If I'm in s2 and my partner calls it, I will always lead trump if it hasn't been lead yet. If it's already been lead once, I'll throw a green card out to give my partner a chance to take it and I can then use any remaining trump I have to take the next trick.
If my partner calls, I’m leading trump, unless they called as a stuck dealer, in which case I’ll lead an opposite colour ace, or try to get myself double suited.
Love doing this in person because everyone looks at you like you’re insane.
I usually keep it pretty limited though. Second seat ordering A or K and I have at LEAST an ace, preferably another ace or second trump too.
Not sure what criteria others use for this.
Basically, if you think you can try to get three tricks, this is often how you want to play it. Not always, but often. Just play the hand like you’re on offense.
Especially at mid-high levels and up when people will call two-suited with zero bowers. I find that many times my partner and I are holding each of the bowers. The person who calls it up ~~usually~~ always plays those hands noticeably weak.
Those aren’t the hands I’m usually looking for, just because they’re so much more dependent on catching lucky breaks to get a euchre. Like if the suit the guy ordered gets led twice early in the hand or something like that, you can get lucky. But the hands where somebody calls with the right and 1 are very vulnerable to an early trump lead.
The biggest exception is probably if your partner was forced to make a "screw the dealer" call. Tread carefully here. It's going to be their best option, but they could still be VERY thin. It's not always wrong here either - be careful yes, but it also depends on your holding and how you plan to help.
I honestly am not too sure about other specific exceptions. It's going to be hand based and possibly based on your reads on opponents/partner. In order to do this, you need a SPECIFIC reason that is more important than pulling opponents trump...which is already VERY important.
Not sure exactly what you’re asking in the OP, but almost all the time, if my partner calls/orders and I pick up a trick and trump has not been led yet, I will lead trump if I can. It’s not quite 100%, but probably 95% or more
By "leading trump back" here, you mean if trump hasn't yet been led at all, right? Like you called trump and your partner took the first trick? In general if I called it I want my partner to lead/clear trump in that situation. I'm sure there are exceptions/scenarios where you wouldn't, but as a rule.
I am currently trying to dig myself out of the 1600 swamp, and you wouldn’t believe the number of people who call, have both bowers, and screw around with their off-suits first.
If you have Right/Left, I don’t really need to be taking tricks with trump, I want to do it with high off-suits in the later tricks, so pulling straggler trump out of the opponents is important.
As soon as my partner calls trump, my mind goes to “how can we get 5?”
Having an ace trumped on the first trick doesn’t get you 5.
If you *only* have the bowers, then at least lead one, see how the cards fall, then decide to throw off in the second trick.
Your off-suits only get stronger after a round of trump clearing.
The problem is, your partner doesn't know when you have that weak of a hand, so you want them playing for the more likely hand. That does lead to getting euchred at times, but it happens. Some days it feels like that's every hand you get. That doesn't mean it's a bad strategy.
It could go bad, but not as bad as the strategy of “Don’t lead trump and hope that I get to cut in without the other team trumping in somehow.” Clear a round that you’re guaranteed to take with your J, promote a card from a doubleton (if you have one), hopefully you can trump in with 9 and now other half of doubleton is good.
You might get set! But that’s the nature of this call.
Hmmm
I "always" lead the opposite color of trump.
I figure that Next (the suit that is the same color as trump) has one less card in it (because the Jack becomes the Left).
So the other suits are probably distributed across the players better, so people can follow suit. I'd rather take the chance that my partner or I can win it with the off suits.
If I'm the first to lead (next to dealer) I try not to lead aces right away. They just seem to get cut (trumped in on) a lot.
Generally it is better to lead back at your partner. Some notable exceptions:
1. S1R2Next calls and you are in S3. Unless you have a strong hand (Playing for March), assume your partner is weak. This is the counter example to - if my partner leads trumps at me they would want me to lead them back.
2. If my partner had the opportunity to lead a trump, didn't and I think we are only playing for 1 point. If you have a strong hand (Aces/Double Trump etc.) then there is no problem leading it back at your partner even if they didn't. Especially if you have one of the bowers.
3. There are a bunch of hands where you are on 9 and playing for 1 point where leading a trump is not ideal.
If I call thin, win a hand, then punt… don’t lead back at me. Pay attention and guess my voids. Maybe your offsuit Q or K draws out a trump I need removed or I overtrump it.
Tldr: pay attention to the communication.
If your partner calls you should lead Trump unless you know that only you and your partner could have Trump or if your partner was in seat one and they didn't lead Trump. If they don't lead Trump when given the option, they probably have a good reason not to.
Lots of great responses, I wasn’t expecting everyone to disagree with me on this, so I’ll have to change my gameplay. I haven’t been winning many games lately and it sounds like this is why.
The way I’ve been playing lately in s2 is calling a lot with JK or something similar, letting the first trick pass, hopefully taken by my p. If so, letting 3rd get the second trick and then trumping in with my K and then Leading J for the win. Sorry if this is a convoluted post, but this is the strategy that gets messed up by leading trump to s2 if someone has a guarded left or ace. I may be wrong and if so I would like to here the alternative strats.
Great that you’re willing to learn and change! That’s how good players get good. Definitely it’s not generally making the best use of your Right if you save it for the last trick.
If I'm in s2 and my partner calls it, I will always lead trump if it hasn't been lead yet. If it's already been lead once, I'll throw a green card out to give my partner a chance to take it and I can then use any remaining trump I have to take the next trick.
YOU GOT GREEN CARDS IN YOUR DECK?!
Lol
I know i have a deck with orange and blue cards. I bet i have green cards somewhere. lol
Clubs are green in lots of poker decks
If my partner calls, I’m leading trump, unless they called as a stuck dealer, in which case I’ll lead an opposite colour ace, or try to get myself double suited.
No data to back this up, but i think failure to lead trump on offense probably leads to getting set more than any other play.
And failing to lead it often enough on defense leads to missing out on a lot of good opportunities to set the other team
Love doing this in person because everyone looks at you like you’re insane. I usually keep it pretty limited though. Second seat ordering A or K and I have at LEAST an ace, preferably another ace or second trump too. Not sure what criteria others use for this.
I’ve been doing it more and more against the dealer ordering up lately. And with a fair amount of success.
Basically, if you think you can try to get three tricks, this is often how you want to play it. Not always, but often. Just play the hand like you’re on offense.
I need to start trying this. I’ve had it used against me successfully and I’ve been all “wtf just happened” as I get euchred
Especially at mid-high levels and up when people will call two-suited with zero bowers. I find that many times my partner and I are holding each of the bowers. The person who calls it up ~~usually~~ always plays those hands noticeably weak.
Those aren’t the hands I’m usually looking for, just because they’re so much more dependent on catching lucky breaks to get a euchre. Like if the suit the guy ordered gets led twice early in the hand or something like that, you can get lucky. But the hands where somebody calls with the right and 1 are very vulnerable to an early trump lead.
Yeah it's brutal. Lead trump
Good to know!! What would be the exceptions in your opinion?
The biggest exception is probably if your partner was forced to make a "screw the dealer" call. Tread carefully here. It's going to be their best option, but they could still be VERY thin. It's not always wrong here either - be careful yes, but it also depends on your holding and how you plan to help. I honestly am not too sure about other specific exceptions. It's going to be hand based and possibly based on your reads on opponents/partner. In order to do this, you need a SPECIFIC reason that is more important than pulling opponents trump...which is already VERY important.
Not sure exactly what you’re asking in the OP, but almost all the time, if my partner calls/orders and I pick up a trick and trump has not been led yet, I will lead trump if I can. It’s not quite 100%, but probably 95% or more
Just curious what this does to a J9 call (assuming you aren’t leading the left)
It’s pretty good on the whole. If one opponent has concentrated trump and other good cards, you might get euchred. But you might anyway.
Good to know! I’m new to the higher strategy stuff and tend to get into my own head a little bit
By "leading trump back" here, you mean if trump hasn't yet been led at all, right? Like you called trump and your partner took the first trick? In general if I called it I want my partner to lead/clear trump in that situation. I'm sure there are exceptions/scenarios where you wouldn't, but as a rule.
yeah the exception is ; if I call it and I got the chance to lead trumps and I didn’t? do NOT lead trumps ! super thin call usually.
I am currently trying to dig myself out of the 1600 swamp, and you wouldn’t believe the number of people who call, have both bowers, and screw around with their off-suits first.
mind boggling 🧐🙃
Doesn’t that increase your chance of your partner taking a trick?
If you have Right/Left, I don’t really need to be taking tricks with trump, I want to do it with high off-suits in the later tricks, so pulling straggler trump out of the opponents is important. As soon as my partner calls trump, my mind goes to “how can we get 5?” Having an ace trumped on the first trick doesn’t get you 5. If you *only* have the bowers, then at least lead one, see how the cards fall, then decide to throw off in the second trick. Your off-suits only get stronger after a round of trump clearing.
This is the kind of thing I figured
What kinds of hands do you call in s2 where your partner takes a trick and you don’t want them to lead trump?
J9 hands specifically
The problem is, your partner doesn't know when you have that weak of a hand, so you want them playing for the more likely hand. That does lead to getting euchred at times, but it happens. Some days it feels like that's every hand you get. That doesn't mean it's a bad strategy.
Why wouldn’t you want your partner to lead into your J? Are you hoping to ruff with it?
It could go bad, but not as bad as the strategy of “Don’t lead trump and hope that I get to cut in without the other team trumping in somehow.” Clear a round that you’re guaranteed to take with your J, promote a card from a doubleton (if you have one), hopefully you can trump in with 9 and now other half of doubleton is good. You might get set! But that’s the nature of this call.
Hmmm I "always" lead the opposite color of trump. I figure that Next (the suit that is the same color as trump) has one less card in it (because the Jack becomes the Left). So the other suits are probably distributed across the players better, so people can follow suit. I'd rather take the chance that my partner or I can win it with the off suits. If I'm the first to lead (next to dealer) I try not to lead aces right away. They just seem to get cut (trumped in on) a lot.
True, and when I call in 3rd seat I’m counting on p to lead trump
100%
Generally it is better to lead back at your partner. Some notable exceptions: 1. S1R2Next calls and you are in S3. Unless you have a strong hand (Playing for March), assume your partner is weak. This is the counter example to - if my partner leads trumps at me they would want me to lead them back. 2. If my partner had the opportunity to lead a trump, didn't and I think we are only playing for 1 point. If you have a strong hand (Aces/Double Trump etc.) then there is no problem leading it back at your partner even if they didn't. Especially if you have one of the bowers. 3. There are a bunch of hands where you are on 9 and playing for 1 point where leading a trump is not ideal.
If I call thin, win a hand, then punt… don’t lead back at me. Pay attention and guess my voids. Maybe your offsuit Q or K draws out a trump I need removed or I overtrump it. Tldr: pay attention to the communication.
If your partner calls you should lead Trump unless you know that only you and your partner could have Trump or if your partner was in seat one and they didn't lead Trump. If they don't lead Trump when given the option, they probably have a good reason not to.
Lots of great responses, I wasn’t expecting everyone to disagree with me on this, so I’ll have to change my gameplay. I haven’t been winning many games lately and it sounds like this is why. The way I’ve been playing lately in s2 is calling a lot with JK or something similar, letting the first trick pass, hopefully taken by my p. If so, letting 3rd get the second trick and then trumping in with my K and then Leading J for the win. Sorry if this is a convoluted post, but this is the strategy that gets messed up by leading trump to s2 if someone has a guarded left or ace. I may be wrong and if so I would like to here the alternative strats.
Great that you’re willing to learn and change! That’s how good players get good. Definitely it’s not generally making the best use of your Right if you save it for the last trick.
I call thin. It sucks
Meaning a lead back after I’ve already led Trump. That’s how I read the question