I cycle and I am also a MAMIL I also cycle in groups.
The lot you met were what is known as a collective of cunts.
What they were doing is out of order and although they are not obliged to on a narrow road they should go single file, my lot would.
Some of them are truly shocking I was stuck behind one for a few miles the other week he insisted on riding near the center line whenever the solid whites disappeared, ironically 10 minutes earlier a guy pulled over to let everyone past. It's not all cyclists but some are terrible.
>they are not obliged to on a narrow road they should go single file, my lot would.
Highway code, rule 66:
>be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so
*You can ride two abreast* (not more)
*Allow cars to overtake (for example, BY MOVING INTO SINGLE FILE OR STOPPING)*
Rule 68:
> You MUST NOT ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner
Rule 72:
>Road positioning. When riding on the roads, there are two basic road positions you should adopt, depending on the situation.
>1) Ride in the centre of your lane, to make yourself as clearly visible as possible, in the following situations
> on quiet roads or streets – if a faster vehicle comes up behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake, if you can do so safely
> 2) When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so whilst keeping at least 0.5 metres away, and further where it is safer, from the kerb edge. Remember that traffic on most dual carriageways moves quickly. Take extra care crossing slip roads.
MOVE TO THE LEFT TO ENABLE THEM TO OVERTAKE
Cyclists need to read the highway code because most don't have a fucking clue and act like they know it all.
On my cycle to work, it's all country lanes past a certain point. So at certain points I'll pull into a driveway if I see a queue forming, or if I see a large van or any sort of lorry. I cycle at a set time every day so I get a few regulars I see daily and for the most part it all works well. I'm quite lucky that only one companies vans insist on being driven by dicks, lol
As a former tractor driver, thank you. Modern tractors can do about 34mph, but when they're heavily laden they can't accelerate quickly. If I come up behind a cyclist and it's not safe to overtake immediately, chances are I won't be able to overtake unless the cyclist pulls over to let me. The distance needed to get a tractor and trailer up to speed and safely past is almost never available on a country road. I've been stuck behind a cyclist doing less than 10mph for over 5 miles because he wouldn't pull over. It was an A road and cars couldn't get past me so there was an almighty tailback. I pulled over in the one place large enough for me to do so, but then ended up back behind the cyclist within a couple of minutes!
I appreciate cyclists who do this
By pulling in, it enables cars to pass you rather than being stuck behind, letting the driver get pissed off and pulling a reckless overtake out of frustration
While drivers shouldn't be doing dangerous overtakes, a cyclist pulling over for 15 seconds prevents it completely
While all correct
It’s worth mentioning the distinction between the road traffic act, and the Highway Code
One is the law and must be followed, the other is a (very thick) advisory pamphlet of best practices mixed in with the law
Not everything you mentioned is a legal requirement
>Not everything you mentioned is a legal requirement
No, but anything in the highway code using "must / must not" is legal requirement, such as "You MUST NOT ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner".
Also, if I had an accident because a cyclist wasn't following the highway code, and I was, liability would still be put on them. Especially as I have front and rear dash cams, so I'd have evidence.
On top of that, police can still prosecute you for not following the highway code as riding dangerously or without due care and attention, especially if such acts lead to an accident.
Incorrect. The Highway Code can and has been used in a court of law to demonstrate the standard to which a driver should adhere. Even the “should” parts are a strong recommendation and you will need a good reason to disobey.
The highway code is not just "a very thick advisory pamphlet." Anything with MUST or MUST NOT _is the law_ and will include a reference to the relevant legislation.
Yes indeed, but the book itself is not the law, it *advises* you of the law (some of the time)
A lot of people think the whole book is just a copy of the law
It is effectively a form of secondary legislation as it can and has been used to support prosecutions in court, and it is published by the Sec of State for Transport.
Really? It’s been 7 days since I even thought about this post 😂
On a public forum post seen by thousands of people in the last 7 days, I, and I alone, could be the *only* person to report you at risk of harm?
Get over yourself man, I don’t care enough to mess with you 😂
How do they get you from the right hand drivers seat to where ever you’ve pulled over assuming it’s on the left?
Your story doesn’t quite stack up to reality.
I hate riding on the road.
But spitting from the drivers seat risks it not reaching outside especially with the air rushing in the open window.
Can understand a passenger reaching you.
I’ve never been spat at while cycling.
I wonder why they went for you.
>The entitlement of motorists is incredible.
It's not every motorist, just like it's not every cyclist, though many cyclists are just as entitled as many motorists. People who group everyone together are the reason why cyclists get a bad rep in the first place, and then you do that same thing to motorists?
The irony and hypocrisy are incredible.
While mostly correct and reasonable. This bit isn't correct.
>*You can ride two abreast* (not more)
UK law is largely permissive. In that things are permitted, unless there's a law that restricts or bans it.
Just because the HC clarified that 2 abreast is permitted, absolutely does not mean that more than 2 abreast isn't permitted. Cyclist are allowed to use the full width of the lane, and if that means shortening a group by going 3 abreast within a lane? Then that is not illegal, it doesn't break any HC rule or laws.
It does sound like, from the perspective of the driver, this group were very entitled and making it as difficult as possible. Maybe they were just cunts.
When it is safe to do so, is used in those rules though. It's worded to let the cyclist decide when that is. When it is safe to do so can look very different from the perspective of a vulnerable cyclist, compared to a protected driver.
What looks like a cheeky opportunity for a quick overtake to a driver, can be a heart in mouth moment for a cyclist. Highlighted by a number of incidents caught on camera, where a cheeky overtake has turned into a car plowing into the back of cyclists at speed.
I’m a cyclist and the summer twits round here go 2 abreast on the straights and single file in the corners.
Then show disdain you’ve not overtaken by the time they’ve got on the straight and fanned out again.
I didn't really mind either way! But I did think if they wanted me to pass, which it seems they did since following clearly didn't please them, then moving over to give me passing room would have made sense.
You’re assuming that people who ride like absolute bell-ends are able to also think critically and apply common sense to a situation. Which they clearly demonstrated they were unable to do in the manner they rode and interacted with you.
You did everything right. The one learning point to take from this is what you already said you do - don’t get wound up by other people’s ridiculous behaviour.
Well done you for wanting to make sure you hadn’t committed a silly mistake though, it shows far more decency than that bunch of twats did to you.
>then moving over to give me passing room would have made sense.
It doesn't just make sense, it is required in the highway code. Not that most Cyclists give a fuck about educating themselves on the highway code.
As a slight qualification to your comment, Rule 66 asks (but does not require) cyclists to allow drivers to overtake when they “feel it is safe to let them do so”. Based on OP’s description of the road, it doesn’t sound like overtaking would have been safe, so I think as a cyclist in this situation I would have taken the middle of the lane and waited until a straight bit of road before moving over.
That’s not to say these particular cyclists weren’t being idiots by weaving all over the place and acting aggressively.
“if it is safe” does a lot of legwork in leaving room for interpretation - as you point out, it does not mean you must immediately pull over if a boy racer in an Audi starts crawling up your arse
Sounds like it would have been safer for them to stop, which is also mentioned in rule 66.
Also, being in the middle is purely to make you easier to be seen by other road users and is advised on *quiet roads or streets*. If a car is right behind you and has clearly seen you, then you have no reason to stay in the middle, unless there is someonthing unsafe in the left such as a pothole, manhole cover (in the wet), etc.
>Rule 72:
>Road positioning. When riding on the roads, there are two basic road positions you should adopt, depending on the situation.
>1) Ride in the centre of your lane, to make yourself as clearly visible as possible, in the following situations
> on quiet roads or streets – if a faster vehicle comes up behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake, if you can do so safely
> 2) When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so whilst keeping at least 0.5 metres away, and further where it is safer, from the kerb edge. Remember that traffic on most dual carriageways moves quickly. Take extra care crossing slip roads.
Ride in the centre of your lane... *on quiet roads or streets.*
When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so.
Sorry, but moving to the left every time a car approaches from behind, regardless of whether it would be safe for them to overtake, is a very bad idea, because it encourages unsafe overtaking. Rule 72 (the bit which you have left out) advises cyclists to ride in the centre of the lane at the approach to junctions or road narrowings “where it would be unsafe for drivers to overtake you”.
Anyway, I’m glad OP had the patience not to try to overtake when it wasn’t safe to do so.
>Rule 72 (the bit which you have left out) advises cyclists to ride in the centre of the lane at the approach to junctions or road narrowings “where it would be unsafe for drivers to overtake you”.
I left it out because it wasn't relevant. OP mentioned no junction or road narrowing. They said it was a narrow country road but still had two distinct lanes.
>Anyway, I’m glad OP had the patience not to try to overtake when it wasn’t safe to do so.
It wasn't safe because of the cyclists' behaviour.
I’d say that it would be quite odd to interpret Rule 72, 3rd bullet, as applying only when the road gets narrow, but not when the road is already narrow.
I also think we’re interpreting OP’s description of the road differently. Neither of us were there, but for me a curvy road which isn’t wide enough to safely accommodate a cyclist and two cars side-by-side doesn’t sound like a stretch of road where would want to try to overtake even a single cyclist.
Riding in the middle of the lane is called the [Primary Position](https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/media/%5Bfile%3Amime%5D/roadpositioning-3.jpg) for a reason. It’s not just about being seen but about claiming the road space for safety reasons. At any pinch points like pedestrian refuge islands or if the road lanes are under 3.65m (standard lane width on an A-road) it is best to ride primary if there is oncoming traffic to close overtakes. Drivers tend to misjudge 1.5m passing distance upto 30mph (and 2m over 30mph) and overtake whilst attempting to stay in the lane. Riding primary, and 2-abreast makes it clear that the driver behind has to wait until there is a gap in oncoming traffic to overtake in the opposite lane, the same as they would if passing another car.
If the lanes are wide (around 4m) then I’ll stay secondary to allow cars to overtake without having to cross into the opposite lane because usually then there’s width for it to be done safely.
I’ve tried always riding in secondary position but it turns out there are a lot of really bad drivers out there so I now I decide when it’s appropriate to allow an overtake for my own safety.
It really isn't, you just stated the passages relevant, "if it is safe to do so" means it's entirely upto them and how safe they feel. There are many cyclists who don't feel safe with cars because the majority don't follow the highway code and allow enough room, as stated in the highway code. Not that most road users give a fuck about educating themselves on the highway code.
*fixed that last bit for you.
>"if it is safe to do so" means it's entirely upto them and how safe they feel.
Where exactly does it say that cyclists can just judge it based on "how safe they *feel*"?
Just because some cars down leave enough room, doesn't give cyclists the right to start denying all cars the room required to overtake safely by staying in the middle of the lane. "If it is safe to do so" does not mean, if you feel like it.
I suggest you go back and read rule 66, the last sentence of bullet point 2 in particular. "be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake when you feel it is safe to let them do so."
Notice the word "feel" and the word "you" from the cyclists perspective, I'd say that's exactly what it says.
I cycle frequently and drive as well but some of these groups are proper cunts indeed. There is even one 60 mph stretch that has a dedicated cycle path but no, let's hold up HGVs and nervous drivers etc by cycling on the road which has an awkward bend in it to make overtaking especially risky...
I very much doubt there is a 60 mph road anywhere in the UK with a dedicated cycle path. More likely it's a shared use path and unless it was constructed less than 12 months ago, it is going to be overgrown probably full of loose chippings, litter broken glass etc.
An awkward bend never makes overtaking risky. It may prohibit safe overtaking. The person overtaking, when they do not know that it is safe to do so, makes overtaking risky.
It's good to see this. Where I live if they spot a car behind them (such as myself), the other will often ride out next to them nearing the second lane, so I can't overtake. Sometimes I can understand it, if the road is narrow and they're looking out for themselves. But often this isn't the case, and I can't understand why they would do this other than to see if they can get a rise out of certain drivers.
I always like to stay a car or two length behind cyclists until it’s safe and I usually go across the other side of the road completely to give them as much space as I can.
I’ve had cyclists groups deliberately swerve over, yell, swear, shout at me, ride in the middle of the road.
Going in single file makes the group longer and harder to pass.
What they were doing was preventing an unsafe overtake on a narrow road. It is in the Highway Code.
You say yourself that the road was narrow, and sight lines were compromised.
Agreed. The problem with cycling 2 abreast on a narrow road is that what would be an okay passing gap if single file, becomes a not-okay gap when 2 abreast. But many drivers will still overtake anyway, and would be correct in their defence that they gave as much room as they physically could while doing so.
The argument of it allowing drivers to pull in quicker is pretty flimsy as well, as it will save maybe 2 metres if 2 cyclists cycled 2 abreast vs single file, and if that 2m matters than the overtake wasn't safe to begin with.
So yeah I'm of the opinion that considerate cyclists will cycle single file on narrow roads, at least when approached from behind by traffic
It’s really nice to hear from a group of cyclists like yourself 👍 I’ve had this few times when lived in Stamford lincs. One time was on a long country rd. it was a red route. I came upon this pair side by side chatting away 10 mph. They looked over at me carried on. I followed 10 mph for few miles thinking why don’t they go single to let me pass. By this time I had four cars behind pulling out behind me looking to pass. I’m thinking this could end badly. And long stretch opened up I over took them I had my passenger window down all I said was lads you could have let me pass. Well I got fuck you were will do what we want dickhead. I was really annoyed and told them to piss off and quickly drove on. I’m my mirror and I could hear every car who was behind me blaring horns I saw the cyclists flipping them of. I just thought no need we all share the road. But again it’s nice to hear not all cyclists are like that. Thank you 🙏🏼 👏👏👏👏👏
Out of interest why can’t you just wear normal clothes. Are you trying to emulate your Tour de France hero’s and need the tight fitting clothes at get a better aero dynamic slipstream.
Because they're way more comfortable for riding long distances. Also a lot of those cyclists put some serious effort into staying fit so why slow yourself down with baggy clothes?
I always find this criticism strange. Like is it that unusual to dress for a sport? Runners can wear appropriate gear without being asked if they are trying to emulate Mo Farah. People play football in full kits recreationally all the time.
Have you seen road bike saddles!
Padded shorts are a must. As for why, probably for the same reason people wear team shirts to football even though they're not playing.
Most cycling jerseys have a handy pouch at the back.
About 2 car lengths, perhaps more? I wanted room to gain speed if I did get a chance to pass safely, so I left a decent gap. More than I'd leave a car in normal traffic.
On behalf of all decent cyclists (we do exist), fuck those guys.
Seems you did everything right, thank you for that it’s good to know some people are willing to wait for a decent gap. I always try to let people know when a gap is coming up so they can more easily get past, although I have equal right to be there I don’t like to hold people up if I can avoid it.
I never understand the points of views of people like those of this group.
I was riding my bike earlier down a fairly narrow road checked my shoulder and saw a HGV turning out behind me, coming my way. I jumped onto the path the first drop kerb I saw, driver gave me a thank you beep and was 100m ahead of me in no time, easier for me, easier for them.
I had something very similar last week, only two cyclists but a very narrow lane (no centre lines) and they were all over the place. Eventually one wanted to wave me past but the width of the road and how far off the verge they were meant I could not give them a comfortable 1m gap as required.
They eventually pulled over when I got closer to them and I stopped and explained that I couldn’t give them the separation required comfortably.
I started out friendly and one thanked me for my consideration, however, the other one decided that I was the *unt. I did suggest that having seen plenty of head cam footage, I didn’t want to be filmed getting too close when they tried to wave me through and get caned for it. Ffs, I pointed out that they had stopped to talk to me, how about pulling over for one car on a country lane at under 20mph.🤦♂️
I cycle and drive and I can’t fucking stand it when a cyclist waves me past. I’ll decide when it’s safe for me to overtake, thanks. Because when I have that head on and kill someone it won’t be them who has to explain why ‘a cyclist waved me on so I thought it must be safe to overtake’ isn’t really a great defence in a court of law.
Same for people flashing headlights to be helpful in stupid situations like when you’re indicating to turn and they’re heading straight on but they want you to turn ahead of them even though there’s nothing behind them. Then they come to a complete stop and act like you’re the prick because you haven’t moved anywhere. It’s very nice of them but I always think, you concentrate on what you’re doing and I’ll concentrate on what I’m doing and then we all get home safely and I don’t have to interact with a fucking spud.
This does my box in as well. Like i know people are just trying to be nice but i'll decide when it's safe for me to go not you. if everyone would just please take the right of way when its theirs we'd all probably get on a lot better.
I live in a very rural area, and sometimes the perspective of sitting high in the saddle allows you to see what following traffic cannot. It is no different that a car giving you a flash to allow you to turn in front of them when they have priority.
I also drove and have held a licence for more years than I have not, so I don't waive anyone through mindlessly, and am fully aware that if I do so in the wrong moment, it is most likely I that will come off worst. Having said that, I take your point about it being your responsibility and am never surprised or judgemental about anyone that decides to ignore my gesture, but it is meant in good faith.
And to answer the OP if they get this far in the thread, agree with the top response, the people you encountered were grade A bike wankers... give them space and keep moving, people like that only serve to create animosity between road users, and most are not likely to change no matter what you say or do.
Some people are just shit at cycling.
I've been out with groups like this and it's awful, just ends up with a long line of pissed off people behind you which is never good. I distinctly remember one twat who insisted on riding three abreast and randomly swinging out of the group without signalling or checking.
The group I generally ride with, ride in a tight two up formation and single out where needed. Keep the groups below a certain size so they're not strung out and clearly signal to drivers.
Generally no issues from drivers, though you always get one or two maniacs.
If you end up with any form of queue behind you and you don't pull over to alleviate said queue then you are breaking the highway code. Please spread the word. Cyclists are unaware and the police are absent.
Rule 66? Are you talking about this:
"Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so"
So first one is saying don't be a dickhead if someone's actively overtaking you. Second one is referring to large or slow moving vehicles. Doesn't say anything about cyclists
I've had it myself with some cyclist angrily waving me to overtake him on a narrow road not far before a turn so I can't see.
I'm not overtaking when you tell me to because you don't like me behind you. I don't like you cycling on a 50mph road but I have to put up with it, and so will you.
From everything you described they were a bunch of idiots. Not serious cyclists.
If they were experienced and riding in a group they would take up no more space than an estate car and would be easy to overtake.
They would also appreciate you waiting for a safe spot to overtake.
Groups like this have become more common since covid. Lots of people started cycling on quiet roads so didn’t learn how to ride properly once it got busy again. They are also the same idiots that think the recent Highway Code changes mean they own the road and can do what they want.
I’ve been a club cyclist all my life, since covid I’ve stopped riding with clubs because there are too many idiots like this that make it more dangerous for me to ride in a group than on my own.
It’s a shame but hey it just seems to be the way society is going these days.
That makes sense, thank you! I honestly wasn't sure if the space they occupied was normal, I can't say I've ever come across more than two cyclists. They were what I'd describe as loosely grouped; sometimes two abreast, sometimes not. Varying speeds so that at times I could have probably fit my car in the spaces they left, but at other times not. One dude doing his best impression of a cartoon snake slithering side to side. They were in all honesty quite erratic which made the idea of passing them even less appealing, cos what if they decided to space out more while I'm going past, or what if the unpredictable swerving put someone in front of me? I'm a big believer in not making moves unless I know I'm keeping everyone around me safe, especially when I'm manning the biggest vehicle (which isn't very often in my fiat 500 lol). So I just chilled out behind them. Wrong move, apparently!
At the end of the day it's your driving license not theirs and you'll pass when you deem it's safe.
You did nothing wrong and I would prob have done the same. Although I probably would of flipped them the bird back.
90% of cyclists who ride in groups like that are cunts. Think they own the road and however much space you give them isn't enough.
The only thing you did wrong was not have it out with them
Apart from the single file comment (if they go single file it would take you longer to pass them) you didn't do anything wrong. You get good and bad cyclists as well as good and bad motorists and unfortunately these sound like the 'all the gear and no idea' type.
When riding in a group we would normally wave a car to come past if we could see the road ahead was clear or pull into a layby or a passing place as we want you behind us as much as you want to be stuck behind us.
Yeah I didn't consider the whole not-going-single-file thing, never thought about it that way, so the benefit to posting this is I've learnt that! In the moment I was just kinda thinking if they wanted me to pass they coulda scooted over to give me more space to, hadn't really thought about it beyond that.
I hope that as you were passing them, you took the opportunity to give your windscreen a right good skoosh and wipe to make sure you could see down the road clearly.
Hard to say without video. But with a group like this, going single file does more harm than good. Each bike is about 1.9 metres long + a 50cm gap between them would make a group of 5 cyclists 7.2 metres long, or 1.6 car lengths if they're double file vs 11.5 metres long or about 2.5 car lengths if single file. Which means you'll be on the oncoming lane for more time.
Going on what you're saying though, it doesn't seem like you did anything wrong. If one of them keeps swerving to the centre line, then going for an overtake is pretty dangerous at the best of times, doing it when you can't see far ahead enough to complete an overtake is a recipe for disaster.
That's fair! I guess my logic was just that if they wanted me to pass they could have given me more room on such a narrow lane. And from their reaction to me I was assuming that they're mad I didn't pass? So my thinking was, "if you want me to go around you, give me space to do it!!"
I wish I could explain the swerving. He was literally just snaking side to side whilst he cycled. Hence why i was even more hesitant to pass than I'd have been otherwise, because I felt like I needed to move aaaaaall the way over in case he veered in front of me.
Swerving is probably something to do with the "new" highway code which tells cyclists to take a more dominant position then move to the left when a faster vehicle comes up behind them. Which some cyclists have taken to mean either "ride down the centre of the road at all costs" or "swerve around like an idiot"
or that cyclist was just a tw\*t. take your pick lol
Skilled/experienced cyclists know to cycle in a way that doesn't hinder faster vehicles.
Sounds like you came across a bunch of clowns "all the gear, no idea", who cannot even go on a simple cycle without causing a scene. Sadly far too many of these idiots on our roads.
It sounds like they're so used to drivers being impatient pricks that they just defaulted to believing that you were an impatient prick, even though you gave no such indication. Not your fault. If they want more drivers to be courteous then they need to give credit where credit is due!
Unfortunately, not everyone thinks or behaves how we would hope kind, considerate, and well raised human beings might operate.
Most people are decent human beings, but some people’s behaviour is unfathomable.
Once you have reviewed and checked yourself (which clearly you already did here) you can walk away knowing you had good intent and did your best.
You did not deserve the head shakes or hand signs. From what you describe, this group sounded immature, self absorbed and out of order.
Maybe send a little hope out to them that they might learn kinder, more mature, and skilful ways of operating. They are lucky you were so patient with them.
Thanks for continuing to show caring concern, to learn and course correct, and the ability to self-introspect. These are very decent human qualities you have!
They knew they were in the wrong... they projected this onto you "teaching them a lesson" by deliberately tailing them and not passing... They heckled you because they assumed you were riled by them. They probably enjoy cars trying and struggling to pass.
In reality you were out having a nice drive. Their world must be very sad.
This bullshit is why ‘road cycling’ as a group sport needs banning from the roads. Some of these guys are so arrogant and entitled, acting like they are saviours of the world on the back of the green agenda, when in reality they aren’t making an environmentally-conscious travel choice but hogging the road as a taxpayer-funded arena for their sporting pursuits.
I had a similar one I think it was the summer before last. 3 of them in lycra on a 40mph road between 2 towns riding side by side with maybe 100 cars in the queue behind them. They were opposite a cycle path that was rebuild costing apparently a few million and is regularly cleaned by the council to keep usable. So eventually after a few miles I was the car behind them. Two were side by side a little ahead of the last one maybe 50-100 yards behind them. I went to overtake the last one and he pulled out maybe 3 yards further to the right to block me, and put himself at risk of being hit, so I bibbed the horn (a short bib, not a long angry one) to tell him I was there. The three of them started giving me grief, swearing at me and flipping me off. They stopped at some lights at a crossroad and I pulled up next to them and they started giving me more abuse so I got out and started walking towards them. There was a gap in traffic going over the crossroad so they cycled off through the red light in front of the next traffic coming through to run away. I was only going to tell them why I bibbed the horn. I saw the biggest one the next day who looked like the ringleader and said something to him. He just put his head down, turned around and didnt say anything. Thought he was a big man when he thought a group of them could intimidate me but soon showed his true colours.
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It's intimidating when you're cycling and a car is lingering behind as you're constantly having to adjust / prepare for an overtake and all road cyclists have horror stories of bad overtakes.
For the record, you weren't in all likelihood doing anything wrong and were being tarred with the same brush by a bunch of FKWs. (Full Kit Wankers).
A good group ride will be aware of a car behind and maintain a wide and short group, so you can overtake (always fully on the opposite side) quickly.
>maintain a wide and short group,
They should be going single file or stopping.
Edit: downvoted by people who clearly haven't read the highway code. This isn't an opinion, people, it's a rule!
Absolutely not.
Single file means the car is on the opposite carriageway for longer. Given that motor vehicles must give cyclists the same room when overtaking as they do another motor vehicle (thereby being all the way over in the opposite carriageway) the shorter group makes it much safer and more convenient.
As to stopping... why? Cyclists have as much right to the road as any other)
Standard stopping for the same reason you’ll see at least 2 comments on every post here asking about why to do when someone is tailgating you is “let them pass, pull over if you have to, everyone is safer”
Even if there wasn't specific rules about it in the highway code (there is), it's kind of just common courtesy for slower vehicles to let faster vehicles pass? I don't see why that would be a contentious point?
It's a narrow, windy country road, where there isn't enough space to safely overtake a few cyclists travelling at 20mph. It may be national speed limit, but I doubt it is safe to travel at much more 20mph
So in NZ they have these signs I wish we had here.
They're basically big angry signs that remind you to pull the f*** over if you are causing a tailback. Doesn't matter what vehicle you are in or what speed you are going. It is expected, as standard, that *you* stop when it is safe to do so and let everyone past instead of forcing them to crawl behind you or overtake you.
The same actually applies here, we just don't have the signs and we therefore get a lot more a**holes.
Yes, you have a right to use the road. No you do not have the right to obstruct the flow of traffic when it's within your power to assist it. It doesn't matter if you are cycling, driving a tractor, a mobile crane, no one cares. If there's a layby pull over.
Highway code, rule 66:
>be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so
Go read up on the highway code. Cyclists have whatever rights are in the highway code. No more. No less.
If they can't be arsed to read up and educate themselves on the rules of the road, they don't deserve to be on it. Car drivers go through a theory test, lots of lessons, and a practical test before being allowed unaccompanied on the roads, but cyclists just jump out there and cause hazards for other road users because of their blind ignorance? It's BS.
Rule 66 of the Highway Code is an advisory, not a law.
The reason you need less training to cycle than to drive a car is:
> Everyone suffers when road collisions occur, whether they are physically injured or not. But those in charge of vehicles that can cause the greatest harm in the event of a collision bear the greatest responsibility to take care and reduce the danger they pose to others. This principle applies most strongly to drivers of large goods and passenger vehicles, vans/minibuses, cars/taxis and motorcycles.
While educating everyone should be the priority, the risk of a novice biker pedalling along on a 15kg bike is hardly at the same level of a novice driver in a 1500kg car.
>the risk of a novice biker pedalling along on a 15kg bike is hardly at the same level of a novice driver in a 1500kg car.
And if a cyclist does something stupid and causes a driver to swerve and hit something else, it's no longer about a 15kg bike, is it? The driver could swerve their 1500kg car into a wall, barrier, another car, a pedestrian, etc. all to avoid hitting the uneducated, ignorant cyclist.
A cyclist on a 15kg bike can easily cause serious injury or even death to other road users.
Educating ALL road users should be a top priority. One stupid road user can have a knocking effect that can cause huge damage to both vehicles and people. And when a cyclist caused damage to a car, where do those repairs come from? Cyclists don't have insurance. And we should travel to go through our own because it puts our premium up, and we end up paying for it. Cyclists need to be educated and held more accountable for their actions.
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6510355cbf7c1a0011bb4623/image4.svg](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6510355cbf7c1a0011bb4623/image4.svg)
\^This graph shows the number of other road users killed in collisions in Great Britain, by vehicle type, where known, in 2022. Motorists caused the deaths of 685 other road users, whereas in the same timeframe cyclists caused 2 deaths of others. Even pedestrians caused more deaths (7) in the same time. While forcing cyclists to have insurance / undertake more training may help reduce their risk to others, at the end of the day drivers still cause the most deaths of others by far. The need to educate motorists and hold them accountable for their actions still massively outweighs the need to do the same to cyclists.
And does this account for the fact that if there is no evidence, i.e. a dash cam, the law generally sides with the more vulnerable road user, which is complete BS. How many of those incidents caused by cars were not actually caused by cars but were labelled as such due to a lack of evidence?
But yes, motorists would still have the higher numbers regardless, just because there is a higher percentage of motorists on the road.
Yes, it only includes statistics from collisions where it is known.
>The following looks at the other party involved in fatal collisions, where this can be determined.
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65103564bf7c1a000dbb462a/image5.svg](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65103564bf7c1a000dbb462a/image5.svg)
\^This graph shows the same statistics per billion passenger miles, and shows motorists still cause over 3x as many fatalities per mile than cyclists.
I also don't see how the law generally protecting the more vulnerable is BS?
>I also don't see how the law generally protecting the more vulnerable is BS?
It's not about protecting the more vulnerable. It's about finding the guilty party after an accident that I am referring to as BS. A cyclist does something wrong, causes an accident, everyone is OK but a car driver now has a car with a grands worth of damage and even though the cyclist was at fault, the law blames the car driver and they have to pay out of pocket for the repairs? Remind me who that is "protecting"?
‘How many of those incidents were caused by a very statistically improbable, make believe situation that I just made up in my head’
Fuck me some people are so bigoted and full of hate 😂
You said it yourself. Car drivers have to have a licence, cyclists (rightly) don't. They use the road by right and that right cannot be revoked. By definition they have more right to the road than drivers, as do pedestrians and horse riders. I suggest you get used to this fact.
>By definition they have more right to the road than drivers
What definition is that?
Highway code, Section 61:
Section 61 covers cycle routes and other facilities for cyclists. If cycle routes are available cyclists should make use of them
Their rights can be revoked and slowly are by the introduction of cycle lanes. Cyclists have no inherent "right" to the road. Cyclists use roads due to the lack of a better option where there are no cycle lanes as the only other option is footpaths, which causes a hazard to pedestrians.
Edit: Looking at your profile, I see you are a cyclist and clearly an entitled one at that. I'm not putting forward opinions, I'm using the highway code to state facts, and people still argue. Says everything you need to know about cyclists, doesn't it?
Introduction of cycle lanes does not revoke a cyclist's right to use the road. In the UK cycle lanes exist purely for the benefit (if they benefit anyone). Never has a cycle lane been created for the benefit of motorists. The presence of a cycle lane or shared use path does not convert a road into a motorway.
Because it's safer. It's always obvious when you're holding a vehicle up for a protracted period so you're much better off letting them past as soon as possible. Even people who think they're Miguel Indurain are at best getting up to 25mph on a flat stretch, which is likely to be a lot slower than a car will travel. I've never understood the not stopping thing, let the vehicle that could kill you past. No one cares about your Strava.
The same reason tractors stop. It is illegal, against the highway code, NOT to stop or pull over to alleviate a queue you are creating.
This is why cyclists are hated so much...This "why should I stop" entitlement on top of a holier-than-thou attitude with zero consideration for others, ugh, absolutely disgusting.
Even if it wasn't ***specifically in the highway code*** to pull over and alleviate queues, it would **still** be covered by the "be considerate to other road users" rule. Creating queus and not alleviating them when safe to do so is inconsiderate entitled and egotistical behaviour.
Of course. 🙂. Roadies sneer at commuter cyclists and rarely give the INR as we're beneath them. 😋
(I'm kidding nice roadies. You know the ones I mean though)
(INR = Imperceptible Nod of Recognition)
Whenever I'm out in the countryside on my bike (20 year old no name shitter) wearing a pair of old dad shorts and supermarket trainers, and I see a lycra clad nob coming the other way on a biker worth twice as much as my car I always smile, give a little wave and wish them a good afternoon. They hate it and stare aggressively forward avoiding eye contact.
The only time you are excused from waving is when you hit terminal velocity down the local hill, or if the road has turned into the surface of the moon. Other riders that don’t wave just give me the hump and they are worse at this time of year as the Zwift bears come out of hibernation and back onto the roads.
Haha yes. Love riding my old mountain bike (its old, don't know how old) with dirt on it and a slightly bent front fork in jeans, t-shirt and shades and seeing some wanker on some £2000 carbon fiber thing in full lycra poser gear coming the other way desperately pretending that I don't exist.
Typical cyclist behavior. Do not expect cyclists to be normal road users because 99% of them think they own the road and you're obligated to let them do whatever stupid thing they are doing without complaining or overtaking them too hard. You did nothing wrong.
> Do not expect drivers to be normal road users because 99% of them think they own the road and you're obligated to let them do whatever stupid thing they are doing without complaining
The sheer number of car drivers who think give way lines are suggestions, or block junctions, or park on double yellows…
In my experience that is just the attitude of most cyclists. From what you said you did nothing wrong. Just ignore the morons and move on with your life mate.
They behave very strangely in groups. Our village is on a well-work local route used by competitive cyclists, and we have a 20 mph limit. Our village has is at the bottom of a slight hill, which means that competitive cyclists can easily be going over 30 when then enter the village.
The road is quite narrow, and they do get quite annoyed if they find you ahead of them doing 20, since there is no space for them to safely overtake.
A group that chooses to ride on country lanes are twats full stop. You want some exercise get a mountain bike and go ride the trails in the countryside. Don’t fuck up everyone’s day just because you can!
Got stuck behind a pack like this a while back. They were taking up more than half the width of the road! One kept waving his arm like he wanted me to overtake, but I couldn't as there simply wasn't room. He got rather cross about it.
As a cyclist, it sounds like they were ass holes.
I don't like cars that sit behind and don't overtake for ages, but on the other hand I don't swerve erratically all over the lane to the point where someones would be concerned overtaking me (or the bunch I was in)
Yeah, pretty much this. I ride, and I drive. Speaking as a cyclist, you did the right thing. Sounds like they were being dicks. If you can't safely get past, then don't.
You did nothing wrong. I’ve always been patient but a bunch of these idiots came up behind me whilst I had stopped at a Zebra crossing for a pedestrian. As this disturbed their peloton I got lots of “F#%ing BMW” driver comments as they passed me then most of them stopping and some continuing despite the pedestrian.
“F#%ing BMW” comments then turned into “oh he’s got a point” as they realised they were the douche bags.
The type you encountered are wee boys out playing and tend to try and outcunt each other to show off. Often seen blocking pavements outside coffee shops too.
There are some things you'll just never know the answer to.
I've had it with cars too, I've had someone aggressively beep and gesture when I was in front and slowed to turn right. Which wouldnt be so bad, maybe I gave him a fright, except I always indicate before slowing, and indeed indicated for a reasonable distance on this road as the turn was unfamiliar to me, and there was no one else behind or in front of us to worry about, and i only slowed for a few seconds before i turned out of his way. He was so aggressive I assumed my indicator must be out but I checked when I stopped... Nope.
There was another mystery beeping incident near my house, turning right from a standstill at traffic lights, the car behind me beeped *a.g.r.e.s.s.i.v.e.l.y* as I turned, I glanced in the mirror and him and his passenger were staring at me like I just ran over their puppy.
But the light was green. It's a corner I knew well and it's perfectly legal to turn right. I started away as the light went green so there was no delay. I had passengers myself who verified the light was indeed green and I hadn't had a stroke. We definitely hadn't run over any puppies. Once again I did check the indicator was working. I have *no idea* what the hell happened.
These were a few years apart, in different countries, in different cars, and in both cases I had passengers to confirm I didn't imagine the beeping/ commit an offense.
I'm always very grateful if the car following me leaves me a bit more space (although it doesn't happen often in London) keep doing what you are doing.
Guy swerving out was riding defensively. He was probably nervous of cars passing aggressively & trying to prevent it. If he had a mirror he's serious but not in an I wanna go fast sense, more in a I quote health & safety regs down the pub type.
Guy at the back glaring, probably nervous because you can sense a car behind you when you cycle & it can be unnerving, I don't think this is talked about much.
You're in a catch 22 where the guy at the back wanted you to pass & the guy at the front was claiming the road in a way that stopped you, so you were trapped. Sounded like you did the best you could.
Maybe you were closer to them than you thought would be the only learning point. Without cycling yourself it's hard to sense. 2 seconds probably isn't a big enough gap around nervous cyclists because they'll stop a lot quicker than you will. That's the only reason I could think a bird was offered or maybe you floored it as you passed & them?
Some people don't like that...
> Cycling side by side, one dude just kept swerving out to the centre line, basically dominating the full width of the lane.
To take curves optimally and to prevent overtaking when it’s not safe.
> I'd have had to pull completely into the opposing lane to pass safely.
OK? Yes?
The constant looking over the shoulder is to check whether you’re going to overtake, and the reason they do it is because they reckon it’s safe enough for you to overtake. It’s confusing when someone has room to overtake and for some reason does not. It sounds like you were being very cautious, which is generally a good move.
The reason they flipped a bird is because the thought you were trying to intimidate them by driving slowly behind them.
Miscommunication.
People on bikes can ride side by side. I can’t tell exactly what situation, but by moving out into the road it simply could have been they were deterring an over take as they saw it as risky.
“Thinning out” makes your pass harder and therefore more risky. It also encourages close passes, which again is why riders often stay doubled up - the priority being “my safety, your safety, my convenience, your convenience”
As for the glaring, again I don’t know, but you should leave the same stopping distance for a bike as any other road user. At 20 that’s 12m so 2 - 2.5 car lengths. If you were tailgating (I’m not saying you necessarily were) that may elicit hard stares .
Basically if you see people on bikes they are fellow road users and vulnerable. Stay back, and don’t over take until safe
They were in the wrong for not being considerate of you trying to pass. You did everything you could and should have done. Where I’m from, we call these people “lycra twats”
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Those cyclists were assholes. Plain and simple. If what you said in this post is true then you were likely correct not choosing to overtake if they weren't giving you ample room and on a curvy road with poor visibility.
You did everything ok. I cycle more than I drive these days, but I would have been perfectly ok with they way you were driving, probably would have stopped and let you pass if I was familiar with the road and knew it will be a while before there is a safe straight where you can overtake. You met a bunch of a-holes.
Nothing wrong if what you are saying is accurate. Maybe they were having a bad day, this was their tenth interaction with a car and almost expecting you to be a prick about it, hence them wanting to force no overtake is all I can suggest. But that isn't on you.
I had the exact same situation. Narrow, winding country roads so couldn't see far enough ahead to safely pass. Finally get to where the road widens a bit and is straight for a while so I could see to pass and they spread out to fill the whole road. They were obviously doing it just to be dicks. It's no wonder people hate cyclists.
Your mistake was that once you had overtaken them you didn't reduce your speed again to almost match theirs, maybe slightly slower just to be safe, and remember to use the full lane.
They should appreciate you being a buffer between them and any traffic in front.
Especially if you are driving a diesel
A pinch of salt might be required.
These people are just aholes. I used to cycle a lot but mostly in city centres where the max is 30 anyways, but I also cycled between villages/towns where the speed limit is higher. I almost always cycled alone and kept as far left on the road as possible. These people acted entitled as if they own the road whilst they in fact are holding up traffic and being a danger going only 20 when the speed limit is 60. IMO they should have gone single file as far left as possible to allow you to take over more easily.
F these people, giving all cyclists a bad name.
interactions with cyclists where i'm from is extremely annoying, most of the roads have a massive cycle path next to them (in some cases as wide as the road and well away FROM the road) and they still choose to ride in the road with the flowing traffic at the busiest parts.
just feels like they want to be hit
Maybe they thought you were closer than you were (or maybe you were closer than you thought). Based purely off what you said, I'm not sure I would have done anything differently. If they ride single-file, it takes longer to get past, so that doesn't always make the difference you might expect. They should be riding steadily and predictably though - no-one should be "swerving out to the centre line".
Forget it and get on with your life, I reckon. They probably have.
It was really odd tbh! The swerving I mean. Never seen a cyclist do that. At first I thought it was to prevent me from passing, but then, not passing was also clearly the wrong move since they weren't happy with me.
For sure on moving on - I just was curious if I could learn something from it, really. Its not a situation I've come across and I acted on instinct but I wondered if there was some rule or conduct I don't know about. Very low stakes in that sense, I'm not losing sleep over it.
My fun car has extremely powerful headlight washers that drench the front of the car and over it. They also have a dedicated button for purely this. When I come across the lycra louts like you've described, I will usually pass slow and wide then pull in front and match their speed. I will then clean my headlights. It may or may not soak them and they may or may not get to taste screen wash. They usually wave back at me in a funny way, Im sure they are thanking me for keeping my headlights clean. I usually wave back in a friendly way and then boot it away to 9k in each gear ensuring they smell a potential decat.
When I'm in my old X5 that can produce a nice black cloud when taking it steady and you then hoof it...I find this is usually quite good also.
I'm also a cyclist, though MTB, but when on the road I'm courteous and also do loads of life savers etc as I'm also a motorcyclist.
Don't blame yourself, I've been in this situation many times. I've even have them waving - trying to make me overtake on a blind corner on a NSL road.
You have to hold your nerve and drive by the code.
It's weird because you'd think some of them would drive and understand the road. But then the '*all* *the* *gear* *and* *no* *idea*' types are likely horrible drivers too.
Think about it: all they have to do is be courteous and pause at a wide bit, their pride and huge ego is all that gets in the way.
Was baited by a group of 6 Bell end latex lovers yesterday
3 and 4 abreast
Pulling out on narrow lane on purpose
Felt like cryshing them against the hedge
If they ride side by side or ride in the middle of the road, I lean on the horn. That's dangerous and reckless...and they're being narcissistic asshats
Sounds to me like it wasn’t safe to pass them. But you still decided that you needed to go faster so you passed them.
Can be pretty dangerous doing that
I cycle and I am also a MAMIL I also cycle in groups. The lot you met were what is known as a collective of cunts. What they were doing is out of order and although they are not obliged to on a narrow road they should go single file, my lot would.
Well said. I also like cycling but there are some proper militant, righteous twats out there.
Some of them are truly shocking I was stuck behind one for a few miles the other week he insisted on riding near the center line whenever the solid whites disappeared, ironically 10 minutes earlier a guy pulled over to let everyone past. It's not all cyclists but some are terrible.
>they are not obliged to on a narrow road they should go single file, my lot would. Highway code, rule 66: >be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so *You can ride two abreast* (not more) *Allow cars to overtake (for example, BY MOVING INTO SINGLE FILE OR STOPPING)* Rule 68: > You MUST NOT ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner Rule 72: >Road positioning. When riding on the roads, there are two basic road positions you should adopt, depending on the situation. >1) Ride in the centre of your lane, to make yourself as clearly visible as possible, in the following situations > on quiet roads or streets – if a faster vehicle comes up behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake, if you can do so safely > 2) When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so whilst keeping at least 0.5 metres away, and further where it is safer, from the kerb edge. Remember that traffic on most dual carriageways moves quickly. Take extra care crossing slip roads. MOVE TO THE LEFT TO ENABLE THEM TO OVERTAKE Cyclists need to read the highway code because most don't have a fucking clue and act like they know it all.
On my cycle to work, it's all country lanes past a certain point. So at certain points I'll pull into a driveway if I see a queue forming, or if I see a large van or any sort of lorry. I cycle at a set time every day so I get a few regulars I see daily and for the most part it all works well. I'm quite lucky that only one companies vans insist on being driven by dicks, lol
As a former tractor driver, thank you. Modern tractors can do about 34mph, but when they're heavily laden they can't accelerate quickly. If I come up behind a cyclist and it's not safe to overtake immediately, chances are I won't be able to overtake unless the cyclist pulls over to let me. The distance needed to get a tractor and trailer up to speed and safely past is almost never available on a country road. I've been stuck behind a cyclist doing less than 10mph for over 5 miles because he wouldn't pull over. It was an A road and cars couldn't get past me so there was an almighty tailback. I pulled over in the one place large enough for me to do so, but then ended up back behind the cyclist within a couple of minutes!
Oh I happily move for bigger vehicles. Al sorry or tractor passing me is terrifying, so I'm happy to pull into someone's driveway or lay by.
I wish more cyclists were like you!!
I appreciate cyclists who do this By pulling in, it enables cars to pass you rather than being stuck behind, letting the driver get pissed off and pulling a reckless overtake out of frustration While drivers shouldn't be doing dangerous overtakes, a cyclist pulling over for 15 seconds prevents it completely
To be honest, I don't do it to be nice. I do it for my own safety.
While all correct It’s worth mentioning the distinction between the road traffic act, and the Highway Code One is the law and must be followed, the other is a (very thick) advisory pamphlet of best practices mixed in with the law Not everything you mentioned is a legal requirement
>Not everything you mentioned is a legal requirement No, but anything in the highway code using "must / must not" is legal requirement, such as "You MUST NOT ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner". Also, if I had an accident because a cyclist wasn't following the highway code, and I was, liability would still be put on them. Especially as I have front and rear dash cams, so I'd have evidence. On top of that, police can still prosecute you for not following the highway code as riding dangerously or without due care and attention, especially if such acts lead to an accident.
Even the advisory parts of the Highway Code can be used to demonstrate someone was doing something that may fall under careless or dangerous driving.
Incorrect. The Highway Code can and has been used in a court of law to demonstrate the standard to which a driver should adhere. Even the “should” parts are a strong recommendation and you will need a good reason to disobey.
The highway code is not just "a very thick advisory pamphlet." Anything with MUST or MUST NOT _is the law_ and will include a reference to the relevant legislation.
To be fair, they did say it was a very thick advisory pamphlet, mixed in with the law. As opposed to the highways act, which is just the law.
Yes indeed, but the book itself is not the law, it *advises* you of the law (some of the time) A lot of people think the whole book is just a copy of the law
It is effectively a form of secondary legislation as it can and has been used to support prosecutions in court, and it is published by the Sec of State for Transport.
I really don't know how to respond to this other than to say you should re-read my previous comment because you don't appear to have understood it.
I just got an automated message from reddit that can _only_ be because you reported me for being suicidal Get a life
Really? It’s been 7 days since I even thought about this post 😂 On a public forum post seen by thousands of people in the last 7 days, I, and I alone, could be the *only* person to report you at risk of harm? Get over yourself man, I don’t care enough to mess with you 😂
Yes. I haven't been on reddit at all for a week because I have a life. > get over yourself man I dunno, check your downvotes man 🤪
I have often pulled over. And on occasion been spat at after doing so. The entitlement of motorists is incredible.
How do they get you from the right hand drivers seat to where ever you’ve pulled over assuming it’s on the left? Your story doesn’t quite stack up to reality.
Oh, they will lean right over to do it, or their passenger will. What would you know about the reality of cycling on the road?
I hate riding on the road. But spitting from the drivers seat risks it not reaching outside especially with the air rushing in the open window. Can understand a passenger reaching you. I’ve never been spat at while cycling. I wonder why they went for you.
Me too, as I am the one that pulled over.
>The entitlement of motorists is incredible. It's not every motorist, just like it's not every cyclist, though many cyclists are just as entitled as many motorists. People who group everyone together are the reason why cyclists get a bad rep in the first place, and then you do that same thing to motorists? The irony and hypocrisy are incredible.
It's not the motorists getting killed, though. Is it. Your logical fallacy is false equivalence.
>It's not the motorists getting killed, though. Is it. Yes, in many cases, it is.
Not by cyclists
While mostly correct and reasonable. This bit isn't correct. >*You can ride two abreast* (not more) UK law is largely permissive. In that things are permitted, unless there's a law that restricts or bans it. Just because the HC clarified that 2 abreast is permitted, absolutely does not mean that more than 2 abreast isn't permitted. Cyclist are allowed to use the full width of the lane, and if that means shortening a group by going 3 abreast within a lane? Then that is not illegal, it doesn't break any HC rule or laws. It does sound like, from the perspective of the driver, this group were very entitled and making it as difficult as possible. Maybe they were just cunts. When it is safe to do so, is used in those rules though. It's worded to let the cyclist decide when that is. When it is safe to do so can look very different from the perspective of a vulnerable cyclist, compared to a protected driver. What looks like a cheeky opportunity for a quick overtake to a driver, can be a heart in mouth moment for a cyclist. Highlighted by a number of incidents caught on camera, where a cheeky overtake has turned into a car plowing into the back of cyclists at speed.
I’m a cyclist and the summer twits round here go 2 abreast on the straights and single file in the corners. Then show disdain you’ve not overtaken by the time they’ve got on the straight and fanned out again.
I didn't really mind either way! But I did think if they wanted me to pass, which it seems they did since following clearly didn't please them, then moving over to give me passing room would have made sense.
You’re assuming that people who ride like absolute bell-ends are able to also think critically and apply common sense to a situation. Which they clearly demonstrated they were unable to do in the manner they rode and interacted with you. You did everything right. The one learning point to take from this is what you already said you do - don’t get wound up by other people’s ridiculous behaviour. Well done you for wanting to make sure you hadn’t committed a silly mistake though, it shows far more decency than that bunch of twats did to you.
>then moving over to give me passing room would have made sense. It doesn't just make sense, it is required in the highway code. Not that most Cyclists give a fuck about educating themselves on the highway code.
As a slight qualification to your comment, Rule 66 asks (but does not require) cyclists to allow drivers to overtake when they “feel it is safe to let them do so”. Based on OP’s description of the road, it doesn’t sound like overtaking would have been safe, so I think as a cyclist in this situation I would have taken the middle of the lane and waited until a straight bit of road before moving over. That’s not to say these particular cyclists weren’t being idiots by weaving all over the place and acting aggressively.
“if it is safe” does a lot of legwork in leaving room for interpretation - as you point out, it does not mean you must immediately pull over if a boy racer in an Audi starts crawling up your arse
"execute rule 66"
Sounds like it would have been safer for them to stop, which is also mentioned in rule 66. Also, being in the middle is purely to make you easier to be seen by other road users and is advised on *quiet roads or streets*. If a car is right behind you and has clearly seen you, then you have no reason to stay in the middle, unless there is someonthing unsafe in the left such as a pothole, manhole cover (in the wet), etc. >Rule 72: >Road positioning. When riding on the roads, there are two basic road positions you should adopt, depending on the situation. >1) Ride in the centre of your lane, to make yourself as clearly visible as possible, in the following situations > on quiet roads or streets – if a faster vehicle comes up behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake, if you can do so safely > 2) When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so whilst keeping at least 0.5 metres away, and further where it is safer, from the kerb edge. Remember that traffic on most dual carriageways moves quickly. Take extra care crossing slip roads. Ride in the centre of your lane... *on quiet roads or streets.* When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so.
Sorry, but moving to the left every time a car approaches from behind, regardless of whether it would be safe for them to overtake, is a very bad idea, because it encourages unsafe overtaking. Rule 72 (the bit which you have left out) advises cyclists to ride in the centre of the lane at the approach to junctions or road narrowings “where it would be unsafe for drivers to overtake you”. Anyway, I’m glad OP had the patience not to try to overtake when it wasn’t safe to do so.
>Rule 72 (the bit which you have left out) advises cyclists to ride in the centre of the lane at the approach to junctions or road narrowings “where it would be unsafe for drivers to overtake you”. I left it out because it wasn't relevant. OP mentioned no junction or road narrowing. They said it was a narrow country road but still had two distinct lanes. >Anyway, I’m glad OP had the patience not to try to overtake when it wasn’t safe to do so. It wasn't safe because of the cyclists' behaviour.
I’d say that it would be quite odd to interpret Rule 72, 3rd bullet, as applying only when the road gets narrow, but not when the road is already narrow. I also think we’re interpreting OP’s description of the road differently. Neither of us were there, but for me a curvy road which isn’t wide enough to safely accommodate a cyclist and two cars side-by-side doesn’t sound like a stretch of road where would want to try to overtake even a single cyclist.
Riding in the middle of the lane is called the [Primary Position](https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/media/%5Bfile%3Amime%5D/roadpositioning-3.jpg) for a reason. It’s not just about being seen but about claiming the road space for safety reasons. At any pinch points like pedestrian refuge islands or if the road lanes are under 3.65m (standard lane width on an A-road) it is best to ride primary if there is oncoming traffic to close overtakes. Drivers tend to misjudge 1.5m passing distance upto 30mph (and 2m over 30mph) and overtake whilst attempting to stay in the lane. Riding primary, and 2-abreast makes it clear that the driver behind has to wait until there is a gap in oncoming traffic to overtake in the opposite lane, the same as they would if passing another car. If the lanes are wide (around 4m) then I’ll stay secondary to allow cars to overtake without having to cross into the opposite lane because usually then there’s width for it to be done safely. I’ve tried always riding in secondary position but it turns out there are a lot of really bad drivers out there so I now I decide when it’s appropriate to allow an overtake for my own safety.
It really isn't, you just stated the passages relevant, "if it is safe to do so" means it's entirely upto them and how safe they feel. There are many cyclists who don't feel safe with cars because the majority don't follow the highway code and allow enough room, as stated in the highway code. Not that most road users give a fuck about educating themselves on the highway code. *fixed that last bit for you.
>"if it is safe to do so" means it's entirely upto them and how safe they feel. Where exactly does it say that cyclists can just judge it based on "how safe they *feel*"? Just because some cars down leave enough room, doesn't give cyclists the right to start denying all cars the room required to overtake safely by staying in the middle of the lane. "If it is safe to do so" does not mean, if you feel like it.
I suggest you go back and read rule 66, the last sentence of bullet point 2 in particular. "be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake when you feel it is safe to let them do so." Notice the word "feel" and the word "you" from the cyclists perspective, I'd say that's exactly what it says.
I cycle frequently and drive as well but some of these groups are proper cunts indeed. There is even one 60 mph stretch that has a dedicated cycle path but no, let's hold up HGVs and nervous drivers etc by cycling on the road which has an awkward bend in it to make overtaking especially risky...
I very much doubt there is a 60 mph road anywhere in the UK with a dedicated cycle path. More likely it's a shared use path and unless it was constructed less than 12 months ago, it is going to be overgrown probably full of loose chippings, litter broken glass etc. An awkward bend never makes overtaking risky. It may prohibit safe overtaking. The person overtaking, when they do not know that it is safe to do so, makes overtaking risky.
I know of 4 spread across 2 counties, the youngest of which is 4. Sorry to burst the little bubble you live in.
I'm guessing you're single...
It's good to see this. Where I live if they spot a car behind them (such as myself), the other will often ride out next to them nearing the second lane, so I can't overtake. Sometimes I can understand it, if the road is narrow and they're looking out for themselves. But often this isn't the case, and I can't understand why they would do this other than to see if they can get a rise out of certain drivers.
We're all mammals technically
I always like to stay a car or two length behind cyclists until it’s safe and I usually go across the other side of the road completely to give them as much space as I can. I’ve had cyclists groups deliberately swerve over, yell, swear, shout at me, ride in the middle of the road.
Its a gaggle of cunts if there is 5 or less. Its a flock of cunts if its 6 - 10 of them Anything over 10 as you say is a collective of cunts
Going in single file makes the group longer and harder to pass. What they were doing was preventing an unsafe overtake on a narrow road. It is in the Highway Code. You say yourself that the road was narrow, and sight lines were compromised.
Agreed. The problem with cycling 2 abreast on a narrow road is that what would be an okay passing gap if single file, becomes a not-okay gap when 2 abreast. But many drivers will still overtake anyway, and would be correct in their defence that they gave as much room as they physically could while doing so. The argument of it allowing drivers to pull in quicker is pretty flimsy as well, as it will save maybe 2 metres if 2 cyclists cycled 2 abreast vs single file, and if that 2m matters than the overtake wasn't safe to begin with. So yeah I'm of the opinion that considerate cyclists will cycle single file on narrow roads, at least when approached from behind by traffic
✅The collective pronoun for all cyclists who aren’t riding single file
It’s really nice to hear from a group of cyclists like yourself 👍 I’ve had this few times when lived in Stamford lincs. One time was on a long country rd. it was a red route. I came upon this pair side by side chatting away 10 mph. They looked over at me carried on. I followed 10 mph for few miles thinking why don’t they go single to let me pass. By this time I had four cars behind pulling out behind me looking to pass. I’m thinking this could end badly. And long stretch opened up I over took them I had my passenger window down all I said was lads you could have let me pass. Well I got fuck you were will do what we want dickhead. I was really annoyed and told them to piss off and quickly drove on. I’m my mirror and I could hear every car who was behind me blaring horns I saw the cyclists flipping them of. I just thought no need we all share the road. But again it’s nice to hear not all cyclists are like that. Thank you 🙏🏼 👏👏👏👏👏
Out of interest why can’t you just wear normal clothes. Are you trying to emulate your Tour de France hero’s and need the tight fitting clothes at get a better aero dynamic slipstream.
Because they're way more comfortable for riding long distances. Also a lot of those cyclists put some serious effort into staying fit so why slow yourself down with baggy clothes?
I always find this criticism strange. Like is it that unusual to dress for a sport? Runners can wear appropriate gear without being asked if they are trying to emulate Mo Farah. People play football in full kits recreationally all the time.
Have you seen road bike saddles! Padded shorts are a must. As for why, probably for the same reason people wear team shirts to football even though they're not playing. Most cycling jerseys have a handy pouch at the back.
Chafing
Sounds like you didn't do anything wrong. How close behind them were you?
About 2 car lengths, perhaps more? I wanted room to gain speed if I did get a chance to pass safely, so I left a decent gap. More than I'd leave a car in normal traffic.
Baffled then. Don't stress, sounds like you didn't do anything wrong
On behalf of all decent cyclists (we do exist), fuck those guys. Seems you did everything right, thank you for that it’s good to know some people are willing to wait for a decent gap. I always try to let people know when a gap is coming up so they can more easily get past, although I have equal right to be there I don’t like to hold people up if I can avoid it.
I never understand the points of views of people like those of this group. I was riding my bike earlier down a fairly narrow road checked my shoulder and saw a HGV turning out behind me, coming my way. I jumped onto the path the first drop kerb I saw, driver gave me a thank you beep and was 100m ahead of me in no time, easier for me, easier for them.
I had something very similar last week, only two cyclists but a very narrow lane (no centre lines) and they were all over the place. Eventually one wanted to wave me past but the width of the road and how far off the verge they were meant I could not give them a comfortable 1m gap as required. They eventually pulled over when I got closer to them and I stopped and explained that I couldn’t give them the separation required comfortably. I started out friendly and one thanked me for my consideration, however, the other one decided that I was the *unt. I did suggest that having seen plenty of head cam footage, I didn’t want to be filmed getting too close when they tried to wave me through and get caned for it. Ffs, I pointed out that they had stopped to talk to me, how about pulling over for one car on a country lane at under 20mph.🤦♂️
I cycle and drive and I can’t fucking stand it when a cyclist waves me past. I’ll decide when it’s safe for me to overtake, thanks. Because when I have that head on and kill someone it won’t be them who has to explain why ‘a cyclist waved me on so I thought it must be safe to overtake’ isn’t really a great defence in a court of law. Same for people flashing headlights to be helpful in stupid situations like when you’re indicating to turn and they’re heading straight on but they want you to turn ahead of them even though there’s nothing behind them. Then they come to a complete stop and act like you’re the prick because you haven’t moved anywhere. It’s very nice of them but I always think, you concentrate on what you’re doing and I’ll concentrate on what I’m doing and then we all get home safely and I don’t have to interact with a fucking spud.
This does my box in as well. Like i know people are just trying to be nice but i'll decide when it's safe for me to go not you. if everyone would just please take the right of way when its theirs we'd all probably get on a lot better.
My philosophy has always been "Don't be polite, be predictable"
Well said👍🏼
I live in a very rural area, and sometimes the perspective of sitting high in the saddle allows you to see what following traffic cannot. It is no different that a car giving you a flash to allow you to turn in front of them when they have priority. I also drove and have held a licence for more years than I have not, so I don't waive anyone through mindlessly, and am fully aware that if I do so in the wrong moment, it is most likely I that will come off worst. Having said that, I take your point about it being your responsibility and am never surprised or judgemental about anyone that decides to ignore my gesture, but it is meant in good faith. And to answer the OP if they get this far in the thread, agree with the top response, the people you encountered were grade A bike wankers... give them space and keep moving, people like that only serve to create animosity between road users, and most are not likely to change no matter what you say or do.
Some people are just shit at cycling. I've been out with groups like this and it's awful, just ends up with a long line of pissed off people behind you which is never good. I distinctly remember one twat who insisted on riding three abreast and randomly swinging out of the group without signalling or checking. The group I generally ride with, ride in a tight two up formation and single out where needed. Keep the groups below a certain size so they're not strung out and clearly signal to drivers. Generally no issues from drivers, though you always get one or two maniacs.
If you end up with any form of queue behind you and you don't pull over to alleviate said queue then you are breaking the highway code. Please spread the word. Cyclists are unaware and the police are absent.
Rule 66? Are you talking about this: "Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so"
Rule 168 and 169. Tractors see fines of up to 6k for breaking it. It applies to cyclists.
So first one is saying don't be a dickhead if someone's actively overtaking you. Second one is referring to large or slow moving vehicles. Doesn't say anything about cyclists
Maybe they were trying to piss you off but you didn’t bite.
See when I'm cycling I do my best not to piss off the big heavy fast machines that could squish me!
I've had it myself with some cyclist angrily waving me to overtake him on a narrow road not far before a turn so I can't see. I'm not overtaking when you tell me to because you don't like me behind you. I don't like you cycling on a 50mph road but I have to put up with it, and so will you.
From everything you described they were a bunch of idiots. Not serious cyclists. If they were experienced and riding in a group they would take up no more space than an estate car and would be easy to overtake. They would also appreciate you waiting for a safe spot to overtake. Groups like this have become more common since covid. Lots of people started cycling on quiet roads so didn’t learn how to ride properly once it got busy again. They are also the same idiots that think the recent Highway Code changes mean they own the road and can do what they want. I’ve been a club cyclist all my life, since covid I’ve stopped riding with clubs because there are too many idiots like this that make it more dangerous for me to ride in a group than on my own. It’s a shame but hey it just seems to be the way society is going these days.
That makes sense, thank you! I honestly wasn't sure if the space they occupied was normal, I can't say I've ever come across more than two cyclists. They were what I'd describe as loosely grouped; sometimes two abreast, sometimes not. Varying speeds so that at times I could have probably fit my car in the spaces they left, but at other times not. One dude doing his best impression of a cartoon snake slithering side to side. They were in all honesty quite erratic which made the idea of passing them even less appealing, cos what if they decided to space out more while I'm going past, or what if the unpredictable swerving put someone in front of me? I'm a big believer in not making moves unless I know I'm keeping everyone around me safe, especially when I'm manning the biggest vehicle (which isn't very often in my fiat 500 lol). So I just chilled out behind them. Wrong move, apparently!
At the end of the day it's your driving license not theirs and you'll pass when you deem it's safe. You did nothing wrong and I would prob have done the same. Although I probably would of flipped them the bird back.
90% of cyclists who ride in groups like that are cunts. Think they own the road and however much space you give them isn't enough. The only thing you did wrong was not have it out with them
Apart from the single file comment (if they go single file it would take you longer to pass them) you didn't do anything wrong. You get good and bad cyclists as well as good and bad motorists and unfortunately these sound like the 'all the gear and no idea' type. When riding in a group we would normally wave a car to come past if we could see the road ahead was clear or pull into a layby or a passing place as we want you behind us as much as you want to be stuck behind us.
Yeah I didn't consider the whole not-going-single-file thing, never thought about it that way, so the benefit to posting this is I've learnt that! In the moment I was just kinda thinking if they wanted me to pass they coulda scooted over to give me more space to, hadn't really thought about it beyond that.
Some idiots drive, some cycle. Both give their respective groups bad names.
I hope that as you were passing them, you took the opportunity to give your windscreen a right good skoosh and wipe to make sure you could see down the road clearly.
As an experienced cyclist / racer I knew you were in the right as soon as you mentioned one of them having a little mirror.
Tour De Bellend. sounds like they were looking for an arguement
Hard to say without video. But with a group like this, going single file does more harm than good. Each bike is about 1.9 metres long + a 50cm gap between them would make a group of 5 cyclists 7.2 metres long, or 1.6 car lengths if they're double file vs 11.5 metres long or about 2.5 car lengths if single file. Which means you'll be on the oncoming lane for more time. Going on what you're saying though, it doesn't seem like you did anything wrong. If one of them keeps swerving to the centre line, then going for an overtake is pretty dangerous at the best of times, doing it when you can't see far ahead enough to complete an overtake is a recipe for disaster.
That's fair! I guess my logic was just that if they wanted me to pass they could have given me more room on such a narrow lane. And from their reaction to me I was assuming that they're mad I didn't pass? So my thinking was, "if you want me to go around you, give me space to do it!!" I wish I could explain the swerving. He was literally just snaking side to side whilst he cycled. Hence why i was even more hesitant to pass than I'd have been otherwise, because I felt like I needed to move aaaaaall the way over in case he veered in front of me.
Swerving is probably something to do with the "new" highway code which tells cyclists to take a more dominant position then move to the left when a faster vehicle comes up behind them. Which some cyclists have taken to mean either "ride down the centre of the road at all costs" or "swerve around like an idiot" or that cyclist was just a tw\*t. take your pick lol
Skilled/experienced cyclists know to cycle in a way that doesn't hinder faster vehicles. Sounds like you came across a bunch of clowns "all the gear, no idea", who cannot even go on a simple cycle without causing a scene. Sadly far too many of these idiots on our roads.
It sounds like they're so used to drivers being impatient pricks that they just defaulted to believing that you were an impatient prick, even though you gave no such indication. Not your fault. If they want more drivers to be courteous then they need to give credit where credit is due!
Unfortunately, not everyone thinks or behaves how we would hope kind, considerate, and well raised human beings might operate. Most people are decent human beings, but some people’s behaviour is unfathomable. Once you have reviewed and checked yourself (which clearly you already did here) you can walk away knowing you had good intent and did your best. You did not deserve the head shakes or hand signs. From what you describe, this group sounded immature, self absorbed and out of order. Maybe send a little hope out to them that they might learn kinder, more mature, and skilful ways of operating. They are lucky you were so patient with them. Thanks for continuing to show caring concern, to learn and course correct, and the ability to self-introspect. These are very decent human qualities you have!
They knew they were in the wrong... they projected this onto you "teaching them a lesson" by deliberately tailing them and not passing... They heckled you because they assumed you were riled by them. They probably enjoy cars trying and struggling to pass. In reality you were out having a nice drive. Their world must be very sad.
This bullshit is why ‘road cycling’ as a group sport needs banning from the roads. Some of these guys are so arrogant and entitled, acting like they are saviours of the world on the back of the green agenda, when in reality they aren’t making an environmentally-conscious travel choice but hogging the road as a taxpayer-funded arena for their sporting pursuits.
I had a similar one I think it was the summer before last. 3 of them in lycra on a 40mph road between 2 towns riding side by side with maybe 100 cars in the queue behind them. They were opposite a cycle path that was rebuild costing apparently a few million and is regularly cleaned by the council to keep usable. So eventually after a few miles I was the car behind them. Two were side by side a little ahead of the last one maybe 50-100 yards behind them. I went to overtake the last one and he pulled out maybe 3 yards further to the right to block me, and put himself at risk of being hit, so I bibbed the horn (a short bib, not a long angry one) to tell him I was there. The three of them started giving me grief, swearing at me and flipping me off. They stopped at some lights at a crossroad and I pulled up next to them and they started giving me more abuse so I got out and started walking towards them. There was a gap in traffic going over the crossroad so they cycled off through the red light in front of the next traffic coming through to run away. I was only going to tell them why I bibbed the horn. I saw the biggest one the next day who looked like the ringleader and said something to him. He just put his head down, turned around and didnt say anything. Thought he was a big man when he thought a group of them could intimidate me but soon showed his true colours.
If you have a passenger get them to lean out the window as you drive by and slap them all with the biggest wet fish that you can source.
I try to get the dog to stick his head out of the window nice big Newfoundland lots of drool.
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When you overtake make sure that you wash your windows...hopefully you also have headlamp wash
It's intimidating when you're cycling and a car is lingering behind as you're constantly having to adjust / prepare for an overtake and all road cyclists have horror stories of bad overtakes. For the record, you weren't in all likelihood doing anything wrong and were being tarred with the same brush by a bunch of FKWs. (Full Kit Wankers). A good group ride will be aware of a car behind and maintain a wide and short group, so you can overtake (always fully on the opposite side) quickly.
>maintain a wide and short group, They should be going single file or stopping. Edit: downvoted by people who clearly haven't read the highway code. This isn't an opinion, people, it's a rule!
Absolutely not. Single file means the car is on the opposite carriageway for longer. Given that motor vehicles must give cyclists the same room when overtaking as they do another motor vehicle (thereby being all the way over in the opposite carriageway) the shorter group makes it much safer and more convenient. As to stopping... why? Cyclists have as much right to the road as any other)
Standard stopping for the same reason you’ll see at least 2 comments on every post here asking about why to do when someone is tailgating you is “let them pass, pull over if you have to, everyone is safer”
Even if there wasn't specific rules about it in the highway code (there is), it's kind of just common courtesy for slower vehicles to let faster vehicles pass? I don't see why that would be a contentious point?
It's a narrow, windy country road, where there isn't enough space to safely overtake a few cyclists travelling at 20mph. It may be national speed limit, but I doubt it is safe to travel at much more 20mph
That's a stretch. Just because 60mph would be unsafe does not mean 40mph would be
So in NZ they have these signs I wish we had here. They're basically big angry signs that remind you to pull the f*** over if you are causing a tailback. Doesn't matter what vehicle you are in or what speed you are going. It is expected, as standard, that *you* stop when it is safe to do so and let everyone past instead of forcing them to crawl behind you or overtake you. The same actually applies here, we just don't have the signs and we therefore get a lot more a**holes. Yes, you have a right to use the road. No you do not have the right to obstruct the flow of traffic when it's within your power to assist it. It doesn't matter if you are cycling, driving a tractor, a mobile crane, no one cares. If there's a layby pull over.
Highway code, rule 66: >be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so Go read up on the highway code. Cyclists have whatever rights are in the highway code. No more. No less. If they can't be arsed to read up and educate themselves on the rules of the road, they don't deserve to be on it. Car drivers go through a theory test, lots of lessons, and a practical test before being allowed unaccompanied on the roads, but cyclists just jump out there and cause hazards for other road users because of their blind ignorance? It's BS.
Rule 66 of the Highway Code is an advisory, not a law. The reason you need less training to cycle than to drive a car is: > Everyone suffers when road collisions occur, whether they are physically injured or not. But those in charge of vehicles that can cause the greatest harm in the event of a collision bear the greatest responsibility to take care and reduce the danger they pose to others. This principle applies most strongly to drivers of large goods and passenger vehicles, vans/minibuses, cars/taxis and motorcycles. While educating everyone should be the priority, the risk of a novice biker pedalling along on a 15kg bike is hardly at the same level of a novice driver in a 1500kg car.
>the risk of a novice biker pedalling along on a 15kg bike is hardly at the same level of a novice driver in a 1500kg car. And if a cyclist does something stupid and causes a driver to swerve and hit something else, it's no longer about a 15kg bike, is it? The driver could swerve their 1500kg car into a wall, barrier, another car, a pedestrian, etc. all to avoid hitting the uneducated, ignorant cyclist. A cyclist on a 15kg bike can easily cause serious injury or even death to other road users. Educating ALL road users should be a top priority. One stupid road user can have a knocking effect that can cause huge damage to both vehicles and people. And when a cyclist caused damage to a car, where do those repairs come from? Cyclists don't have insurance. And we should travel to go through our own because it puts our premium up, and we end up paying for it. Cyclists need to be educated and held more accountable for their actions.
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6510355cbf7c1a0011bb4623/image4.svg](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6510355cbf7c1a0011bb4623/image4.svg) \^This graph shows the number of other road users killed in collisions in Great Britain, by vehicle type, where known, in 2022. Motorists caused the deaths of 685 other road users, whereas in the same timeframe cyclists caused 2 deaths of others. Even pedestrians caused more deaths (7) in the same time. While forcing cyclists to have insurance / undertake more training may help reduce their risk to others, at the end of the day drivers still cause the most deaths of others by far. The need to educate motorists and hold them accountable for their actions still massively outweighs the need to do the same to cyclists.
And does this account for the fact that if there is no evidence, i.e. a dash cam, the law generally sides with the more vulnerable road user, which is complete BS. How many of those incidents caused by cars were not actually caused by cars but were labelled as such due to a lack of evidence? But yes, motorists would still have the higher numbers regardless, just because there is a higher percentage of motorists on the road.
Yes, it only includes statistics from collisions where it is known. >The following looks at the other party involved in fatal collisions, where this can be determined. [https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65103564bf7c1a000dbb462a/image5.svg](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65103564bf7c1a000dbb462a/image5.svg) \^This graph shows the same statistics per billion passenger miles, and shows motorists still cause over 3x as many fatalities per mile than cyclists. I also don't see how the law generally protecting the more vulnerable is BS?
>I also don't see how the law generally protecting the more vulnerable is BS? It's not about protecting the more vulnerable. It's about finding the guilty party after an accident that I am referring to as BS. A cyclist does something wrong, causes an accident, everyone is OK but a car driver now has a car with a grands worth of damage and even though the cyclist was at fault, the law blames the car driver and they have to pay out of pocket for the repairs? Remind me who that is "protecting"?
‘How many of those incidents were caused by a very statistically improbable, make believe situation that I just made up in my head’ Fuck me some people are so bigoted and full of hate 😂
You said it yourself. Car drivers have to have a licence, cyclists (rightly) don't. They use the road by right and that right cannot be revoked. By definition they have more right to the road than drivers, as do pedestrians and horse riders. I suggest you get used to this fact.
>By definition they have more right to the road than drivers What definition is that? Highway code, Section 61: Section 61 covers cycle routes and other facilities for cyclists. If cycle routes are available cyclists should make use of them Their rights can be revoked and slowly are by the introduction of cycle lanes. Cyclists have no inherent "right" to the road. Cyclists use roads due to the lack of a better option where there are no cycle lanes as the only other option is footpaths, which causes a hazard to pedestrians. Edit: Looking at your profile, I see you are a cyclist and clearly an entitled one at that. I'm not putting forward opinions, I'm using the highway code to state facts, and people still argue. Says everything you need to know about cyclists, doesn't it?
Introduction of cycle lanes does not revoke a cyclist's right to use the road. In the UK cycle lanes exist purely for the benefit (if they benefit anyone). Never has a cycle lane been created for the benefit of motorists. The presence of a cycle lane or shared use path does not convert a road into a motorway.
Not to mention loads of cycle routes are signposted on roads anyway!
Oh do fuck off Signed: A Cyclist
Good luck brother. Sucking up to drivers won't keep you safe 😞
Because it's safer. It's always obvious when you're holding a vehicle up for a protracted period so you're much better off letting them past as soon as possible. Even people who think they're Miguel Indurain are at best getting up to 25mph on a flat stretch, which is likely to be a lot slower than a car will travel. I've never understood the not stopping thing, let the vehicle that could kill you past. No one cares about your Strava.
The same reason tractors stop. It is illegal, against the highway code, NOT to stop or pull over to alleviate a queue you are creating. This is why cyclists are hated so much...This "why should I stop" entitlement on top of a holier-than-thou attitude with zero consideration for others, ugh, absolutely disgusting. Even if it wasn't ***specifically in the highway code*** to pull over and alleviate queues, it would **still** be covered by the "be considerate to other road users" rule. Creating queus and not alleviating them when safe to do so is inconsiderate entitled and egotistical behaviour.
FKW - Brilliant! Do you mind if I steal it for future use?
Of course. 🙂. Roadies sneer at commuter cyclists and rarely give the INR as we're beneath them. 😋 (I'm kidding nice roadies. You know the ones I mean though) (INR = Imperceptible Nod of Recognition)
Whenever I'm out in the countryside on my bike (20 year old no name shitter) wearing a pair of old dad shorts and supermarket trainers, and I see a lycra clad nob coming the other way on a biker worth twice as much as my car I always smile, give a little wave and wish them a good afternoon. They hate it and stare aggressively forward avoiding eye contact.
The only time you are excused from waving is when you hit terminal velocity down the local hill, or if the road has turned into the surface of the moon. Other riders that don’t wave just give me the hump and they are worse at this time of year as the Zwift bears come out of hibernation and back onto the roads.
Haha yes. Love riding my old mountain bike (its old, don't know how old) with dirt on it and a slightly bent front fork in jeans, t-shirt and shades and seeing some wanker on some £2000 carbon fiber thing in full lycra poser gear coming the other way desperately pretending that I don't exist.
Typical cyclist behavior. Do not expect cyclists to be normal road users because 99% of them think they own the road and you're obligated to let them do whatever stupid thing they are doing without complaining or overtaking them too hard. You did nothing wrong.
> Do not expect drivers to be normal road users because 99% of them think they own the road and you're obligated to let them do whatever stupid thing they are doing without complaining The sheer number of car drivers who think give way lines are suggestions, or block junctions, or park on double yellows…
You did better than me. I'd have definitely become a very loud roadblock after the overtake.
You did nothing wrong, those cyclists think they own the road and are probably used to more angry drivers and probably enjoy winding drivers up.
In my experience that is just the attitude of most cyclists. From what you said you did nothing wrong. Just ignore the morons and move on with your life mate.
They behave very strangely in groups. Our village is on a well-work local route used by competitive cyclists, and we have a 20 mph limit. Our village has is at the bottom of a slight hill, which means that competitive cyclists can easily be going over 30 when then enter the village. The road is quite narrow, and they do get quite annoyed if they find you ahead of them doing 20, since there is no space for them to safely overtake.
That’s nothing more you could have done. Unfortunately, these are the arseholes that give other cyclists a bad name
A group that chooses to ride on country lanes are twats full stop. You want some exercise get a mountain bike and go ride the trails in the countryside. Don’t fuck up everyone’s day just because you can!
Cyclists are basically the BMW/Merc drivers of our world. Entitled arrogent pricks who think the world revolves around them.
Got stuck behind a pack like this a while back. They were taking up more than half the width of the road! One kept waving his arm like he wanted me to overtake, but I couldn't as there simply wasn't room. He got rather cross about it.
As a cyclist, it sounds like they were ass holes. I don't like cars that sit behind and don't overtake for ages, but on the other hand I don't swerve erratically all over the lane to the point where someones would be concerned overtaking me (or the bunch I was in)
Yeah, pretty much this. I ride, and I drive. Speaking as a cyclist, you did the right thing. Sounds like they were being dicks. If you can't safely get past, then don't.
You did nothing wrong. I’ve always been patient but a bunch of these idiots came up behind me whilst I had stopped at a Zebra crossing for a pedestrian. As this disturbed their peloton I got lots of “F#%ing BMW” driver comments as they passed me then most of them stopping and some continuing despite the pedestrian. “F#%ing BMW” comments then turned into “oh he’s got a point” as they realised they were the douche bags.
The type you encountered are wee boys out playing and tend to try and outcunt each other to show off. Often seen blocking pavements outside coffee shops too.
Johnny English got it right with missiles in the front bumper. Only way to deal with bellend cyclists.
Cyclists are cunts by nature, I wouldn’t worry about it.
My 8 year old rides a bike, and so is a cyclist. Is she a cunt by nature, or is your comment utter gobshite nonsense?
As is my 4yo child apparently. It's in their nature. Which I can understand given his parents. But still!
If she rides 2 abreast then yes she is a cunt by nature.
Absolute scumbag comment. Hang your head.
😂
I also think you're daughter is a cunt for riding a bike lol get off the road.
Pathetic. Back to your impotent rage now.
Cyclists are the chosen people. How dare you attempt to use a public highway for the purpose it was built for.
There are some things you'll just never know the answer to. I've had it with cars too, I've had someone aggressively beep and gesture when I was in front and slowed to turn right. Which wouldnt be so bad, maybe I gave him a fright, except I always indicate before slowing, and indeed indicated for a reasonable distance on this road as the turn was unfamiliar to me, and there was no one else behind or in front of us to worry about, and i only slowed for a few seconds before i turned out of his way. He was so aggressive I assumed my indicator must be out but I checked when I stopped... Nope. There was another mystery beeping incident near my house, turning right from a standstill at traffic lights, the car behind me beeped *a.g.r.e.s.s.i.v.e.l.y* as I turned, I glanced in the mirror and him and his passenger were staring at me like I just ran over their puppy. But the light was green. It's a corner I knew well and it's perfectly legal to turn right. I started away as the light went green so there was no delay. I had passengers myself who verified the light was indeed green and I hadn't had a stroke. We definitely hadn't run over any puppies. Once again I did check the indicator was working. I have *no idea* what the hell happened. These were a few years apart, in different countries, in different cars, and in both cases I had passengers to confirm I didn't imagine the beeping/ commit an offense.
I'm always very grateful if the car following me leaves me a bit more space (although it doesn't happen often in London) keep doing what you are doing.
Guy swerving out was riding defensively. He was probably nervous of cars passing aggressively & trying to prevent it. If he had a mirror he's serious but not in an I wanna go fast sense, more in a I quote health & safety regs down the pub type. Guy at the back glaring, probably nervous because you can sense a car behind you when you cycle & it can be unnerving, I don't think this is talked about much. You're in a catch 22 where the guy at the back wanted you to pass & the guy at the front was claiming the road in a way that stopped you, so you were trapped. Sounded like you did the best you could. Maybe you were closer to them than you thought would be the only learning point. Without cycling yourself it's hard to sense. 2 seconds probably isn't a big enough gap around nervous cyclists because they'll stop a lot quicker than you will. That's the only reason I could think a bird was offered or maybe you floored it as you passed & them? Some people don't like that...
> Cycling side by side, one dude just kept swerving out to the centre line, basically dominating the full width of the lane. To take curves optimally and to prevent overtaking when it’s not safe. > I'd have had to pull completely into the opposing lane to pass safely. OK? Yes? The constant looking over the shoulder is to check whether you’re going to overtake, and the reason they do it is because they reckon it’s safe enough for you to overtake. It’s confusing when someone has room to overtake and for some reason does not. It sounds like you were being very cautious, which is generally a good move. The reason they flipped a bird is because the thought you were trying to intimidate them by driving slowly behind them. Miscommunication.
People on bikes can ride side by side. I can’t tell exactly what situation, but by moving out into the road it simply could have been they were deterring an over take as they saw it as risky. “Thinning out” makes your pass harder and therefore more risky. It also encourages close passes, which again is why riders often stay doubled up - the priority being “my safety, your safety, my convenience, your convenience” As for the glaring, again I don’t know, but you should leave the same stopping distance for a bike as any other road user. At 20 that’s 12m so 2 - 2.5 car lengths. If you were tailgating (I’m not saying you necessarily were) that may elicit hard stares . Basically if you see people on bikes they are fellow road users and vulnerable. Stay back, and don’t over take until safe
Pop the brakes on next time when you overtake. They’ll soon change their tune
They were in the wrong for not being considerate of you trying to pass. You did everything you could and should have done. Where I’m from, we call these people “lycra twats”
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You did nothing wrong, the cyclists were just cunts, then they wonder why people hate em
Those cyclists were assholes. Plain and simple. If what you said in this post is true then you were likely correct not choosing to overtake if they weren't giving you ample room and on a curvy road with poor visibility.
Sounds like you bumped into some Tour de France wannabes with huge egos. Dont worry about it mate.
You did everything ok. I cycle more than I drive these days, but I would have been perfectly ok with they way you were driving, probably would have stopped and let you pass if I was familiar with the road and knew it will be a while before there is a safe straight where you can overtake. You met a bunch of a-holes.
Nothing wrong if what you are saying is accurate. Maybe they were having a bad day, this was their tenth interaction with a car and almost expecting you to be a prick about it, hence them wanting to force no overtake is all I can suggest. But that isn't on you.
Just force them off the road and put them out their misery lad.
I had the exact same situation. Narrow, winding country roads so couldn't see far enough ahead to safely pass. Finally get to where the road widens a bit and is straight for a while so I could see to pass and they spread out to fill the whole road. They were obviously doing it just to be dicks. It's no wonder people hate cyclists.
Your mistake was that once you had overtaken them you didn't reduce your speed again to almost match theirs, maybe slightly slower just to be safe, and remember to use the full lane. They should appreciate you being a buffer between them and any traffic in front. Especially if you are driving a diesel A pinch of salt might be required.
The normal thing is to hang back at a safe distance until it is safe to overtake.
These people are just aholes. I used to cycle a lot but mostly in city centres where the max is 30 anyways, but I also cycled between villages/towns where the speed limit is higher. I almost always cycled alone and kept as far left on the road as possible. These people acted entitled as if they own the road whilst they in fact are holding up traffic and being a danger going only 20 when the speed limit is 60. IMO they should have gone single file as far left as possible to allow you to take over more easily. F these people, giving all cyclists a bad name.
Would have stuck the horn on when passing and washed the screen. I also cycle and would drop to the side to allow a safe overtake
MAMILs will be MAMILs.
interactions with cyclists where i'm from is extremely annoying, most of the roads have a massive cycle path next to them (in some cases as wide as the road and well away FROM the road) and they still choose to ride in the road with the flowing traffic at the busiest parts. just feels like they want to be hit
Buy a snow plough.
Maybe they thought you were closer than you were (or maybe you were closer than you thought). Based purely off what you said, I'm not sure I would have done anything differently. If they ride single-file, it takes longer to get past, so that doesn't always make the difference you might expect. They should be riding steadily and predictably though - no-one should be "swerving out to the centre line". Forget it and get on with your life, I reckon. They probably have.
It was really odd tbh! The swerving I mean. Never seen a cyclist do that. At first I thought it was to prevent me from passing, but then, not passing was also clearly the wrong move since they weren't happy with me. For sure on moving on - I just was curious if I could learn something from it, really. Its not a situation I've come across and I acted on instinct but I wondered if there was some rule or conduct I don't know about. Very low stakes in that sense, I'm not losing sleep over it.
My fun car has extremely powerful headlight washers that drench the front of the car and over it. They also have a dedicated button for purely this. When I come across the lycra louts like you've described, I will usually pass slow and wide then pull in front and match their speed. I will then clean my headlights. It may or may not soak them and they may or may not get to taste screen wash. They usually wave back at me in a funny way, Im sure they are thanking me for keeping my headlights clean. I usually wave back in a friendly way and then boot it away to 9k in each gear ensuring they smell a potential decat. When I'm in my old X5 that can produce a nice black cloud when taking it steady and you then hoof it...I find this is usually quite good also. I'm also a cyclist, though MTB, but when on the road I'm courteous and also do loads of life savers etc as I'm also a motorcyclist.
Don't blame yourself, I've been in this situation many times. I've even have them waving - trying to make me overtake on a blind corner on a NSL road. You have to hold your nerve and drive by the code. It's weird because you'd think some of them would drive and understand the road. But then the '*all* *the* *gear* *and* *no* *idea*' types are likely horrible drivers too. Think about it: all they have to do is be courteous and pause at a wide bit, their pride and huge ego is all that gets in the way.
How anyone can be militant while wearing lycra is beyond me.
Was baited by a group of 6 Bell end latex lovers yesterday 3 and 4 abreast Pulling out on narrow lane on purpose Felt like cryshing them against the hedge
Knock the back rider off, the rest will all stop to ensure their buddy is fine. Use this as your opportunity to pass.
Bonnet, politely
Polite thing to do is slow down, back off from them, then floor it through the lot of em.
If they ride side by side or ride in the middle of the road, I lean on the horn. That's dangerous and reckless...and they're being narcissistic asshats
Flatten the fuckers.
you probably ended up behind a group of vegan cyclists theyre like cyclists but 10x worse because theyre constantly hangry!!!
Sounds to me like it wasn’t safe to pass them. But you still decided that you needed to go faster so you passed them. Can be pretty dangerous doing that