get even stronger, always changing evil people into frenemies (even Freeza has started to come around), always game for random adventure/fights.
no one else has that aura/effect in DB. he is too critical to the story.
Yea, there's not that many Dragons left since Beerus nearly extincted them. But if they were going to replace him he should still be a guest occasionally.
Dragon Ball without Goku is Future Trunks' timeline - nearly everyone dies and those still alive are miserable
DB without Goku only works if it is set in a different era (ex. Roshi as a young man) or planet altogether (ex. Planet Vegeta)
I would love a prequel with young Roshi & crane tbh, they had some filler scenes in OG dragonball but that’s it
Plus it would bring back the kung fu vibe since Roshi wouldn’t have mastered his Turtle wave & would have to use techniques not related to moon destroying Ki blasts.
The name Dragon Ball is too attached to Goku in my opinion. It's basically his story. But I would love to read or see a spinoff in other universes, even if it's about dragon balls too. But I think the name of the spinoff needs to be different, to really mark the distinction between U7 and that universe.
I would personally love to read the stories of Cabba and Caulifla, without any Goku or Vegeta in them.
No, but enough people believe that nonsense to the point where we will never get a series or an arc where Goku isn’t the MC.
Plenty of younger characters have loads of potential (Uub, Pan, Goten, Trunks) & it’s not like Goku was always around in our favorite saga of Z either, in fact some of the best parts of Z was when Goku wasn’t around like the early androids & Namek saga.
It’s not like they will replace Goku in popularity but does supergirl or superboy replace Superman in popularity ?? Absolutely not, but we deserve to see new stories & new characters fleshed out as more than just side pieces.
*Dragonball* can be the story of Goku without Goku always being at the center of the story. Being the lead protagonist doesn't mean or imply that compelling stories & arcs can't happen without you physically being there.
It doesn't mean you always have to be the most important character of that particular situation or be the one to get the win against the big villain. It does not mean or imply that you must be the center of your universe.
No disrespect or condescension intended, but it's odd to me how many people struggle to understand this, let alone subscribe to this misguided belief that this series somehow doesn't lend itself well to that. Numerous quality *DB* stories exist where Goku is only mentioned or briefly appears in flashbacks or visions.
One of the most successful + influential *DB* stories of all time to date starts off with him dying. And plenty of stories would work just fine even without him being so much as mentioned beyond perhaps a line of dialogue.
I accepted long ago that Goku will most likely always be milked for marketing purposes, even when it's at best unnecessary and at worst actively undermines other characters' opportunities to shine or develop organically.
Textbook example: Vegeta being robbed of destroying Frieza in *Resurrection F* after both Goku (in Future Trunks' timeline) and Trunks already got to defeat & kill him before. Like it or not, Goku's the franchise's primary cash cow.
But that doesn't alter the fact that he is not the sole vital ingredient to quality *DB*. The mythology has grown so much bigger than him alone, and his influence on other characters if felt even when he's not around.
Goku's appeal as a character isn't just his presence within the plot at large. It's also his legacy and the impact he has on those around him. Even if he permanently died, his actions & example would echo through *DB* for generations. He's left such a mark on the universe around him that he could never be truly dissociated from it.
And even if he'd stayed dead after the Cell arc, there are multiple ways he still could've been involved as the main character and even regularly visit Earth while having his own adventures. You can balance out him doing his own thing with still actively participating in Earth's latest crisis + keeping up with his loved ones.
You can have Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, Trunks, Pan, Uub, or others take on bigger roles without sacrificing Goku's main protagonist status. There are plenty of ways to write this without supporting characters getting neglected. It comes down to execution. Sadly, again, I doubt *DB* will go this route in canon anytime soon.
I mean Pokemon have moved on from Ash, although I guess one can argue Pikachu is the equivalent of Goku in Pikachu, but really Ash was the protagonist. So I don't see why DB can't move on from Goku.
Golu is ok but we have too much dragon balls. I would gladly take some plot of all ball being destroyed for good. Does anyone know if manga addressed if there are other sets in different universes?
Maybe it could work but it then again goku is literally the face of the franchise. Thats like ripping the titular character from a franchise they are named after.
Reminds of I miss when Goku was kinda treated as Saitama from One Punch Man. Where he would come later on into fights and be the hero of grace to end things. (Sayain and Namek arc)
Now it's kinda overwhelming/predictable. At least for me.
I've always thought this since I was a kid, but I'd love to see some saiyan-less Dragon Ball. Just the humans and Namekians fighting. The Saiyans could be off on an adventure or something as an explanation.
To be honest, this is the weirdest hypothetical. I mean, are we talking about the same character with just a different name? This makes no sense to me. This is all fiction. Not real life stuff. It's like like we are speculating about real events. I don't really get the point of discussing this.
i think theyre asking about an entirely different story with an entirely different cast using an entirely different set of DBs, still set in the DB ficitional setting, but not where we're used to.
the story is still about the Dragon Balls and set in the same world, so Saiyans and Namekians and Freezas race all still exist. So it wouldnt need a different name, just a subtitle or something, since it would still be "Dragon Ball".
now again I don't think its a good idea, but thats the jist of it.
I guess anything that comes out in some sort of multiverse would be fan fiction since Toriyama has sadly passed away. Technically possible (and already done). I wouldn't recommend it either. So I guess I don't understand OPs need.
Yes. Put that thought away now.
Multiverses have run their course in other IPs and they weren't that cool to begin with. Honestly it would make DB suck to do that.
I think this would be great and the right move. I know I’m in the minority, but Goku is super annoying. Vegeta is much more interesting. I wish they would feature him more.
For me goku is the heart and soul of the series. Without him it’s not the same. Can you have a dragon without him? Yes, but in my opinion the story would be mid
Early Namek & Android saga were some of the best parts of Z. Even if Goku doesn’t radiate MC energy, he can still have scenes like in DB Super hero. Tbh I liked Super hero far more than Broly or BoGs as well, so DB can definitely be above “mid” without Goku. Unpopular opinion I also liked the garlic jr filler saga, which also didn’t have Goku.
I'd go as far as saying early Namek saga is the best part of Dragon Ball as a whole. Goku is a great MC, but Dragon Ball has so many good characters.
Agreed. It’s one of the reasons why Toriyama kept him in besides fans being pissed over Gohan possibly taking over.
> It’s one of the reasons why Toriyama kept him in besides fans being pissed over Gohan possibly taking over. fans supposedly being mad never had anything to do with it.
So like a prequel? I think the general setting could work - but the pressure to tie it back to fan favorite characters would kill it. Best bet would be one that ties back to King Piccolos’ first defeat imo.
I think a turtle vs crane young master roshi style story would be dope as well
YES
It would be nice, but I don't know if it would work. Unfortunately, Dragon Ball was ruined by increasingly exaggerated power levels. Now going back to more human levels would be counterproductive, because people have become badly accustomed to beings who can destroy universes. Going back to people who can lift giant boulders and feel strong because of it would be counterproductive.
Well it’s not meant to appeal to those lames that can’t watch a tv show for what it is and overthink things until they make themselves upset
So on a prequel note. As much hate or jokes we make about killin, roshi, and especially Yamaha. Most people overlook just how powerful these people are as humans. Like let's say no saiyans or aliens existed. These would be our heroes. They are insanely strong. Of course compared to aliens such as saiyans and all the other beings it's low. But people I think sometimes forget that goku isn't one of us in that sense, and they need to be reminded that
I think there are only 2 universes with dragon balls. The 6th and the 7th. The “wish orbs” are only on the planet Namek, which only the 6th and 7th have. Besides that the Super Dragon Balls exist only in those universes too. Not even two sets, just one set divided over both universes. Iirc.
We’ll namekians originally come from another realm entirely than universe 6&7 so it’s possible other universes have dragon balls
[удалено]
Manga
I just discovered Dragon ball without the “DragonBalls” -SandLand- legit feels like love letter to the OG DragonBall arcs and Dragon Quest games… just wholesome adventures, with a little badass that’s too strong for his own good…
Yeah, there are so many fun characters and settings introduced into the franchise and many of them could carry a story on their own. The origins of young Roshi, the misadventures of the Ginyu Force out in space, the "next generation" with Pan and Uub, the Saiyans before their fall etc. Goku is a big part of the franchise but people tend to forget that there were long stretches of the story where he was mostly absent and it was still enjoyable to read. As long as they make these kind of prequel/spin-offs GOOD then that's the important thing.
I never thought of this, a series about young grandpa gohan and muten roshi sounds cool
I always wanted the sequel to Z to revolve around Goten and Trunks picking up the mantle
he is the ultimate template for free story DLC. carefree, always forgiving, always looking to get even stronger, always changing evil people into frenemies (even Freeza has started to come around), always game for random adventure/fights. no one else has that aura/effect in DB. he is too critical to the story.
Yea, there's not that many Dragons left since Beerus nearly extincted them. But if they were going to replace him he should still be a guest occasionally.
Dragon Ball without Goku is Future Trunks' timeline - nearly everyone dies and those still alive are miserable DB without Goku only works if it is set in a different era (ex. Roshi as a young man) or planet altogether (ex. Planet Vegeta)
I would love a prequel with young Roshi & crane tbh, they had some filler scenes in OG dragonball but that’s it Plus it would bring back the kung fu vibe since Roshi wouldn’t have mastered his Turtle wave & would have to use techniques not related to moon destroying Ki blasts.
A lot of people here seem to think so...
The name Dragon Ball is too attached to Goku in my opinion. It's basically his story. But I would love to read or see a spinoff in other universes, even if it's about dragon balls too. But I think the name of the spinoff needs to be different, to really mark the distinction between U7 and that universe. I would personally love to read the stories of Cabba and Caulifla, without any Goku or Vegeta in them.
No, but enough people believe that nonsense to the point where we will never get a series or an arc where Goku isn’t the MC. Plenty of younger characters have loads of potential (Uub, Pan, Goten, Trunks) & it’s not like Goku was always around in our favorite saga of Z either, in fact some of the best parts of Z was when Goku wasn’t around like the early androids & Namek saga. It’s not like they will replace Goku in popularity but does supergirl or superboy replace Superman in popularity ?? Absolutely not, but we deserve to see new stories & new characters fleshed out as more than just side pieces.
Yes, its called Sand Land
*Dragonball* can be the story of Goku without Goku always being at the center of the story. Being the lead protagonist doesn't mean or imply that compelling stories & arcs can't happen without you physically being there. It doesn't mean you always have to be the most important character of that particular situation or be the one to get the win against the big villain. It does not mean or imply that you must be the center of your universe. No disrespect or condescension intended, but it's odd to me how many people struggle to understand this, let alone subscribe to this misguided belief that this series somehow doesn't lend itself well to that. Numerous quality *DB* stories exist where Goku is only mentioned or briefly appears in flashbacks or visions. One of the most successful + influential *DB* stories of all time to date starts off with him dying. And plenty of stories would work just fine even without him being so much as mentioned beyond perhaps a line of dialogue. I accepted long ago that Goku will most likely always be milked for marketing purposes, even when it's at best unnecessary and at worst actively undermines other characters' opportunities to shine or develop organically. Textbook example: Vegeta being robbed of destroying Frieza in *Resurrection F* after both Goku (in Future Trunks' timeline) and Trunks already got to defeat & kill him before. Like it or not, Goku's the franchise's primary cash cow. But that doesn't alter the fact that he is not the sole vital ingredient to quality *DB*. The mythology has grown so much bigger than him alone, and his influence on other characters if felt even when he's not around. Goku's appeal as a character isn't just his presence within the plot at large. It's also his legacy and the impact he has on those around him. Even if he permanently died, his actions & example would echo through *DB* for generations. He's left such a mark on the universe around him that he could never be truly dissociated from it. And even if he'd stayed dead after the Cell arc, there are multiple ways he still could've been involved as the main character and even regularly visit Earth while having his own adventures. You can balance out him doing his own thing with still actively participating in Earth's latest crisis + keeping up with his loved ones. You can have Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, Trunks, Pan, Uub, or others take on bigger roles without sacrificing Goku's main protagonist status. There are plenty of ways to write this without supporting characters getting neglected. It comes down to execution. Sadly, again, I doubt *DB* will go this route in canon anytime soon.
They tried with Gohan and it didn't work.
Only because they didn't commit. It had every opportunity to work, imo
I do not remember why they changed their mind. I still think without Goku and the Dragon Balls just call it something else.
Wernt they going to make gohan the main character after the cell saga but they backed off that idea
Thinking too much about the multiverse is a good way to make any story meaningless
I mean Pokemon have moved on from Ash, although I guess one can argue Pikachu is the equivalent of Goku in Pikachu, but really Ash was the protagonist. So I don't see why DB can't move on from Goku.
GT…
goku is dragon ball dragon ball is goku
Golu is ok but we have too much dragon balls. I would gladly take some plot of all ball being destroyed for good. Does anyone know if manga addressed if there are other sets in different universes?
Maybe it could work but it then again goku is literally the face of the franchise. Thats like ripping the titular character from a franchise they are named after.
I wanna see a show featuring the universe 7 saiyans
Reminds of I miss when Goku was kinda treated as Saitama from One Punch Man. Where he would come later on into fights and be the hero of grace to end things. (Sayain and Namek arc) Now it's kinda overwhelming/predictable. At least for me.
I've always thought this since I was a kid, but I'd love to see some saiyan-less Dragon Ball. Just the humans and Namekians fighting. The Saiyans could be off on an adventure or something as an explanation.
> but there are many other universes out there that also has Dragon Balls no there are not.
How is this something someone (OP) could think? I just don't get how a story so simple is misunderstood with such ridiculous frequency around here.
Because it would be strange if only two universes had them.
That's how it is.
no idea
To be honest, this is the weirdest hypothetical. I mean, are we talking about the same character with just a different name? This makes no sense to me. This is all fiction. Not real life stuff. It's like like we are speculating about real events. I don't really get the point of discussing this.
i think theyre asking about an entirely different story with an entirely different cast using an entirely different set of DBs, still set in the DB ficitional setting, but not where we're used to.
So, entirely different story… let’s call it Mythical Creature Shape.
the story is still about the Dragon Balls and set in the same world, so Saiyans and Namekians and Freezas race all still exist. So it wouldnt need a different name, just a subtitle or something, since it would still be "Dragon Ball". now again I don't think its a good idea, but thats the jist of it.
I guess anything that comes out in some sort of multiverse would be fan fiction since Toriyama has sadly passed away. Technically possible (and already done). I wouldn't recommend it either. So I guess I don't understand OPs need.
Yes. Put that thought away now. Multiverses have run their course in other IPs and they weren't that cool to begin with. Honestly it would make DB suck to do that.
I think this would be great and the right move. I know I’m in the minority, but Goku is super annoying. Vegeta is much more interesting. I wish they would feature him more.