Honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's the same bullshit numbers they use for the stopping distances in general tbh. Brakes and tyres from the 70s or whatever.
30 to 31 mph increasing by 23 meters? 1mph difference is going to cover like 4-7 car lengths? Considering I can stop from 31mph in less than that alleged increase, eh, something is not right.
For the sake of argument, I can only assume it should read "increase *to* X distance" not "increase *by* X distance".
The stopping distances quoted in OP are nonsense. Here’s one reference:
https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/speed/stopping-distances#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20average%20total,(25%20metres)%20at%2070mph.
It so truly out of date it barely matters - my old FK8 Type R used to stop from 70 in 43m and there are better brake setups out there. So you can’t tell me I’d have travelled that much further at 31 than at 30.
Once did an emergency stop at 30mph cos of a cyclist or pedestrian, and I stopped so quick the car behind me barely stopped in time. I think I travelled a car length if that.
Yup. Road and race on YT has a video in an older Porsche where he stops in half the highway code braking distances.
They're laughably outdated. If my car took as long to stop as the highway code says a car takes, I'd think something was very wrong with it.
Stopping distances in the Highway Code allow for reaction time, and they are generous with this.
If you know that you need to stop, of course you can stop in less time than it states. If something unexpected happens, you need a second or so to react.
But that's why the highway code separates thinking distance and braking distance.
The braking distance part is when you hit the brakes, and is entirely independent of how long the thinking distance component took before that. Being alert or asleep won't change how long it takes you to stop once you slam the brake pedal to the floor.
Observation suggests that driver concentration is worse. Doesn't matter if your car can stop in half the distance if you take much longer to notice you need to stop.
They addressed this on the course i was on, l that the cars have got better but drivers have got worse and in more recent analysis the stopping distance is unchanged. Dunno how true it is but it’s what they said
Honestly. It’s like they use the stopping distance for an MAN coach for cars. All modern cars can brake in nearly half the distance the government thinks they can
It's not just a matter of physics, that you can calculate as speed vs stopping distance. Human reaction time is a massive factor, and we react slower than you think. Reaction time stays rhe same before you even touch the brake, and the faster you are going, the longer you travel as you react, then you can work out the physics of slowing down from that higher speed.
Apparently going 35 instead of 30 means your moving with around 33.33% more kinetic energy.
Add reaction time to this like you say and your going around 18mph at the 30mph stopping point.
Based on this I could definitely believe the 30-31mph stats it just seems so illogical at first.
If my maths is right (1/2mv\^2) 1mph increase equates to a 7% increase in kinetic energy. The squared bit certainly helps ramp up energy faster than you'd first think.
But OP is saying that effectively doubles the stopping distance at 30mph (23m + 23m) so I think their note taking was a bit off for that section of the lecture.
I did one recently, those numbers were definitely suspicious.
Essentially “if you do 70 you’ll stop fine, do 71 and you’ll kill everyone around you for the next 3 miles and you’ll lose your license 13 times and get life in prison… trust me, it’s true!”
Where does it say it will take 5 additional car lengths to stop? It says it will pass through the 30 mph stopping point at 8 mph, which is a totally different claim, what am I missing?
If any driver doesn't know what you (or maybe this course?) claim is *uncommon*, they shouldn't have a licence. That's really basic stuff. I'm glad it's covered, but if it's really that uncommon, then clearly, the learning/testing system is too broken to continue.
A lot of drivers on the road passed their tests *decades* ago, and the NSL for a single carriageway is widely thought to be 50 in these older drivers.
Someone I know did a speed awareness and they were the only ones to correctly identify the car NSL for a single carriageway.
> the NSL for a single carriageway is widely thought to be 50 in these older drivers.
I don't why, but this riles me up so much.
It was only 50 for a limited time in 1973, wtf is that their default?
Agree ppl souls know this. I passed my test nearly 40 years ago and know all of these (not the precise stats, or coast though).
Regardless still glad it’s taught and that people find the awareness course useful (I’ve never done one)
My Father would have been 90 this year
He was fully aware that the NSL for a single carriageway was 60MPH. How long ago did the people who you refer to learn it was 50 MPH ?
Reminds me of getting pulled over for driving at 70 on a dual carriageway and the coppers swearing blind that the limit was 60. For some stupid reason the CPS ran with it. Result—-Two traffic officers ordered by magistrates to retake their driving tests !
I think the most common thing not known here is the difference between dual and single carriageway. I would hazard a guess it’s common to assume 1 lane = single carriageway, 2 lanes = dual carriageway, as alot of us know that isn’t true.
There’s a road near me that’s in a built up area so obviously is a 30. However the roundabout has a slightly elongated part that separates the two side of the road, so Google Maps always thinks it’s a 70 because it’s technically a dual carriageway!
28 years driver here. This stuff is so basic, scary that people are on the road that don't understand this. Don't they teach/test highway code anymore ?
When I did mine, the guy doing the course showed us a picture of a single carriageway with white hatching down the middle and asked someone what the speed limit was. He said 70mph. The examiner asked why, and he said because it's a dual carriageway.
I was like, is this guy stupid?
The examiner turned to someone else and asked what they thought, and they said the same as the first person. He carried on asking person after person who all kept agreeing. At this point, I started questioning myself.
He then asked me, and I said, "Well, I thought a dual carriageway had to have a physical barrier between the lanes." He shouted, "bingo!"
I never realised this was something that people don't know. Then again, thinking back to my theory test, I don't think it was something that was covered and I'm not even sure why I knew the correct answer, it's just something I've always thought to be the case.
Because the theory test does not cover all situations you are supposed to self study as well. In fact it is or was possible to get your driving licence without even acknowledging the existence of motorbikes.
Actually, according to a court case involving an ex colleague a cross hatched area surrounded by a solid as opposed to broken line does still count as a dual carriageway. Furthermore, another ex colleague was caught on a roundabout in a single carriageway road at 68MPH. The Magistrates threw that out as the solid roundabout rendered that spot to be dual carriageway
They suggested the driver should instead have been charged with reckless or careless driving
if anything, as actually there had been no evidence to suggest there was any traffic to their right
Some things aren't taught all that well in lessons tbh, I'd had my licence two years before I learned the difference between dual and single carriageways,
My partner's had her licence for nearly 15 years and only about a month ago did she learn what a single vs dual carriageway is - and that's because I was doing bang on 70mph on a dual carriageway and she thought I was speeding!
I did a speed awareness course last year and had identical experience to OP. Most people on course didn't seem to know basic speed limit information.
All were pinged on slower roads (40 in a 30 type of thing). All were caught unaware, apparently.
I was done for doing 81 on the motorway. Course instructor apparently surprised I was speeding intentionally
I didn't even learn to drive and pass my test in the UK and I knew all of this. It's wild there are people driving around the UK who don't know this "uncommon" information. Where did they get the licence from, inside a cornflake box?
Surprised by all of the apparently uncommon knowledge - that's a lot of drivers who don't know what a dual carriageway is. I'll let people off not knowing that when a single limit is shown on a gantry that it applies to all lanes, but the rest of the stuff is super basic.
I'm calling BS on the stopping distances though. At 55mph instead of 50mph by stopping distance increases by 53m? Bollocks. The stopping distances used in the theory test haven't been updated in years, and I expect the ones taught on speed awareness courses are similar. They're calculated on some old vehicles, and most newer vehicles are just not that bad at braking. Also even using the theory test values, the stopping distance (thinking + braking) at 50mph is 53m and at 60mph is 73m, so how driving at 55mph I stead of 50mph *increases* the stopping distance by 53m is a mystery frankly.
Annoyingly the Highway Code thinking time is an *underestimate* and braking time is a massive *overestimate*, so the total stopping distances are just all over the shop.
Stopping, thinking, and braking distances are the only questions I've ever got wrong on theory tests, because they're just bollocks and not worth learning. Better off teaching people to keep minimum 2s, 4s, 20s in dry, wet, and snow/icy conditions respectively. It's also something people can measure while driving using lampposts as reference points, whereas I'll be fucked if the average driver can tell you where 53m in front of their moving vehicle is.
I’ve just checked the tested figures for my car. My heavy diesel estate stops from 100kph in 34m and from 130kph in 57m.
They’re right that they don’t increase linearly but they’re tens of meters off what their numbers say, especially for anything modern and slightly performance ish
I agree, stopping distances are so dependant on the conditions, tyres and vehicle in question.
It would be better to teach the pedestrian fatality chances for different speeds and minimum distances like you said
I too had no idea about gantries, i just assumed one is broken unless lanes were going different places. Like yesterday there was [empty] - 50 - 50 -50 for lanes going M61 - M61/M60 - M60 - M60, so i assumed I'll be alright going 70 in my lane going only to M61, hope I'm right lol.
Also, good luck having 20 second gap for snow, that's real estate for like 6 cars 😂 i think i tried to keep around 8 seconds a couple years back and everyone just kept squeezing in, it's like Mad Max sometimes.
We get heavy snow and ice up here reasonably often.
I once was on the M90/M9 motorway on a section which has a corner so long that it actually has an advisory 30mph limit. It was heavy snow - as in visibility was down to about 10 metres level of snow. I was doing about 20mph, as were some others. One driver decided this was a bit too slow, and decided to overtake me.. on that bend. He came past at I'd say about 35mph, he lost control, and went straight into the crash barrier.
Because of what my stopping distance would be, if I'd started to brake at a safe rate for the snow, my car would've stopped just where a slip road joins the motorway. I doubt he was injured as it didn't appear to cause much damage to the vehicle and the airbags weren't deployed, and the car did then stop.
So I called 999 while driving to let them know about the crash, and having done that I can tell you that I never want to use a mobile phone while driving unless it's critical. I made the call as short as possible.
Stopping distances are a crutch to attempt to explain physics for people who can't deal with numbers. But then they expect those people to understand those numbers, so of course it never works.
I'm a nerd, so I prefer actual numbers:
**Every 10% increase in speed means a 21% increase in kinetic energy.** That's independent of your brakes, suspension, tyres, car, road conditions, and speed.
That's the difference between 20 and 22, 30 and 33, etc., so basically nothing. Yet it's one fifth more energy that needs to be absorbed by brakes, and has to be transferred through tyres onto the road to stop your car, or it'll deform the car plus whatever you hit.
This is never a good thing, but you can help yourself a little bit by increasing the following distance between you and the car in front. Don’t brake unless needed but slowly open up the gap. It will give you more time to react without having to brake hard yourself if something does happen ahead.
I don't get it either, especially when there's two lanes there that are clear, if I want to sit inlane 1 and cruise with the trucks then it's probably fine to overtake me, I'll probably ve exiting the motorway
Wished they brought offenders on the race track to perfect their car dynamic knowledge.
1mph over wil not add multiple meters of stopping distance.
You will however understand that going to fast will make you overshoot a corner apex and go too wide on exit...
Meh maybe in another life
Maybe they should put the people who imagine the distances on a track, ideally with a bias towards speeds on straight line bits where the cameras are likely to be on a public road.
i went on a speed awareness course when i was 17 for going 35 in a 30 during a driving lesson. i was the only person with a provisional license there and i also had to ask my sixth form to leave early lol.
one thing i’ll always remember though is that for your average journey going 35 in a 30 only makes you get to your destination 30 seconds faster! seemed to change a lot of opinions in the room on speeding tbf
>one thing i’ll always remember though is that for your average journey going 35 in a 30 only makes you get to your destination 30 seconds faster!
If your journey is only 1 mile, sure. The average in the UK is 8.1 miles, so already their first 'fact' is bollox.
These 'stats' are cherry picked and manipulated to serve their agenda e.g. braking distances which when tested on Top Gear were less than half of the stated distances, not 100% scientific, but the point made was valid.
It also misses the point. Drop someone off at the station as their train leaves, rather than 30 seconds before, and see what difference 30 seconds make.
"Well you should have set off earlier" - yeah, but I didn't, and that's why I'm speeding.
I usually leave a 4 second gap to the car in front or more at night time. If they emergency stop I can brake fairly easily and if they brake hard I can slow to match in a leisurely manner. I’m convinced if everyone did this traffic would flow better and there would be fewer accidents.
They're the ones you notice because they passed you at 5 mph over and you were shaking your fist about the LUNATICS!
I bet there are many more who pass you who are home with the dinner in the oven by the time you've pottered along from one obstacle to the next.
I don’t intend to be rude but these “uncommon knowledge” bits come up in the theory test and you really should know about the difference in road speeds based on the central division.
It worries me we have people driving that fail to grasp this.
I think you're right, it's not uncommon knowledge but maybe it was a softer way of saying, "these are the most common rules that some people don't think apply to them". I've only been driving a couple of years so it's all still fresh in my head but the amount of people I see daily who won't follow the signs is a bit scary in some areas!
>If there are street lights along either side of the road, then it is an urban road. Speed limit 30mph, apart from Wales where it is 20mph.
Nope: [Welcome to Welshpool, Wales.](https://imgur.com/a/82Iun5V)
Lots of things you learned are correct, some of them are at best presumptive and, at worst, plain wrong.
Calling bullshit on the stopping distance calculations... seems ridiculous.
So 1mph over 30mph, causes a 20+ metre stopping increase? 😂😂😂😂
Man what pisstake of a clown car are they using here?
My car stops *entirely* within 20 metres, from 30mph. Sports brakes. The idea of 1mph extra speed doubling my stopping distance is laughable.
I would fail this course because I wouldn't be able to resist arguing with them.
>I would fail this course because I wouldn't be able to resist arguing with them.
Same lmao.
I can point to video evidence of cars that aren't even modern that stop in well below the highway code figures. Mine included.
The courses seem so full of shit
Best tip I ever had from a speed awareness course was to open your window a bit if you are prone to speeding. The airflow and noise gives you more of a sensation of speed than when you are in the hermetically sealed bubble of your car and so you tend to slow down a bit. Works for me anyway.
If you'd been to the amount of crashes I've been to over my fire service career no one would speed. Almost every crash I've been to someone is at fault, the main cause is speed. Whether it's too fast for the conditions or too fast for their driving ability. The standard of driving leaves a lot to be desired, we have to do a 2 day refresher every 5 years to drive the fire engine. Everyone should have to do some sort of refresher when renewing their licence every 10 years.
I like your definition of speeding "too fast for the conditions or... their driving ability".
No reference to arbitrary crawling speed limits.
Definitely agree about licence renewals.
Funniest thing about going to a speed awareness course is seeing all the monkies there who think they were unjustly caught and that their reason for speeding was justified
When I did mine the icebreaker they did was go around the room asking everyone what their excuse was. I at least got a laugh for "I was trying to leave Wales as quickly as possible", but there were definitely people there who genuinely thought they were hard done by and should have been allowed off.
I actually found it a really worthwhile course. I'd be lying if I said I'd never nudged the speed limit since, but I'm definitely more conscious and careful about it!
In my icebreaker for speeding, we were asked why did people speed and I said ‘my brother once told me driving fast is fun,’ oh the look of scandalisation but objectively it can be a fun activity it just so happens to be illegal if it’s over the limit on a public road.
I was caught doing 78 in a 70.
I got done for 56 in a 50. The kicker?
It was a 70mph dual carriage way, with an abrupt 50 section for about 800 yards, for roadworks that weren't there, with the mobile camera van tucked behind a hedge. In the picture, I'm the only car on the road and the only indication of roadworks were some red cones left over in the hard shoulder.
If I'd been speeding properly, I'd have no complaints, but that? That was bollocks.
The resulting speed awareness course was interesting, but contained some seriously dubious facts.
About 10 meters before the camera aye. There's no way around it, I WAS speeding.
But it was an unnecessary and bizarre speed limit change, and clearly an "earn money" spike rather than anything to do with safety for the non-existent road workers. Therefore, somewhat annoying!
There's some in this thread even.
"It's so unfair they want to do us for doing 34 in a 30" well do 30 in a 30 and they won't "do you". You don't end up done for speeding if you don't speed. If you want to speed (or commit any crime) you need to take the possibility of being punished as part of the risk you take.
Brb, gonna put a 10mph sign by the side of a motorway for no fucking reason, and laugh at the chaos it creates if anyone actually listens to it, because it'll be miles until the next NSL sign
Both my parents caught in this one. The phrase “country speed” gets bandied about a lot when they do 40 in 30s. Funny enough me doing 50 in a tight lane that’s legally a 60 but should be a 30 is “too much” though
Said the same thing absolute nonsense. 30 mph stopping distance is probably around 23 meters total, so how an extra 1 mph doubles the distances is beyond me
"If driving at 31mph, instead of 30mph, stopping distance increases by 23 meters, and 30mph stopping point is hit at 8mph."
According to the Highway code, stopping distance for 30mph is 23 metres, and at 50mph, it's 53m.
Therefore, I can't imagine at 31mph that it's 46 metres. 🤔
I think ironically you need to do the course again...
Already knew everything in "surprisingly uncommon knowledge," and I'd be surprised if other people didn't; likewise with the losing a license section.
As for the stopping distance stuff- I'm deeply sceptical that these numbers are accurate. Obviously, the underlying premise that going faster leads to a greater stopping distance is correct and this is one of the reasons speeding is dangerous - it's just the exact figures I don't put too much stock in. They'll vary significantly according to make, model and age of vehicle, road surface quality and weather, tyre wear and tear and inflation, etc etc. The numbers you're asked to memorise for the theory test are a load of nonsense, and yet you can actually fail as a result of getting them wrong.
Genuinely terrifying that anything is there is "uncommon knowledge"!
This is all basic stuff (ok, you don't expect people to know the injury and stopping numbers off by heart, but they should know the principle).
If your list is genuinely "uncommon knowledge" then that's a good argument for everyone with a license to do this course every 10 years whether they've committed an offence or not.
Interesting read. Thanks!
Question though, the stopping distance increase you've put are the typical stopping distance from the Highway code are they not?
The difference between a 30 mph and 40 mph stop is 13m for example so to 35 mph would be 8m more. (RAC/AA website).
The speed difference to when you should have stopped if doing the speed limit is certainly an eye opener. 40 mph when doing 80 Vs 70! Never thought of it like that.
The number of deaths and injuries a year is the most important bit here. Not whether stopping distances are right or wrong.
1721 families lost a loved one due to driver error. For what? So someone could save a couple of minutes on a journey?
You are more likely to kill someone else when you’re driving than at any other time. That should be reason enough to drive sensibly.
The last time I did one of these (I have done 2 in 34 years of driving), and both times they mentioned things which were just plain wrong.
1) They stated one of the primary issues with speeding was pollution caused by higher revving engines, then later said that to avoid speeding, stay in a lower gear... I pointed out that this meant that the engine would be revving higher and thus generating more pollution than a speeding vehicle as you would be at the same engine speed, but going slower...
2) They talked about not remembering driving to your destination. They said that this was due to being inattentive and not concentrating, but this is not true. This is not how memory works. The reason we don't remember a common journey is generally because there was no "emotional" element, meaning that the memory doesn't get put into our long term storage... (Yes I work in IT, hence the technical wording), or at least it gets "merged" with every other time we did the journey. If there is nothing different then there is no reason to remember it, but if someone pulls out on us, we remember that because there is emotion tied to it.
I saw the course as a lot of fear mongering and not very informative.
FYI, when asked why I was at the course, it was because I missed the 50mph sign on the M25/M3 junction that is just there for that bend... it was about 5am and I definitely should have been paying more attention. I accepted that I was at fault here and didn't try to excuse it.
I did one of these courses and i really learnt my lesson. The next time i was caught going 4mph over the speed limit i took the points on my license. No way i could sit through one of those again.
You're missing a point i learned in my speed awareness course which has potentially saved me from getting repeat tickets:
When in a 30mph don't shift to 4th gear.
The car will be telling you to do so for fuel economy, but in 4th ot is geared to comfortably coast between 34-36mph, enough to get you fined.
In 3rd the car coasts at 28-30mph and it takes a conscious acceleration to break the speed limit.
Try it, it honestly works.
As others have said, it depends on the car. I used to do a similar thing in my old car which was an automatic. I'd put it in '3' instead of 'D' in town, which would stop it using 4th and 5th. You can't do that in some more modern autos though.
First time myself earlier this year and plumped for the course too.
Have to say it was 3 (ish) hours well spent for me as I learnt more in it than in all my lessons.
Host was super cool, but knew his stuff.
Absolutely recommend them myself 👍
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Someone has the stopping distance thing a bit confused I think. The figures quoted are the exact distances in the highway code at each speed limit, decision time plus deceleration.
Apart from the smart motorway one (I don’t drive them so much these days) the rest I learnt 30years ago when I passed and haven’t forgotten. What are they teaching people these days that this sort of thing has to be reiterated?
Never take your vehicle somewhere your brain hasn’t already been.
Stopping distance numbers are probably from the 60s. No way a modern car travelling 55 mph stops 50 odd meters further than a car going 50. That would imply the total stopping distance is well over 100 meters, maybe close to 200 which is total bollocks.
I remember being shocked I was the only one who wasn't speeding in a residential area. I was clocked at 80 in the middle of the night on a dual carriage way, which in my defense had very little chance of doing harm to anyone other than me even in a worse case scenario.
But the absolute ignorance of some of the others who got caught in school zones and places where pedestrians are everywhere, it really annoyed me that I was lumped in with them. I'm the type to do 25 in a 30.
The legal stuff should be obvious. I'd say if you don't know the UK's national speed limits then that is a problem with you.
I went to one and it was the most boring thing ever and at times gave downright wrong advice.
One part, the lady suggested that if you are approaching a light that has been green for a while you should start to slow down so that if/when it goes amber you can break hard in time.
Meanwhile as someone who lives in reality, I know no one behind me is going to be thinking this. I am not going to attempt to slow traffic coming up to a green light. That lady... is how you cause an RTA.
They might not be thinking it, but if you slow down they will also slow down. That’s how traffic works. She wasn’t suggesting you slam on. Just lift off.
And it’s brake when referring to slowing down. Not break.
Nah, she was suggesting I prepare to stop if the light changes to amber.
So the initial slow down isn't the issue. It's the idea that I should stop at amber instead of accelerate to make it through.
Knowing that cars behind me are going to expect me to try and beat the amber I'm not going to BRAKE last minute.
They need to update their materials.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-provisional-estimates-year-ending-june-2023#:~:text=In%20reported%20road%20collisions%20in,the%20year%20ending%20June%202022
when I did mine a few months ago, I got told off for checking out a link prematurely (ie before the break) and informing the instructor that the link didn’t work, as I forgot that you couldn’t use the internet during the session. Also the instructor seemed to be massively in favour of smart motorways & harped on about their increased safety compared to ‘dumb’ motorways, which took all my strength not to point out the obvious issues & that the tech behind it had broken down on several occasions last year, with no drivers knowing that had happened.
Stopping distances are just nonsense in the real world.
A person paying attention at 35 will stop quicker than someone daydreaming at 30.
Also depends on the car, tyres, conditions and a myriad of other factors.
I do agree that the courses are pretty good though. I expected to be admonished and frowned on but actually found it quite informative and educational.
This type of course every 5 years say would probably be a benefit
What stayed with me on my last one (was a while ago so I hope I’m remembering correctly) was that any time you see heavy engineering ie metal barriers at places where pedestrians cross, it is because somebody has died, they add the additional engineering after something terrible has happened. I always look at them now as memorials to a person who lost their life and think carefully about how I drive where there are pedestrians.
Did one a few years back, great experience. Not been caught since LOL. The guy was 'serious' about everybody making a contribution to know we all were paying attention etc but he had a great sense of humour with it.
I'd love to take part in a speed awareness course, just to debunk all this bullshit that they're spewing and make fun of them. Honestly, there is no way that those numbers are accurate whatsoever
Those stopping distances are bollocks compared to the Highway Code recognised values.
The calculation, to get distance in feet is
((Speed/20)+1)*speed
Dividing all by 3.3 to get it roughly in metres.
50 mph is 175’ or 53m
55 mph is 206’ or 62.5m.
That’s less than 10m not 23m.
We can factor in modern cars being better. I’m not condoning speeding and the meat bag driving makes the biggest difference.
I’d just rather it was accurate facts.
The Highway Code for 30mph is a total of 23m. 31mph is roughly 1m longer.
Was that 80mph according to your cars speedometer, or 80mph as clocked by a camera/police?
My GPS usually shows my car doing 70 while speedometer shows 75
> If there are street lights along either side of the road, then it is an urban road. Speed limit 30mph...
What I wish they'd answer is why some dual carriageways with street lights are 70mph and some aren't. Practically it's very obvious, since national limit signs aren't used for 30mph.
But legally, what is the distinction?
Motorways have their own special rules so I understand how that works.
And street lights on frontage roads, because the light is cast upon the main carriageway does it count as urban? Because the lights are within the right of way?
That COAST acronym is something that should be religiously drilled into every driver regularly.
Would probably put those YouTube dash cam channels out of business though 😂
When I attended a SAC some years ago, we were given a test at the start and exactly the same test at the end to see how much we’d learned… I scored less after doing the course than I did before it.
Apparently I unlearned something 😂
I did a motorway one a few weeks back. It was alright. Some of the people in my group were dense as fuck though, to the point where I was wondering if they were plants.
When I took my course a couple of years ago, this one woman started arguing with the instructor about how "You're allowed 10% + 2mph over the limit", she would not accept that the limit is the limit
Yaaaawwwwwn. Money making exercise only. I did one in Birmingham about ten years ago. There were three women in burquas there who didnt speak a word of English or understand anything that was said, or at least pretended they didn’t. When I questioned at the end of the day what what was the point of the whole thing, when some of the attendees could have been anybody and he had made no attempt to confirm they were who they said they were, the condescending patronising dick who ran the course just shrugged his shoulders and walked away.
I think one of the things we really haven’t accounted for is that with so many “normal” cars that are now turbocharged / hybrid / electric it’s so easy to speed. Many people are coming from <100hp 2 tonne machines to something double that weighing 3 tonnes or more with SUVs and can do 0-60 in 8 seconds which is fast.
I honestly think I could do those stopping distances on just my cars regen braking through the motor without touching the actual brakes, the numbers are silly outdated.
I’ve slammed on my actual brakes once in that car, nearly gave myself whiplash with how hard the callipers clamped down on those oversized dinner plates it calls brake discs. And I looked like a moron when it stopped on a dime and left a few car lengths in front of me for what I thought was going to be a close call.
I wish the twat driving behind me today understood this.
I’m doing 50 in a pot hole ridden country road, 60mph limit of course, but oh no…. Not good enough for twat head. Bangs his horn lol I’m driving a new BMW by the way, has enormous acceleration compared to this shit ford heap behind me lol.. does overtake I’m chill. He’s waving his arms around. Lol bless
I think everyone should do these courses once a decade at least, I had one at work done by an ex traffic cop. Loads of really good stories and advice. I changed my driving style totally.
1) you loose more fuel and time making up for slowing down than you gain by speeding in almost every circumstance. Slowing down enough to roll through a set of lights that have gone green that you would have stopped for is a great example.
2) it’s really easy to rationalise speeding by 5-10mph saves you x minutes on paper, in reality it works out that way. So doing 80mph on a motorway for 2 hours covers off an extra 20 miles, or saves you about 15 mins. Actually in practice it might save you 5-10 at best.
3) the faster you go, the less time you have to react. And everyone overestimates their ability to react quickly and effectively except fighter pilots. Wear a white shirt to a food fight and see how many stains you have :)
They'll tell you all that, but will let people legally drive on the roads with second hand ditch finders on their wheels.
How about they give the stats for terrible tyres vs. good tyres vs. premium tyres at the same speed.
How did you not know the basic stuff? I’m pretty sure on my first ever driving lesson my instructor told me streetlights = 30 unless signposted otherwise. This is really simple stuff dude.
Stopping distances are mostly useless. Not least because noone can accurately estimate 51m, but also because of the way hazards develop in real life.
Modern brakes make no difference. Almost all vehicles have had sufficiently strong brakes to lock the wheels at 100mph. Great brakes allow you to do it all day without fade. ABS also makes no difference. It just allows you to steer.
The only things that makes a difference to stopping distance:
1) how early you brake (ie reaction time). Some vehicles will brake for you if it is the last possible moment to avoid a crash. Surprisingly large numbers of crashes have no braking at all. Distraction is a huge factor.
2) how hard you brake
Most drivers, including trained ones, do not brake hard enough early enough. Brake assist in vehicles was designed specifically for this. If the only bit you are braking hard enough for is the end of the braking phase then you are going way over. Brush and bury.
3) the contact patch
The quality of the rubber and the quality of the road. These are often less than ideal in this country! It is the only thing slowing you down unless you have a parachute or hit the car in front.
4) your speed
The free travelling speed of a vehicle should bear very little relation to the hazard/emergency speed. Anticipation of hazard development will see good drivers taking off speed and loading suspension, developing grip prior to the emergency developing. Nearly no braking requirement comes from nowhere. The speed limit has even less to do with the free travelling speed of the vehicle. Quite a blunt policy tool for affecting the hazard speed.
If this is ‘uncommon knowledge’ no wonder driving standards are so poor on UK roads these days. Facts and figures aside, what are newer drivers taught by the instructors?
I am a learner right now, got my exam coming end of this month. My instructor taught me most this stuff but it's also part of the theory exam which I've already taken and studied for independently. With the exception of the speeding stopping distance, the COAST acronym, but also I am taught that safe coasting at under 9mph is okay, for certain situations like parking for example, but should be absolutely never done at higher speeds, and will make you fail the exam if you do coast at high speed.
For duel carriage ways, does a grass verge between the lanes mean it's 70mph or 60mph? Or does that not count as a 'physical barrier' when I drive Google tends to assume 70 but it doesn't feel right?
Is that supposed to be 35mph? Fairly sure 31mph won't take 5 more car lengths to stop vs 30mph...
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's the same bullshit numbers they use for the stopping distances in general tbh. Brakes and tyres from the 70s or whatever. 30 to 31 mph increasing by 23 meters? 1mph difference is going to cover like 4-7 car lengths? Considering I can stop from 31mph in less than that alleged increase, eh, something is not right. For the sake of argument, I can only assume it should read "increase *to* X distance" not "increase *by* X distance".
The stopping distances quoted in OP are nonsense. Here’s one reference: https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/speed/stopping-distances#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20average%20total,(25%20metres)%20at%2070mph.
It so truly out of date it barely matters - my old FK8 Type R used to stop from 70 in 43m and there are better brake setups out there. So you can’t tell me I’d have travelled that much further at 31 than at 30. Once did an emergency stop at 30mph cos of a cyclist or pedestrian, and I stopped so quick the car behind me barely stopped in time. I think I travelled a car length if that.
Yeah I would bet a grand I can stop within 23 metres in my Audi TT at 31 mph
youd have to stop looking at yourself in the mirror first though
Yup. Road and race on YT has a video in an older Porsche where he stops in half the highway code braking distances. They're laughably outdated. If my car took as long to stop as the highway code says a car takes, I'd think something was very wrong with it.
Stopping distances in the Highway Code allow for reaction time, and they are generous with this. If you know that you need to stop, of course you can stop in less time than it states. If something unexpected happens, you need a second or so to react.
But that's why the highway code separates thinking distance and braking distance. The braking distance part is when you hit the brakes, and is entirely independent of how long the thinking distance component took before that. Being alert or asleep won't change how long it takes you to stop once you slam the brake pedal to the floor.
Assuming it was a test that included reaction time (which is the only valid test for stopping distances), I would take that bet.
I could do it in a Punto
1mph -= 0.447 meters ps
This is interesting. I would have thought there was a compounding effect as the speed increases?
So if my half asleep napkin math is right (it's not), that's an extra 10 seconds to slow down from 31 instead of 30. Seems legit.
I do believe this isnt updated numbers when it comes to stopping anymore, cars these days out perform cars when this data was gathered.
Observation suggests that driver concentration is worse. Doesn't matter if your car can stop in half the distance if you take much longer to notice you need to stop.
They addressed this on the course i was on, l that the cars have got better but drivers have got worse and in more recent analysis the stopping distance is unchanged. Dunno how true it is but it’s what they said
How convenient it is that the two cancel out…
Honestly. It’s like they use the stopping distance for an MAN coach for cars. All modern cars can brake in nearly half the distance the government thinks they can
I thought this also… seemed like an anomaly compared to the others
It's not just a matter of physics, that you can calculate as speed vs stopping distance. Human reaction time is a massive factor, and we react slower than you think. Reaction time stays rhe same before you even touch the brake, and the faster you are going, the longer you travel as you react, then you can work out the physics of slowing down from that higher speed.
Apparently going 35 instead of 30 means your moving with around 33.33% more kinetic energy. Add reaction time to this like you say and your going around 18mph at the 30mph stopping point. Based on this I could definitely believe the 30-31mph stats it just seems so illogical at first.
If my maths is right (1/2mv\^2) 1mph increase equates to a 7% increase in kinetic energy. The squared bit certainly helps ramp up energy faster than you'd first think. But OP is saying that effectively doubles the stopping distance at 30mph (23m + 23m) so I think their note taking was a bit off for that section of the lecture.
Yeah apparently so, using a 10 year old Focus estate.
A fucking 40 year old Cortina with them numbers!
I did one recently, those numbers were definitely suspicious. Essentially “if you do 70 you’ll stop fine, do 71 and you’ll kill everyone around you for the next 3 miles and you’ll lose your license 13 times and get life in prison… trust me, it’s true!”
Where does it say it will take 5 additional car lengths to stop? It says it will pass through the 30 mph stopping point at 8 mph, which is a totally different claim, what am I missing?
Before it was edited it said +23 meters.
If any driver doesn't know what you (or maybe this course?) claim is *uncommon*, they shouldn't have a licence. That's really basic stuff. I'm glad it's covered, but if it's really that uncommon, then clearly, the learning/testing system is too broken to continue.
A lot of drivers on the road passed their tests *decades* ago, and the NSL for a single carriageway is widely thought to be 50 in these older drivers. Someone I know did a speed awareness and they were the only ones to correctly identify the car NSL for a single carriageway.
> the NSL for a single carriageway is widely thought to be 50 in these older drivers. I don't why, but this riles me up so much. It was only 50 for a limited time in 1973, wtf is that their default?
Because before that there was literally no limit, then when the limit was set it was 50?
Agree ppl souls know this. I passed my test nearly 40 years ago and know all of these (not the precise stats, or coast though). Regardless still glad it’s taught and that people find the awareness course useful (I’ve never done one)
When I took my speed awareness one guy believed that NSL sign still meant unrestricted- that changed in the 1960’s!
That was probably my Dad trying to wind the Pillock up
Happened with me when I did mine. I was literally the only person who recognised it
My Father would have been 90 this year He was fully aware that the NSL for a single carriageway was 60MPH. How long ago did the people who you refer to learn it was 50 MPH ?
Reminds me of getting pulled over for driving at 70 on a dual carriageway and the coppers swearing blind that the limit was 60. For some stupid reason the CPS ran with it. Result—-Two traffic officers ordered by magistrates to retake their driving tests !
I think the most common thing not known here is the difference between dual and single carriageway. I would hazard a guess it’s common to assume 1 lane = single carriageway, 2 lanes = dual carriageway, as alot of us know that isn’t true.
This will be it.
There’s a road near me that’s in a built up area so obviously is a 30. However the roundabout has a slightly elongated part that separates the two side of the road, so Google Maps always thinks it’s a 70 because it’s technically a dual carriageway!
28 years driver here. This stuff is so basic, scary that people are on the road that don't understand this. Don't they teach/test highway code anymore ?
Indeed. I'm about your age and don't even have a car and know all of this.
The uncommon element is pretty much exactly what half the class struggled with when I did mine.
When I did mine, the guy doing the course showed us a picture of a single carriageway with white hatching down the middle and asked someone what the speed limit was. He said 70mph. The examiner asked why, and he said because it's a dual carriageway. I was like, is this guy stupid? The examiner turned to someone else and asked what they thought, and they said the same as the first person. He carried on asking person after person who all kept agreeing. At this point, I started questioning myself. He then asked me, and I said, "Well, I thought a dual carriageway had to have a physical barrier between the lanes." He shouted, "bingo!" I never realised this was something that people don't know. Then again, thinking back to my theory test, I don't think it was something that was covered and I'm not even sure why I knew the correct answer, it's just something I've always thought to be the case.
Half the class also had lapsed driving licences because they don't pay attention to dates... Never underestimate what people know or don't know!!
Because the theory test does not cover all situations you are supposed to self study as well. In fact it is or was possible to get your driving licence without even acknowledging the existence of motorbikes.
Actually, according to a court case involving an ex colleague a cross hatched area surrounded by a solid as opposed to broken line does still count as a dual carriageway. Furthermore, another ex colleague was caught on a roundabout in a single carriageway road at 68MPH. The Magistrates threw that out as the solid roundabout rendered that spot to be dual carriageway They suggested the driver should instead have been charged with reckless or careless driving if anything, as actually there had been no evidence to suggest there was any traffic to their right
Right that thing about street lights was taught when I learnt to drive in the late 90s ‘00s
Some things aren't taught all that well in lessons tbh, I'd had my licence two years before I learned the difference between dual and single carriageways,
My partner's had her licence for nearly 15 years and only about a month ago did she learn what a single vs dual carriageway is - and that's because I was doing bang on 70mph on a dual carriageway and she thought I was speeding!
Lessons are practical. The theory part is on you to study for.
I did a speed awareness course last year and had identical experience to OP. Most people on course didn't seem to know basic speed limit information. All were pinged on slower roads (40 in a 30 type of thing). All were caught unaware, apparently. I was done for doing 81 on the motorway. Course instructor apparently surprised I was speeding intentionally
They asked for reasons why people speed on one of the speed awareness courses I've done, and people were shocked when I said "Because it's fun."
6/8 can't identify a dual carriageway is terrifying if true.
I didn't even learn to drive and pass my test in the UK and I knew all of this. It's wild there are people driving around the UK who don't know this "uncommon" information. Where did they get the licence from, inside a cornflake box?
Beat me to it this is literally stuff you should know without needing a course, came across as a bit pompous
The stopping distance statements are all false. Way exaggerated
They were probably set before ABS existed
Surprised by all of the apparently uncommon knowledge - that's a lot of drivers who don't know what a dual carriageway is. I'll let people off not knowing that when a single limit is shown on a gantry that it applies to all lanes, but the rest of the stuff is super basic. I'm calling BS on the stopping distances though. At 55mph instead of 50mph by stopping distance increases by 53m? Bollocks. The stopping distances used in the theory test haven't been updated in years, and I expect the ones taught on speed awareness courses are similar. They're calculated on some old vehicles, and most newer vehicles are just not that bad at braking. Also even using the theory test values, the stopping distance (thinking + braking) at 50mph is 53m and at 60mph is 73m, so how driving at 55mph I stead of 50mph *increases* the stopping distance by 53m is a mystery frankly. Annoyingly the Highway Code thinking time is an *underestimate* and braking time is a massive *overestimate*, so the total stopping distances are just all over the shop. Stopping, thinking, and braking distances are the only questions I've ever got wrong on theory tests, because they're just bollocks and not worth learning. Better off teaching people to keep minimum 2s, 4s, 20s in dry, wet, and snow/icy conditions respectively. It's also something people can measure while driving using lampposts as reference points, whereas I'll be fucked if the average driver can tell you where 53m in front of their moving vehicle is.
I’ve just checked the tested figures for my car. My heavy diesel estate stops from 100kph in 34m and from 130kph in 57m. They’re right that they don’t increase linearly but they’re tens of meters off what their numbers say, especially for anything modern and slightly performance ish
Yeah, they're so far off the mark it makes it hard to actually take the figures they give for anything seriously.
I agree, stopping distances are so dependant on the conditions, tyres and vehicle in question. It would be better to teach the pedestrian fatality chances for different speeds and minimum distances like you said
I too had no idea about gantries, i just assumed one is broken unless lanes were going different places. Like yesterday there was [empty] - 50 - 50 -50 for lanes going M61 - M61/M60 - M60 - M60, so i assumed I'll be alright going 70 in my lane going only to M61, hope I'm right lol. Also, good luck having 20 second gap for snow, that's real estate for like 6 cars 😂 i think i tried to keep around 8 seconds a couple years back and everyone just kept squeezing in, it's like Mad Max sometimes.
We get heavy snow and ice up here reasonably often. I once was on the M90/M9 motorway on a section which has a corner so long that it actually has an advisory 30mph limit. It was heavy snow - as in visibility was down to about 10 metres level of snow. I was doing about 20mph, as were some others. One driver decided this was a bit too slow, and decided to overtake me.. on that bend. He came past at I'd say about 35mph, he lost control, and went straight into the crash barrier. Because of what my stopping distance would be, if I'd started to brake at a safe rate for the snow, my car would've stopped just where a slip road joins the motorway. I doubt he was injured as it didn't appear to cause much damage to the vehicle and the airbags weren't deployed, and the car did then stop. So I called 999 while driving to let them know about the crash, and having done that I can tell you that I never want to use a mobile phone while driving unless it's critical. I made the call as short as possible.
Stopping distances are a crutch to attempt to explain physics for people who can't deal with numbers. But then they expect those people to understand those numbers, so of course it never works. I'm a nerd, so I prefer actual numbers: **Every 10% increase in speed means a 21% increase in kinetic energy.** That's independent of your brakes, suspension, tyres, car, road conditions, and speed. That's the difference between 20 and 22, 30 and 33, etc., so basically nothing. Yet it's one fifth more energy that needs to be absorbed by brakes, and has to be transferred through tyres onto the road to stop your car, or it'll deform the car plus whatever you hit.
“Speed limit changes happen at junctions” Don’t think you’ve remembered this correctly as it’s simply not true.
Perhaps it was “speed limits *can* change at junctions” I.e. don’t forget to check when also concentrating on navigating the junction
This makes me so scared of people following so close behind me on the motorway. Just why :(
This is never a good thing, but you can help yourself a little bit by increasing the following distance between you and the car in front. Don’t brake unless needed but slowly open up the gap. It will give you more time to react without having to brake hard yourself if something does happen ahead.
And someone will pull into the space you’ve opened up
Yep, M25 is terrible for this. So hard to have a safe stopping distance in front unless you stick in the ‘slow’ lane behind a lorry
This is pretty much the only useful thing I learnt at a speed awareness course
If you arectravelling faster won't you have less time to react to something happening ahead?
I don't get it either, especially when there's two lanes there that are clear, if I want to sit inlane 1 and cruise with the trucks then it's probably fine to overtake me, I'll probably ve exiting the motorway
Wished they brought offenders on the race track to perfect their car dynamic knowledge. 1mph over wil not add multiple meters of stopping distance. You will however understand that going to fast will make you overshoot a corner apex and go too wide on exit... Meh maybe in another life
If they did that I would be getting caught deliberately......free trackday!
Cursed monkey finger: you have to do it in a 1L Ford Kuga
Ive driven worse, I had 1.4 petrol 307 ffs
Maybe they should put the people who imagine the distances on a track, ideally with a bias towards speeds on straight line bits where the cameras are likely to be on a public road.
i went on a speed awareness course when i was 17 for going 35 in a 30 during a driving lesson. i was the only person with a provisional license there and i also had to ask my sixth form to leave early lol. one thing i’ll always remember though is that for your average journey going 35 in a 30 only makes you get to your destination 30 seconds faster! seemed to change a lot of opinions in the room on speeding tbf
That is 100% correct if and only if you accept the average journey is 210 seconds at 30mph, or 1.75 miles.
Does this figure take into account lights, junctions, roundabouts, etc.?
No, it involves instantaneous acceleration to 30mph, constant travel at 30mph, and then instantaneous stopping to 0mph.
And thats why I do 45 in a 30 ;) If youre going to speed, might as well make it worth your while.
>one thing i’ll always remember though is that for your average journey going 35 in a 30 only makes you get to your destination 30 seconds faster! If your journey is only 1 mile, sure. The average in the UK is 8.1 miles, so already their first 'fact' is bollox. These 'stats' are cherry picked and manipulated to serve their agenda e.g. braking distances which when tested on Top Gear were less than half of the stated distances, not 100% scientific, but the point made was valid.
What’s their agenda??
Get people to stop speeding as much
Reduce the number of families that need to go to surprise funerals or visit their relatives in hospital?
They want us to drive slower.
It also misses the point. Drop someone off at the station as their train leaves, rather than 30 seconds before, and see what difference 30 seconds make. "Well you should have set off earlier" - yeah, but I didn't, and that's why I'm speeding.
I usually leave a 4 second gap to the car in front or more at night time. If they emergency stop I can brake fairly easily and if they brake hard I can slow to match in a leisurely manner. I’m convinced if everyone did this traffic would flow better and there would be fewer accidents.
That's like the WG's claim that the default speed limit change to 20mph would only add 1 minute to the "average journey" - total bollocks
16% faster wahey!
I constantly get overtaken by speeding wreck less drivers just to wait next to them at the next 4 sets of traffic lights
They're the ones you notice because they passed you at 5 mph over and you were shaking your fist about the LUNATICS! I bet there are many more who pass you who are home with the dinner in the oven by the time you've pottered along from one obstacle to the next.
I mean people park like bellends to save a while 1-2 seconds… so it’s not a surprise they care about 30
Are the stopping distances assuming I'm driving a Reliant Robin?
I don’t intend to be rude but these “uncommon knowledge” bits come up in the theory test and you really should know about the difference in road speeds based on the central division. It worries me we have people driving that fail to grasp this.
I think you're right, it's not uncommon knowledge but maybe it was a softer way of saying, "these are the most common rules that some people don't think apply to them". I've only been driving a couple of years so it's all still fresh in my head but the amount of people I see daily who won't follow the signs is a bit scary in some areas!
>If there are street lights along either side of the road, then it is an urban road. Speed limit 30mph, apart from Wales where it is 20mph. Nope: [Welcome to Welshpool, Wales.](https://imgur.com/a/82Iun5V) Lots of things you learned are correct, some of them are at best presumptive and, at worst, plain wrong.
The missing part of the original note is 'and there are no posted speed limit signs'. :)
Calling bullshit on the stopping distance calculations... seems ridiculous. So 1mph over 30mph, causes a 20+ metre stopping increase? 😂😂😂😂 Man what pisstake of a clown car are they using here? My car stops *entirely* within 20 metres, from 30mph. Sports brakes. The idea of 1mph extra speed doubling my stopping distance is laughable. I would fail this course because I wouldn't be able to resist arguing with them.
Dunno why people are downvoting you you are absolutely correct. Must be Fred flinstone brakes they are using
Because they read the Highway Code in bed.
>I would fail this course because I wouldn't be able to resist arguing with them. Same lmao. I can point to video evidence of cars that aren't even modern that stop in well below the highway code figures. Mine included. The courses seem so full of shit
Best tip I ever had from a speed awareness course was to open your window a bit if you are prone to speeding. The airflow and noise gives you more of a sensation of speed than when you are in the hermetically sealed bubble of your car and so you tend to slow down a bit. Works for me anyway.
If you'd been to the amount of crashes I've been to over my fire service career no one would speed. Almost every crash I've been to someone is at fault, the main cause is speed. Whether it's too fast for the conditions or too fast for their driving ability. The standard of driving leaves a lot to be desired, we have to do a 2 day refresher every 5 years to drive the fire engine. Everyone should have to do some sort of refresher when renewing their licence every 10 years.
I like your definition of speeding "too fast for the conditions or... their driving ability". No reference to arbitrary crawling speed limits. Definitely agree about licence renewals.
Funniest thing about going to a speed awareness course is seeing all the monkies there who think they were unjustly caught and that their reason for speeding was justified
When I did mine the icebreaker they did was go around the room asking everyone what their excuse was. I at least got a laugh for "I was trying to leave Wales as quickly as possible", but there were definitely people there who genuinely thought they were hard done by and should have been allowed off. I actually found it a really worthwhile course. I'd be lying if I said I'd never nudged the speed limit since, but I'm definitely more conscious and careful about it!
In my icebreaker for speeding, we were asked why did people speed and I said ‘my brother once told me driving fast is fun,’ oh the look of scandalisation but objectively it can be a fun activity it just so happens to be illegal if it’s over the limit on a public road. I was caught doing 78 in a 70.
I got done for 56 in a 50. The kicker? It was a 70mph dual carriage way, with an abrupt 50 section for about 800 yards, for roadworks that weren't there, with the mobile camera van tucked behind a hedge. In the picture, I'm the only car on the road and the only indication of roadworks were some red cones left over in the hard shoulder. If I'd been speeding properly, I'd have no complaints, but that? That was bollocks. The resulting speed awareness course was interesting, but contained some seriously dubious facts.
Any 50mph signs out?
About 10 meters before the camera aye. There's no way around it, I WAS speeding. But it was an unnecessary and bizarre speed limit change, and clearly an "earn money" spike rather than anything to do with safety for the non-existent road workers. Therefore, somewhat annoying!
There's some in this thread even. "It's so unfair they want to do us for doing 34 in a 30" well do 30 in a 30 and they won't "do you". You don't end up done for speeding if you don't speed. If you want to speed (or commit any crime) you need to take the possibility of being punished as part of the risk you take.
Brb, gonna put a 10mph sign by the side of a motorway for no fucking reason, and laugh at the chaos it creates if anyone actually listens to it, because it'll be miles until the next NSL sign
Both my parents caught in this one. The phrase “country speed” gets bandied about a lot when they do 40 in 30s. Funny enough me doing 50 in a tight lane that’s legally a 60 but should be a 30 is “too much” though
I don’t care what anyone says, that’s stopping distance is bs
Said the same thing absolute nonsense. 30 mph stopping distance is probably around 23 meters total, so how an extra 1 mph doubles the distances is beyond me
"If driving at 31mph, instead of 30mph, stopping distance increases by 23 meters, and 30mph stopping point is hit at 8mph." According to the Highway code, stopping distance for 30mph is 23 metres, and at 50mph, it's 53m. Therefore, I can't imagine at 31mph that it's 46 metres. 🤔 I think ironically you need to do the course again...
No, just needed to write better. Thanks for pointing out, like do many others, I have corrected the post.
Already knew everything in "surprisingly uncommon knowledge," and I'd be surprised if other people didn't; likewise with the losing a license section. As for the stopping distance stuff- I'm deeply sceptical that these numbers are accurate. Obviously, the underlying premise that going faster leads to a greater stopping distance is correct and this is one of the reasons speeding is dangerous - it's just the exact figures I don't put too much stock in. They'll vary significantly according to make, model and age of vehicle, road surface quality and weather, tyre wear and tear and inflation, etc etc. The numbers you're asked to memorise for the theory test are a load of nonsense, and yet you can actually fail as a result of getting them wrong.
Genuinely terrifying that anything is there is "uncommon knowledge"! This is all basic stuff (ok, you don't expect people to know the injury and stopping numbers off by heart, but they should know the principle). If your list is genuinely "uncommon knowledge" then that's a good argument for everyone with a license to do this course every 10 years whether they've committed an offence or not.
Interesting read. Thanks! Question though, the stopping distance increase you've put are the typical stopping distance from the Highway code are they not? The difference between a 30 mph and 40 mph stop is 13m for example so to 35 mph would be 8m more. (RAC/AA website). The speed difference to when you should have stopped if doing the speed limit is certainly an eye opener. 40 mph when doing 80 Vs 70! Never thought of it like that.
You are right. Corrected the post. It was the speed after the stopping distance has crossed that is the key here.
The number of deaths and injuries a year is the most important bit here. Not whether stopping distances are right or wrong. 1721 families lost a loved one due to driver error. For what? So someone could save a couple of minutes on a journey? You are more likely to kill someone else when you’re driving than at any other time. That should be reason enough to drive sensibly.
The last time I did one of these (I have done 2 in 34 years of driving), and both times they mentioned things which were just plain wrong. 1) They stated one of the primary issues with speeding was pollution caused by higher revving engines, then later said that to avoid speeding, stay in a lower gear... I pointed out that this meant that the engine would be revving higher and thus generating more pollution than a speeding vehicle as you would be at the same engine speed, but going slower... 2) They talked about not remembering driving to your destination. They said that this was due to being inattentive and not concentrating, but this is not true. This is not how memory works. The reason we don't remember a common journey is generally because there was no "emotional" element, meaning that the memory doesn't get put into our long term storage... (Yes I work in IT, hence the technical wording), or at least it gets "merged" with every other time we did the journey. If there is nothing different then there is no reason to remember it, but if someone pulls out on us, we remember that because there is emotion tied to it. I saw the course as a lot of fear mongering and not very informative. FYI, when asked why I was at the course, it was because I missed the 50mph sign on the M25/M3 junction that is just there for that bend... it was about 5am and I definitely should have been paying more attention. I accepted that I was at fault here and didn't try to excuse it.
I did one of these courses and i really learnt my lesson. The next time i was caught going 4mph over the speed limit i took the points on my license. No way i could sit through one of those again.
You're missing a point i learned in my speed awareness course which has potentially saved me from getting repeat tickets: When in a 30mph don't shift to 4th gear. The car will be telling you to do so for fuel economy, but in 4th ot is geared to comfortably coast between 34-36mph, enough to get you fined. In 3rd the car coasts at 28-30mph and it takes a conscious acceleration to break the speed limit. Try it, it honestly works.
It very much depends on the car - I had a Polo whilst my car was being serviced and it was quite comfortable in 4th and could just about do 5th at 30.
Every car has different gearing, is the issue, so what works in *your* car (or an *average* car) may be different.
As others have said, it depends on the car. I used to do a similar thing in my old car which was an automatic. I'd put it in '3' instead of 'D' in town, which would stop it using 4th and 5th. You can't do that in some more modern autos though.
Thanks for subjecting us all to a speed awareness course 🤣🤣🤣
First time myself earlier this year and plumped for the course too. Have to say it was 3 (ish) hours well spent for me as I learnt more in it than in all my lessons. Host was super cool, but knew his stuff. Absolutely recommend them myself 👍
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Someone has the stopping distance thing a bit confused I think. The figures quoted are the exact distances in the highway code at each speed limit, decision time plus deceleration.
Yes
Apart from the smart motorway one (I don’t drive them so much these days) the rest I learnt 30years ago when I passed and haven’t forgotten. What are they teaching people these days that this sort of thing has to be reiterated? Never take your vehicle somewhere your brain hasn’t already been.
Useful acronym on mine was J C B, junctions, crests and bends. About 8 years later still informs my speed, gear and road position decisions.
Yeah I was the only one on mine who knew that NSL was different for different.
Stopping distance numbers are probably from the 60s. No way a modern car travelling 55 mph stops 50 odd meters further than a car going 50. That would imply the total stopping distance is well over 100 meters, maybe close to 200 which is total bollocks.
25208 serious injuries Blimey
I remember being shocked I was the only one who wasn't speeding in a residential area. I was clocked at 80 in the middle of the night on a dual carriage way, which in my defense had very little chance of doing harm to anyone other than me even in a worse case scenario. But the absolute ignorance of some of the others who got caught in school zones and places where pedestrians are everywhere, it really annoyed me that I was lumped in with them. I'm the type to do 25 in a 30.
The legal stuff should be obvious. I'd say if you don't know the UK's national speed limits then that is a problem with you. I went to one and it was the most boring thing ever and at times gave downright wrong advice. One part, the lady suggested that if you are approaching a light that has been green for a while you should start to slow down so that if/when it goes amber you can break hard in time. Meanwhile as someone who lives in reality, I know no one behind me is going to be thinking this. I am not going to attempt to slow traffic coming up to a green light. That lady... is how you cause an RTA.
They might not be thinking it, but if you slow down they will also slow down. That’s how traffic works. She wasn’t suggesting you slam on. Just lift off. And it’s brake when referring to slowing down. Not break.
Nah, she was suggesting I prepare to stop if the light changes to amber. So the initial slow down isn't the issue. It's the idea that I should stop at amber instead of accelerate to make it through. Knowing that cars behind me are going to expect me to try and beat the amber I'm not going to BRAKE last minute.
They need to update their materials. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-provisional-estimates-year-ending-june-2023#:~:text=In%20reported%20road%20collisions%20in,the%20year%20ending%20June%202022
when I did mine a few months ago, I got told off for checking out a link prematurely (ie before the break) and informing the instructor that the link didn’t work, as I forgot that you couldn’t use the internet during the session. Also the instructor seemed to be massively in favour of smart motorways & harped on about their increased safety compared to ‘dumb’ motorways, which took all my strength not to point out the obvious issues & that the tech behind it had broken down on several occasions last year, with no drivers knowing that had happened.
Stopping distances are just nonsense in the real world. A person paying attention at 35 will stop quicker than someone daydreaming at 30. Also depends on the car, tyres, conditions and a myriad of other factors. I do agree that the courses are pretty good though. I expected to be admonished and frowned on but actually found it quite informative and educational. This type of course every 5 years say would probably be a benefit
What stayed with me on my last one (was a while ago so I hope I’m remembering correctly) was that any time you see heavy engineering ie metal barriers at places where pedestrians cross, it is because somebody has died, they add the additional engineering after something terrible has happened. I always look at them now as memorials to a person who lost their life and think carefully about how I drive where there are pedestrians.
Did one a few years back, great experience. Not been caught since LOL. The guy was 'serious' about everybody making a contribution to know we all were paying attention etc but he had a great sense of humour with it.
I'd love to take part in a speed awareness course, just to debunk all this bullshit that they're spewing and make fun of them. Honestly, there is no way that those numbers are accurate whatsoever
Those stopping distances are bollocks compared to the Highway Code recognised values. The calculation, to get distance in feet is ((Speed/20)+1)*speed Dividing all by 3.3 to get it roughly in metres. 50 mph is 175’ or 53m 55 mph is 206’ or 62.5m. That’s less than 10m not 23m. We can factor in modern cars being better. I’m not condoning speeding and the meat bag driving makes the biggest difference. I’d just rather it was accurate facts. The Highway Code for 30mph is a total of 23m. 31mph is roughly 1m longer.
Uncommon knowledge? How is basic rules of the road uncommon exactly?
Was that 80mph according to your cars speedometer, or 80mph as clocked by a camera/police? My GPS usually shows my car doing 70 while speedometer shows 75
I sent my form off for my SAC two weeks ago, how quickly do they get back to you?
> If there are street lights along either side of the road, then it is an urban road. Speed limit 30mph... What I wish they'd answer is why some dual carriageways with street lights are 70mph and some aren't. Practically it's very obvious, since national limit signs aren't used for 30mph. But legally, what is the distinction? Motorways have their own special rules so I understand how that works. And street lights on frontage roads, because the light is cast upon the main carriageway does it count as urban? Because the lights are within the right of way?
That COAST acronym is something that should be religiously drilled into every driver regularly. Would probably put those YouTube dash cam channels out of business though 😂
My course seems a little different to yours, but I can actually agree. It actually improved my driving and changed my perspective.
Them figures are absolutely nonsense
When I attended a SAC some years ago, we were given a test at the start and exactly the same test at the end to see how much we’d learned… I scored less after doing the course than I did before it. Apparently I unlearned something 😂
Was it via Zoom, as that may be sending the wrong message
I think I'd rather take the points than sit through that.
Apparently my car will stop from 62mph in 31.7 metres so am I allowed to drive faster please.
So they lied to you about speeding and stopping distances and you’re just so desperate so share it with the group ?
I'm a smidge more harsh. I believe drivers should have to re-sit their theory test every five years and re-take their practical test every ten years.
That's uncommon knowledge..?
I did a motorway one a few weeks back. It was alright. Some of the people in my group were dense as fuck though, to the point where I was wondering if they were plants.
When I took my course a couple of years ago, this one woman started arguing with the instructor about how "You're allowed 10% + 2mph over the limit", she would not accept that the limit is the limit
Yaaaawwwwwn. Money making exercise only. I did one in Birmingham about ten years ago. There were three women in burquas there who didnt speak a word of English or understand anything that was said, or at least pretended they didn’t. When I questioned at the end of the day what what was the point of the whole thing, when some of the attendees could have been anybody and he had made no attempt to confirm they were who they said they were, the condescending patronising dick who ran the course just shrugged his shoulders and walked away.
Those stopping distance figures must have been pulled out their ass, my 90s prelude on ling long tires had better braking than whatever they used 😂
What car are stopping distances based on? Have they changed over time?
I think one of the things we really haven’t accounted for is that with so many “normal” cars that are now turbocharged / hybrid / electric it’s so easy to speed. Many people are coming from <100hp 2 tonne machines to something double that weighing 3 tonnes or more with SUVs and can do 0-60 in 8 seconds which is fast.
Don't know about the stopping distances and don't need to if you follow the two second rule. Everything else in there is obvious, IMO.
Course was really good and made you realise you thought even slightly speeding was culturally ok.
I honestly think I could do those stopping distances on just my cars regen braking through the motor without touching the actual brakes, the numbers are silly outdated. I’ve slammed on my actual brakes once in that car, nearly gave myself whiplash with how hard the callipers clamped down on those oversized dinner plates it calls brake discs. And I looked like a moron when it stopped on a dime and left a few car lengths in front of me for what I thought was going to be a close call.
I wish the twat driving behind me today understood this. I’m doing 50 in a pot hole ridden country road, 60mph limit of course, but oh no…. Not good enough for twat head. Bangs his horn lol I’m driving a new BMW by the way, has enormous acceleration compared to this shit ford heap behind me lol.. does overtake I’m chill. He’s waving his arms around. Lol bless
If someone flashes me I assume there’s something wrong with my car they want to alert me of. Best to slow right down really, just in case….
Who is driving in the UK not knowimg what a dual carriageway is, and what national speed limit means? 🤣
I think everyone should do these courses once a decade at least, I had one at work done by an ex traffic cop. Loads of really good stories and advice. I changed my driving style totally. 1) you loose more fuel and time making up for slowing down than you gain by speeding in almost every circumstance. Slowing down enough to roll through a set of lights that have gone green that you would have stopped for is a great example. 2) it’s really easy to rationalise speeding by 5-10mph saves you x minutes on paper, in reality it works out that way. So doing 80mph on a motorway for 2 hours covers off an extra 20 miles, or saves you about 15 mins. Actually in practice it might save you 5-10 at best. 3) the faster you go, the less time you have to react. And everyone overestimates their ability to react quickly and effectively except fighter pilots. Wear a white shirt to a food fight and see how many stains you have :)
They'll tell you all that, but will let people legally drive on the roads with second hand ditch finders on their wheels. How about they give the stats for terrible tyres vs. good tyres vs. premium tyres at the same speed.
Can you get an awareness course instead of points and fine for a red light? How likely is it to be that?
How did you not know the basic stuff? I’m pretty sure on my first ever driving lesson my instructor told me streetlights = 30 unless signposted otherwise. This is really simple stuff dude.
Stopping distances are mostly useless. Not least because noone can accurately estimate 51m, but also because of the way hazards develop in real life. Modern brakes make no difference. Almost all vehicles have had sufficiently strong brakes to lock the wheels at 100mph. Great brakes allow you to do it all day without fade. ABS also makes no difference. It just allows you to steer. The only things that makes a difference to stopping distance: 1) how early you brake (ie reaction time). Some vehicles will brake for you if it is the last possible moment to avoid a crash. Surprisingly large numbers of crashes have no braking at all. Distraction is a huge factor. 2) how hard you brake Most drivers, including trained ones, do not brake hard enough early enough. Brake assist in vehicles was designed specifically for this. If the only bit you are braking hard enough for is the end of the braking phase then you are going way over. Brush and bury. 3) the contact patch The quality of the rubber and the quality of the road. These are often less than ideal in this country! It is the only thing slowing you down unless you have a parachute or hit the car in front. 4) your speed The free travelling speed of a vehicle should bear very little relation to the hazard/emergency speed. Anticipation of hazard development will see good drivers taking off speed and loading suspension, developing grip prior to the emergency developing. Nearly no braking requirement comes from nowhere. The speed limit has even less to do with the free travelling speed of the vehicle. Quite a blunt policy tool for affecting the hazard speed.
You were done for 80 on the M25? By a camera I hope. I passed a police car at 80 on the a1 the other day and they couldn’t have cared less!
If this is ‘uncommon knowledge’ no wonder driving standards are so poor on UK roads these days. Facts and figures aside, what are newer drivers taught by the instructors?
I am a learner right now, got my exam coming end of this month. My instructor taught me most this stuff but it's also part of the theory exam which I've already taken and studied for independently. With the exception of the speeding stopping distance, the COAST acronym, but also I am taught that safe coasting at under 9mph is okay, for certain situations like parking for example, but should be absolutely never done at higher speeds, and will make you fail the exam if you do coast at high speed.
I don’t think this comment is for me directly. Maybe repost to entire thread. Thanks.
You asked what are people taught by instructors, I answered your question?
Those stopping distances need to be updated Modern cars will stop from 60 in the same distance the Highway Code says cars will stop from 30
Everyone is gonna be doing this course at some point especially if you live in Nottingham
I find it scary that people don't know basic information like speed limits tbh.
For duel carriage ways, does a grass verge between the lanes mean it's 70mph or 60mph? Or does that not count as a 'physical barrier' when I drive Google tends to assume 70 but it doesn't feel right?