Also the main gunpowder factory in France burnt on august 2022 :
[https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/faits-divers-justice/explosion-a-bergerac-il-y-a-eu-un-incendie-puis-une-explosion-selon-le-pdg-d-eurenco-1659604673](https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/faits-divers-justice/explosion-a-bergerac-il-y-a-eu-un-incendie-puis-une-explosion-selon-le-pdg-d-eurenco-1659604673)
They are allegedly trying to infiltrate the water supply infrastructure in Finland currently. Three break-ins to the same water treatment plant this year only.
Edit. Grammar
Russia is physically attacking NATO territory directly. Meanwhile NATO is still restricting ukraine's ability to attack Russian territory, for fear of escalation.
That's not even the escalation that should be applied here! The relevant tit-for-tat is to use NATO special forces to destory russian infrastructure in russia. Whether we take that step or not, letting ukraine mess up russia should be a given.
Idk if it's a good introduction, but Bellingcat purchased some data sets on the black market containing Russian cell phone records and passport data that let them track a bunch of GRU operations. This article is about the Czech operation:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/04/20/senior-gru-leader-directly-involved-with-czech-arms-depot-explosion/
It's so wild that its basically known with certainty but it's just brushed under the rug to avoid having to do anything with substance. This is how weak our governments are.
Multiple fires in Poland as well.
Russians agents are working overtime and we can only expect more of this over the decades.
It is crucial for everyone to understand that they will do everything to try to divide us and get us to fight internally and we must not let the. Europe and allies need to stick closer then ever and that is a responsibility resting on all of us.
Think before you go online and start criticizing anyone (other then Russia). Everything you say in public could have a cascading effect and will be used against us.
Agreed. We can meet them in Kyiv or we can meet them in Warsaw, but I donāt really see a reality where Russia sees the light and quits fucking around.
In their entire history they never did and every time they get beaten up they hold the grudge, reorganize, attack again.
I mean they still hate poland for 16th century beefs. They never move on and we should not let them
Yeah theyāve been stirring shit in my country as well and Iād be pretty cool with them taking a step back and realizing, like my government has to a certain degree, that fucking around in other nationās democracies usually goes sideways.
Funny no. Poland should absolutely LOATHE sweden. Same for Germany. But no. Look how adults do this. They get along with each other.
Russia is still a teen stuck in Empire Building Mode.
That's an important point, esp. since it's easy for anti-democratic organizations (not only Russia, also China, Hungary, PiS, ~~True Finns~~Sweden Democrats) to poison the well with paid trolls and bot farms.
Lets add german AFD to this aswell. More and more of their politicians get exposed for being on a Moscow payroll.
Its so funny that the Nazis of all people are the worst kind of national traitors.
Most of them, yes. There are exceptions though. Meloni's party is not pro-Russia, and in countries like Portugal, Spain or Greece it's the far-left that holds pro-Russia views. In some countries, Russia has puppets in both.
They're basically playing the divide and conquer game, which is what they do best. Right now their most effective tactic is to raise anti-immigrant sentiment while sending immigrants across the border into the EU, then have their far-right puppet parties make a fuss out of immigrants, tell every European they're in danger and get elected to give the Kremlin another OrbƔn-like puppet state in the EU.
You can add Reform UK to that list. Very public statements supporting Russia narrative without any provocation - they're promoting the line as "payment" for all the bot farm help they've been getting.
As much as PiS is authoritarian, they don't belong on this list. Their government was eager to help Ukraine when the invasion happened and they're quite anti-Russia.
Why is true Finns here? They are united against Russia and are working hard to keep russian border to finland closed not to get more russian agents in our country. True Finns mostly talk about the idiotic forest EU program which will cost Finland Billions and does not make any sense for Finns.
The issue is that Russia is working around election cycles and misinformation which we are starting to see it work. Until when will Europe and allies keep getting poked until they say it's enough? By the time we react it will be too late I fear
Yep. I can see Russia backing terrorist organizations within Western Europe to sow discord among the citizens there. They may even make sure that these terrorist target Russians in particular to make it seem like Russian security abroad is at risk, and justify further intervention.
This will only end when Russia is obliterated before they create a wider Axis of Iran etc. Nuclear war or not I'd take my chances on hitting them hard instead of being threatened for the rest of my life.
Unconventional warfare.
Going after utilities is common, wait until they start disabling [water](https://www.wired.com/story/cyber-army-of-russia-reborn-sandworm-us-cyberattacks/) systems and [energy](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/attacks-plots-similar-north-carolina-power-grid-attack/story?id=94574765) systems, similar attacks to those in the USA.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://abcnews.go.com/US/attacks-plots-similar-north-carolina-power-grid-attack/story?id=94574765](https://abcnews.go.com/US/attacks-plots-similar-north-carolina-power-grid-attack/story?id=94574765)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
The Freeport LNG plant (Texas) fire knocking it out at the moment Russian gas was being cut off always seemed suspicious too. Similar methods of āyou stop my gas I stop yoursā
I know someone who works at the Novo BagsvƦrd offices, at the fires were at pretty insignificant buildings containing basically nothing of value. The police are currently reporting that nothing about the fires look like foul play, and that if it was sabotage it would be a really pointless type of sabotage.
I personally have zero doubt that Russia is actively committing sabotage in Europe, but we also shouldn't blame every case of fire on foreign agents. It just spreads more fear than necessary.
At least for the first one, the fire was started by foreign workers working on the site. Although said workers had no valid permit to work at Novo Nordisk and no one saw the fire start so... Who knows at this point.
They blew up an arms depot and killed a couple people in like Slovakia or somewhere a couple years ago. This isn't even new behavior or the first time.
Europe needs to sack up, Putin is handing them an easy win here against the shitty Russian army with ample justification. Just go kick the damn Russians out of Ukraine. It's not a difficult operation and would also be a massive win in getting China to not act against Taiwan.
I honestly still have no clue how so many people in western europe and germany in particular, siding with russian position in the world. The plans of the russian government arent beneficial for anyone in europe, not even for their own supporters
It's both. To sell someone a lie, the best way is to attune your lie to their deeply held beliefs and get them emotional. Someone may hate liberalism but it doesn't necessarily follow that they have to love Russia if they do. That's where the propaganda comes in.
> To sell someone a lie, the best way is to attune your lie to their deeply held beliefs and get them emotional.
Sounds like the Fox "News" business model.
I would also add, that a lot of the sympathizers remember communist era and wish it went back to how things were. Not because they would be better, because they wouldn't, but because everyone else would be worse. "If I can't have a good life, better no one else has..."
Was talking to some American co-workers about the war in Ukraine and they were like "well you see, NATO was a threat" and I'm like want Russia a threat when they invaded Georgia in 2008, Crimea in 2014, and Ukraine in 2022?! Plus all the other bullshit in Syria and Africa.
Agree, but that requires that people have a deep understanding of history, and with people getting wasted on Tik Tok I donāt think itās going to be easy
āLe Russia is only invading Ukraine because we/NATO forced their hand!ā trope is the worst one of them all. Because Ukraine apparently isnāt allowed to decide its policies for itself? Really?
Indeed. This is exactly why Finland joined NATO. In fact now former President Sauli Niinistƶ of Finland specifically and publicly said that it was because of Putin trying to dictate the terms of how Finland is allowed to align itself which motivated those in government to go forward with the decision to apply to NATO (in addition to the overwhelming abundance of poll data which suggested the people wanted it as well). They essentially said āNo, you do not get to decide our alliances and major political decisions for us.ā
The stupidest part is that the conclusion then is the opposit - apparently Ukraine is so opposed to joining NATO, that despite NATO just dying to expand towards russian borders and begging Ukraine to join, they were just refusing to do so. Otherwise, these lunatics have a very difficult task of explaining why (a) Ukraine wants to join NATO + (b) NATO has an evil plan to expand towards russia = no Ukraine in NATO still?
People who believe this have never dealt with an abuser. Your very existence and needs to live are offensive to them. Let alone the fact that you have the audacity to have a different opinion than theirs.
They don't particulary support Russia, but are against the western leftish progress. They see the progressives as an dengerous trolls that try ruin europe and Russia as "enemy of the enemy". Europe having that hard situation.
They're anti-western and thus anyone anti-western = good. Their geopolitical understanding is on par with tankies.
Also let's not pretend the far-right gives a shit about Europe.
> Their geopolitical understanding is on par with tankies.
Even more ironic is that, in America at least, tankies almost unanimously side with Russia. It is so bizarre.
Imagine going from a college kid curious about politics to embracing Stalinism and defending anything they do, and even taking it a step further and just defending anything Russia long after Soviet Union fell and has become a right-wing authoritarian state.
No, they hate the US so much, they just started to support Russia and china. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" taken to literal.
SOURCE: My brother is one of those nutjobs.
And TikTok international version just happens to be banned in mainland China and Chinese TikTok (Douyin) is totally different there.
It is so blatantly clear tool for soft misinformation and even creating algorithm driven divide between boys and girls world views that it's truly sad.
Money (as in bribes) and/or a shared hate of liberal values. In parts of Eastern Germany, it's starting to become dangerous to support liberal/left positions. While Russia is a scary danger, the rot started within our societies.
It's our political class. The chancellor himself and his party entertain the Russian lie that defence was escalation. Add to that a concerted effort to undermine our political system and media landscape and a people that is less than knowledgeable about international affairs and you have yourself a fertile soil for idiotic takes on foreign and security policy.
Welcome to my hell.
The demagogues at the top make money off being contrarian traitors, their followers at the bottom do it because it makes them feel special and smart. Overall, the West has just totally let its guard down since the Cold War, and has been obliterated by anti-Western propaganda.
Abridged answer:
Leftist anti-imperialist-us-america views run rampart in (Western) Germany at least since the 1960s. Add a generous amount of russian indoctrination combined with almost no confrontation with the nazi history in the East for about 40 years and you get a perfect habitat for all kinds of pro russian sympathy / thoughts.
At its roots it's mostly a mixture of USA bad, therefore Russia Good, and an admiration of totalitarian / fascists Leaders. This is common in left and right movements and thus has a pretty broad base.
Many antivax / conspiracy social media groups were piloted from Russia. When the Ukraine war started they immediately pivoted to pro-russian propaganda. The people who were hooked to them largely followed.
What triggers me the most is people saying we should not support Ukraine because it could scalate the situation (lol) and we don't care about it they are far apart (Im Spaniard so I see this one a lot). Yeah mate letting Russia eat a neighbour every 4 years for sure won't affect us
This is what happens when you let the money of a country that actively seeks your destruction flow through your media and politicians, plain and simple.
Because the right wing nationalist are deep in the pocket of putin and create a much bigger enemy: The migrants.Ā
Undeniably there are problems, but these issues pale compared Ā to climate change, overaging, the current form of capitalism (50% of wealth in the hands of a few %, Ā 50% on the lower end have less than the top 1%)
We have forgotten and stopped repeating it. And during the silence, russia continued to toot their own horn. Putin barechested on a horse, russia strong memes etc.
We need to say it out loud and we need to say it with conviction again. Russia is the enemy. A russian person minding their own business is fine, but the state of russia is trying to destroy us.
Maybe we should start some fires in russia. But maybe they wouldn't fucking notice, as they have a fire or a flood due to their shitty infrastructure every other week or so.
They also said that Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine because it is stupid, they were right, unfortunately for them Russia has other priorities and it doesn't give a shit how many people suffer (or even which) as long as they get to bully other nations and steal a little more land they believe they are entitled to.
Well it needs to start being seen as such, to be fair...
Enough consistent infrastructure sabotage could catastrophically cripple a nation. At what point, when half your country is on fire do you say "ok, this definitely seems like an act of aggression."
Comments like this honestly worry me that having saboteurs and assassins running around willy nilly is being normalised.
I know its a joke, but i always feel weird when people say 2016 and particularly Harambes Death was the beginning of the change when there was something else that happened in 2016 that had had ripples all around the world....
Depending on where you are, yes.
Some communities are indeed making that implication.
Others skip that part and pretend that nothing else happened in 2016 that could have lead to where we are.
You can tell where you are by how they're discussing other topics like pop-culture or anything involving the LGBTQ+ community.
In my personal opinion, you'll mainly find both here since this is mainly sub for funny ha-ha's, therefore you'll find people in here who both are implying that and are not.
The prologue started almost a decade ago already, first in social media, then continued through media outlets, and finally took physical shape in social movements and political parties in both sides of the spectrum al across the western world. Whatever is now in motion already has too much inertia to be stopped after some 8 - 9 years of rolling downhill.
Say what you want about Russiaās military shortcomings, they fractured a civilization just through Facebook groups and telegram chats long before firing the first shot, and we havenāt still realized the full extent of it all
I agree. I'm pretty sure those propaganda farms we hear about from time to time are just the tip of the iceberg. Russia is running a tightly controlled propaganda campaign targeting all major democracies, using customized strategies for each country. They exploit real historical divisions and blow them out of proportion, using every social media platform, including Reddit. They are probably tracking all their progress on a world map with detailed planning and objectives. They turn politicians by using bribes and blackmail. They are waging an invisible propaganda war against the whole world.
Too many people take peace and western democracy and all that good stuff for granted.
Peace has always been ultimately paid for with blood and people often forget that or never even realize it.
It was in large part thanks to the devastation from World Wars and then Cold War that Europe was able to become mostly "peaceful" and stop fighting itself and the foundations for EU were able to be established.
Freedom ain't free and peace ain't free either.
If you want peace you should prepare for war.
Can someone explain how /why aren't these things treated as an act of war? WW1 started because some guy shot a prince on an alley, these should count too.
Different times. Public sentiment will absolutely not support war for anything less than the absolutely unavoidable case, whatever that may be. The modern person in the west has a good life with money to spend, shelter, infinite food, family, etc. They're not going to give it up for a fire in some factory.
Yeah unavoidable as in when the war reaches your doorstep, you have no option, but to go die for your country to defend it.
No country in Europe is strong enough to take on Russia alone, but everyone would prefer each country did fight Russia alone so they donāt have to go die for another country.
Once the war becomes unavoidable for your country and no one wants to help, you will surrender instead of sending men to die. Then same happens with the next country. A country like Russia can take each country like this slowly over years or decades one by one.
The only way to avoid this is by every European country choosing to send men to die at the same time to the attacked country or attack before that. Putin is pushing boundaries constantly and eventually he will cross a boundary with no return. At some point weāll have to decide.
Because, in an attempt to reduce the amount of war and death in the world, we have a lot of rules in place so that we don't take small acts of aggression too seriously.
It has largely worked for multiple decades.
Russia has been engaging in MOOTW (military operations other than war) against NATO since at least 2014, and probably before.
I'm not sure why there's been minimal return operations...
Basicly it is.
It is not black and white as you would think though as the sabotages might have been carried out by GRU recruited agents inside EU for example. It is really hard to show that Kreml would have directly given the mission. There are also almost certainly criminal organizations inside Europe that are getting paid to do sabotage among other things. It is highly unlikely this sabotages are carried out by official operatives in the GRU that would be easily tied to Kreml.
Donāt forget misguided protest organizations being manipulated into doing the dirty work of foreign adversaries. āOh, it wasnāt Russia, it was those darn radical anti-war activists who set fire to the gunpowder factory.ā
To quote the former president of Russia, I selected the most unhinged parts:
> "We need to (respond). Not only the authorities, the state, but all our people in general. After all, they - the U.S. and its crappy allies - have declared a war on us without rules!," Medvedev wrote on his official Telegram channel, which has over 1.3 million followers.
>
> "Every day we should try to do maximum harm to those countries that have imposed these restrictions. Harm their economies, their institutions and their rulers. Harm the well-being of their citizens, their confidence in the future."
> In his latest comments he spoke of the need to find critical vulnerabilities in Western economies, to target energy, industry, transport, banking and social services, and to stir up social tensions.
>
> "Are they screaming about our use of fake news? Let's turn their lives into a crazy nightmare in which they can't distinguish wild fiction from the realities of the day, infernal evil from the routine of life," he wrote.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russians-told-mobilise-inflict-maximum-harm-west-response-sanctions-2024-06-13/
If you can prove it, definitely. If you want to act on it and retaliate is another story. Personally, I'd believe this would be a good reason to finally send Taurus missiles and let the UAF blow up the stupid Kerch bridge as a small retaliation.
Can we please stop posting this before we have hard confirmation?
Here are things for you to consider in this context:
* Police and insurance investigators said it was a technical defect that caused the fire (German article regarding this here: [https://www.tagesspiegel.de/grossbrand-in-berlin-spekulationen-zu-brand-polizei-geht-von-defekt-aus-11934392.html](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/grossbrand-in-berlin-spekulationen-zu-brand-polizei-geht-von-defekt-aus-11934392.html) )
* The Diehl factory in question is of no strategic importance. The factory is not even part of Diehl's defense branches. It belongs to the automotive branch that produces things for car manufacturers.
* Politico is owned by Axel Springer, who also owns BILD.
> Police and insurance investigators said it was a technical defect that caused the fire
Police and insurance assumed it to be a technical defect while saying sabotage could not be ruled out
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russian-saboteurs-behind-arson-attackat-german-factory-c13b4ece
In the case of Diehl, electronic-communications intercepts that provided evidence of Russiaās involvement werenāt admissible in German courts, preventing authorities from clearly attributing the attack and pursuing criminal charges, two German officials said.
> The Diehl factory in question is of no strategic importance. The factory is not even part of Diehl's defense branches. It belongs to the automotive branch that produces things for car manufacturers.
It's state sponsored terrorism. The saboteur arrested in Czechia targeted busses
>while saying sabotage could not be ruled out
If you ask them if they can rule out sabotage, then probably they will say no unless they exactly know the cause and what led to it.
I would not even rule out sabotage, but I also don't trust any Axel Springer owned media to report the truth.
>two German officials said.
Who are they? Who did speak to them?
This economist article gives the context i think you're asking for. Looks at the pattern in totality, alongside the range of cases that have seen states make arrests accusing suspects of arson on behalf of a foreign state actor - or Wagner, in the UK case.
On this case specifically, Politico isn't the only one to be reporting accusations of sabotage. WSJ and the telegraph, two papers with different owners, are also carrying this line. Yes, it's right to take a sources motives and underlying political stance into account, but in this instance you'd be mistaken in thinking this is a view taken blonly to satisfy a particular media mogul.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/05/12/russia-is-ramping-up-sabotage-across-europe
> When "the orange one" is sworn in
Not "when", "if". We gotta go vote. I'm a lifelong Republican, but I'm voting for Joe. Trump cannot be allowed to win.
The whole world is convinced America is going to become a Theocratic Russian and Chinese allied dictatorship that might last couple decades with the probability of Trump winning goes higher. New SCOTUS ruling essentially makes Trump a god emperor and Project 2025 is a promise of American downfall.
UK seems to be preparing a NATO-like organisation that will replace US centric NATO. Ukraine and Taiwan is considering giving up and Georgia seems to have given all hope up.
On the other side China is preparing to replace US as the global super power, BRICS is preparing to replace USD while Russia and Iran are keen on completely banishing all American influence all around the world.
I donāt know for sure if Trump is going to win but the whole world is convinced that there will be an Russian, Iranian and Chinese puppet American dictatorship for god knows how long. As we saw with Jan 6 Trump simply does not want to leave the office ever and with the new SCOTUS ruling he will be allowed not to.
Would be great if politicians and overall politics would just stfu and help. It's annoying that project 2025 is/might be coming (idk I live in Europe) and they focus on that rather than halting talks about it and helping the 2 year war.
>German police said the investigation was still ongoing and that, "At this stage, a technical defect is assumed to be the cause of the fire."
>Thomas Hƶr, CEO of Diehl Metal Applications, told Berlin broadcaster RBB last week that a fire insurance company had come to the same conclusion.
>German tabloid Bild last week reported that a foreign intelligence service had informed the German secret services about concrete indications of Russia being involved in the outbreak of the factory fire.
I can absolutely believe Russia did this, but this is very far from any prove that's what happened. Nobody in any official capacity has claimed this was sabotage or even intentional and the only source is some Bild (trash newspaper) article
Seems a bit sus. The police and the fire insurance company came to the conclusion it was a defect.
Some kind of secret service of another country told the German secret service that Russia recruited random criminals off telegram to set fire to the factory? The evidence is not admissable in German courts, and the source is anonymous?
Surely, you have to realize how dumb this sounds. Like a random criminal off telegram managed to fool the fire insurance company and the police? And they somehow know of this criminal ans can't do anything to him?
Lol I am as anti Putin as it gets in Germany. But Diehl and the police says it was a electrical defect. Only ask says otherwise. I am sure Russia does a lot of shit in Germany but this seems to be something else.
Luckily itās almost summer. Then we can welcome our upper-middle class Russian friends back at the French and Italian Rivieras for a well-deserved holiday after quite a stressful year.
This is directly from the article:
"German police said the investigation was still ongoing and that, "At this stage, a technical defect is assumed to be the cause of the fire."
Thomas Hƶr, CEO of Diehl Metal Applications, told Berlin broadcaster RBB last week that a fire insurance company had come to the same conclusion.
But according to the WSJ, experienced professionals were behind the fire."
Police and CEO of the company say it is caused by a defect. But WSJ knows better?
There is no proof for that.
Not only had that factory nothing to do with arms production,
Police as well as insurance investigators have come to the same conclusion, that it was a technical defect.
I can't stand Russia, but we must not get hysterical
Well th big question is what is Germany going to do about it? The sad truth is that Germany is currently powerless against Russia thanks to decades worth of underinvestment in our army and the ridiculous Policy position that we should not have strategic nuclear missiles.
> the ridiculous Policy position that we should not have strategic nuclear missiles.
It was the price "they" demanded for Germany regaining full sovereignity and its ticket into NATO.
As a person who loathes propaganda from any side I am still trying to the report that claims Russia put the factory on fire. Meanwhile the subtitle of the article is... "German police believe a technical defect caused the blaze, but security officials have blamed Russia."
In Finland Russian agents have been trying to get into water and electricity distribution facilities, most likely to sabotage them.
Russia apparently is already waging war against NATO countries. Not sure why governments aren't calling them out. Perhaps lack or proof or stuff is happening, but not in public light.
We should really start sabotaging and in general be more active in this conflict. We should have Putin killed by drone or something. They canāt keep getting away with this.
I wonder if the three fires at Novo Nordisk factory in Denmark is chance/normal or sabotage as well
Also the main gunpowder factory in France burnt on august 2022 : [https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/faits-divers-justice/explosion-a-bergerac-il-y-a-eu-un-incendie-puis-une-explosion-selon-le-pdg-d-eurenco-1659604673](https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/faits-divers-justice/explosion-a-bergerac-il-y-a-eu-un-incendie-puis-une-explosion-selon-le-pdg-d-eurenco-1659604673)
And the weapons depot explosion in Czech Republic. Or allegedly the recent arson attempt on Czech public transport.
The weapons depot one has been pretty conclusively proven to be Russia
the ones in Bulgaria too. They even tried to poison Gebrev.
That was actually connected to the Czech weapons depot...
They are allegedly trying to infiltrate the water supply infrastructure in Finland currently. Three break-ins to the same water treatment plant this year only. Edit. Grammar
Russia is physically attacking NATO territory directly. Meanwhile NATO is still restricting ukraine's ability to attack Russian territory, for fear of escalation. That's not even the escalation that should be applied here! The relevant tit-for-tat is to use NATO special forces to destory russian infrastructure in russia. Whether we take that step or not, letting ukraine mess up russia should be a given.
Any recommended links to learn more ?
Idk if it's a good introduction, but Bellingcat purchased some data sets on the black market containing Russian cell phone records and passport data that let them track a bunch of GRU operations. This article is about the Czech operation: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/04/20/senior-gru-leader-directly-involved-with-czech-arms-depot-explosion/
Wow ! Bellingcat are pretty amazing, thanks for the link !
BCs work on catching the poison assassins was insanely brilliant. Balls of steel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions
Cheers and thank you. š
The catastrophic malfunction in an OMV refinery in Austria in 2022, shortly after OMV announced it wants to pull out of Russia, was also pretty sus.
It's so wild that its basically known with certainty but it's just brushed under the rug to avoid having to do anything with substance. This is how weak our governments are.
Well that one is almost too obvious
Multiple fires in Poland as well. Russians agents are working overtime and we can only expect more of this over the decades. It is crucial for everyone to understand that they will do everything to try to divide us and get us to fight internally and we must not let the. Europe and allies need to stick closer then ever and that is a responsibility resting on all of us. Think before you go online and start criticizing anyone (other then Russia). Everything you say in public could have a cascading effect and will be used against us.
I still dont get how at least the military factors do not have more protection.
I donāt understand how the Ateams not deployed
We need to send soldiers to Ukraine. We are already at war.
Agreed. We can meet them in Kyiv or we can meet them in Warsaw, but I donāt really see a reality where Russia sees the light and quits fucking around.
In their entire history they never did and every time they get beaten up they hold the grudge, reorganize, attack again. I mean they still hate poland for 16th century beefs. They never move on and we should not let them
Yeah theyāve been stirring shit in my country as well and Iād be pretty cool with them taking a step back and realizing, like my government has to a certain degree, that fucking around in other nationās democracies usually goes sideways.
Funny no. Poland should absolutely LOATHE sweden. Same for Germany. But no. Look how adults do this. They get along with each other. Russia is still a teen stuck in Empire Building Mode.
If Russia wins the White House again, they won't ever have to
That's an important point, esp. since it's easy for anti-democratic organizations (not only Russia, also China, Hungary, PiS, ~~True Finns~~Sweden Democrats) to poison the well with paid trolls and bot farms.
Lets add german AFD to this aswell. More and more of their politicians get exposed for being on a Moscow payroll. Its so funny that the Nazis of all people are the worst kind of national traitors.
Isn't that nearly all far right parties in Europe? Iirc Le pen and wilders also have close connections to Russia.
Most of them, yes. There are exceptions though. Meloni's party is not pro-Russia, and in countries like Portugal, Spain or Greece it's the far-left that holds pro-Russia views. In some countries, Russia has puppets in both. They're basically playing the divide and conquer game, which is what they do best. Right now their most effective tactic is to raise anti-immigrant sentiment while sending immigrants across the border into the EU, then have their far-right puppet parties make a fuss out of immigrants, tell every European they're in danger and get elected to give the Kremlin another OrbƔn-like puppet state in the EU.
You can add Reform UK to that list. Very public statements supporting Russia narrative without any provocation - they're promoting the line as "payment" for all the bot farm help they've been getting.
As much as PiS is authoritarian, they don't belong on this list. Their government was eager to help Ukraine when the invasion happened and they're quite anti-Russia.
Why is true Finns here? They are united against Russia and are working hard to keep russian border to finland closed not to get more russian agents in our country. True Finns mostly talk about the idiotic forest EU program which will cost Finland Billions and does not make any sense for Finns.
The issue is that Russia is working around election cycles and misinformation which we are starting to see it work. Until when will Europe and allies keep getting poked until they say it's enough? By the time we react it will be too late I fear
Yep. I can see Russia backing terrorist organizations within Western Europe to sow discord among the citizens there. They may even make sure that these terrorist target Russians in particular to make it seem like Russian security abroad is at risk, and justify further intervention.
This will only end when Russia is obliterated before they create a wider Axis of Iran etc. Nuclear war or not I'd take my chances on hitting them hard instead of being threatened for the rest of my life.
or Romania. >A blast followed by a fire occurred on June 21, 2023 at Romania's largest oil refinery, Petromidia, located on the Black Sea coast
There's been a lot of train derailments from the huge iron mines in Swedish Kiruna lately
Wasn't there a fire in an ammunition factory as well?
Unconventional warfare. Going after utilities is common, wait until they start disabling [water](https://www.wired.com/story/cyber-army-of-russia-reborn-sandworm-us-cyberattacks/) systems and [energy](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/attacks-plots-similar-north-carolina-power-grid-attack/story?id=94574765) systems, similar attacks to those in the USA.
Water systems have recently been broken into and energy systems have been surveilled with drones in Finland.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://abcnews.go.com/US/attacks-plots-similar-north-carolina-power-grid-attack/story?id=94574765](https://abcnews.go.com/US/attacks-plots-similar-north-carolina-power-grid-attack/story?id=94574765)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Warehouse burning in Finland too, not a coincidence
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't think the Kesko warehouse fire was sabotage, but the series of water management facility break-ins reeks of Russia.
Also a lot of break ins to water management facilities in Finland. Coincidence...? I think not.
The Freeport LNG plant (Texas) fire knocking it out at the moment Russian gas was being cut off always seemed suspicious too. Similar methods of āyou stop my gas I stop yoursā
I know someone who works at the Novo BagsvƦrd offices, at the fires were at pretty insignificant buildings containing basically nothing of value. The police are currently reporting that nothing about the fires look like foul play, and that if it was sabotage it would be a really pointless type of sabotage. I personally have zero doubt that Russia is actively committing sabotage in Europe, but we also shouldn't blame every case of fire on foreign agents. It just spreads more fear than necessary.
Fear is what is needed to confront them meaningful and do a no fly zone
Plus atm most of the uknranian weapon supply comes from south korea because european factories cannot keep pace with the war demand.
At least for the first one, the fire was started by foreign workers working on the site. Although said workers had no valid permit to work at Novo Nordisk and no one saw the fire start so... Who knows at this point.
They blew up an arms depot and killed a couple people in like Slovakia or somewhere a couple years ago. This isn't even new behavior or the first time. Europe needs to sack up, Putin is handing them an easy win here against the shitty Russian army with ample justification. Just go kick the damn Russians out of Ukraine. It's not a difficult operation and would also be a massive win in getting China to not act against Taiwan.
Bulgarian ammo depots blowing up? Anyone?
I honestly still have no clue how so many people in western europe and germany in particular, siding with russian position in the world. The plans of the russian government arent beneficial for anyone in europe, not even for their own supporters
They have been brainwashed into the mentality āthey only do it because we threaten themā
Yep. Russian propaganda worked well.
Russian propaganda worked and still working well. It's a nightmare how naive our politics are that they still allow it.
I don't even think it's that, they hate liberalsm and they see russia as their ally.
It's both. To sell someone a lie, the best way is to attune your lie to their deeply held beliefs and get them emotional. Someone may hate liberalism but it doesn't necessarily follow that they have to love Russia if they do. That's where the propaganda comes in.
> To sell someone a lie, the best way is to attune your lie to their deeply held beliefs and get them emotional. Sounds like the Fox "News" business model.
> they see russia as their ally russia doesn't see them as an ally tho, more like tools or the traditional "useful idiot"
I would also add, that a lot of the sympathizers remember communist era and wish it went back to how things were. Not because they would be better, because they wouldn't, but because everyone else would be worse. "If I can't have a good life, better no one else has..."
That sounds like a very russian thing to say
The irony is, they probably would have a better life if they could stop with the whole Corruption as a Culture nonsense.
That's certainly the case in America. We got huge populism brainrot right now.
Was talking to some American co-workers about the war in Ukraine and they were like "well you see, NATO was a threat" and I'm like want Russia a threat when they invaded Georgia in 2008, Crimea in 2014, and Ukraine in 2022?! Plus all the other bullshit in Syria and Africa.
They also believe that the economic hardship they are experiencing is because the government is spending too much money on helping Ukraine
Appeasement doesn't work with Dictators. The Germans, of all people, should know that.
Agree, but that requires that people have a deep understanding of history, and with people getting wasted on Tik Tok I donāt think itās going to be easy
Yeah, people donāt like to think too much. But they like to follow all the shitty conspiracies like sheep.
āLe Russia is only invading Ukraine because we/NATO forced their hand!ā trope is the worst one of them all. Because Ukraine apparently isnāt allowed to decide its policies for itself? Really?
It doesn't matter either way. Russia attempting to dictate who WE align with is a direct threat.
Indeed. This is exactly why Finland joined NATO. In fact now former President Sauli Niinistƶ of Finland specifically and publicly said that it was because of Putin trying to dictate the terms of how Finland is allowed to align itself which motivated those in government to go forward with the decision to apply to NATO (in addition to the overwhelming abundance of poll data which suggested the people wanted it as well). They essentially said āNo, you do not get to decide our alliances and major political decisions for us.ā
The stupidest part is that the conclusion then is the opposit - apparently Ukraine is so opposed to joining NATO, that despite NATO just dying to expand towards russian borders and begging Ukraine to join, they were just refusing to do so. Otherwise, these lunatics have a very difficult task of explaining why (a) Ukraine wants to join NATO + (b) NATO has an evil plan to expand towards russia = no Ukraine in NATO still?
People who believe this have never dealt with an abuser. Your very existence and needs to live are offensive to them. Let alone the fact that you have the audacity to have a different opinion than theirs.
Like even if that was the case, why would you still side with them. Russians have no place in this world anymore. They need to go like nazis in 1945.
The classic mentality of a brainwashed victim towards a narc bully.
They don't particulary support Russia, but are against the western leftish progress. They see the progressives as an dengerous trolls that try ruin europe and Russia as "enemy of the enemy". Europe having that hard situation.
They're anti-western and thus anyone anti-western = good. Their geopolitical understanding is on par with tankies. Also let's not pretend the far-right gives a shit about Europe.
> Their geopolitical understanding is on par with tankies. Even more ironic is that, in America at least, tankies almost unanimously side with Russia. It is so bizarre. Imagine going from a college kid curious about politics to embracing Stalinism and defending anything they do, and even taking it a step further and just defending anything Russia long after Soviet Union fell and has become a right-wing authoritarian state.
No, they hate the US so much, they just started to support Russia and china. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" taken to literal. SOURCE: My brother is one of those nutjobs.
something in the lines of: the mainstream media is lying, i trust my tiktok/meta news source cause he has no agenda, surely
Because TikTok-Journalists have a better reputation / educational background!!!
he has my countries flag as his profile photo, he wants the best for us !!1
And TikTok international version just happens to be banned in mainland China and Chinese TikTok (Douyin) is totally different there. It is so blatantly clear tool for soft misinformation and even creating algorithm driven divide between boys and girls world views that it's truly sad.
Actions like in this article are subtle enough to easily be dismissed as fake news or never even heard of by some people
Money (as in bribes) and/or a shared hate of liberal values. In parts of Eastern Germany, it's starting to become dangerous to support liberal/left positions. While Russia is a scary danger, the rot started within our societies.
They afraid of the gays
It's our political class. The chancellor himself and his party entertain the Russian lie that defence was escalation. Add to that a concerted effort to undermine our political system and media landscape and a people that is less than knowledgeable about international affairs and you have yourself a fertile soil for idiotic takes on foreign and security policy. Welcome to my hell.
The demagogues at the top make money off being contrarian traitors, their followers at the bottom do it because it makes them feel special and smart. Overall, the West has just totally let its guard down since the Cold War, and has been obliterated by anti-Western propaganda.
Abridged answer: Leftist anti-imperialist-us-america views run rampart in (Western) Germany at least since the 1960s. Add a generous amount of russian indoctrination combined with almost no confrontation with the nazi history in the East for about 40 years and you get a perfect habitat for all kinds of pro russian sympathy / thoughts. At its roots it's mostly a mixture of USA bad, therefore Russia Good, and an admiration of totalitarian / fascists Leaders. This is common in left and right movements and thus has a pretty broad base.
they hate usa and eu
Many antivax / conspiracy social media groups were piloted from Russia. When the Ukraine war started they immediately pivoted to pro-russian propaganda. The people who were hooked to them largely followed.
"But, but, but have you seen the Dƶner prices???"
most people are idiots
What triggers me the most is people saying we should not support Ukraine because it could scalate the situation (lol) and we don't care about it they are far apart (Im Spaniard so I see this one a lot). Yeah mate letting Russia eat a neighbour every 4 years for sure won't affect us
This is what happens when you let the money of a country that actively seeks your destruction flow through your media and politicians, plain and simple.
Because the right wing nationalist are deep in the pocket of putin and create a much bigger enemy: The migrants.Ā Undeniably there are problems, but these issues pale compared Ā to climate change, overaging, the current form of capitalism (50% of wealth in the hands of a few %, Ā 50% on the lower end have less than the top 1%)
We have forgotten and stopped repeating it. And during the silence, russia continued to toot their own horn. Putin barechested on a horse, russia strong memes etc. We need to say it out loud and we need to say it with conviction again. Russia is the enemy. A russian person minding their own business is fine, but the state of russia is trying to destroy us.
Who cut those German oil pipes a while back?
Maybe we should start some fires in russia. But maybe they wouldn't fucking notice, as they have a fire or a flood due to their shitty infrastructure every other week or so.
Recently the incidents in russia were claimed by russian resistance. The derailed trains and various explosions/fires.
that's already been happening.
Time for France to put that "we nuke as a warning" mandate into practice.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'll struggle to notice at this point.
But russia wouldn't dare to attack NATO members, it is stuck in Ukraine and Europe is perfectly save /s
They also said that Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine because it is stupid, they were right, unfortunately for them Russia has other priorities and it doesn't give a shit how many people suffer (or even which) as long as they get to bully other nations and steal a little more land they believe they are entitled to.
They assumed Russia acted rational. Attacking Ukraine IS stupid, but yet here we are.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Boiling frogs
To be fair, sabotage is generally not considered the same as a military attack
Well it needs to start being seen as such, to be fair... Enough consistent infrastructure sabotage could catastrophically cripple a nation. At what point, when half your country is on fire do you say "ok, this definitely seems like an act of aggression." Comments like this honestly worry me that having saboteurs and assassins running around willy nilly is being normalised.
Slow motion WW3
Not really slow considering whatās happening in USA, Middle East and China right now. It feels like we are living in the prolog to some WW3 novel.
Harambe was the opening shot
Harambe was the Franz Ferdinand of our time.
This whole time, it's all been about trying to keep the dicks out
Harambe was in a rock band?
https://preview.redd.it/otvbimox9es61.jpg?auto=webp&s=985c4eb71de30dd172e32a88f27444a008789012
I know its a joke, but i always feel weird when people say 2016 and particularly Harambes Death was the beginning of the change when there was something else that happened in 2016 that had had ripples all around the world....
Aren't people implying harambe's death LED to trump's election?
Depending on where you are, yes. Some communities are indeed making that implication. Others skip that part and pretend that nothing else happened in 2016 that could have lead to where we are. You can tell where you are by how they're discussing other topics like pop-culture or anything involving the LGBTQ+ community. In my personal opinion, you'll mainly find both here since this is mainly sub for funny ha-ha's, therefore you'll find people in here who both are implying that and are not.
trump winning in 2016 will be looked at as a state change moment in history.
I was only 20 and now close to a third of my life has been this shit
Brexit and Trump's election all happened after Harambe's death.
Dicks out for Harambe.
It's not WW3, it's a new hybrid Cold War.
The prologue started almost a decade ago already, first in social media, then continued through media outlets, and finally took physical shape in social movements and political parties in both sides of the spectrum al across the western world. Whatever is now in motion already has too much inertia to be stopped after some 8 - 9 years of rolling downhill. Say what you want about Russiaās military shortcomings, they fractured a civilization just through Facebook groups and telegram chats long before firing the first shot, and we havenāt still realized the full extent of it all
I agree. I'm pretty sure those propaganda farms we hear about from time to time are just the tip of the iceberg. Russia is running a tightly controlled propaganda campaign targeting all major democracies, using customized strategies for each country. They exploit real historical divisions and blow them out of proportion, using every social media platform, including Reddit. They are probably tracking all their progress on a world map with detailed planning and objectives. They turn politicians by using bribes and blackmail. They are waging an invisible propaganda war against the whole world.
Too many people take peace and western democracy and all that good stuff for granted. Peace has always been ultimately paid for with blood and people often forget that or never even realize it. It was in large part thanks to the devastation from World Wars and then Cold War that Europe was able to become mostly "peaceful" and stop fighting itself and the foundations for EU were able to be established. Freedom ain't free and peace ain't free either. If you want peace you should prepare for war.
Can someone explain how /why aren't these things treated as an act of war? WW1 started because some guy shot a prince on an alley, these should count too.
Different times. Public sentiment will absolutely not support war for anything less than the absolutely unavoidable case, whatever that may be. The modern person in the west has a good life with money to spend, shelter, infinite food, family, etc. They're not going to give it up for a fire in some factory.
Yeah unavoidable as in when the war reaches your doorstep, you have no option, but to go die for your country to defend it. No country in Europe is strong enough to take on Russia alone, but everyone would prefer each country did fight Russia alone so they donāt have to go die for another country. Once the war becomes unavoidable for your country and no one wants to help, you will surrender instead of sending men to die. Then same happens with the next country. A country like Russia can take each country like this slowly over years or decades one by one. The only way to avoid this is by every European country choosing to send men to die at the same time to the attacked country or attack before that. Putin is pushing boundaries constantly and eventually he will cross a boundary with no return. At some point weāll have to decide.
Because of the existence of nuclear weapons.
Because, in an attempt to reduce the amount of war and death in the world, we have a lot of rules in place so that we don't take small acts of aggression too seriously. It has largely worked for multiple decades.
This is an act of war is it not?
Russia has been engaging in MOOTW (military operations other than war) against NATO since at least 2014, and probably before. I'm not sure why there's been minimal return operations...
> I'm not sure why there's been minimal return operations "We can't risk escalating"
I am sure why, because we have no backbone.
Basicly it is. It is not black and white as you would think though as the sabotages might have been carried out by GRU recruited agents inside EU for example. It is really hard to show that Kreml would have directly given the mission. There are also almost certainly criminal organizations inside Europe that are getting paid to do sabotage among other things. It is highly unlikely this sabotages are carried out by official operatives in the GRU that would be easily tied to Kreml.
Donāt forget misguided protest organizations being manipulated into doing the dirty work of foreign adversaries. āOh, it wasnāt Russia, it was those darn radical anti-war activists who set fire to the gunpowder factory.ā
To quote the former president of Russia, I selected the most unhinged parts: > "We need to (respond). Not only the authorities, the state, but all our people in general. After all, they - the U.S. and its crappy allies - have declared a war on us without rules!," Medvedev wrote on his official Telegram channel, which has over 1.3 million followers. > > "Every day we should try to do maximum harm to those countries that have imposed these restrictions. Harm their economies, their institutions and their rulers. Harm the well-being of their citizens, their confidence in the future." > In his latest comments he spoke of the need to find critical vulnerabilities in Western economies, to target energy, industry, transport, banking and social services, and to stir up social tensions. > > "Are they screaming about our use of fake news? Let's turn their lives into a crazy nightmare in which they can't distinguish wild fiction from the realities of the day, infernal evil from the routine of life," he wrote. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russians-told-mobilise-inflict-maximum-harm-west-response-sanctions-2024-06-13/
If you can prove it, definitely. If you want to act on it and retaliate is another story. Personally, I'd believe this would be a good reason to finally send Taurus missiles and let the UAF blow up the stupid Kerch bridge as a small retaliation.
Fellas I don't wanna go to war. I can barely go to work without anxiety.
It's better to go to war, than to have war go to you.
Ah yea all the spy and hack stuff the last decade is not a war, just friendly banter..get it.
There is difference. Spying will always be present and it's considered *okayish*. Russia has gone kinetic and should be punished for that
*It's just a prank bro* -Russia, probably
There has been storage fires in Finland and also attempts to get in water towers.
i imagine the same exact scene of the finnish guy saying "perkele sihen et koske satana" at a bear, but to a russian
Well, maybe we should start returning the favour
Ask your representatives to allow Ukraine strikes in deep russia, and AFU will gladly do this for you.
kick out all the russians working in their embassies etc in EU. it should have been done long ago
One is still interested in being able to communicate between countries. Diplomats are both a benefit to the host and guest country - even in wartime.
Can we please stop posting this before we have hard confirmation? Here are things for you to consider in this context: * Police and insurance investigators said it was a technical defect that caused the fire (German article regarding this here: [https://www.tagesspiegel.de/grossbrand-in-berlin-spekulationen-zu-brand-polizei-geht-von-defekt-aus-11934392.html](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/grossbrand-in-berlin-spekulationen-zu-brand-polizei-geht-von-defekt-aus-11934392.html) ) * The Diehl factory in question is of no strategic importance. The factory is not even part of Diehl's defense branches. It belongs to the automotive branch that produces things for car manufacturers. * Politico is owned by Axel Springer, who also owns BILD.
> Police and insurance investigators said it was a technical defect that caused the fire Police and insurance assumed it to be a technical defect while saying sabotage could not be ruled out https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russian-saboteurs-behind-arson-attackat-german-factory-c13b4ece In the case of Diehl, electronic-communications intercepts that provided evidence of Russiaās involvement werenāt admissible in German courts, preventing authorities from clearly attributing the attack and pursuing criminal charges, two German officials said. > The Diehl factory in question is of no strategic importance. The factory is not even part of Diehl's defense branches. It belongs to the automotive branch that produces things for car manufacturers. It's state sponsored terrorism. The saboteur arrested in Czechia targeted busses
>while saying sabotage could not be ruled out If you ask them if they can rule out sabotage, then probably they will say no unless they exactly know the cause and what led to it. I would not even rule out sabotage, but I also don't trust any Axel Springer owned media to report the truth. >two German officials said. Who are they? Who did speak to them?
This economist article gives the context i think you're asking for. Looks at the pattern in totality, alongside the range of cases that have seen states make arrests accusing suspects of arson on behalf of a foreign state actor - or Wagner, in the UK case. On this case specifically, Politico isn't the only one to be reporting accusations of sabotage. WSJ and the telegraph, two papers with different owners, are also carrying this line. Yes, it's right to take a sources motives and underlying political stance into account, but in this instance you'd be mistaken in thinking this is a view taken blonly to satisfy a particular media mogul. https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/05/12/russia-is-ramping-up-sabotage-across-europe
Please invoke Article 5 already. We're already at war, it's just one sided for now
And do it quickly. When "the orange one" is sworn in, article 5 becomes invalid.
> When "the orange one" is sworn in Not "when", "if". We gotta go vote. I'm a lifelong Republican, but I'm voting for Joe. Trump cannot be allowed to win.
I am not American, but I am so depressed about how someone like Trump was able of reaching power like he did
The whole world is convinced America is going to become a Theocratic Russian and Chinese allied dictatorship that might last couple decades with the probability of Trump winning goes higher. New SCOTUS ruling essentially makes Trump a god emperor and Project 2025 is a promise of American downfall. UK seems to be preparing a NATO-like organisation that will replace US centric NATO. Ukraine and Taiwan is considering giving up and Georgia seems to have given all hope up. On the other side China is preparing to replace US as the global super power, BRICS is preparing to replace USD while Russia and Iran are keen on completely banishing all American influence all around the world. I donāt know for sure if Trump is going to win but the whole world is convinced that there will be an Russian, Iranian and Chinese puppet American dictatorship for god knows how long. As we saw with Jan 6 Trump simply does not want to leave the office ever and with the new SCOTUS ruling he will be allowed not to.
Would be great if politicians and overall politics would just stfu and help. It's annoying that project 2025 is/might be coming (idk I live in Europe) and they focus on that rather than halting talks about it and helping the 2 year war.
>German police said the investigation was still ongoing and that, "At this stage, a technical defect is assumed to be the cause of the fire." >Thomas Hƶr, CEO of Diehl Metal Applications, told Berlin broadcaster RBB last week that a fire insurance company had come to the same conclusion. >German tabloid Bild last week reported that a foreign intelligence service had informed the German secret services about concrete indications of Russia being involved in the outbreak of the factory fire. I can absolutely believe Russia did this, but this is very far from any prove that's what happened. Nobody in any official capacity has claimed this was sabotage or even intentional and the only source is some Bild (trash newspaper) article
Seems a bit sus. The police and the fire insurance company came to the conclusion it was a defect. Some kind of secret service of another country told the German secret service that Russia recruited random criminals off telegram to set fire to the factory? The evidence is not admissable in German courts, and the source is anonymous? Surely, you have to realize how dumb this sounds. Like a random criminal off telegram managed to fool the fire insurance company and the police? And they somehow know of this criminal ans can't do anything to him?
Lol I am as anti Putin as it gets in Germany. But Diehl and the police says it was a electrical defect. Only ask says otherwise. I am sure Russia does a lot of shit in Germany but this seems to be something else.
Nah that doesn't get any upvotes
Probably true
I thought this was debunked by now (article is from June 24th)
Luckily itās almost summer. Then we can welcome our upper-middle class Russian friends back at the French and Italian Rivieras for a well-deserved holiday after quite a stressful year.
This is directly from the article: "German police said the investigation was still ongoing and that, "At this stage, a technical defect is assumed to be the cause of the fire." Thomas Hƶr, CEO of Diehl Metal Applications, told Berlin broadcaster RBB last week that a fire insurance company had come to the same conclusion. But according to the WSJ, experienced professionals were behind the fire." Police and CEO of the company say it is caused by a defect. But WSJ knows better?
Fuck you Russia!
Why is Russia trying so hard to start WW3?
There is no proof for that. Not only had that factory nothing to do with arms production, Police as well as insurance investigators have come to the same conclusion, that it was a technical defect. I can't stand Russia, but we must not get hysterical
Yeah, it feels like someone really wants to pull the entire Europe into war with russia.
And what are our politicians gonna do about it? Probably nothing.
Basically terrorism, and they insight racial divisions in the middle of it.
Meanwhile, the Russia-backed far-right political parties surge in the pollsā¦
Is western intelligence completely fucking asleep or what?
Well th big question is what is Germany going to do about it? The sad truth is that Germany is currently powerless against Russia thanks to decades worth of underinvestment in our army and the ridiculous Policy position that we should not have strategic nuclear missiles.
> the ridiculous Policy position that we should not have strategic nuclear missiles. It was the price "they" demanded for Germany regaining full sovereignity and its ticket into NATO.
There's only rumours so far, so nothing yet.
As a person who loathes propaganda from any side I am still trying to the report that claims Russia put the factory on fire. Meanwhile the subtitle of the article is... "German police believe a technical defect caused the blaze, but security officials have blamed Russia."
In Finland Russian agents have been trying to get into water and electricity distribution facilities, most likely to sabotage them. Russia apparently is already waging war against NATO countries. Not sure why governments aren't calling them out. Perhaps lack or proof or stuff is happening, but not in public light.
Isnāt this an article 5 thingie?
Guess burning the Kremlin is fair game then.
This isnāt a declaration of war. Itās just a declaration of a special military operation, hence it does not trigger article 5. Checkmate!
Do mean a Terrorist Attack, or can white people not do terrorism?
I'd bet the whole EU will now respond with a powerful and resolute nothing at all.
ruzzia knows only destruction and hate.
We should really start sabotaging and in general be more active in this conflict. We should have Putin killed by drone or something. They canāt keep getting away with this.
Is this not an act of war?
So, just terrorism then.
Explain to me, slowly please, how this is not an attack on NATO soil, that should invoke a response?
Russia is actually annoying
Looks like Europe is at war. War without declaration. You better arm yourselves. WE are really on World war 3.
holy shit if this is true
Itās a terrorist country that has to be dismantled.