Often those in complete control like Putin or Stalin are in a weird paradox of being extremely stable, in control and confident...while at the same time being one wrong step from complete collapse, fearing even the slightest hint of opposition and extremely paranoid
They are simultaneously unreachable, powerful and unbeatable while also being very fragile and weak if that makes sense
It's always the same with these strongman types. They act like they are the manliest people on the planet and other men admire them for their "strength", but they can't even handle the tiniest but of criticism without throwing a huge tantrum. They are the biggest snowflakes you can imagine.
Actually building on that... figure out how to make a martyr of Navalny, and like the 3 ghosts of Christmas, taunt and haunt Putin until he makes a mistake...
Yeltsin actually tried to democratize and modernize Russia and it's economy, he wanted Russia to be a modern European country. But then he appointed Putin, and a few years later Yeltsin realized his mistake.
But when people protest against the government or tear down Soviet and pro-government memorials I’m sure the police will swoop in and deal with that straight away.
Russia once again proving to be an authoritarian state.
They brought police in civilian clothes because photographs of police breaking the memorial would look too negative. Classic putinism: lies and cruelty.
I think they're right on the Chilean part, but are wrong on the timeline. What's going to happen now is Putin will get even more brazen with his attacks on internal opposition and we're going to go from "fell out of a window" and other thinly veiled facades into full blown broad daylight helicopter rides.
I doubt that's going to happen. Russia has been doing this shit literally for hundreds of years, the population doesn't care.
Poot will die eventually, and then he'll be replaced by an equally deranged psycho because russian people always vote for the biggest bully.
That is not really a memorial to Navalny. It is a monument to the victims of political repression in Russia.
[Solovetsky Stone ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solovetsky_Stone)
It's not even for Navalny. It's been there since 1990 to honor the victims of political repression in Soviet Union. Navalny was just yet another victim of the regime...
I can detect the europeans that did not witness a totalitarian regime by the naivety of their words. In a totalitarian regime the police protects the dictator and do his bidding.
It's even scarier when you realize that there are people outside of Russia who support Pootin, eventhough they have access to free media which isn't controlled by the government.
They have suddenly gone active today. Look for accounts that have registered recently and have been doing random posts like cars and travel, and then suddenly becomes interested in Russia or Ukraine.
They're spamming Navalny posts on YouTube and Twitter with "wHaT aBoUt GoNzAlO LiRa???"
GL was a creepy incel "dating coach" who (like more than a few others, gee I wonder why paedos, groomers, and creepy incels flock towards the Kremlin?) suddenly decided itd be a good idea to parrot pro-Russian disinformation and propaganda about Ukraine from within Ukraine itself, got himself arrested by the SBU a few times, eventually died of pneumonia whilst awaiting trial. Shame, cos himself and Scott Ritter would've been best buds.
Had Russia not bombed Ukrainian hospitals, he'd probably still be alive, peddling his inane twaddle 🤷🏻♂️
They're also spamming posts with mentions of everyone's favourite albino, alleged sex-pest, and violator of the Espionage Act, Julian "I fled sexual assault charges in Sweden" Assange.
It's tiresomely predictable.
A large number of troll-accounts were set up ind 2018. Found a number of those over at Quora, shlould be at FB, too, but I'm not there too often.
Those accounts share some similarities: Set up in 2018 (or earlier or later, but a lot are from 2018), few friends or followers, having laid dormant for all those years, with only one or two comments, questions, or answers.
Facebook is nowhere near the worst for it, x and YouTube are far worse, any article or video regarding ukraine, or navalny, or western defence news/policy will have the comments flooding with russian bots and Western sophists who parrot the same "denazification", "he was corrupt", "whubout azov", "putin elected by people because strong leader" lines ad nauseum in every comment.
Yeah, the amount of those kind of comments on yt is insane. I am trying to convince myself that most of them are bots and/or the same people behind multiple accounts.
I don't know what's more scary, the ignorants buying the lies line, hook and sinker, or the truly evil that actually rejoice seeing the russians kill, maim and destroy.
Don’t underestimate how far conservative mainstream media has contributed to this. My elderly parents don’t go on Facebook and they are parroting the same propaganda, all fed to them by Fox News.
Lots of bots perhaps? But my wife is a Russian “traitor” (according to her family) and she is appalled at how many Russians she’s seen on Norway-Russian forums that support Putin and the war. It’s extremely fucked up as they have all the information available to know the truth. These are people she knew online from before the war and they seemed sane then. It just goes to show that it’s impossible to really know people until the shit actually hits the fan.
QAnon is still strong, also they aren't just relying on the putin media but also Chinese media and other countries too. Using duckduckgo to get your news you can get pretty deep in the dark side of conspiracies just looking for news.
A lot of people give up on morality and just want to feel like their team has the biggest and most ruthless strongman. Classic bully + lackeys dynamic.
Some people just like the idea of being enslaved by a psychopath mass murderer. I really dont know why, but i presume its because they have delusions of murder, genocide and oppression themselves.
Its probably that simple
Which only means that their perceived stability and security are only so fragile. The Kremlin doesn’t have a stronghold on the hearts and minds of the people as is perceived.
They certainly don't have a stronghold on the hearts and minds of the people, and for sure they don't perceive themselves to have. They know that the people know they are full of shit and lying to them, but the people are just too cynically poisoned to do anything. The regime's only enemy is hope, and they do anything they can to nip them in the bud as soon as any wiff of it arises.
Guilt? It's the russian police, they're specifically chosen to be worst scum imaginable. They feel no guilt. To them Nawalny was a traitor, criminal and an idiot.
I just read a comment on my dutch newsite saying he "doesn't like how everyone is pointing the finger to putin, saying he is murdered" and telling us to "wait for the autopsy because navalny may have died of natural causes "....
wether a troll or not, this level of blind cynicism is je beyond me, and im really taken back by it.
Unbelievable.
People who say this still don’t understand Russia (or how those states were “reset”).
Fascist Germany and Imperial Japan still had a layer of liberalism and democracy underneath, that had developed over generations and were being suppressed by these regimes. When the Allies won the war and implemented that “total reset” there was a willing liberal segment of those societies who were ready to serve as the new government.
Russia never had that socio-political development. Russia doesn’t have that liberal segment of their society. There is no willing liberal democrats waiting to take over. Even if there were, at best they would be a Navalny type figure who was still quite imperialist and still a firm believer in Russkiy Mir and that other neighbouring states should be subservient to Moscow.
What is lurking behind Putin is another ultranationalist which we won’t like, or local power brokers who will become warlords. Maybe we’ll get Warring States period ala China but with nukes.
The only way to treat Russia is through a show of strength. Make them fully aware that the Baltics and other places are completely off-limits, and that they are a pariah state if they don’t keep behind their borders.
As I understand this isn't factually correct. The same people running the Nazi government ran the postwar government. There was no huge turnover to a waiting liberal segment of society. The new government was the same as the old government. They just held onto power by adapting.
https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germany-post-world-war-ii-government-2016-10?amp
Bit of both. The thing is, most people who worked in the government during the Nazi era were Nazis, of course, but they worked for the government because they wanted to be helpful public servants, improve the country, etc. The usual stuff. And that meant that a lot of these people were surprisingly reasonable + had no love for the Nazis by the time the war ended because of how badly it went. So yes, many of the top German politicians, especially in the West, worked for the Nazi government, but they weren’t die-hard believers in Nazi thinking.
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> What is lurking behind Putin is another ultranationalist
You're right, of course, but at this point it doesn't even matter. As long as they stop waging wars with other countries, that's good enough. Sucks for the Russian population, who will undoubtedly face more of the same bullshit, but that's a deal I'm willing to take. They have to sort their own country out, no one can do it for them.
> When the Allies won the war and implemented that “total reset” there was a willing liberal segment of those societies who were ready to serve as the new government.
> Russia never had that socio-political development.
Same reason Afghanistan didn't work out at all.
Afghanistan isn't even a nation (using the old sense of that word). It's a lot of nations grouped together in a single state. This has worked in some places in the world, but historically, functional federations are actually pretty rare, and often still rely on a large amount of shared cultural baggage.
India is a federation with many varying cultures and languages, but they still have a large unifying element too, having been a unitary state under previous indigenous and colonial rulers for many centuries.
In Afghanistan, many of the different peoples really don't care much about each other at all. They just don't have that much shared cultural heritage with each other, which is why the country is pretty deeply split.
> they would be a Navalny type figure who was still quite imperialist and still a firm believer in Russkiy Mir and that other neighbouring states should be subservient to Moscow.
That's just a blatant lie
>The only way to treat Russia is through a show of strength.
And I would argue that funding eastern european states with arms deals for them to fend for themselves against Russia does not a show of strength make.
This will not work. Germany could only be resetted because their ruin was so deep.
Germany was "lucky" that its regime simultaneously waged war on so many of its neighbors that absolute defeat followed. Immediately before the final defeat, Hitler attempted to exterminate his own people as well, using the Volkssturm, a last-ditch effort involving every male German between 14 and 80 who could stand on their feet. Anyone who did not want to fight was shot by SS men. His comments on this were also passed down. He thought that if the Germans could not win his insane war, they did not deserve him as their leader. They were to be completely annihilated and the country was to be settled by "stronger" peoples. That is why they continued to fight when the war had long been lost and all but the most ideologically blinded knew it. They were "defending" Berlin street by street and house by house when Germany was already totally taken over by the allied armies, killing huge amounts of people even during the very last days. Added to this was the expulsion and flight of millions of ethnic Germans from countries where some of these families had lived for centuries.
All this was the basic prerequisite for the Germans being able to find error and guilt in themselves at all (if they wanted to look). My grandfather had believed all the propaganda lies about German children being tortured to death by Poles and Jews and his world collapsed that the Führer had betrayed his people like that. Then came years or even decades of occupation by the Allies, a long ban on rearmament in West Germany, education (often forced directly after the war) about the concentration camps, the Holocaust, etcetera. Even so, we still have plenty of old and new Nazis, the CDU was full of figures like [Kiesinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Georg_Kiesinger) (Chancellor 1966-1969, former member and functionary of the NSDAP) or [Filbinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Filbinger) (Prime Minister of Baden-Württemberg from 1966-1978, former member of the NSDAP and judge that in 1945 had alleged deserters shot even in the very last days of the war, when everyone already knew that the war was irretrievably lost).
All these prerequisites are simply not given for Russia. Germany had so much dirt on its hands and practically started the Second World War on its own. Russia, on the other hand, unlike Hitler's Germany, does not build concentration camps specifically for the extermination of ethnically different citizens and has only ever invaded one country at a time since the collapse of the Soviet Union. As long as all this does not change - and maybe the Russian government decides that the Russian people themselves should be annihilated, analogous to the German Volkssturm - even a military conquest would not lead to re-education, but would only confirm the chauvinistic-paranoid world view that the Russians have been fed for decades.
It didn't happen at all. No lustration, KGB turned to FSB, people who was in charge of political oppression still had their power. Right now they're stronger than they were at the end of USSR
People outside of CIS generally tend to think that the fall of Soviet Union was like a mass liberation event for its citizens. While it is somewhat true, the sheer scale of chaos, gang wars, power struggle of elites and cultural turmoil is something that most people from the west has no point of reference to fully comprehend.
Democracy and civil society does not appear out of thin air, it’s nurtured and built over generations. The kind of environment that was Russia in the 90s only leads to the most cruel, cold blooded and cunning fucks amassing power, because normal people are too busy trying to put food on their tables and stay out of the way of violence outside.
No, the same people were still in power in Russia in the 90s, essentially. The same communists, thinking in terms of the Cold War and "zones of influence". There has been no work on the mistakes. From the outside it seemed that a "democratic Russia" had appeared, but it was the USSR in miniature. It was just too weak to be noticeable. Putin spent 20 years strengthening his dictatorship.
No they did change in the 90s, for the worst. The 90s was the worst decade in the country since WW2, a depression worse than the Great Depression was in the West. People don't understand this but Putin became popular *because* the 90s were so bad in Russia. Just ask any Russian, they're all terrified of something like the 90s happening again and Putin uses that fear to stay in power, he cynically convinces people he's the one who got them out of it and is keeping it from happening again.
Wow. Yes, he wasn’t a perfect man in terms of politics, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was brave enough to stand up, and that certainly doesn’t change the fact that he was murdered by a dictator in power. Rest in peace.
> he wasn’t a perfect man in terms of politics
The rest of your comment is on point, but dude, he wasn't even a good man, or even a decent man. Like, he had some sick views.
Gorbachev had some good intentions, but that wasn't enough. He was too indecisive even when it was already too late to change economic situation.
I would argue that Elzin is most despised leader of Russia, not Gorbachev. And at least some part of Elzin government tried to fix the mess they get from USSR. Well, they're despised too.
But in every country you can fool people with enough media resources. It says nothing about Russia or Russian people.
Navalny was Russian. He was exceptional man, but in his views, there were quite popular, not exceptional.
Not really when you consider his predecessors, they underwent a long period of stagnation and on top of that kept putting old men who died in office in the top job. Eventually *any* reform would have been preferable, the stagnant economy was always going to collapse eventually under the pressure of fighting the Cold War without heavy reform whether it was Gorbachev-shaped or not.
At the end of the day, Russians can say whatever they want about their leaders. We, outsiders can judge them and their leaders as “outsiders”. Maybe he was a bad leader for the economy or the russian people. But as a Romanian, as part of a nation that for all its modern history has been bullied, invaded and mutilated by Russia, and also as part of a nation that neighbors Russia, along dozens of other states, I think we can all say: Gorbachev was a blessing to foreign affairs. He was one of the few Russian leaders that didn’t bully, suppress and threaten their neighbours. One of the few that let us decide for ourselves and respect us. For that, Gorbachev will remain legendary and beloved in local and world history.
These policemen don’t feel weird destroying a memorial of a political prisoner who magically died? Does anyone even minimally doubt that what they’re doing might be wrong? I understand that they’re deeply brainwashed, but at least they should try to rationalize what’s happening… These people are brainless pigs. Fucking cowards who use group force to bully and destroy anyone they’re told to…
Unfortunately the amoral bootlicker-type personality exists everywhere. You usually find them in positions of low-level authority. People with real authority like them because they act as enforcers and do as they're told. Basically, your manager.
What a small small insignificant gnom Putin is to order such things. Not a shocker but paints him as the psychotic clown he really is. Nothing you should respect in any way.
No. Every dictatorship/occupant removes all traces of opposition so that people do not have anything to gather around. It works; Germany did this,, Ancient empires did this, USSR did this, and so on.
It's evil but not stupid.
Russia is what happens when you have a nation of weak minded villagers doing nothing while their glorious leader uses them for canon fodder. And they love him for it.
Same thing is happening in America.
Putin, so powerful and yet so scared of Navalny, even if he isn't alive anymore.
Often those in complete control like Putin or Stalin are in a weird paradox of being extremely stable, in control and confident...while at the same time being one wrong step from complete collapse, fearing even the slightest hint of opposition and extremely paranoid They are simultaneously unreachable, powerful and unbeatable while also being very fragile and weak if that makes sense
The glass cannons of world leaders
Cuz being in controll and confidence is just learned pose in these cases
Speaking in videogame terms... a glass cannon?
It's always the same with these strongman types. They act like they are the manliest people on the planet and other men admire them for their "strength", but they can't even handle the tiniest but of criticism without throwing a huge tantrum. They are the biggest snowflakes you can imagine.
The only way to overthrow him is to make him lose the war in Ukraine
Would that guarantee anything? Sadam Hussein received the biggest stomp and one sided war in history with the gulf war yet remained in power.
Actually building on that... figure out how to make a martyr of Navalny, and like the 3 ghosts of Christmas, taunt and haunt Putin until he makes a mistake...
I always wonder if the dictators know how weak the rest of the world sees these kind of acts, or if they are drinking their own Kool-Aid.
It goes with the propoganda. They want people to unlearn the word “opposition”, so they remove anything that reminds them. Happens all the time.
and police is standing guard as they tear the place apart, or was it police doing it? Just overall fucked up, I hope the camera man is safe.
Its the police that does it.
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Allways has been
literally
Well to be frank, in the 1970s they were ahead of time.
In propaganda they are still ahead.
Yeah. They managed to even make toilet paper by that time. To be exact in 1969…
Yeltsin actually tried to democratize and modernize Russia and it's economy, he wanted Russia to be a modern European country. But then he appointed Putin, and a few years later Yeltsin realized his mistake.
Are u surprised by this?
more like 1922-1953
Closer to 1937
But when people protest against the government or tear down Soviet and pro-government memorials I’m sure the police will swoop in and deal with that straight away. Russia once again proving to be an authoritarian state.
Fucked up.
They brought police in civilian clothes because photographs of police breaking the memorial would look too negative. Classic putinism: lies and cruelty.
Yes. The in the video the guy mentions they all got out of the bus together, looks like it was organised
I think he said that he doesn't know where they came from, he points to the bus saying "Maybe from here, I do not know."
They already reached the bottom of negative
Oh no, it's gonna get a lot worse...
Spoke with some russian anarchist radical and he expects Chilean scenario with stadiums full of regime opponents in next few years
I think they're right on the Chilean part, but are wrong on the timeline. What's going to happen now is Putin will get even more brazen with his attacks on internal opposition and we're going to go from "fell out of a window" and other thinly veiled facades into full blown broad daylight helicopter rides.
I doubt that's going to happen. Russia has been doing this shit literally for hundreds of years, the population doesn't care. Poot will die eventually, and then he'll be replaced by an equally deranged psycho because russian people always vote for the biggest bully.
The votes are fixed to begin with
Russia has infinity of bottoms
Gotta catch'em all.
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That is not really a memorial to Navalny. It is a monument to the victims of political repression in Russia. [Solovetsky Stone ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solovetsky_Stone)
That's surprising, too.
Not really, it's from 1990. Gorbachev era.
I'd be interested in knowing the story of the monument too, but my deep search of 5 minutes only on Wikipedia wasn't successful
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solovetsky_Stone
Thank you
It's not even for Navalny. It's been there since 1990 to honor the victims of political repression in Soviet Union. Navalny was just yet another victim of the regime...
They didnt and anyone that contributed is probably on a list now.
Authoritarian soviet thugs destroying it, authoritarian soviet thugs watching over it.
And authoritarian soviet enablets looking at it.
Big Brother is Watching You.
In the video the guy says that the police didn’t let them go to the memorial
Yeah, I would keep looking around myself if I were him.
I can detect the europeans that did not witness a totalitarian regime by the naivety of their words. In a totalitarian regime the police protects the dictator and do his bidding.
Those who're destroying the memorial are municipal(utility) workers probably, police is providing cover.
These people are scary levels of brainwashed.
It's even scarier when you realize that there are people outside of Russia who support Pootin, eventhough they have access to free media which isn't controlled by the government.
Don't underestimate the power of the Russian troll army and the depths of Facebook rabbit holes people have gotten themselves in.
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They have suddenly gone active today. Look for accounts that have registered recently and have been doing random posts like cars and travel, and then suddenly becomes interested in Russia or Ukraine.
It's an election year in the US. In those years, activity basically increases 4x. Geeee I wish we could just cut all telecommunications of russia.
We should be removing the .ru and .su domain names.
They're spamming Navalny posts on YouTube and Twitter with "wHaT aBoUt GoNzAlO LiRa???" GL was a creepy incel "dating coach" who (like more than a few others, gee I wonder why paedos, groomers, and creepy incels flock towards the Kremlin?) suddenly decided itd be a good idea to parrot pro-Russian disinformation and propaganda about Ukraine from within Ukraine itself, got himself arrested by the SBU a few times, eventually died of pneumonia whilst awaiting trial. Shame, cos himself and Scott Ritter would've been best buds. Had Russia not bombed Ukrainian hospitals, he'd probably still be alive, peddling his inane twaddle 🤷🏻♂️ They're also spamming posts with mentions of everyone's favourite albino, alleged sex-pest, and violator of the Espionage Act, Julian "I fled sexual assault charges in Sweden" Assange. It's tiresomely predictable.
>wHaT aBoUt GoNzAlO LiRa?? Call him by his real name - Coach Redpill?
A large number of troll-accounts were set up ind 2018. Found a number of those over at Quora, shlould be at FB, too, but I'm not there too often. Those accounts share some similarities: Set up in 2018 (or earlier or later, but a lot are from 2018), few friends or followers, having laid dormant for all those years, with only one or two comments, questions, or answers.
Nyet, I'm not! How very dare you sir!
Facebook is nowhere near the worst for it, x and YouTube are far worse, any article or video regarding ukraine, or navalny, or western defence news/policy will have the comments flooding with russian bots and Western sophists who parrot the same "denazification", "he was corrupt", "whubout azov", "putin elected by people because strong leader" lines ad nauseum in every comment.
Yeah, the amount of those kind of comments on yt is insane. I am trying to convince myself that most of them are bots and/or the same people behind multiple accounts.
It's crazy that Google will lock you out of your 15 year old Gmail account at random and at the same time they let bots run wild on Youtube.
I don't know what's more scary, the ignorants buying the lies line, hook and sinker, or the truly evil that actually rejoice seeing the russians kill, maim and destroy.
Don’t underestimate how far conservative mainstream media has contributed to this. My elderly parents don’t go on Facebook and they are parroting the same propaganda, all fed to them by Fox News.
It's even scarier that there are politicians that oppenly support Russia, and there are enough voters to grant them a seat in a parliament.
Norway here, can confirm.
Comment section at ABC Nyheter on Facebook is a cess pool of pro-Russians and covid sceptics 😅
Lots of bots perhaps? But my wife is a Russian “traitor” (according to her family) and she is appalled at how many Russians she’s seen on Norway-Russian forums that support Putin and the war. It’s extremely fucked up as they have all the information available to know the truth. These are people she knew online from before the war and they seemed sane then. It just goes to show that it’s impossible to really know people until the shit actually hits the fan.
And even scarier that there are a lot of people inside Russia who don't support Putin, and have to live with this shit every day...
QAnon is still strong, also they aren't just relying on the putin media but also Chinese media and other countries too. Using duckduckgo to get your news you can get pretty deep in the dark side of conspiracies just looking for news.
most people i've seen have this stance have family members in russia. don't wanna shittalk putin if it might hurt grandma and uncle dimitri.
And the curse the free media for reporting facts, which they claim are ‘fake news’ or ‘liberal bias’.
A lot of people give up on morality and just want to feel like their team has the biggest and most ruthless strongman. Classic bully + lackeys dynamic.
We're trying to bankrupt ours here, but our conservative wannabe oligarchs have already been compromised by Kremlin Kash.
Like Tucker? lol
Some people just like the idea of being enslaved by a psychopath mass murderer. I really dont know why, but i presume its because they have delusions of murder, genocide and oppression themselves. Its probably that simple
The people with low IQ :( Education is important
It’s the police. They get paid to do this.
Yeah it's not brainwashing, just people who like being in power over others.
They are still so afraid of a man whom they have murdered. The guilt is going to haunt them until the end of time.
They are afraid the people start to break free of their cynicism manacles
Which only means that their perceived stability and security are only so fragile. The Kremlin doesn’t have a stronghold on the hearts and minds of the people as is perceived.
They certainly don't have a stronghold on the hearts and minds of the people, and for sure they don't perceive themselves to have. They know that the people know they are full of shit and lying to them, but the people are just too cynically poisoned to do anything. The regime's only enemy is hope, and they do anything they can to nip them in the bud as soon as any wiff of it arises.
Guilt? It's the russian police, they're specifically chosen to be worst scum imaginable. They feel no guilt. To them Nawalny was a traitor, criminal and an idiot.
> They feel no guilt. To them Nawalny was a traitor, criminal and an idiot That's why Russians gathered to build the memorial in the first place
That's why we must support ukraine
I just read a comment on my dutch newsite saying he "doesn't like how everyone is pointing the finger to putin, saying he is murdered" and telling us to "wait for the autopsy because navalny may have died of natural causes ".... wether a troll or not, this level of blind cynicism is je beyond me, and im really taken back by it. Unbelievable.
Nah, they are paid to do this. They are most often just plain clothes security services (police, rosgvardia etc.)
They get paid to do this, no one will go out of their way to do this for nothing
Reminds me of the average redditor.
You know nothing about navalny if you think he's a good guy
I agree but same for the people that vote for Trump
Russia needs a total reset, post war Germany style.
People who say this still don’t understand Russia (or how those states were “reset”). Fascist Germany and Imperial Japan still had a layer of liberalism and democracy underneath, that had developed over generations and were being suppressed by these regimes. When the Allies won the war and implemented that “total reset” there was a willing liberal segment of those societies who were ready to serve as the new government. Russia never had that socio-political development. Russia doesn’t have that liberal segment of their society. There is no willing liberal democrats waiting to take over. Even if there were, at best they would be a Navalny type figure who was still quite imperialist and still a firm believer in Russkiy Mir and that other neighbouring states should be subservient to Moscow. What is lurking behind Putin is another ultranationalist which we won’t like, or local power brokers who will become warlords. Maybe we’ll get Warring States period ala China but with nukes. The only way to treat Russia is through a show of strength. Make them fully aware that the Baltics and other places are completely off-limits, and that they are a pariah state if they don’t keep behind their borders.
Excuse me what, Imperial Japan did not have a shed of liberalism to it, people just make shit up hahahaha
As I understand this isn't factually correct. The same people running the Nazi government ran the postwar government. There was no huge turnover to a waiting liberal segment of society. The new government was the same as the old government. They just held onto power by adapting. https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germany-post-world-war-ii-government-2016-10?amp
Bit of both. The thing is, most people who worked in the government during the Nazi era were Nazis, of course, but they worked for the government because they wanted to be helpful public servants, improve the country, etc. The usual stuff. And that meant that a lot of these people were surprisingly reasonable + had no love for the Nazis by the time the war ended because of how badly it went. So yes, many of the top German politicians, especially in the West, worked for the Nazi government, but they weren’t die-hard believers in Nazi thinking.
Fair enough.
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> What is lurking behind Putin is another ultranationalist You're right, of course, but at this point it doesn't even matter. As long as they stop waging wars with other countries, that's good enough. Sucks for the Russian population, who will undoubtedly face more of the same bullshit, but that's a deal I'm willing to take. They have to sort their own country out, no one can do it for them.
So you're saying Navalny didn't exist?
> When the Allies won the war and implemented that “total reset” there was a willing liberal segment of those societies who were ready to serve as the new government. > Russia never had that socio-political development. Same reason Afghanistan didn't work out at all.
Afghanistan isn't even a nation (using the old sense of that word). It's a lot of nations grouped together in a single state. This has worked in some places in the world, but historically, functional federations are actually pretty rare, and often still rely on a large amount of shared cultural baggage. India is a federation with many varying cultures and languages, but they still have a large unifying element too, having been a unitary state under previous indigenous and colonial rulers for many centuries. In Afghanistan, many of the different peoples really don't care much about each other at all. They just don't have that much shared cultural heritage with each other, which is why the country is pretty deeply split.
People who say this have no idea about Russia and it's internal politics in the past 30 years.
One liberal democrat was just killed in jail, and he was an authority figure for many Russians. How come there are none, as you say?
This needs to go higher.... Perhaps if Russia were to break apart, I'd be less threatning.
If Russia breaks up, it will be like the breakup of Yugoslavia, but with nukes this time.
I mean it happened when USSR broke up. They just consolidated the nukes into one country.
No one is ever giving away nukes now after we saw what happens when you do that…
> they would be a Navalny type figure who was still quite imperialist and still a firm believer in Russkiy Mir and that other neighbouring states should be subservient to Moscow. That's just a blatant lie
>The only way to treat Russia is through a show of strength. And I would argue that funding eastern european states with arms deals for them to fend for themselves against Russia does not a show of strength make.
This will not work. Germany could only be resetted because their ruin was so deep. Germany was "lucky" that its regime simultaneously waged war on so many of its neighbors that absolute defeat followed. Immediately before the final defeat, Hitler attempted to exterminate his own people as well, using the Volkssturm, a last-ditch effort involving every male German between 14 and 80 who could stand on their feet. Anyone who did not want to fight was shot by SS men. His comments on this were also passed down. He thought that if the Germans could not win his insane war, they did not deserve him as their leader. They were to be completely annihilated and the country was to be settled by "stronger" peoples. That is why they continued to fight when the war had long been lost and all but the most ideologically blinded knew it. They were "defending" Berlin street by street and house by house when Germany was already totally taken over by the allied armies, killing huge amounts of people even during the very last days. Added to this was the expulsion and flight of millions of ethnic Germans from countries where some of these families had lived for centuries. All this was the basic prerequisite for the Germans being able to find error and guilt in themselves at all (if they wanted to look). My grandfather had believed all the propaganda lies about German children being tortured to death by Poles and Jews and his world collapsed that the Führer had betrayed his people like that. Then came years or even decades of occupation by the Allies, a long ban on rearmament in West Germany, education (often forced directly after the war) about the concentration camps, the Holocaust, etcetera. Even so, we still have plenty of old and new Nazis, the CDU was full of figures like [Kiesinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Georg_Kiesinger) (Chancellor 1966-1969, former member and functionary of the NSDAP) or [Filbinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Filbinger) (Prime Minister of Baden-Württemberg from 1966-1978, former member of the NSDAP and judge that in 1945 had alleged deserters shot even in the very last days of the war, when everyone already knew that the war was irretrievably lost). All these prerequisites are simply not given for Russia. Germany had so much dirt on its hands and practically started the Second World War on its own. Russia, on the other hand, unlike Hitler's Germany, does not build concentration camps specifically for the extermination of ethnically different citizens and has only ever invaded one country at a time since the collapse of the Soviet Union. As long as all this does not change - and maybe the Russian government decides that the Russian people themselves should be annihilated, analogous to the German Volkssturm - even a military conquest would not lead to re-education, but would only confirm the chauvinistic-paranoid world view that the Russians have been fed for decades.
Happened in the 90s already, but, unlike Germany, they were not able to change.
It didn't happen at all. No lustration, KGB turned to FSB, people who was in charge of political oppression still had their power. Right now they're stronger than they were at the end of USSR
People outside of CIS generally tend to think that the fall of Soviet Union was like a mass liberation event for its citizens. While it is somewhat true, the sheer scale of chaos, gang wars, power struggle of elites and cultural turmoil is something that most people from the west has no point of reference to fully comprehend. Democracy and civil society does not appear out of thin air, it’s nurtured and built over generations. The kind of environment that was Russia in the 90s only leads to the most cruel, cold blooded and cunning fucks amassing power, because normal people are too busy trying to put food on their tables and stay out of the way of violence outside.
No, the same people were still in power in Russia in the 90s, essentially. The same communists, thinking in terms of the Cold War and "zones of influence". There has been no work on the mistakes. From the outside it seemed that a "democratic Russia" had appeared, but it was the USSR in miniature. It was just too weak to be noticeable. Putin spent 20 years strengthening his dictatorship.
Simpsons were right all along
Russia in the 90ies is more like Germany after WW1. They felt defeated and humiliated.
And their leaders pointed the finger at everything but their own decisions.
No they did change in the 90s, for the worst. The 90s was the worst decade in the country since WW2, a depression worse than the Great Depression was in the West. People don't understand this but Putin became popular *because* the 90s were so bad in Russia. Just ask any Russian, they're all terrified of something like the 90s happening again and Putin uses that fear to stay in power, he cynically convinces people he's the one who got them out of it and is keeping it from happening again.
It's a shame that this doesn't come as a surprise.
What a clown state
All lead by a clown who refuses to ever admit he's wrong.
he doesn't have anything to admit, he wouldn't see himself as wrong. not that moral a person.
Nah. Clowns are harmless.
Wow. Yes, he wasn’t a perfect man in terms of politics, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was brave enough to stand up, and that certainly doesn’t change the fact that he was murdered by a dictator in power. Rest in peace.
> he wasn’t a perfect man in terms of politics The rest of your comment is on point, but dude, he wasn't even a good man, or even a decent man. Like, he had some sick views.
Like what?
What where those views
It’s crazy to think Gorbachev even happened in a country like Russia.
The fact that the only guy who cared about the well-being of Russians is their most disliked leader says everything about the country.
Gorbachev had some good intentions, but that wasn't enough. He was too indecisive even when it was already too late to change economic situation. I would argue that Elzin is most despised leader of Russia, not Gorbachev. And at least some part of Elzin government tried to fix the mess they get from USSR. Well, they're despised too. But in every country you can fool people with enough media resources. It says nothing about Russia or Russian people. Navalny was Russian. He was exceptional man, but in his views, there were quite popular, not exceptional.
Yeltsin is the main reason why they have Putin now along with the oligarchs
You're right about that
Not really when you consider his predecessors, they underwent a long period of stagnation and on top of that kept putting old men who died in office in the top job. Eventually *any* reform would have been preferable, the stagnant economy was always going to collapse eventually under the pressure of fighting the Cold War without heavy reform whether it was Gorbachev-shaped or not.
At the end of the day, Russians can say whatever they want about their leaders. We, outsiders can judge them and their leaders as “outsiders”. Maybe he was a bad leader for the economy or the russian people. But as a Romanian, as part of a nation that for all its modern history has been bullied, invaded and mutilated by Russia, and also as part of a nation that neighbors Russia, along dozens of other states, I think we can all say: Gorbachev was a blessing to foreign affairs. He was one of the few Russian leaders that didn’t bully, suppress and threaten their neighbours. One of the few that let us decide for ourselves and respect us. For that, Gorbachev will remain legendary and beloved in local and world history.
Russia is beyond fucked up, beyond repair!
For a long time now
Always has been
Always has been.
One day of mourning was enough to trigger Pootin eh
This video is from yesterday, so more like a couple of hours.
How.. tasteless of them.
Coverage of the flowers were spreading in Western media. They couldn't have that.
Russia seems to want the top spot of being the worst sh*t hole country of the 21st century
Well Tucker Carlson seems to disagree with you. Or at least he thinks Moscow is greater than any American city
He should move there then
You might just fall out of the window if you move too much. The window frames are installed notoriously low in all of Russia.
Well I dunno… I think North Korea is way worse the Russia.
Remind us in couple years
Is it even the 21st Century in North Korea yet?
[No, it isn't.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche_calendar)
NK isn't invading other countries.
Not for lack of want
Don't speak so soon.
Scum cannot stand even the memory of their betters.
Classic Russian authorities.
These policemen don’t feel weird destroying a memorial of a political prisoner who magically died? Does anyone even minimally doubt that what they’re doing might be wrong? I understand that they’re deeply brainwashed, but at least they should try to rationalize what’s happening… These people are brainless pigs. Fucking cowards who use group force to bully and destroy anyone they’re told to…
Unfortunately the amoral bootlicker-type personality exists everywhere. You usually find them in positions of low-level authority. People with real authority like them because they act as enforcers and do as they're told. Basically, your manager.
What a small small insignificant gnom Putin is to order such things. Not a shocker but paints him as the psychotic clown he really is. Nothing you should respect in any way.
No. Every dictatorship/occupant removes all traces of opposition so that people do not have anything to gather around. It works; Germany did this,, Ancient empires did this, USSR did this, and so on. It's evil but not stupid.
the fact that they are doing this is that they are insecure and there's always revolution fear in their heads.
Snowflake regime getting scared by dead people.
RIP to a truly selfless man who tried to be a decent human being, no matter the consequences.
I don’t know what you people are on about. Expected in my opinion
This is a shame, no words for such a behavior.
So insecure. Imagine being a leader this afraid. Shows major weakness.
I can't even see what those dudes are doing in the snow...
Pathetic.
Anyone here who speak russian could translate what the camera man is saying?
Russia is what happens when you have a nation of weak minded villagers doing nothing while their glorious leader uses them for canon fodder. And they love him for it. Same thing is happening in America.
Putin has a micro penis. Putin deserves to die, freedom for Russia!
Russia is not a real country anymore.
The pootin stormtroopers clearing the path for his opressive reign
Putin is so scared of Navalnyi even after he's dead.
“Hurrr durrrr ruuusia so freee!” Cried a bunch of trump nut licking magat cultists.
I was wondering when this would happen. What a small man Putin is.
So Putin does support destruction of memorials
I was wondering why they even let the visit the memorial and not immediately have more people jump out of windows.
Thats strange… i thought they said they had nothing to do with his death? These actions suggest otherwise (obviously)
I like to see how scared Putin is of a dead man
Another thing that suggests to me, that he was gotten rid of.
Putin is terrified of ghosts.. reeks of weakness and fear
American cops are jerking hard to this level of authority
This is sickening, Putin needs to go away,
Putin can expect the same in the future.
Destroying memorials that aren't politically popular? Good thing this only happens in Russia and would never happen in say, the USA