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Realityhrts

You had a 0% probability of getting filled at a $10 credit šŸ˜‚. Iā€™m not sure why they banned you for it but also unsure of what you were trying to accomplish.


OCedHrt

OP seems to claim that it was filled. Then reversed.


Realityhrts

If itā€™s rejected that happens before the order is sent to the market. It didnā€™t fill. Not like it had a chance of filling anyway.


The_Clarence

Itā€™s probably worth noting that even if he bought this (he tried to get credit lol) the short would almost certainly get exercised that same day. Itā€™s like trying to backdoor into $400m in margin


Radiant_Ad_7300

Oh how reality hurts.


Naturalgainsbro

That trade would have never filled. Heā€™s lying saying it did.


ScheduleSame258

The short leg requires $444 million dollars as margin. Doesn't matter if it's a debit or credit spread - the short leg still means you need margin balance. Because that leg can get exercised without the long leg being exercises. No one is giving you $444m on a $32k account.


BentPin

OP seems to think with enough lube etrade might consider it


dotDisplayName

This isnā€™t RH


readit145

ā€œConsider lube options then weā€™ll talk about the loanā€


Rostrow416

So calls on JiffyLube?


SimonNicols

Not ā€œenoughā€ lubeā€¦. More like ā€œallā€ the lube


Syst0us

Plot twist..op is trump trying to get his bond money.


PIK_Toggle

I was thinking about this. Can Trump sell a bunch of ITM calls that expire more than six months out and still be compliant with his share lockup? Given the number of shares that he has, this could be a way to raise the bond money that he needs.


occy3000

This is suspiciously close to what a former president needed for a bond payment. Is this Don?


mitch2888

The margin requirement is always the spread with minus the credit received. So the trade should require 0 margin. If someone exercise the short side you can exercise the long side and offset the shares. If you can actually get filled for 10 is another question though.


Jahack_D3eZ_NahuTz

Looks like they gave him 10m tho lol


dot-not-feather95

Hi...im always wanting to learn more and more about options trading. Why did you state that the trade OP posted has 0% probability of getting filled?


Realityhrts

Buy 100 sell 110 on deep in the money call options means it should cost you close to $10 to do the trade. A little less due to various reasons but still itā€™s a net debit spread to purchase. Here OP is attempting to get paid $10 as a credit on it. Thatā€™s why it shows profit at expiry of $20 on a $10 spread. A similar thing would be to expect to be paid $10 to receive a stock worth $10. Thatā€™s just not going to happen.


dot-not-feather95

Got it. Thanks for the clarity šŸ˜€šŸ‘šŸ½


SirGlass

>Iā€™m not sure why they banned you for it but also unsure of what you were trying to accomplish. OP probably lied and said he has 10 years of options trading experience Then sets up a debit spread, calls in and does not understand why he can't collect a credit on a debit spread Etrade probably realized he lied about his option trading experience because normally this should never happen and if it did it would basically be a free money glitch


Manouchehri

And if there was an extremely unlikely glitch, it would be a hassle for Etrade to deal with.


travelers_memoire

When I was in my teens I thought making wash trades helped ā€œmove the marketā€. No idea why I thought that or what ā€œmoving the marketā€did for anyone but dam was I proud of the movement I created.


thisdoesnotmeantrue

Hi! I like what people on this comment thread are saying but here's my pov, I could have entered the same trade as a debit for $1 to keep it in line with being a debit spread but what I don't get is shouldn't the execution of the trade depend on the probability that the market maker will earn the points on the transaction? With 100% chance of profit based on Etrades own model I don't get why they would disallow such a transaction let alone ban me.


YoshiWins

With all respect, you need to learn more about how this really works before trying to do spreads in your Roth IRA. The short answer here is that their model was completely wrong, because there was zero chance of the trade actually being filled - for a myriad of reasons. With such an obvious lack of understanding of options fundamentals, E*Trade can very reasonably deduce that you werenā€™t truthful on your application to trade options, thus itā€™s within their right to kick you. Again, Iā€™m not trying to belittle you at all here. But, the answer to your question of why/how would they ban you is rooted in the lack of understanding of what you were trying to trade here.


frankzappa1988

This belongs on r/wallstreetbets


textonic

Ditto... guy went full regards...


Mammoth_Parsley_9640

my kinda guy šŸ‘¦


Plumpitup99

The Real RobinHood! Lmao šŸ¤£


plaugexl

Yeah baby!!


JohnDillermand2

He met his personal risk tolerances.


mat_srutabes

Guh


yasaswygr

They fired him for being stupid


Zombisexual1

This reminds me of the guy that was trying to get like $36,000 in credit when he needed like $4 mill collateral and he was wondering 1. Why robinhood wasnā€™t letting him do the trade and 2. Why people donā€™t do it since it was like a 96% chance of profit šŸ˜‚


Pitiful-Region2723

Is there any other pages that cover trading ect. Iā€™m new too all of this and Iā€™m very interested in learning more


KamikazeKeebler

Been scrolling think I was there the whole time


XanthicStatue

I see you have learned trading from the regards at r/wallstreetbets


thisdoesnotmeantrue

I actually love wall Street beers and bets


whaler76

That was the automated reply he got for the rejection šŸ˜‚šŸ¤£šŸ˜‚šŸ¤£


Ragepower529

You can learn about spreads


thisdoesnotmeantrue

Tell me more! I thought I did it right?


Working-Poem-5567

It got rejected because youā€™re trying to get a credit for entering a debit spread.


cuckofallcucks

šŸ˜‚


SirGlass

I am guessing OP lied and said he was an expert options trader with 10 years experience trading options. He then calls into etrade trying to explain he wants to get a credit for his debit spread and trade realizes he lied and tells him to take a hike


Plumpitup99

Thatā€™s likey a level 3 technique. You likely only have level 2 or less.


vtopia

OP was never filled, just interpreted it as such ā€œand reversedā€ eg not filled. Trade would have been rejected with something like ā€œthe net credit you entered exceeds the regulatory margin requirement.ā€ If they closed his account, itā€™s simply because after completing the account opening questionnaire acknowledging X years experience trading options, he demonstrated in a single trade that he actually had none.


Sspawnmoreoverlords

It could be because Iā€™m high, but your last sentence is written beautifully. Well done.


EntertainmentIll2135

Also high and agree thats some nice prose


theBacillus

Next time cut a few zeros from the end


Impossible-Oil2345

Oh, OPs getting filled alright. Just in a Wendy's dumpster kind of way


thisdoesnotmeantrue

Could I not have entered the same trade as a debit for $1?


Brill45

What youā€™re trying to do is called a Call Debit Spread. But then you are trying to get credit for the spread which makes no sense (thus the $0 maximum loss potential). Also those spreads would never get filled anyway. Debit spreads work by putting money upfront and the maximum loss is limited to net debit paid (the call contracts you bought). If the stock closes at expiration above the strike price of the short contract (the calls you sold) then that minus the debit you paid is your profit. If none of this makes sense to you you probably shouldnā€™t be trading options, much less spreads. Unfortunately you didnā€™t discover a cheat code to make $20 million


Chicago5hadow

This guy fucks


ilovejjd

This is the best comment so far. You canā€™t collect a credit on this trade


Crime_Dawg

Theoretically it would be possible if you didn't do it as a spread and bought each leg individually at the absolute max / min of each leg. There's just a basically 0% chance of that occurring.


11010001100101101

Yea this should be considered a debit spread not credit but it looks like Etrade has the description wrong because it says "the credit(that you receive)". Maybe because it's a net positive for the premium because OP thinks it's possible for him to get those asking and bid prices?


Better_Ad_3588

The credit is from the other quoted b/o and would never get filled. E*trade would have to keep this order on its books and itā€™s a waste of bandwidth so they told him to pound sand for even trying this basic bs.


XxTreeFiddyxX

I bet they fired him because he keeps doing stupid or he's extremely belligerent and unprofessional. They undo a bad trade and educate you, keep doing that and you're costing them money


pinicarb

Someone explain what he did pls


Realityhrts

Presumably Etrade didnā€™t want an order of this size from an account of this size. Basically no equity backing a very large options position. The credit spread aspect is irrelevant because it wasnā€™t a cheat code or anything, just a large bid ask spread on a deep ITM spread. To compound the problem heā€™s doing it out of a Roth IRA. I guess in theory if he had about $20 mil in a regular account and attempted to cross this spread there he could put $20 mil into his Roth lol. Of course that cross would never actually happen. Free money to Citadel if attempted.


LiabilityFree

Nah not free money just an incredible stupid trade. First off op is trying to sell a debt spread for a credit. But also a credit at the absolute max the spread would be for a debit LOL. This entire trade says I donā€™t know what Iā€™m doing. Op clearly lied about their experience, tried to take on massive risk (10,000 contracts at 100 each is nearly 100m). If I saw this hit my desk it would be an immediate red flag.


Realityhrts

Yeah he really thought that someone would give him a $10 credit on a a nearly $10 debit spread šŸ¤£


iwantac8

He set up a debit spread, but wants to receive a credit. He will never get filled, but he is also buying a spread that is really deep in the money. He will just get assigned the next day in the short leg and end up with a huge margin balance. So many things are wrong with this trade and somehow I feel like OP thinks he is the victim.


goldensunfelix

Donā€™t quit your day job if you think this kind of comedy hour will replace your salary rofl. šŸ¤£


Trade-Runner

Hilarious, actually.


AnthonyGuns

is this a joke?


MDMarshall

New Reddit account, made just to post this issue. So, probably, yes.


BasilVegetable3339

Itā€™s called not doing business with morons. Or more specifically a ā€œfree rideā€.


kimjongspoon100

Investors aren't allowed to use IRA assets as collateral for a loan, so any options trade that requires margin can't be executed in an IRA.


lobeams

Not entirely true. IRA accounts can enjoy limited margin, which allows most spreads.


AdUnhappy7878

Honestly, I am really happy to see etrade would ban someone for doing this.


JohnBanaDon

Instead of trading, OP deserves to be running for office in local or federal government. Trying to get credit for something where he needs to pay the dues :)


kabochaspicecoffee

Saw this on my home page. I got my account kicked off eTrade 10 years ago. My actions were opening an account, then immediately opening the foreign currency account for some allied countries currency like JPY. That's all I did. Then I got banned and had to fight to get my money back too. I just wanted to use eTrade to trade on foreign markets, since my normal broker was fine for US markets. I think they must be really quick to ban people for perceived transgressions.


Chipsky

sounds like they felt you were a liability... based on this trade (?) probably not, but I'd wager you have built some sort of history with them.


Crime_Dawg

This trade proves he's a liability. Do you really want someone able to trade option spreads who has no understanding of a simple bid vs ask?


K2Mok

Curious to know if you realized that you were asking to be given $10m for something that should cost you $26m?


thisdoesnotmeantrue

Yes. I had not seen a spread that overlapped so heavily so I thought I would try it but people are trying me I'm a butt hit so I shoulda just kept to it being a debit.


Trade-Runner

Guh! Is that you?


Plumpitup99

Lmao šŸ¤£


buenotc

The fact I know the reference.... Damn šŸ˜‚


KeeperOfTheChips

My well regarded friend. Your order has no chance to fill at that price. Best regards.


Kryxilicious

I thought I was on WSB for a second


Reminiscentlobster03

You should look up the tale of u/1ronyman and why this could actually go very poorly for you and that etrade saved you a headache and banned you for being a regard


Crime_Dawg

There's a 99.9999% chance if this had filled and he was smart about closing, he'd have made a killing. Obviously it would never fill and ETrade can look at this and realize the guy can't even comprehend simple bid ask on a single leg, let alone a spread, but that's neither here nor there.


Reminiscentlobster03

Except for assignment risk. Which are regularly early assigned, because who buys .99 delta options other than people who have no problem exercising to balance their book. Again, look at the tale of the legend that is u/1ronyman. Can't go tits up


Thisguymoot

Part of what killed ironyman too is that, because he was selling options so deep ITM, there was no volume. A MM will still take the other end of the trade, but he had to sell at a discount on the bid/ask. He did just that, enough so that it basically was an arbitrage play for a MM (his short calls had more intrinsic value than the cost of the option) essentially guaranteeing early assignment.


Iam-WinstonSmith

Why thats big money for them? Try Tastytrade they do'nt get bent out of shape with strange trades. In fact the encourage them. I did a nuts trade with 1000 contracts one time paid 650 USD in commission made 1650 USD. Not really worth it. When doing trades like that test in small amounts first. 10,000 is a lot for market makers to catch.


throwawaybk99

Interesting. Where does tasty encourage strange trades? I love trading trying random things on high volume stocks (actually got a credit on a single debit spread once) to see theyā€™ll hit, but I know not to push my luck. Maybe I need to check out tasty. If I do Iā€™ll ask for your referral link


HydrocodonesForAll

Just a quick question for you: who do you think is on the other side of that trade? Like, what counterparty would be willing to *pay you* to let you *long debit spreads*? What market maker would ever do that? Once you can answer that question, you will have the answer to yours.


No-Application2547

šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


lowrisk_highreward

Did you check the times & sales for the options?


ciumpalaku

OP could have entered each leg separately (buy leg at bid, sell leg at ask). but he only had 32k buying power lol


Crime_Dawg

Easy, just sell the call first, can't go tits up!


Marleydingo_16

My boy was trying to get a quick loanšŸ¤­


Jim1612

nikola


CommercialOccasion72

This was never going to fill


Plumpitup99

They only allow 3 day trades per rolling five days? Maybe you did. Maybe not.


Buttdagger24

Itā€™s simple. You donā€™t own shit. Itā€™s an IOU. DRS is the only way.


firefish45

What aren't you telling us??


Snowwhite_68

How could you get a credit for a debit spread, that trade isnā€™t possible


ApprehensiveRoad3098

Sue if it was above board


7222_salty

ā€œIt hitā€


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Crime_Dawg

Do you comprehend even the most basics of option trading to make this claim? This has nothing to do with money laundering and everything to do with him not understanding bid vs ask spreads and thus being a liability for option trading.


Honestyonly22

You donā€™t have the collateral


FullRage

Be careful with your Roth gesh. Donā€™t use it for leverage or margin.


Coronator

What Iā€™ve learned from this thread is far too many people are given permission to trade optionsā€¦


ScottishTrader

And many post about not getting higher options levels, its no wonder brokers want to tighten things . . .


Harmonixs8

How can you be fired as a customer?


Crime_Dawg

Because he's a liability. If they continue to allow him to trade options, chances are he'll blow up his account 10x over and then the broker will be on the hook for the margin call.


TrollyMcBurg

because ur a fucking dip shit that doesnt know wtf ur doing


ride_electric_bike

Or it got immediately exercised or was about to and they saw your buying power


kyuuei

Me: I'm ignorant of how stocks work, I'm going to float in some stock-y spaces to try and learn. Also me: I bought a stock! I think I understand this! Also also me, reading every single explanation on here and Still not truly understanding this joke: I'm ignorant of how stocks work.


Elguapo69

Me: read investopedia article on options trading Also Me: realizes none of this stuff was covered in it


Odd-Vegetable-7614

Aside from what all else saidā€¦someone has to purchase other side. I could put a sell $1M calls for Nvda at $50/ doesnā€™t mean it gets filled/no one wants to but(I mean if itā€™s something other than NVDA)


foranpower42

very suspicious that they closed your account. the trade was unlikely to get a fill. etrade closing your account makes it seem like you got a fill and something shady is going on. perhaps consulting a lawyer is worthwhile.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


E_Man91

This WSB? Lol You have a massive margin issue. This order would never have gotten filled anyway, so no, you didnā€™t get screwed.


Atriev

In a Roth IRA too. šŸ˜‚


BigRiskBiggerReturn

Get a lawyer


DjangoUnflamed

For what? Trying to make a 444 million trade with zero collateral?


garoodah

If you actually got filled I'd be surprised but thats an obvious mispricing on the 2026 spreads. I wouldve done the same thing, you cant lose.


adlubmaliki

Is it just me or does etrade have the kinkos or fedex office logo?


maceman10006

Youā€™re asking for a 444m margin when you have 32k available, no financial institution wants to be in the hook for that. Itā€™s gross negligence on their end.


Glum_Occasion_5686

Suck it up, nothing happened to Robinhood, nothing will happen here.


Cport6155

Why the fuck are you trading margin in a Roth IRA either. You trying to not retire?


Conscious_Fact_6008

Get a lawyer. Make them pay.


readrOccasionalpostr

The more I dove into this screenshot the funnier it got


iamtherepairman

You can do this with a ROTH IRA account? Cool.


Bama_74_auburn

WowšŸ¤¦šŸ¾ā€ā™‚ļøšŸ¤¦šŸ¾ā€ā™‚ļøšŸ¤¦šŸ¾ā€ā™‚ļøšŸ¤¦šŸ¾ā€ā™‚ļøwhy they mess up your pay day


LeViciouss1

you shouldnā€™t be trading clearly


captnmr

Sir, this is America. Options can be traded AT ANY TIME. Will eTrade let you trade on a $444M margin? Come on now.


Own_Laugh_386

This is the dumbest thing Iā€™ve ever seen in my life. You clearly demonstrated that youā€™ve never traded options before in your life. Iā€™d ban you as well for wasting my platformā€™s bandwidth like that.


menacce

The fact that E*trade would have to credit him 10mil before the trade even filled is grounds for closing an account because you cant play with the houses money.


spanishdictlover

Wow lol. I'm saving this.


momayham

Or did they use your money, made mad profit, the retro the invoice to reject the transaction, to you. But kept the money, only answering to Uncle Sam.


[deleted]

Yooo thats sick. I tried to cash a check from my mom's for 1 billion dollars. Bank said they didnt have the cash šŸ˜Ŗ


_jaelewis

Noob


MICKYxKNOCKS

Fuckin WSB bruh got smoked like a blunt by his broker for pulling some NVDA options shananigans. Classic... šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


Blooooon

This is the funniest shit Iā€™ve ever seen


Noeyiax

Cacacacacasinooo lol, e trade can't have you win at their own game .


clingbat

You can post on /wsb for karma. They love well regarded traders over there, this would be a hit.


isgood123

Fake


TeslaButtPlug

My butt plug ejected itself when I saw this post!


DjangoUnflamed

Same happened to me, but for a totally different reason


Jww2124

You set off E*Tradeā€™s regard monitor


8thStsk8r

Takes lots of money to make lots of money, your 32k was not enough. E*trade would have probably exercise this trade if it was a crooked politicians account.


MacGyver1911

This is either a troll or you should never open an account again. Like, ever.


IcyLet6480

What did you buy?.


e39boy

Ahhhh another person who hasn't studied finance, thinking they're "going to outsmart the brokerage limitations." I bet you legit thought you were going to be a millionaire when you pressed that button, didn't you? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. LEGIT HILARIOUS. Get a real job and a real hobby--clearly finance is not something you've studied or a real hobby. šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ’€šŸ’€šŸ’€šŸ’€šŸ’€šŸ’€šŸ’€


BkrB11

That wouldnā€™t be filled at a credit- let alone a $10 credit


meggstockup

Fidelity app option does not show max profit nor loss ... i looked and looked and nowhere to find


noodle80s

The website does


micaller

Everyone thinks they found a loophole. The margin needed in your account is too high


The_Egg_

I'm sure this isnt your first order like this?


BedroomCompetitive30

Anyone want solid trade Signal during the day, let me know. I had a cgc call earlier this week, as well as a acb call. Then earlier today I called out rh call for next week exp. Also a solid 35% on Tesla call earlier today. Reach out if youā€™re interested. Thanks. First few trades are free so what do you have to lose?


Jerzey08734

Bullshit


CaesarOfToday

Well no shit. How is any of that real money? Do people really believe they are buying anything when it comes to calls and puts? So all I have to do is spend like one percent of the value of whatever I am trying to invest in and get 1000 times the return? Does that make any since in the land of reliably?


kpres12

This deserves to be in Wall Street Bets lol


_drigo14

Bro they mark zuckerburged you šŸ˜Ž


YungSav69

LOL. a call debit spread where you receive a credit. Ya i would ban you too


sesameball

This must be a shitpost but I've got a real story for you back in 2008 when everything was going to the shitter i sold a ton of naked puts on MS at the low , showed my mortgage broker all the cash in my account and bought half a dozen rental properties


mightyminnow88

What do all those zeros even mean?? Ten thousand calls, imagine if they had to fill them by hand.


CovidCock69

u/zikadick69


stillSeeking42

Why did Etrade fire this firecracker of a customer? Because he put in order for 10k x 2 contracts? That too of NVDA rofl. Similar to the guy in the UK who was spoofing the market? Would love to know since most of the people in Etrade options desk have a good head on their shouldersā€¦ bet theyā€™d be ok be he put order in for 10 contracts. Sometimes if you ask for credit where debit is due the order gets rejected too.


CallMeCarl

Thanks for the laugh šŸ˜‚ I'm sure you're the only person that's thought of this ever lol


Relationcosecant

Lmfao rightfully so


Deonheman

you were too smart for them so they had to ban you from the platform


RevolutionaryLab6696

What ticker?


iwantac8

They might have fired you because you clearly have no idea what you are doing. Or you probably reached out to them and yelled at them for your own stupidity.


Dry_Signature_9157

Ticker?


DjangoUnflamed

There is a reason I donā€™t trade options. I donā€™t know what the fuck Iā€™m doing. Too many watch TikTok stock guys for 2 hours and think theyā€™re a pro. Half the guys on TikTok are full of shit, the other half wants your money to join a club thatā€™ll get you ā€œinside tipsā€ thatā€™s ā€œguaranteed ā€œ to make you 10k a day. Itā€™s all bullshit, stay in your lane, and only trade with the experience and money that you have. These same people also think they can outsmart the IRS.


CABSMeter

Iā€™m with you. I loathe options.


andrewpm2

It's not that difficult to set the BUY price at the ASK and set the SELL price at the BID for a net credit and do a trade analysis preview. Clicking the "execute trade" button is another story which even if he did, this trade would never execute on a 32K balance for that number of contracts. Although, it would be interesting to see if it would execute on a 50M account balance. But yes, one could technically do this trade w separate individual BUY and SELL orders (alot less contracts).


Wilson8151

Lol trying to collect $10 in credit to be LONG a $10 spread, doing it with 10,000 contracts/$10 million in premium, in a $32K IRA is wild.Ā  ā€œ99% chance of successā€ ā€” sure, but a 0% chance this trade would ever, ever fill.Ā 


Buds1422

Definitely Trump... deal


Maleficent-Rate5421

E*trade wonā€™t let you take advantage of any arbitrage. If you find it, theyā€™ll cancel the trade and likely do it themselves or front run your own trade. You need to book each leg separately which requires a lot more capital


tgurnstyle

This isnā€™t even set up to be a credit spread. Heā€™s buying 100ā€™s and selling 110s. That is a debit spread. OP misunderstood the whole order. Mid price would debit the account $8,000,000.


thisdoesnotmeantrue

I'm thinking about interactive brokers. Thank you!


No-Marsupial-7675

Trading in Roth IRA r/wsb


WallStreetBoners

Max loss: $0! Profits secured!


[deleted]

Who tf has 20 mil to gamble and then turns to Reddit for advice lol


virtualmillions

Free CashApp Gift Cards https://beacons.ai/cashpioneer


XanthicStatue

As you should


ShaggyEm

They were right to do so, they donā€™t like when people gamble with their money.


OwlTall7730

Order was placed for a credit but this spread is a debit. That is why the order rejected


apuxcom

This is what they call a ā€œfree lunchā€ trade and they reserve it for themselves. I got fucked the same way years back on GOOGL iron condors. Right after they reversed / blocked they ate all 400 contracts of opportunity for themselves. That said there are capital requirements you have to meet to have open risk. You were probably short of it.


Original-Snow9764

When I open a new account I limit my first transaction to 10m risk, not 20m


_Marak_

Dude tried to get 1000-1 margin from his Roth IRA. Regards my regards, truly regarded.


Iciyunvme

Yea no, noone is going to buy those. Even if you did get filled, good luck fulfilling obligations in the event of getting exercised.


michaelgonzalezz

What did I tell you about Morgan Stanley they are not been compliant ! Who underwrote the deal to purchase ETRADE ? When everything was just fine before purchase