I think there's a fundamental difference in attitude between the two though. "Destiny is all" leans much more into this attitude of "my destiny is great and it is my honour to follow it to the end!". The original line is a lot more like "fate is unavoidable, and it will happen to you whether you like it or not". This fits a lot more with his book characterisation, where he will repeatedly call fate a treacherous bitch and generally call the gods a bunch of assholes. I personally think that's a much more interesting perspective than the rather generic heroism of "destiny is all"
I think something set from 410AD, describing the Romans and the Romano-Britons as the Romans left England would be cool. It could then describe the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes in their contemporary setting in Germany/ Denmark and show their migration to Britain, starting with Hengist and Horsa all the way up until vikings attacked Lindisfarne in 789 AD.
Like a prequel to the Viking invasions.
They are actually making this. Adaption of Bernard Cornwells Arthur saga set just after Rome left and when the saxons invades the Britons. "The Winter King", premieres in august.
At least it's different people than the ones that worked on the last Kingdom, so there is some hope that it'll stay true to the books, but I'm not holding my breath
I really don't care all that much about that. Out of any character it would make the most sense for Merlin to not be white. Dude's travelled far and wide and seems to possess a lot of knowledge about for example the Romans that no one else in Britain has. Regardless of arguments about inclusivity (which are frankly perfectly valid) there is not much of a reason why he shouldn't be black. Frankly the costuming has me much more concerned, because it looks like this show is gonna be another "men with no sense of personal hygiene and suspiciously modern haircuts running around in weird leather vests" kind of deal.
There is actually a badass black character in the books though, a former member of the roman legion. Which makes it weird that they cast the highest member of the celtic druids as black. But yeah, costumes etc are more worrying.
I know about Sagramor. I just dont think having a few other black characters is all that big of a deal, or that the show needs to strictly adhere to the ethnic makeup of the books. I'm more concerned if the actor is gonna be able to pull of the switching between crazy, grumpy old crackhead, terrifying, authoritative wizard and kind father/mentor figure that defines Merlin all that well. I'm sure the guy is a competent actor, but they seem to be playing him straight in the trailer.
Uthred son of Uthred, Grandson of Uthred, cousin of Uthred, father of Uthred, brother of Uthred, uncle of Uthred, descendent of Uthred, Twin of Uthred, destiny is all !
Sort of I guess. Aethalstan wasn’t English by blood. When the Roman’s left Britain the populace needed safety and security. They turned to the Saxons. The Saxons then realized how weak the lands were and took control of the British isles. Aethelstan is a product of that event.
He was very much English by blood! English as a term coming from the Angles who came along with the Saxon. Not Briton by blood, but I'd be surprised if he was pure Saxon as he was born several centuries after the first raiders/mercenaries arrived
Yea, who were also Germans by blood. I would be surprised if they intermingled with locals going off prior and post history of the leadership of isles. The nobility of the English after the Saxons were French, starting with William. Everything from record of the time period was recorded in French. The nobles spoke French, most of them not even knowing any of the native language. Really Franglais if we get nit picky but this lasted till 1362.
Bro, there were no "Germans" at that time. There were Germanic tribes, that's it. Perhaps you should think less about this "pure blood" thing and open a bloody book instead.
> Yea, who were also Germans by blood.
Are you seriously arguing for the term "English" being used improperly and somewhat anachronistically here, while at the same time calling people from that time "Germans"?
>Aethalstan wasn’t English by blood.
You're right, but not for the reasons you are thinking of.
The term 'English' comes from the Angles. One of the Germanic tribes that settled Britain in the post Roman years. However, Æthelstan wasn't an Angle, he was a West Saxon.
He, and his grandfather Ælfraed, decided to push this new concept of the Saxons and Angles being the same people so that they could market their rule to the Angles of the north and east. They flattered the Angles by naming this new identity after them so that they might more readily accept West Saxon dominance.
Come off it, the Saxons, Angles and Jutes arrived centuries before this event. They arrived with a completely different culture from top to bottom - religion, how a king was selected, economic system, and so many more things.
Æthelstans England was not the same as Cerdics Wessex.
The Saxons were not necessarily just invaders/conquerors though - they become the dominant culture but it wasn't through violence alone. I wouldn't call the acculturation a singular event, more of a process.
I said he was a result of those events. The Angles, Jutes and Saxons started to arrive 5th/6th century as “protection” for the locals from the Scots/Irish raiders.
You misunderstand the concept of Englishness. There was no England before, or at the time of the Saxon arrival. It took centuries of change to arrive there - and the people and descendents of the people who migrated are a big part of this. The formation of England only really becomes a thing during the dying days of the Heptarchy and against a backdrop of Norse/Danish invasion and settlement.
The arrival of the Germanic peoples is much more complex than you portray it too. Yes, there were mercenaries, but the migration is much more complicated and fuzzy. The collapse of the Roman empire created more problems than creating raiding opportunities - the entire economic system collapsed. It took centuries to move back to a monied economy.
The acculturation took time and involved a lot more than violence - the Saxons filled the post-Rome vacuum with pitchforks, plows and 'functional' governance as much as they did with spears (arguably more so).
Any one read about the Battle of Brunanburh? The English beat a combined army of Britons (celts), Scots, Irish and Vikings to confirm their position as the rulers of Britain. The poem is pretty badass ( [Link)](https://www.telelib.com/authors/T/TennysonAlfred/verse/ballads/brunanburh.html)
I would say France was also France with Charlemagne, though i suppose that's debatable.
But Denmark was certainly Denmark before then.
And Italy and Greece go further back still.
Italy and Greece as polities only date back to the 19th century. They're younger by almost a thousand years.
Italian unification was in 1861 and Greek independence was in 1830.
Good question. I think you might be right.
I think the Vatican is a contender, the Papal States going back to 754. Bit of an unusual case though, that one.
I've found out San Marino got their independence from Rome in 301, so they're the oldest. I do recall hearing that Napoleon asked the ruling Prince of San Marino whether it was true that he was a descendant of Augustus Ceasar, and the Prince confirming it. Though that may just be a story.
While its true that Æthelstan was crowned King of the the English peoples, earlier Kings, like Penda, Offa, and Alfred, were calling themselves "Rex Angolorum" in charters, as they either had direct power over smaller English kingdoms, or were allied to them via marriage.
Offa.
" Some of his charters use the title "Rex Anglorum," or "King of the English," and this has been seen as a sweeping statement of his power."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offa_of_MMercia
Its a halo. The priest looking guy is Saint Cuthbert, monk and bishop. By the way, no offence but how are you in a subreddit about Europe but have never seen art with a halo in it? Its pretty ubiquitous
Obviously it's ok to not know things, especially if you're open to learn, but how can't you know what a halo is in ~~medievil~~ medieval depictions?
You never had art class?
>medievil
You never saw the word 'medieval'?
I mean, they were pretty evil times...
Give them a break, eh? Honest questions deserve an answer. People are pretty cultureless and uneducated these days.
English is not my native language and since "Medieval" is pronounced as you would pronounce "medievil" that's the way my brain made me spell it 🤷
And if I'm not wrong "medieval" was created with a negative meaning, so the "-evil" made even more sense to me 😅
It was a Republic based upon Puritan values, due to the agrarian period. The French & Russian Revolutions were based upon the Proletariat, rising up against their oppressors in a war of class. Hence why both Republics still exist & ours failed.
Last tried 350 years ago. I reckon it's about time to give it another shot. Cromwell's dead and we have more democratic traditions now, so it probably won't go pear-shaped. Would be depressing to think we're stuck with the royals.
I'm sorry, but the danelaw still existed in 927 occupying vast amount of English native territory. Now how in the hell can this be a "Unification/Birthday" of Britain. Factually Æthelstan was king of maybe 2/3 of the English...
By this point, the Danish lords had either been defeated by the Anglo-Saxons or had submitted to their rule. The Danish settlements were still there and still enjoyed some autonomy, but were part of the new country.
horrible gamer posture and still on his laptop.. dude on the right looks so done with Æthelstan
It more looks like porn enthusiast getting his laptop cleansed from all the sins.
"*Are you winning, Æthelstan?*"
Not without Uthred, the son of Uthred help!
Destiny is all!
Still annoyed that the show couldn't even get that quote right. Anyway, wyrd bið ful aræd. Fate is inexorable.
Too many big words for the average Netflix viewer.
Destiny is all has a better ring to it.
I think there's a fundamental difference in attitude between the two though. "Destiny is all" leans much more into this attitude of "my destiny is great and it is my honour to follow it to the end!". The original line is a lot more like "fate is unavoidable, and it will happen to you whether you like it or not". This fits a lot more with his book characterisation, where he will repeatedly call fate a treacherous bitch and generally call the gods a bunch of assholes. I personally think that's a much more interesting perspective than the rather generic heroism of "destiny is all"
Arseling
The Last Kingdom and the anime Vinland Saga got me craving for more Viking era England shows.
I think something set from 410AD, describing the Romans and the Romano-Britons as the Romans left England would be cool. It could then describe the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes in their contemporary setting in Germany/ Denmark and show their migration to Britain, starting with Hengist and Horsa all the way up until vikings attacked Lindisfarne in 789 AD. Like a prequel to the Viking invasions.
They are actually making this. Adaption of Bernard Cornwells Arthur saga set just after Rome left and when the saxons invades the Britons. "The Winter King", premieres in august.
This is great news! I hope they don't fuck it up....
At least it's different people than the ones that worked on the last Kingdom, so there is some hope that it'll stay true to the books, but I'm not holding my breath
Well Merlin is casted black it seems so it will at least have some debate around launch I guess.
I really don't care all that much about that. Out of any character it would make the most sense for Merlin to not be white. Dude's travelled far and wide and seems to possess a lot of knowledge about for example the Romans that no one else in Britain has. Regardless of arguments about inclusivity (which are frankly perfectly valid) there is not much of a reason why he shouldn't be black. Frankly the costuming has me much more concerned, because it looks like this show is gonna be another "men with no sense of personal hygiene and suspiciously modern haircuts running around in weird leather vests" kind of deal.
There is actually a badass black character in the books though, a former member of the roman legion. Which makes it weird that they cast the highest member of the celtic druids as black. But yeah, costumes etc are more worrying.
I know about Sagramor. I just dont think having a few other black characters is all that big of a deal, or that the show needs to strictly adhere to the ethnic makeup of the books. I'm more concerned if the actor is gonna be able to pull of the switching between crazy, grumpy old crackhead, terrifying, authoritative wizard and kind father/mentor figure that defines Merlin all that well. I'm sure the guy is a competent actor, but they seem to be playing him straight in the trailer.
I don't mind that, to be honest. I'm more concerned about the story line.
Honestly the Viking series and the spinoff Valhalla are quite good on the subject
My man Æthelstan. Good ol' stoney.
\- Who's that, then? \- I don't know. Must be a king. \- Why? \- He hasn't got shit all over him. Well I didn't vote for him.
Destiny is all!
Destiny is all!
Uthred son of Uthred, Grandson of Uthred, cousin of Uthred, father of Uthred, brother of Uthred, uncle of Uthred, descendent of Uthred, Twin of Uthred, destiny is all !
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Woad do you mean?
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It’s all good dude
Giv Danelagen tilbage til de danske!
I'm up for a rematch at Stamford.
That was us actually, but you can keep your offer. We've decided to reclaim by culture victory, starting with Orkney
>That was us actually All you Norse look the same to me.
Them's fighting words.
> Them's fighting words. Sånn ja! Jävla Britonska rassgat. Fanden æde mig.
All Norse words are fighting words.
More bridges and more berserkers!
Why are they blue?
Because he was also the first Smurf to be king
Because about 1000 years will likely add some discolouring?
They paid $8 per month.
Oh my god Karen, you can't just ask people why they're blue
Because if they were green they would die.
because they're royals lol didn't you hear the saying "niebieska krew"?
A nice English post for once 😊
Sort of I guess. Aethalstan wasn’t English by blood. When the Roman’s left Britain the populace needed safety and security. They turned to the Saxons. The Saxons then realized how weak the lands were and took control of the British isles. Aethelstan is a product of that event.
He was very much English by blood! English as a term coming from the Angles who came along with the Saxon. Not Briton by blood, but I'd be surprised if he was pure Saxon as he was born several centuries after the first raiders/mercenaries arrived
Yea, who were also Germans by blood. I would be surprised if they intermingled with locals going off prior and post history of the leadership of isles. The nobility of the English after the Saxons were French, starting with William. Everything from record of the time period was recorded in French. The nobles spoke French, most of them not even knowing any of the native language. Really Franglais if we get nit picky but this lasted till 1362.
Bro, there were no "Germans" at that time. There were Germanic tribes, that's it. Perhaps you should think less about this "pure blood" thing and open a bloody book instead.
> Yea, who were also Germans by blood. Are you seriously arguing for the term "English" being used improperly and somewhat anachronistically here, while at the same time calling people from that time "Germans"?
>Aethalstan wasn’t English by blood. You're right, but not for the reasons you are thinking of. The term 'English' comes from the Angles. One of the Germanic tribes that settled Britain in the post Roman years. However, Æthelstan wasn't an Angle, he was a West Saxon. He, and his grandfather Ælfraed, decided to push this new concept of the Saxons and Angles being the same people so that they could market their rule to the Angles of the north and east. They flattered the Angles by naming this new identity after them so that they might more readily accept West Saxon dominance.
Come off it, the Saxons, Angles and Jutes arrived centuries before this event. They arrived with a completely different culture from top to bottom - religion, how a king was selected, economic system, and so many more things. Æthelstans England was not the same as Cerdics Wessex. The Saxons were not necessarily just invaders/conquerors though - they become the dominant culture but it wasn't through violence alone. I wouldn't call the acculturation a singular event, more of a process.
I said he was a result of those events. The Angles, Jutes and Saxons started to arrive 5th/6th century as “protection” for the locals from the Scots/Irish raiders.
You misunderstand the concept of Englishness. There was no England before, or at the time of the Saxon arrival. It took centuries of change to arrive there - and the people and descendents of the people who migrated are a big part of this. The formation of England only really becomes a thing during the dying days of the Heptarchy and against a backdrop of Norse/Danish invasion and settlement. The arrival of the Germanic peoples is much more complex than you portray it too. Yes, there were mercenaries, but the migration is much more complicated and fuzzy. The collapse of the Roman empire created more problems than creating raiding opportunities - the entire economic system collapsed. It took centuries to move back to a monied economy. The acculturation took time and involved a lot more than violence - the Saxons filled the post-Rome vacuum with pitchforks, plows and 'functional' governance as much as they did with spears (arguably more so).
> Aethalstan wasn’t English Yeah, he obviously was Paraguayan.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
Æthelstan kept saying he was king of all the English people, till he was blue in the face.
OG Stan...
Athelstan he also ushered in the first English golden age. It was a very prosperous time for England.
I'd say St Alfred gave us a good golden age too
Any one read about the Battle of Brunanburh? The English beat a combined army of Britons (celts), Scots, Irish and Vikings to confirm their position as the rulers of Britain. The poem is pretty badass ( [Link)](https://www.telelib.com/authors/T/TennysonAlfred/verse/ballads/brunanburh.html)
England was England before France was France. European history is interesting.
I would say France was also France with Charlemagne, though i suppose that's debatable. But Denmark was certainly Denmark before then. And Italy and Greece go further back still.
Italy and Greece as polities only date back to the 19th century. They're younger by almost a thousand years. Italian unification was in 1861 and Greek independence was in 1830.
Hmm, but Italy was unified during the roman empire. Does that not count?
It's wasn't Italy though, not as we know it, it was the Roman Republic/Empire. Not the same thing.
Nope, just found out its San Marino. They got their independence from Rome in 301! That's awesome
I suppose so. Is Denmark the oldest european country then, or is there another that is older?
Good question. I think you might be right. I think the Vatican is a contender, the Papal States going back to 754. Bit of an unusual case though, that one.
I've found out San Marino got their independence from Rome in 301, so they're the oldest. I do recall hearing that Napoleon asked the ruling Prince of San Marino whether it was true that he was a descendant of Augustus Ceasar, and the Prince confirming it. Though that may just be a story.
Looks like he's just been given the English User Manual.
Bro had the plan.
He truly is the älteste of Anglish kings.
Bro got a Big Mac to celebrate.
So cool that parts of that crowning ceremony were still displayed with the coronation of King Charles. Looking straight in the 10th century!
Oh, that’s why aethl means noble in English, I always wondered about it , nice to know
He doesn't look happy
While its true that Æthelstan was crowned King of the the English peoples, earlier Kings, like Penda, Offa, and Alfred, were calling themselves "Rex Angolorum" in charters, as they either had direct power over smaller English kingdoms, or were allied to them via marriage. Offa. " Some of his charters use the title "Rex Anglorum," or "King of the English," and this has been seen as a sweeping statement of his power." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offa_of_MMercia
Right so he was the first king of all English peoples, thanks for clarifying what I already said
I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was giving supplemental information.
hægl!
Huh, I thought they were an autonomous collective.
Why does the guy looking like a priest have a circle around his head?
Its a halo. The priest looking guy is Saint Cuthbert, monk and bishop. By the way, no offence but how are you in a subreddit about Europe but have never seen art with a halo in it? Its pretty ubiquitous
The halo is painted because Saint Cuthbert was a saint, and he had been dead for about 300 years when Æthelsten lived.
Ancient scuba diving
Fashion at that times was pretty wild
Thanks for asking the question I was too embarrassed to ask
Obviously it's ok to not know things, especially if you're open to learn, but how can't you know what a halo is in ~~medievil~~ medieval depictions? You never had art class?
>medievil You never saw the word 'medieval'? I mean, they were pretty evil times... Give them a break, eh? Honest questions deserve an answer. People are pretty cultureless and uneducated these days.
English is not my native language and since "Medieval" is pronounced as you would pronounce "medievil" that's the way my brain made me spell it 🤷 And if I'm not wrong "medieval" was created with a negative meaning, so the "-evil" made even more sense to me 😅
Medieval comes from "medi" "aeval" (or something like that), latin for middle ages
I don't know what caption to use yet, but this image would make a great meme for something.
Near 1100 years later & still being ruled by a monarchy. Republic now😡
Nah fuck off. Æthelstan forever.
We tried that it didn’t go so well. So that clearly means we must become a theocratic state to take another one off our todo list
It was a Republic based upon Puritan values, due to the agrarian period. The French & Russian Revolutions were based upon the Proletariat, rising up against their oppressors in a war of class. Hence why both Republics still exist & ours failed.
Last tried 350 years ago. I reckon it's about time to give it another shot. Cromwell's dead and we have more democratic traditions now, so it probably won't go pear-shaped. Would be depressing to think we're stuck with the royals.
I'm sorry, but the danelaw still existed in 927 occupying vast amount of English native territory. Now how in the hell can this be a "Unification/Birthday" of Britain. Factually Æthelstan was king of maybe 2/3 of the English...
By this point, the Danish lords had either been defeated by the Anglo-Saxons or had submitted to their rule. The Danish settlements were still there and still enjoyed some autonomy, but were part of the new country.
In the same way that 4th July could have significance to somebody in a territory that was not part of the 13 colonies in 1776?
And thus the demon king was born
cringe cringe cringe
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Who doesn’t? The geographically illiterate? Those who are stupid enough to think that the existence of a political union supersedes geography?
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Yes? What else would it be, america?
…Yes?
Yeah it is.
Yeah, and so is Norway and the Faroe Islands?
Marcus Roberus got those guys with one of his glitter bombs?
Yep! Big supporter!
And he was paying security to the Peaky Blinders
I wonder if we would be speaking Anglo-Saxon English right now if the Normans had invaded the island.
And so the pantomime begins and still g going