They didn't get there, thats why so many people are dodging the draft, they only want to send the young, and not their own. I doubt even this number is accurate.
Most of them aren't even "brainwashed". They hated us and the West long before 2014. But it's convenient for them to be labeled as brainwashed because this way they are the "victims of regime" and nobody can blame them for what russia did.
Many Russian sympothizers already think they are fighting the West in Ukraine because NATO has donated decades old equipment.
They are in for a rude awakening if the West stops appeasing.
There are 5 members of NATO that could, on their own, either defeat or at least successfully defend from Russia, in a conventional war.
Once nukes start flying, there's no winner.
Russians are completely delusional.
Russians suffer from the same nationalist/imperialist delusion than nazi Germany. They will do the same mistakes and will suffer the same fate. It is certain they will attack nato countries convinced by their own propaganda that they can win against the “weak and degenerate” west
Idk. Nazi Germany successfully invaded and occupied its neighbors. Putinist Russia can't even do that. Useless authoritarian society. All flex no muscle.
To be fair, post Soviet Russia has managed to rip a piece from Moldova, drstroy and usurp Chechnya, part of Georgia, part of Ukraine. They have occupied territories from weaker neighbours it's just time they took a bigger bite than they could chew and might end up choking. Russia and Putin should not be overestimated, but not underestimated either. They are at war with us (NATO) and it would be unwise of us to think they can't do us any harm. Just look at elections in Germany, France and US. They might suck on the battlefield but they are potent at infiltration.
This comparison does not make sense at all.
Nazi Germany grew to be strongest European economy by far. It then succesfully controlled pretty much entire Europe and was allied with major world powers.
Germany had 3rd economy in the world. China (4th biggest economy) was already occupied by Japan which was 6th biggest economy and Italy was 7th biggest economy.
US as number one was completely neutral and USSR as number two was allied with nazis.
3/5 biggest European economies were axis + allies and in terms of nominal GDP outnumbered the others like 3 to 1. And Germany also delivered as they conquered most of mainland Europe with ease. It is true that they did mistake by going to USSR and that they got fucked by Japan who brought US into the war earlier than anticipated.
That being said the comparison is still just stupid. The starting points and raw strength, powerfull econom as well as powerfull allies Germans had before WW2 dwarfs anything Russia has. Even if Russian side 10xed, it would still be dwarfed by advantage, strategic position and allies Germans had in relative terms.
Wrong. Germany/Hitler was not “being dumb”. Germany declared war on US hoping it would induce Japan to join in the war against the USSR. As far as Hitler was concerned, the US was already in a de facto state of war with Germany—US naval vessels had been regularly attacking German submarines on multiple occasions while escorting supply ships to the U.K./USSR.
I agree with everything you said except for Nazi Germany dwarfing "anything Russia has", which omits the largest nuclear arsenal of the world, which is comparable to the US one, but larger than all of the other countries capabilities combined. Yes, it's a double-edged sword, and actually using it probably means apocalypse, but it cannot be neglected.
“The west supports gay people, that must mean they are weak”
Says the country on track for its 2nd collapse in 40 years lol. Russian nationalists are a different level of FUCKED in the head.
This is the big worry. Putin knows he can't beat NATO, he's not THAT stupid. But he has to peddle the narrative that Russia is invincible and victory is inevitable and the whole world is russian or else his power collapses.
But whoever his successor is, is alive right now, and they have been exposed to years of this propaganda and might actually believe it. Once that person gets into power and sees it as his holy duty to conquer the world, we're gonna have a big problem.
Russians are heavily exposed to propaganda. They probably think it takes so long to win in Ukraine because their "liberating forces" try to be as humane as possible.
It's amazing to me how the Russians are so deeply affected by propaganda, all they needed to do was run some global news about the situation into Google translate to start questioning their own country's stance. Even the soldiers thought Ukrainian locals would welcome them and thank them for liberating them from their horrible Nazi government.
The kremlin heavily restricts Russians' access to western media, including socials. They even have their own Google.
These policies got even worse after the invasion. There are still ways to access international news, and about 20% of them use VPNs, but the majority won't bother.
This is because it’s not something that has been done over night, Russians been living with constant propaganda of various degrees for the last 100 years. At this point it’s as natural for them as taking a shit
(A russian couple)
Hey honey? What's the war about?
Well sweety, we're fighting Nato and Ukraine terror.
And are we winning?
Well sweety, we've only conquered a bit of land, sustained heavy losses and lots of tanks and planes have gone to the trash. With the ammount of money we are putting into this war we might not come out of it as winners but still face a huge ressession that will take the country back some 50 years.
Ok... but what about Nato? They have to be suffering a lot too right?
Ahaha Nato hasn't even arrived yet.
A war between Russia and NATO would rapidly become a war between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea vs NATO + Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Australia.
They would have the advantage in numbers and in number of nukes.
But NO one is or can be prepared for a war like that. And they’re a fool if they think they are.
I actually don’t believe China would get involved. The smart play for China would be to stay out of it. Keep your military and industry in tact. You would emerge from the aftermath as the sole superpower of the world for whatever part of the world would be left.
This, many people dont understand that china and russia are not allies, they only cooperate if their Interests align, why would china enter in a world war to help russia? They would benefit a lot more by being neutral, at least at the beggining.
China has never used the word "allied" with the Russians. They did not build the underground city in Beijing to protect itself from the west back in the day either. I suspect they have not forgotten that
I dont think they would, unless they feel that russia Will be completely defeated or if they collapse, china is interested in having a stable russia because that way they can bleed russia dry of resources, as they are currently doing.
Just estimated that any real conflict in the west would lead russian east pretty much undefended. Opportunity to cut the middle man and let some mercenary groups to occupy and steal those resources while the conflict in the west continues. There would not be any official ties to China.
That is easier said than done, the russians are not stupid, if some mercenery groups are suddendly taking the russian far east and exploiting the área in chinas favor, dont you think the russians Will suspect It? Besides the russian east is not something you can easily take, is an enormous territory, the population would be hostile towards their invaders, and one of the biggest russian cities and most important military bases of the russian armed forces (vladivostok) sits on the far east.
In my opinion china benefits immensely from the current status quo, they have pretty much unlimited access to russian resources and market without any need of military intervention, and at the same time they have the russians weaking the west, honestly they could not be in a better position right now, almost as if they have planned this all along.
They could bleed all those resources even better out of small and poor countries that Russia will dissolve, too.
However, it is probably in their interest to have Russia in the war as long as possible so they can sell weapons and ammunition to Russia.
I wouldnl't be surprised if some of those 5 million shells purchased from NK are produced in China and sold via NK to Russia.
Taiwan is small game compared to russian far-east, which would be significantly easier to occupy in Russia vs. NATO scenario. Moreover, Taiwans value is mostly high level industry, which would be destroyed permanently in any conflict on the Island.
Are you assuming a conventional war with Russia would devastate the west somehow? Or are you assuming China would survive nuclear war if they kept out of it? Both are unlikely.
“A war between Russia and NATO would rapidly become a war between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea vs NATO + Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Australia.”
Not necessarily.
“They would have the advantage in numbers and in number of nukes.”
numbers don’t mean that much. Russia has numbers advantage over Ukraine, yet here we are. And West has enough nukes to nuke everyone several times over.
You misunderstood China, they wouldn't enter a war with the West to protect Russia. They are allies of convenience, nothing more.
China wants to become the dominant world power, it would be better to sit out a hypothetical war between US and Russia and build strength by continuing to trade with both sides.
IMO nukes are useles in a war, you can't use them because if you do, you're ass just gets nuked too
They worked in WWII because a counterattack wasn't ready, sitting in a missle silo, with the coordinates already input
> useless
As tactical weapons? Sure. Any tactical use Will inevitably result in escalation resulting in strategic use.
As a strategic deterrent? They have HUGE use. The fear that the US will drop a tactical nuke on an invasion fleet is one of the main reasons China doesn’t invade Taiwan, for example.
>The fear that the US will drop a tactical nuke on an invasion fleet is one of the main reasons China doesn’t invade Taiwan, for example.
It's not, any response by the US would be awful enough for China to not try anything funny
I don't think China or Iran would get involved. China relies too heavily on outside trade. They'd certainly continue to supply Russia but...what else is new? They're not so friendly with Russia that they would get involved in a war with their largest trade partners. Iran has already shown that it's not eager for conflict. They can't even control their own bought and paid for regional actors. North Korea is the only one who might get involved but China would be there to check them.
Russia doesn't have allies like the West. They don't have anyone who would step up to the plate to defend them if things go sideways. That's not how they've operated since the Union collapsed and the Union was never one of allies, but the typical Russian "You will help us, or else" mentality. Russia doesn't have any sort of regional leverage anymore. They've pissed it all away.
Their hope is that the GOP overthrows the USA, becomes fascist and sympathetic to Putin, then Putin/China can do what it wants. Which actually is true and a danger. Unfortunately people are stupid and voting against their own best interests due to propaganda, even in Europe.
That sentence doesn't mean what you think it means, unless you're actually regretting not knowing and liking enough russians.
That part of Bilbo's speech in LOTR wasn't meant as an insult.
I don't even know what that sentence means to be honest. I took it as he likes half Russians and despises the other half, which is pretty fucking dumb imo. But what do I know, I'm just here getting shitfaced because the Euros.
Honestly I just saw “more than half” and went full lotrmemes.
I don’t necessarily hate Russians but Putin needs to fuck off and take his army out of Ukraine. If Russian people are being spoon fed Russian propaganda and believing it, thinking they are at war with all of NATO, they probably believe they are in the right. Unfortunately they’re not. They’re being lied to. And it’s costing lives on both sides.
And as for the Euros, Spain are looking good…
Google translation says "More than half of Russians (57%) believe in the ***possibility*** of a new world war."
Possibility and "are prepared for" means very different things in this context. I live in Finland, I am not prepared or preparing for WW, but I believe there is a possibility for a new world war. You have to be delusional to think there isn't.
Now the other part might be a bit delusional.
I just went on vk to check out what they are talking about....
Oh dude shit is scary,they are under the impression they are fighting nato right now and wining.. the deal offer was either viewed as great success or that its dumb to offer anything to Ukraine and they should just nuke it and the west at this point..
Like jfc they are so brainwashed.. if Putin dies, nothing will change with russia ..
How the actual fuk would we even try to denazify russia at this point?
We are still not accepting the fact that Russia is at war with us. We need to think and act strategically and realise that Russia is at war with us." Ben Hodges
Hodges then explains that Russia sees this war with the West in a broader sense. We often tend to consider only the kinetic version of it, but Russian acts of war against the West and especially against Europe also include asymmetric warfare, economic warfare, cyberwarfare, info war etc. Russia is seeing itself at war with the US led alliance, and that is all it takes for a war. We must accept this inconvenient truth and take action and respond accordingly to defend ourselves against Russia's hostile behavior.
The war is already ongoing, and Russian territory is being infringed. According to their own stupid logic, they have annexed parts of Ukraine. But also, of course, to defeat Russia, Belgorod, Kursk, etc. will be targeted with missiles, drones, etc.
To inflict a decisive defeat on Russia, it is not necessary to get troops all the way into the Kremlin.
War is politics with other means, a decisive defeat can be brought about by causing Russia massive attrition, expanding sanctions and by driving them into bankruptcy, this way Russia was defeated in 1917 and 1991, and the current war is just the next step towards the failure of Russia, how badly Russia will collapse this time is something only time can tell.
Russia must be decentralised and federalised. Should that not happen, then we must ensure they are isolated and take punitive action against sanction busters, etc.
We can defeat them economically and politically as well as militarily in a decisive manner without ever setting a foot anywhere near Moscow Oblast. Russia cannot even protect its borders properly any longer, and it has to import fuel and ammunition while still not having enough to meet its needs. This process is bound to worsen over time as the war will demand any more resources, spare parts, and monetary funds, while on the other hand, Russian stockpiles in both money and materiel are shrinking.
Yes, it started as a special military operation, but as soon as this whole gang was formed, when the collective West took part in all this alongside Ukraine, for us, it became a war. I am convinced of this, and everyone must understand it.” Peskov
When Peskov says "we're at war with the whole collective west" we laugh because c'mon, there are no Russian military personnel in NATO territory, they don't even amass troops near our borders, stop with the sabre-rattling. While he means it honestly, it's just Russia decides that armed incursion is not the right tool for the task at the moment and will cause distress at the borders, sabotage, disinform and troll - which are means of waging a war as good as Grad launchers, while we consider them "probing of our defenses", "spy activity" or "electoral interference" without merging this stuff into a big picture - and responding in kind.
They would find out when NATO engages directly. However, we must have a more realistic view, Russia is indeed seeing herself at war with us. Our deterrence is not sufficient thus far to neutralize the threat that they pose.
I'm very concerned that nobody in the West considers targeted political vote manipulation as problematic. Russia has been at war with the US and some European countries for about a decade now and nobody cares.
The people in power know. MI5 know what has happened since Brexit, it just isn’t damaging the powers that be or their wealth. Chinese are also messing with politics. 2 Chinese spies were arrested in Germany and they had roles in the AfD (hard right party with nazi ties).
Just take a look at the shit your feeds spew sometimes with trump and I aint even american.
There is a massive propaganda push to make him look competent. And the far right in Europe is being pushed in anything social media related.
What scares me is there is so many idiots eating up all of this and still defending the idea that ukraine is a waste of tax payers money and that the extreme right is an anwser. We really need to pummel down on russia and take a harder stance on china's medling of our goverments, or we are really looking into a shitstorm for the next 15 years...
That's just not true. From the Brexit referendum till the last US elections, institutions in the West did care.
The problem is that no one knows how to answer this kind of hybrid war. What do you propose to do?
Manipulate elections in Russia? First, that's a bit hard to pull off, second it goes against all values the West has.
More sanctions? They might impact their economy in the long run, but that's far from sure given they can trade with China and India just fine.
Stopping all trade? Some countries still depend on gas, oil, or metals from Russia while others need processed Uranium only Russia can provide in the amounts required at this time.
Invade Russia? Surefire way to end civilization as we know it.
Asymmetric warfare in response...
Disclaimer for the tankies: I'm from the US.
I would cut Russia off from the global Internet. Entirely and aggressively. Cut cables, whatever MI5, MI6, the NSA, etc. can do to kill the troll farms, etc.
Then make the known receipt of Russian influence or money in politics illegal. Even in the US, foreign influence is not protected by our first amendment. In addition, any Russian who acts on behalf of Russian political aims is deported or jailed.
Further escalation would be 1:1 response to industrial sabotage incidents. Preferably deep in Russia, like their oil export pipelines or the diamond mines.
Russia is a bully state. The only thing they understand is violence. The only way they will stop is when they understand that their opponent is stronger and willing to use that strength.
The word "courage" should be reserved to characterize the man or woman, who is leaving the infantile sanctuary of the mass mind. Sam Keen Fire in the Belly
The infantile sanctuary was what prevented us from seeing what is going on, I saw what is happening and was called a maniac, an idiot, a warmonger, a madman and even when the full scale invasion happened, only very few were willing to listen. Even now, many more listen, but not all understand the threat. The Baltics knew, Poland knew, Ukraine obviously knew but this war is targeted at all of us, Russia threatens us with war and destruction and we must finally stare right at this problem instead of pretending it isn't there.
Our ignorance and inaction has already cost many lives, and many more are now at risk, troops are marching against Europe, missiles fly, people die, unspoken horrors have been unleashed by Russia, horrendous war crimes committed, tens of thousands of war crimes. And our reaction has to finally match this madness.
It is needless to say that yes you were right from the start, but this isn't enough, block the trade, halt all of it and we will either stand up now and face this threat head on and without fear or we will face it in five years and then it will not be signatures that we must give, but lives, the lives of millions.
The stakes are higher than ever, and it is seriously time to take Russia seriously instead of constantly coming up with another excuse for this state that draws perverted pleasure from murder and persecution. We looked away for far too long, and that made the situation as bad as it is today.
Defy the strong and appease the weak, not the other way round, that may be the only way to world peace.
Just to add, the International Energy Association predicts a glut of oil by 2030. Based on falling demand, particularly from EVs, electric scooters, motorbikes etc and rising production, particularly in the US. Which will cause a massive drop in the price of oil.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-oil-supply-international-energy-agency-2030/
And as we all know Russia is essentially a gas station, masquerading as a country. Instead of taking their oil revenues over the last 20 years and building the country. Their net capital flows have been out, at least up until the start of the war. As oligarchs and corrupt officials buy up foreign land, yachts etc. With Putin by far in the lead of that. Conservatively he has a real wealth of about $200 billion. At least before the war. Russia is basically doomed.
He's lost the myth of the invulnerability of the Red Army. His equipment is largely woeful. He just still has them in numbers. His Wonder Weapons are useless or worse than what proceeded them e.g. Ukraine is now regularly intercepting his latest missiles Kinzhal and Zircon. Whilst some of the missiles from the 1960s, are almost impossible to destroy in the air.
Given time the various Russian republics will want to claim their own independence. With the Kadyrovites apparently being in Ukraine. Who's stopping the Chechen people from rising up? Or a number of other republics. Many of whom would rather hang on to their oil wealth, rather than sending it to Moscow and getting very little in return.
However I don't see a return if Russia returning to just being the State of Muscovy and Lithuania recovering it's historical lands.
Lack of any strategic insight': Putin's blunders run deeper than Ukraine; The myth of Russian President Vladimir Putin as a strategic genius is quickly disintegrating.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/the-front-page-putins-blunders-run-deeper-than-ukraine/XOR7PJB7VUWU7YPL5HSQ7TDFHQ/
In 1998 oil was trading at $20.00 a barrel in June of 2008 it hit a record high of $189.56 that’s 9x increase in price. Co-incidentally between 1998-2008 Russia’s economy grew 8x. Putin‘s only genius was to be in office for one of the biggest bull markets for oil prices in history. Russian GDP since 2008 has fallen from $1.68 trillion to $1.44 trillion, with a peak in 2013 of $2.2 trillion. A ” genius” would have used the huge profits from oil to diversify and modernize /re-establish Russian technology and industry and build infrastructure for further economic development. Instead they blew it all on luxury yachts, mistresses, Miami condos, and palaces. It is depressing because a genius could have made Russia into an actual global power in the last 20 years and very modern country — they should have followed the Norwegian model for oil wealth, instead they built an extractive and corrupt crime empire that has brought nothing but misery to Russia and all its neighbours.
Look, they don't have to go back to the year 1547, but they have to retreat from Ukraine, they have to, there is no other way otherwise the security order of Europe is dead and we head into a world of pure chaos, the rule of the jungle.
Russia has to give places like Kaliningrad a choice of self-determination. As long as Russia is centered around Moscow, this will never stop. Another would take Putin’s place. An empire won by war and conquest cannot sustain itself without war and conquest, and in its current shape and form, Russia is not fit for the 21st century.
Shishkin:
My country has fallen out of time’: Russian author Mikhail Shishkin’s
The only way out is to inflict a military defeat on the Putin regime. Therefore, democratic countries must help the Ukrainians with everything they can and, above all, with weapons. After the war, the whole world will come to your aid to reconstruct what has been destroyed, and the country will be able to rebuild itself. Russia will lie in the ruins of the economy and in the ruins of consciousness. A new birth of my country is possible only through the complete destruction of the Putin regime. The empire must be amputated from the Russian person, like malignant cancer. This “hour zero” is vital for Russia. My country will have a future only if it passes through total defeat, as happened with Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/apr/02/russian-writer-mikhail-shishkin-letter-ukrainian-invasion-anniversary-my-russia-war-peace
The Russians at the end of the Cold War. Actually offered up Kaliningrad to basically any neighbouring European country that wanted it. However nobody wanted about a million Russians in their country. As it would have destabilised Poland and Lithuania and Germany didn't want it back. With there being far too many future opportunities for Russia in the future. To start complaining about the treatment of their people. With deporting all of the Russians from the territory not being seen as political feasible by a European country in the 1990s. Stalin of course, deported all of the native Germans from it and moved the Russians in. When the annexed it.
Which really should have told the Russians how little territorial ambitions Europe had.
Somehow, it didn't because I think we are not conversing in the same linguistic frame. Putin constantly talks about how he has been betrayed and deceived. Every action set every word uttered has somehow been viewed as the next insult followed by another provocation and ultimately in 2008 when Putin spoke in Munich, and when Georgia was attacked we should have understood what is going on, but we didn't. We cannot wait until Putin becomes "normal" because he is normal in world, but what this man sees as normal is insanity, and not just for Ukraine's sake, but for the sake of Europe this must end.
I wish the Russians would end it, but they follow him in slavish worship just as the Germans followed Hitler.
All my knowledge, all my words, all my wisdom, and here my Latin is at an end. There are no words to describe the madness Putin has unleashed.
I know only one thing, with this regime, we cannot have peace because when Putin speaks of peace, he speaks ill of it.
Russiae Imperium delendum est.
Part of the problem is that the current philosophy that's in Cavour at the moment in Russia. Is that Russia must expand or collapse. That Russia is so far behind the West, as many of the rules for international discourse were written during the period of the USSR. When Stalin and others were boycotting them. So that they're playing a game where they feel disadvantaged.
Then you have Putin's place in Russian history. What will future generations think of him? As a dictator, who plundered the state's coffers or as the hero of the Russian Empire. Who reunited the countries of the USSR? He's 71 now and there are numerous rumors about his health. Time isn't really on his side. So he has to move now and move quickly or compete for position of the worst Tsar since at least Nicholas II.
That’s why I hope the West will hurry up and stop being dependent on oil and other finite resources that support Russia and Arab countries. Once they’ll be irrelevant, they’ll finally stop messing around and be forced to behave.
> How the actual fuk would we even try to denazify russia at this point?
I'll just point out that the only way we know of to "denazify" a country from actual history is to totally and completely militarily defeat it.
exactly. but this cant be done to a nuclear armed state. lets think back, would hitler who committed suicide have used nukes had he had them?
so this means only the russians themselves can "denazify" russia which, i dont know, seems nearly impossible.
>How the actual fuk would we even try to denazify russia at this point?
Sorry, but this reminded me of that Simpsons scene: “We haven’t tried anything and we’re out of ideas!”
That’s what people fail to understand.
Germany wasn’t denazified because they lost a war and they just gratefully accepted they had been made delusional - they were FORCED to be denazified, to a degree that their entire state didn’t actually exist on paper for like a decade after WWII because it was divided up into zones and effective governance was done by the Allies.
We will not be able to do the same to Russia unless there actually is an all out war and the west wins and even then Russia is times bigger than Germany ever was and Russia has had close to 80 years of heroism and propaganda pumped into its people how they are a divine nation of extraordinary people. You can’t just undo it in a year or even 10. Russia is kind of like North Korea… except more advanced and much larger and people in general are less controlled, but the mind twisting propaganda has gotten so much closer to NK levels in the last 10 years than they were in the previous 20 years.
Honestly, we should probably wall off Russia and treat it as Russia was treated during the Cold War. At the very least, we are very much back in the Cold War now so we should go back to CW protocols. Front line states should be treated like CW states were. Trouble is, people don’t want to think we’re back in Cold War - they want back the year 2012 or something.
Best case scenario if russia simply falls apart and separates into independent states sort of speak and will be busy rebuilding their own shit. That would be ideal. Also can be wishful thinking though…
There was a time when many russians were ready to storm our country. they were sure that it´d be alright. they wore their dress set, and waltzed right in. it didnt end well.
for them.
we defended the everliving shit out of our country. 271,528 casualties. theirs. how do you reckon things will go with a country that does not underdo anything.
what wars do?
we made their victory **pyrrhic** enough to change the main lines of history.
we only provide one hell of a fight, far more severe than UA front unfortunately can but them yankees? they´ll bomb the opposition back to stoneage for saying hello wrong.
so let them. death is preferable to russian rules anyway.
bring it.
Remember that time 500 Syrian and Russian Wagner troops including tanks, armored personnel carriers and artillery attacked 40 American troops in Syria and had 200-300 casualties and the Americans had none? Air power is pretty effective, the article is well worth reading.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html
I studied the US national security apparatus in school and part of that study was related to near-peer conflict spilling over from proxy wars. Apart from “near-peer” being a stretch in this instance, it’s important to note that in most simulations, RF aligned forces fail to get an appreciable number of aircraft out of the hangars, let alone off the ground. Outsourcing logistics is another huge liability, as is rail-reliance. The average Russian soldier does not have access to key battlefield technology (night vision, modern body armor, modern ground-based armor, etc) at scale and under duress and would likely be fighting a force decades ahead in training and equipment.
What people fail to realize is that at the core of the US military industrial complex is a very simple idea. We bring artillery to knife fights.
>More often than others, militant men over 60 years of age speak out in favor of a nuclear strike. As a rule, they consider the decision to start a war in Ukraine to be correct.
Growing up surrounded by USSR propaganda probably played a part.
They couldnt even beat a barely reformed Ukranian army with the same equipment as them. How the fuck they hope to do anything against 1 nato country let alone the US is honestly just funny at this point.
The power of propaganda. They should speak with their fellow countrymen shipped off to Ukraine and left to die. Also, prepared? Are they really " prepared"? That implies critical thinking, research, stockpiling etc. Something tells me they're not prepared.
Just a reminder that the last independent poll entity was highjack by the Russian government in 2016.
There's no honest report on that kind of subjects. It's not a result of Russian believing in Propaganda. It's directly propaganda.
Either they made up the number, or people reply what is expected of them.
The USA would have to hold back so they don't panic and use nukes. If Russia did not have nukes the US military would curbstomp them. But since that is not the world we live in, I think the US would limit themselves to avoid that outcome.
You don't need to think about it, the US is doing just that in Ukraine. They're stuck between how to ensure Ukraine wins without Russia kneejerking into dropping a nuke, which the US has already said would be an act of war and will induce a response against Russian assets. And yet I still wish we start giving Ukraine the good stuff and let them hit military targets in Russia.
“As sociologists note, Russians without higher education, low-income people and residents of small towns most often declare Russia’s victory in the world war.” - so pretty much the whole population. The greatest gift a nation can provide its people is health and education. Putin’s Russia gift is disinformation and poverty.
According to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), 56% of Russians aged 25–64 have a tertiary degree, which is 19 percentage points higher than the OECD average.
I hate on Putin as much as the next guy, but there’s no need for misinformation against the regular Russian John Doe.
Raw numbers don't tell the real story of tertiary education in Russia. One of the biggest reasons for males in Russia to get it is not education, but exemption from conscription - as long as you're in uni you won't be conscripted. And if you pass a special military course in uni you will never be conscripted in life.
Some of the ideologically motivated degrees are worthless at best, harmful at worst. It's difficult to impose ideology on math, physics and chemistry, but stuff like the humanities, social sciences, theology, etc. are wildly unscientific in Russia.
US doctrine is that they need to be able to fight in two major theaters at once an win both, so they will fight both places. But the main focus will differ. I have heard the US military is a logistics organization that dabbel in combat.
Even if that was the case which I highly doubt since I don't believe China would want anything to do with that whole mess, Europe would be more than enough against Russia both in man power by a large margin and eventually in logistics though we would fall behind in that aspect in the beginning since Russia is in full blown War economy right now.
U.S. can handle both russia and china because we're in it together. and besides NATO, we have our pacific and oceania friends, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. and let's not forget about these bro's -South Korea, Singapore, Vietnam, Philipines, Taiwan, Indonesia...i think Thailand would quickly come to reason as well, they just playin' these past few months.
Pakistan reached out to U.S. for many times and i think it would be better to take them in instead of india, i think india would play neutrality card anyway. they're unreliable (at least under modi).
when it would come to such scenario, i don't think Europe would fight russia alone, because U.S. doesn't need to focus purely on china.
we (collective west) have more friends than those sinno-ork wankers so luckily U.S. will be able to operate on both fronts simultaneously.
Russian here.
They are doing the same mistake that social researches have been saying for decades - public opinion polls are useless durning war time and with censorship present.
If one of the answers could potentially get you in trouble, then it’s not representative. “Do you like what the Russian army is doing or would you like to spend up to 10 years in jail for discrediting the army?”
Well, no surprise you get almost 90% of people saying they do.
Comparing Russia to the Reich is mindblowing. The Reich was a superpower. Arguably the strongest one of it's time. Russia is a decadent state. It still has some strenght but far from being the menace the Reich was.
That's true. But the Reich had a reason to feel that way. If some minor things had changed they would have taken over Europe.
Russia is just barking. But you are right, it's just propaganda and both relied/rely a lot in it
I work with half a dozen russians occasionally, all living abroad for a decade at least, all in their 30's.
They have access to the same media as you and I, but ALL are pro-putin and pro-war, except one (who is married to a ukrainian woman).
That says it all.
If we don't believe their election results, why do we believe their poll/survey results? This is just Russian internal propaganda ("the nation is Strong and United! Everyone believes in Victory!") that happens to fit Western narratives ("they're all crazy") and so gets reprinted in English as fact. It's nonsense.
I'm sure if I started cold-calling random Russians on the phone asking them if they support Great Leader Vova most would say yes but all that means is Russians are not free.
That's all the results of 25 years of putin's propaganda (+remains from the soviet times). I mean, yes, that's what a lot of russians are actually thinking now. But as a russian, I can't really blame them, cause most of the info they got from the "official" russian sources (which are forbidden by law to publish anything contradicting the propaganda), and even those who heavily use internet and can even say "I'm not watching TV" are still highly affected by the same agenda, sadly, from relatives, from environment, from collegues, etc.
There is the saying that the first country captured by hitler was Germany. And from the last \~10-15 years in russia (since 2010-2012) I fully understand what does it means. Sadly, russia is captured by putin and his gang of closest friends.
To make it a fairer match russia would need to fight each state separately. South Dakota has long odds but Id still probably bet on them before russia.
USA would be in Moscow in 2 weeks after the declaration.
It is one thing fighting a neighbor with 40 million inhabitants and donated equipment.
It is an entirely other thing to fight the most militant and technological nation on earth with 350 million inhabitants.
The fact that Russians would expect victory in this scenario shows how completely brainwashed that nation is.
Brain drain had led the iq to drop nationwide below 75.
I mean, depends on what they call victory
Let's say they define as victory as in we destroyed the US with nuclear weapons
The fact that the US also launched theirs and that russia will also be erased from the face of the earth ( if the earth hasn't been destroyed yet) is just a small detail that they won't mention in their last 5 minutes 🤷🏻♂️
More than half of russians live in a propaganda world where Russia is destroying 500 HIMARS, 200 western MBT's and 50k soldiers each day and believe every word the kremlin tells them.
Also the "victory over USA" is funny because not only would they be against USA but other 31 NATO countries. If they struggle in Ukraine alone with NATO surplus how well would it end for them if they start a war against better equipped and trained alliance.
Poland will wipe the floor with them.
Japan will wipe the floor with them.
Finland will wipe the floor with them.
Sweden will wipe the floor with them.
The floor was never this clean.
Life's never like the story books. Just like how in no country for old men, the main character dies off screen, unceremoniously. Life has no plot. Russia might just collapse or retreat within itself without fanfare without any grand war.
Actually this is kinda based in an ironic kind of way - since the current stage of the war started good Russian vodka is hard to come by, as we can see it's used for increased domestic consumption.
Yeaahhhhhhh I don’t think so. Russias capability to invade = several weeks or months to prepare and fail. USA = legit minutes for a first response almost anywhere on the globe (that’s interesting), so maybe not in the middle of Russia but there are only forest anyways). USA can also quite quickly step foot on land
And yes we’re counting conventional response.
They can’t even take a quarter of Ukraine and they expect victory over US?? Apparently they have never experienced full synchronised bombardment of their country, lights out, ports destroyed, and if goes nuclear even worse. Because the Russian airforce and navy will be completely gone in a matter of hours and the stealth bombers will be all Over Russian airspace destroying command and control centres after a quick airspace dominance. How do they plan on achieving victory over the US 🤔🤔🤔??
Deranged
Delusional
Take them to the infirmary
*Gulag
Critical case of delulu.
I wonder if Comrade Dyatlov would've taken up arms for Ukraine if he were still alive
You have not seen a western victory because it is not there!
Propagandised.
Does it matter how they got there? The danger is the current mindset.
They didn't get there, thats why so many people are dodging the draft, they only want to send the young, and not their own. I doubt even this number is accurate.
Most of them aren't even "brainwashed". They hated us and the West long before 2014. But it's convenient for them to be labeled as brainwashed because this way they are the "victims of regime" and nobody can blame them for what russia did.
Fetal alcohol syndrome en masse.
Does it matter how they got there? The danger is the current mindset.
Drunk
well 20% of russians count as alcohol addicts...
They have now tried to defeat Ukraine for almost 2.5 years, and they expect to win a war against the West? Right…
Over 10 years now... 2.5 years since they tried to "take Kyiv in three days"
They were right, it was a special three day operation in the wider war.
Very special.
My mommy tells me I'm special
блицкриг, said google translate
Blyatkrieg
Got himself into блeдъcкриг instead.
Well... In their world they are winning. And winning hard. So I'm not surprised.
They have always been at war with Oceania
But luckily they were never at war with Oceania and can count on their support in the war
They will be of great help in the war against oceania
They're winning so much some of them are getting tired of winning
Many Russian sympothizers already think they are fighting the West in Ukraine because NATO has donated decades old equipment. They are in for a rude awakening if the West stops appeasing.
There are 5 members of NATO that could, on their own, either defeat or at least successfully defend from Russia, in a conventional war. Once nukes start flying, there's no winner. Russians are completely delusional.
Russians suffer from the same nationalist/imperialist delusion than nazi Germany. They will do the same mistakes and will suffer the same fate. It is certain they will attack nato countries convinced by their own propaganda that they can win against the “weak and degenerate” west
Idk. Nazi Germany successfully invaded and occupied its neighbors. Putinist Russia can't even do that. Useless authoritarian society. All flex no muscle.
B-tec nazi germany
To be fair, post Soviet Russia has managed to rip a piece from Moldova, drstroy and usurp Chechnya, part of Georgia, part of Ukraine. They have occupied territories from weaker neighbours it's just time they took a bigger bite than they could chew and might end up choking. Russia and Putin should not be overestimated, but not underestimated either. They are at war with us (NATO) and it would be unwise of us to think they can't do us any harm. Just look at elections in Germany, France and US. They might suck on the battlefield but they are potent at infiltration.
This comparison does not make sense at all. Nazi Germany grew to be strongest European economy by far. It then succesfully controlled pretty much entire Europe and was allied with major world powers. Germany had 3rd economy in the world. China (4th biggest economy) was already occupied by Japan which was 6th biggest economy and Italy was 7th biggest economy. US as number one was completely neutral and USSR as number two was allied with nazis. 3/5 biggest European economies were axis + allies and in terms of nominal GDP outnumbered the others like 3 to 1. And Germany also delivered as they conquered most of mainland Europe with ease. It is true that they did mistake by going to USSR and that they got fucked by Japan who brought US into the war earlier than anticipated. That being said the comparison is still just stupid. The starting points and raw strength, powerfull econom as well as powerfull allies Germans had before WW2 dwarfs anything Russia has. Even if Russian side 10xed, it would still be dwarfed by advantage, strategic position and allies Germans had in relative terms.
Germany declared war on US after Pearl Harbor. It was not nessesary under the terms of the Tripartite act. It was just Germany be8ng dumb.
Wrong. Germany/Hitler was not “being dumb”. Germany declared war on US hoping it would induce Japan to join in the war against the USSR. As far as Hitler was concerned, the US was already in a de facto state of war with Germany—US naval vessels had been regularly attacking German submarines on multiple occasions while escorting supply ships to the U.K./USSR.
I agree with everything you said except for Nazi Germany dwarfing "anything Russia has", which omits the largest nuclear arsenal of the world, which is comparable to the US one, but larger than all of the other countries capabilities combined. Yes, it's a double-edged sword, and actually using it probably means apocalypse, but it cannot be neglected.
“The west supports gay people, that must mean they are weak” Says the country on track for its 2nd collapse in 40 years lol. Russian nationalists are a different level of FUCKED in the head.
This is the big worry. Putin knows he can't beat NATO, he's not THAT stupid. But he has to peddle the narrative that Russia is invincible and victory is inevitable and the whole world is russian or else his power collapses. But whoever his successor is, is alive right now, and they have been exposed to years of this propaganda and might actually believe it. Once that person gets into power and sees it as his holy duty to conquer the world, we're gonna have a big problem.
Apparently during the Cold War the USSR believed nuclear war was survivable 😬
Russians are heavily exposed to propaganda. They probably think it takes so long to win in Ukraine because their "liberating forces" try to be as humane as possible.
It's amazing to me how the Russians are so deeply affected by propaganda, all they needed to do was run some global news about the situation into Google translate to start questioning their own country's stance. Even the soldiers thought Ukrainian locals would welcome them and thank them for liberating them from their horrible Nazi government.
The kremlin heavily restricts Russians' access to western media, including socials. They even have their own Google. These policies got even worse after the invasion. There are still ways to access international news, and about 20% of them use VPNs, but the majority won't bother.
This is because it’s not something that has been done over night, Russians been living with constant propaganda of various degrees for the last 100 years. At this point it’s as natural for them as taking a shit
24/7 propaganda and censored internet.
(A russian couple) Hey honey? What's the war about? Well sweety, we're fighting Nato and Ukraine terror. And are we winning? Well sweety, we've only conquered a bit of land, sustained heavy losses and lots of tanks and planes have gone to the trash. With the ammount of money we are putting into this war we might not come out of it as winners but still face a huge ressession that will take the country back some 50 years. Ok... but what about Nato? They have to be suffering a lot too right? Ahaha Nato hasn't even arrived yet.
Yeah one problem the west still faces is seeing this as a “new” war, these fuckers invaded Crimea in 2014…
A war between Russia and NATO would rapidly become a war between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea vs NATO + Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Australia. They would have the advantage in numbers and in number of nukes. But NO one is or can be prepared for a war like that. And they’re a fool if they think they are.
I actually don’t believe China would get involved. The smart play for China would be to stay out of it. Keep your military and industry in tact. You would emerge from the aftermath as the sole superpower of the world for whatever part of the world would be left.
This, many people dont understand that china and russia are not allies, they only cooperate if their Interests align, why would china enter in a world war to help russia? They would benefit a lot more by being neutral, at least at the beggining.
China has never used the word "allied" with the Russians. They did not build the underground city in Beijing to protect itself from the west back in the day either. I suspect they have not forgotten that
They could even occupy some russian territories without asking russia if russia would be too busy in the west.
I dont think they would, unless they feel that russia Will be completely defeated or if they collapse, china is interested in having a stable russia because that way they can bleed russia dry of resources, as they are currently doing.
Just estimated that any real conflict in the west would lead russian east pretty much undefended. Opportunity to cut the middle man and let some mercenary groups to occupy and steal those resources while the conflict in the west continues. There would not be any official ties to China.
That is easier said than done, the russians are not stupid, if some mercenery groups are suddendly taking the russian far east and exploiting the área in chinas favor, dont you think the russians Will suspect It? Besides the russian east is not something you can easily take, is an enormous territory, the population would be hostile towards their invaders, and one of the biggest russian cities and most important military bases of the russian armed forces (vladivostok) sits on the far east. In my opinion china benefits immensely from the current status quo, they have pretty much unlimited access to russian resources and market without any need of military intervention, and at the same time they have the russians weaking the west, honestly they could not be in a better position right now, almost as if they have planned this all along.
They could bleed all those resources even better out of small and poor countries that Russia will dissolve, too. However, it is probably in their interest to have Russia in the war as long as possible so they can sell weapons and ammunition to Russia. I wouldnl't be surprised if some of those 5 million shells purchased from NK are produced in China and sold via NK to Russia.
China would seize the opportunity when the west ist weakened and try to take Taiwan. When, if not then?!
you probably dont care about taiwan anymore when there is a huge conflict between Russia and Nato
Rather than Taiwan, just take most of Russia.
Taiwan is small game compared to russian far-east, which would be significantly easier to occupy in Russia vs. NATO scenario. Moreover, Taiwans value is mostly high level industry, which would be destroyed permanently in any conflict on the Island.
Yup China will feast on the remains. Cheap resources from feuded countries.
Are you assuming a conventional war with Russia would devastate the west somehow? Or are you assuming China would survive nuclear war if they kept out of it? Both are unlikely.
The smart play for China would probably be to conquer Siberia for its wast amounts of resources.
China would probably stay away just to finish the survivors off in the end
“A war between Russia and NATO would rapidly become a war between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea vs NATO + Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Australia.” Not necessarily. “They would have the advantage in numbers and in number of nukes.” numbers don’t mean that much. Russia has numbers advantage over Ukraine, yet here we are. And West has enough nukes to nuke everyone several times over.
Bro what. Not a single country would come to Russias defense if they started a war with NATO. Maybe China would invade Taiwan and that’s it
You misunderstood China, they wouldn't enter a war with the West to protect Russia. They are allies of convenience, nothing more. China wants to become the dominant world power, it would be better to sit out a hypothetical war between US and Russia and build strength by continuing to trade with both sides.
IMO nukes are useles in a war, you can't use them because if you do, you're ass just gets nuked too They worked in WWII because a counterattack wasn't ready, sitting in a missle silo, with the coordinates already input
> useless As tactical weapons? Sure. Any tactical use Will inevitably result in escalation resulting in strategic use. As a strategic deterrent? They have HUGE use. The fear that the US will drop a tactical nuke on an invasion fleet is one of the main reasons China doesn’t invade Taiwan, for example.
>The fear that the US will drop a tactical nuke on an invasion fleet is one of the main reasons China doesn’t invade Taiwan, for example. It's not, any response by the US would be awful enough for China to not try anything funny
At this point I highly doubt the number of Russian nukes that work
You only need 2-3 to work for the world to have a REALLY bad day.
Why do you think china would want a war? That’s just too far off.
I don't think China or Iran would get involved. China relies too heavily on outside trade. They'd certainly continue to supply Russia but...what else is new? They're not so friendly with Russia that they would get involved in a war with their largest trade partners. Iran has already shown that it's not eager for conflict. They can't even control their own bought and paid for regional actors. North Korea is the only one who might get involved but China would be there to check them. Russia doesn't have allies like the West. They don't have anyone who would step up to the plate to defend them if things go sideways. That's not how they've operated since the Union collapsed and the Union was never one of allies, but the typical Russian "You will help us, or else" mentality. Russia doesn't have any sort of regional leverage anymore. They've pissed it all away.
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Don't forget that they are being told that they're fighting NATO Terminators not just Ukrainians.
Their hope is that the GOP overthrows the USA, becomes fascist and sympathetic to Putin, then Putin/China can do what it wants. Which actually is true and a danger. Unfortunately people are stupid and voting against their own best interests due to propaganda, even in Europe.
Just remember: Most of them have brain damage from excessive alcohol consumption.
More than half of Russians are delusional.
And I like less than half of them half as much as they deserve
That sentence doesn't mean what you think it means, unless you're actually regretting not knowing and liking enough russians. That part of Bilbo's speech in LOTR wasn't meant as an insult.
I don't even know what that sentence means to be honest. I took it as he likes half Russians and despises the other half, which is pretty fucking dumb imo. But what do I know, I'm just here getting shitfaced because the Euros.
Honestly I just saw “more than half” and went full lotrmemes. I don’t necessarily hate Russians but Putin needs to fuck off and take his army out of Ukraine. If Russian people are being spoon fed Russian propaganda and believing it, thinking they are at war with all of NATO, they probably believe they are in the right. Unfortunately they’re not. They’re being lied to. And it’s costing lives on both sides. And as for the Euros, Spain are looking good…
Google translation says "More than half of Russians (57%) believe in the ***possibility*** of a new world war." Possibility and "are prepared for" means very different things in this context. I live in Finland, I am not prepared or preparing for WW, but I believe there is a possibility for a new world war. You have to be delusional to think there isn't. Now the other part might be a bit delusional.
I just went on vk to check out what they are talking about.... Oh dude shit is scary,they are under the impression they are fighting nato right now and wining.. the deal offer was either viewed as great success or that its dumb to offer anything to Ukraine and they should just nuke it and the west at this point.. Like jfc they are so brainwashed.. if Putin dies, nothing will change with russia .. How the actual fuk would we even try to denazify russia at this point?
We are still not accepting the fact that Russia is at war with us. We need to think and act strategically and realise that Russia is at war with us." Ben Hodges Hodges then explains that Russia sees this war with the West in a broader sense. We often tend to consider only the kinetic version of it, but Russian acts of war against the West and especially against Europe also include asymmetric warfare, economic warfare, cyberwarfare, info war etc. Russia is seeing itself at war with the US led alliance, and that is all it takes for a war. We must accept this inconvenient truth and take action and respond accordingly to defend ourselves against Russia's hostile behavior. The war is already ongoing, and Russian territory is being infringed. According to their own stupid logic, they have annexed parts of Ukraine. But also, of course, to defeat Russia, Belgorod, Kursk, etc. will be targeted with missiles, drones, etc. To inflict a decisive defeat on Russia, it is not necessary to get troops all the way into the Kremlin. War is politics with other means, a decisive defeat can be brought about by causing Russia massive attrition, expanding sanctions and by driving them into bankruptcy, this way Russia was defeated in 1917 and 1991, and the current war is just the next step towards the failure of Russia, how badly Russia will collapse this time is something only time can tell. Russia must be decentralised and federalised. Should that not happen, then we must ensure they are isolated and take punitive action against sanction busters, etc. We can defeat them economically and politically as well as militarily in a decisive manner without ever setting a foot anywhere near Moscow Oblast. Russia cannot even protect its borders properly any longer, and it has to import fuel and ammunition while still not having enough to meet its needs. This process is bound to worsen over time as the war will demand any more resources, spare parts, and monetary funds, while on the other hand, Russian stockpiles in both money and materiel are shrinking. Yes, it started as a special military operation, but as soon as this whole gang was formed, when the collective West took part in all this alongside Ukraine, for us, it became a war. I am convinced of this, and everyone must understand it.” Peskov When Peskov says "we're at war with the whole collective west" we laugh because c'mon, there are no Russian military personnel in NATO territory, they don't even amass troops near our borders, stop with the sabre-rattling. While he means it honestly, it's just Russia decides that armed incursion is not the right tool for the task at the moment and will cause distress at the borders, sabotage, disinform and troll - which are means of waging a war as good as Grad launchers, while we consider them "probing of our defenses", "spy activity" or "electoral interference" without merging this stuff into a big picture - and responding in kind. They would find out when NATO engages directly. However, we must have a more realistic view, Russia is indeed seeing herself at war with us. Our deterrence is not sufficient thus far to neutralize the threat that they pose.
I'm very concerned that nobody in the West considers targeted political vote manipulation as problematic. Russia has been at war with the US and some European countries for about a decade now and nobody cares.
The people in power know. MI5 know what has happened since Brexit, it just isn’t damaging the powers that be or their wealth. Chinese are also messing with politics. 2 Chinese spies were arrested in Germany and they had roles in the AfD (hard right party with nazi ties).
Just take a look at the shit your feeds spew sometimes with trump and I aint even american. There is a massive propaganda push to make him look competent. And the far right in Europe is being pushed in anything social media related. What scares me is there is so many idiots eating up all of this and still defending the idea that ukraine is a waste of tax payers money and that the extreme right is an anwser. We really need to pummel down on russia and take a harder stance on china's medling of our goverments, or we are really looking into a shitstorm for the next 15 years...
That's just not true. From the Brexit referendum till the last US elections, institutions in the West did care. The problem is that no one knows how to answer this kind of hybrid war. What do you propose to do? Manipulate elections in Russia? First, that's a bit hard to pull off, second it goes against all values the West has. More sanctions? They might impact their economy in the long run, but that's far from sure given they can trade with China and India just fine. Stopping all trade? Some countries still depend on gas, oil, or metals from Russia while others need processed Uranium only Russia can provide in the amounts required at this time. Invade Russia? Surefire way to end civilization as we know it.
Asymmetric warfare in response... Disclaimer for the tankies: I'm from the US. I would cut Russia off from the global Internet. Entirely and aggressively. Cut cables, whatever MI5, MI6, the NSA, etc. can do to kill the troll farms, etc. Then make the known receipt of Russian influence or money in politics illegal. Even in the US, foreign influence is not protected by our first amendment. In addition, any Russian who acts on behalf of Russian political aims is deported or jailed. Further escalation would be 1:1 response to industrial sabotage incidents. Preferably deep in Russia, like their oil export pipelines or the diamond mines. Russia is a bully state. The only thing they understand is violence. The only way they will stop is when they understand that their opponent is stronger and willing to use that strength.
Before cutting them from internet, having microsoft brick their windowses would be great.
I concur. We need to remind them that our hesitancy to escalate is not weakness, it is mercy. They are bullies and bullies only understand force.
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The word "courage" should be reserved to characterize the man or woman, who is leaving the infantile sanctuary of the mass mind. Sam Keen Fire in the Belly The infantile sanctuary was what prevented us from seeing what is going on, I saw what is happening and was called a maniac, an idiot, a warmonger, a madman and even when the full scale invasion happened, only very few were willing to listen. Even now, many more listen, but not all understand the threat. The Baltics knew, Poland knew, Ukraine obviously knew but this war is targeted at all of us, Russia threatens us with war and destruction and we must finally stare right at this problem instead of pretending it isn't there. Our ignorance and inaction has already cost many lives, and many more are now at risk, troops are marching against Europe, missiles fly, people die, unspoken horrors have been unleashed by Russia, horrendous war crimes committed, tens of thousands of war crimes. And our reaction has to finally match this madness. It is needless to say that yes you were right from the start, but this isn't enough, block the trade, halt all of it and we will either stand up now and face this threat head on and without fear or we will face it in five years and then it will not be signatures that we must give, but lives, the lives of millions. The stakes are higher than ever, and it is seriously time to take Russia seriously instead of constantly coming up with another excuse for this state that draws perverted pleasure from murder and persecution. We looked away for far too long, and that made the situation as bad as it is today. Defy the strong and appease the weak, not the other way round, that may be the only way to world peace.
Just to add, the International Energy Association predicts a glut of oil by 2030. Based on falling demand, particularly from EVs, electric scooters, motorbikes etc and rising production, particularly in the US. Which will cause a massive drop in the price of oil. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-oil-supply-international-energy-agency-2030/ And as we all know Russia is essentially a gas station, masquerading as a country. Instead of taking their oil revenues over the last 20 years and building the country. Their net capital flows have been out, at least up until the start of the war. As oligarchs and corrupt officials buy up foreign land, yachts etc. With Putin by far in the lead of that. Conservatively he has a real wealth of about $200 billion. At least before the war. Russia is basically doomed. He's lost the myth of the invulnerability of the Red Army. His equipment is largely woeful. He just still has them in numbers. His Wonder Weapons are useless or worse than what proceeded them e.g. Ukraine is now regularly intercepting his latest missiles Kinzhal and Zircon. Whilst some of the missiles from the 1960s, are almost impossible to destroy in the air. Given time the various Russian republics will want to claim their own independence. With the Kadyrovites apparently being in Ukraine. Who's stopping the Chechen people from rising up? Or a number of other republics. Many of whom would rather hang on to their oil wealth, rather than sending it to Moscow and getting very little in return. However I don't see a return if Russia returning to just being the State of Muscovy and Lithuania recovering it's historical lands.
Lack of any strategic insight': Putin's blunders run deeper than Ukraine; The myth of Russian President Vladimir Putin as a strategic genius is quickly disintegrating. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/the-front-page-putins-blunders-run-deeper-than-ukraine/XOR7PJB7VUWU7YPL5HSQ7TDFHQ/ In 1998 oil was trading at $20.00 a barrel in June of 2008 it hit a record high of $189.56 that’s 9x increase in price. Co-incidentally between 1998-2008 Russia’s economy grew 8x. Putin‘s only genius was to be in office for one of the biggest bull markets for oil prices in history. Russian GDP since 2008 has fallen from $1.68 trillion to $1.44 trillion, with a peak in 2013 of $2.2 trillion. A ” genius” would have used the huge profits from oil to diversify and modernize /re-establish Russian technology and industry and build infrastructure for further economic development. Instead they blew it all on luxury yachts, mistresses, Miami condos, and palaces. It is depressing because a genius could have made Russia into an actual global power in the last 20 years and very modern country — they should have followed the Norwegian model for oil wealth, instead they built an extractive and corrupt crime empire that has brought nothing but misery to Russia and all its neighbours. Look, they don't have to go back to the year 1547, but they have to retreat from Ukraine, they have to, there is no other way otherwise the security order of Europe is dead and we head into a world of pure chaos, the rule of the jungle. Russia has to give places like Kaliningrad a choice of self-determination. As long as Russia is centered around Moscow, this will never stop. Another would take Putin’s place. An empire won by war and conquest cannot sustain itself without war and conquest, and in its current shape and form, Russia is not fit for the 21st century. Shishkin: My country has fallen out of time’: Russian author Mikhail Shishkin’s The only way out is to inflict a military defeat on the Putin regime. Therefore, democratic countries must help the Ukrainians with everything they can and, above all, with weapons. After the war, the whole world will come to your aid to reconstruct what has been destroyed, and the country will be able to rebuild itself. Russia will lie in the ruins of the economy and in the ruins of consciousness. A new birth of my country is possible only through the complete destruction of the Putin regime. The empire must be amputated from the Russian person, like malignant cancer. This “hour zero” is vital for Russia. My country will have a future only if it passes through total defeat, as happened with Germany. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/apr/02/russian-writer-mikhail-shishkin-letter-ukrainian-invasion-anniversary-my-russia-war-peace
The Russians at the end of the Cold War. Actually offered up Kaliningrad to basically any neighbouring European country that wanted it. However nobody wanted about a million Russians in their country. As it would have destabilised Poland and Lithuania and Germany didn't want it back. With there being far too many future opportunities for Russia in the future. To start complaining about the treatment of their people. With deporting all of the Russians from the territory not being seen as political feasible by a European country in the 1990s. Stalin of course, deported all of the native Germans from it and moved the Russians in. When the annexed it. Which really should have told the Russians how little territorial ambitions Europe had.
Somehow, it didn't because I think we are not conversing in the same linguistic frame. Putin constantly talks about how he has been betrayed and deceived. Every action set every word uttered has somehow been viewed as the next insult followed by another provocation and ultimately in 2008 when Putin spoke in Munich, and when Georgia was attacked we should have understood what is going on, but we didn't. We cannot wait until Putin becomes "normal" because he is normal in world, but what this man sees as normal is insanity, and not just for Ukraine's sake, but for the sake of Europe this must end. I wish the Russians would end it, but they follow him in slavish worship just as the Germans followed Hitler. All my knowledge, all my words, all my wisdom, and here my Latin is at an end. There are no words to describe the madness Putin has unleashed. I know only one thing, with this regime, we cannot have peace because when Putin speaks of peace, he speaks ill of it. Russiae Imperium delendum est.
Part of the problem is that the current philosophy that's in Cavour at the moment in Russia. Is that Russia must expand or collapse. That Russia is so far behind the West, as many of the rules for international discourse were written during the period of the USSR. When Stalin and others were boycotting them. So that they're playing a game where they feel disadvantaged. Then you have Putin's place in Russian history. What will future generations think of him? As a dictator, who plundered the state's coffers or as the hero of the Russian Empire. Who reunited the countries of the USSR? He's 71 now and there are numerous rumors about his health. Time isn't really on his side. So he has to move now and move quickly or compete for position of the worst Tsar since at least Nicholas II.
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That’s why I hope the West will hurry up and stop being dependent on oil and other finite resources that support Russia and Arab countries. Once they’ll be irrelevant, they’ll finally stop messing around and be forced to behave.
You're reading the equivalent of Facebook comments... Of course it's deranged.
> How the actual fuk would we even try to denazify russia at this point? I'll just point out that the only way we know of to "denazify" a country from actual history is to totally and completely militarily defeat it.
And then occupy it for a really long time.
exactly. but this cant be done to a nuclear armed state. lets think back, would hitler who committed suicide have used nukes had he had them? so this means only the russians themselves can "denazify" russia which, i dont know, seems nearly impossible.
What is vk?
v kontakte Russian facebook
>How the actual fuk would we even try to denazify russia at this point? Sorry, but this reminded me of that Simpsons scene: “We haven’t tried anything and we’re out of ideas!”
That’s what people fail to understand. Germany wasn’t denazified because they lost a war and they just gratefully accepted they had been made delusional - they were FORCED to be denazified, to a degree that their entire state didn’t actually exist on paper for like a decade after WWII because it was divided up into zones and effective governance was done by the Allies. We will not be able to do the same to Russia unless there actually is an all out war and the west wins and even then Russia is times bigger than Germany ever was and Russia has had close to 80 years of heroism and propaganda pumped into its people how they are a divine nation of extraordinary people. You can’t just undo it in a year or even 10. Russia is kind of like North Korea… except more advanced and much larger and people in general are less controlled, but the mind twisting propaganda has gotten so much closer to NK levels in the last 10 years than they were in the previous 20 years. Honestly, we should probably wall off Russia and treat it as Russia was treated during the Cold War. At the very least, we are very much back in the Cold War now so we should go back to CW protocols. Front line states should be treated like CW states were. Trouble is, people don’t want to think we’re back in Cold War - they want back the year 2012 or something.
Best case scenario if russia simply falls apart and separates into independent states sort of speak and will be busy rebuilding their own shit. That would be ideal. Also can be wishful thinking though…
> ighting nato right now and wining I can't tell if it was supposed to be "winning" or "whining" which says something about the coherence referred to.
There was a time when many russians were ready to storm our country. they were sure that it´d be alright. they wore their dress set, and waltzed right in. it didnt end well. for them. we defended the everliving shit out of our country. 271,528 casualties. theirs. how do you reckon things will go with a country that does not underdo anything.
It didn’t end well for Finland either, though.
what wars do? we made their victory **pyrrhic** enough to change the main lines of history. we only provide one hell of a fight, far more severe than UA front unfortunately can but them yankees? they´ll bomb the opposition back to stoneage for saying hello wrong. so let them. death is preferable to russian rules anyway. bring it.
Remember that time 500 Syrian and Russian Wagner troops including tanks, armored personnel carriers and artillery attacked 40 American troops in Syria and had 200-300 casualties and the Americans had none? Air power is pretty effective, the article is well worth reading. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html
Yeah russia is dead if they fight NATO
I studied the US national security apparatus in school and part of that study was related to near-peer conflict spilling over from proxy wars. Apart from “near-peer” being a stretch in this instance, it’s important to note that in most simulations, RF aligned forces fail to get an appreciable number of aircraft out of the hangars, let alone off the ground. Outsourcing logistics is another huge liability, as is rail-reliance. The average Russian soldier does not have access to key battlefield technology (night vision, modern body armor, modern ground-based armor, etc) at scale and under duress and would likely be fighting a force decades ahead in training and equipment. What people fail to realize is that at the core of the US military industrial complex is a very simple idea. We bring artillery to knife fights.
They don’t even have optics for ever soldier
They don't even have eyes for every soldier
tbf the average person has less than two eyes
Russia makes a desert and calls it peace,
stupid's gonna stupid. in other news, water is wet.
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They can't even beat Ukraine. They would be absolutely trucked by the US in a conventional war.
Who cares what Russians think, all they do is cause the world problems while we need to unite to survive.
We cant ignore them.
>More often than others, militant men over 60 years of age speak out in favor of a nuclear strike. As a rule, they consider the decision to start a war in Ukraine to be correct. Growing up surrounded by USSR propaganda probably played a part.
They couldnt even beat a barely reformed Ukranian army with the same equipment as them. How the fuck they hope to do anything against 1 nato country let alone the US is honestly just funny at this point.
The power of propaganda. They should speak with their fellow countrymen shipped off to Ukraine and left to die. Also, prepared? Are they really " prepared"? That implies critical thinking, research, stockpiling etc. Something tells me they're not prepared.
Just a reminder that the last independent poll entity was highjack by the Russian government in 2016. There's no honest report on that kind of subjects. It's not a result of Russian believing in Propaganda. It's directly propaganda. Either they made up the number, or people reply what is expected of them.
lol for Russia a war between them and the U.S. has two outcomes: total defeat or mutual annihilation. They stand 0 chance.
The USA would have to hold back so they don't panic and use nukes. If Russia did not have nukes the US military would curbstomp them. But since that is not the world we live in, I think the US would limit themselves to avoid that outcome.
You don't need to think about it, the US is doing just that in Ukraine. They're stuck between how to ensure Ukraine wins without Russia kneejerking into dropping a nuke, which the US has already said would be an act of war and will induce a response against Russian assets. And yet I still wish we start giving Ukraine the good stuff and let them hit military targets in Russia.
Or we could cut off the Russian Trigger hand at the start of our operation.
“As sociologists note, Russians without higher education, low-income people and residents of small towns most often declare Russia’s victory in the world war.” - so pretty much the whole population. The greatest gift a nation can provide its people is health and education. Putin’s Russia gift is disinformation and poverty.
According to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), 56% of Russians aged 25–64 have a tertiary degree, which is 19 percentage points higher than the OECD average. I hate on Putin as much as the next guy, but there’s no need for misinformation against the regular Russian John Doe.
Raw numbers don't tell the real story of tertiary education in Russia. One of the biggest reasons for males in Russia to get it is not education, but exemption from conscription - as long as you're in uni you won't be conscripted. And if you pass a special military course in uni you will never be conscripted in life.
Some of the ideologically motivated degrees are worthless at best, harmful at worst. It's difficult to impose ideology on math, physics and chemistry, but stuff like the humanities, social sciences, theology, etc. are wildly unscientific in Russia.
Russia isn’t like the US or Europe, the population mostly lives in cities (around 75%)
I mean your choice is to agree about winning or to get sent to prison/war. Add that this is official media so its as far from truth as possible
Vodka, Tsar and Priest culture is a mad culture.
Definitely. Oxy, Trump and Bible Belt culture, on the other hand...
The only way they could expect victory against the US (or, Hell, even only the EU) is if they consider Nuclear murder-suicide a victory...
In case of a World War, I don't think US will fight Russia, though. Europe will fight Russia while US will fight China.
Why would China fight on the side of Russia?
The same reason Imperial Japan fought "on the side of" Nazi Germany
US doctrine is that they need to be able to fight in two major theaters at once an win both, so they will fight both places. But the main focus will differ. I have heard the US military is a logistics organization that dabbel in combat.
Even if that was the case which I highly doubt since I don't believe China would want anything to do with that whole mess, Europe would be more than enough against Russia both in man power by a large margin and eventually in logistics though we would fall behind in that aspect in the beginning since Russia is in full blown War economy right now.
U.S. can handle both russia and china because we're in it together. and besides NATO, we have our pacific and oceania friends, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. and let's not forget about these bro's -South Korea, Singapore, Vietnam, Philipines, Taiwan, Indonesia...i think Thailand would quickly come to reason as well, they just playin' these past few months. Pakistan reached out to U.S. for many times and i think it would be better to take them in instead of india, i think india would play neutrality card anyway. they're unreliable (at least under modi). when it would come to such scenario, i don't think Europe would fight russia alone, because U.S. doesn't need to focus purely on china. we (collective west) have more friends than those sinno-ork wankers so luckily U.S. will be able to operate on both fronts simultaneously.
Russian here. They are doing the same mistake that social researches have been saying for decades - public opinion polls are useless durning war time and with censorship present. If one of the answers could potentially get you in trouble, then it’s not representative. “Do you like what the Russian army is doing or would you like to spend up to 10 years in jail for discrediting the army?” Well, no surprise you get almost 90% of people saying they do.
This. Polls from Russia or any place with censorship are mostly useless
Lol, ok comrade
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The third Reich thought the same, until the world actually banded together against them.
Comparing Russia to the Reich is mindblowing. The Reich was a superpower. Arguably the strongest one of it's time. Russia is a decadent state. It still has some strenght but far from being the menace the Reich was.
Yet the mindset seems comparable. And you don't need actual facts to feel a certain way.
That's true. But the Reich had a reason to feel that way. If some minor things had changed they would have taken over Europe. Russia is just barking. But you are right, it's just propaganda and both relied/rely a lot in it
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They definitely lost WW1
The effects of propaganda.
Uhm… they don’t have victory with their neighbour but they will with USA? Sure.
I work with half a dozen russians occasionally, all living abroad for a decade at least, all in their 30's. They have access to the same media as you and I, but ALL are pro-putin and pro-war, except one (who is married to a ukrainian woman). That says it all.
If we don't believe their election results, why do we believe their poll/survey results? This is just Russian internal propaganda ("the nation is Strong and United! Everyone believes in Victory!") that happens to fit Western narratives ("they're all crazy") and so gets reprinted in English as fact. It's nonsense. I'm sure if I started cold-calling random Russians on the phone asking them if they support Great Leader Vova most would say yes but all that means is Russians are not free.
That's all the results of 25 years of putin's propaganda (+remains from the soviet times). I mean, yes, that's what a lot of russians are actually thinking now. But as a russian, I can't really blame them, cause most of the info they got from the "official" russian sources (which are forbidden by law to publish anything contradicting the propaganda), and even those who heavily use internet and can even say "I'm not watching TV" are still highly affected by the same agenda, sadly, from relatives, from environment, from collegues, etc. There is the saying that the first country captured by hitler was Germany. And from the last \~10-15 years in russia (since 2010-2012) I fully understand what does it means. Sadly, russia is captured by putin and his gang of closest friends.
Germany wasn't captured by Hitler. Germany created him. Same with Putin in Russia. You can't blame them? I can
When I'm drunk I also greatly overestimate my own strength. Lol
To make it a fairer match russia would need to fight each state separately. South Dakota has long odds but Id still probably bet on them before russia.
Russians are some of the dumbest people on this planet.
USA would be in Moscow in 2 weeks after the declaration. It is one thing fighting a neighbor with 40 million inhabitants and donated equipment. It is an entirely other thing to fight the most militant and technological nation on earth with 350 million inhabitants. The fact that Russians would expect victory in this scenario shows how completely brainwashed that nation is. Brain drain had led the iq to drop nationwide below 75.
Two weeks? prigozhin reached the outskirts of moscow in few hours.
Interesting. At least half of the Russian population has severe mental damage.
el oh el
1/2 of Russia is drunk...go home, seriously !
lol
LOL
I mean, depends on what they call victory Let's say they define as victory as in we destroyed the US with nuclear weapons The fact that the US also launched theirs and that russia will also be erased from the face of the earth ( if the earth hasn't been destroyed yet) is just a small detail that they won't mention in their last 5 minutes 🤷🏻♂️
The power of brainwashing
More than half of russians live in a propaganda world where Russia is destroying 500 HIMARS, 200 western MBT's and 50k soldiers each day and believe every word the kremlin tells them. Also the "victory over USA" is funny because not only would they be against USA but other 31 NATO countries. If they struggle in Ukraine alone with NATO surplus how well would it end for them if they start a war against better equipped and trained alliance.
Education means alot
Yeah, I wouldn’t trust polls in countries where you can get in jail for “wrong” answers.
Over half of russians are alcholics? Wow!
Idk what to say. Sound so dumb yet so russian
it's always Opposite Day in Lala land.
Do they expect victory like they've been expecting Europe to freeze over during winter for the past however many years? 🤣
Poland will wipe the floor with them. Japan will wipe the floor with them. Finland will wipe the floor with them. Sweden will wipe the floor with them. The floor was never this clean.
Life's never like the story books. Just like how in no country for old men, the main character dies off screen, unceremoniously. Life has no plot. Russia might just collapse or retreat within itself without fanfare without any grand war.
They are sooo cute. Small penis and great ambition.
Please inform them they are the fascists this time
Actually this is kinda based in an ironic kind of way - since the current stage of the war started good Russian vodka is hard to come by, as we can see it's used for increased domestic consumption.
America is a hot mess right now.....but they would absolutely and completely crush Russia. And their dicks would be super hard doing it
Roflololololol. Ok bro
This is indeed worthy of a LOL. Perhaps even a ROTFL. Mmmm, yes - definitely the latter.
And then there's the GOP talking about how nicely they get along with Russia
Propaganda is a hellva a drug.
Yeaahhhhhhh I don’t think so. Russias capability to invade = several weeks or months to prepare and fail. USA = legit minutes for a first response almost anywhere on the globe (that’s interesting), so maybe not in the middle of Russia but there are only forest anyways). USA can also quite quickly step foot on land And yes we’re counting conventional response.
In this hypothetical universe where they did go to war with the U.S. the Russians would still lose.
They can’t even take a quarter of Ukraine and they expect victory over US?? Apparently they have never experienced full synchronised bombardment of their country, lights out, ports destroyed, and if goes nuclear even worse. Because the Russian airforce and navy will be completely gone in a matter of hours and the stealth bombers will be all Over Russian airspace destroying command and control centres after a quick airspace dominance. How do they plan on achieving victory over the US 🤔🤔🤔??