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ClassBShareHolder

We bought a new VW ID.4. I have no illusions about it paying for itself with the savings, BUT, we’ve driven 16,000kms and it’s cost us $58. We have solar so we generate our own electricity. We’ve built up a credit over the last few years so charging at home is still free. Our daughter says that now that we don’t pay for gas, we never stay home.


vkapadia

I have a Tesla and an EV6. I have zero delusions about it saving money overall. But boy oh boy is it amazing to have not set foot in a gas station for almost a year and a half now.


Sad-Worldliness6026

exactly. I don't own a tesla but my dad does and it certainly does not save money. The insurance/registration is more expensive and the tires are more expensive and do not last as long. If you compare a model 3 which is an "entry level" Tesla EV to an entry level Chevy or Ford, you will not save money. I do however think the convenience of the EV is too great to ignore. What we will have to see in the future is longevity. If an ICE vehicle typically lasts 200K miles and an EV can go 400 then there is definitely real savings there.


vkapadia

Yup, I bought them for the convenience and how awesome they are, not the savings


Sad-Worldliness6026

Yep. If the longevity is there then you might see some real savings. The convenience is huge. Charging is not a problem minus when you take road trips and the destination does not have charging. Then you "waste" time at superchargers but otherwise it is not an issue.


powderpc

Savings are relative. Most people do not rationalize owning a vehicle for 200k+ miles. The math is extremely simple and it is encapsulated in TCO (total cost of ownership). While TCO might not be superior for lower cost vehicles (ie it depends) it can be quite substantially lower for extremely inefficient vehicles such as high performance cars, trucks, etc where with all things being relatively equal (insurance, etc), the lower fueling and maintenance cost makes a substantial difference in TCO.


Sad-Worldliness6026

I guess that's true if you are not driving it into the ground. I think tesla should be cool for a while because of the convenience. After 200K miles which is 20 years for many people, there will probably be big advancements in EVs at that point


logictech86

And even if a 20 year old EV has 15% + battery degradation it will be easier to keep running than a 20 year old ICE car and make a perfect secondary car for the family. It is my goal to have my Ioniq 5 long enough for my toddler son to drive it when he starts to learn.


Sad-Worldliness6026

I'd be interested to see how long an EV lasts. The batteries will not degrade much over 100s of thousands of miles, but what about 20 years?


logictech86

I plan to find out! Even if it is 50% loss that is still plenty of range for a city daily driver.


Sad-Worldliness6026

not really a fair comparison but the only electronics I have from 20 years old (i.e. ipods) the battery is completely shot


Confident-Door3461

By the time the battery capacity degrades to that level we'll probably see cheaper and higher energy density batteries that you could replace your old one's with as well as better battery management systems which will see higher mileage and lower charging time, there's already Chinese EVs that can 300 miles in 12 minutes.


EnergeticFinance

We need EV prices to generally drop by another 30%, then we'll be in a situation where it rarely makes any financial sense to get an ICE 


Mikcole44

Cars will never "pay for themselves" but EV's can be a heck of a lot cheaper to run than ICE. I drive a fair bit, 45k km a year, and my $50k EV car payments + monthly elect are the same or less than it would be for a 30-35 ICE with monthly gas. Plus, it's a lot nicer car than a 30-35k ICE.


death_hawk

> Cars will never "pay for themselves" \*laughs in gas prices\* I had a perfectly functional but very inefficient paid off gas vehicle. Took about 20L/100km. Cost me nearly $200 Canuck bucks to fill. IDK how you want to compare a full sized SUV to something like a Model Y, but assuming you could live with a LR vs a Tahoe I literally paid for it using nothing but gasoline. $70k out the door, 1% finance rate, $0 down. 96 month term. Works out to $759.03. My fuel bill went from $800/month to about $40/month. $759.03 + $40 = $799.03. Pretty damn close. This isn't the norm for everyone since most people don't drive SUVs that consume 20L/100km and can replace them with a smaller car like a Model Y. Nor are their gas prices $2CAD/L or $5.50USD/gallon. But if you live in an area with insanely high gas and your car is really inefficient? It can for sure pay for itself.


series-hybrid

I rememeber when gasoline prices spiked to over $4/gallon when there was some problem with other countries. Its a gamble, but with an EV, I like the odds.


The-Fox-Says

I live in one of the most expensive states for electricity and it would still be 1/3 of the cost vs gasoline


Clover-kun

Yeah Americans often forget that the vast majority of the world doesn't have artificially cheap gas like them. I went from paying roughly $1000 canuck bux a month on gas for my truck to $100 a month in electricity for my i5. If I did the sane thing and got a Model 3, Polestar 2, or i4, those cars really would have been paying for themselves, but I wanted to treat myself.


EnergeticFinance

Both of these examples are "I went from a large inefficient vehicle to a smaller efficient one, and realized cost savings".  Compare like-for-like. Willing to replace your truck with a sedan? Run the comparison between a model 3 and a Camry.    Willing to replace a Tahoe with a small SUV? Compare the model Y with a CRV.    Saying "I went from a truck to a sedan and my fuel costs dropped a lot; therefore EVs can be good" is just kind of foolish. 


Clover-kun

i5 isn't small or efficient lmao, weighs as much as some half ton trucks. It's ICE equivalent is powered by a twin turbo V8 Of course if you're going from a relatively new, potentially hybrid Camry, to a new Model 3, the savings will be tiny to non-existent. Trading in a newish car for another new car to save money almost never makes sense, regardless of drivetrain. What's more likely to happen is that someone shopping in that price bracket is most likely replacing an older, less efficient Camry from back with mid-size sedans were getting mpg figures in the high 20s, and much lower in city and suburban traffic. I had an ES300 (Camry with a Lexus badge) that could manage 22mpg on a good day, perfect vehicle to replace with an entry level EV But that still doesn't mean you can just write off switching from an oversized vehicle to a smaller more efficient one. The most popular passenger vehicle in Canada is the Ford F150, and we drive just as much as Americans. However unlike Americans we have the privilege of paying the equivalent of 5-6 USD per gallon for regular gas, meanwhile electricity can be as cheap as 2 US cents per kwh, and that's in the most populous provinces that make heavy use of renewables and nuclear (Oilberta is an anomaly)


EnergeticFinance

Point is that whatever EV you switch to, compare it to an actual comparable new ICE, not what you are coming from. F150 --> i5? Compare i5 vs. camry (or i5 vs series 5 if you want), not i5 vs. F150. Tahoe --> Model y? Compare Model Y vs. CRV or similar, not model Y vs. tahoe.


Clover-kun

The equivalent car to mine is the gas powered version with a twin turbo V8, which is to no one's surprise guzzles premium at fast as my truck guzzled regular. Most people don't replace new cars with new cars however, but when someone is looking at a new car there are plenty of new EVs with similarly priced ICE equivalents. Once you factor in federal and provincial incentives (up to $12k in some provinces), it's a no brainer for a lot of people.


ozzyngcsu

96 month financing, I thought Americans were bad.


Metsican

At 1% in an extremely inflationary environment, it's a genius move.


iLukeJoseph

I was thinking the same thing. But at 1% it’s essentially free money. At the same time though, the way EV’s appear to depreciate, not sure if that’s the best move.


ozzyngcsu

Right, being underwater for six years on a vehicle that is so easily totaled isn't ideal.


wannaridebikes

More workers rights? The risk for Americans having even a low interest loan for more than 4-5 years is that we can more easily be laid-off and we have less accessible safety nets for when that happens.


photosbyspeed

That’s not how things pay for themselves.  


MrB2891

How do you figure? Our Bolt costs us $20-30/mo in gas. The Sonic was costing us $250/mo. Insurance went down $20/mo. Removing $180/yr in oil changes alone, let alone the other maintenance that the Sonic required. In less 7 years the Bolt will have fully paid for itself in fuel savings alone. And that is assuming we don't move to solar and eliminate the electric bill entirely (which we have been talking about doing even before the EV).


death_hawk

In the context of my post above, how is it not? I pay $800/month. I either get fuel or car+fuel paid for. Paying for said fuel isn't an removable option, but in one of those cases I get a free car.


The-Fox-Says

16.5mpg for the yanks and roughly $146 USD


illegalt3nder

If something pays for itself then that means you are able to generate income to offset the expense. You are not generating income, therefore it did not pay for itself. You has less money than you did at the beginning. If it had paid for itself the amount of money you had would have been the same.


Which-Adeptness6908

You don't need to generate an income. Reducing an expense has the same effect. During the term of the finance he saves nothing except for a likely saving in maintenance costs. After the finance term he saves $800 pm.


ohyonghao

You can certainly define it that way if you want to be narrow about it, but had they not done the switch they would have still been out that money. In the end instead of all the money being spent on fuel they have put it into a depreciating asset, but an asset nonetheless. So it essentially paid for itself. Out of pocket nothing beyond what they would have paid anyways.


death_hawk

> You has less money than you did at the beginning. But I don't. I pay $800 for gas. I pay $800 for a car+electricity. > If it had paid for itself the amount of money you had would have been the same. But it is.


Tubzero-

Cars do pay for themselves, they allow you to go to work


KinderGameMichi

But I'm retired. What is this "work" thing you speak of? :-)


Tubzero-

Ok, they enable you to go wherever you want. Hobbies, family, vacation etc. it’s worth your sanity


rook_of_approval

Electric cars can definitely pay for themselves if you have a driving job.


LT_Blount

I bought a used TDI for $10k, put 80k miles on it and between the gift cards, checks and the buyback, I was paid a total of around $14k. As soon as the dieselgate scandal was made public I stopped doing any maintenance other than changing the oil, oil filter and fuel filters. I would have waited longer as the buyback offer kept going up every month, but as it was I turned it in with a transmission that was well past the needed filter and fluid change, a timing belt that was 60k overdue, and the dash had plenty of ignored warning light. I had rolled the dice over and over and didn’t feel like I could push my luck without putting money into it.


ham4fun

Drove my Jetta from Pittsburg to Annapolis in cripple mode from a DPF failure to get the buyback.


coldbrew18

I spent 26k on my car and I’ve recovered about 11.5k in 2.5 years. Granted a lot of that was work mileage reimbursement. But the money went to my pocket instead of the mechanic’s.


Zealousideal_Top6489

Your first electric car can pay for itself as cars are a required expense for many Americans. So cutting 300 out of gas a month will eventually pay for the car as long as you didn't go extremely expensive... each subsequent EV that only replaces an EV cant.


jetylee

My off lease CPO BMW i3 that I paid $25k for has already put $21k back into a dedicated savings account in almost 4 years and 60k miles. When I’m done with this endeavor maybe 3 years from now I get a FREE NEW EV soon.


Sniflix

I wish everyone could experience the solar+EV combo for a month and transition to renewables would skyrocket. The govt could fund solar panel installation and EV leases - and we would come out ahead with all the good paying jobs it would create, better health from no pollution and happier drivers. It's going to happen anyway, why drag it out?


BigSkyMountains

I'm really looking forward to the solar combo. My roof is old, so it needs to be replaced in a few years before I can do solar. In the meantime, I cut off the last of my gas appliances a few weeks back. My gas meter should be disconnected as soon as the utility gets around to it I will soon be contributing $0 directly into the fossil fuel ecosystem. That's about $5k/yr in savings for as long as I live in this house, as well as inflation protection. And I never have to care about whatever gasoline prices are doing or freak out about how Texas made the whole country's natural gas prices spike.


Sniflix

Well, as you wait, the price of panels is plummeting. Many homes have roof issues. The savings from solar should help cover the cost and there should be a way to combine the financing for both.


Remarkable-Host405

Depending on your location, switching from gas to electric can be pretty expensive. It's 600 a year to heat my home with natural gas, 1800 for electric, or around 600 for a heat pump. That's not factoring hot water or stove into it


BigSkyMountains

My location is pretty typical of utility prices, but there are severe outlier in either direction (PG&E and the northeast that I'm aware of). Switching to a heat-pump is roughly break even on operating costs. It could be a little higher or a little lower depending on utility rates. And gas rates have swung enough that gas would have been cheaper than a heat pump in 2022, but more expensive in 2021. It works out to the same ballpark over the long term. A heat pump water heater is saving me about $200 a year. It's one of the higher ROI efficiency projects I've done. Cooking is a small enough energy user that it's a rounding error either way. Combined with solar and good net metering laws, I can still get to a $0 utility bill with electric that I can't get to with gas.


Icy_Produce2203

went solar on home in 2012 and it paid off in 7 years. I will produce 6,500 kWhs per year approx, for the next 30 years. Free electricity is amazing and is the only way to go. Sun power in my car battery.......outta this Universe. 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 with 60,000 miles and 28 months under my belt. I will get 20 or 25 more panels on my roof and electric heating.........one or two powerwalls in the basement is a must and the incentives right now in CT make the batteries a 10 year payback. The new heating systems and the more solar panels on my roof will have a payback of 10 years. Including all costs. Forget about saving the Planet, if you wanna have fun driving again, go EV.......if you wanna stop paying US$250 or 500 a month to the electric co.......solar on roof. easy peasy and avail now and no maint or fuss.


Sniflix

Yeah drive an EV for a week and you'll be a fan. They are hella fun and there's nothing like plugging in at night and waking up with a full battery in the morning. The whole experience is transformative.


Icy_Produce2203

The fricking Tesla model 3, RWD, 272 miles per charge was US$30k out the door net of incentives ($9,750) and after all fees, taxes, plates, etc.........December 2023. Sooooooooooooo cheap. Half the price of a beemer EV. AND I am dying to get my hands and head wrapped around that incredible software. The future is great.


Sniflix

Nothing yet comes close, especially the software and their OTA updates.


ptothesecondpwr

This is on point. While our solar with a house of four, hot tub, deep freezer, and etcetera doesn't quite end up at zero it's close while still charging our car. Unfortunately, it's still not enough to convince our older (fox news watching) parents to understand the benefits and cost savings. Our winter bills are 1/5th of what most my friends are paying with a heat pump in similar houses, not including charging the car!


Sniflix

Change is difficult for most people. They would rather complain about their electric bills and the price is gas than do something about it. Every home should have solar panels. It's a no-brainer. People are already paying their electric bills, they can pay half of that and finance the panels - which there are a worldwide oversupply.


mschuster91

The problem is up-fronting the money. Even if you get some sort of government assistance/grants, a PV setup, heat pump and battery storage can run you 20-30k €... and who has that sort of money lying around these days? It's just as in the infamous "boots theory" - those able to upfront money for 10 years have it easy, they just switch over to renewables, while the average working joe is forced to keep using fossil fuels.


Sniflix

That's where govt steps in - funding the renewal transition for everyone. We need to start thinking big again.


mschuster91

Good luck getting that past the frugality preachers. Won't happen until the boomers are six feet under


Sniflix

I'm a boomer and we all aren't angry evangelical aholes. I remember when govt was able to accomplish big things. We need to start thinking like that again. Also quit voting for republicans.


krichard-21

We looked into solar for our house. But the problems are quite obvious. Small South Minneapolis lots. Surrounded by tall trees. Our roofline is aligned north-south, not east-west. Hence no solar for us.


Sniflix

Yes, it won't work for every home.


Remarkable-Host405

"Every home should have solar panels" No. Tell that to my small roof in Missouri. I really want to, but the numbers aren't there. Electricity is dirt cheap and we don't get enough sun to payoff.


Sniflix

It won't fit every old roof but as the price of panels drop and the efficiency improves, there will be retrofits that work for you.


Sniflix

It won't fit every old roof but as the price of panels drop and the efficiency improves, there will be retrofits that work for you.


CelerMortis

You sound like me, but house of 5. Deep freezers don’t take much electricity at all. Hot tubs on the other hand are awful, I unplugged mine recently and my electric bill dropped by $100. Solar rules though. With an electric car it feels like financial cheating somehow.


series-hybrid

In Germany (which doesnt have great solar exposure), they wanted to reduce the use of coal, and also prevent the need to build a new power plant (of any type). Even generating electricity by burning natural gas from Norway (in the winter), they incentivised Germans buying an EV or a plug-in hybrid. Its working out well for them.


Sniflix

Germany is halting their EV rebates https://www.investors.com/news/electric-vehicle-subsidies-germany-ends-ev-bonus-abruptly-in-latest-blow-to-tesla/#:~:text=Germany's%20EV%20subsidy%20had%20been,of%203%2C000%20euros%20(%243%2C273). Germany's switch to solar has been a huge success. They are producing a surplus. https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/business/surplus-solar-power-in-germany-leads-to-negative-electricity-prices/story Norway has over 90% renewable power mostly hydro. They installed enough solar last year to account for 5% of their power needs. Cold climates are fine for solar and wind. You need to stop posting fossil fuel troll FUD that is easily disproved with a 5 second search.


jetylee

Unfortunately I pay 1.8 cents per kWh off peak in my nuclear state. Solar can’t beat my budget in this case.


Sniflix

You're not paying the real cost of your nuclear energy. Ask San Diego homeowners how that worked out. $4.3 billion decommissioning costs, that seems to keep growing a decade later - completely funded by the customers. That doesn't include the millions of pounds of waste sitting on the beach. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/southern-california-utilities-to-pay-775-in-final-san-onofre https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/24/san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-radioactive-waste-unsafe https://fox5sandiego.com/news/local-news/san-diegans-soon-to-make-voice-heard-on-decommissioning-costs-of-san-onofre-nuclear-plant/


jetylee

Apples and Oranges. 1) I don’t care cuz I only care about “what i pay for” 2) Georgia is such Wealthy state we literally by definition, don’t know what to do with our money. 3) Georgia is fighting (quite successfully) to be the friendliest EV state in the entire nation. So I’m good :)


Sniflix

You might be good but we need to speed up the transition for everyone.


Scratch2k

They already are, rebates on solar installation make them very attractive and tax breaks on a novated lease on an EV make them equally so. There's never been a better time to go solar + EV. Unfortunately it means only people with a house and suitable roof and a job which allows you to novated lease can take advantage, but it's a start.


Sniflix

Yes, the rebates really sparked the EV and solar revolution but we need to speed it up. People already pay for their electric/gas. The govt could have that money redirected to pay for solar installations. Something similar could be done for EVs. We should also give everybody electric bikes. Sounds crazy but that would solve so many problems for very little cost.


Scratch2k

I totally agree.


Cavane42

If you're going to overhaul your entire energy infrastructure to go renewable, wide scale residential solar would not be the way to go about it. That said, I think it would be cool for EVs and bidirectional chargers to be heavily subsidized, with the stipulation that to qualify for the benefit, you have to provide a certain amount of v2grid uptime.


BigSkyMountains

From a public policy standpoint, rapid deployment of utility-scale solar would be optimal. It's much cheaper and the benefits of solar (low cost, lower pollution, and inflation protection) would flow to all utility customers. But most utilities and regulators aren't interested in this. Although this seems to be changing rapidly. In absence of rapid utility-solar buildouts, rooftop solar is the second-best thing we could do. It makes utilities actually think about competition in their little monopolistic worlds. And it brings renewables onto the grids that may be the most polluting out there.


Sniflix

Rooftop solar (plus batteries) benefits all of us and somewhat negates the necessity to rebuild the grid. Utility solar benefits a free giant corporations. Homeowners will be giddy when they see the results, financially. Also, no widespread blackouts. But we will also need to convert all our utilities to renewables. Rooftop will reduce the scale of those projects.


Simon_787

$58 in electricity of course. In reality it sure as hell did cost more than that.


mikew_reddit

I don't know how they ignore the cost of the hardware (solar panels, inverter(s), charge controller, roof or ground mounts, wiring, breakers, transfer switch, batteries, monitoring), installation, permits and potential rewiring (for older houses). It's in the tens of thousands of dollars, nowhere near free.


ClassBShareHolder

That’s all paid for in utility savings. I put it on when I built the house before it was economical. Everybody wondered how long it would take to pay for itself. We’d always say “before your granite countertops or trip to Mexico.” Then the economics changed and electricity spiked. It’s a fair point that nobody talks about the upfront costs. But nobody talks about the upfront costs of a traditional ICE either. We paid good money for a luxury EV. We could have easily spent that on a luxury ICE as well. But those still have the ongoing fuel costs. Last I checked you can’t produce your own gasoline while at work. I know very few people who set themselves up to save as much as we did. This is 12 years of saving and investment to get to this point. I don’t try to convince anybody to go EV because it’s not nearly as economical if you’re not already set up with solar. But yes, it cost more than $58 to charge it. IKEA may have free charging, but it’s not free to them, and they’re counting on the money we spend shopping to offset the cost.


Simon_787

And the car too, like maintenance, depreciation, insurance, taxes, maybe parking etc.


Metsican

Spark EV was a sweet product when sold new that nobody knew about. Tons of power in a tiny car.


SpyCake1

Was it even sold outside of CA? But I remember there was a brief moment when you could lease it (24mo, 10k mi/yr) for free as the fed + ca credits covered the cost of the whole damn lease. A similar situation with the Fiat 500e.


CleverNickName-69

I believe it was California, Oregon, and Maryland (near D.C. so Chevy could show it to lawmakers). Chevy basically took their cheapest gas car and put the electric motor from the Volt in the front and 500 pounds of battery under the back seat. We had a car dying and got our first Spark EV lease for $124/mo for 36 months, nothing down. A month later I got a 2nd one. After people I work with realized what I had and how little it cost, 3 of them went out and leased them too. When the leases were up, 4 of us bought someone else's lease return. It is such a good car if you don't need more range. The only problem I had was that it was just so much fun to drive that I wore out tires really fast. 350 ft-lbs of torque in a 2900 lbs car.


chapinscott32

Holy shit that's only slightly less than double what the bolt has in torque. Now I wanna drive a spark EV and see what it's like!


CleverNickName-69

My theory is that they just used a much lower reduction gear in the Spark. They pull hard up to 50-60 mph and then seem to get a lot less efficient after that. From a stop, the acceleration is limited by available traction. While having the weight of the battery where it is makes it handle really well, not having the weight over the drive wheels makes is easy to spin the tires on launch. I wish Chevy would make a dual-motor awd Bolt GT, but I think they want to put power like than in something more expensive.


intrepidzephyr

The Bolt is already such a go-kart!


Space2999

Yeah those lease deals were the steal. Mine has since been passed down the family, but if it were still my dd, might have a 16” square setup by now. People claim to have had good success fitting them.


CleverNickName-69

Yeah, I fitted wider rims and 205 width tires, which was much stickier. It would rub a little at full lock, but how often do you really need full lock? I left the rim size at 15" though. It seems like the sidewall was pretty thin already.


Space2999

Not much in a car that’s like 80” long


Frubanoid

I've seen some in NY but not sure if sold in the state


The_Great_Squijibo

I drove one in Canada many years ago. It was privately owned by a local letting people test drive it at a little ev car show. Super fun little car. Also drove a Renault Twizzy at the same show, but just in a parking lot, it wasn't road legal. Not sure why they had it there, they aren't even sold in North America. Now that was like a fighter jet/go cart.


TurtleNorthwest

Off lease they became available in other states. I have a 2015 Fiat 500e I purchased in Washington state. Almost bought a 2015 Spark, but the dealership that had it didn’t have a level 1 charging cable for it and wouldn’t get one…except maybe as part of the purchase agreement. I asked if they would sell a gas car without a fuel filler tube to the tank. It was 2018 and EVs were still new to the general market in our area. I decided to wait and picked up the Fiat when it became available. Still have it, but added a 2018 BMW i3s Rex last year.


settlementfires

He got one for 5500 and now his gas is free. That's awesome!


Miserable-Alfalfa-85

I suggested this to a Jeep owner having woes...


Neglected_Martian

The total range of the car is 67 miles and your commute is 60 miles?! That’s cutting it pretty close, hope it does not get cold where you live.


busstamove14

They charge at work too


Neglected_Martian

Oh gotcha, 30 miles each way makes more sense.


chfp

30 mi each way and he charges at work


Dry-Sprinkles854

Yep 60 miles or so round trip, however my spark has regenerate breaking so I usually get home with an extra 25 miles due to that ( and work charging) otherwise I’d definitely be making use of public chargers never had to do that yet, I’ve learned that whatever the range says I’ll get waaay more than that, guess I’ll find out when it gets cold how much my range dips, but i should have a bolt by then


TacoChowder

Every EV has regenerative braking, it makes a difference but not 25 miles. It's 99% you charging at work lol


Dry-Sprinkles854

🤣 right I didn’t think about that lol


bomber991

Yeah the regen braking is already factored in to its range of 67 miles. Definitely being able to charge at work is what’s allowing you to make the trip. Is it just Level 1 charging at work?


cashew76

Keep it slow on windy days. If you live where it gets cold, the first day the battery heater runs is going to be challenging. L1 charging at work sounds good though. Congratulations, Welcome to EV, keep those fuel savings in an account to trade up to a Bolt, winter range can be half.


Virtual-Hotel8156

On extremely cold days, I suggest pre-heating the cabin while plugged-in if possible. This will use shore power to warm up the cabin instead of using the battery. Also, use the seat heaters instead of the cabin heater. The seat heaters use about 50w of power while the cabin heater can use up to 6,000w. That's a huge difference, especially on a car with a small battery like the Spark. Granted, it won't use 6000w the entire drive. Once the cabin warms-up, the draw will drop down, but it's still much better to use the seat heaters if you can live with it.


ConditionUsual

Cold weather kills range. A lot of that is running the cabin heat. Since having an EV I’ve noticed I dress in the car as I would outside. If it’s winter, I just buckle in wearing my coat. Less heat, and less work needed.


foochacho

I have range anxiety for OP.


jz187

>I’m not paying for electric because my electric is included in my rent lol, I remember back in the day when I used to mine bitcoins at home because my landlord covered electricity. Granted electric is still cheaper, but part of your savings is literally coming from getting other people to pay for your consumption.


nikatnight

It still counts. My employer has free L2 chargers. I love it. 


Remarkable-Host405

Mine does too, but it's only 15 miles there and back and my volt can do the full trip, so it's not a huge benefit. It's less than a buck to charge my volt, and half charge is only 50 cents


Dry-Sprinkles854

Yes and I’m extremely lucky that’s the case, and I don’t have to reply on public charges at all, even though m sure that wouldn’t be to terrible, definitely less than gas I’m sure!


runnyyolkpigeon

Doesn’t change the fact that it is still paid for. I don’t know any landlords paying for their tenant’s gasoline.


settlementfires

Still would probably only be a couple bucks a day. I figured out my e bike commute was about a nickel a day. I split utilities with my two roommates, so it's only 1.666 cents a day!


dr3d3d

I miss heating my house with bitcoin...


Remarkable-Host405

Same. I did it with two whatsminers, but now they're so unprofitable, they can't even make more than the difference in the price heating with natural gas costs


smoke1966

I made a trip last week to visit guys I used to work with, 70 mile round trip, got there and they had a charger at the dealer they now work for. plugged in while we talked for a while. got home with as much range left as when I left. free trip :)


dr3d3d

This isn't factored in enough, almost all grocery stores here have free level 2 charging... i gain 3x more fuel than I use while running errands.


Least_Story8693

The best has been lucking out at movie theaters that have L2. Honestly having L2 at shopping centers has incentivized me to go to those businesses more. Now I just need Costco to jump on board


dr3d3d

I don't know if I'm normal, I can easily afford gas, but I literally used to not do things because of the cost of gas... iv driven my 2023 niro ev that iv owned since November 37,000km it has cost $500 in "fuel". Never having to factor in time to "fuel up" and starting each day with a full tank is a game changer. So freeing.


BraddicusMaximus

In commuting from Raleigh to Durham daily. About 73 miles round trip. In my Bolt it’s about $2.30 a day. So happy. Saving so much.


Joshua--

The electricity rates are so amazing there. You’d think the EV adoption rate would be higher. I plan on helping my mom buy an EV when I visit Durham in a month or two.


BraddicusMaximus

NC has some of the fastest uptake in EV adoption. And the state hasn’t had subsidies.


Joshua--

Ah, I suppose I don’t see that well represented during my visits. Here in western Mass they’re everywhere… which the subsidies play a huge help, I’m sure. Good to know though, I thought folks were crazy for not taking advantage of those electricity rates.


BraddicusMaximus

I commute 73 miles round trip. EVs are plentiful. See lots of Bolts and Tesla. A few Vinfast too which has been surprising. At our house we have 4 chargers, 3 Smart ED, Etron, Bolt, Kona EV, Miata EV conversion, Leaf, and BMW i3.


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Dull_Investigator358

Same here. My only problem is not being able to justify purchasing an electric car since I own paid-off, reliable low mileage gas cars. When factoring in insurance and tire costs the status quo always wins, especially due to not needing to drive as much as before.


ProbablyMyRealName

You only need to drive that Spark for 15 months before it has paid for itself in gas savings alone. In that time I’m sure you will have also saved significant maintenance costs. Good buy!


chronocapybara

All I'm getting out of this is how crazy cheap gas prices are in the USA haha


wembley

And yet people still think they’re so high that they want to elect a probable felon.


AlphamaleNJ

Nice . Buddy just picked up his first ev, we have a 23 model y but hegrabbed an early model s for under 10k with the used ev credits Hes loving it and nice segway to see if they want to go all in on a new one in the future. Good luck with the spark!


baskura

Awesome aint it? I don't miss fuel stations one bit.


TheRipeTomatoFarms

Its not just paying for gas....its the friggin' inconvenience of it all.


[deleted]

>I used to drive a huge gas guzzler Lincoln and I averaged 60 miles round trip from work commute > I earn a modest income Well yeah. The problem wasn't gas. It was buying a big, expensive SUV. You could have also saved a ton of money going for a Corolla.


bmmalli1055

Seriously this is the best perk. My note on my niro is a little more than my small gas suv but I'm saving money because I drive a lot for work. We use my niro for anything it can handle and we feel comfortable with which has been a lot more than we thought.


bumboclawt

Yep. At my old apartment I used to pay .17 cents/kw. So one charge from 20-80% would run me about 6-8 bucks. My current apartment has free L2 charging 🙌🏿 while work has charging for .06 cents/kw 🙌🏿🙌🏿


in_allium

6 cents per kWh? That's amazing. Mine charges $.20/kWh and that's cheap for the area...


merinowooltallmax

Not sold outside of Japan but we have a Nissan Sakura (180 km in range/about 110 miles) and damn it's been great. Super smooth, regenerative breaking, clean design, and like you said, no need to pump gas.


PhilDunderpants

My normal commute to work is about 74 miles round trip 5 days a week that’s 370 miles In a month that’s roughly 1480, probably more because there’s always diversions. I am lucky to be able to charge for free at work via their solar panels once a week (twice if I’m being greedy) and I am averaging 4.3 m/kwh (mile per kilowatt hour) at the moment. In a petrol or diesel car that’s equivalent to 145 mpg. I charge once a week at a public charger for £30 to get around 250 miles. To drive to work for a whole month on £120 for 1480 miles is such a game changer for me when fuel prices are as high as they are. I just wouldn’t be able to get the same value per mile I don’t think.


Bassman1976

Where I live, gas is around 1,75$/l (so around 7$ CAD/ gallon, or 5,13 USD) and electricity is 10 cents/kwh (7,3 cents US) Iwe drive about 45,000 miles a year between my wife and I. We now both have an EV .


Plop0003

That is totally stupid to compare gas guzzler Linkoln to an EV. Why dont you compare your EV to a similar size Toyota Hybrid with over 40mpg or even over 50mpg.


Mansa_Sekekama

Wait until he finds out about the 2nd generation Chevy Volt ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|flip_out)(PHEV with 53 miles of EV range and 300 miles from the gas engine as backup for longer drives/trips) You can get them(2016 model probably) for around the same amount you paid for the Spark but since you already have it, just enjoy it and congrats.


Dry-Sprinkles854

I’ll will be looking into that for sure thanks for the suggestion !!


Nimabeee_PlayzYT

I'm a first-time car buyer, and I was about to inherit my dad's altima because he was looking for a second car for our family. I instead bought a 15' leaf and I have been able to save a huge amount of money compared to using my dad's car. I'm working minimum waye in retail, and my dad's car is very inefficient, I'm saving $50 a month on gas money or more. (I'm spending less than $20 on charging) I'm really glad I could have a great start in my adulthood with saving this much money and paying off my car from the get-go.


NotCanadian80

Electricity cost money too. For me I have solar but I invested a lot into it up front. The best part is getting rid of the errand to get gas.


[deleted]

Dependent on location as places have outrageous rates. But I’m making out like a bandit. Charge free at work. Never use it for trips.


Space2999

65k on our spark and service has been nothing but tires. Also, you’ll go thru 3-4 sets of fronts for every set of rears. Also, if yours has ecopias, do yourself a favor and try something with actual traction. Moving up to a bolt is really nice. Doesn’t quite have the go kart feel, but the huge jump in range and more deluxe features make it a steal at current used prices. And I always have to lol at the prius crowd. You can find a cheap used bolt in primo condition all day, whereas a cheap used prius is going to be best to hell and probably being sold bc the service needed costs more than the car is worth.


edum18

That's great! Just be cautious when it's too cold because it will affect your range


NoxiousNinny

As gas in the NorthEast continue to rise as we enter the summer months I am more than happy to plug in my MachE and chuckle as I drive past gas stations.


GuyWhoLikesTech

You really went with the lowest cost option. Good on you.


veryjuicyfruit

Sadly where i live, electricity at public chargers is just slightly cheaper than gas.  For home charging i'd need to rent a parking spot with a charger, which is rare and would cost me 100-150 bucks per month


jetylee

My off lease CPO BMW i3 that I paid $25k for has already put $21k back into a dedicated savings account in almost 4 years and 60k miles. When I’m done with this endeavor maybe 3 years from now I get a FREE NEW EV soon.


homertool

smart decision to switch from a large gas guzzler to a $5500 EV!


TinkerMelle

My husband was spending $600/mo in gas before he bought his Lightning last January. Now that money just stays in our bank account and it was life changing. It took a few months for the "Did we forget to pay a bill?" "Why is there still money in the bank account?" feeling to go away.


AMLRoss

Welcome to the club. And despite what social media would have us all believe, (that's EVs don't work) the reality is that they do work. And the fact that ev sales are constantly on the rise just shows everyone else thinks so too.


rimalp

Now that's a *really* skewed perspective 1) You drove a "a huge gas guzzler Lincoln".....that's entirely your own fault. You could have driven a smaller much more gas efficient vehicle the whole time 2) You're not paying for electricity ....so the whole comparison is moot to begin with


Curious-Welder-6304

Getting gas is a pain in the ass. I procrastinate and then it's never at a convenient time.


DanielCA77

Just an FYI, your range will likely drop some in the winter.


Mykilshoemacher

Wait until you can go without a commute or just ebike to work. That’s life changing. You’re still losing time now and stressing.  Also bolts can be had in decent shape for 10k after the tax reddit of 4K 


West_Enthusiasm1699

… and then wonders why rent was increased by $200 next year


Salmundo

I had a Spark EV. Absolute blast to drive in town. Surprising amount of room in the front seats.


Miserable-Alfalfa-85

Yes you do what you do....good job


Lahtka

My very first EV was a spark ev. Boy did I love that car and I did exactly what you did I moved up to a Chevy Bolt now I'm driving a lightning


Fickle_Dragonfly4381

18.5¢/mile is hilariously high for a gas car, you're not saving because you're using electricity you're saving because you're not driving such an inefficient car. My Corolla (purchased last year new, ~$25,000) gets 50 MPG on the highway and is usually 7-8¢/gal.


Dense-Sail1008

Do you mean 18.5 c/mile?


Fickle_Dragonfly4381

Yes, whoops


cdofortheclose

I’ve gone to a gas station about 5 times in 3 years to fill up my wife’s van. Maybe another 20 times to DCFC at Pilot Flying J.


Fun_Muscle9399

I just bought a used Model 3 LR and am in the process of getting solar panels. My short term costs won’t change much, but I’ll be saving a lot once the car and solar panels are paid for.


RobbieKangaroo

We have had our ID.4 for a little over 2 years. I was driving our seldomly used CRV to the gas station this weekend thinking does this now feel like driving a garden tractor? I am paying $50 to fill this up. $50. I can’t believe how often I used to pay that.


Level_9_Turtle

Been driving a Volt since 2019 and though I do have to get gas (5-7 gal)every 10-15 commuting days my savings are insane for my 300 mile weekly commute. Enjoy


Icy_Produce2203

At 70 or 75 MPH, the Rav 4 and CRV, etc are getting 20 MPG. I have 60,000 miles and 28 months with my 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5........$12,000 NOT spent on dino juice. I have solar on my home and save US$2,000 per year, NO electric bill. Using my solar and putting clean sunpower in my EV battery.....30 cents to go 20 miles vs. say $4 bucks. EVs are so much more expensive than gas cars!!!!!!!!!


cowboyjosh2010

I have a Kia EV6, but I wrecked it two months ago. I now have it back in my hands, good as new, but in the meantime I was driving my spare car, an 18 MPG Ford Explorer. I went from spending about $60/month in electricity for the EV6 to spending $300-$360/month in gas for the Explorer. Now, sure, the EV6 is a more costly vehicle than a $5,500 used, well, *anything*, but all the same: those fueling cost savings are very real.


Emergency_Bother9837

It’s a great option if money is tight for sure. Nothing like a v8 tho.


LeDave1110

I've saved almost €5k on gas in 4 years (including electricity which is an avg of ~35ct/kWh in Germany including a share of public fast charging) compared to my previous car with my VW eUp. That's not even including money saved on oil changes (would be another ~400€ by now) and other ICE specific service cost. Including incentives I paid 16k for the car (lease + buyout after 3 yrs), so including the savings I'm already at 11k compared to my old car. Previous car cost me 6k used with 85k km on the clock. So just in the warranty period of 8 years alond I'll be at the same price as a used shitbox with a brand new EV compared to keeping my old car. And I expect it to outlast that quite easily. If you have any option to reliably charge at a frequently visited location (home, work, supermarket, gym, etc.) at a decent price, go get yourself an EV as your daily. Got about 50k km on the clock now with barely any visible degradation beyond the initial few percent that are to be expected with any battery.


BigSkyMountains

Yep, financial savings are massive when compared to particularly inefficient SUV's and trucks. I was talking to a contractor-type about electric trucks. While EV trucks still are more expensive on total cost of ownership, the gas savings were kind of crazy when we did the math. Changing out his Dodge Ram for a Rivian or Lightning would save him about $17k over 100,000 miles at residential electric rates.


ionLaz

Why would anyone drive a Lincoln, especially commute in a Lincoln. Any other car on this planet would have been a better choice and cost less to commute in.


CaliDreamin87

So he said, 270 miles full tank. I had a camry, mine was like 400-50 a tank. He's still be spending about $250 in gas/month.


Miserable-Alfalfa-85

Because a Lincoln is comfortable and cushy it just eats a lot of has.


Terrh

My dad has a 2000 grand marquis and I have to say it's pretty damn nice to drive.


Robie_John

The real problem is living 30 miles from work. That’s silly. 


Berkyjay

Or driving a Lincoln.


Robie_John

Also true!!


AdministrativeGas927

Found the non-Californian. It’s a necessity to live out here my dude. 


Robie_John

Not if you have money…


CaliDreamin87

So what happens when that starts acting like a phone battery? You said you get 10-20 miles left. My home battery held charge great for a long time. Would charge it once at night. Fast forward 3 years. I'm putting it on charge about 3-4x a day. A 100% battery (and time estimate) doesn't mean 100% 3 years later. Are EVs same way?


teh_trout

Phones push batteries really hard. EV batteries do degrade but generally it’s nothing like a phone or other small electronics.


Remarkable-Host405

Yes, batteries lose capacity with time and use. It could be an issue for op in the future. They could also drive slower to mitigate this


Intelligent_Top_328

Thank you elon for accelerating the shift to Ev.


EaglesPDX

First Prius sold in US in 2001. You missed a lot of boats. You chose an extreme gas guzzler and your surprised when you drive an efficient car?


asu3dvl

You could have had 345 Ubers at $16 a piece just on the price of your EV not including insurance or eventually? Tires.


Class8guy

OP mentioned 60mile roundtrip most ubers these days are $1-1.30/mile lets say $1/mile for esitimating. You average 250days of work a year 500 rides at $60 a day that's over $15,000 a year in uber, vastly cheaper to own at OP's purchase price.


Terrh

Where are you getting a $16 uber for a 30 mile trip? And what is OP supposed to do after day 172 when they run out of uber money? If anything, you just proved how horrible of an idea taking a taxi to work is.


b00c

rent increase in 3..2..1..


SpyCake1

Other than the whole "your LL is paying your EV charging" business. Your other option would have been to get a hybrid. An old Prius C or something for $8k - 50mpg. So a bit over a gallon a day in your case. I'm gonna assume you're in CA and it's $5/gal - so even at $6/day in gas - that's less than half of what it was costing in your Lincoln. Not "free" (or even $3 of electricity were you paying yourself). But yeah - literally the middle ground. But you do you. Sounds like you found a solution to your problem, and it's not stupid if it works.


Dry-Sprinkles854

$5500 was my absolute limit, my Lincoln was on borrowed time with a dead cylinder and I needed to act fast on an EV if I was gonna take the jump.. it turned out ok in the end.. wish i had 8k would have gotten the i3 for. $7500


null640

$8k? What world?


Mikcole44

LOL, not in Canada-land that's for sure.


SpyCake1

US - Looks liek they start around $7k on a quick autotrader search.


iwoketoanightmare

Pretty common if you search outside of where they were popular. For a decent Rex I'd absolutely go pick it up and drive it home stopping every 150mi for gas after I flash the bios with the gas tank de-nerf version that had an artifically low empty limit.