Virgin radagon vs chad messmer
Radagon: marries a carian queen and leave her for what was litteraly himself because "muh greater Will said so"
Messmer: carian princess defect to follow him and becomes his Blade
Plus, she remained by his side even when his mother told him to fuck off and locked him in the shithole of deadland he created by her order, because he got a snake god stuck inside of him.
You need to be a fool to fumble a Carian princess, seriously. Those girls are capital L loyal.
Her rememberance says she couldn't give him succor.
She's just hanging around helping out hoping to be noticed but he's too rapt with agony and duty to care.
That's because he was basically melania but without a miquella to charm him from the immense pain of having an eldritch being within you nothing gave Him piece aside from the memories of when he was a baby held by his mother before he had the base serpent sealed behind his eye.
I wonder if there’s a connection to the serpent Rykard fed himself to and the Serpent within Messmer. Also the snake with wings symbolism is all over volcano manor, Messmer is the first god I’m seeing with that. Not sure any other spots
But the snake/fire/judgement-execution theme is heavy for both.
Since his second phase is called “Base Serpant” I think he’s the origin of the god devouring serpent. Kind of like how Loki gave birth to Jormangandr I think Messmer gave birth to the God devouring serpent. That’s why the Volcano manor has the winged abyssal serpent statues, they respect the mother snake. Only other evidence I have for this is Ymir. Even though Ymir is a man he can give birth and be a “mother” to fingers. If Ymir can birth these monstrosity’s then so to can Messmer.
Succor refers to helping people out of a bad situation, providing assistance to get them out of it.
Girl has been trying her best to free Messmer over the years but doesn’t know how to get them out of their situation. So all she can really do is provide her support for him. Messmer and Rellana are pretty tragic.
The hilarious thing is that the Greater Will didn't say so. The Greater Will fucked off ages ago. Although since the Greater Will is really just GRRM, I guess the Geedubs really did just say so. Food for though.
true
The Greater Will wasn't there for most of the time
It exists in the beyond, even it's daughter metyr lost the connection to it, and can't recieve messages from it anymore
so I think, that the greater will only wanted life to exist, creating the elden beast(which became the elden ring), and many problems with it, then fucked off literally
It has no wish to rule, It probably could force it's control on everyone in the lands between but it doesn't give a shit, it's a higher being after all
I thought it was more if a connection to Caria’s past as shown with the Sword of Night and Flame. Rennala’s main branch owns the singular sword, but Rellana owns a separate, divergent version of the sword. Both weapons are symbols of their Carian royal family.
Renalla's lore specifically calls out that she defected from the Carians to serve Messmer. Plus, the fire on her blade is that distinctive Messmer-y orange-red.
Malenia milena Marika miquella messmer (last two here aren't very close)
Godefroy godwyn Godfrey
Margit Margott mohg (Margott isn't very good at changing his name tbf)
Renalla rellana ranni
I lowkey hate that that’s what her lore is because it implies that people know messmer outside of the land of shadow especially when the cool part is that he was written out of history.
I suppose it's possible that she didn't know of him until travelling to the shadowlands and finding out.
I can't recall if it's mentioned why the Carians are there in the first place.
No, the SoNaF is giantsflame. Her sword is messmer’s fire.
So ive been beating her ass with SoNaF to teach her a lesson about using fire for destruction.
Yeah, ER is obviously a fantastic game and a true achivement (especially the DLC) but along with the way more fleshed out cut quests I think not having characters really respond to if you killed certain bosses really... lame.
It happens with lesser NPCs yet in regards to bosses they just don't seem to really care and IMO it kind of takes me out of the immersion of being an actual "person" in the world interacting with characters rather then just a player playing against bosses in a level.
Not even funny honestly the kind of interaction I EXPECTED
Gameplay 10/10
World building …I’m not done yet so I’ll just say, could’ve been so much better and usually IS
Have to agree on cut quests. Everyone and their mother has said it, but there was no reason to cut Kale's quest. It's existence makes the Frenzied Flame ending like 10× better...
Unlike Rennala. Who doesn't stand. She just kinda sits there. Or floats. Or lays on the ground. Never stands. No wonder Radagon left her, lazy as she is.
That's always made me wonder if it was more of like a triggered casting of the illusionary spell/battle rather than Ranni actually coming out to play or being conscious about it.
I'd also assume though that Ranni would feel her spell trigger? But it's unsure as to how magic works like that.
We do maybe get a glimpse of that with the DLC through a certain thing breaking, don't wanna spoil if you haven't gotten there.
> That's always made me wonder if it was more of like a triggered casting of the illusionary spell/battle rather than Ranni actually coming out to play or being conscious about it.
It is. That's why Ranni refers to you as a "foul trespasser" in the phase transition, even if you've already met her or even done her whole questline beforehand--it's a literally pre-recorded "stop beating up my mom, asshole" message that accompanies her illusion.
She should absolutely know if her spell triggered imo. It's one of the most powerful spells we've seen and she's pretty much next door.
Not to mention if she wanted to protect her mother, wouldn't she keep tabs on the spell and her specifically? She wouldn't just sit around and not have a way to check on her.
I wish people would stop excusing this with "that's just Souls games."
You can absolutely have both esoteric lore that leaves plenty of room for interpretation for years to come for those who want to deep dive AND a strong narrative that lets the player experience a complete story if they only want to play through it once.
I don’t think this is the worst example. I played it once and learned her backstory about >!leaving the Carina royal family for Messmer!< . What about Flan the Flame God?
These games don’t even really make it feel like you’re playing through a coherent story, even when there is one like in Sekiro. It’s hard to tell if the boss encounter or game sequence is a memory, a metaphor, a dream, reality. When you kill a boss, sometimes you’ll see it again. Sometimes they’ll talk to you or you’ll fight another version of it. You can’t insert conversation that changes the outcomes of anything. These games feel like they’re designed without a story, and then the story is inserted after the fact with environmental details, designs and item descriptions. If you erased all the parts of Elden Ring that tell you about the lore, you could just replace it all without changing anything about the game and it would probably still work.
When Miyazaki said it ‘wasn’t everything he wanted it to be’ I feel like this is the kind(s) of thing (s) he was talking about.
I think the next iteration of the ‘medieval souls’ will be better about this, and I’d be 100% okay if it wasn’t set in the mythos of the lands between that GRRM created. Much like his writing, the framework that determined how these narratives were written and interact is convoluted, bloated, and leaves too many loose ends. I know Miyazaki had much creative freedom with the characters themselves, but it still had to be done within the framework of the mythos created by GRRM.
Basically, I don’t want an Elden Ring 2. I want Miyazaki to take everything he learned from this, and do the damn thang.
This is one thing I really hope Fromsoft can change. Just give us a little more dialogue and cutscenes to make the story more consumable for the average Joe.
I'm honestly kinda pissed we don't get anything with St of Buds.
I actually killed her before Messmer so idk if the NPCS alluded to her relevance or anything?
Like she's a boss we have to kill, apparently seems really relevant, but we don't get really anything on her at all. I've been reading item descriptions like crazy too and can't piece together much about her.
At least with Rellana we get more items and can kinda piece shit together a little bit.
I actually found her before finding Mesmer, so I was ultra-confused. For a hot second I thought she was just a kind of optional boss until discovering I did actually have to deal with her annoying ass.
She’s just a Hornsent priestess that discovered rot during Messmer’s crusade that burned down her church, you can even see her in the story trailer, that figure on its knees with her pole blade as everything around her is on fire
Yeah there are parts of this DLC that were quite the disappointment to me honestly.
I'm not done yet but I think I am fairly close but just like you said every remembrance should have had a cutscene and they shouldnt treat the realm of shadow as some beginning place.
Exploring an area just to get some worthless smithing stones feels so annoying, we have to kill Mohg and Radahn to get into this place WE ARE ALL STACKED UP ON THOSE THINGS OR CAN BUY THEM AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF TIMES.
Of course it was,they created an entire world that’s half the size of the main game. If they delayed any longer the entire player base would have lost their collective minds that dlc hadn’t been released yet. So instead we got a pretty awesome new world, some really cool weapon concepts and bosses, and closure on one of the biggest speculations in the series. They certainly could have done more, but we’d be waiting another year or two to even play it.
I was very disappointed and confused to find out that there was no opening cutscene for the dlc. You just sort of teleport there leaving you confused as to what exactly the land of shadow is.
Pontiff is like, arguably the big bad of DS3. Almost everything currently going wrong with the world, aside from the fading of the flame, is either directly or indirectly caused by him in some way.
Its hilarious how easy it is to just have absolutely no idea that he's NOT just some priestly goober with glowy swords and an awesome fight, when he is in fact kind of one of the biggest reasons the world is currently in such dissaray.
I wish this dlc didn’t have some flaws but it unfortunately does. Example being some of the remembrance bosses not having any cutscenes just like you said.
Also when you defeat the final boss. No cutscenes or anything. Every npc is dead. No one reacts to what you do. You go back to the roundtable and become Elden Lord.
This really did annoy me, why is the only dialogue in the entire fight during the grab attack? Not even a quote when they kill you. Absolutely nothing at all
Yeah all the other souls games at least had something for beating the final boss of the DLC (DS - Sif recognizing you, DS2 - Vendricks blessing, DS3 - the last dialogue with the painter)
The Empyrean Grandam thanks you, and you get that memory of Miquella begging in the dark but yeah it's surprising how much is just slapped together without consequence or narrative.
Is the Grandam in Belurat meant to be an Empyrean? I thought it was just a hornsent named after a more historical/mythical Hornsent Empyrean named Grandam.
idk, just doesn't make sense to me that a Hornsent Empyrean would be allowed to live or go undetected.
Unless I'm misinterpreting something.
Grandam is just an old word for grandma, and the only Empyrean I think they'd know about in any recency is either Miquella or Marika. It'd make some sense how she escaped persecution in Bonny and was taught in the Shaman village to ascend Belurat to the Divine Gate.
Either that or she's the grandma of a dead Empyrean so she's regarded as a neutralized threat that's also somehow necessary as a living relic, which doesn't really seem in line with how Marika got down outside the Fire Giants...
people worshiping the crucible and specificly the lion empyran that probs belonged to the old lady or someone else atltough it is kinda pointless in a grand scheme comapred to the rest of the dlc.
I do have my own headcanon that tho.
that the place existed just to get burned as a revenge for what happend to Marikas village but idk
Holy shit that actually makes a lot of sense.
They worshipped an Omen— with horns
The Hornsent despise Marika and the Greater Will
Omens were part of the Crucible, so they were loved until they were hated. Marika blaming them for the death of her village could be the catalyzing moment
lol yeah man you just succinctly summarized the main plot of the DLC. >!Hornsent had power, they weren’t that great either, Marika got power and devastated the land of shadow in revenge. !<
I just got to the village before I had to start work for the day so Im slowly catching on 😂
Trying to avoid most lore videos/walkthrus or anything until I finish everything that I find
Apparently Ymir taught Rellana and maybe even Renalla in the ways of moon sorceries, but abandoned its study when he realized there was a much more powerful force in the cosmos. i.e. the fingers and greater will. Calling the moon nothing more than just the closest celestial body.
Remember what happened to Primeval Sorcerer Azur? Meddling with cosmic forces for too long? Ymir’s >!undergoing the same transformation under those robes!<
to be honest, the moment i heard from the media tour guys that there's no cutscene for touching the cocoon's arm and entering the DLC, i had a feeling that a lot of the stuff *in* the DLC would also get some underwhelming presentation
She's twice the moon her sister is, and she has the follow-through to back that up. You can tell people love her bc they jump for joy whenever she uses her true powers.
i'm gonna be honest, theres no cutscene or dialogue because her character is half baked and lazy... i wish it wasn't the case. The fight is awesome though.
How romila didnt get cutscenes or dialogue is beyond me
how metyr didnt get cutscene or dialogue is beyond me
bayle I understand
but the putrescent knight?
scadutree avatar?
there isnt a single rememberance boss in the base game that doesnt have a cutscene. half of all dlc bosses dont feel important because they lack any nuance they just activate their AI and go killmode
Super easy actually. Boss told underling to design a meaningless side boss while team focused on more important stuff. Checks in later to find employee went super hard and came up with gold, but time constraints prevented doing boss justice.
I wish more bosses had voice lines during the fight like Morgott or even Rykard did. >!I was very disappointed when I died to Scadutree Avatar and it didn't say "Scadoosh" or something similar.!<
I guess u gotta accept the full exposition in the item description. Some of the most straightforward information. Cant blame from for the character names tho, they are from George and thematic.
I never really got to experience this fight as it should be. My first time going in I summoned my mimic and the NPC summon. The plan was for the summons to pull some aggro for a bit so I can see her move set. Fully expecting to get wrecked. My mimic and I were rolling with the Ruins Greatsword and we all pretty much stunned locked her in place until she dropped. I was expecting a second phase, but nope.
DLC clearly was rushed and not given enough development time, between the dearth of custscenes for bosses and how sparsely populated with meaningful loot the world is. I also personally expect a rewrite happened partway through but can't prove it.
She’s also a really interesting character to try fit into the timeline of Golden Order - Carian relationships.
Rellana was around to join in Messmer’s crusade, meaning Caria was on friendly enough terms to provide some level of support in the early days of Marika’s conquests, which had to have happened before taking Godfrey as consort and Elden Lord.
This means the war with Caria, and subsequent marriage between Radagon and Rennala, was preceded by the two powers being allied. So what sparked that war if the two were previously co-operative?
I have two theories:
A) Marika once again trying to discard or destroy an ally once they’ve stopped being useful to her. However to her surprise Rennala and her knights actually hold the Golden Order off more than anticipated. This leads to Radagon’s marriage to, and subsequent fleeting from Rennala to be shown as a potentially deliberate ploy to destroy Caria from within. After their separation, Rennala is shown to be ruined, and subsequently the Academy and their cuckoo knights turn on the Carian line.
B) Caria instigated the conflict as a response to Marika sealing away the lands of shadow (and the Queen’s sister) away from the world. The marriage could still have been a ploy here, but I don’t feel this is as likely the cause of the war, as we know Golden Order troops were invading Liurnia, which isn’t something we’d expect to see a defending force doing.
You got the timeline wrong as Messmer was around to be Radahn's surrogate big brother according to the Commander Gaius Remeberence. It's not a desperate conquest for material gain, it's a horrible genocide crusade from Marika at the height of her power (just see how turbo buffed Messmer's army is) to wipe away the culture that wronged her people.
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I think she was like a last minute boss tbh,no cutscene,no mention of her in base game,etc. also a little nitpick but “rellana”? Seriously? They couldn’t have come up with something a bit more creative. I like the boss don’t get me wrong,it’s just her lore seems rushed.
To me, one of the few negatives of the DLC is the lack cut scenes with some of the bosses, like Rellana. It didn't have to be a ton of exposition or anything, but a brief acknowledgement of the context surrounding the conflict at hand.
For some reason she is legit very attractive despite sporting a 100 kg of armour… maybe it’s the way she walks… her style… the tasteful thickness of it… oh my god she even has a drape on.
I don't see why she should. It's a really tacked-on character that doesn't really fit the setting. Even the name sounds like a joke to make fun of unoriginal bosses.
I legit thought I skipped/bugged the cutscene on accident because I summoned the NPC for lore. Went on YouTube braving spoilers just to see she doesn't have a cutscene at all.
I wasn't even wanting/expecting a voiced cutscene.. just a cool intro like the Dancer of Boreal Valley or something.
To be fair, she isn't important to the plot, like at all. Yeah, sure, she is connected to Messmer, but guess what? Messmer himself is irrelevant to the plot of the DLC
Rellana and the saint of bud should have had cutscenes, those few lines of dialog and characterization is genuinely crucial to set their tone and vibe. Especially with rellana, she REALLY should have had some dialog, them not having any makes them feel like a random field boss instead of a major part of the journey.
Seeing the love carians get in the DLC makes me want to revisit my carian knight build. I finished up everything in my new main I needed minus the final frenzy flame incantation but I'm far enough I can start a new character and not feel guilty.
My 1 of 2 complaints regarding the dlc. My second complaint is no credits after >!twin princes two holy boogaloo!< but my second complaint is that the base game had 15 remembrances and those 15 remembrances have 18 cutscenes between them, at either the start of their fight as an introduction, midway through as a phase transition, or a post fight cutscenes. The dlc has 10 remembrances bosses which is awesome, but they only have 8 cutscenes between all of those remembrances, and 5 of those cutscenes are shared between 2 of the bosses. Another few cutscenes just to introduce some more bosses, and give just a tiny lil bit dialogue for 2 more remberances with a hello line, a i killed you line, and i you killed me line and i would boose my 9/10 to a 10/10
Actually after going more through the dlc I kind of like the setup of her boss fight
Rushing through the castle and fighting off everything,the Carian Knight being the one "guarding" her like 'You probably should turn back-like now.'
I've seen a phantom and host get one shot back to back as I took a sip of my blue flask
>! Gianthunt can knock him into the ravine,you still get the loot for all those no Scadu users!<
You get into her boss fight (like me) and she just rushes you. No words just hands- 50 in vgr and a few Scadu and I thought I was the bell of the ball but nope wrecked-then I went further and couldn't summon the NPC.
It felt so great coming back and just demolishing her solo with knights lightning though
I feel like they were kind of rushed to get it out on time. There are a lot of things like this in the game. The hornsent quest really confused me how he just attacks you and we never get any reason why. Not even any dialogue during the fight
This is one part of the DLC that felt incredibly unfinished. Not only is her fight rather lacking in fanfare, the entire area of Castle Ensis feels super small for what should be one of the most important figures in Messmer's entourage.
What does she look like, is she pretty
I wanna know. I love tall waifus and she already mooned me multiple times so I think we're already pretty deep relationship wise
Yeah I’m surprised how little boss cutscenes there were, I mean every shard bearer had one and some of them weren’t even mandatory, while the main bosses of the dlc don’t get any.
They made both Renalla sisters optional bosses. FromSoft did them absolutely filthy.
I'm at Radahn and I still haven't even found Renalla yet because I refuse to look at guides.
Crazy how you >! Have to fight a dumb hippo but can entirely skip Renalla !<
I think having the Base game NPC’s react even just a little bit to the DLC (or having DLC characters react to the base game) was high on my list of wishes for it. Probably right below a new ending. But I told people those wishes so they didn’t come true…
ponif sulervan
Pony C'est-la-vie
Virgin radagon vs chad messmer Radagon: marries a carian queen and leave her for what was litteraly himself because "muh greater Will said so" Messmer: carian princess defect to follow him and becomes his Blade
Plus, she remained by his side even when his mother told him to fuck off and locked him in the shithole of deadland he created by her order, because he got a snake god stuck inside of him. You need to be a fool to fumble a Carian princess, seriously. Those girls are capital L loyal.
Messmer doesn't seem to care about Rellana at all, she's just useful to him.
Anything specific to demonstrate this? I'm curious
Her rememberance says she couldn't give him succor. She's just hanging around helping out hoping to be noticed but he's too rapt with agony and duty to care.
That's because he was basically melania but without a miquella to charm him from the immense pain of having an eldritch being within you nothing gave Him piece aside from the memories of when he was a baby held by his mother before he had the base serpent sealed behind his eye.
I wonder if there’s a connection to the serpent Rykard fed himself to and the Serpent within Messmer. Also the snake with wings symbolism is all over volcano manor, Messmer is the first god I’m seeing with that. Not sure any other spots But the snake/fire/judgement-execution theme is heavy for both.
Since his second phase is called “Base Serpant” I think he’s the origin of the god devouring serpent. Kind of like how Loki gave birth to Jormangandr I think Messmer gave birth to the God devouring serpent. That’s why the Volcano manor has the winged abyssal serpent statues, they respect the mother snake. Only other evidence I have for this is Ymir. Even though Ymir is a man he can give birth and be a “mother” to fingers. If Ymir can birth these monstrosity’s then so to can Messmer.
He does have a sibling who is very probably Melina.
she couldn’t give him the whovewhatnow
Succor refers to helping people out of a bad situation, providing assistance to get them out of it. Girl has been trying her best to free Messmer over the years but doesn’t know how to get them out of their situation. So all she can really do is provide her support for him. Messmer and Rellana are pretty tragic.
She wanted to take his mind off his troubles but he's too duty bound and entrapped by his situation for her efforts to mean anything.
The hawk tuah
It's because in place of a penis he has a snake...
I think 'here and only here' line in her swords description implies that her attraction to him was one-sided
The hilarious thing is that the Greater Will didn't say so. The Greater Will fucked off ages ago. Although since the Greater Will is really just GRRM, I guess the Geedubs really did just say so. Food for though.
true The Greater Will wasn't there for most of the time It exists in the beyond, even it's daughter metyr lost the connection to it, and can't recieve messages from it anymore so I think, that the greater will only wanted life to exist, creating the elden beast(which became the elden ring), and many problems with it, then fucked off literally It has no wish to rule, It probably could force it's control on everyone in the lands between but it doesn't give a shit, it's a higher being after all
Specially how thematically heavy this character is. Even her dual powers symbolize her connection to Messmer and Rennala. 🔥🌙
I thought it was more if a connection to Caria’s past as shown with the Sword of Night and Flame. Rennala’s main branch owns the singular sword, but Rellana owns a separate, divergent version of the sword. Both weapons are symbols of their Carian royal family.
Renalla's lore specifically calls out that she defected from the Carians to serve Messmer. Plus, the fire on her blade is that distinctive Messmer-y orange-red.
Rellana*
The namibg conventions in this game get confusing lol
Sadly a friend spoiled me on this boss, when they mentioned "Rellana" I thought it was gonna be another Godefroy situation lol
Just Renalla 2 but the hat points the other way lmfao
this one is a also a lot more stabby
I mean in this case it's more forgivable on account of them being sisters so...
That is true so maybe their parents just werent very creative?
Didn’t their parents create like…Elden ring? Miyazaki levels of creativity
Yeah it's Gwyn, Geynevere (praise the suns) and Gwyndolin all over again
This is a very George RR Martin problem. Think about the names of all the Targaryen’s
Malenia, Melina, Maliketh, Miquella, Marika, Margit, Margott, Mohg…
Millicent, Morgot, Messmer...
They’re all related so it checks out
Malenia milena Marika miquella messmer (last two here aren't very close) Godefroy godwyn Godfrey Margit Margott mohg (Margott isn't very good at changing his name tbf) Renalla rellana ranni
It's said to be the only time the moon and fire were ever together or something like that
I lowkey hate that that’s what her lore is because it implies that people know messmer outside of the land of shadow especially when the cool part is that he was written out of history.
I suppose it's possible that she didn't know of him until travelling to the shadowlands and finding out. I can't recall if it's mentioned why the Carians are there in the first place.
To serve the child of the woman who stole your twin’s man. Trifling!
No, the SoNaF is giantsflame. Her sword is messmer’s fire. So ive been beating her ass with SoNaF to teach her a lesson about using fire for destruction.
It's not a different Sword of Night and Flame. She has one Carian sword, and one sword blessed with Messmer's flame.
Now dual wield them with twin swords on your off hand so you can use both AoW
The first time I saw her do the moon move I loudly exclaimed “Balls!” Because I was tired
Oh yeah I never would’ve guessed that RELLANA was related to RENNALA if not for that subtle clue…
Would of been cool for her to have dialogue and a cutscene that changed depending on if you killed renalla before you got to her in the dlc
Yeah, ER is obviously a fantastic game and a true achivement (especially the DLC) but along with the way more fleshed out cut quests I think not having characters really respond to if you killed certain bosses really... lame. It happens with lesser NPCs yet in regards to bosses they just don't seem to really care and IMO it kind of takes me out of the immersion of being an actual "person" in the world interacting with characters rather then just a player playing against bosses in a level.
Would’ve been funny if you can complete the Ranni quest and bypass the boss by calling her aunt
Not even funny honestly the kind of interaction I EXPECTED Gameplay 10/10 World building …I’m not done yet so I’ll just say, could’ve been so much better and usually IS
Have to agree on cut quests. Everyone and their mother has said it, but there was no reason to cut Kale's quest. It's existence makes the Frenzied Flame ending like 10× better...
You don’t kill Rennala
You get what I mean
But you don’t kill her tho wtf /s
You defeat her though. What I said still stands
Not really though. You defeat her answering machine that Ranni created.
Unlike Rennala. Who doesn't stand. She just kinda sits there. Or floats. Or lays on the ground. Never stands. No wonder Radagon left her, lazy as she is.
Ironic you say that considering she ends up like that because Radagon left in the first place
We barely even defeat her, most of the fight is an astral projection done by Ranni, it’s barely relevant
It's also weird how Ranni doesn't bring it up
That's always made me wonder if it was more of like a triggered casting of the illusionary spell/battle rather than Ranni actually coming out to play or being conscious about it. I'd also assume though that Ranni would feel her spell trigger? But it's unsure as to how magic works like that. We do maybe get a glimpse of that with the DLC through a certain thing breaking, don't wanna spoil if you haven't gotten there.
> That's always made me wonder if it was more of like a triggered casting of the illusionary spell/battle rather than Ranni actually coming out to play or being conscious about it. It is. That's why Ranni refers to you as a "foul trespasser" in the phase transition, even if you've already met her or even done her whole questline beforehand--it's a literally pre-recorded "stop beating up my mom, asshole" message that accompanies her illusion.
She should absolutely know if her spell triggered imo. It's one of the most powerful spells we've seen and she's pretty much next door. Not to mention if she wanted to protect her mother, wouldn't she keep tabs on the spell and her specifically? She wouldn't just sit around and not have a way to check on her.
I wish people would stop excusing this with "that's just Souls games." You can absolutely have both esoteric lore that leaves plenty of room for interpretation for years to come for those who want to deep dive AND a strong narrative that lets the player experience a complete story if they only want to play through it once.
I don’t think this is the worst example. I played it once and learned her backstory about >!leaving the Carina royal family for Messmer!< . What about Flan the Flame God?
These games don’t even really make it feel like you’re playing through a coherent story, even when there is one like in Sekiro. It’s hard to tell if the boss encounter or game sequence is a memory, a metaphor, a dream, reality. When you kill a boss, sometimes you’ll see it again. Sometimes they’ll talk to you or you’ll fight another version of it. You can’t insert conversation that changes the outcomes of anything. These games feel like they’re designed without a story, and then the story is inserted after the fact with environmental details, designs and item descriptions. If you erased all the parts of Elden Ring that tell you about the lore, you could just replace it all without changing anything about the game and it would probably still work.
When Miyazaki said it ‘wasn’t everything he wanted it to be’ I feel like this is the kind(s) of thing (s) he was talking about. I think the next iteration of the ‘medieval souls’ will be better about this, and I’d be 100% okay if it wasn’t set in the mythos of the lands between that GRRM created. Much like his writing, the framework that determined how these narratives were written and interact is convoluted, bloated, and leaves too many loose ends. I know Miyazaki had much creative freedom with the characters themselves, but it still had to be done within the framework of the mythos created by GRRM. Basically, I don’t want an Elden Ring 2. I want Miyazaki to take everything he learned from this, and do the damn thang.
This is one thing I really hope Fromsoft can change. Just give us a little more dialogue and cutscenes to make the story more consumable for the average Joe.
smash, next (i smashed her with a giant hammer)
she did me
Its baffling how cheap they were with cutscenes all over the shop. The game made so much money. Every remembrance should have had one
We got a 1 minute cutscene for draining the water in Shadow Keep, that must have capped the budget. /s
OMG that thing went on forever!! While Rellana is in some empty room alone..
Definitely this. Rellana, saint of bud, etc., should have their own cutscenes.
I'm honestly kinda pissed we don't get anything with St of Buds. I actually killed her before Messmer so idk if the NPCS alluded to her relevance or anything? Like she's a boss we have to kill, apparently seems really relevant, but we don't get really anything on her at all. I've been reading item descriptions like crazy too and can't piece together much about her. At least with Rellana we get more items and can kinda piece shit together a little bit.
I actually found her before finding Mesmer, so I was ultra-confused. For a hot second I thought she was just a kind of optional boss until discovering I did actually have to deal with her annoying ass.
She’s just a Hornsent priestess that discovered rot during Messmer’s crusade that burned down her church, you can even see her in the story trailer, that figure on its knees with her pole blade as everything around her is on fire
Yeah there are parts of this DLC that were quite the disappointment to me honestly. I'm not done yet but I think I am fairly close but just like you said every remembrance should have had a cutscene and they shouldnt treat the realm of shadow as some beginning place. Exploring an area just to get some worthless smithing stones feels so annoying, we have to kill Mohg and Radahn to get into this place WE ARE ALL STACKED UP ON THOSE THINGS OR CAN BUY THEM AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF TIMES.
everything was hastily made in this dlc, you can tell. this more than anything they have made has that "i dont want to make this" feel
Of course it was,they created an entire world that’s half the size of the main game. If they delayed any longer the entire player base would have lost their collective minds that dlc hadn’t been released yet. So instead we got a pretty awesome new world, some really cool weapon concepts and bosses, and closure on one of the biggest speculations in the series. They certainly could have done more, but we’d be waiting another year or two to even play it.
well said
Based on
Money isn’t the deciding factor, it’s time
I was very disappointed and confused to find out that there was no opening cutscene for the dlc. You just sort of teleport there leaving you confused as to what exactly the land of shadow is.
i think that was fine. having the player control their character and step out into the world for the first time is more impactful than a cutscene.
They ran out of time, it seems
This wad my biggest complaint of the dlc, lack of cuteness :(
Just like pontiff. Two awesome bosses who unfortunately didn’t get a cutscene.
Yeah I didn’t even pontiff was important at all I thought he was just a random guard until watching lore videos
Pontiff is like, arguably the big bad of DS3. Almost everything currently going wrong with the world, aside from the fading of the flame, is either directly or indirectly caused by him in some way. Its hilarious how easy it is to just have absolutely no idea that he's NOT just some priestly goober with glowy swords and an awesome fight, when he is in fact kind of one of the biggest reasons the world is currently in such dissaray.
I wish this dlc didn’t have some flaws but it unfortunately does. Example being some of the remembrance bosses not having any cutscenes just like you said.
Also when you defeat the final boss. No cutscenes or anything. Every npc is dead. No one reacts to what you do. You go back to the roundtable and become Elden Lord.
This really did annoy me, why is the only dialogue in the entire fight during the grab attack? Not even a quote when they kill you. Absolutely nothing at all
Yeah all the other souls games at least had something for beating the final boss of the DLC (DS - Sif recognizing you, DS2 - Vendricks blessing, DS3 - the last dialogue with the painter)
For real. I imagined my tarnished shrugging his shoulders and saying "well, that just happened" after I beat the last boss :p
The Empyrean Grandam thanks you, and you get that memory of Miquella begging in the dark but yeah it's surprising how much is just slapped together without consequence or narrative.
Is the Grandam in Belurat meant to be an Empyrean? I thought it was just a hornsent named after a more historical/mythical Hornsent Empyrean named Grandam. idk, just doesn't make sense to me that a Hornsent Empyrean would be allowed to live or go undetected. Unless I'm misinterpreting something.
Grandam is just an old word for grandma, and the only Empyrean I think they'd know about in any recency is either Miquella or Marika. It'd make some sense how she escaped persecution in Bonny and was taught in the Shaman village to ascend Belurat to the Divine Gate. Either that or she's the grandma of a dead Empyrean so she's regarded as a neutralized threat that's also somehow necessary as a living relic, which doesn't really seem in line with how Marika got down outside the Fire Giants...
I genuily dont understand giving dance lion a cutscene but not this big lore relecant character lmao
I sincerely have NO idea what the whole point of the dancing lion or most of Belurat was
people worshiping the crucible and specificly the lion empyran that probs belonged to the old lady or someone else atltough it is kinda pointless in a grand scheme comapred to the rest of the dlc. I do have my own headcanon that tho. that the place existed just to get burned as a revenge for what happend to Marikas village but idk
Holy shit that actually makes a lot of sense. They worshipped an Omen— with horns The Hornsent despise Marika and the Greater Will Omens were part of the Crucible, so they were loved until they were hated. Marika blaming them for the death of her village could be the catalyzing moment
lol yeah man you just succinctly summarized the main plot of the DLC. >!Hornsent had power, they weren’t that great either, Marika got power and devastated the land of shadow in revenge. !<
I just got to the village before I had to start work for the day so Im slowly catching on 😂 Trying to avoid most lore videos/walkthrus or anything until I finish everything that I find
I love when the story clicks. You’ve got iron patience.
The entire expansion got no cutscene.
It does but definitely not enough imo
For real, I thought she just happened to have a similar name to Renalla till I read the descriptions of her items and was like "WHAT??"
me: "Ansbach! Leda is tryign to KILL YOU" Ansbach: "whatever they are trying to with Mohgs body is beyond me"
She's just living in Dark Souls 3, land of the silent bosses
Apparently Ymir taught Rellana and maybe even Renalla in the ways of moon sorceries, but abandoned its study when he realized there was a much more powerful force in the cosmos. i.e. the fingers and greater will. Calling the moon nothing more than just the closest celestial body.
Remember what happened to Primeval Sorcerer Azur? Meddling with cosmic forces for too long? Ymir’s >!undergoing the same transformation under those robes!<
Malenia has to show up and tell you she’s the best. Rellana just shows up, kills you, doesn’t elaborate, and leaves.
to be honest, the moment i heard from the media tour guys that there's no cutscene for touching the cocoon's arm and entering the DLC, i had a feeling that a lot of the stuff *in* the DLC would also get some underwhelming presentation
Average redditor: Woman detected, cock erected
She's twice the moon her sister is, and she has the follow-through to back that up. You can tell people love her bc they jump for joy whenever she uses her true powers.
i'm gonna be honest, theres no cutscene or dialogue because her character is half baked and lazy... i wish it wasn't the case. The fight is awesome though.
How romila didnt get cutscenes or dialogue is beyond me how metyr didnt get cutscene or dialogue is beyond me bayle I understand but the putrescent knight? scadutree avatar? there isnt a single rememberance boss in the base game that doesnt have a cutscene. half of all dlc bosses dont feel important because they lack any nuance they just activate their AI and go killmode
Astel, Fortissax and Regal Ancestor Spirit didn't have cutscenes so not every base game remembrance boss had them.
Indeed, she deserved a cutscene.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Yeah after reading her items I was disappointed there wasn't more offered for her....
Pontiff didnt have dialogue either
Super easy actually. Boss told underling to design a meaningless side boss while team focused on more important stuff. Checks in later to find employee went super hard and came up with gold, but time constraints prevented doing boss justice.
Words are a waste of time. The swords do the talking.
I wish more bosses had voice lines during the fight like Morgott or even Rykard did. >!I was very disappointed when I died to Scadutree Avatar and it didn't say "Scadoosh" or something similar.!<
I guess u gotta accept the full exposition in the item description. Some of the most straightforward information. Cant blame from for the character names tho, they are from George and thematic.
Totally and I actually thought the current narrative was cool
It goes crazy. Especially now that we know an entire age was created from a lie and a big floppy finger.
Yet another reason this dlc is bad as shit
I never really got to experience this fight as it should be. My first time going in I summoned my mimic and the NPC summon. The plan was for the summons to pull some aggro for a bit so I can see her move set. Fully expecting to get wrecked. My mimic and I were rolling with the Ruins Greatsword and we all pretty much stunned locked her in place until she dropped. I was expecting a second phase, but nope.
Agreed.
Messmer had good taste.
she remind me of sydney sweeney
The sister have a thing for red haired man
Women don’t deserve to speak
DLC clearly was rushed and not given enough development time, between the dearth of custscenes for bosses and how sparsely populated with meaningful loot the world is. I also personally expect a rewrite happened partway through but can't prove it.
She’s also a really interesting character to try fit into the timeline of Golden Order - Carian relationships. Rellana was around to join in Messmer’s crusade, meaning Caria was on friendly enough terms to provide some level of support in the early days of Marika’s conquests, which had to have happened before taking Godfrey as consort and Elden Lord. This means the war with Caria, and subsequent marriage between Radagon and Rennala, was preceded by the two powers being allied. So what sparked that war if the two were previously co-operative? I have two theories: A) Marika once again trying to discard or destroy an ally once they’ve stopped being useful to her. However to her surprise Rennala and her knights actually hold the Golden Order off more than anticipated. This leads to Radagon’s marriage to, and subsequent fleeting from Rennala to be shown as a potentially deliberate ploy to destroy Caria from within. After their separation, Rennala is shown to be ruined, and subsequently the Academy and their cuckoo knights turn on the Carian line. B) Caria instigated the conflict as a response to Marika sealing away the lands of shadow (and the Queen’s sister) away from the world. The marriage could still have been a ploy here, but I don’t feel this is as likely the cause of the war, as we know Golden Order troops were invading Liurnia, which isn’t something we’d expect to see a defending force doing.
You got the timeline wrong as Messmer was around to be Radahn's surrogate big brother according to the Commander Gaius Remeberence. It's not a desperate conquest for material gain, it's a horrible genocide crusade from Marika at the height of her power (just see how turbo buffed Messmer's army is) to wipe away the culture that wronged her people.
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Never seen her in my life
Honestly after how hype she looked in the trailer and how cinematic she looked I was expecting a 50% hp cutscene But no it was kinda dissapointint
I think she was like a last minute boss tbh,no cutscene,no mention of her in base game,etc. also a little nitpick but “rellana”? Seriously? They couldn’t have come up with something a bit more creative. I like the boss don’t get me wrong,it’s just her lore seems rushed.
Is that how she actually looks like? I too suspect her of being hot asf.
So is she related to Rennala? Cuz the names are so similar. Or is that just Eldenring things?
Shows up, third sister, does not elaborate, dies wait, I'm dumb, she's Rennala's sister, not daughter nvm
Pontiffany deserve a dialogue on defeat atleast
To me, one of the few negatives of the DLC is the lack cut scenes with some of the bosses, like Rellana. It didn't have to be a ton of exposition or anything, but a brief acknowledgement of the context surrounding the conflict at hand.
I’ve seen a video of her having dialogue after beating her one on one. Did no one get that?
i mean she is a optional boss
Real
For some reason she is legit very attractive despite sporting a 100 kg of armour… maybe it’s the way she walks… her style… the tasteful thickness of it… oh my god she even has a drape on.
I don't see why she should. It's a really tacked-on character that doesn't really fit the setting. Even the name sounds like a joke to make fun of unoriginal bosses.
Same with >!Romina!<
Don't worry man just read item description! It's how Miyazaki wanted you to learn he story!!!
It's almost like they designed the fights first and worked backward to try to make the lore fit.
I legit thought I skipped/bugged the cutscene on accident because I summoned the NPC for lore. Went on YouTube braving spoilers just to see she doesn't have a cutscene at all. I wasn't even wanting/expecting a voiced cutscene.. just a cool intro like the Dancer of Boreal Valley or something.
people when Miyazaki does a Miyazaki thing PONTIFF SULYVAHN didn't have a cutscene why should she?
Actions speak louder than words. The ass-whooping speaks greater pain than the dead-roast.
To be fair, she isn't important to the plot, like at all. Yeah, sure, she is connected to Messmer, but guess what? Messmer himself is irrelevant to the plot of the DLC
Rellana and the saint of bud should have had cutscenes, those few lines of dialog and characterization is genuinely crucial to set their tone and vibe. Especially with rellana, she REALLY should have had some dialog, them not having any makes them feel like a random field boss instead of a major part of the journey.
Seeing the love carians get in the DLC makes me want to revisit my carian knight build. I finished up everything in my new main I needed minus the final frenzy flame incantation but I'm far enough I can start a new character and not feel guilty.
Radahn hasn’t a single pice of dialogue as well, and he is around since the announcement trailer.
It’s because I murdered her no hit in closed alpha. I’m frankly surprised she made it to the game after that.
My 1 of 2 complaints regarding the dlc. My second complaint is no credits after >!twin princes two holy boogaloo!< but my second complaint is that the base game had 15 remembrances and those 15 remembrances have 18 cutscenes between them, at either the start of their fight as an introduction, midway through as a phase transition, or a post fight cutscenes. The dlc has 10 remembrances bosses which is awesome, but they only have 8 cutscenes between all of those remembrances, and 5 of those cutscenes are shared between 2 of the bosses. Another few cutscenes just to introduce some more bosses, and give just a tiny lil bit dialogue for 2 more remberances with a hello line, a i killed you line, and i you killed me line and i would boose my 9/10 to a 10/10
She's Pontiff 2 so it makes sense.
Cause her feet aren't out
sweet merciful christmas!
God I can’t wait for her to hold me down and pound me again tonight
Literally Who?
Did not let go of her Armor since I put it on, it IS really cool
Actually after going more through the dlc I kind of like the setup of her boss fight Rushing through the castle and fighting off everything,the Carian Knight being the one "guarding" her like 'You probably should turn back-like now.' I've seen a phantom and host get one shot back to back as I took a sip of my blue flask >! Gianthunt can knock him into the ravine,you still get the loot for all those no Scadu users!< You get into her boss fight (like me) and she just rushes you. No words just hands- 50 in vgr and a few Scadu and I thought I was the bell of the ball but nope wrecked-then I went further and couldn't summon the NPC. It felt so great coming back and just demolishing her solo with knights lightning though
I feel like they were kind of rushed to get it out on time. There are a lot of things like this in the game. The hornsent quest really confused me how he just attacks you and we never get any reason why. Not even any dialogue during the fight
She's to busy swingin
But then again, who did? The final boss barely got any
Absolutely shouldve had a cutscene imo, and a bayle cutscene wouldve been so sick too.
The dlc honestly left quite a bit to be desired, same with st trina
Currently trying to figure out how to beat this one…
This is one part of the DLC that felt incredibly unfinished. Not only is her fight rather lacking in fanfare, the entire area of Castle Ensis feels super small for what should be one of the most important figures in Messmer's entourage.
What does she look like, is she pretty I wanna know. I love tall waifus and she already mooned me multiple times so I think we're already pretty deep relationship wise
YouTube ranni the witch. Recently did a video with all the faces of the dlc npc’s.
She really was just about beating dat a$$
The best we got is when she enters her last phase and it starts raining. So cool.
Yeah I’m surprised how little boss cutscenes there were, I mean every shard bearer had one and some of them weren’t even mandatory, while the main bosses of the dlc don’t get any.
She mooned us. That was all the cut scene I needed.
10/10 fight that moon attack is bullshit though. I love it.
Gives me conniptions
She wanted the smoke, pure and simple. It’s on-sight with her and I respect it tbh
They made both Renalla sisters optional bosses. FromSoft did them absolutely filthy. I'm at Radahn and I still haven't even found Renalla yet because I refuse to look at guides. Crazy how you >! Have to fight a dumb hippo but can entirely skip Renalla !<
Why didn't Midier or the Demon prince have cutscenes
Same with Romina, we know so little about that section of the rot church
I can kinda forgive rellana having no cutscene but Romina definitely should've had one
also hate how most of the bosses r just sitting there when you go through the fog gate
I think having the Base game NPC’s react even just a little bit to the DLC (or having DLC characters react to the base game) was high on my list of wishes for it. Probably right below a new ending. But I told people those wishes so they didn’t come true…
I kinda like that she’s all smoke. You pose a threat to her Mesmer? Aight you can die.
For real. She could’ve been as badass as Lady Maria if they went a little harder on presentation, perhaps with a cutscene or something
One of the very few big misses in this DLC 😭
She definitely deserved a proper introduction, felt really out of place for her not to have one.