Ok, another story about 'Bad Putin - good Russians'. But the fact is that most Russians are sick with revanchism and support Russia war against Ukraine.
Hate to point out the obvious, but most Russians are in the same ideological media-space. Not remotely true for Muslims, who much like Christianity have very different denominations. It'd be like saying Europeans think like Russians because we all used to be Christians.
Another comment about "All russians are baddies". I'm russian and most of my relatives and friends against this war. And a lot people I meet are just afraid to say or do something against policy of our government. I luckily didn't go to the jail after mass protests
Thank you for risking that, sincerely.
From the outside though, it very much looks like the average Russian is happy with the imperialist actions of Putins government and is somewhat supportive of the goals. Revanchism is a dangerous disease.
It is true that too many people are happy with Russian imperialism, our society is beyond fucked and it's obvious, but there are still a lot of people who do not support this shit. And I think there are much more than you think. But you won't hear about them, unless they are that type of people who will sacrifice their life or freedom for a chance of improvement, sometimes for nothing
If a critical mass were willing then I guess we would have more sympathy. This is what we hoped when the war first broke out, but after the initial protests everything just kind of stopped. I'm not ignoring the fact that people are scared, but my real sympathy is with the Ukrainians who have faced omnipresent threat of violent death from above for more than 2 years.
There is no critical mass because you have not grow that mass in 2000 where Russia was pro-Europe in general.
The fact is: Russian euro integration suggested Russia to be big Romania rather than second Germany or second Italy at least. That is why big percentage of Russian are not supported it and so no any critical mass today.
I once heard the problem was that a lot of people just don't care about politics. That they distance themselves from it all not out of fear or malice, but just going with the flow.
That's what I've heard, at least.
You won't see reality until Russia becomes democratic. Yes, too much people are silent, but you won't ever know how many of them are actually stupid and don't care, and how many just gave up, how many are afraid to do anything.
So what did you do to stop your country from committing the largest war crime since WWII? Did you walk with white ribbon? Or did you came to Putin's "election" at noon? That must be so brave to do so while you keep paying taxes spent to kill me and my family.
largest in europe*
There were quite a lot of gruesome events between ww2 and now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide
That's just the ones that came to my mind immediately.
There are 140 million of you. If a majority truly didn’t want this, then it wouldn’t be happening. Russia’s actions and behaviour tell us all we need to know.
To be fair, that's not how control dynamics work. If a populace's will was a true determining factor, that many thousands of years of human history would not exist. The only thing that really matters is who has the weapons and the favor of the people with those weapons.
There are literally countless examples of massive (and either comparatively ill-armed or outright unarmed) populations being controlled by a much, much smaller group. Ethiopia, Iran, Eritrea, North Korea, Congo, Niger, Syria, Mali, Sudan, Myanmar, Yemen, China, Senegal, Afghanistan, etc. You could even throw in the massive swathes of land controlled by the drug cartels across Latin America, especially places like Mexico, Colombia and (until somewhat recently) El Salvador. Do you think the majority of the people living there wanted their countries torn apart by warlords and dictators, or to be forced to flee their own homes or die?
At the end of the day, if respect for rule of law is supplanted by might makes right, then the vehicle for change becomes force. And when weapons mean power, the simple fact is that without power (weapons), you can change (force) nothing. Russia's domestic situation isn't unique to Russians. If anything, it's probably more common across the world than not.
That's not how it works. 1 person with a gun can control hundreds. 1 person with a whole fucking army of police, with corrupt law and years of propaganda control the whole country. If it would've worked like this, there wouldn't be billionaires and people wouldn't starve. The thing is, the whole fucking nation can't do anything against a few thousands of people
this is pathetic. Three teenagers burned relay box on railroad and stopped a train with munitions. They are jailed, and no one came to support them. If thousands of Russians did the same, the war would be over already.
Russians are just ok with the war. Some of them don't like to be blamed, but en masse they don't mind it.
There are multiple videos of 10+ protesters running away from one cop, who isn't even brandishing a weapon.
But then again, Maidan did not happen, nobody died there and everything will be fine if you sit just looking enough, silently, in your home.
Yes and it's not because behind that one cop there there are dozens of other who will beat the shit of of them. And it's not like maidan is one example of of almost all other failed, that would've failed itself in different conditions. None of that. Actually, I'll listen to your advice man. I'm gonna go rn and beat some cop or something, will update if Putin's regime falls
Do show us the videos. We'll be happy with the outcome either way.
On a more serious note, yes, if you and a number of your totally-against-putin-but-will-never-show-that-publically friends went out and beat a few cops, torched a few police stations, you know, like some actually did some time ago, now THAT, that would help topple the regime.
But keep deluding yourself that nothing works, everything is helpless and you just need to sit still and wait. After all, it's not your city being leveled by bombardments, just some Kharkiv or something. You? You have time!
Yes that's totally how it works lol. Just like that Putin's regime will crumble. Honestly you can come and show us. Or you don't care, because it's just some Kharkiv getting bombed and not your city? Classic totally-dont-support-putin-but-will-only-be-annoying-online
If almost all Russians are in favor of starting a war against Ukraine in order to take territory from a foreign country, how does that answer about your question about how most Russians support Russias war against Ukraine?
Seems like I am wasting my time here if you don't see that
They are just ordinary people. They did not understand (and still do not really understand) the consequences of such actions. In 2014, I was shocked at how fun and enthusiastically the "joining" of the peninsula was received. This was not perceived as the beginning of a war, or any military conflict at all.
Reality. What, you want a fucking graph that shows the obvious? Make it yourself.
The vast, overwhelming, majority of Russians either outright support the war or couldn’t care less about it. If you can’t recognize that I suggest you mingle a bit.
I wouldn't argue that it's the majority, but 60% and 90% are very different. There is no actual source that may prove one or another is true and if you judge that 100% support the war because there is no revolution, please shut up
Maybe it’ll matter to Russians. For anyone else it won’t matter. Russia will not have normal relations with their neighbours within our lifetimes. In fact, I hope relations never normalize because it will inevitably end with Russia taking advantage and reminding everyone of who they are and what they do.
What is this comment about? That you don't support the war? Neither do I. We were talking about different things but you keep pushing how much do you hate putin
What is an "action" in you head? Beat a policeman, change nothing and go to jail? Sorry, I'm not brave enough to sacrifice my freedom or even life for nothing
If you consider resisting ruscism as "nothing" - please, shut up. Your "police" is raping elders and kidnapping Ukrainian kids in Ukrainian Donbass and Crimea using your taxes to sponsor it.
It's not a question whether it 60% or 90%. It's a question of what remaining 40% or 10% are up to.
There's a tiny fraction of Russian, like 0.01% (i.e. less than 15 thousands) who actively resist the war. They fight against the regime with weapon, burn military and FSB facilities, or undermine usurpator army in other ways. The rest are silent supporters of the war crimes their country commits.
I stopped caring about it years ago, even before 2022. It was quite clear already then that this WW2 obsession was turning into a fascist frenzy that will eventually be used to justify something atrocious.
Putin and Xi keep telling everyone left and right that a Golden Era is right around the corner and a long shift in the weight of the world is about to come. They sell this kool aid to the masses too but especially to eachother, other world leaders and the elite.
This is like the End of Days with religious radicals.. 10 years from now, just wait! 10 years comes.. 10 years from now!
If the West works together as a unit, Russia will become another North Korea. They already threaten with nukes, wont change much except a pariah. 90% of all trade is done through a company in Belgium, nearly 90% of all currency is USD.. the next largest ones are all Western except Chinas currency.. either way, about 96% of the worlds currency is in Western currency.
If Russians are able to push through Ukrainian lines, you'll see very hard hitting sanctions. The further they move, the harder they'll get until its an absolute blackout like NK.
He tried to save Russia, lets hope he's destroyed it.. otherwise we'll be the ones destroyed.
The shift in the weight of the world has already happened. The world order of the 90's and early 2000's is long gone. This doesn't mean its gonna be a golden era for anyone involved though. Just a new "reality" when it comes to foreign relations, domestic politica , economy and espionage.
>If Russians are able to push through Ukrainian lines, you'll see very hard hitting sanctions. The further they move, the harder they'll get until its an absolute blackout like NK.
Man this is a ridiculous take and we need to stop with it, really.
We've seen that Western sanctions work shit, except that they damage our own economies. This line - "very hard hitting sanctions" - has been said for years now it it obviously does not work. We exhausted ourselves already and lastingly damaged our (financial) trustworthiness for emerging and non-western economies with certain measures. Russia's GDP is growing, our competitors get cheap natural resources (oil and gas especially) while we buy them second hand at a mark up so to say. Our industries are falling behind and shrinking.
Russian influence in Asia, Africa and South America is growing meanwhile, while e.g. France is thrown out of Africa. That is the opposite of a blackout.
Let us please not deceive ourselves here in false grandeur. It's a deceptive take and will only further damage our own interests.
Great counter-argument to the points I brought forward..
Also, seems quite apparent that the GDP is not the best measure to evaluate a state's overall economic strength right?
I wasn’t the one who brought up GDP.
But the fact is, sanctions do work. Every moment wasted finding loopholes and any small amount spent on extra shipping are time&money not spent on Russia’s main goal. It all adds up.
Wonder how other former Soviet citizens feel that a fellow republic uses this day to promote war against them, Ukrainians and Georgians, and whoever else is next.
The irony that Nazi organizations like Rusich, Wagner under the Fascist state of Russia attacks Ukraine, headed by a jewish president, under the pretense of fighting nazis is just so thick you almost cant believe it.
They have just copied "Lebensraum im Osten" into a "Ruskie mir" and renamed "aryan race" to "ruskies" and "untermensch" to "artificially created by Lenin".
Ok, another story about 'Bad Putin - good Russians'. But the fact is that most Russians are sick with revanchism and support Russia war against Ukraine.
99.99% of russians make the other 0.01% look bad
Bro… Imagine me saying this about muslims
There's nothing to imagine, most Muslims hold pretty terrible views towards lgbtq+ people, Jews, women, etc.
Hate to point out the obvious, but most Russians are in the same ideological media-space. Not remotely true for Muslims, who much like Christianity have very different denominations. It'd be like saying Europeans think like Russians because we all used to be Christians.
Another comment about "All russians are baddies". I'm russian and most of my relatives and friends against this war. And a lot people I meet are just afraid to say or do something against policy of our government. I luckily didn't go to the jail after mass protests
Thank you for risking that, sincerely. From the outside though, it very much looks like the average Russian is happy with the imperialist actions of Putins government and is somewhat supportive of the goals. Revanchism is a dangerous disease.
It is true that too many people are happy with Russian imperialism, our society is beyond fucked and it's obvious, but there are still a lot of people who do not support this shit. And I think there are much more than you think. But you won't hear about them, unless they are that type of people who will sacrifice their life or freedom for a chance of improvement, sometimes for nothing
If a critical mass were willing then I guess we would have more sympathy. This is what we hoped when the war first broke out, but after the initial protests everything just kind of stopped. I'm not ignoring the fact that people are scared, but my real sympathy is with the Ukrainians who have faced omnipresent threat of violent death from above for more than 2 years.
There is no critical mass because you have not grow that mass in 2000 where Russia was pro-Europe in general. The fact is: Russian euro integration suggested Russia to be big Romania rather than second Germany or second Italy at least. That is why big percentage of Russian are not supported it and so no any critical mass today.
I once heard the problem was that a lot of people just don't care about politics. That they distance themselves from it all not out of fear or malice, but just going with the flow. That's what I've heard, at least.
You won't see reality until Russia becomes democratic. Yes, too much people are silent, but you won't ever know how many of them are actually stupid and don't care, and how many just gave up, how many are afraid to do anything.
"just gave up"/"afraid to do anything" is functionally the same as stupid/genocidal. There is no meaningful difference on the outside
What did you expect? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German
So what did you do to stop your country from committing the largest war crime since WWII? Did you walk with white ribbon? Or did you came to Putin's "election" at noon? That must be so brave to do so while you keep paying taxes spent to kill me and my family.
largest in europe* There were quite a lot of gruesome events between ww2 and now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide That's just the ones that came to my mind immediately.
You're right, I should have clearly stated it the largest **Russian** war crime since WWII.
There are 140 million of you. If a majority truly didn’t want this, then it wouldn’t be happening. Russia’s actions and behaviour tell us all we need to know.
To be fair, that's not how control dynamics work. If a populace's will was a true determining factor, that many thousands of years of human history would not exist. The only thing that really matters is who has the weapons and the favor of the people with those weapons. There are literally countless examples of massive (and either comparatively ill-armed or outright unarmed) populations being controlled by a much, much smaller group. Ethiopia, Iran, Eritrea, North Korea, Congo, Niger, Syria, Mali, Sudan, Myanmar, Yemen, China, Senegal, Afghanistan, etc. You could even throw in the massive swathes of land controlled by the drug cartels across Latin America, especially places like Mexico, Colombia and (until somewhat recently) El Salvador. Do you think the majority of the people living there wanted their countries torn apart by warlords and dictators, or to be forced to flee their own homes or die? At the end of the day, if respect for rule of law is supplanted by might makes right, then the vehicle for change becomes force. And when weapons mean power, the simple fact is that without power (weapons), you can change (force) nothing. Russia's domestic situation isn't unique to Russians. If anything, it's probably more common across the world than not.
The difference is what they inflict on others and the glee they do it with. It is a thoroughly flawed and broken society.
That's not how it works. 1 person with a gun can control hundreds. 1 person with a whole fucking army of police, with corrupt law and years of propaganda control the whole country. If it would've worked like this, there wouldn't be billionaires and people wouldn't starve. The thing is, the whole fucking nation can't do anything against a few thousands of people
this is pathetic. Three teenagers burned relay box on railroad and stopped a train with munitions. They are jailed, and no one came to support them. If thousands of Russians did the same, the war would be over already. Russians are just ok with the war. Some of them don't like to be blamed, but en masse they don't mind it.
There are multiple videos of 10+ protesters running away from one cop, who isn't even brandishing a weapon. But then again, Maidan did not happen, nobody died there and everything will be fine if you sit just looking enough, silently, in your home.
Yes and it's not because behind that one cop there there are dozens of other who will beat the shit of of them. And it's not like maidan is one example of of almost all other failed, that would've failed itself in different conditions. None of that. Actually, I'll listen to your advice man. I'm gonna go rn and beat some cop or something, will update if Putin's regime falls
Do show us the videos. We'll be happy with the outcome either way. On a more serious note, yes, if you and a number of your totally-against-putin-but-will-never-show-that-publically friends went out and beat a few cops, torched a few police stations, you know, like some actually did some time ago, now THAT, that would help topple the regime. But keep deluding yourself that nothing works, everything is helpless and you just need to sit still and wait. After all, it's not your city being leveled by bombardments, just some Kharkiv or something. You? You have time!
Yes that's totally how it works lol. Just like that Putin's regime will crumble. Honestly you can come and show us. Or you don't care, because it's just some Kharkiv getting bombed and not your city? Classic totally-dont-support-putin-but-will-only-be-annoying-online
Ah yes, age old solution to all ruski problems - have ukrainians fix it.
Another banger by politico...
>and support Russia war against Ukraine Can you share where you get that information?
Source: 450,000 "simple" Good Russians in Ukraine.
That is just 0.003% of the population.
Other ruscist scum is supplying them from the russian territory, including paying taxes.
Talk to any Russians you can find, I have only ever met ONE who was against the annexation of Crimea
Okay, that can be close to true, but how its relate to my question?
If almost all Russians are in favor of starting a war against Ukraine in order to take territory from a foreign country, how does that answer about your question about how most Russians support Russias war against Ukraine? Seems like I am wasting my time here if you don't see that
Annexation != War.
How do you annex something that doesn't belong to you without starting a war
They are just ordinary people. They did not understand (and still do not really understand) the consequences of such actions. In 2014, I was shocked at how fun and enthusiastically the "joining" of the peninsula was received. This was not perceived as the beginning of a war, or any military conflict at all.
They attacked another country and took its territory, in which universe is that not a declaration of war? How would you argue this? How would anyone?
Yeah, that just illustrates how normalized aggression and violence are in Russian society.
Reality. What, you want a fucking graph that shows the obvious? Make it yourself. The vast, overwhelming, majority of Russians either outright support the war or couldn’t care less about it. If you can’t recognize that I suggest you mingle a bit.
I wouldn't argue that it's the majority, but 60% and 90% are very different. There is no actual source that may prove one or another is true and if you judge that 100% support the war because there is no revolution, please shut up
>but 60% and 90% are very different. The results are the same and that’s all that matters.
Yes but that's not what we were talking about. Also it will matter after the war ends
Maybe it’ll matter to Russians. For anyone else it won’t matter. Russia will not have normal relations with their neighbours within our lifetimes. In fact, I hope relations never normalize because it will inevitably end with Russia taking advantage and reminding everyone of who they are and what they do.
Man I am so tired of this "Russia is a cursed land" bullshit
So am I. I wish they’d leave everyone the fuck alone.
What is this comment about? That you don't support the war? Neither do I. We were talking about different things but you keep pushing how much do you hate putin
Unless we see your actions against the Ruscist regime - please, shut up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German
What is an "action" in you head? Beat a policeman, change nothing and go to jail? Sorry, I'm not brave enough to sacrifice my freedom or even life for nothing
Just as an example: kill the "policeman", get jailed, get recruited, contact "Hochu zhit" line to surrender, get to Ukrainians.
Great fucking idea. Ruin your life for nothing. I think if you care about ukranians you should show me how to do it
If you consider resisting ruscism as "nothing" - please, shut up. Your "police" is raping elders and kidnapping Ukrainian kids in Ukrainian Donbass and Crimea using your taxes to sponsor it.
It's not a question whether it 60% or 90%. It's a question of what remaining 40% or 10% are up to. There's a tiny fraction of Russian, like 0.01% (i.e. less than 15 thousands) who actively resist the war. They fight against the regime with weapon, burn military and FSB facilities, or undermine usurpator army in other ways. The rest are silent supporters of the war crimes their country commits.
I stopped caring about it years ago, even before 2022. It was quite clear already then that this WW2 obsession was turning into a fascist frenzy that will eventually be used to justify something atrocious.
Putin and Xi keep telling everyone left and right that a Golden Era is right around the corner and a long shift in the weight of the world is about to come. They sell this kool aid to the masses too but especially to eachother, other world leaders and the elite. This is like the End of Days with religious radicals.. 10 years from now, just wait! 10 years comes.. 10 years from now! If the West works together as a unit, Russia will become another North Korea. They already threaten with nukes, wont change much except a pariah. 90% of all trade is done through a company in Belgium, nearly 90% of all currency is USD.. the next largest ones are all Western except Chinas currency.. either way, about 96% of the worlds currency is in Western currency. If Russians are able to push through Ukrainian lines, you'll see very hard hitting sanctions. The further they move, the harder they'll get until its an absolute blackout like NK. He tried to save Russia, lets hope he's destroyed it.. otherwise we'll be the ones destroyed.
We are 1 trump away from it tho
The shift in the weight of the world has already happened. The world order of the 90's and early 2000's is long gone. This doesn't mean its gonna be a golden era for anyone involved though. Just a new "reality" when it comes to foreign relations, domestic politica , economy and espionage.
i hope Ukrain have the Germany treatment n not the Korean one
>If Russians are able to push through Ukrainian lines, you'll see very hard hitting sanctions. The further they move, the harder they'll get until its an absolute blackout like NK. Man this is a ridiculous take and we need to stop with it, really. We've seen that Western sanctions work shit, except that they damage our own economies. This line - "very hard hitting sanctions" - has been said for years now it it obviously does not work. We exhausted ourselves already and lastingly damaged our (financial) trustworthiness for emerging and non-western economies with certain measures. Russia's GDP is growing, our competitors get cheap natural resources (oil and gas especially) while we buy them second hand at a mark up so to say. Our industries are falling behind and shrinking. Russian influence in Asia, Africa and South America is growing meanwhile, while e.g. France is thrown out of Africa. That is the opposite of a blackout. Let us please not deceive ourselves here in false grandeur. It's a deceptive take and will only further damage our own interests.
>Russia's GDP is growing Maybe it will catch up with Italy’s GDP. Then we’re SCREWED 🤡
Great counter-argument to the points I brought forward.. Also, seems quite apparent that the GDP is not the best measure to evaluate a state's overall economic strength right?
I wasn’t the one who brought up GDP. But the fact is, sanctions do work. Every moment wasted finding loopholes and any small amount spent on extra shipping are time&money not spent on Russia’s main goal. It all adds up.
The "sanctions don't work but plz lift" bandwagon, folks
[удалено]
I was backing your point, so take that as you will
My apologies 😅
It's alright, I just wasn't clear
But for the most its the happiest year, sad country. I hate the fact that this shithole country is my neighbour.
>for the most its the happiest year What? Where you heard that?
Define some.
Good day of cake
Wonder how other former Soviet citizens feel that a fellow republic uses this day to promote war against them, Ukrainians and Georgians, and whoever else is next.
The irony that Nazi organizations like Rusich, Wagner under the Fascist state of Russia attacks Ukraine, headed by a jewish president, under the pretense of fighting nazis is just so thick you almost cant believe it.
They have just copied "Lebensraum im Osten" into a "Ruskie mir" and renamed "aryan race" to "ruskies" and "untermensch" to "artificially created by Lenin".
Putin is slowly but surely bringing the russia to its knees again. History repeats itself over and over again over there.
Not that many though
from now i call it lend lease appreciacion day
Putin is just a placeholder for a fuhrer. Russians are responsible for their neonazi Ruscism.
I could as easily tell you that "for some Belgian people, this Friday was the day they lost their livelihood"
I love the wording "for some" --- the world isn't black and white.
"said Andrei Kolesnikov, a senior fellow at the Berlin-based Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center think tank ".