>Is it common in Europe?
Asking Dutch guys to compare all European Locker room etiquette?
It's usually relaxed. We don't care. Younger generations are more careful because of smartphones. Until you get to a certain age and you don't give a fuck again.
Many guys and girls grew up with teams sports and dressing rooms and showers that are for the whole team. So yeah.
The younger generation is dictated or heavily influenced by the unwillingness of Muslims to shower naked. That's not a rant or anything, but just a fact. Just as that 20 years ago "badkledingdagen" in saunas didn't exist.
Actually I'm quite surprised by your observation as FKK always has been far more a part of culture in Germany as it was here. The first nude beach in The Netherlands opened in the 70's. There are pictures of a whole German platoon bathing naked on a beach in France in WWII. I doubt that there were many other countries at the time where that was common or even acceptable.
We really cant keep blaming everything on Islam. Hockey players for instance have never even showered after a match. Not to many Muslims in those teams.
My former football club has literally no Muslim players. When i was young we were all naked and now they all shower in their underware.
Young boys are much more self aware then they were 20 years ago. This probably has a lot of contributing factors. I would look at social media first.
But claiming this is because of Islam is based on nothing really.
I don't agree. I know more then one story of youth football teams that had always showered naked, until the Muslim kids suddenly started taking showers in their underwear and the rest followed. It is no secret that Islam is a religion/culture of prudery and shame for nudity. So was Christianity, by the way, in a sense, as the Netherlands was heartily prudish before the 1950s. Thanks to secularisation and sexual revolution from the 1960s onwards, that has changed.
>I know more then one story of youth football teams that had always showered naked, until the Muslim kids suddenly started taking showers in their underwear and the rest followed.
That happened in my football team when a new player joined the team that showered in underwear. Slowly others started doing the same. We were early teens I think?
Of course age plays a role as well. I would not even consider taking showers in my undies when someone in my team started doing that. But teenage lads feel more insecure about themselves and their body, plus they are easier to influence and are more likely to succumb to peer pressure. So if one guy decides to cover his willy for religious or cultural reasons, the rest will follow soon. I think it is important that we teach young people in the Netherlands that showering naked is not only more hygienic, but also part of the liberal Dutch culture and that it is not necessary to be ashamed of your body, all parts included.
Maybe because they didn't really want to be naked and the muslims showed you don't have to be.
Thats how it went for me.
I showered naked with other guys after gym class but only because I thought there was no other way.
Well, actually there is no other good way, because showering in (used) underwear is not hygienic. And it's stupid to wash your body with clothes on. Like going to the hairdresser and keeping a baseball cap on.
But have you asked yourself the question why you find it a problem that team mates see you naked? Why would you be ashamed of your body?
Not hygienic? Got a source?
You realize that water runs in your ass crack when showering and then hits the ground?
So it wouldn't be hygienic anyway.
Have people ever gotten sick from others showering with their underwear?
Idk, I just become a little self-conscious. I don't know why because I look great physically.
It seems very rare to me to be totally comfortable with it.
Like most would only do it if they have to, could be wrong here.
First: The purpose of taking a shower is to get yourself clean. Your underwear covers the dirtiest parts of your body, which are the areas that require extra attention and proper hygiene. By covering these areas with underwear, you’re preventing them from getting as clean as they need to be. Instead of shielding those parts of your body in the shower, make an extra effort to get them as clean as possible.
Second:If you wear dirty underwear, cleaning yourself is pointless. Even after you’ve soaped and scrubbed yourself in the shower, you’ll still be wearing something dirty. Shampoo and body soap are not designed to properly clean clothing, so the fact that the dirty underwear has probably been rinsed with the soap and shampoo that you’re using does not make it as clean as it needs to be.
You can stretch your boxers forward and catch all that water and body soap into your crotch. While nobody will see your private part.
Your second point sounds so extremely germphobic. Like if you are bothered by that then you might as well stay home all day because 91% of people pick their nose, many don't wash their ass after pooping etc etc. we are just disgusting bastards.
The "not getting properly cleaned with boxers" argument just makes me suspect someone tries to find a reason to reject a behavior that they don't like and cleanliness is a nice excuse.
Not saying you are like that but I've heard this argument before.
I understand that you feel insecure about your private parts and don't want to shower naked with other guys around. But why all the hassle, with the demonstrative stretching of your sweaty underwear and taking home your soaked underwear in your sporting bag, with the sole aim to keep anyone from seeing your willy? Why won't you just take a shower alone, at home, and save yourself and your teammates your personal struggle with insecurity and self-acceptance?
As for my supposed germophobia, maybe it's time you educated yourself on the basic rules of personal hygiene. Thanks to teaching people "germophobic" behavior, such as washing your hands and body adequately, numerous deadly diseases are a thing of the past. In fact, without all those people with germophobia, the shower wouldn't even exist 😄
>You realize that water runs in your ass crack when showering and then hits the ground?
I fear you just admitted you don't shower correctly. Please do actually wash your ass from now on, instead of just letting the watter fall to the ground.
>Hockey players for instance have never even showered after a match.
I played hockey and we always showered after a match. Naked, btw.
Also, things happen for more than one reason, you are acting like it has to be either this or that, black and white. All of muslim influence, the rise of smartphones with cameras and self awareness will play a role.
Even if muslim boys were the first to wear underwear it makes no sense to call it muslim influance.
Non muslim boys didnt follow that example because of Islam. They did it because of insecurities.
You either genuinely do not understand what I say - and then it's pointless to try and explain it - or you are asking in bad faith, and then it's also pointless to try and explain it.
I never said islam made us wear underpants in the shower. The only thing I said is that you treat it like a thing that happened for exactly one reason and all other possible reasons must be wrong, while it clearly is a thing that happened for a multitude of reasons combined.
I'm not debating muslim influence. I'm debating your lack of logical thinking.
Just a little thing, badkledingdagen isn't just because of influence of other religions.
It has to do with money and so making sure everybody can enjoy a spa day means allowing a whole new group of people to enter. A lot of Dutch people aren't comfortable with showing all of their skin. Some of my coworkers, as white and Dutch as one can get, love those days.
So true. I’m male and my male cousin and I used to enjoy going to the sauna together when I still lived there around 18 years ago. We went on badkledingdagen - it would feel very odd going to the sauna naked together!
Islam definitely plays a role in the renewed prudishness among young people. Those who deny this may be doing so mainly out of a form of political correctness. But there are indeed other factors to blame for prudish youth. It is not a question of black or white.
No, they’re saying that some people would never go to a spa if they had to be naked, but they will on a badkledingdag. Having badkledingdagen means they feel comfortable going, and the spa makes more money because people come who otherwise wouldn’t.
It's a fact but when I was in highschool 20+ years ago I hated to shower with others. It's so unnecessary imo.
Why should I need to watch others naked or they me?
You are teenagers plus girls from other religions looking at you with disdain no thanks.
I love the sauna but only go on badkledingdagen. Why?
I don't want to puke and see some old dudes ball sack or some tittie's who are almost dragging on the floor.
I don't give a damn about who sees me (got two kids so any shame I may had disappeared when the first one was born 🤣.) But prefer when people have clothing on.
Naturism/Nudism is really a western European thing. It is way less common in the US or east Europe.
In Japan sauna’s are widely accepted as normal, but not sure if they actually do nudism.
Islam is certainly a fact. But I think its more because of the smartphones.
Me, personally, don’t care if friends see me naked. But random people. Hell no.
In Europe, but especially in the Netherlands, etiquette dictates that you greet each person by flailing your penis around like a helicopter whilst making siren sounds.
I dont get the whole showeing with clothes thing. Sometimes you see people at the gym showering in the same underpants they had on while working out. Why would you shower in those? Nothing gets cleaned down there.
Personally I find the mesh that's often on the inside of swimming trunks to be very uncomfortable against my privates, plus wearing boxers keeps everything together instead of it flopping around.
The mesh keeps my privates in check just fine. As a teen I used to wear boxer beneath the swimming trunks as well, but I cant imagine doing it nowadays. Seems more uncomfortable then a wet swimming trunks already is. I guess it came from insecurity or something.
I don't like to wear tight swimming trunks. I need manuevreability and some room. With flopping around I mean I don't want my dick or balls to wave anyone hello from the underside of one of the pant legs, or for any of my bits to get tangled between the mesh and the trunks. I also shave down there, and the mesh getting caught on the short hairs there is quite painful.
Well don't know in the rest of Europe but here yes. Why not? Most kids do some sports when they are young like soccer or hockey and they shower there together aswel. So most peope are used to it I guess.
The gym where I go to there are plenty of people that get there in there workout outfit and leave in it when they are done. Not saying that they all don't like using the shower/changing room there but there will be some.
If you're just going to the gym and back I understand, shower at home is nicer. Depends on the season as well though (outerwear).
If you're staying for drinks afterwards I do advise a shower. As I recall from school days, there were people who relied on a dousing with deodorant as an alternative, usually Axe. This is not advisable.
Just don't shower with underwear on (it's very antihygenic) and you'll be fine. And don't bring electronic devices to the sauna/showers (mobile phones, smartwatches, etc) as this is very rude.
>Is it common in Europe? Asking Dutch guys to compare all European Locker room etiquette? It's usually relaxed. We don't care. Younger generations are more careful because of smartphones. Until you get to a certain age and you don't give a fuck again. Many guys and girls grew up with teams sports and dressing rooms and showers that are for the whole team. So yeah.
The younger generation is dictated or heavily influenced by the unwillingness of Muslims to shower naked. That's not a rant or anything, but just a fact. Just as that 20 years ago "badkledingdagen" in saunas didn't exist. Actually I'm quite surprised by your observation as FKK always has been far more a part of culture in Germany as it was here. The first nude beach in The Netherlands opened in the 70's. There are pictures of a whole German platoon bathing naked on a beach in France in WWII. I doubt that there were many other countries at the time where that was common or even acceptable.
The influence from Islam is a fact indeed.
We really cant keep blaming everything on Islam. Hockey players for instance have never even showered after a match. Not to many Muslims in those teams. My former football club has literally no Muslim players. When i was young we were all naked and now they all shower in their underware. Young boys are much more self aware then they were 20 years ago. This probably has a lot of contributing factors. I would look at social media first. But claiming this is because of Islam is based on nothing really.
I don't agree. I know more then one story of youth football teams that had always showered naked, until the Muslim kids suddenly started taking showers in their underwear and the rest followed. It is no secret that Islam is a religion/culture of prudery and shame for nudity. So was Christianity, by the way, in a sense, as the Netherlands was heartily prudish before the 1950s. Thanks to secularisation and sexual revolution from the 1960s onwards, that has changed.
>I know more then one story of youth football teams that had always showered naked, until the Muslim kids suddenly started taking showers in their underwear and the rest followed. That happened in my football team when a new player joined the team that showered in underwear. Slowly others started doing the same. We were early teens I think?
Of course age plays a role as well. I would not even consider taking showers in my undies when someone in my team started doing that. But teenage lads feel more insecure about themselves and their body, plus they are easier to influence and are more likely to succumb to peer pressure. So if one guy decides to cover his willy for religious or cultural reasons, the rest will follow soon. I think it is important that we teach young people in the Netherlands that showering naked is not only more hygienic, but also part of the liberal Dutch culture and that it is not necessary to be ashamed of your body, all parts included.
Maybe because they didn't really want to be naked and the muslims showed you don't have to be. Thats how it went for me. I showered naked with other guys after gym class but only because I thought there was no other way.
Well, actually there is no other good way, because showering in (used) underwear is not hygienic. And it's stupid to wash your body with clothes on. Like going to the hairdresser and keeping a baseball cap on. But have you asked yourself the question why you find it a problem that team mates see you naked? Why would you be ashamed of your body?
Not hygienic? Got a source? You realize that water runs in your ass crack when showering and then hits the ground? So it wouldn't be hygienic anyway. Have people ever gotten sick from others showering with their underwear? Idk, I just become a little self-conscious. I don't know why because I look great physically. It seems very rare to me to be totally comfortable with it. Like most would only do it if they have to, could be wrong here.
First: The purpose of taking a shower is to get yourself clean. Your underwear covers the dirtiest parts of your body, which are the areas that require extra attention and proper hygiene. By covering these areas with underwear, you’re preventing them from getting as clean as they need to be. Instead of shielding those parts of your body in the shower, make an extra effort to get them as clean as possible. Second:If you wear dirty underwear, cleaning yourself is pointless. Even after you’ve soaped and scrubbed yourself in the shower, you’ll still be wearing something dirty. Shampoo and body soap are not designed to properly clean clothing, so the fact that the dirty underwear has probably been rinsed with the soap and shampoo that you’re using does not make it as clean as it needs to be.
You can stretch your boxers forward and catch all that water and body soap into your crotch. While nobody will see your private part. Your second point sounds so extremely germphobic. Like if you are bothered by that then you might as well stay home all day because 91% of people pick their nose, many don't wash their ass after pooping etc etc. we are just disgusting bastards. The "not getting properly cleaned with boxers" argument just makes me suspect someone tries to find a reason to reject a behavior that they don't like and cleanliness is a nice excuse. Not saying you are like that but I've heard this argument before.
I understand that you feel insecure about your private parts and don't want to shower naked with other guys around. But why all the hassle, with the demonstrative stretching of your sweaty underwear and taking home your soaked underwear in your sporting bag, with the sole aim to keep anyone from seeing your willy? Why won't you just take a shower alone, at home, and save yourself and your teammates your personal struggle with insecurity and self-acceptance? As for my supposed germophobia, maybe it's time you educated yourself on the basic rules of personal hygiene. Thanks to teaching people "germophobic" behavior, such as washing your hands and body adequately, numerous deadly diseases are a thing of the past. In fact, without all those people with germophobia, the shower wouldn't even exist 😄
>You realize that water runs in your ass crack when showering and then hits the ground? I fear you just admitted you don't shower correctly. Please do actually wash your ass from now on, instead of just letting the watter fall to the ground.
No, I wash my ass in the shower, thanks for your concern though. Missed the point buddy.
>Hockey players for instance have never even showered after a match. I played hockey and we always showered after a match. Naked, btw. Also, things happen for more than one reason, you are acting like it has to be either this or that, black and white. All of muslim influence, the rise of smartphones with cameras and self awareness will play a role.
Even if muslim boys were the first to wear underwear it makes no sense to call it muslim influance. Non muslim boys didnt follow that example because of Islam. They did it because of insecurities.
I am not interested in discussing semantics.
No, you just like to throw blame around without any nuance or cause.
That’s exactly what you are doing, you don’t want nuance but only want a single explanation. No nuance allowed.
So explain to me then how Islam made us wear underpants in the shower?
You either genuinely do not understand what I say - and then it's pointless to try and explain it - or you are asking in bad faith, and then it's also pointless to try and explain it. I never said islam made us wear underpants in the shower. The only thing I said is that you treat it like a thing that happened for exactly one reason and all other possible reasons must be wrong, while it clearly is a thing that happened for a multitude of reasons combined. I'm not debating muslim influence. I'm debating your lack of logical thinking.
Just a little thing, badkledingdagen isn't just because of influence of other religions. It has to do with money and so making sure everybody can enjoy a spa day means allowing a whole new group of people to enter. A lot of Dutch people aren't comfortable with showing all of their skin. Some of my coworkers, as white and Dutch as one can get, love those days.
So true. I’m male and my male cousin and I used to enjoy going to the sauna together when I still lived there around 18 years ago. We went on badkledingdagen - it would feel very odd going to the sauna naked together!
You're saying badkledingdagen are cheaper somehow? I'm really confused here.
He means it creates more income because the sauna draws more customers. Some of those customers might even transition to the nude days later on.
I am saying that putting it religions is wrong. Because those days didn't come into existence because of that.
Islam definitely plays a role in the renewed prudishness among young people. Those who deny this may be doing so mainly out of a form of political correctness. But there are indeed other factors to blame for prudish youth. It is not a question of black or white.
No, they’re saying that some people would never go to a spa if they had to be naked, but they will on a badkledingdag. Having badkledingdagen means they feel comfortable going, and the spa makes more money because people come who otherwise wouldn’t.
It's a fact but when I was in highschool 20+ years ago I hated to shower with others. It's so unnecessary imo. Why should I need to watch others naked or they me? You are teenagers plus girls from other religions looking at you with disdain no thanks. I love the sauna but only go on badkledingdagen. Why? I don't want to puke and see some old dudes ball sack or some tittie's who are almost dragging on the floor. I don't give a damn about who sees me (got two kids so any shame I may had disappeared when the first one was born 🤣.) But prefer when people have clothing on.
+ people became fatter (yeah even in NL) which generally makes your hog smaller when soft
Naturism/Nudism is really a western European thing. It is way less common in the US or east Europe. In Japan sauna’s are widely accepted as normal, but not sure if they actually do nudism. Islam is certainly a fact. But I think its more because of the smartphones. Me, personally, don’t care if friends see me naked. But random people. Hell no.
I grew up playing basketball so I still hang out with my teammates almost naked, but it is nice that you are more body-positive up north.
Yes i second that almost everyone i knew was playing soccer as kids
In Europe, but especially in the Netherlands, etiquette dictates that you greet each person by flailing your penis around like a helicopter whilst making siren sounds.
How nice and friendly
Wait..what?...what happened to Swaffelen? ;)
That's only if one person is sitting down
When in doubt whip it out
It has its dangers for an oversized dude man
I'll make sure I'll do so, I am just afraid I might slap someone standing too close since it is a little oversized
username checks out!
Then you shake hands by grabbing each other by the Henry.
😂😂😂😂😂
Can confirm. I'm a pariah because I can't master the helicopter. The wildly flailing worm just didn't do the trick.
At a certain age gravity gets the upper hand and we can even ‘Chinook’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a0DbzUe-r4Q
Ah, the Dutch windmills.
It's weird, I know. But in The Netherlands we do shower without clothes.
I dont get the whole showeing with clothes thing. Sometimes you see people at the gym showering in the same underpants they had on while working out. Why would you shower in those? Nothing gets cleaned down there.
And they're still going to have to take of those pants at some point. Also, you're then stuck with a pair of soaking wet briefs.
But but but, we wear underwear under our swimming trunks!!
Bro why do you wear boxers under your swimming trunks?!
Personally I find the mesh that's often on the inside of swimming trunks to be very uncomfortable against my privates, plus wearing boxers keeps everything together instead of it flopping around.
If it's flopping around, maybe the sizing of your swimming trunks is a little too 'optimistic'?
The mesh keeps my privates in check just fine. As a teen I used to wear boxer beneath the swimming trunks as well, but I cant imagine doing it nowadays. Seems more uncomfortable then a wet swimming trunks already is. I guess it came from insecurity or something.
I don't like to wear tight swimming trunks. I need manuevreability and some room. With flopping around I mean I don't want my dick or balls to wave anyone hello from the underside of one of the pant legs, or for any of my bits to get tangled between the mesh and the trunks. I also shave down there, and the mesh getting caught on the short hairs there is quite painful.
I see your point in struggling to keep everything together but it is still impractical man
Why is it impractical? I just bring an extra pair of boxers when I go for a swim
I don't but I see plenty of dutchies do that lmao.
Well don't know in the rest of Europe but here yes. Why not? Most kids do some sports when they are young like soccer or hockey and they shower there together aswel. So most peope are used to it I guess. The gym where I go to there are plenty of people that get there in there workout outfit and leave in it when they are done. Not saying that they all don't like using the shower/changing room there but there will be some.
If you're just going to the gym and back I understand, shower at home is nicer. Depends on the season as well though (outerwear). If you're staying for drinks afterwards I do advise a shower. As I recall from school days, there were people who relied on a dousing with deodorant as an alternative, usually Axe. This is not advisable.
Same in England. Who cares if another blokes got his cock out? Unless he’s outside your window.
You get Windows in your locker rooms? Cool! 😎
Its only proper locker room etiquette to lock swords after making eye contact. Acknowledge each others existence.
Just don't shower with underwear on (it's very antihygenic) and you'll be fine. And don't bring electronic devices to the sauna/showers (mobile phones, smartwatches, etc) as this is very rude.
Does anyone under 25 shower without underwear? I have the feeling this was introduced by some groups and now has been adopted by everyone.
Well, usually it's only people from certain cultural backgrounds who do it, for reasons that are beyond my comprehension.
Don't dutch wear underpants under their swimming trunks?