The last elections were heavily contested since GD has a pretty strong hold over the central electoral commission and is known to mass bribe the impoverished to vote for them. The turnout was also abysmal since the opposition is in disarray.
Regardless, even the core GD voters mostly don’t care about this law, it never had any public support to begin with. Them pressing on with it in face of this much opposition both domestic and from our allies doesn’t represent the will of any constituency.
This is happening in many countries wordwide. Politicians passing controversial laws against the will of the people. People will protest but their governments will pass the law/bill anyway.
The video and protests being brutally cracked down on outside the building say otherwise... But you know that, you just don't care what the majority think
Yeah, most western people dont buy the russian bs and their views on world, comes with first world education, no gulags and not throwing political and buisness opposition out of a window as a standard practice. And not constantly invading your neighbours or infiltrating their politicans to control them.
Also a lot of first hand soviet satelite states expierence on this subs, its not false or propaganda, our grandparents are alive and actually lived through this shit to tell us, so dont try your ussr jedi mind tricks that it was all just a lie and western propaganda bs because I literally have a member in the house that remembers communism, my parents remember the fall of communism etc.
Look vatnik, am not gonna lie, great panslavic empire ia a good idea, but not if its only a tool for other slavs to be subjects of Russia and not when Russia staright up lies and ommits other slavs history and wrongdoings done by the Russia to them, dont worry, 300 more years and some ass kickings and even you guys will get it, eventually.
The fact that your politicans and media started denying you did the Katyn massacre just because our contries are at odds again, even tho we know you did it, you know you did, everyone knows you did it, but you do it to create more idiots in Russia anyway is literally a great example of historical revisionism I am talking about.
Hell we even know Kalinin was one of the guys signing the orders with Stalin cause you dipshits gave us the documents, so the name Kaliningrad right next to Polish border is just a delibarate insult...
We know shitheads... we know YOU, its not phobia, because it not irrational by any means, and we are ready this time.
Empire is a bad word but every single region gained influence by federalisation in the recent history, you wont convince me that w/e the fuck is going on in Balkans is better for those guys in the long run than lets say what Yugoslavia could be.
Thats is far and away pipe dream because of how Rusaians, Serbs are acting anyway bit a central/eastern slavic EU could work if we stoppwd trying to sominate each other for a fucking century and started smaller.
Europe is not really in any position to protect Georgia if it cannot even protect Ukraine who is willing to fight. "the west" fucked up by promising these countries NATO membership and then not immediately starting to implement them, and now we are dragging our feets with EU membership too (which also includes defense treaties).
So this is just another case of unfortunately neighboring Russia.
From a [2008 article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7328276.stm) regarding NATO denying Georgia and Ukraine membership: “Germany and France had been opposed to putting the two nations on the path to membership, amid concerns voiced by Russia over Nato's eastward expansion.”
Well as you well know if you do enough things that Russia doesn't like Russia will try to kill you. Georgia doesn't have enough manpower to and of course Georgia will get no support from anyone if Russia decides to invade or bomb Georgia since Georgia can't secure it's airspace. If they rigged the elections they are doing it so with the knowledge that if anyone says anything they can threaten them with the russian invasion. That's the misfortune of anyone who happens to border that shitstain of a country (unless of course you're lucky enough to be part of NATO).
Hahaha. I'm not, I'm protesting in front of my parliament. Your bosses are a remnant of a dying empire, get used to it comrade. You're on the losing side.
> That's awful news. What russia cannot have with brute force, they have by meddling the politics of other countries.
True but other way around. Meddling fails, army enterns the picture.
Your country invaded Georgia in 2008, accusing Georgia of committing genocide. (Seams the leit motiv of your country to invade peaceful neighbours)
Your country is occupying 20% of Georgian territory: what has russia do to with it?
Take a wild guess, Sherlockovich.
Why? because it is similar to Russian law? what's bad about it? Why is it normal for the USA and Russia to have such a law, but bad for Georgia? Do Georgians not deserve to know about external influences in their country or what?
They're not answering you because they have no reply, the west is massively hypocritical on this issue they are essentially saying they have a God given right to psyop the Georgian people
The influence is a fair game tbh, the questions are, how those 83 came into power, who's behind them, how to make them change allegiance, replace or bring new, again with soft influence but then ensure new power has means to protect itself militarily or draw such lucrative contracts with Russia that it's bad business for them to invade.
> The government here is bought and paid for
Doesn't this mean they would need to register and face restrictions under this law? So why would they be pushing it?
Exactly this, the Russian money is laundered through the Georgian national oligarch in control of the ruling party in their pocket, Ivanishvili, holding a third of the country's GDP and more than the state budget in wealth.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and explain the situation.
Bidzina Ivanishvili made his money in Russia as an oligarch and then came back to Georgia. He founded the ruling party, Georgian Dream, and became prime minister after the dramatic downfall of the UNM, another party. BI has since used his power to kill programs that would harm him, like the Anaklia port project(as revealed in the Panama papers) and passing another recent law allowing Georgia to be used to house offshore funds- which benefits only him and his oligarch buddies. He will also remove ministers who oppose him, as he did with Giorgi Gakharia and very likely the prime minister who just resigned, Garibashvili.
80% of the population wants to join the EU. Isn’t it odd that their elected officials seem to be doing everything to do the opposite?
>BI has since used his power to kill programs that would harm him, like the Anaklia port project
Killing it doesn't just benefit him, it benefits Russia through restricting trade and potential military assistance from the EU to the Caucasus, keeping them dependent on good relations with their oppressor.
Oh yeah they're just dying to get back to the Motherland whose officials keep calling them traitors and bit by bit introduce measures to screw them over.
Where the fuck does the "they're not anti-war actually" bullshit come from
Well, the ones who stay in Georgia learn the language, try to integrate, And some even help Ukrainian volunteer support organizations. And there's been some polling of the new emigrant populations in Armenia and Georgia and they show majority opposition to Putin and the war. It's just that no one talks about it, so Western redditors default to the "booo they all love Putin and actually like the war, they're fifth column evil", as if this emigration wave is the same who left Russia in the 90s
If only 1% of russians decides to act and clean their mess, the entire World would have been a better place. 1% = 1.440.000 people. Problem is that the spoiled kids of st.petersburg and moscow can't care the less, knowing that the wars will be fought by the ethic minorities, that join the army because of the lack of jobs.
Do you want me to share the comments of your countrymen they did after a russian murdered two Ukrainians in Germany?
Have you see how many "Poor russians are so against the war" were visiting the seized Western equipment in show for the "patriotic" war? Most, not all, of course, but most of the russians are yes against the war, in the meaning of not getting killed in Ukraine, but happy that "their guys" are slaughtering Ukrainians.
On a side note, I am a living person and I use reddit.
I was talking about Russians in Georgia though. Not the...people living comments online (which can't be sociologically representative of anything by any definition, even if you assume that they're all real and none of them are generated by Kremlin bot farms).
That's not even to mention the asinine "just go out and protest lol" attitude you bring up. There's more to overthrowing dictatorships than that.
From what I've been reading, it's been kind of a thing for the few months/last year already? At least there's been reports of Georgia denying residency permits to Russians much more often than usual, and also denying re-entry to some who've already settled in the country (making "visa runs" potentially dangerous)
Also I remember at least one case of a Russian activist fleeing to Georgia being denied entry and being essentially forced to return to Russia, but I'm not sure
I live in Thailand and know several Russians who have fled and work remotely. They are ashamed of their government, the war and the total power given to military and police. Russia is an authoritarian regime without any questions at this point, many Russians know this and want change.
>Two can play the game
Not really, if it go russian way as it do now police will just find nothing, and since your surname and name will be in report, you know who will face issues after reporting important politicans to his lapdogs, you just put yourself in vulnerable position
when one party abuse majority like united russia (which probably georgian dream role model) even shaggy defence will be enough for "their people" if someone catch them red handed
> Two can play that game.
Yes. And yet, the protest are seen as explicitly pro-western. Which makes it look like pro-western factions are so much more dependent on foreign funding and do not want this to become public knowledge.
> Which makes it look like pro-western factions are so much more dependent on foreign funding and do not want this to become public knowledge.
Because KGB does not ask for invoices for the money they spend.
> invoices for the money they spend.
Why should *any* politician need to receive money from abroad? Perhaps pro-Russian ones are as corrupt as some people here suggest. Does this make it OK for other politicians to be on US payroll? Even if invoiced properly, this is still nothing but selling own country to foreign interests.
The law is not limited to politicians,. If you are a YouTuber so get money from Google you are now labeled a "foreign agent" . Same for NGOs that receive donations from outside.
Where KGB actions are not limited to politicians also, they paid people to paint nazi symbols in France, paid people to go and protest for pro-Ruzzia, paid people to start violence in protests etc.
Politicians sure, they should disclose when they get paid by Putin or anyone else.
> If you are a YouTuber
That depends on what kind of YouTuber you are. If your channel deals with gaming or gardening nobody would care either way. But if you are doing political commentary, your listeners deserve to know who is paying for the music.
> Politicians sure, they should disclose when they get paid by Putin or anyone else.
Yes. But not just politicians in the sense of elected representatives or government officials. Anyone who is trying to influence the public should disclose his source of funding, including parties, NGOs, journalists, activists, and even YouTubers, if they engage in politics in any capacity.
And your point is that Georgians are brainwashed by the gay, liberal west to hate their good brothers Ruzzians and protest the Ruzzian law? Or why are they protesting and why are the pro-Ruz party so hard pushing for this?
Ask Georgians why they are protesting against the Ruzzian law, I am not from there, there is no reason me repeating what I read from them, in fact you can scroll and read what Georgians say here and ask them.
Nothing inspired from Ruzzia is good, now gay people and chess masters are labeled extremists/terrorists in Ruzzia.
I just fixed your misinformation and added some details on how KGB, now renamed to FSB operates.
I feel so bad for these people.
Imagine seeing Ukraine and then seeing the walls of the Western world closing, a giant steel wall rising with a forcefield around it. The Western world is already in a defensive posture. Entering the West will become more and more difficult as our countries consolidates what we have and bolsters our defenses with existing countries. Those outside the walls of the west will be eaten by wolves aka China/Russia/Iran, etc and if they are allowed in later, they will be nothing more than a buffer. That's super dangerous, thats how countries have proxy wars where death and destruction is guaranteed. And yes, I'm fun at partys.
These people are saying "No, we want democracy, we want western ideology, we are willing to fight for our freedom!" And Russias corrupt puppets are saying "thats cute."
Tbh, ukrainian men is already shuttered outside of West. We basically can't leave the country and our one and only legal option is go to fields and die. And Poland's minister of defence is pushing the law about deportation ukrainian male refugees back to Ukraine which is also fucked up.
I bet nobody tried to look past the headline here...
There's nothing wrong with Foreign Agency Registration Act in the US , but there's something wrong with this particular law of the same nature.
For those who say that this law is based on Russian law -- you'd be disappointed, because Russian procedure of appointment somebody/ some organisation as a Foreign Agent IS NOT TRANSPARENT AT ALL, while Georgian law actually has a key principle which makes a person or organization a Foreign Agent.
The key factor is, if 20%+ of your finances come from another country, then you might be appointed as a Foreign Agent. This law in fact allows to fight all the influence, whether it is the Russian, European or American.
Do you realize that Georgia is quite negative towards Russia? They even had military exercises with USA last year.
Now they are Russian puppet because they adopt law that US had for decades?
It seems to me that USA is just salty they will have harder time meddling in matters of sovereign country.
Good day for transparency in Georgia. Everyone complaining is just salty cuz they cant influence Georgian internal politics.
Rules based world order: Rules for thee, not for me.
The law that the government is trying to pass is fully endorsed by the Russian government. It will label any NGO receiving funding from foreign country as a foreign agent (this includes media, charities, think tanks, aid programs).
the oligarch in charge and the leader (owner) of the governing party (who got all his wealth in Russia) very publicly stated he would crack down on “NGO foreign agents undermining our sovereignty.” The government rhetoric is also extremely vocally anti west, specifically using the wording “west is undermining our sovereignty”. This government needs to go.
Why? Is it bad to not want, or rather have them explicitly state, funding to local media outlets? Why does Georgia *needs* to have these things you listed?
1. NGOs are already transparent with their funding.
2. Did you read the point about suppression? This is purely legal means of suppressing independent organizations and media. That’s sort of the whole thing.
NGOs are usually the ones funding the media outlets. I can't see how basic transparency translates into suppression. Let's say someone is one hundred percent funded by foreign NGOs - isn't it fair to label them as being "foreign" or "completely foreign funded"?
Who "owns" the Georgian government? Is it a private institution?
If foreign NGOs are the ones doing all funding I see no problem with someone addressing them specifically.
What you're really saying make it seem like the opposition want to hide who is funding them. It really stops being a natural opposition, within the framework of the given nation, when it's largely or fully funded by outside foreign actors. What is US media all of sudden started beocming predominantly funded by Russian or Chinese NGOs - wouldn't it be fair if the US government proclaimed all outlets need to be transaprent about who is funding them? I even believe, last thing I know, it already is like this in the US
https://www.forbes.com/sites/juliaioffe/2012/03/07/nobody-is-bigger-than-bidzina/
This guy owns it through Russian money, which of course would be exempt by this law because he himself is a Georgian national and neither an NGO or a media company.
The man is still there, funding and directing his party, the only thing that has changed in that regard is that he took a brief break from working in the limelight until now and the inevitable fluctuations in the size of the Georgian economy relative to Ivanishvili's wealth.
You can't have much of a discussion on Georgian politics today without the context of the 2012 election coming up along with Georgian Dream's road to power and the empty promises made during the following decade. This is not the pro-EU party it promused to be, but a long con orchestrated through the Kremlin, and the warning signs were always there but they were too easy to ignore.
NGOs are actively used as fronts for foreign intelligence services, and especially in countries that are being actively contested between great powers.
It's not like they're all charities. They encompass all kinds of shady shit that engage in influence operations, and encourage policies that appear benign but are strategic suicide.
It started like this and then escalated. Now Russian government randomly label people and organizations as foreign agents which greatly limits their freedom. Also, becoming a foreign agent is the first step to become an "extremist"
Could you list some examples of what you're mentioning? I know the US apparently has stricter law in regards to foreign funding than the one implemented in Georgia
>The **Russian foreign agent law** requires anyone who receives support from outside Russia or is under influence from outside Russia to register and declare themselves as [foreign agents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_agent). Once registered, they are subject to additional audits and are obliged to mark all their publications with a 24-word disclaimer saying that they are being distributed by a "foreign agent"
There is a good article on wiki: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian\_foreign\_agent\_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_foreign_agent_law)
"under influence" means that foreign funding is not required. The government decides who is under influence and who is not.
>In February 2024, the State Duma of the Russian Federation adopted a law prohibiting the placement of advertising on the websites of foreign agents, on their blogs, social networks and other platforms. In addition, the new law prohibits advertising of foreign agents themselves.
The law effectively blocks any funding and prohibits any political activity (which is a broad term including almost anything). Punishment for breaking the law - fines, and eventually prison.
Examples: Anti-Corruption Foundation (later designated as an extremist organization), TV Rain (forced to leave Russia), GOLOS. Another example - Yevgeny Stupin, a deputy who was expelled from his party and banned from practicing law. He moved to Armenia because of the threats.
You do know the law *you* referred to is implemented in Russia and has nothing to do with the Georgian one, right? Georgia isn't even mentioned in the Wikipedia article at alll.
Yes. The russian law changed significantly over the years since 2012. Apparently, this is the path the Georgian government chose to follow, but I do not know the exact details about the georgian version.
So you refer to a Russian law in regards to a Georgian about transprency. Do you know the US has a just as strict law?
[Foreign Agents Registration Act | Foreign Agents Registration Act (justice.gov)](https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara#:~:text=FARA%20requires%20certain%20agents%20of,in%20support%20of%20those%20activities.)
"FARA requires certain agents of foreign principals who are engaged in political activities or other activities specified under the statute to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities."
What would be bad, then, about Georgia getting such a law if *both* Russia *and* the US already have it?
If you read the wikipedia article you should know that the Russian law is quite different from the US one. In Russia it is one of the tools to suppress opposition, which is obviously bad.
>What would be bad, then, about Georgia getting such a law if *both* Russia *and* the US already have it?
You better ask a Georgian about that.
I've spent a lot of time in Georgia and discovered two things:
1. The Georgian people want to get far away from Russia
2. The only way Georgia will survive as a country is by appeasing Russia
2009 article, ffs. Rebel provinces funded by russia. What are we even talking about. 2008 war was exactly what they did to Ukraine too. First they move in their citizens, then they pretend like their rights are being violated, then they come to "liberate" these russians.
> 2009 article, ffs.
Ugh, yes, that's when it happened.
>2008 war was exactly what they did to Ukraine too. First they move in their citizens, then they pretend like their rights are being violated, then they come to "liberate" these russians.
No? First off, there are barely any Russians living in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and their numbers fell with every census since around the Soviet collapse. There was no talk of liberation of Russians, you have no idea what you are talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia#Demographics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Abkhazia#cite_ref-17
Secondly, the war started by Georgia shelling and killing OSCE peacekeepers, and that's the EU report that I cited said. Saakashvili was an idiot and acted foolishly.
Unbelievable, the guy is openly admitting that he is a Russian bot and people still upvote him.
The Russian government began handing out passports long before the war began. And the “protection” of these newly acquired citizens was exactly one of the reasons for the start of the war.
I can’t believe that even after Ukraine, people are trying to believe that it was Georgia that attacked Russia. Jesus Christ have mercy.
Короче, проследуй в сторону русского военного корабля.
>Unbelievable, the guy is openly admitting that he is a Russian bot and people still upvote him.
What?
> And the “protection” of these newly acquired citizens was exactly one of the reasons for the start of the war.
10 paragraphs of Medvedev's speech, and he only mentions deaths of Russian citizens in passing once.
kremlin. ru/events/president/transcripts/1222
He then predominantly focuses on tensions between local ethnicities, which have been at war for over a decade, to justify recognition of independence of A. and S-O. How does that compare to Putin's speech at the start of Ukraine war?
>
> On the night of August 8, 2008, Tbilisi made its choice: Saakashvili chose genocide to solve his political problems. In doing so, he has handily dashed all hopes for the peaceful existence of Ossetians, Abkhazians and Georgians in one State. The peoples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia have repeatedly expressed their support for the independence of their republics in referendums. We understand that after what happened in Tskhinvali and what was planned in Abkhazia, they have the right to decide their own fate.
>
> The presidents of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, based on the results of the referendums and the decisions of the republican parliaments, have asked Russia to recognize the state sovereignty of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The Federation Council and the State Duma voted in favor of these appeals.
>
> Based on the current situation, a decision must be taken. Taking into account the free expression of will of the Ossetian and Abkhaz peoples, guided by the provisions of the UN Charter, the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations between States, the 1975 Helsinki Final Act of the CSCE, and other fundamental international documents - I have signed decrees recognizing the independence of South Ossetia and the independence of Abkhazia by the Russian Federation.
----
>I can’t believe that even after Ukraine, people are trying to believe that it was Georgia that attacked Russia. Jesus Christ have mercy.
That's what the EU said, did they not? Why would the Ukraine situation change the established facts?
It's a tough pill to swallow, but Georgia wouldn't be able to resist a full invasion. They don't have anywhere near the population of Ukraine, nor do they have neighbors who would end them $100 billion of weapons. They would fall almost immediately
Given that Russia conquered Georgia before there were no military jets and computers, it doesn't make sense to say they'd fail now.
I understand not that it's not what people want to hear. But Georgia has about 1/50 the population of Russia, a weaker economy, no meaningful allies, and a military that's not even comparable. Plus, its economic elites have close ties with Russia.
If invaded, it would surrender almost immediately.
Not Russia, but Tsarist Empire of Russia, two totally separate things. Also they did it while not having already massive war elsewhere. Modern era warfare favours mountainous warfare way more than warfare back in the tsarist times.
People with fucking muskets, without modern medicine, without proper preservation of food, which then gives advantage to the stronger occupator. Also the way Georgia was annexed was more with diplomatic means than military.
The "strongest military in the world" isn't that strong when they're fighting with both hands tied behind their back by a weak,liberal democratic population. Russia is much better at counter-insurgency because they have no qualms about doing what's necessary to win. The Soviets also lost a war in Afghanistan but they did better than NATO by any metric.
Of course they did. They actually ruled much of the country and their puppet regime lasted for years after they were abandoned. They had far more serious opposition too,the only people that even half-ass supported the Taliban were the ISI. The soviets had them,the west and gulf state's pouring in hundreds of billions.
they actually killed nearly 1 million afghans in 10 years. the government held up for 2 years or so, not more.
it lead to unrest in russia because of how shitty the war was and arguably contributed to the downfall of the ussr.
i believe you had a bit too much kool aid.
Our puppet government didn't even last 2 months. The fact that it was a stupid war also greatly contributed to most of the west being politically impotent today. An entire generation of dipshits think that every conflict is going to be Iraq or Afghanistan and the west's enemies are capitalizing. It's easy to assume the consequences were worse for the Soviets because more time has passed. We're currently dealing with our consequences and it look's bad,to put it mildly.
You were talking about mountains being a problem and I said that they don't have to go over the mountains because they're already inside and can get even more troops in easily without starting an all out war.
Untrue, we tried Appeasing Russia in the 19th century, and then later in the 20th century. Both times we got conquered by Russians for around a century. Our only hope is to find other allies, and we're betting on the West nowadays.
Ukraine is much more important and the west isn't even willing to stomach a minor disruption in living standards. They're so weak they don't even have the political will to let somebody else fight for them. These are not allies you can count on. Truly their options are all shitty because appeasing Russia is pointless and the west isn't going to do anything that matters. Their best bet is to make it as costly for Russia as possible and hope they get distracted by something else. The west clearly isn't going to save Georgia.
I didn't mean to say it will work. Only that opposing Russia will definitely fail.
Georgia was the first country I studied who's geopolitical situation made me say "they're screwed."
really deep analysis here, a bunch of laws in different countries have the same name. the contents of the laws must be exactly the same and enforced in the same way in each place too, ya?
83. Jesus.
Rulling party is 74+9 if wiki don’t lie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Georgia
So literally every single majority parliamentarian has voted in favour?
yeah georgian dream and their satellite party voted one sidedly pro foreign agenst law, opposition either boycotted or voted against
Jesus is much older than that, at least 100 years old
They don’t represent anyone except their wallets
They didn't elect themselves, now, did they? They were voted into office.
The last elections were heavily contested since GD has a pretty strong hold over the central electoral commission and is known to mass bribe the impoverished to vote for them. The turnout was also abysmal since the opposition is in disarray. Regardless, even the core GD voters mostly don’t care about this law, it never had any public support to begin with. Them pressing on with it in face of this much opposition both domestic and from our allies doesn’t represent the will of any constituency.
Long live Sacartvelo! Wish you luck in your endeavours. Don't let corrupt ruling party ruin your future!
Why is there such an extreme difference between people and politicians on the issue?
Because the owner of the ruling party is worth more than a third of the country’s GDP
This is happening in many countries wordwide. Politicians passing controversial laws against the will of the people. People will protest but their governments will pass the law/bill anyway.
[удалено]
Why is it always a Russian user saying this bullshit
So you are saying the majority of georgians actually want to become a russian satellite again? I have doubts, having visited there.
May be they don't mind doing bussiness with Russians? Those who were not born yesterday remember what a mess Saakashvili created
The video and protests being brutally cracked down on outside the building say otherwise... But you know that, you just don't care what the majority think
83/23 is majority
Those who weren’t born yesterday remember Russians bombing our cities and occupying our villages.
It is was because your tie eater was very aggressive
Reread what you wrote and try to imagine if somebody was speaking about your country like that, would you want to be friends with them or not.
Of course, you're absolute right. I never dare thinking for one second that you're russian.
the guy litterally roams russian subreddits, lol
I looked after my comment, just a bet with myself :D They are so obvious \^\_\_\^
did you noticed, that all my comments collapsed by default?
Yeah, most western people dont buy the russian bs and their views on world, comes with first world education, no gulags and not throwing political and buisness opposition out of a window as a standard practice. And not constantly invading your neighbours or infiltrating their politicans to control them. Also a lot of first hand soviet satelite states expierence on this subs, its not false or propaganda, our grandparents are alive and actually lived through this shit to tell us, so dont try your ussr jedi mind tricks that it was all just a lie and western propaganda bs because I literally have a member in the house that remembers communism, my parents remember the fall of communism etc. Look vatnik, am not gonna lie, great panslavic empire ia a good idea, but not if its only a tool for other slavs to be subjects of Russia and not when Russia staright up lies and ommits other slavs history and wrongdoings done by the Russia to them, dont worry, 300 more years and some ass kickings and even you guys will get it, eventually. The fact that your politicans and media started denying you did the Katyn massacre just because our contries are at odds again, even tho we know you did it, you know you did, everyone knows you did it, but you do it to create more idiots in Russia anyway is literally a great example of historical revisionism I am talking about. Hell we even know Kalinin was one of the guys signing the orders with Stalin cause you dipshits gave us the documents, so the name Kaliningrad right next to Polish border is just a delibarate insult... We know shitheads... we know YOU, its not phobia, because it not irrational by any means, and we are ready this time.
Well said.
great panslavic empire ia a good idea. no it isnt.
Empire is a bad word but every single region gained influence by federalisation in the recent history, you wont convince me that w/e the fuck is going on in Balkans is better for those guys in the long run than lets say what Yugoslavia could be. Thats is far and away pipe dream because of how Rusaians, Serbs are acting anyway bit a central/eastern slavic EU could work if we stoppwd trying to sominate each other for a fucking century and started smaller.
Europe is not really in any position to protect Georgia if it cannot even protect Ukraine who is willing to fight. "the west" fucked up by promising these countries NATO membership and then not immediately starting to implement them, and now we are dragging our feets with EU membership too (which also includes defense treaties). So this is just another case of unfortunately neighboring Russia.
From a [2008 article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7328276.stm) regarding NATO denying Georgia and Ukraine membership: “Germany and France had been opposed to putting the two nations on the path to membership, amid concerns voiced by Russia over Nato's eastward expansion.”
well french prime minister from those era build quite a good carrier in russian oil (sibur, zarubezhneft) industry, he may have pretty eyes i guess
What Europe should do now is sanction those 83 MPs and their families. They travel to Europe all year round and then vote for pro-Russian laws.
Sanctioning elected MPs for making a law you don't like? There's a lot of democracy here lol
When the majority of Georgians support the EU but the government is Russian that's not democracy, Georgia is held hostage.
How’s majority supporting EU electing pro-Russian MPs then? Maybe moment was lost when they’ve seen election frauds and did nothing?
Well as you well know if you do enough things that Russia doesn't like Russia will try to kill you. Georgia doesn't have enough manpower to and of course Georgia will get no support from anyone if Russia decides to invade or bomb Georgia since Georgia can't secure it's airspace. If they rigged the elections they are doing it so with the knowledge that if anyone says anything they can threaten them with the russian invasion. That's the misfortune of anyone who happens to border that shitstain of a country (unless of course you're lucky enough to be part of NATO).
The law will turn Georgia into a dictatorship shithole like Russia and Belarus.
It's war. Free world against Authoritarianism. You're either with us or them.
So why still buying russian oil. Stfu
Hahaha. I'm not, I'm protesting in front of my parliament. Your bosses are a remnant of a dying empire, get used to it comrade. You're on the losing side.
Those MPs arent elected by anyone in the EU, so EU blocking them has nothing to do with democracy.
That’s not what democracy is about, lol.
That's awful news. What russia cannot have with brute force, they have by meddling the politics of other countries.
> That's awful news. What russia cannot have with brute force, they have by meddling the politics of other countries. True but other way around. Meddling fails, army enterns the picture.
and what does Russia have to do with it?
Your country invaded Georgia in 2008, accusing Georgia of committing genocide. (Seams the leit motiv of your country to invade peaceful neighbours) Your country is occupying 20% of Georgian territory: what has russia do to with it? Take a wild guess, Sherlockovich.
It's a Russian law
Why? because it is similar to Russian law? what's bad about it? Why is it normal for the USA and Russia to have such a law, but bad for Georgia? Do Georgians not deserve to know about external influences in their country or what?
Russia is more than external influence, it's evil trash influence
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They're not answering you because they have no reply, the west is massively hypocritical on this issue they are essentially saying they have a God given right to psyop the Georgian people
The influence is a fair game tbh, the questions are, how those 83 came into power, who's behind them, how to make them change allegiance, replace or bring new, again with soft influence but then ensure new power has means to protect itself militarily or draw such lucrative contracts with Russia that it's bad business for them to invade.
The government here is bought and paid for by the Russian oligarchy. Ivanishvili and his goons are a poison.
> The government here is bought and paid for Doesn't this mean they would need to register and face restrictions under this law? So why would they be pushing it?
You don’t need to register if there’s no paper trail of your bribes.
Exactly this, the Russian money is laundered through the Georgian national oligarch in control of the ruling party in their pocket, Ivanishvili, holding a third of the country's GDP and more than the state budget in wealth.
> if there’s no paper trail How do you know then? Did you witness them taking the cash? Without proof this is just slander.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and explain the situation. Bidzina Ivanishvili made his money in Russia as an oligarch and then came back to Georgia. He founded the ruling party, Georgian Dream, and became prime minister after the dramatic downfall of the UNM, another party. BI has since used his power to kill programs that would harm him, like the Anaklia port project(as revealed in the Panama papers) and passing another recent law allowing Georgia to be used to house offshore funds- which benefits only him and his oligarch buddies. He will also remove ministers who oppose him, as he did with Giorgi Gakharia and very likely the prime minister who just resigned, Garibashvili. 80% of the population wants to join the EU. Isn’t it odd that their elected officials seem to be doing everything to do the opposite?
>BI has since used his power to kill programs that would harm him, like the Anaklia port project Killing it doesn't just benefit him, it benefits Russia through restricting trade and potential military assistance from the EU to the Caucasus, keeping them dependent on good relations with their oppressor.
Lololol you think this money is on the books? It’s bribes, dude.
hundreds of thousands of russians who fled to georgia are in disbelief and are looking for the next country to flee to
I bet they don't. They're happy to keep working remotely and not being at the front line. Just waiting to get back to Moscow once Russia won the war.
Russians are not all the same, I bet there those who just want to dodge draft and others who are horrified what their country has turned into.
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Oh yeah they're just dying to get back to the Motherland whose officials keep calling them traitors and bit by bit introduce measures to screw them over. Where the fuck does the "they're not anti-war actually" bullshit come from
Probably by their actions: facts speak more than thousand words.
Well, the ones who stay in Georgia learn the language, try to integrate, And some even help Ukrainian volunteer support organizations. And there's been some polling of the new emigrant populations in Armenia and Georgia and they show majority opposition to Putin and the war. It's just that no one talks about it, so Western redditors default to the "booo they all love Putin and actually like the war, they're fifth column evil", as if this emigration wave is the same who left Russia in the 90s
If only 1% of russians decides to act and clean their mess, the entire World would have been a better place. 1% = 1.440.000 people. Problem is that the spoiled kids of st.petersburg and moscow can't care the less, knowing that the wars will be fought by the ethic minorities, that join the army because of the lack of jobs. Do you want me to share the comments of your countrymen they did after a russian murdered two Ukrainians in Germany? Have you see how many "Poor russians are so against the war" were visiting the seized Western equipment in show for the "patriotic" war? Most, not all, of course, but most of the russians are yes against the war, in the meaning of not getting killed in Ukraine, but happy that "their guys" are slaughtering Ukrainians. On a side note, I am a living person and I use reddit.
I was talking about Russians in Georgia though. Not the...people living comments online (which can't be sociologically representative of anything by any definition, even if you assume that they're all real and none of them are generated by Kremlin bot farms). That's not even to mention the asinine "just go out and protest lol" attitude you bring up. There's more to overthrowing dictatorships than that.
Well, it will be much easier for russia to occupy Georgia, given it is already full of russians.
From what I've been reading, it's been kind of a thing for the few months/last year already? At least there's been reports of Georgia denying residency permits to Russians much more often than usual, and also denying re-entry to some who've already settled in the country (making "visa runs" potentially dangerous) Also I remember at least one case of a Russian activist fleeing to Georgia being denied entry and being essentially forced to return to Russia, but I'm not sure
Yea, no shit. The government is full of Russia collaborators.
I live in Thailand and know several Russians who have fled and work remotely. They are ashamed of their government, the war and the total power given to military and police. Russia is an authoritarian regime without any questions at this point, many Russians know this and want change.
So now report all the moscow sponsored organizations as foreign agents, starting with Georgian Dream. Two can play that game.
No, two cannot play that game. The law will obviously never be applied to Russian agents.
>Two can play the game Not really, if it go russian way as it do now police will just find nothing, and since your surname and name will be in report, you know who will face issues after reporting important politicans to his lapdogs, you just put yourself in vulnerable position when one party abuse majority like united russia (which probably georgian dream role model) even shaggy defence will be enough for "their people" if someone catch them red handed
Russian money isn't out in the open, it's all under the table.
> Two can play that game. Yes. And yet, the protest are seen as explicitly pro-western. Which makes it look like pro-western factions are so much more dependent on foreign funding and do not want this to become public knowledge.
> Which makes it look like pro-western factions are so much more dependent on foreign funding and do not want this to become public knowledge. Because KGB does not ask for invoices for the money they spend.
> invoices for the money they spend. Why should *any* politician need to receive money from abroad? Perhaps pro-Russian ones are as corrupt as some people here suggest. Does this make it OK for other politicians to be on US payroll? Even if invoiced properly, this is still nothing but selling own country to foreign interests.
The law is not limited to politicians,. If you are a YouTuber so get money from Google you are now labeled a "foreign agent" . Same for NGOs that receive donations from outside. Where KGB actions are not limited to politicians also, they paid people to paint nazi symbols in France, paid people to go and protest for pro-Ruzzia, paid people to start violence in protests etc. Politicians sure, they should disclose when they get paid by Putin or anyone else.
> If you are a YouTuber That depends on what kind of YouTuber you are. If your channel deals with gaming or gardening nobody would care either way. But if you are doing political commentary, your listeners deserve to know who is paying for the music. > Politicians sure, they should disclose when they get paid by Putin or anyone else. Yes. But not just politicians in the sense of elected representatives or government officials. Anyone who is trying to influence the public should disclose his source of funding, including parties, NGOs, journalists, activists, and even YouTubers, if they engage in politics in any capacity.
And your point is that Georgians are brainwashed by the gay, liberal west to hate their good brothers Ruzzians and protest the Ruzzian law? Or why are they protesting and why are the pro-Ruz party so hard pushing for this?
> the Ruzzian law? So why do the US have the same law on the books since 1938? Will you blame Russians for that too?
Ask Georgians why they are protesting against the Ruzzian law, I am not from there, there is no reason me repeating what I read from them, in fact you can scroll and read what Georgians say here and ask them. Nothing inspired from Ruzzia is good, now gay people and chess masters are labeled extremists/terrorists in Ruzzia. I just fixed your misinformation and added some details on how KGB, now renamed to FSB operates.
I feel so bad for these people. Imagine seeing Ukraine and then seeing the walls of the Western world closing, a giant steel wall rising with a forcefield around it. The Western world is already in a defensive posture. Entering the West will become more and more difficult as our countries consolidates what we have and bolsters our defenses with existing countries. Those outside the walls of the west will be eaten by wolves aka China/Russia/Iran, etc and if they are allowed in later, they will be nothing more than a buffer. That's super dangerous, thats how countries have proxy wars where death and destruction is guaranteed. And yes, I'm fun at partys. These people are saying "No, we want democracy, we want western ideology, we are willing to fight for our freedom!" And Russias corrupt puppets are saying "thats cute."
Tbh, ukrainian men is already shuttered outside of West. We basically can't leave the country and our one and only legal option is go to fields and die. And Poland's minister of defence is pushing the law about deportation ukrainian male refugees back to Ukraine which is also fucked up.
They shut the door to the EU, choosing sides with dictatorial Russia instead. Eurovision performances will no doubt be pulled too.
And there goes Georgia’s dreams of EU membership..
Idk why Georgia likes to lick Putin's boots after what Putin did to Georgia.
Money and power for a few.
Maidan 2.0 incoming?
I bet nobody tried to look past the headline here... There's nothing wrong with Foreign Agency Registration Act in the US , but there's something wrong with this particular law of the same nature. For those who say that this law is based on Russian law -- you'd be disappointed, because Russian procedure of appointment somebody/ some organisation as a Foreign Agent IS NOT TRANSPARENT AT ALL, while Georgian law actually has a key principle which makes a person or organization a Foreign Agent. The key factor is, if 20%+ of your finances come from another country, then you might be appointed as a Foreign Agent. This law in fact allows to fight all the influence, whether it is the Russian, European or American.
ok but what's actually wrong with the bill beyond it being russian influence companies having to disclose foreign funding sounds pretty great
It’s an important step to introduce sanctions against these „foreign sanctioned companies“. It never stops with the label.
This law is the first step to dictatorship and one away for joining the Union.
Why is Gergian government acting as Russian puppet?
Because in short, the reason they're in power is Russian money.
Ok, the reason is trivial
Do you realize that Georgia is quite negative towards Russia? They even had military exercises with USA last year. Now they are Russian puppet because they adopt law that US had for decades? It seems to me that USA is just salty they will have harder time meddling in matters of sovereign country.
Good day for transparency in Georgia. Everyone complaining is just salty cuz they cant influence Georgian internal politics. Rules based world order: Rules for thee, not for me.
What exactly is bad about this law? It simply requires internal actors to explicitly state who is funding the, no? How is this a Russian law?
The law that the government is trying to pass is fully endorsed by the Russian government. It will label any NGO receiving funding from foreign country as a foreign agent (this includes media, charities, think tanks, aid programs). the oligarch in charge and the leader (owner) of the governing party (who got all his wealth in Russia) very publicly stated he would crack down on “NGO foreign agents undermining our sovereignty.” The government rhetoric is also extremely vocally anti west, specifically using the wording “west is undermining our sovereignty”. This government needs to go.
Why? Is it bad to not want, or rather have them explicitly state, funding to local media outlets? Why does Georgia *needs* to have these things you listed?
1. NGOs are already transparent with their funding. 2. Did you read the point about suppression? This is purely legal means of suppressing independent organizations and media. That’s sort of the whole thing.
NGOs are usually the ones funding the media outlets. I can't see how basic transparency translates into suppression. Let's say someone is one hundred percent funded by foreign NGOs - isn't it fair to label them as being "foreign" or "completely foreign funded"?
The owner of the government explicitly stating he will use this law to go after the NGOs and the opposition translates into suppression quite directly
Who "owns" the Georgian government? Is it a private institution? If foreign NGOs are the ones doing all funding I see no problem with someone addressing them specifically. What you're really saying make it seem like the opposition want to hide who is funding them. It really stops being a natural opposition, within the framework of the given nation, when it's largely or fully funded by outside foreign actors. What is US media all of sudden started beocming predominantly funded by Russian or Chinese NGOs - wouldn't it be fair if the US government proclaimed all outlets need to be transaprent about who is funding them? I even believe, last thing I know, it already is like this in the US
https://www.forbes.com/sites/juliaioffe/2012/03/07/nobody-is-bigger-than-bidzina/ This guy owns it through Russian money, which of course would be exempt by this law because he himself is a Georgian national and neither an NGO or a media company.
A Forbes article from 2012 about a current happening in a totally different geopolitical landscape in 2024. Marvelous.
The man is still there, funding and directing his party, the only thing that has changed in that regard is that he took a brief break from working in the limelight until now and the inevitable fluctuations in the size of the Georgian economy relative to Ivanishvili's wealth. You can't have much of a discussion on Georgian politics today without the context of the 2012 election coming up along with Georgian Dream's road to power and the empty promises made during the following decade. This is not the pro-EU party it promused to be, but a long con orchestrated through the Kremlin, and the warning signs were always there but they were too easy to ignore.
NGOs are actively used as fronts for foreign intelligence services, and especially in countries that are being actively contested between great powers. It's not like they're all charities. They encompass all kinds of shady shit that engage in influence operations, and encourage policies that appear benign but are strategic suicide.
Because it is the same method Russia uses to persecute journalists in Russia.
How does journalists having to explicitly state who is funding them relate to persecution?
It started like this and then escalated. Now Russian government randomly label people and organizations as foreign agents which greatly limits their freedom. Also, becoming a foreign agent is the first step to become an "extremist"
Could you list some examples of what you're mentioning? I know the US apparently has stricter law in regards to foreign funding than the one implemented in Georgia
>The **Russian foreign agent law** requires anyone who receives support from outside Russia or is under influence from outside Russia to register and declare themselves as [foreign agents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_agent). Once registered, they are subject to additional audits and are obliged to mark all their publications with a 24-word disclaimer saying that they are being distributed by a "foreign agent" There is a good article on wiki: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian\_foreign\_agent\_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_foreign_agent_law) "under influence" means that foreign funding is not required. The government decides who is under influence and who is not. >In February 2024, the State Duma of the Russian Federation adopted a law prohibiting the placement of advertising on the websites of foreign agents, on their blogs, social networks and other platforms. In addition, the new law prohibits advertising of foreign agents themselves. The law effectively blocks any funding and prohibits any political activity (which is a broad term including almost anything). Punishment for breaking the law - fines, and eventually prison. Examples: Anti-Corruption Foundation (later designated as an extremist organization), TV Rain (forced to leave Russia), GOLOS. Another example - Yevgeny Stupin, a deputy who was expelled from his party and banned from practicing law. He moved to Armenia because of the threats.
You do know the law *you* referred to is implemented in Russia and has nothing to do with the Georgian one, right? Georgia isn't even mentioned in the Wikipedia article at alll.
Yes. The russian law changed significantly over the years since 2012. Apparently, this is the path the Georgian government chose to follow, but I do not know the exact details about the georgian version.
So you refer to a Russian law in regards to a Georgian about transprency. Do you know the US has a just as strict law? [Foreign Agents Registration Act | Foreign Agents Registration Act (justice.gov)](https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara#:~:text=FARA%20requires%20certain%20agents%20of,in%20support%20of%20those%20activities.) "FARA requires certain agents of foreign principals who are engaged in political activities or other activities specified under the statute to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities." What would be bad, then, about Georgia getting such a law if *both* Russia *and* the US already have it?
If you read the wikipedia article you should know that the Russian law is quite different from the US one. In Russia it is one of the tools to suppress opposition, which is obviously bad. >What would be bad, then, about Georgia getting such a law if *both* Russia *and* the US already have it? You better ask a Georgian about that.
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[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEq7xOve61c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEq7xOve61c) Here is explained LIM5.
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Muh MuRIcA
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11? I thought it was less than a week! Gees, time flies. See ya, Mr whatabouty!
Why the downvotes? He asked a genuine question.
I've spent a lot of time in Georgia and discovered two things: 1. The Georgian people want to get far away from Russia 2. The only way Georgia will survive as a country is by appeasing Russia
2nd didn't really worked in 2008.
They appeased Russia [by starting a war against Russia](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58T4MO/)? Makes no fucking sense.
2009 article, ffs. Rebel provinces funded by russia. What are we even talking about. 2008 war was exactly what they did to Ukraine too. First they move in their citizens, then they pretend like their rights are being violated, then they come to "liberate" these russians.
> 2009 article, ffs. Ugh, yes, that's when it happened. >2008 war was exactly what they did to Ukraine too. First they move in their citizens, then they pretend like their rights are being violated, then they come to "liberate" these russians. No? First off, there are barely any Russians living in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and their numbers fell with every census since around the Soviet collapse. There was no talk of liberation of Russians, you have no idea what you are talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Abkhazia#cite_ref-17 Secondly, the war started by Georgia shelling and killing OSCE peacekeepers, and that's the EU report that I cited said. Saakashvili was an idiot and acted foolishly.
Unbelievable, the guy is openly admitting that he is a Russian bot and people still upvote him. The Russian government began handing out passports long before the war began. And the “protection” of these newly acquired citizens was exactly one of the reasons for the start of the war. I can’t believe that even after Ukraine, people are trying to believe that it was Georgia that attacked Russia. Jesus Christ have mercy. Короче, проследуй в сторону русского военного корабля.
russians are shameless. They brigade this post like there's no tomorrow.
>Unbelievable, the guy is openly admitting that he is a Russian bot and people still upvote him. What? > And the “protection” of these newly acquired citizens was exactly one of the reasons for the start of the war. 10 paragraphs of Medvedev's speech, and he only mentions deaths of Russian citizens in passing once. kremlin. ru/events/president/transcripts/1222 He then predominantly focuses on tensions between local ethnicities, which have been at war for over a decade, to justify recognition of independence of A. and S-O. How does that compare to Putin's speech at the start of Ukraine war? > > On the night of August 8, 2008, Tbilisi made its choice: Saakashvili chose genocide to solve his political problems. In doing so, he has handily dashed all hopes for the peaceful existence of Ossetians, Abkhazians and Georgians in one State. The peoples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia have repeatedly expressed their support for the independence of their republics in referendums. We understand that after what happened in Tskhinvali and what was planned in Abkhazia, they have the right to decide their own fate. > > The presidents of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, based on the results of the referendums and the decisions of the republican parliaments, have asked Russia to recognize the state sovereignty of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The Federation Council and the State Duma voted in favor of these appeals. > > Based on the current situation, a decision must be taken. Taking into account the free expression of will of the Ossetian and Abkhaz peoples, guided by the provisions of the UN Charter, the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations between States, the 1975 Helsinki Final Act of the CSCE, and other fundamental international documents - I have signed decrees recognizing the independence of South Ossetia and the independence of Abkhazia by the Russian Federation. ---- >I can’t believe that even after Ukraine, people are trying to believe that it was Georgia that attacked Russia. Jesus Christ have mercy. That's what the EU said, did they not? Why would the Ukraine situation change the established facts?
It's a tough pill to swallow, but Georgia wouldn't be able to resist a full invasion. They don't have anywhere near the population of Ukraine, nor do they have neighbors who would end them $100 billion of weapons. They would fall almost immediately
Mountainous warfare is extremely hard to do and favours the insurgency. Ask the strongest military in the world how it went.
Given that Russia conquered Georgia before there were no military jets and computers, it doesn't make sense to say they'd fail now. I understand not that it's not what people want to hear. But Georgia has about 1/50 the population of Russia, a weaker economy, no meaningful allies, and a military that's not even comparable. Plus, its economic elites have close ties with Russia. If invaded, it would surrender almost immediately.
Not Russia, but Tsarist Empire of Russia, two totally separate things. Also they did it while not having already massive war elsewhere. Modern era warfare favours mountainous warfare way more than warfare back in the tsarist times.
So people riding horses conquered the country, but you somehow believe it's landscape makes it impenetrable?
People with fucking muskets, without modern medicine, without proper preservation of food, which then gives advantage to the stronger occupator. Also the way Georgia was annexed was more with diplomatic means than military.
The "strongest military in the world" isn't that strong when they're fighting with both hands tied behind their back by a weak,liberal democratic population. Russia is much better at counter-insurgency because they have no qualms about doing what's necessary to win. The Soviets also lost a war in Afghanistan but they did better than NATO by any metric.
the soviets did better in afghanistan than the us? you must be shrooming.
Of course they did. They actually ruled much of the country and their puppet regime lasted for years after they were abandoned. They had far more serious opposition too,the only people that even half-ass supported the Taliban were the ISI. The soviets had them,the west and gulf state's pouring in hundreds of billions.
they actually killed nearly 1 million afghans in 10 years. the government held up for 2 years or so, not more. it lead to unrest in russia because of how shitty the war was and arguably contributed to the downfall of the ussr. i believe you had a bit too much kool aid.
Our puppet government didn't even last 2 months. The fact that it was a stupid war also greatly contributed to most of the west being politically impotent today. An entire generation of dipshits think that every conflict is going to be Iraq or Afghanistan and the west's enemies are capitalizing. It's easy to assume the consequences were worse for the Soviets because more time has passed. We're currently dealing with our consequences and it look's bad,to put it mildly.
Russia has already had troops in the occupied territories inside Georgia since 2008.
We're talking about occupation of entire Georgia, not just occupied teritotires.
You were talking about mountains being a problem and I said that they don't have to go over the mountains because they're already inside and can get even more troops in easily without starting an all out war.
Russia would roll over Georgia. It's like people forgot Russia has already done it to Georgia in the very recent past.
By diplomatic means?
They could resist it if Europe and the US would grow a fucking spine
And do what? Station tens of thousands of soldiers in Georgia, along with some nukes? Sounds like a nice way to start WW3
Unconditional material support would be a start
So a blank check to a country that pays no taxes to our government?
Live in your Russian prison forever. They’ll box Europe and the US in by chipping away at the frontier.
Open a third front in Georgia sounds a great plan.
Untrue, we tried Appeasing Russia in the 19th century, and then later in the 20th century. Both times we got conquered by Russians for around a century. Our only hope is to find other allies, and we're betting on the West nowadays.
Ukraine is much more important and the west isn't even willing to stomach a minor disruption in living standards. They're so weak they don't even have the political will to let somebody else fight for them. These are not allies you can count on. Truly their options are all shitty because appeasing Russia is pointless and the west isn't going to do anything that matters. Their best bet is to make it as costly for Russia as possible and hope they get distracted by something else. The west clearly isn't going to save Georgia.
I didn't mean to say it will work. Only that opposing Russia will definitely fail. Georgia was the first country I studied who's geopolitical situation made me say "they're screwed."
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really deep analysis here, a bunch of laws in different countries have the same name. the contents of the laws must be exactly the same and enforced in the same way in each place too, ya?