I was in rehab with a guy who was in for kratom after two other stays for heroin. He said it wasn't pleasant coming off of it at all. So take that for what you will. If someone checked themselves in for it after using for a long time, I wouldn't try it.
Yeah when I was in detox for alcohol my roommate was in there for kratom addiction. Honestly I didn’t get it since I never tried the stuff. I was going through hell, sweating, hallucinations and all that. The guy was ok, he was working remotely the whole time
That's putting it mildly. I've had two people telling me that getting off kratom was worse than the heroin withdrawal. Perhaps they're outliers, but OP might be one too.
Well, I used it to stop alcohol cravings and yes, it works, but I am now addicted to kratom and struggling to stop that.
So, if you tend to get addicted to things (be honest with yourself), you’re probably better off staying away from it.
Absolutely this. If you have an addiction problem, you could just be trading one addiction for another.
I tried kratom and my take was; snake oil. Did absolutely *nothing* for me. But everyone is different.
For me, to manage cravings I had to keep my hands busy. Tetris (the game) and working on “things” helped me more than anything.
Yes. So much truth. It helps not doing other things but doesn't solve the underlying issue. Plus throwing up that stuff from compulsively overdoing it is miserable. Pure grit.
Jeez it’s like the kratom sub in here one sided.
Kratom is a partial mu opioid agonist, it’s not like oxycodone or heroin that are full opioid agonists. That basically means it doesn’t bind fully and give the extreme sense of euphoria that other opioid drugs do. Which also lowers it’s potential for addiction.
That said, I’ve seen people who have taken extreme amounts of that nasty green powder like a 1/4kilo at a time and yes they’re addicted, they’re abusing it, they’re going to have a bad time getting off it. Comparable to other opioids? No. But not fun either.
Now, if one can possibly be a responsible user, use in low doses and infrequently then it’s not much to worry about. Sound like another familiar substance?
Personally, I’ve used it off and on for years for chronic pain and have had no issues. But if you’ve any doubts to whether or not you will become a “kratom addict” then steer clear.
I've known of kratom for years and your explanation of it being a partial opioid agonist was the missing piece for me. It all makes sense now. Thank you.
Excellent answer! Kratom has been an absolute godsend for me managing a horrible nerve pain condition that I developed following an injury last year. I did thorough research before I started so I would know just what I was getting into - good, bad, and ugly. I’ve been taking it for about six months, 3 grams, 2-3 times a day, with one day off per week. I rotate my strains frequently to avoid increasing tolerance and skip the third dose if I’m not going to be active in the evening. I check myself with a three-day break from time to time to see if I have any craving, and there hasn’t even been a hint. That said, the stuff is VERY pleasant and the potential for addiction is definitely there if you abuse it in either frequency or dose strength. If you want to enjoy this leaf, you have to respect it. If you don’t, it will cut you off and you will be left chasing a ghost. Also of note, if you do try/use kratom, make sure it comes from a vendor who does third-party lab testing for contaminants, metals, etc and that they list the alkaloid content, strain, and origin on the package. If not, pass it up. There’s a lot of crappy kratom out there, especially at head shops and corner markets.
If you have addictive tendencies, I wouldn’t recommend it. That said, it’s a lot more tame than some of the alternatives and if you can replace alcohol with it that’s an upgrade for your health.
>if you can replace alcohol with it
No!!! Nope, OP, do NOT swap out! (@ least not intentionally!) Thats **terrible advice** for another drug that’s really damaging to the body.
See r/QuittingKratom ffs. It’s an unfortunate situation some folks get themselves into. I’ve watched it, and in its’ most addictive, it’s just as ugly to witness as someone destroying their life with booze.
I don’t know man. If you just can’t do life without *any* crutch, I’d choose kratom (or weed) over alcohol ten times. Those aren’t really damaging for the body either, as far as I know. Or do you have any scientific (not anecdotal) sources?
Also, I’ve never been dependent on kratom, but I’ve tried a bunch and read up on it a lot and what fascinates me is the very different experiences people seem to have when quitting. With which I’m not trying to say that those with horrible experiences aren’t valid, but there are also *many* who seem to be able to quit without much issue, just some restlessness for a few days. I know the people on that sub suffer horribly, some even ending up in rehab, but that’s not what it’s going to progress into for everyone using it. There are also many, many positive stories from former alcoholics who’ve gotten their lives back with kratom and are able to use it responsibly.
Also, it at least doesn’t have the possibility of killing you when quitting.
In the end, I think it’s always the best to not need a new substance to stay away from another one… but sometimes that’s just too much to ask. And then kratom is absolutely the lesser of two evils.
[Fuck Kratom](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9130800/)
My sister in law has been abusing it for years and it has her all kinds of fucked up.
**Kratom is physically addictive.** Full stop. It’s a function of the drug, for all that use it daily for X amount of time. Alcohol is physically addictive, although some of us escape it despite vodka for breakfast for years (me & many others.)
Imagine if OP tried to switch, but just ended up with TWO habits… it happens to MANY. That’s part of what makes the suggestion irresponsible.
I’ve met folks who’ve gone on suboxone to get off Kratom FFS.
Weed is different. IMO, if someone doesn’t feel bad about it & isn’t hurting themselves, it’s fine. If it makes them feel poorly, or makes mental health worse, then that’s a different story.
WEED doesn’t equal KRATOM.
Well, I’m sorry this is such a sensitive topic for you and apparently many others. Like I said, I think it’s better to not need any different substance when quitting alcohol, but I also know how incredibly hard, bordering impossible that can be for some. While I’ll not deny that it can be physically addictive and there are absolutely awful stories of people trying to quit kratom, there are also stories of alcoholics whose lives been SAVED by kratom. Period. I’m not one of them, and I’m not here to recommend kratom, but it’s just not true that everyone that has had issues with alcohol will have issues with kratom.
But like with anything on this sub lately, it has to be all black and white again.
I’m not saying it isn’t. I’m saying that not everyone that has an issue with alcohol will have an issue with kratom. My alcoholism was totally out of control. I’ve never felt the need to take more more more with kratom. Same for many others. But whatever. I don’t even know why I keep trying with these topics here.
I have been taking it off/on for about 14 years now. It’s equal to quitting cokes for me. Not bad at all and only lasted a couple of days. Mostly just fatigue. I also always had good blood work too (get it done every year) everyone else s different of course but that is my experience
Please, for the love of beer, try something else to curb the cravings. Look up naltrexone or the Sinclair method. You can find a doctor online to prescribe you naltrexone and it will be delivered to your door and it works! And it's made safely in a lab not sold at gas stations. You deserve the best and not a gas station heroin knockoff.
Do not buy it at a gas station. I’ve been using 1/2 tsp twice a day for 6 years. I get quality Kratom online that I trust. It helps my ibs and anxiety. Getting off coffee has been about the same when taking a break.
It's not as bad as alcohol. It's not good, I've gotten myself dependent on it but I've never almost lost my job or risked other people's lives because of kratom yanno?
On the other hand, overdoing the kratom and puking astringent powder is far worse than post-booze emesis. That shit isn't fun. Like, you know that moment RIGHT before you realize that you have to puke and there's no stopping it? K. You get that. Then you, yanno, you realize you have to puke, then you have to puke, then you puke, and then you taste more kratom on your tongue and you reflexively puke again. Then you do it again. Then you inhale because you've been holding your breath for 25 seconds and inadvertently draw more green bitter plant matter towards the back of your throat. Some of it stays there and triggers more bitterness and saliva and revulsion. Some of it falls farther back into your lungs and you cough. But wait! The remainder fell into your esophagus and is involuntarily forcing you to puke again!
Long story short, if you're tossing kratom and you feel the twinges of puke, you fucking puke and you puke hard. Half-assing it was legit one of the most miserable things I've ever been though.
First off, Kratom addiction is much safer than alcohol addiction. I’ll take it any day over drinking. The main active chemical in Kratom is mitragynine, there’s plenty of data that has been published on it if you really wanna read it but basically it doesn’t have an LD-50 we’ve discovered for humans, it’s a mu opioid receptor agonist/antagonist meaning it blocks that receptor site from absorbing any other mu opioid receptor agonists/antagonists in the brain, which also means on its own Kratom doesn’t display CNS (central nervous system) depression, and one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to chemicals. The words opioids and opiates are not interchangeable terms. Opioids refer to a specific neural pathway in the brain, opiates refer to morphine derivatives. They are not the same thing. PCP is a mu opioid receptor agonist, Salvia is a kappa opioid receptor agonist, fuckin dxm is a mu opioid receptor agonist. Just because something affects opioid receptors, does not make it a synthetic morphine derivative. Kratom is not in the same ballpark as heroin/opiates. But it does cause addiction and WDs. And the market is flush with shitty products, high potency extracts, and products with synthetic Kratom alkaloids, which all of those things changes the safety profile. So do what you want with that info.
I use kratom all the time and it's like a miracle drug that helps me get all of my tasks done. It helps me concentrate and do things thoroughly and completely. I took it first from a friend who got it at a gas station and it felt like Adderall a little. Then I researched and now I buy a bag of 250-500 ct capsules from a legit retailer every 8-18 months probably—Golden Monk is the company and I've had nothing but good experiences AND good product. I've watched them grow the online business over the years and it's impressive with how advanced their website became and how many more products and strains they offer now compared to just 3-5 years ago. The part I don't like is how big the capsules are and how gross they smell but the effects are way worth it for me and I never felt like this was a dangerous drug. It's like on the danger level of a mixture of cannabis and baby Ritalin. In my experience kratom is in no way "bad" or dangerous AT ALL but I have a feeling some people may not like that answer. I think your therapist is probably too uneducated in that school of medicine to give you advice that isn't basically daily morning show gossip or whatever ppl read in Life & Style weekly.
I used kratom to help curb my drinking, and it did indeed help me. I still drink it, but I do take breaks now and then. When I do, my “withdrawal” is basically a day of being a little irritable and perhaps a bit more tired than usual.
That being said, everyone’s body is different. Some complain of having a runny nose for a few days, some report mild digestive changes, but I’ve never, ever heard of someone who is addicted to kratom speak of massive withdrawal symptoms that make them completely miserable for days on end. It’s definitely nowhere on par with alcohol or opiate withdrawal.
The good news is, no one has ever died of kratom use (there have been news stories that claim so, but the victims have always had a multitude of other, more dangerous drugs in their system), and no one has died or been hospitalized for kratom withdrawals.
At the end of the day, it’s up to you to decide whether or not you think you want to trade one thing for another. Only you know how addictive your personality is, and whether or not you can handle it. I wish you the best of luck either way!
edit: a word
Alcohol is a much much much much much much worse addiction. Kratom can be great if you can keep it to one dose a day and take a couple days off every week. A lot of people do end up abusing, the withdrawls do suck, but not the end of the world, nothing even remotely compared to opiods. Youre basically just super tired and irritable. A small dose of gabapentin fixes it
I’ve been using it for a few years now. Never take more than a few grams a day and try to take half the week off. Definitely helps curb the booze cravings. I think if you plan on using it to get high then i can see the addictive part. Def helps with my bum shoulder and back pain. Kinda mellows me too. Just be careful with it. And don’t get it from a gas station. There’s clean and respectful providers. Try higher end smoke shops or online.
I don’t advocate for drug use, but I do use medical marijuana. My 0.02¢ is this; don’t buy drugs that can be sold at smoke shops and gas stations. You just know it’s just not going to be good. Remember spice (salvia)? Grossssss. Worst 30 minutes ever. It’s like finding a new dealer; you’re gonna be disappointed somehow. Just take a hit of weed every now and again. Most have tried it; most know what to expect. It’s easy to come by and actually has a small amount of benefits. It doesn’t make you puke or stop shitting and you don’t have WDs unless you’re smoking sun up to sun down. Even then, they’re milder than opioid or alcohol withdrawal. I agree that raw dogging it through life sucks and it’s damned near impossible for some folks to not use ANYTHING, just use the thing that does the least amount of harm, and use it sparingly.
I use it.
I started for a different reason than quitting alcohol but Kratom certainly was a great crutch when I did give up alcohol.
I use Kratom very sparingly and only when necessary for me.
Honestly, if I were asked my opinion, I would NOT start Kratom just for the assistance it provides in quitting alcohol.
I’ve been addicted to Kratom and only quit because I physically couldn’t stomach it anymore. My body would reject it and I would vomit it all up eventually. The withdrawals are just like coming off of opiates if not just somewhat less intense.
I had some last weekend since a friend had some and kept encouraging me to try it. I did (drank a few grams of it mixed in warm water), then an hour later I puked it all up and got sleepy and took a nap. Probably not doing it again, didn't feel anything except nauseous.
My ex got hooked on it. It’s BAD stuff that QUICKLY creates a physical dependency.
It eases you when you take it and it feels gentle, yet effective. But then when it wears off—-this is where each time you do it, it slowly but surely becomes more intense when you’re withdrawing. The first time is fine!
The second time you feel ever so slightly worse a bit quicker after it wears off—-then each time that time and intensity doubles, triples, etc.
Anyway—the withdraws start to become worse than the initial reason you took it to start with.
Kratom really is one of those drugs that makes you chase the dragon through actual physical dependency.
I’d walk away for good if I were you. I’d stop while you’re able to.
Mild opiate/stimulant effects. If it helps with alcohol it's immensely more healthy than the alternative. They sell bags of the leaves on the roadside here in Thailand and make it into tea that they mix with coke...and sometimes cough syrup...unfortunately
Instead of consuming the raw powder with plant material switch to making tea and filtering the plant material or using a quality price worthy extract. You'll save your GI system a lot of trouble (I learned the hard way from consuming raw powder for 7 months until it did me in with constipation and stomach pain and bloating and sickness). Then switched to extract and tea and it all got way better.
I tried using it to curb my appetite for booze. It worked for a couple weeks. Then I used both kratom and booze for 5 years and it made me feel like an idiot for hooking another monkey on my shoulder. I finally kicked the kratom about a year ago and I'm making great progress towards cutting alcohol out of my life. Quitting kratom was really difficult and strengthened my will tremendously. I learned that I truly had to want to quit to make it stick. I'm applying that to Quitting alcohol now and it's working so I guess in the long run kratom really did help me.
I stopped drinking 10 years ago.. I'm so grateful for Kratom.. and I see tons of opportunities to recommend it to people..but I don't. Sometimes I think it's a shame, but so many people have problems with it. I got lucky and never got really down bad but I definitely deal with side effects (mainly financial and constipation). But for me the benefits far outweigh the negatives. I would just keep honest to yourself about your use and find a good, sustainable way to do it if you choose to have it in your life.
Get an infuser and make cold brew tea out using green loose leaf and drink it during the day not at night. Let it steep in the fridge for at least 24 hours and squeeze a fresh lemon into it before use. Don't use extracts, powders, pills or smoke. That's where the negative effects come from.
My buddy has been dry for 3 years after being in the ICU after a dui.
It keeps him off the booze BUT he’s extremely addicted to it. I saw his withdrawal and it looked like hell. In the bars when he comes out with us (I’m not struggling from substance abuse) he drinks kratom instead of booze.
Don’t trade one addiction for another. I’m all for substituting and harm reduction but kratom is a no go from me.
Hey, I get your concerns. Kratom can be a bit of a mixed bag. It’s helped a lot of people with pain and cravings, but yeah, it does have its downsides. It’s not technically an opioid, but it does interact with the same receptors, so there’s a risk of dependency and withdrawal. Your therapist is right that it’s often used for opioid withdrawal, but the fact that it’s sold at gas stations doesn’t necessarily mean it’s all bad.
See, if it’s helping you avoid alcohol, that’s a win. But it’s imp. to keep an eye on how much you’re using. The nausea and digestive issues are common, so adjusting your dose or trying different strains might help. It’s all about balance and finding what works best for you.
My friend used it to help get off heroin, so in that respect I guess it's good. Using it to get sober from alcohol seems like transferring from one addiction to another, with a solid possibility of being addicted to both.
It can also be extremely dangerous. It's unregulated. Gas station blends may just be a bunch of synthetics that can kill you. Other sources may contain mold or other contamination, which can also kill you. If you don't heavily vet your sources, you're playing with fire.
And for what? Risking death and opioid addiction for a substance that tears up your stomach and doesn't even get you high? What's the point?
I feel this. I think the association of mild intoxication while consuming a beverage was helping curb my alcohol cravings, but it did taste horrible and make me incredibly nauseous. Plus the lack of regulation is scary to me as well.
What? I really enjoyed effects of kratom. Euforia, lower anxiety, motivation. Warm feeling over body. But they banned it in my country. It killed my alcohol cravings also.
This, eventually you run out of things to be addicted to and have to go sober regardless. Im at the point ive been hooked/quit almost everything. Caffeine/nicotine are the last to go.
Kratom should be used for chronic pain and coming off harder opiates rather than doctor prescribed solutions.
It's a powerful painkiller that does what a hydrocodine 10 will do. I take it daily for that reason. Without pain relief I'd be disabled. I used to be prescribed 10s and they are pretty addictive. And subs are worse than those. Took a friend of mine 6 months of hell to get off subs. Kratom is addictive but not as bad as those.
I wouldn't try to take it though to trade for alcohol.
I was in rehab with a guy who was in for kratom after two other stays for heroin. He said it wasn't pleasant coming off of it at all. So take that for what you will. If someone checked themselves in for it after using for a long time, I wouldn't try it.
Yeah when I was in detox for alcohol my roommate was in there for kratom addiction. Honestly I didn’t get it since I never tried the stuff. I was going through hell, sweating, hallucinations and all that. The guy was ok, he was working remotely the whole time
That's putting it mildly. I've had two people telling me that getting off kratom was worse than the heroin withdrawal. Perhaps they're outliers, but OP might be one too.
Well, I used it to stop alcohol cravings and yes, it works, but I am now addicted to kratom and struggling to stop that. So, if you tend to get addicted to things (be honest with yourself), you’re probably better off staying away from it.
Second this
Absolutely this. If you have an addiction problem, you could just be trading one addiction for another. I tried kratom and my take was; snake oil. Did absolutely *nothing* for me. But everyone is different. For me, to manage cravings I had to keep my hands busy. Tetris (the game) and working on “things” helped me more than anything.
Yes. So much truth. It helps not doing other things but doesn't solve the underlying issue. Plus throwing up that stuff from compulsively overdoing it is miserable. Pure grit.
Jeez it’s like the kratom sub in here one sided. Kratom is a partial mu opioid agonist, it’s not like oxycodone or heroin that are full opioid agonists. That basically means it doesn’t bind fully and give the extreme sense of euphoria that other opioid drugs do. Which also lowers it’s potential for addiction. That said, I’ve seen people who have taken extreme amounts of that nasty green powder like a 1/4kilo at a time and yes they’re addicted, they’re abusing it, they’re going to have a bad time getting off it. Comparable to other opioids? No. But not fun either. Now, if one can possibly be a responsible user, use in low doses and infrequently then it’s not much to worry about. Sound like another familiar substance? Personally, I’ve used it off and on for years for chronic pain and have had no issues. But if you’ve any doubts to whether or not you will become a “kratom addict” then steer clear.
This post has my Good Post award.
Same
I've known of kratom for years and your explanation of it being a partial opioid agonist was the missing piece for me. It all makes sense now. Thank you.
This. I’ve only used kratom whilst sick to be able to get through work and it worked like a charm
Excellent answer! Kratom has been an absolute godsend for me managing a horrible nerve pain condition that I developed following an injury last year. I did thorough research before I started so I would know just what I was getting into - good, bad, and ugly. I’ve been taking it for about six months, 3 grams, 2-3 times a day, with one day off per week. I rotate my strains frequently to avoid increasing tolerance and skip the third dose if I’m not going to be active in the evening. I check myself with a three-day break from time to time to see if I have any craving, and there hasn’t even been a hint. That said, the stuff is VERY pleasant and the potential for addiction is definitely there if you abuse it in either frequency or dose strength. If you want to enjoy this leaf, you have to respect it. If you don’t, it will cut you off and you will be left chasing a ghost. Also of note, if you do try/use kratom, make sure it comes from a vendor who does third-party lab testing for contaminants, metals, etc and that they list the alkaloid content, strain, and origin on the package. If not, pass it up. There’s a lot of crappy kratom out there, especially at head shops and corner markets.
Yes to all of that and thank you!
If you have addictive tendencies, I wouldn’t recommend it. That said, it’s a lot more tame than some of the alternatives and if you can replace alcohol with it that’s an upgrade for your health.
>if you can replace alcohol with it No!!! Nope, OP, do NOT swap out! (@ least not intentionally!) Thats **terrible advice** for another drug that’s really damaging to the body. See r/QuittingKratom ffs. It’s an unfortunate situation some folks get themselves into. I’ve watched it, and in its’ most addictive, it’s just as ugly to witness as someone destroying their life with booze.
I don’t know man. If you just can’t do life without *any* crutch, I’d choose kratom (or weed) over alcohol ten times. Those aren’t really damaging for the body either, as far as I know. Or do you have any scientific (not anecdotal) sources? Also, I’ve never been dependent on kratom, but I’ve tried a bunch and read up on it a lot and what fascinates me is the very different experiences people seem to have when quitting. With which I’m not trying to say that those with horrible experiences aren’t valid, but there are also *many* who seem to be able to quit without much issue, just some restlessness for a few days. I know the people on that sub suffer horribly, some even ending up in rehab, but that’s not what it’s going to progress into for everyone using it. There are also many, many positive stories from former alcoholics who’ve gotten their lives back with kratom and are able to use it responsibly. Also, it at least doesn’t have the possibility of killing you when quitting. In the end, I think it’s always the best to not need a new substance to stay away from another one… but sometimes that’s just too much to ask. And then kratom is absolutely the lesser of two evils.
[Fuck Kratom](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9130800/) My sister in law has been abusing it for years and it has her all kinds of fucked up.
**Kratom is physically addictive.** Full stop. It’s a function of the drug, for all that use it daily for X amount of time. Alcohol is physically addictive, although some of us escape it despite vodka for breakfast for years (me & many others.) Imagine if OP tried to switch, but just ended up with TWO habits… it happens to MANY. That’s part of what makes the suggestion irresponsible. I’ve met folks who’ve gone on suboxone to get off Kratom FFS. Weed is different. IMO, if someone doesn’t feel bad about it & isn’t hurting themselves, it’s fine. If it makes them feel poorly, or makes mental health worse, then that’s a different story. WEED doesn’t equal KRATOM.
Well, I’m sorry this is such a sensitive topic for you and apparently many others. Like I said, I think it’s better to not need any different substance when quitting alcohol, but I also know how incredibly hard, bordering impossible that can be for some. While I’ll not deny that it can be physically addictive and there are absolutely awful stories of people trying to quit kratom, there are also stories of alcoholics whose lives been SAVED by kratom. Period. I’m not one of them, and I’m not here to recommend kratom, but it’s just not true that everyone that has had issues with alcohol will have issues with kratom. But like with anything on this sub lately, it has to be all black and white again.
It is absolutely addictive.
I’m not saying it isn’t. I’m saying that not everyone that has an issue with alcohol will have an issue with kratom. My alcoholism was totally out of control. I’ve never felt the need to take more more more with kratom. Same for many others. But whatever. I don’t even know why I keep trying with these topics here.
I’m just speaking on my own experience. You make a fair point. Wasn’t trying to discredit what you were saying.
It CAN be, if you let it.
It's somewhere between harmless and heroin. I'm a daily user, AMA.
Schedule of use?
3x per day, sometimes 4x, in 6 gram doses. So 18-24 gpd.
I have been taking it off/on for about 14 years now. It’s equal to quitting cokes for me. Not bad at all and only lasted a couple of days. Mostly just fatigue. I also always had good blood work too (get it done every year) everyone else s different of course but that is my experience
r u talkin Mexican Cokes or what? that real cane sugar...
Triggering my Mexicoke addiction
Lol no just regular caffeine. I am white btw
Please, for the love of beer, try something else to curb the cravings. Look up naltrexone or the Sinclair method. You can find a doctor online to prescribe you naltrexone and it will be delivered to your door and it works! And it's made safely in a lab not sold at gas stations. You deserve the best and not a gas station heroin knockoff.
Do not buy it at a gas station. I’ve been using 1/2 tsp twice a day for 6 years. I get quality Kratom online that I trust. It helps my ibs and anxiety. Getting off coffee has been about the same when taking a break.
It's not as bad as alcohol. It's not good, I've gotten myself dependent on it but I've never almost lost my job or risked other people's lives because of kratom yanno? On the other hand, overdoing the kratom and puking astringent powder is far worse than post-booze emesis. That shit isn't fun. Like, you know that moment RIGHT before you realize that you have to puke and there's no stopping it? K. You get that. Then you, yanno, you realize you have to puke, then you have to puke, then you puke, and then you taste more kratom on your tongue and you reflexively puke again. Then you do it again. Then you inhale because you've been holding your breath for 25 seconds and inadvertently draw more green bitter plant matter towards the back of your throat. Some of it stays there and triggers more bitterness and saliva and revulsion. Some of it falls farther back into your lungs and you cough. But wait! The remainder fell into your esophagus and is involuntarily forcing you to puke again! Long story short, if you're tossing kratom and you feel the twinges of puke, you fucking puke and you puke hard. Half-assing it was legit one of the most miserable things I've ever been though.
I abused opioids every chance I had before wanting to quit alcohol so i stayed away from it. I used weed to curb the alcohol cravings
Same. I feel weed doesn’t get talked about enough here. 3 years dry with the help of it
Me too buddy, 3 years at the beginning of May. Congrats to you and happy for your success!
Nice good work, friend!
First off, Kratom addiction is much safer than alcohol addiction. I’ll take it any day over drinking. The main active chemical in Kratom is mitragynine, there’s plenty of data that has been published on it if you really wanna read it but basically it doesn’t have an LD-50 we’ve discovered for humans, it’s a mu opioid receptor agonist/antagonist meaning it blocks that receptor site from absorbing any other mu opioid receptor agonists/antagonists in the brain, which also means on its own Kratom doesn’t display CNS (central nervous system) depression, and one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to chemicals. The words opioids and opiates are not interchangeable terms. Opioids refer to a specific neural pathway in the brain, opiates refer to morphine derivatives. They are not the same thing. PCP is a mu opioid receptor agonist, Salvia is a kappa opioid receptor agonist, fuckin dxm is a mu opioid receptor agonist. Just because something affects opioid receptors, does not make it a synthetic morphine derivative. Kratom is not in the same ballpark as heroin/opiates. But it does cause addiction and WDs. And the market is flush with shitty products, high potency extracts, and products with synthetic Kratom alkaloids, which all of those things changes the safety profile. So do what you want with that info.
Great explanation.
I use kratom all the time and it's like a miracle drug that helps me get all of my tasks done. It helps me concentrate and do things thoroughly and completely. I took it first from a friend who got it at a gas station and it felt like Adderall a little. Then I researched and now I buy a bag of 250-500 ct capsules from a legit retailer every 8-18 months probably—Golden Monk is the company and I've had nothing but good experiences AND good product. I've watched them grow the online business over the years and it's impressive with how advanced their website became and how many more products and strains they offer now compared to just 3-5 years ago. The part I don't like is how big the capsules are and how gross they smell but the effects are way worth it for me and I never felt like this was a dangerous drug. It's like on the danger level of a mixture of cannabis and baby Ritalin. In my experience kratom is in no way "bad" or dangerous AT ALL but I have a feeling some people may not like that answer. I think your therapist is probably too uneducated in that school of medicine to give you advice that isn't basically daily morning show gossip or whatever ppl read in Life & Style weekly.
I used kratom to help curb my drinking, and it did indeed help me. I still drink it, but I do take breaks now and then. When I do, my “withdrawal” is basically a day of being a little irritable and perhaps a bit more tired than usual. That being said, everyone’s body is different. Some complain of having a runny nose for a few days, some report mild digestive changes, but I’ve never, ever heard of someone who is addicted to kratom speak of massive withdrawal symptoms that make them completely miserable for days on end. It’s definitely nowhere on par with alcohol or opiate withdrawal. The good news is, no one has ever died of kratom use (there have been news stories that claim so, but the victims have always had a multitude of other, more dangerous drugs in their system), and no one has died or been hospitalized for kratom withdrawals. At the end of the day, it’s up to you to decide whether or not you think you want to trade one thing for another. Only you know how addictive your personality is, and whether or not you can handle it. I wish you the best of luck either way! edit: a word
Alcohol is a much much much much much much worse addiction. Kratom can be great if you can keep it to one dose a day and take a couple days off every week. A lot of people do end up abusing, the withdrawls do suck, but not the end of the world, nothing even remotely compared to opiods. Youre basically just super tired and irritable. A small dose of gabapentin fixes it
I’ve been using it for a few years now. Never take more than a few grams a day and try to take half the week off. Definitely helps curb the booze cravings. I think if you plan on using it to get high then i can see the addictive part. Def helps with my bum shoulder and back pain. Kinda mellows me too. Just be careful with it. And don’t get it from a gas station. There’s clean and respectful providers. Try higher end smoke shops or online.
It’s not addictive to me and helps with the first few weeks of recovery, but I still find myself relapsing.
I don’t advocate for drug use, but I do use medical marijuana. My 0.02¢ is this; don’t buy drugs that can be sold at smoke shops and gas stations. You just know it’s just not going to be good. Remember spice (salvia)? Grossssss. Worst 30 minutes ever. It’s like finding a new dealer; you’re gonna be disappointed somehow. Just take a hit of weed every now and again. Most have tried it; most know what to expect. It’s easy to come by and actually has a small amount of benefits. It doesn’t make you puke or stop shitting and you don’t have WDs unless you’re smoking sun up to sun down. Even then, they’re milder than opioid or alcohol withdrawal. I agree that raw dogging it through life sucks and it’s damned near impossible for some folks to not use ANYTHING, just use the thing that does the least amount of harm, and use it sparingly.
How about cannabis?
I use it. I started for a different reason than quitting alcohol but Kratom certainly was a great crutch when I did give up alcohol. I use Kratom very sparingly and only when necessary for me. Honestly, if I were asked my opinion, I would NOT start Kratom just for the assistance it provides in quitting alcohol.
I’ve been addicted to Kratom and only quit because I physically couldn’t stomach it anymore. My body would reject it and I would vomit it all up eventually. The withdrawals are just like coming off of opiates if not just somewhat less intense.
I had some last weekend since a friend had some and kept encouraging me to try it. I did (drank a few grams of it mixed in warm water), then an hour later I puked it all up and got sleepy and took a nap. Probably not doing it again, didn't feel anything except nauseous.
My ex got hooked on it. It’s BAD stuff that QUICKLY creates a physical dependency. It eases you when you take it and it feels gentle, yet effective. But then when it wears off—-this is where each time you do it, it slowly but surely becomes more intense when you’re withdrawing. The first time is fine! The second time you feel ever so slightly worse a bit quicker after it wears off—-then each time that time and intensity doubles, triples, etc. Anyway—the withdraws start to become worse than the initial reason you took it to start with. Kratom really is one of those drugs that makes you chase the dragon through actual physical dependency. I’d walk away for good if I were you. I’d stop while you’re able to.
My partner has been trying to get off for years. 2 stays in rehab. Still struggling. I would NOT recommend.
Mild opiate/stimulant effects. If it helps with alcohol it's immensely more healthy than the alternative. They sell bags of the leaves on the roadside here in Thailand and make it into tea that they mix with coke...and sometimes cough syrup...unfortunately
Instead of consuming the raw powder with plant material switch to making tea and filtering the plant material or using a quality price worthy extract. You'll save your GI system a lot of trouble (I learned the hard way from consuming raw powder for 7 months until it did me in with constipation and stomach pain and bloating and sickness). Then switched to extract and tea and it all got way better.
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And can be very expensive. 😳
Naw, it’s pretty cheap. $100 a kilo, shipped to my door from a quality vendor, lasts me like three months.
I tried using it to curb my appetite for booze. It worked for a couple weeks. Then I used both kratom and booze for 5 years and it made me feel like an idiot for hooking another monkey on my shoulder. I finally kicked the kratom about a year ago and I'm making great progress towards cutting alcohol out of my life. Quitting kratom was really difficult and strengthened my will tremendously. I learned that I truly had to want to quit to make it stick. I'm applying that to Quitting alcohol now and it's working so I guess in the long run kratom really did help me.
Psyched Substance on YouTube got badly addicted to Kratom and it almost ruined his life.
I take it. Most rehabs will detox you off of it also so it is not that hard to quit.
Op, only speaking from my own personal experience. Kratom was absolute hell to get off of. Did the same thing and went from booze right to Kratom.
I’ve seen this response a lot. Doesn’t seem worth it to swap one withdrawal for another.
I’ve only done it three times and the third time it made me ungodly nauseous to the point that I can’t even think about doing it again
It made me puke twice and for some reason that was still better than being sober
Bad, dont do it. It comes with its own horrific fucking withdrawal. ask me how I know.
I’m assuming you know from personal experience? I definitely do not need to add another vice to my life.
It killed someone very close to me due to outrageous blackouts it would cause. Cannot believe what I witnessed.
Neither can I.
Whoa. I haven’t experienced anything like that. I am so sorry. This comment alone makes me want to never use it again.
It made me feel sooooo high and tired
I stopped drinking 10 years ago.. I'm so grateful for Kratom.. and I see tons of opportunities to recommend it to people..but I don't. Sometimes I think it's a shame, but so many people have problems with it. I got lucky and never got really down bad but I definitely deal with side effects (mainly financial and constipation). But for me the benefits far outweigh the negatives. I would just keep honest to yourself about your use and find a good, sustainable way to do it if you choose to have it in your life.
Get an infuser and make cold brew tea out using green loose leaf and drink it during the day not at night. Let it steep in the fridge for at least 24 hours and squeeze a fresh lemon into it before use. Don't use extracts, powders, pills or smoke. That's where the negative effects come from.
My buddy has been dry for 3 years after being in the ICU after a dui. It keeps him off the booze BUT he’s extremely addicted to it. I saw his withdrawal and it looked like hell. In the bars when he comes out with us (I’m not struggling from substance abuse) he drinks kratom instead of booze. Don’t trade one addiction for another. I’m all for substituting and harm reduction but kratom is a no go from me.
Hey, I get your concerns. Kratom can be a bit of a mixed bag. It’s helped a lot of people with pain and cravings, but yeah, it does have its downsides. It’s not technically an opioid, but it does interact with the same receptors, so there’s a risk of dependency and withdrawal. Your therapist is right that it’s often used for opioid withdrawal, but the fact that it’s sold at gas stations doesn’t necessarily mean it’s all bad. See, if it’s helping you avoid alcohol, that’s a win. But it’s imp. to keep an eye on how much you’re using. The nausea and digestive issues are common, so adjusting your dose or trying different strains might help. It’s all about balance and finding what works best for you.
I would stay far away from any opioids.
My friend used it to help get off heroin, so in that respect I guess it's good. Using it to get sober from alcohol seems like transferring from one addiction to another, with a solid possibility of being addicted to both. It can also be extremely dangerous. It's unregulated. Gas station blends may just be a bunch of synthetics that can kill you. Other sources may contain mold or other contamination, which can also kill you. If you don't heavily vet your sources, you're playing with fire. And for what? Risking death and opioid addiction for a substance that tears up your stomach and doesn't even get you high? What's the point?
I feel this. I think the association of mild intoxication while consuming a beverage was helping curb my alcohol cravings, but it did taste horrible and make me incredibly nauseous. Plus the lack of regulation is scary to me as well.
It’s so gross and the effects are non existent. Unless someone has physical pain I don’t understand how anyone enjoys it.
What? I really enjoyed effects of kratom. Euforia, lower anxiety, motivation. Warm feeling over body. But they banned it in my country. It killed my alcohol cravings also.
You got shitty kratom.
I’ve tried all different types. I tried it for a few months from different places. It’s terrible
That’s too bad. I tried several crappy ones before I found a good, high quality vendor.
Don't do it for the reasons others have mentioned. You are better off with kava or CBD.
Swapping one addiction for another is never the answer
This, eventually you run out of things to be addicted to and have to go sober regardless. Im at the point ive been hooked/quit almost everything. Caffeine/nicotine are the last to go.
Nicotine is a tough one, probably harder for me than the alcohol was but it's been over 10 years now!. Love some caffeine, though!
There are a good number of people in my rehab for Kratom. Be careful
Kratom should be used for chronic pain and coming off harder opiates rather than doctor prescribed solutions. It's a powerful painkiller that does what a hydrocodine 10 will do. I take it daily for that reason. Without pain relief I'd be disabled. I used to be prescribed 10s and they are pretty addictive. And subs are worse than those. Took a friend of mine 6 months of hell to get off subs. Kratom is addictive but not as bad as those. I wouldn't try to take it though to trade for alcohol.