>Now I hate E-Trade (especially for all that trouble and no shares)
Why? You do know the Reddit IPO was ~5 times oversubscribed, right? If an IPO is oversubscribed, your chances of being allocated shares is negatively impacted.
It would be the same way with virtually every other broker. This isn’t limited to just E-Trade.
Retail investors only got allocated a measly 8% of the shares listed. Between the shares issued by the company and existing investors selling their stake, that’s 22 million shares offered. 8% of that is 1.76 million shares.
That’s not a big amount when you take into consideration the number of brokers out there that offered their clients the opportunity to participate in the Reddit IPO, and the number of clients at each brokerage firm that likely opted into the IPO.
>How else can I transfer money out? Can I sell a naked call option on E-Trade, hoping to get assigned, and buy the same option with my other brokerage at the same time, forcing me to buy the stock and deliver it?
No, that’s not how that works. At all. You cannot transact with yourself.
Figure out what E-Trade needs from you to resolve your account issue, then transfer the money out, and take it as a lesson to pay more attention to high-profile IPOs like this before blindly diving in, lest you lose your shirt next time.
- I didn't lose any shirts. I signed up for ~0.5% of my net worth. I still have the cash, as long as E-Trade lets me get it out. I hate them and dont want to use them in the future unless they prioritize my allocation next time as compensation for what happened
- Why cant I transact with myself? Is it a legal restriction? Ar itrage people do it all the time, I thought?
- I expected if it is 5x oversubscribed that they give me 1/5 of what I signed up for. And learn to not oversubscribe next time. This is the same bullshit airlines pull off and at leash you get compensated
>unless they prioritize my allocation next time as compensation for what happened
E-Trade doesn’t owe you anything.
So what? You didn’t get any shares of RDDT at IPO. There are hundreds of thousands of investors just like you who bid for IPO shares of RDDT and also came up empty handed.
Arbitrage isn’t transacting with yourself. Arbitrage is buying an asset and then exploiting price differences for the same asset in a different market to make a profit.
Also, it’s not that transacting with yourself isn’t illegal, it’s that it’s impossible. You don’t know who you are transacting with in the open market when you buy/sell any security or derivative.
>I expected if it is 5x oversubscribed that they give me 1/5 of what I signed up for. And learn to not oversubscribe next time. This is the same bullshit airlines pull off and at leash you get compensated.
If an IPO is oversubscribed by a certain factor (such as 5x oversubscribed in Reddit’s case) that means there is demand for 5x as many shares as what is being offered.
In total, there were only 22 million shares of Reddit offered at IPO from a combination of earlier investors cashing out and the company selling new shares, but there was demand for 110 million shares from market participants.
Even with the greenshoe option, which allows the underwriting syndicate to sell an extra 15% more stock, that still doesn’t come close to meeting the demand for Reddit stock.
15% of 22 million is an extra 3.3 million shares, but those shares would be allocated to clients of the firms that participated in the underwriting of Reddit’s IPO, namely Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs and BofA Securities.
Also, comparing airlines overbooking flights to an oversubscribed IPO is an ineffective comparison for all intents and purposes.
Airlines overbook flights because they have millions upon millions of different data points that give them insight into how many people will statistically show up for any one flight, and occasionally everyone who books a flight actually shows up, but more often than not that is the exception rather than the expectation, so airlines still need to maximize revenue.
The same metrics cannot be used to determine how popular an IPO is going to be.
>E-Trade doesn’t owe you anything.
Sure, but I don't owe it to them to be their customer anymore. I have the right to a grudge and to wiring my money back out to my other brokerage.
>Arbitrage isn’t transacting with yourself. Arbitrage is buying an asset and then exploiting price differences for the same asset in a different market to make a profit
Yes, and arbitrage folks do that by buying on one exchange and selling on the other exchange at the exact same time, selling short if necessary, without transferring the asset over. Transferring the asset imparts significant time risk.
>Also, it’s not that transacting with yourself isn’t illegal, it’s that it’s impossible. You don’t know who you are transacting with in the open market when you buy/sell any security or derivative.
I don't think you understand. You don't need to know who you are transacting with. As long as you're going after an asset with sufficient liquidity it doesn't matter if you transact with 50 middlemen on the market before you get to your transaction on the other exchange.
If you sell (write) an option on one exchange, you get instant income and take on a certain amount of financial risk. If you buy the exact same income on another brokerage you pay the premium (exactly equal to that instant income you got on the other exahange) plus get the negative of that financial risk (i.e. profit). If both options expire worthless, you will have a loss on one brokerage and a profit on the other brokerage that are exactly opposite, which is functionally equivalent to a money transfer. It doesn't matter how many people on the market are in-between the two exact contracts being dealt with. And if both options expire in the money, you don't lose any money, you just accidentally did a money transfer in the wrong direction.
You absolutely do have that right, it won't change anything and if you participate in an IPO at that brokerage there is a good chance it will happen again.
What a shill ass account.
Etrade owes this man his money back. Anything beyond that is ridiculous. They took it without issue. They can give it back without issue.
Nowhere in my comment was I defending E-Trade. Don’t know where you got that inane idea.
OP neglected to do even the most basic of research about the Reddit IPO, and had the audacity to act like he had been defrauded and deserving of compensation when he was not allocated any shares.
5 minutes of Googling would’ve told him that the Reddit IPO was heavily oversubscribed, and that so little of the total shares offered in the Reddit IPO were set aside for users. (1.76 million out of 22 million shares, 8% of the offering.)
I also advised OP to figure out what it was that E-Trade needed from him so that he *could* withdraw his money from E-Trade back to his brokerage.
I imagine that OP has since figured out what E-Trade needed, has provided it to them, and thus been able to withdraw his funds.
So you weren't a previous customer, opened an account, transferred money in, the ~ 1 week later want to transfer the money out and most likely close the account....
If you were to look at this as an outsider, does that not sound fishy to you? It doesn't just scream fraud/money laundering/scam?
They didnt just steal it from you. They have an obligation as a financial institution to investigate suspicious activity. To me, this whole thing is textbook money laundering. Not saying you are, just saying that what happened is reason enough for them to be suspicious and review the situation more. The best option is to just call Etrade to get this sorted out. If you hate them that much, go to your bank you transferred this money from and ask them to recall the money from etrade. Not sure if they will be able to recall or not, especially if Etrade has it restricted right now, but its something you could try.
Here's why Im saying it smells like money laundering:
Step 1 - have dirty money
Step 2 - open etrade account and transfer money there
Step 3 - Leave money there for couple days then transfer money out
Step 4 - money is now "clean" and looks like it came from Etrade instead of where ever it was before Step 1
I talked to them twice and the restriction is still there after 2 weeks. I dont have time for coffee chats with their customer service. Option arbitrage would be a faster way to get my money out without those idiots
they want to know where i sleep, they want to know how much electricity i use. i'm fed up and moving my money out rather than this scam. my other banks and brokerages didn't ask for all that, they just needed a contact address to send legal notices
So you can’t share with us what they really asked you.
“my other banks and brokerages didn't ask for all that”.
Not yet
Anyway, I’m hoping all will be alright soon.
The way you’re describing, Seems like you got 100 people who are idiots and you’re the genius?? Figure it out if you don’t wanna listen to everyone trying to help
I don't have time to call or deal with their stupid voice bot. Hence, I'm looking for creative ways to get money out of there via option trading without dealing with humans.
CS is simply needed more info. Same problem here. They wanted updated financial info. It simply took a call to the CSR and he got what they needed and my transfer worked the next day.
They want some documents. I don't have time for that bullshit. I don't want to be their customer anymore, I wired money in and I want the money back out and into my other account. They don't need anything else.
It says they need to speak with you. Why are you posting on Reddit about it instead of just calling them?
They need to verify your identity. That's it. If you'd made that phone call before the IPO you probably would have gotten shares and made some money.
I don't have time for that during business hours + their bot is annoying and they don't pay me for my time. They also have my identity already, they don't need more documents. I already gave them enough KYC crap for the IPO (driver's license, SSN, blah) and now they're asking for a goddamn utility bill. F them.
From your comments in this thread I can certainly guess how your end of those conversations went. I'm sure that didn't help you.
Keep shooting yourself in the foot though. You missed your share allocation and now your wasting a bunch more of your time doing this the hard way. Life will get easier if you grow up a little.
I mostly just want to shove it to them that I can get my money out of there without a goddamn utility bill and show to "wire" out money without relying on the stupid banking UI. This is the 2nd time they want something and I don't want to drag this to 3rd or 4th time. They have enough KYC data to satisfy their legal requirements and don't need to poke into more of my life just to get my money back.
You do realize what it's going to look like when you try to avoid money laundering safeguards they put in place? Do you want to be reported to the US Government for this? Because that's what their procedure is telling them to do if you try to pull that crap.
And you will be on their radar for the rest of your life. Like those innocent people that get put on Do Not Fly list by mistake. Read their stories and decide if making this stand is worth appearing on suspected money laundering activity list for the rest of your life.
E*Trade requires a picture of your social security card. I just calle them about this. It has little or nothing to do with your new account. I’ve had mine open for about two years without withdrawing bc it’s where my RSUs go, and finally called them and they need a phot of my social security card.
if etrade would let you move money out after a few days of depositing them, etrade could become a fraud target.
after moving money out you could recall the original deposit from the sending bank, and etrade would be on a loss.
i bet they will keep your money until the window for recalling deposits expires. then you can take money out. every institution does it.
try doing the same with a bank you have no relation with yet.
similar to “i sent you a check by mistake, can you write me a check back to return the funds” type of fraud.
better strategy -- write naked call on my other brokerage
buy call at etrade
if both expire worthless, money is transferred
i have the options levels at both brokerages needed for both
My Etrade locked up with 45k and I sent docs in and it’s been a month since they’ve had an answer am I able to asset transfer it all over to a different brokerage while it’s restricted on E*trades end ?
>Now I hate E-Trade (especially for all that trouble and no shares) Why? You do know the Reddit IPO was ~5 times oversubscribed, right? If an IPO is oversubscribed, your chances of being allocated shares is negatively impacted. It would be the same way with virtually every other broker. This isn’t limited to just E-Trade. Retail investors only got allocated a measly 8% of the shares listed. Between the shares issued by the company and existing investors selling their stake, that’s 22 million shares offered. 8% of that is 1.76 million shares. That’s not a big amount when you take into consideration the number of brokers out there that offered their clients the opportunity to participate in the Reddit IPO, and the number of clients at each brokerage firm that likely opted into the IPO. >How else can I transfer money out? Can I sell a naked call option on E-Trade, hoping to get assigned, and buy the same option with my other brokerage at the same time, forcing me to buy the stock and deliver it? No, that’s not how that works. At all. You cannot transact with yourself. Figure out what E-Trade needs from you to resolve your account issue, then transfer the money out, and take it as a lesson to pay more attention to high-profile IPOs like this before blindly diving in, lest you lose your shirt next time.
- I didn't lose any shirts. I signed up for ~0.5% of my net worth. I still have the cash, as long as E-Trade lets me get it out. I hate them and dont want to use them in the future unless they prioritize my allocation next time as compensation for what happened - Why cant I transact with myself? Is it a legal restriction? Ar itrage people do it all the time, I thought? - I expected if it is 5x oversubscribed that they give me 1/5 of what I signed up for. And learn to not oversubscribe next time. This is the same bullshit airlines pull off and at leash you get compensated
You are really confused with how things work
>unless they prioritize my allocation next time as compensation for what happened E-Trade doesn’t owe you anything. So what? You didn’t get any shares of RDDT at IPO. There are hundreds of thousands of investors just like you who bid for IPO shares of RDDT and also came up empty handed. Arbitrage isn’t transacting with yourself. Arbitrage is buying an asset and then exploiting price differences for the same asset in a different market to make a profit. Also, it’s not that transacting with yourself isn’t illegal, it’s that it’s impossible. You don’t know who you are transacting with in the open market when you buy/sell any security or derivative. >I expected if it is 5x oversubscribed that they give me 1/5 of what I signed up for. And learn to not oversubscribe next time. This is the same bullshit airlines pull off and at leash you get compensated. If an IPO is oversubscribed by a certain factor (such as 5x oversubscribed in Reddit’s case) that means there is demand for 5x as many shares as what is being offered. In total, there were only 22 million shares of Reddit offered at IPO from a combination of earlier investors cashing out and the company selling new shares, but there was demand for 110 million shares from market participants. Even with the greenshoe option, which allows the underwriting syndicate to sell an extra 15% more stock, that still doesn’t come close to meeting the demand for Reddit stock. 15% of 22 million is an extra 3.3 million shares, but those shares would be allocated to clients of the firms that participated in the underwriting of Reddit’s IPO, namely Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs and BofA Securities. Also, comparing airlines overbooking flights to an oversubscribed IPO is an ineffective comparison for all intents and purposes. Airlines overbook flights because they have millions upon millions of different data points that give them insight into how many people will statistically show up for any one flight, and occasionally everyone who books a flight actually shows up, but more often than not that is the exception rather than the expectation, so airlines still need to maximize revenue. The same metrics cannot be used to determine how popular an IPO is going to be.
>E-Trade doesn’t owe you anything. Sure, but I don't owe it to them to be their customer anymore. I have the right to a grudge and to wiring my money back out to my other brokerage. >Arbitrage isn’t transacting with yourself. Arbitrage is buying an asset and then exploiting price differences for the same asset in a different market to make a profit Yes, and arbitrage folks do that by buying on one exchange and selling on the other exchange at the exact same time, selling short if necessary, without transferring the asset over. Transferring the asset imparts significant time risk. >Also, it’s not that transacting with yourself isn’t illegal, it’s that it’s impossible. You don’t know who you are transacting with in the open market when you buy/sell any security or derivative. I don't think you understand. You don't need to know who you are transacting with. As long as you're going after an asset with sufficient liquidity it doesn't matter if you transact with 50 middlemen on the market before you get to your transaction on the other exchange. If you sell (write) an option on one exchange, you get instant income and take on a certain amount of financial risk. If you buy the exact same income on another brokerage you pay the premium (exactly equal to that instant income you got on the other exahange) plus get the negative of that financial risk (i.e. profit). If both options expire worthless, you will have a loss on one brokerage and a profit on the other brokerage that are exactly opposite, which is functionally equivalent to a money transfer. It doesn't matter how many people on the market are in-between the two exact contracts being dealt with. And if both options expire in the money, you don't lose any money, you just accidentally did a money transfer in the wrong direction.
You absolutely do have that right, it won't change anything and if you participate in an IPO at that brokerage there is a good chance it will happen again.
What a shill ass account. Etrade owes this man his money back. Anything beyond that is ridiculous. They took it without issue. They can give it back without issue.
Nowhere in my comment was I defending E-Trade. Don’t know where you got that inane idea. OP neglected to do even the most basic of research about the Reddit IPO, and had the audacity to act like he had been defrauded and deserving of compensation when he was not allocated any shares. 5 minutes of Googling would’ve told him that the Reddit IPO was heavily oversubscribed, and that so little of the total shares offered in the Reddit IPO were set aside for users. (1.76 million out of 22 million shares, 8% of the offering.) I also advised OP to figure out what it was that E-Trade needed from him so that he *could* withdraw his money from E-Trade back to his brokerage. I imagine that OP has since figured out what E-Trade needed, has provided it to them, and thus been able to withdraw his funds.
Trading with yourself is illegal. I don’t think you understand how anything in the market works at all.
Usually with something like this, customer support is needing additional documentation. Call etrade before/after busy hours. (available 24/7)
So you weren't a previous customer, opened an account, transferred money in, the ~ 1 week later want to transfer the money out and most likely close the account.... If you were to look at this as an outsider, does that not sound fishy to you? It doesn't just scream fraud/money laundering/scam?
What is money laundering about this? Opened a new account and didnt like it. It is my money, they can't withhold it from me, this isn't some CD
They didnt just steal it from you. They have an obligation as a financial institution to investigate suspicious activity. To me, this whole thing is textbook money laundering. Not saying you are, just saying that what happened is reason enough for them to be suspicious and review the situation more. The best option is to just call Etrade to get this sorted out. If you hate them that much, go to your bank you transferred this money from and ask them to recall the money from etrade. Not sure if they will be able to recall or not, especially if Etrade has it restricted right now, but its something you could try. Here's why Im saying it smells like money laundering: Step 1 - have dirty money Step 2 - open etrade account and transfer money there Step 3 - Leave money there for couple days then transfer money out Step 4 - money is now "clean" and looks like it came from Etrade instead of where ever it was before Step 1
Nothing triggers a fraud freeze faster than transferring funds into a new account and then trying to withdraw a short time later.
So I flipped my shares. How long should I wait to withdraw
They want talk to you. Why didn’t you call them?
I talked to them twice and the restriction is still there after 2 weeks. I dont have time for coffee chats with their customer service. Option arbitrage would be a faster way to get my money out without those idiots
What did they tell you ? What are the questions they asked you?
they want to know where i sleep, they want to know how much electricity i use. i'm fed up and moving my money out rather than this scam. my other banks and brokerages didn't ask for all that, they just needed a contact address to send legal notices
So you can’t share with us what they really asked you. “my other banks and brokerages didn't ask for all that”. Not yet Anyway, I’m hoping all will be alright soon.
It honestly sounds like you are trying to do something shady.
The way you’re describing, Seems like you got 100 people who are idiots and you’re the genius?? Figure it out if you don’t wanna listen to everyone trying to help
You have to call
I don't have time to call or deal with their stupid voice bot. Hence, I'm looking for creative ways to get money out of there via option trading without dealing with humans.
You have to call and sit on the phone for probably 90 minutes
I mean, will they pay me at my hourly rate?
I'm sure they could afford $20
CS is simply needed more info. Same problem here. They wanted updated financial info. It simply took a call to the CSR and he got what they needed and my transfer worked the next day.
What did they tell you when you called them, which it clearly says to do?
They want some documents. I don't have time for that bullshit. I don't want to be their customer anymore, I wired money in and I want the money back out and into my other account. They don't need anything else.
It says they need to speak with you. Why are you posting on Reddit about it instead of just calling them? They need to verify your identity. That's it. If you'd made that phone call before the IPO you probably would have gotten shares and made some money.
I don't have time for that during business hours + their bot is annoying and they don't pay me for my time. They also have my identity already, they don't need more documents. I already gave them enough KYC crap for the IPO (driver's license, SSN, blah) and now they're asking for a goddamn utility bill. F them.
From your comments in this thread I can certainly guess how your end of those conversations went. I'm sure that didn't help you. Keep shooting yourself in the foot though. You missed your share allocation and now your wasting a bunch more of your time doing this the hard way. Life will get easier if you grow up a little.
I mostly just want to shove it to them that I can get my money out of there without a goddamn utility bill and show to "wire" out money without relying on the stupid banking UI. This is the 2nd time they want something and I don't want to drag this to 3rd or 4th time. They have enough KYC data to satisfy their legal requirements and don't need to poke into more of my life just to get my money back.
Way to go. You are really sticking it to them.
You do realize what it's going to look like when you try to avoid money laundering safeguards they put in place? Do you want to be reported to the US Government for this? Because that's what their procedure is telling them to do if you try to pull that crap.
the US govt will spend $50k on their investigations and find out that i didnt launder any money. they can waste their time
And you will be on their radar for the rest of your life. Like those innocent people that get put on Do Not Fly list by mistake. Read their stories and decide if making this stand is worth appearing on suspected money laundering activity list for the rest of your life.
OP has no time to make a call (even though he could do work if he was on hold) but has time to make countless posts on Reddit. Got it.
I can post on reddit asynchronously during code compiles and while in meetings. Can't do synchronous.
E*Trade requires a picture of your social security card. I just calle them about this. It has little or nothing to do with your new account. I’ve had mine open for about two years without withdrawing bc it’s where my RSUs go, and finally called them and they need a phot of my social security card.
if etrade would let you move money out after a few days of depositing them, etrade could become a fraud target. after moving money out you could recall the original deposit from the sending bank, and etrade would be on a loss. i bet they will keep your money until the window for recalling deposits expires. then you can take money out. every institution does it. try doing the same with a bank you have no relation with yet. similar to “i sent you a check by mistake, can you write me a check back to return the funds” type of fraud.
you’re a new customer to them, who cannot even withdraw money. good luck getting approved for naked call writing lol
they actually did approve me for it haha
naked call writing? what options level do you have at etrade?
better strategy -- write naked call on my other brokerage buy call at etrade if both expire worthless, money is transferred i have the options levels at both brokerages needed for both
My Etrade locked up with 45k and I sent docs in and it’s been a month since they’ve had an answer am I able to asset transfer it all over to a different brokerage while it’s restricted on E*trades end ?
This happens over and over again with these guys. It's terrible!!
They don’t share the whole story.