My boomer parents introduced me to Dave Ramsey… long story short I followed his advice and soon found myself not even eligible for a house- with no debt history no bank wanted to give me a loan despite having almost 20% down. (It was also 2009), meanwhile my parents bought their third house while constantly shaking their heads about my “lack of effort” and “not saving enough”, I hadn’t taken a vacation in 5 years.
Sit down and do the math with them. Show them the market prices and cost for down payment, and the job market salaries. Whatever their suggestion, play it out for them.
I've had a couple of friends do this with their parents, and they were just shocked at how wrong their perspectives were.
Yep. I'm Gen X or Millennial depending on what I read, and I had to show my dad cost of living, inflation, and all that good shit. It was like he had an epiphany. He had been asking why I didn't have any money. So I broke it down for him. I'm *slightly* better off than most people (I think?), but I have to work 60 hours a week and bang out overtime hours to get comfy. At my age, that's not sustainable. I'm already slowing down to compensate for having my foot on the gas for 20 years. I'm TIRED. I value my free time so much more now because I need it to rest. So I can go back to work and pay bills. Sigh...
My dad was an alcoholic, and it was so bad he was no longer allowed at his government job and they were in the process of firing him. For those of you not in the know, it's kind of hard to get fired in the government and it's apparently a long process.
He was basically starting from scratch and was asking for my help after years of telling me I'm not doing enough and I needed to get a real job.
He applied at my job and got the position. He then quit a week later saying it was too difficult for him. I mean, it probably was, it was 12 hour shifts in a warehouse 5 days a week. He was a late 40s alcoholic who had been working a desk job for the last decade.
He finally admitted he didn't understand what I was going through and what it was like about a month before he passed.
I really hate that that's what it took for him to realize things weren't as easy as he made them out to be.
I’m 29, I started working at 16 but in my early 20s I was working 3 freaking jobs. And all I feel now is regret. I wish I had valued myself and my time more. It’s seriously contributing to my moments of serious self doubt and anger at myself.
Be kind to your younger self! They were doing what they thought was best at the time. You can't change the past, all you can do is change how you spend your time and energy now.
It's hard to let go of regret, as we all know, but if you don't try to move on it will consume you. That hole is deep, dark, and staggeringly difficult to haul yourself out of once you put yourself in it.
You are smarter and stronger than you realize. Forgive your younger self and do what's right for current you.
Edit: I hope you don't feel like you need to change careers and it's overwhelming to consider. You absolutely can! My mother didn't even get to finish college until she was in her 50s. My grandma went back to school in her 50s and began an entirely new career. Anything is possible at any age.
And unfortunately they still get to vote and will continue to vote for the same political choices that have lead us to the situation we are currently in.
I doubt this would work. I was shocked to find out how financially illiterate the boomer generation really is. At my parent’s time, it was ok for one person to work a full time job while raising a family and still being able to afford a home. Now, the market relies on two people working full time jobs and pooling their income in hope of affording a living that slightly exceeds survival level.
My mom used to say things like this but then when her children (my brother and I) were actually looking for homes to buy she couldn’t believe the prices even in our fairly LCOL area. She now has a different tune at least in terms of housing costs. She still has boomer opinions on a lot of other things though lol.
Dave Ramsey is the AA of debt.
He was a nepo baby and got loan terms that were too good for anyone that didn't have deep connections to the bank. When the bank got bought out the new bank called the loans in. He drowned in the debt.
Dave can't control himself, so he won't let anyone near debt if he can. It's not the best advice, but it's good advice for an addict
I'm not an alcoholic so I won't listen to an alcoholic on how to better handle my relationship with alcohol.
Similarly I can control myself financially so I'm not gonna listen to someone who couldn't and burned out
I did the Dave Ramsey thing and, with no debt history, got a 3.75% loan in 2012. Most of that was luck that my local credit union was willing to do manual underwriting (also known as non-traditional underwriting, although it used to be *the* traditional way to do things). I tried shopping rates and only found one other lender that was willing to work with me, though.
So how much longer till the house was paid off? What we did was make extra payments and got our 30 year mortgage down to just 13 or so years. We did this by adding an extra $200 to the payment every month, and also putting our tax returns, which are not allot, maybe an extra $1000 a year to the mortgage. All I could think of the entire time is how much I hated living with debt and wanted out from under it. I never run up debt and try and pay cash for everything on top of that. Best advice I can give people is get out of debt as fast as you can.
> Best advice I can give people is get out of debt as fast as you can.
This should just be pummeled into peoples brains all the time. I have met all these people getting crushed under credit card debt where if they just paid it down they would have MORE MONEY because the interest part of the payment would no longer be there, at all.
Depending on the home loan interest rate, it might (MIGHT) have a small caveat. Some of my co-workers have these fixed 30 year loans at 2.2% interest. They get higher raises than that every year. So that isn’t nearly as bad as a credit card at 36% interest: https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/highest-credit-card-interest-rate-2140660307/
But based on how bad some people are with financial concepts, I think the message “debt is always super bad and costs you EXTRA money you could have kept in your wallet” is a solid message.
I disagree with it
I dont like dept neither, but my mortage is 1% fixed (running for another 15y)
(Belgium before theres confusion)
From a financial pov im much better even saving the money on a savings account than use that money to pay off (interest rates on savings account is 2.5% at the moment)
And thats not yet accountinf for inflation (which with my interest rate, the value of the amount im paying back is actually lower than originally borrowed
Just some perspectivebits not always the best
My MIL was always on wife & I's backs about why we couldn't afford a house on our combined salary even though we both earned more than her ex-husband did at his age (she never worked until they divorced)
Very condescendingly bought us a session with a financial advisor to "sort our finances out" I was pissed & didn't want to go, but wife talked me into it.
Financial advisor looked through our spending habits, income etc for like 5 minutes then said "if you guys want to buy a house you'll have to earn about 40% more, I don't see any fat to trim in your finances, except that you shouldn't be wasting money on a financial advisor"
2009 was after the housing crash, banks did not want to lend money out, plus what was your credit score, if you had a good credit score and your DTI ratio fit you should have been approved.
If they were following Ramsey's advice then they likely didn't have a credit score.
Ramsey is basically debtor's anonymous. He believes that all debt is inherently evil and if you take it a single loan you'll become addicted. Not even 30 year mortgages are allowed (he eventually conceded on 15 year mortgages with 20% down).
If they were actually following his advice, there wouldn't be any credit history to look at and so they would be considered high risk.
I'll be honest, it's been a while since I struggled. Things turned around for me when I started owning businesses. However, when I worked for people it was a challenge to sace enough to get 20% down. I, too, followed Dave Ramsey. I will say paying off all debt is foolish. I would advise you to pay any debt that you can't make more on investing. Sounds like you did that but most likely your credit is poor or your debt to income sucks. So two ways around that obtain a larger down payment beyond 20% to increase loan to value ratio from the bank end or find ways to improve your credit score. I have a cash back rewards credit card that I pay off everymonth where I pay no interest and earn 2%.I would try to do something like this to earn credit. Just make damn sure you can pay it each month.
IMHO, Dave Ramsey is out of touch now
His advices are only for people who inherited large sum of capital or lottery winners.
He talk about putting it in growth funds like it has zero risk, and even if you decide to invest, all you will be doing will be just catching up with the inflation.
Only sensible investment would be real estate, but barrier to entry is so high right now, so to normal people like me, it's not feasible.
People who are trying to build up from the ground up are fucked and so am i
Dave Ramsey is only good for people who have zero self control and blow up credit cards. His investment advice is all trash and scammy (to high-fee mutual funds he gets advertising dollars from), and his thoughts on good debt are awful.
> no bank wanted to give me a loan despite having almost 20% down. (It was also 2009)
In this case, it was clearly a major screwup by the banks and government. In 2008, we had a major housing bubble crash and the end of the NINJA loans and bank fraud.
As a result, most everyone was denied a loan. I've been following investment shows for a long time and the callers were all saying that even with perfect credit, they weren't allowed to get a loan.
IIRC, it took a few years to correct.
That phrase pisses me off just because the type of people who use it don’t realize that it’s supposed to be used sarcastically…
It’s supposed to mean something that’s physically impossible. Like, even if you’re the strongest person in the world, no matter how hard you pull, you can’t make yourself levitate by pulling upwards on your boots.
And then you have these human parrots, with similar intelligence and half the charisma of their avian counterparts, squawking about “if you don’t want to be poor just ‘do the definition of something physically impossible.’”
It’s exhausting lol
We Millenials are quickly becoming the new Gen X in terms of being forgotten. All the same struggles Gen Z is facing, Millenial’s are as well.
But All the media headlines are about Boomers v GenZ now.
Boomers have called every generation after them lazy. They called Gen X the slacker generation. They called Millennials lazy too, even though the avg millennials are working multiple jobs or gig work.
It's because it gets clicked. Boomers know millennials irl and know these stories are lies. Boomers do not know gen z people irl, so they're more likely to click out of curiosity and more likely to believe the lies in these news headlines. And given that they're the primary paying audience (clicks on ads), what matters is getting clicks from them.
Boomers/older people consume that outrage stuff. Gives them a reason to be upset over something that gives them either the slightest inconvenience or doesn’t even affect them personally.
Two decades in many cases. I feel like a monumental change in society is coming. The only thing holding it back is the boomers and their trillions in assets.
Gen X here.
I lived with 3 roommates in a rented apartment, sometimes four. I didn't own my own home until I was 46.
I'm not sure where this misconception emerged that you graduated into your own house beyond those coming from rich families.
I've also never heard a Baby Boomer say a word about this.
Did you have kids before you bought your house?
I think a lot of people, myself included, grew up in a house our parents owned, and now I am much older than they were when they had me, and it still feels like a home is a ways off. But we desire the financial stability of home ownership before having children because that’s what we were raised with.
That is a ridiculous technicality. You know what people mean when they say home owner. They “bought” a home with a down payment and monthly mortgage they could reasonably afford with a portion of their income. That is still considered home ownership colloquially.
>Millennials in America have hit a significant milestone according to the latest data from the U.S. Census Bureau: a homeownership rate of 51.5%.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/06/states-highest-millennial-homeownership-rate-scholaroo-study.html
Meanwhile the [number of hours Americans work](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/US_working_hours_1950-2014.png) has been dropping since the 50s.
That’s because they afford $30,000 cars, $1500 phones? $500 restaurant budgets, and can’t or won’t do anything for themselves. I’m a millennial by the way. I own a house. I work a blue dollar job, for far less than the average person makes in my area.
It’s not the nicest house around. In fact, it’s probably one of the worst houses near me. It’s also an area where home prices are near double the national average. Taxes are also extremely high here.
Know what I don’t have? Fancy cars, a new iPhone or ten subscriptions for tv streaming. I very rarely eat out, or go out for drinks. I bought this house when I was 23 years old. I bought this house instead of wasting my money on “fancy” things just so others would think I was cool. Then I became the cool 25 year old who owned his own house.
There are plenty of us who can afford a house just fine -- certainly those who have worked full time for a decade.
If you can't then what are you doing differently from those who can?
51% of millenials own a home. You're talking to kids, young adults, and people that live in areas where housing is an investment.
If you live in an area where your home is likely to appreciate for as much or more then what you paid then home ownership is going to be basically impossible.
Just about anywhere else is reasonable. And the LCOL area you go to the easier it is. People making 15 to 18 an hour here own homes.
I’m also a millennial and afforded a home.
That’s a small fraction of the total impact on ones ability to do so. The old trope of “I did it so anyone can” needs to die an unceremonious death.
My neighbors on both sides are millennials that bought their houses years ago. My brother is a millennial and on shopping for his fourth house. You just have to cut back on the avocado toast a little.
If only those boomers would *actually* sell their houses. The fucking supply of available homes in desirable places is completely gone. Those boomers need to hurry it up and croak.
The real problem is corporations.
Boomers are the current punching bag that corps have paraded out for us to hyper fixate on.
Ex: 28% of all homes in Austin, TX are owned by "institutional investors" (aka corps)
What's worse is this article, like most corporate run media, blames everyone but the people truly responsible. The people with power and money. The corporations, the companies, the millionaires were responsible. They manipulated the media, lobbied the government, and ruined this country. All while making sure normal people would not be able to tell, by manipulating us into fighting each other.
While true, the most immediate fix is to force institutional investors to sell off all of their ownership of single family homes as only primary residences within a fixed time period at the median cost of comparables the same way mortgage companies do for home buyers.
It's "not fair" to them because they'll surely lose a lot of money, but they chose to exploit the system and should get burned for acting in bad faith.
Yeah that too. Hey, if that bill passes, maybe we’ll be in luck!
But you’d be suprised, that I think when you look at like, the number of houses relative to Americans, we have less then is seen to be neccecary for a healthy market. Houses need to be in surplus cuz you can’t just not have a home if you wanna sell.
Not that I know what I’m talking about, I’m just regurgitating something that someone smarter then me.
I mean the answer is absolutely both, and listen to what that person said cuz they're dead on the money.
You can Google healthy rental vacancy rates if you want to learn more about it.
I'm in New Hampshire and our vacancy rate is 1-2%.
I know we're talking about home ownership but rental vacancy trends strongly with homes for sale on the market
"Why the fuck aren't you able to buy this house (1.5 million), I bought it when I was your age (at 30k)."
In the same breath:
"These socialist lunatics want to raise minimum wage? Over my dead body!"
I think one thing that people fail to mention is how much the holders of capital have negatively affected Gen Z's life, and how there might be lingering resentments around that
Two big reasons Gen Z can't buy a house:
1. institutional investors buying up available real estate to then resell at higher rates
2. current homeowners trying to inflate the value of their housing by opposing all new developments that would increase the supply and therefore lower prices
Alright, so what about renting? Big problem here: there's basically no regulations on rent, meaning that each lease cycle, rent is going to increase massively so companies can maximize profits. For those who don't have rent increases, this also negatively affects them because they're now stuck in their one area. Moving from a place that doesn't gouge on rent is a terrible idea
During COVID, a third option opened: work remotely, and live in a relatively lower cost of living area. This was snuffed out with RTO mandates, which are widely acknowledged to be for the sole purpose of inflating commercial real estate
So yeah, there's this huge adversarial relationship between Gen Z and the people who hold capital (often times, boomers and corporations). That's why they don't care about work ethic. They're working for the very people making their lives miserable intentionally
Now the holders of capital are trying to kill the third option by forcing people to RTO.
Although WFH is better for productivity, work life balance, physical and mental health of employees, it does not benefit the owners of commerical estates or employers who want to have more control of their employees' lives.
Why do you say "holders of capital" instead of just saying "employers"? It's a weird phrasing.
Meanwhile, forcing RTO doesn't work. With the economy growing rapidly and labor demand still growing briskly, any employer who overreaches with RTO faces a large risk of seeing workers leave.
So, can they try? Sure. Will it work? Probably not as well as they think.
I mean I'm not trying to be a dick but the oldest gen z is 27 and the average age of the first home buyer since 1993 is 32.
Millenials graduated college right into a housing crisis where no one was writing loans so trust me it seeming insurmountable was very real to us as well.
The reality is 51% of millenials still own a home. Unless you live in an area where a home could also be considered an investment, which is most of the country, home ownership isn't that far out of reach.
If you live in an area that housing is an investment, where it really is almost insurmountable, you most likely are putting a lot more in retirement then others. That honestly in the long run will most likely get you a home with more play money.
Renting is cheaper then owning a home.
The institutional investor stuff is such a myth. They're a minor or regional factor at best.
> “The evidence does not support the contention that institutional investors have a major impact on home prices,” said Paul Fiorilla, director of research at Yardi Matrix, a data provider in the commercial property/single family rental sector. “Any segment that owns such a small percentage of the market cannot have that much of an impact on prices,” with the possible exception of a handful of communities with a significant concentration of big investors.
> Moreover, the sharp increase in mortgage interest rates engineered by the Federal Reserve has cooled the ardor of institutional investors. **Landlords with 1,000 properties or more accounted for 0.4 percent of U.S. home purchases during the second quarter, down from a peak of 2.4 percent in late 2021,** according to John Burns Research & Consulting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/30/black-hole-robert-f-kennedy-jrs-housing-conspiracy-theory/
My kid works harder than any boomer I've ever known. Frustratingly I've tried to convince them that's wrong and that they're being exploited, but the reason for all this B.S. questioning work ethic is to prime kids to be exploited.
I'm just their parent, I can't compete with the entire media landscape telling them they're lazy and worthless and deserve nothing.
My kid does, despite my efforts to change that. It's frustrating, but it's not a surprise that their old man can't compete with slickly produced media content and good looking talking heads.
I don't blame them. I don't know why it's so hard for the Boomers to acknowledge this either. I'm GenX, and even with a housing bubble built solidly into my younger professional years and living in a very expensive housing market, our dual income could buy a house that was 4x our salary.
I've had this argument with multiple family members. Large corporate concerns running out and buying up available residential housing supply has significantly changed the market, and it's nothing like what it was when they were buying (or when I was, for that matter).
This a huge understatement. SO many things are different from the ground up compared to previous “older” generations. I explained the corporate purchasing of houses en masse to my wife’s family and they looked at me like I was crazy.
Of course they’re well off and live in a VERY HCOL but were able to buy in when the are was considered “out there”.
It's crazy when you go to zillow to see the lower end houses. Here you will see houses that were 120k just 2 years ago and had 40k worth of the cheapest materials thrown in and selling for 300k.
At this point I may look into building on an acre lot. Not sure If builders would even fuck with a 2 bedroom house. But it has to be cheaper than what's out here
Man I make 19 an hour and it blows my mind how much the cost of everything has risen. Shit sucks. There's no winning it seems for the average American. We're All up shit creek without a paddle
By the numbers: The median age of all buyers increased from **31 in 1981** to **49 in 2023**. Its record high was 53 last year, compared to 42 a decade ago. **First-time buyers were a median of 35 in 2023 — up from 31 in 2013 and 29 in 1981**. Repeat buyers were 58 — up from 52 in 2013 and 36 in 1981.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023
Yes. Older people are moving more.
It used to be you move into a house and live there 30 years and rip up your mortgage documents.
That wasn't good enough for a certain generation.
So what was your original point? I thought it was that people didn’t first purchase a house till they were almost 30. Yet now they aren’t purchasing their first house till 35. Will that be closer to 45 or 50 in the next decade?
They bought a home about 5 years after getting married and combining finances. Millenials arw doing the same but getting married later.
If gen z wants to afford homes they should get married and save for 5+ years.
I think you’re just trying to get into semantics instead of just recognizing the data that directly opposes your original point.
But if you want to get into that, the “5 years after getting married and combining finances” in the 1970s and 1980s looked a lot different then than now.
Now it takes a dual income household instead of just a single income household.
So now we’re back at the title, and point of this whole post, which is dual income Gen Zers are over working 40+ hours a week and still not be able to afford a house that a single income household could in 1981.
“The system that allowed me to have a home and grow wealthy is eternal and unchanging. My experiences are universal, so what worked for me will work for you. If you’re not successful, it’s strictly your fault.”
Boomerism is a way of thinking more than a generation. It’s just that the chronic lead exposure made a big part of that generation think that way.
It's not that it's that boomers had extremely hard working parents then had way more success than them.
In their eyes it has to be their work because they did so much better than their parents and their parents were workers.
Then add in they expected to die in a nuke as a child and the real possibility of getting drafted.
You never really stop seeing the world from the eyes of your youth so it takes a lot of empathy to change as you age. Empathy is not something they were shown/taught as children by their parents.
So you end up with a generation of cold assholes with no skill set to recognize that or change.
They all have houses, I think we deserve a house also, therefore they are all assholes because they lived at time when that was achievable? Boomers are scum because the economy worked better for them? Do you think the reason you don’t have a home is because they do?
Lol same, and it's practically everyone at my work. They all have side hustles and approach the job with a take it or leave it attitude. It's great, really.
Dummy! And here I was on the grind, graduating hs and investing in real estate with lunch money I saved up from starving myself. I was able to move into a cardboard box the day I graduated. Jealous? Yeah, thought so.
Glad to see Gen Z catching on earlier than later. I have my work ethic questioned by my tool of a coworker who loves to assume superiority because of years worked at this specific workplace, and the abusive bullshit that follows when my “lazy” actions end up just being smarter than hers. Almost as if I know what I’m doing and am more interested in efficiency instead of beelining to burnout.
If you know you work hard, if you feel exhausted when you return home from work, if you feel consumed by the concern that you aren’t working hard enough and then feel confused on how you could be a harder worker, than anyone who challenges your work ethic or your competence is an asshole trying to play you. Fuck them.
Gen Z rejecting their exploitative bullshit couldn’t make me any prouder as a millennial. I just wish all of both of our generations would figure it out, not just the majority. A minority can still be a pain in the ass for all of us.
This is the whiny, lazy attitude the are complaining about, lol. Personally I think that despite all of the supposed compassion and focus on feelings, millennials are generally bad at introspection.
I mean a lot of people that get into this mindset where they can't own a home aren't realizing a lot of it is the area. If housing is an investment then yes it's going to be expensive.
In most areas it's not unachievable. Plus where would they run to? Housing prices being an issue is basically a universal first world issue at the moment.
Eh, boomers grew up dirt poor, expecting to be nuked, and with the real possibility of getting drafted. Vietnam went on for 20 years.
I'm good on growing up then.
I just looked it up. In 1980 nearly all Boomers were under 30. In the 1980 presidential election (Reagan's first presidential election), 18-21 year olds voted 45-44 for Carter, and 22-29 voted an even 44-44 for Reagan and Carter. They also only made up 23% of the voting population.
The >30 year old groups made up 77% of the voting population, and voted 55-39 for Reagan. **So you can't really blame Reagan on the Boomers, he won due to older generations.**
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-1980
you have to remember the boomers are a weird generation distribution. It goes from 1945-1964. Those born in the 40's were over 30, and they spent their early years without TV - those didn't even penetrate more than 50% of the household until around 54-55. Some of the kids that are considered baby boomers are kids OF baby boomers, as the average age of first children in 1964 was only 22, but states outside of the east/west coast it was closer to 19.
Plus, kids that had their teen years in the late 50's had an IMMENSELY different outlook than ones who did their teens in the late 60's. My dad talked about this, the youngest kids in the family are way different than his older siblings because of what they went through, especially living in California.
I believe that a lot of those under 30 people were duped by the successes of the economy improving in 82-84. I know that's when a few of my uncles went antiunion and towards the right from talking with my mom about it. As they got older a lot of people got very jaded and went further right, even those who still leaned 'left' were right of where they were in the 70's.
Bidens proposal to stop Wall Street/ Hedgefund to buy single family homes is the first step. Investors should have a limit of the number of single family homes they can buy. How can a family compete with Wall Street with its infinite cash.
It's about momentum. Working and seeing growth is completely different than working and going in debt or staying stagnant. Or stagnant without having any sort of security or equity in the modern world. Many people start off driven, and if they are not rewarded, they will lose drive. At the same time, society pushes materialism, addiction, consumerism, etc. Let's find a balance guys. Many boomers are poor also. Don't fall for the generational war that the elites are pushing. Same as the race war. They want you to forget about the 1%. The boomer landlords with 2 tiny houses for rent that they planned for as their retirement income are not the same as the wealthy with 2 trillion in equity. Don't fall for it!
Surprisingly... America has always been a workaholic nation. Sometimes out of necessity sometimes not by choice. But the protestant work ethic is still going strong and has no signs of slowing down anytime soon.
Yey for more Generational Warfare clickbait.
Maybe because I come from a working class family in the rust belt, but my Boomer family and neighbors were incredibly hard-working and frugal people.
I come from an era of peace while being 37 and working with predominantly 50+.
If you just lean into their bullshit (even a tiny bit), but maintain your values the other 16, you can game the system. My boss is 60+ but when I start talking sports and dumb guy stuff, my job security goes over 9000.
Is it an issue with work ethic or the fact Gen Z spends a disproportionately larger fraction of their income on goods and services categorized as "pampering"?
I am a boomer and I notice the younger generation really think boomers became successful and financially set early in life. It did not happen then and it does not happen now.
I remember it being common practice for a young person/couple buying a fixer upper starter home and using sweat equity and time to start building equity. It is rarely the case these days.
I remember boomers being married and living with parents or inlaws to build up a decent account to buy that first fixer upper.
I remember boomers not going on lavish high school and college break trips.
I remember boomers living at home and commuting to college instead of living on campus.
I remember how little boomers ate in restaurants.
I remember how little boomers ate or drank in fast food or convenance stores.
I remember how little boomers went on plane trips.
I remember European vacations being a rich persons luxury.
I remember inflation of 15 percent.
I remember the serious struggles that gen Z is currently complaining about.
I just remember there was no online forums where the previous generation had to listen to the whining.
PS, I absolutely remember working my ass off for family, friends and community and enjoying the fruits of my labor later in life.
I get to enjoy my children following in my footsteps.
I do not have any doubts that my children will be successful happy and satisfied with there lives.
I think there's something to be said about work culture also. Boomers and elder GenZers grew up with companides where promotion was possible. There was hope.
Now with all thd job hopping amd massive layoffs, theres no comoany culture, no hope that employees will grow with a company. No hope or vision for a future.
I've been a contractor for over 5 yrs without benefits; capitalism or whatever economy we have sucks. I live frugal enough 🫠
I stay away from professional scammers and liars, especially the ones that work for the government or like health industry or any things like that cuz they always trying to go after you
Like I asked questions all the time and if you can't answer my questions with a straight face, I already immediately know you're a f****** liar and I'm done with you
Gen X here. My parents didn’t buy a home until their 50s. They spent their first 10 years in this country working mostly 12-hour days, 6-days per week.
I myself did;r buy a home with my wife until my 40a. And I had to move to another state, since single family detached home where I lived were over $1 million.
If you want to afford a home, try looking at Columbus, OH. Homes under $200,000.
The Columbus area has about a million people. So there are jobs.
But that’s the thing about expensive places. They are expensive because so many people want to live there so they compete for jobs and housing (and social services and aid from charities and food banks).
There weren't many jobs around and I remember counting the ads in the newspaper one day and there were only 42. After awhile you get to the age that nobody will hire you outside of your career path.
Perhaps the most retarded boomer beliefs is that the more you work the better. Ultimately it's your goal to put yourself in a position where you work less and earn more.
My pre-boomer dad joined the Air Force and flew during the Vietnam War. And he was able to afford a house - in Hawaii.
Get your nose out of your cell phone.
Boomers had less work per day before email, cell phones, slack, etc.
I’m spread across four projects with people in five time zones.
Wtf did they do for 8hr/day?
If you have a solid work ethic and can manage a budget you will probably be fine. A lot of people refuse to provide a written budget when confronted with finance problems because it includes lots of unnecessary things. It's important to really learn what is required and what is not. Just had a guy ring my doorbell a few minutes ago wanting to sell me pine straw installed for $6 a bale. It's probably the fourth one that has come by in the last 2 months that I've told I'm not interested. I could see the look in his eyes and he really really wanted me to buy but it's just not something I want. It would have easily been $300 worth of pine straw and at the moment I just don't care. I have the money but I'm also very cheap and that's one of the reasons I do have the money. Make sure you do have a written budget and make sure you review it regularly and get rid of the dead weight. Always force yourself to live below your means. I'm 64 years old and I've only been on three vacations in my life. I'm very happy though. It's fun to virtual travel through YouTube too. I learned today that Kyrgyzstan has a McDonald's and a KFC. Who knew. The borrower is slave to the lender
Cannot wait till the boomers get old and realize they fucked the younger generation and we all laugh at them as they rot away with no family and no help
You reap what you sow….
I've read predictions that when they all retire everything will fall apart because they are just barely holding the incompetent together. I'm a little worried about that prediction, especially when I read Reddit threads like this and see the millennial comments like this.
What a joke, Boomers never even worked. All they did was sit around and smoke weed. We've all seen "Fast Times..." we know what happened with the Boomers.
Boomers just need to shut up and go take another bong hit.
Gen z are a bunch of whiney bitches. Due to social media they think they deserve the things that previous generations worked years for at the beginning of their careers.
What an extremely out of touch comment.
Most Zoomers don’t have much disposable income to begin with, and a $200 laptop here or a $60 pair of shoes there from Amazon is not going to make an insurmountable difference in terms of being able to afford a house if their $15-20 jobs & side gigs 60-80hrs/wk is not enough.
Millennials know what it’s like to work 40+ hours a week for a decade and still not be able to afford a house.
You just need to adjust your bootstraps.
My boomer parents introduced me to Dave Ramsey… long story short I followed his advice and soon found myself not even eligible for a house- with no debt history no bank wanted to give me a loan despite having almost 20% down. (It was also 2009), meanwhile my parents bought their third house while constantly shaking their heads about my “lack of effort” and “not saving enough”, I hadn’t taken a vacation in 5 years.
Sit down and do the math with them. Show them the market prices and cost for down payment, and the job market salaries. Whatever their suggestion, play it out for them. I've had a couple of friends do this with their parents, and they were just shocked at how wrong their perspectives were.
Yep. I'm Gen X or Millennial depending on what I read, and I had to show my dad cost of living, inflation, and all that good shit. It was like he had an epiphany. He had been asking why I didn't have any money. So I broke it down for him. I'm *slightly* better off than most people (I think?), but I have to work 60 hours a week and bang out overtime hours to get comfy. At my age, that's not sustainable. I'm already slowing down to compensate for having my foot on the gas for 20 years. I'm TIRED. I value my free time so much more now because I need it to rest. So I can go back to work and pay bills. Sigh...
My dad was an alcoholic, and it was so bad he was no longer allowed at his government job and they were in the process of firing him. For those of you not in the know, it's kind of hard to get fired in the government and it's apparently a long process. He was basically starting from scratch and was asking for my help after years of telling me I'm not doing enough and I needed to get a real job. He applied at my job and got the position. He then quit a week later saying it was too difficult for him. I mean, it probably was, it was 12 hour shifts in a warehouse 5 days a week. He was a late 40s alcoholic who had been working a desk job for the last decade. He finally admitted he didn't understand what I was going through and what it was like about a month before he passed. I really hate that that's what it took for him to realize things weren't as easy as he made them out to be.
I’m 29, I started working at 16 but in my early 20s I was working 3 freaking jobs. And all I feel now is regret. I wish I had valued myself and my time more. It’s seriously contributing to my moments of serious self doubt and anger at myself.
Be kind to your younger self! They were doing what they thought was best at the time. You can't change the past, all you can do is change how you spend your time and energy now. It's hard to let go of regret, as we all know, but if you don't try to move on it will consume you. That hole is deep, dark, and staggeringly difficult to haul yourself out of once you put yourself in it. You are smarter and stronger than you realize. Forgive your younger self and do what's right for current you. Edit: I hope you don't feel like you need to change careers and it's overwhelming to consider. You absolutely can! My mother didn't even get to finish college until she was in her 50s. My grandma went back to school in her 50s and began an entirely new career. Anything is possible at any age.
I actually went back to school! It’s helping to keep me sane!
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And unfortunately they still get to vote and will continue to vote for the same political choices that have lead us to the situation we are currently in.
I doubt this would work. I was shocked to find out how financially illiterate the boomer generation really is. At my parent’s time, it was ok for one person to work a full time job while raising a family and still being able to afford a home. Now, the market relies on two people working full time jobs and pooling their income in hope of affording a living that slightly exceeds survival level.
The market doesn't require it. The guys who own the corporations and demand infinite growth in profits require it.
My mom used to say things like this but then when her children (my brother and I) were actually looking for homes to buy she couldn’t believe the prices even in our fairly LCOL area. She now has a different tune at least in terms of housing costs. She still has boomer opinions on a lot of other things though lol.
They don’t realize how deep those beliefs from their own youth go. For a lot of them, houses are still in the 300k range and down payment is cheap.
Heh to be fair there’s a lot of areas where home are still in the 300s. Just bought one recently.
no impossible
Dave Ramsey is the AA of debt. He was a nepo baby and got loan terms that were too good for anyone that didn't have deep connections to the bank. When the bank got bought out the new bank called the loans in. He drowned in the debt. Dave can't control himself, so he won't let anyone near debt if he can. It's not the best advice, but it's good advice for an addict I'm not an alcoholic so I won't listen to an alcoholic on how to better handle my relationship with alcohol. Similarly I can control myself financially so I'm not gonna listen to someone who couldn't and burned out
I did the Dave Ramsey thing and, with no debt history, got a 3.75% loan in 2012. Most of that was luck that my local credit union was willing to do manual underwriting (also known as non-traditional underwriting, although it used to be *the* traditional way to do things). I tried shopping rates and only found one other lender that was willing to work with me, though.
So how much longer till the house was paid off? What we did was make extra payments and got our 30 year mortgage down to just 13 or so years. We did this by adding an extra $200 to the payment every month, and also putting our tax returns, which are not allot, maybe an extra $1000 a year to the mortgage. All I could think of the entire time is how much I hated living with debt and wanted out from under it. I never run up debt and try and pay cash for everything on top of that. Best advice I can give people is get out of debt as fast as you can.
> Best advice I can give people is get out of debt as fast as you can. This should just be pummeled into peoples brains all the time. I have met all these people getting crushed under credit card debt where if they just paid it down they would have MORE MONEY because the interest part of the payment would no longer be there, at all. Depending on the home loan interest rate, it might (MIGHT) have a small caveat. Some of my co-workers have these fixed 30 year loans at 2.2% interest. They get higher raises than that every year. So that isn’t nearly as bad as a credit card at 36% interest: https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/highest-credit-card-interest-rate-2140660307/ But based on how bad some people are with financial concepts, I think the message “debt is always super bad and costs you EXTRA money you could have kept in your wallet” is a solid message.
I disagree with it I dont like dept neither, but my mortage is 1% fixed (running for another 15y) (Belgium before theres confusion) From a financial pov im much better even saving the money on a savings account than use that money to pay off (interest rates on savings account is 2.5% at the moment) And thats not yet accountinf for inflation (which with my interest rate, the value of the amount im paying back is actually lower than originally borrowed Just some perspectivebits not always the best
In 2012, the property was only $150k, whereas now it's $350k where I live.
Dave Ramsey's methods are outdated. They may work for Boomers and GenX, but not in today's world.
My MIL was always on wife & I's backs about why we couldn't afford a house on our combined salary even though we both earned more than her ex-husband did at his age (she never worked until they divorced) Very condescendingly bought us a session with a financial advisor to "sort our finances out" I was pissed & didn't want to go, but wife talked me into it. Financial advisor looked through our spending habits, income etc for like 5 minutes then said "if you guys want to buy a house you'll have to earn about 40% more, I don't see any fat to trim in your finances, except that you shouldn't be wasting money on a financial advisor"
2009 was after the housing crash, banks did not want to lend money out, plus what was your credit score, if you had a good credit score and your DTI ratio fit you should have been approved.
If they were following Ramsey's advice then they likely didn't have a credit score. Ramsey is basically debtor's anonymous. He believes that all debt is inherently evil and if you take it a single loan you'll become addicted. Not even 30 year mortgages are allowed (he eventually conceded on 15 year mortgages with 20% down). If they were actually following his advice, there wouldn't be any credit history to look at and so they would be considered high risk.
I'll be honest, it's been a while since I struggled. Things turned around for me when I started owning businesses. However, when I worked for people it was a challenge to sace enough to get 20% down. I, too, followed Dave Ramsey. I will say paying off all debt is foolish. I would advise you to pay any debt that you can't make more on investing. Sounds like you did that but most likely your credit is poor or your debt to income sucks. So two ways around that obtain a larger down payment beyond 20% to increase loan to value ratio from the bank end or find ways to improve your credit score. I have a cash back rewards credit card that I pay off everymonth where I pay no interest and earn 2%.I would try to do something like this to earn credit. Just make damn sure you can pay it each month.
IMHO, Dave Ramsey is out of touch now His advices are only for people who inherited large sum of capital or lottery winners. He talk about putting it in growth funds like it has zero risk, and even if you decide to invest, all you will be doing will be just catching up with the inflation. Only sensible investment would be real estate, but barrier to entry is so high right now, so to normal people like me, it's not feasible. People who are trying to build up from the ground up are fucked and so am i
It’s for people that are doing okay and don’t budget.
Dave Ramsey is only good for people who have zero self control and blow up credit cards. His investment advice is all trash and scammy (to high-fee mutual funds he gets advertising dollars from), and his thoughts on good debt are awful.
Get em back, don’t pay for thier elderly care and complain about their lack of effort
> no bank wanted to give me a loan despite having almost 20% down. (It was also 2009) In this case, it was clearly a major screwup by the banks and government. In 2008, we had a major housing bubble crash and the end of the NINJA loans and bank fraud. As a result, most everyone was denied a loan. I've been following investment shows for a long time and the callers were all saying that even with perfect credit, they weren't allowed to get a loan. IIRC, it took a few years to correct.
"Hadn't taken a vacation in 5 years" Lmfao your benchmark is so skewed no wonder boomers tear into you.
That phrase pisses me off just because the type of people who use it don’t realize that it’s supposed to be used sarcastically… It’s supposed to mean something that’s physically impossible. Like, even if you’re the strongest person in the world, no matter how hard you pull, you can’t make yourself levitate by pulling upwards on your boots. And then you have these human parrots, with similar intelligence and half the charisma of their avian counterparts, squawking about “if you don’t want to be poor just ‘do the definition of something physically impossible.’” It’s exhausting lol
What should I do when I’ve torn the bootstraps off from pulling on them so often?
Hey you put that Starbucks down okay. Instead have Folgers black and then die at work.
Shit Gen X here in the same situation.
We Millenials are quickly becoming the new Gen X in terms of being forgotten. All the same struggles Gen Z is facing, Millenial’s are as well. But All the media headlines are about Boomers v GenZ now. Boomers have called every generation after them lazy. They called Gen X the slacker generation. They called Millennials lazy too, even though the avg millennials are working multiple jobs or gig work.
It's because millennials don't play the game. Gen Z is still naive enough to give boomers the time of day.
It's because it gets clicked. Boomers know millennials irl and know these stories are lies. Boomers do not know gen z people irl, so they're more likely to click out of curiosity and more likely to believe the lies in these news headlines. And given that they're the primary paying audience (clicks on ads), what matters is getting clicks from them.
Boomers/older people consume that outrage stuff. Gives them a reason to be upset over something that gives them either the slightest inconvenience or doesn’t even affect them personally.
Two decades in many cases. I feel like a monumental change in society is coming. The only thing holding it back is the boomers and their trillions in assets.
Gen X here. I lived with 3 roommates in a rented apartment, sometimes four. I didn't own my own home until I was 46. I'm not sure where this misconception emerged that you graduated into your own house beyond those coming from rich families. I've also never heard a Baby Boomer say a word about this.
This is what kills me. The average person works, struggles and accumulates wealth over time. It’s not a given.
Did you have kids before you bought your house? I think a lot of people, myself included, grew up in a house our parents owned, and now I am much older than they were when they had me, and it still feels like a home is a ways off. But we desire the financial stability of home ownership before having children because that’s what we were raised with.
Overwhelmingly, people grew up in homes that had 30- years mortgages. They didn't own the homes.
That is a ridiculous technicality. You know what people mean when they say home owner. They “bought” a home with a down payment and monthly mortgage they could reasonably afford with a portion of their income. That is still considered home ownership colloquially.
>Millennials in America have hit a significant milestone according to the latest data from the U.S. Census Bureau: a homeownership rate of 51.5%. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/06/states-highest-millennial-homeownership-rate-scholaroo-study.html Meanwhile the [number of hours Americans work](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/US_working_hours_1950-2014.png) has been dropping since the 50s.
nope people on reddit can't accept this fact
Where did this data come from?
The sources are in the links. Did you even click on them? Or are you just trying to attack the data because you don't like it?
Does this include part time? Surprised it’s under 40 in the 50s and today. Nobody I know works under 40.
you missed the train
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That’s because they afford $30,000 cars, $1500 phones? $500 restaurant budgets, and can’t or won’t do anything for themselves. I’m a millennial by the way. I own a house. I work a blue dollar job, for far less than the average person makes in my area. It’s not the nicest house around. In fact, it’s probably one of the worst houses near me. It’s also an area where home prices are near double the national average. Taxes are also extremely high here. Know what I don’t have? Fancy cars, a new iPhone or ten subscriptions for tv streaming. I very rarely eat out, or go out for drinks. I bought this house when I was 23 years old. I bought this house instead of wasting my money on “fancy” things just so others would think I was cool. Then I became the cool 25 year old who owned his own house.
There are plenty of us who can afford a house just fine -- certainly those who have worked full time for a decade. If you can't then what are you doing differently from those who can?
51% of millenials own a home. You're talking to kids, young adults, and people that live in areas where housing is an investment. If you live in an area where your home is likely to appreciate for as much or more then what you paid then home ownership is going to be basically impossible. Just about anywhere else is reasonable. And the LCOL area you go to the easier it is. People making 15 to 18 an hour here own homes.
I'm a millennial and afforded a home. It all depends what one's financial choices and expectations are.
I’m also a millennial and afforded a home. That’s a small fraction of the total impact on ones ability to do so. The old trope of “I did it so anyone can” needs to die an unceremonious death.
50% of millennials own..
haves and have nots. Not a good sign.
Capables and incapables end up as have and have nots.
I don't know a single millennial who owns a house and wasn't born into money, got lucky with bitcoin, or joined the military.
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My neighbors on both sides are millennials that bought their houses years ago. My brother is a millennial and on shopping for his fourth house. You just have to cut back on the avocado toast a little.
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"You just need to save up for a bigger down payment." Not realizing prices go up faster than you can save.
Not realizing many people simply just can’t save at all…
It's because they bought a couple Starbucks and own an iPhone, duh!
It's why you invest your down payment in the stock market: the stock market goes up faster than housing prices.
Boomers are upset at zoomers for not buying their house and kicking them to a nursing home. The irony.
If only those boomers would *actually* sell their houses. The fucking supply of available homes in desirable places is completely gone. Those boomers need to hurry it up and croak.
The real problem is corporations. Boomers are the current punching bag that corps have paraded out for us to hyper fixate on. Ex: 28% of all homes in Austin, TX are owned by "institutional investors" (aka corps)
What's worse is this article, like most corporate run media, blames everyone but the people truly responsible. The people with power and money. The corporations, the companies, the millionaires were responsible. They manipulated the media, lobbied the government, and ruined this country. All while making sure normal people would not be able to tell, by manipulating us into fighting each other.
Fr, the govt needs to build more houses for the housing crisis to resolve
While true, the most immediate fix is to force institutional investors to sell off all of their ownership of single family homes as only primary residences within a fixed time period at the median cost of comparables the same way mortgage companies do for home buyers. It's "not fair" to them because they'll surely lose a lot of money, but they chose to exploit the system and should get burned for acting in bad faith.
Yeah that too. Hey, if that bill passes, maybe we’ll be in luck! But you’d be suprised, that I think when you look at like, the number of houses relative to Americans, we have less then is seen to be neccecary for a healthy market. Houses need to be in surplus cuz you can’t just not have a home if you wanna sell. Not that I know what I’m talking about, I’m just regurgitating something that someone smarter then me.
I mean the answer is absolutely both, and listen to what that person said cuz they're dead on the money. You can Google healthy rental vacancy rates if you want to learn more about it. I'm in New Hampshire and our vacancy rate is 1-2%. I know we're talking about home ownership but rental vacancy trends strongly with homes for sale on the market
"Why the fuck aren't you able to buy this house (1.5 million), I bought it when I was your age (at 30k)." In the same breath: "These socialist lunatics want to raise minimum wage? Over my dead body!"
I think one thing that people fail to mention is how much the holders of capital have negatively affected Gen Z's life, and how there might be lingering resentments around that Two big reasons Gen Z can't buy a house: 1. institutional investors buying up available real estate to then resell at higher rates 2. current homeowners trying to inflate the value of their housing by opposing all new developments that would increase the supply and therefore lower prices Alright, so what about renting? Big problem here: there's basically no regulations on rent, meaning that each lease cycle, rent is going to increase massively so companies can maximize profits. For those who don't have rent increases, this also negatively affects them because they're now stuck in their one area. Moving from a place that doesn't gouge on rent is a terrible idea During COVID, a third option opened: work remotely, and live in a relatively lower cost of living area. This was snuffed out with RTO mandates, which are widely acknowledged to be for the sole purpose of inflating commercial real estate So yeah, there's this huge adversarial relationship between Gen Z and the people who hold capital (often times, boomers and corporations). That's why they don't care about work ethic. They're working for the very people making their lives miserable intentionally
RTO mandate also just another name for a RIF without severance.
Now the holders of capital are trying to kill the third option by forcing people to RTO. Although WFH is better for productivity, work life balance, physical and mental health of employees, it does not benefit the owners of commerical estates or employers who want to have more control of their employees' lives.
Why do you say "holders of capital" instead of just saying "employers"? It's a weird phrasing. Meanwhile, forcing RTO doesn't work. With the economy growing rapidly and labor demand still growing briskly, any employer who overreaches with RTO faces a large risk of seeing workers leave. So, can they try? Sure. Will it work? Probably not as well as they think.
I mean I'm not trying to be a dick but the oldest gen z is 27 and the average age of the first home buyer since 1993 is 32. Millenials graduated college right into a housing crisis where no one was writing loans so trust me it seeming insurmountable was very real to us as well. The reality is 51% of millenials still own a home. Unless you live in an area where a home could also be considered an investment, which is most of the country, home ownership isn't that far out of reach. If you live in an area that housing is an investment, where it really is almost insurmountable, you most likely are putting a lot more in retirement then others. That honestly in the long run will most likely get you a home with more play money. Renting is cheaper then owning a home.
The institutional investor stuff is such a myth. They're a minor or regional factor at best. > “The evidence does not support the contention that institutional investors have a major impact on home prices,” said Paul Fiorilla, director of research at Yardi Matrix, a data provider in the commercial property/single family rental sector. “Any segment that owns such a small percentage of the market cannot have that much of an impact on prices,” with the possible exception of a handful of communities with a significant concentration of big investors. > Moreover, the sharp increase in mortgage interest rates engineered by the Federal Reserve has cooled the ardor of institutional investors. **Landlords with 1,000 properties or more accounted for 0.4 percent of U.S. home purchases during the second quarter, down from a peak of 2.4 percent in late 2021,** according to John Burns Research & Consulting. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/30/black-hole-robert-f-kennedy-jrs-housing-conspiracy-theory/
My kid works harder than any boomer I've ever known. Frustratingly I've tried to convince them that's wrong and that they're being exploited, but the reason for all this B.S. questioning work ethic is to prime kids to be exploited. I'm just their parent, I can't compete with the entire media landscape telling them they're lazy and worthless and deserve nothing.
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What years do you consider Zillenial?
'96 to '98 inclusive source: am Zillenial
Dumbest thing ever. You are gen z or a millennial.
Do they believe the media landscape?
My kid does, despite my efforts to change that. It's frustrating, but it's not a surprise that their old man can't compete with slickly produced media content and good looking talking heads.
I don't blame them. I don't know why it's so hard for the Boomers to acknowledge this either. I'm GenX, and even with a housing bubble built solidly into my younger professional years and living in a very expensive housing market, our dual income could buy a house that was 4x our salary. I've had this argument with multiple family members. Large corporate concerns running out and buying up available residential housing supply has significantly changed the market, and it's nothing like what it was when they were buying (or when I was, for that matter).
This a huge understatement. SO many things are different from the ground up compared to previous “older” generations. I explained the corporate purchasing of houses en masse to my wife’s family and they looked at me like I was crazy. Of course they’re well off and live in a VERY HCOL but were able to buy in when the are was considered “out there”.
It's crazy when you go to zillow to see the lower end houses. Here you will see houses that were 120k just 2 years ago and had 40k worth of the cheapest materials thrown in and selling for 300k.
Where I live, they’re selling manufactured homes with facelifts for 500k.
Hell naw 
I found 1300ft manufactured home for 370k on 1 acre but literally in the shadow of the dump.
At this point I may look into building on an acre lot. Not sure If builders would even fuck with a 2 bedroom house. But it has to be cheaper than what's out here
Man I make 19 an hour and it blows my mind how much the cost of everything has risen. Shit sucks. There's no winning it seems for the average American. We're All up shit creek without a paddle
The average age of a first time home buyer in 1981 was 29.
By the numbers: The median age of all buyers increased from **31 in 1981** to **49 in 2023**. Its record high was 53 last year, compared to 42 a decade ago. **First-time buyers were a median of 35 in 2023 — up from 31 in 2013 and 29 in 1981**. Repeat buyers were 58 — up from 52 in 2013 and 36 in 1981. https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023
Yes. Older people are moving more. It used to be you move into a house and live there 30 years and rip up your mortgage documents. That wasn't good enough for a certain generation.
So what was your original point? I thought it was that people didn’t first purchase a house till they were almost 30. Yet now they aren’t purchasing their first house till 35. Will that be closer to 45 or 50 in the next decade?
They bought a home about 5 years after getting married and combining finances. Millenials arw doing the same but getting married later. If gen z wants to afford homes they should get married and save for 5+ years.
I think you’re just trying to get into semantics instead of just recognizing the data that directly opposes your original point. But if you want to get into that, the “5 years after getting married and combining finances” in the 1970s and 1980s looked a lot different then than now. Now it takes a dual income household instead of just a single income household. So now we’re back at the title, and point of this whole post, which is dual income Gen Zers are over working 40+ hours a week and still not be able to afford a house that a single income household could in 1981.
According to statista the percentage of single income households was higher in 2022 than in 1980.
Do you have a link?
Source?
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023#
“The system that allowed me to have a home and grow wealthy is eternal and unchanging. My experiences are universal, so what worked for me will work for you. If you’re not successful, it’s strictly your fault.” Boomerism is a way of thinking more than a generation. It’s just that the chronic lead exposure made a big part of that generation think that way.
It's not that it's that boomers had extremely hard working parents then had way more success than them. In their eyes it has to be their work because they did so much better than their parents and their parents were workers. Then add in they expected to die in a nuke as a child and the real possibility of getting drafted. You never really stop seeing the world from the eyes of your youth so it takes a lot of empathy to change as you age. Empathy is not something they were shown/taught as children by their parents. So you end up with a generation of cold assholes with no skill set to recognize that or change.
They all have houses, I think we deserve a house also, therefore they are all assholes because they lived at time when that was achievable? Boomers are scum because the economy worked better for them? Do you think the reason you don’t have a home is because they do?
I’ve literally been in “What’s the point” mode for the last 5 years with work. Hard for me to care these days.
Lol same, and it's practically everyone at my work. They all have side hustles and approach the job with a take it or leave it attitude. It's great, really.
I should've invested in a house in 2008 instead of trying to graduate Highschool
Dummy! And here I was on the grind, graduating hs and investing in real estate with lunch money I saved up from starving myself. I was able to move into a cardboard box the day I graduated. Jealous? Yeah, thought so.
Glad to see Gen Z catching on earlier than later. I have my work ethic questioned by my tool of a coworker who loves to assume superiority because of years worked at this specific workplace, and the abusive bullshit that follows when my “lazy” actions end up just being smarter than hers. Almost as if I know what I’m doing and am more interested in efficiency instead of beelining to burnout. If you know you work hard, if you feel exhausted when you return home from work, if you feel consumed by the concern that you aren’t working hard enough and then feel confused on how you could be a harder worker, than anyone who challenges your work ethic or your competence is an asshole trying to play you. Fuck them. Gen Z rejecting their exploitative bullshit couldn’t make me any prouder as a millennial. I just wish all of both of our generations would figure it out, not just the majority. A minority can still be a pain in the ass for all of us.
This is the whiny, lazy attitude the are complaining about, lol. Personally I think that despite all of the supposed compassion and focus on feelings, millennials are generally bad at introspection.
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Just buy a house in 2007, when you are 5 years old. Great advice.
I mean a lot of people that get into this mindset where they can't own a home aren't realizing a lot of it is the area. If housing is an investment then yes it's going to be expensive. In most areas it's not unachievable. Plus where would they run to? Housing prices being an issue is basically a universal first world issue at the moment.
Boomers basically had everything handed to them tbh. Then they destroyed the economy after.
Eh, boomers grew up dirt poor, expecting to be nuked, and with the real possibility of getting drafted. Vietnam went on for 20 years. I'm good on growing up then.
No it was Reaganomics and trickle down that ruined everything.
Yes, and which demographic voted for all that?
Every single one alive at the time.
I just looked it up. In 1980 nearly all Boomers were under 30. In the 1980 presidential election (Reagan's first presidential election), 18-21 year olds voted 45-44 for Carter, and 22-29 voted an even 44-44 for Reagan and Carter. They also only made up 23% of the voting population. The >30 year old groups made up 77% of the voting population, and voted 55-39 for Reagan. **So you can't really blame Reagan on the Boomers, he won due to older generations.** https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-1980
you have to remember the boomers are a weird generation distribution. It goes from 1945-1964. Those born in the 40's were over 30, and they spent their early years without TV - those didn't even penetrate more than 50% of the household until around 54-55. Some of the kids that are considered baby boomers are kids OF baby boomers, as the average age of first children in 1964 was only 22, but states outside of the east/west coast it was closer to 19. Plus, kids that had their teen years in the late 50's had an IMMENSELY different outlook than ones who did their teens in the late 60's. My dad talked about this, the youngest kids in the family are way different than his older siblings because of what they went through, especially living in California. I believe that a lot of those under 30 people were duped by the successes of the economy improving in 82-84. I know that's when a few of my uncles went antiunion and towards the right from talking with my mom about it. As they got older a lot of people got very jaded and went further right, even those who still leaned 'left' were right of where they were in the 70's.
User name does not check out. Come on man. You can do better.
True that.
Bidens proposal to stop Wall Street/ Hedgefund to buy single family homes is the first step. Investors should have a limit of the number of single family homes they can buy. How can a family compete with Wall Street with its infinite cash.
It's about momentum. Working and seeing growth is completely different than working and going in debt or staying stagnant. Or stagnant without having any sort of security or equity in the modern world. Many people start off driven, and if they are not rewarded, they will lose drive. At the same time, society pushes materialism, addiction, consumerism, etc. Let's find a balance guys. Many boomers are poor also. Don't fall for the generational war that the elites are pushing. Same as the race war. They want you to forget about the 1%. The boomer landlords with 2 tiny houses for rent that they planned for as their retirement income are not the same as the wealthy with 2 trillion in equity. Don't fall for it!
In some places you cant even afford to rent a small aportmen with a fulltime job, exciting times... No wonder people go fucking crazy.
50% or more of Boomers have always been poor and struggled. They are also responsible for spoiling the next generation.
Been poor and struggled while also owning a home.
🤨
Surprisingly... America has always been a workaholic nation. Sometimes out of necessity sometimes not by choice. But the protestant work ethic is still going strong and has no signs of slowing down anytime soon.
Yey for more Generational Warfare clickbait. Maybe because I come from a working class family in the rust belt, but my Boomer family and neighbors were incredibly hard-working and frugal people.
Homeownership Rates United States 2000 1990 1980 1970 1960 66.2% 64.2% 64.4% 62.9% 61.9% https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/tables/time-series/coh-owner/owner-tab.txt
I come from an era of peace while being 37 and working with predominantly 50+. If you just lean into their bullshit (even a tiny bit), but maintain your values the other 16, you can game the system. My boss is 60+ but when I start talking sports and dumb guy stuff, my job security goes over 9000.
Is it an issue with work ethic or the fact Gen Z spends a disproportionately larger fraction of their income on goods and services categorized as "pampering"?
I am a boomer and I notice the younger generation really think boomers became successful and financially set early in life. It did not happen then and it does not happen now. I remember it being common practice for a young person/couple buying a fixer upper starter home and using sweat equity and time to start building equity. It is rarely the case these days. I remember boomers being married and living with parents or inlaws to build up a decent account to buy that first fixer upper. I remember boomers not going on lavish high school and college break trips. I remember boomers living at home and commuting to college instead of living on campus. I remember how little boomers ate in restaurants. I remember how little boomers ate or drank in fast food or convenance stores. I remember how little boomers went on plane trips. I remember European vacations being a rich persons luxury. I remember inflation of 15 percent. I remember the serious struggles that gen Z is currently complaining about. I just remember there was no online forums where the previous generation had to listen to the whining. PS, I absolutely remember working my ass off for family, friends and community and enjoying the fruits of my labor later in life. I get to enjoy my children following in my footsteps. I do not have any doubts that my children will be successful happy and satisfied with there lives.
Of course it’s not. Funko pops only get more expensive every year.
I think there's something to be said about work culture also. Boomers and elder GenZers grew up with companides where promotion was possible. There was hope. Now with all thd job hopping amd massive layoffs, theres no comoany culture, no hope that employees will grow with a company. No hope or vision for a future.
I've been a contractor for over 5 yrs without benefits; capitalism or whatever economy we have sucks. I live frugal enough 🫠 I stay away from professional scammers and liars, especially the ones that work for the government or like health industry or any things like that cuz they always trying to go after you Like I asked questions all the time and if you can't answer my questions with a straight face, I already immediately know you're a f****** liar and I'm done with you
Gen X here. My parents didn’t buy a home until their 50s. They spent their first 10 years in this country working mostly 12-hour days, 6-days per week. I myself did;r buy a home with my wife until my 40a. And I had to move to another state, since single family detached home where I lived were over $1 million. If you want to afford a home, try looking at Columbus, OH. Homes under $200,000.
Columbus, OH have a better job market than Florida?
The Columbus area has about a million people. So there are jobs. But that’s the thing about expensive places. They are expensive because so many people want to live there so they compete for jobs and housing (and social services and aid from charities and food banks).
most people before the 1950s in the US worked their whole lives and could never afford a house, get over yourselves.
As a boomer I don't know what it's like to work a 40 hour week which is why I haven't worked a 40 hour week since 1987
You’re getting downvoted, but I want to ask: you don’t work 40 bc you work less? Or (my hunch) you work more?
Normal week was 52 hours up to 65. I had bills to pay and I wanted to eat. Most of my family did the same thing.
Yup this is what I thought you meant. Thanks for clearing up.
But if you did, you could have afforded a home and basic necessities. Gen Z works 40 and can’t afford anything. That’s the difference.
I couldn't afford it if I only worked 40 hours.
Why didn't you just get a better job?
There weren't many jobs around and I remember counting the ads in the newspaper one day and there were only 42. After awhile you get to the age that nobody will hire you outside of your career path.
lol. This makes me question the Gen Z work ethic. And their perspective on history.
Perhaps the most retarded boomer beliefs is that the more you work the better. Ultimately it's your goal to put yourself in a position where you work less and earn more.
My pre-boomer dad joined the Air Force and flew during the Vietnam War. And he was able to afford a house - in Hawaii. Get your nose out of your cell phone.
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So brave.
Most Z’ers don’t know what it’s like to work 40 hours period…
gen z are lazy and constantly need someone to tell them they are doing the right thing.
Boomers had less work per day before email, cell phones, slack, etc. I’m spread across four projects with people in five time zones. Wtf did they do for 8hr/day?
>Wtf did they do for 8hr/day? Send 3 faxes and have a martini for lunch
You just made some Gen Z cry and question their mental health. Shame on you.
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Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. Using mental health as an excuse to justify all of your failures.
Gen Z working more than 40 hours a week? Does TikTok streaming count?
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40 hours a week is for kids
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Godspeed brother/sister/human/w.e
If you have a solid work ethic and can manage a budget you will probably be fine. A lot of people refuse to provide a written budget when confronted with finance problems because it includes lots of unnecessary things. It's important to really learn what is required and what is not. Just had a guy ring my doorbell a few minutes ago wanting to sell me pine straw installed for $6 a bale. It's probably the fourth one that has come by in the last 2 months that I've told I'm not interested. I could see the look in his eyes and he really really wanted me to buy but it's just not something I want. It would have easily been $300 worth of pine straw and at the moment I just don't care. I have the money but I'm also very cheap and that's one of the reasons I do have the money. Make sure you do have a written budget and make sure you review it regularly and get rid of the dead weight. Always force yourself to live below your means. I'm 64 years old and I've only been on three vacations in my life. I'm very happy though. It's fun to virtual travel through YouTube too. I learned today that Kyrgyzstan has a McDonald's and a KFC. Who knew. The borrower is slave to the lender
slave mentality
Cuck
Debate fail
Cannot wait till the boomers get old and realize they fucked the younger generation and we all laugh at them as they rot away with no family and no help You reap what you sow….
I've read predictions that when they all retire everything will fall apart because they are just barely holding the incompetent together. I'm a little worried about that prediction, especially when I read Reddit threads like this and see the millennial comments like this.
They sold out their children for a bigger $$$$ in their bank and they won't see grand kids.
And they gas light the next generation and say it’s their fault
What a joke, Boomers never even worked. All they did was sit around and smoke weed. We've all seen "Fast Times..." we know what happened with the Boomers. Boomers just need to shut up and go take another bong hit.
Gen z are a bunch of whiney bitches. Due to social media they think they deserve the things that previous generations worked years for at the beginning of their careers.
Yeah, that's why we worked overtime
More young people victim mentality articles.
Boomers also didn't have Amazon that would make buying useless shit way too easy.
What an extremely out of touch comment. Most Zoomers don’t have much disposable income to begin with, and a $200 laptop here or a $60 pair of shoes there from Amazon is not going to make an insurmountable difference in terms of being able to afford a house if their $15-20 jobs & side gigs 60-80hrs/wk is not enough.
I got my first workplace closing and lay off at 19, cry me a river. Generational warfare with the people who make the rules isn’t going to help.