Its unforgiveable to shun your own child/ relative in my eyes. All that pain, abandoment, trauma you cause that poor person.I dont know how people can be so cruel & think its love. Damage is done. Its gonna go belly up if those 9 fat fairies at Warwick do this.
The relationship will always be hindered by a lack of trust….who wants to be emotionally vulnerable with a parent/family member that dropped you like a sack of potatoes for not believing as them??! Strong chance they will drop you again because ::insert whatever made up reason:: …I’m good
Yes! The damage is done and can’t be undone. I’ve been preparing for potential changes to shunning policy and even if there is a change there is I don’t want a relationship with my parents. The fact that they could do it in the first place tells me everything I need to know about them as people.
I would forgive them only if they were able to admit that it was wrong, and i would ask them why it was wrong and if they would shun me again if the GB did a 180
Yea i know, i've moved on and they're not relevant at all in my life anymore. Just saying it would happen on my terms IF they admit that they made a mistake. Otherwise i would never accept them back.
Never say never. Watchtower is a corporation and their#1 priority is membership and growth and money.
So it's very possible they could end shunning. They're bleeding badly and they need to focus on the best business model.
Being disfellowshipped for 25+ years. Seeing how they treat people and how they are in public. I can spot one a mile away. I hope to God I didn’t act like that. But no I can’t just forget how they treated me. They are not happy people. My family all have some kind of depression. No thanks.
I feel completely all the problems you described. I don't see myself in any normal relationship with my family.
They always preach that jws don't need to cry for their children or parents, they will found spiritually parents and children in the borg. Ironically I found my "spiritual" mother outside this cult. She is my daughter's nanny and she treats me better als any other jw. I don't need them in my life, I feel complete
There is no way on earth anyone could have convinced me to shun my child. When I was a member I already decided I was going to be destroyed in Armageddon because I would definitely give them a blood transfusion if they needed it. I decided I would rather be destroyed than damage my children in any way. That’s not how my dad feels about me. He shunned me faster than you can snap your fingers.
I feel similarly. It felt like my dad went out of his way to shun me. I had only stopped ministry. I told him I was still attending meetings, praying and reading the Bible daily. He told me I was no longer a member of his family. There was no attempt at reconciliation or any compassion at all.
I had been telling him for years that I had doubts. He always dismissed me and told me to rely upon Jehooba. He never wanted to help. Yet he was quite happy to stand on the stage at the convention and act like he was the apostle Paul. He is just a fake.
Sounds familiar to my experience. My dad was too occupied with recruiting to care that I was breaking down and dying before him. New people more important than loved ones.
Mine have reached out today and asked me to call because my “father” is on his deathbed.
Zero fucks given by me. They lost the right to call themselves my family 20 years ago. Even if he wanted to apologise (and that won’t be it) I still wouldn’t care.
It’s not my place to judge what others do in similar circumstances, but I’m headed off on a 3 week overseas work trip tomorrow and I’m not going to delay it or interrupt it to accommodate him.
Yep......it may seem harsh to others, but this game of emotional brinkmanship is NOT one you can ever afford to let your JW family WIN.
There's a tremendously important principle at stake here, and those who have "shunned" for many years at the behest of some cult's warped dictates do not deserve any kind of WARM, death-bed send-off as they prepare to meet their maker.
For those who believe in such things......
(And you'll hopefully forgive me because I DO..)
.....then every soul must eventually account to a higher court and have their uncharitable and fallacious actions and attitudes laid out before them for justification.
Doggedly fervent cult members need to be shown.....in no uncertain terms.....that this is precisely what they were. They need to be shown all of the utterly unnecessary, self-serving PAIN and HURT that their own actions have caused and wrought upon other people.
Their actions and choices need to have hurt somebody **very deeply indeed** for that "somebody" to show absolutely no desire or interest in visiting them on their "death-bed."
And they need to be SHOWN this.....in some genuinely "spiritual" and "truthful" environment where there no longer exists **any living trace** of the cultic collective they opted to identify with during their earthly existence.
All of the things that they used to surround themselves with for cultic affirmation...
Books, literature, bibles, kingdom halls, elders, governing bodies....and other fellow cult members.
All those fallacious life-props........all GONE.
Nothing now remaining but their own, solitudinal "spirit".....but now it's been totally isolated and it's being asked to justify itself before a REAL "spiritual" court.
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*"Why did you cause so much hurt and pain to those who were prepared to genuinely love you?"*
*"Why did you opt to identify with people who not only, didn't really love you, they also wanted you to annexe yourself from those precious few who DID really love you?"*
*"Why did you obey this cult's commands and directives?"*
*"When did your own true spirit become so lost.....become so blind......and become so easily led astray?"*
*"Did you become so afraid of death that you were even prepared to bargain away the very few, genuine and sincere relationships that your life afforded you?"*
*"Did you allow yourself to believe that you could somehow bargain, and negotiate with death or with god?"*
*"Is this what your cult taught you?"*
*"That your few, precious loved ones are disposable?"*
*"That heaven is so warped that it would actually smile upon you for causing these people so much pain?"*
*"That heaven would embrace you and reward you for judging and shunning the only people down on that earth who actually loved you and sought sincere relationship with you?"*
*"At what point did you decree yourself perfect and acceptable, but the ones you shunned not so?"*
*"Heaven didn't get that memo you see.....so you're going to have to explain that."*
*"I see...it was your CULT that made you adopt those attitudes and behaviours."*
*"Take a good look around you.....do you see ANY evidence of your earthly cult having presence in this most esteemed realm?"*
*"So how will you now make your decisions going forward?"*
*"You've left people behind on that earth who wouldn't even visit you on your death-bed."*
*"And we'd just like to clarify.....beyond any shadow of doubt, that insofar as love is concerned, this was very much because there was a YOU problem......so get rid of any notions you might still have, that this only occurred because there was a THEM problem....ok"*
*" You've really f\*cked up......I'm not gonna lie."*
*"There was genuine love aplenty, and ever-so-easily within your reach down on that earth....but you went looking for it in all the wrong places and amongst some of the most insincere and self-deluded people there are."*
*"Is it too late for contrition or remedy, you ask?"*
*"Well....left to you.....it would have been, and be in no doubt, you've left a lot of misery, pain and anxiety behind you. You took your cultic beliefs all the way to your death-bed and that's now become your legacy.*
*"Let's just say you're currently being not very fondly remembered by some of the people who really DID love you once upon a time."*
*"And yes, that might have been fine by you, should your cult have proven itself to be a truthful guide, but it wasn't was it?......So the bottom line here is that you've generated all of that misery and hurt for nothing."*
*"Is your spirit now hurting?"*
*"Is it feeling pain?"*
*"Do you feel stupid?"*
*"It is?"*
*"GOOD.....that's good......there might be some hope for you after all."*
*"What nobody down on the earth could ever teach you, has had to be passed on to heaven to teach you, but......you know what they say......better late than never."*
*"Eventually, those loved ones you've really hurt will reach this domain, and then......and ONLY then....will you be allowed to try and undo some of that pain and hurt you've left them with."*
*"The good news is.....that those who really DID love you, will likely forgive you."*
*"They may need to die themselves first, and we'll happily facilitate a heavenly reunion, but you'll need to really try and get your sh\*t together before that happens."*
*"We all love a happy ending up here, but your spirit really needs some work and quite a bit of cultic decontamination."*
*"You really were a self-opinionated, narcissistic jerk in your human body, and that's just not how we roll up here"*
*"Aren't you glad your human death wasn't really the final "ending" you thought it would be?"*
*"Souls like yours wouldn't stand a chance if it was.... you see?"*
*"Playing your silly games, going around shunning people and thinking you're all something special, which you so obviously all aren't."*
*"You're all just silly little children as far as heaven's concerned."*
*"But rest assured....we'll straighten you out."*
*"You can count on THAT."*
My PIMI sister started shunning me 25 years ago and we haven’t really spoken since. Likewise, there will be no death bed reunion. After a couple of years I started actively reverse shunning her. You just don’t get to bully people with these childish, spiritual games.
I totally agree.
You don't........not without serious and very "real" consequences or human reactions.
And this was the point of my somewhat lengthy ramble above, really.
Real life is not a game, and ultimately, if you've been an emotionally manipulative person.....then one day.....all of your "bluffs" will be called and any misery you've caused or relationships you've destroyed will have to be accounted for.
By refusing the "death-bed" reunion, we are directing these people towards a much higher court, and we have every right to do this if that's what we believe in.
But even if we DON'T believe in this, we still have this right because there should be no reward or dispensation for those who've practised a life of "shunning" and those unloving chips must ultimately be allowed to land wherever they will.
I't not the shunning that needs to be abandoned.
It's every PIMI's lobotomised state of compliance with the wishes of utter strangers (the GB) which makes a thing like "shunning" even POSSIBLE !!
That's what needs to be abandoned.
But THAT....never really will be abandoned, will it?
Just because your lobotomised JW friends or family members may have been given a new set of dictates from their "overlords"......and just because this might "seem" to be some kind of progressive improvement.....this, in no way mitigates the captive, insincere mind-set typically encountered within the average JW "drone."
I'd pity ANY hardcore PIMI witness who was suddenly told that they now have to try and reach out to people they've been shunning for years.
Because, unless this is done from a newfound state of personal shame, contrition and sincere love for those they've been shunning.....it will be an utterly futile gesture based on an utterly futile directive.
Ex-JWs......especially those who've been shunned......are like "bloodhounds" when it comes to sniffing out bullsh\*t versus sincerity.
And if there's one thing your average, lobotomised, PIMI "drone" really struggles to embrace in their lives.....it's "sincerity."
"Mindless obedience" and "compliance"......well.....they've got this down pat.
But to REALLY embrace the antithesis of the shunning mind-set.....well that requires a deeply personal emotional shift.
And lobotomised drones don't DO....."deeply personal, emotional shifts."
They just don't.
They just do what they're told.
And they seldom realise that other, more "normal" people can spot them a mile away because of this.
Which is why I said I "pity" them.
The GB may give them new behavioural **directives**.....but what they'll never be able to furnish their drones with is personal "sincerity."
And.....without any sincerity on the table, any person whose been shunned will be quite within their rights to tell these people to go kick rocks.....should they ever try and reach out to them.
This is exactly how I feel. It'll cause more harm than good because they would still be brainwashed which is the core of the problem. I would only reconnect with pimis if they wake up and realize it was a cult. That's the core of the problem.
It’s me that you’re talking about and I drank the Koolaid. You see I really don’t even exsist anymore and I believe that I’m a ghost now and it’s a pain so excruciating that you welcome death to avoid the major damage that has been caused. I think I died on. May 22nd. I don’t remember anything when I blacked behind the wheel and somehow parked my car. Nobody could figure out what happened to me. I feel like nobody can see me and nobody loves me except my boyfriend who’s been missing for a month. I’m not afraid anymore I just don’t feel normal. I belong to two cults as a child and it’s still reminds me of when I was abandoned for the second time first by mom at age.10 then again at age 14. I just want to go to heaven now but i am trapped in pergatory . Tech Nine days I’m dysfunctional. I am. I want out of this cruel world. My life was stolen from me
“The fact that you allow 9 strangers to dictate whether or not you can say ‘Hi’ to me shows me who you are. When you are ready to have a true relationship with me, without those 9 strangers dictating the terms, then you can reach out to me.”
From the experiences that have been posted. It doesn't sound like it's always a winner. It's heartless and disgusting.
Every year that goes by I get more pissed being treated this way. It would be hard to swallow those feelings.
Yes, unforgivable. I’ve been shunned for over 25 years. There’s no way that can be overturned either a simple, sorry, the rules have changed. What if they changed them back after 5 years? No thanks. If you shun in the first place, you are a stinking human being .
I have packed all the relationships I used to have in vacuum sealed bags in my mind. I don't resent the people I love anymore, I forgive them the moment they leave the witnesses. I forgive them the moment they realize they're wrong, just like I used to be wrong.
But that is not the extent of what you lose in these people. These people continued to grow without you, and you continued to grow without them. You are different, they are different. Even if you saw them again, you would not be reconnecting with the same person you once knew, nor would they be connecting again with the "you" they lost. That is what the Borg takes from us, the relationship that warped over time.
You can never go home again.
They may attempt to “refine” the DF arrangement ONLY because their pathetic attempt at mass reinstatements didn’t yield the results that they hoped for. It still hasn’t put more butts in seats like they wanted. I know literal full blown apostates who’ve recently been reinstated because of how relaxed they’ve made that process now. They came back to be able to speak to family but they don’t attend in person or go out in service.
I imagine it would go down like the beard thing. So many peers of mine who were ran out the org for chin hair back in the 90s and 2000s didn’t run back once they heard about the that change. The damage was done. They had tasted freedom. They had seen the supercilious nature of the Borg. Same will happen if they got rid of shunning.
Like, The issue is not even the shunning, its the hoops you must go through to even get reinstated these days. Where does the bible says that I have to attend meetings for a YEAR just to put in the letter to ASK to come back? Its literally the most made up system ever
No request letter required. No more “let us observe your meeting attendance for 6 months and reconvene.” And to my knowledge, no more disfellowshipping of minors. They just ask “are you currently engaged in wrongdoing?” And do you wanna be reinstated? And that’s that.
What makes me sad is Pimos staying in the cult for friends and family members that they are afraid to lose because those friends and family that would shun if they left. So in a way, the borg still has a mental and emotional hold on pimos. When I left I knew there would be "casualties " and made peace with the fact that while my love was unconditional for my family and friends; it was not the same for them towards me because of the toxic brainwashing of the cult.
There is no teaching,rule,change,refinement,"new lite",adjustment no matter how big or small would ever get me to return or bring back into my life all those who so quickly and wholey forgot I existed all those years ago when I left. None have EVER reached out to me after I faded and it's been over 5 years now.
Part of it I blame the cult and part I blame on the weak character of family members and "friends". As a mother myself I just do not understand how my own mother could shun her child.
> So in a way, the borg still has a mental and emotional hold on pimos
You're absolutely right. When you think about it, the acronym PIMO is an oxymoron. They still are not MO - Mentally Out, are they? Someone else, the GB, is still controlling their mental actions.
That should be expected. You can’t just treat people in such a despicable way and expect for things to go back to normal in a flash. I t will take a lot of work to weed out these lingering cult
issues. Time will tell.
Although I don't blame my family for being brainwashed I wouldn't feel the need to reconnect just because of a policy change. There's a change of heart that'd have to happen, not just JW policy.
It absolutely amazes me that they thought that df'd ones would just welcome the approach, lap it up, and be grateful! I'm sure some have but many have learned to stand on their own two feet and don't need the bullshit anymore.
Some of the stories I've read here, on Quora, and in the FB support group I'm a member of, have told of surprised and/or shocked reactions from JWs when the df'd & da'd have let go with mouthfuls of vitriole about the shabby, inhuman treatment they've had to tolerate.
JWs who have used this "New Shite" deserve the pushback and anger they've faced... but cannot comprehend the emotion and have no concept of what social isolation feels like and what they have physically & mentally perpetrated on others!
**FUCK 'EM ALL‼️**
https://preview.redd.it/o4203wsuk49d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26e37b1f6230c742e91ab6578e1fb91bc34fb7aa
My son just told them that he had moved on. Imagine having to fight your way out of this life-numbing-indoctrination for 5, 6, 10, 20years realizing that it was all bs and then going back to that vomit, as they would say.
Even though my sister has forgiven me, we find it hard to connect. Our relationship isn't the same many years have gone by and we've drifted apart. Could also be that we don't care to develop a stronger bond at this point. We're still family though. I guess that's good enough.
I agree with other posters: if the family actually admits they were wrong and why, and humbly asks for forgiveness, it can begin to rebuild.
The thing about this that pisses me off so bad is that in one 10 minute talk, everyone’s hive mind is changed. Was it ever truly a BELIEF that a person held to be true, if it can so easily be changed? Nope. No one believes in this bullshit. No one. It isn’t right, it’s against humanity.
I've been disfellowshipped. I can say from experience that the shunning is extremely painful. To know that your family doesn't want to answer the phone when you call, they don't care enough to know that you are safe, and once you are back you don't fully feel healed. If you are trying to get back, you also limit association with people in the world, so you are really alone. I feel like in that time, I lost the trust I had for my family that they had my back.
For those that follow the practice, they feel like they are doing the right thing and that also hurts because the pain they cause to the DF'd one doesn't matter as much as following the rules. They don't know the reason you were DF'd most of the time, but even if they do, there is always a feeling of shame when talking with them. They also make up stories about you in their mind to justify their rejection of you.
I could never do that to my child. I can't imagine a loving God would expect that from us.
I’m glad that my mom was able to forgive me when I left the cult after she did. I didn’t full on ignore-her-in-the-street shun, but we didn’t really talk for a couple of years. And I’ve had friends escape the cult after me, and when that person reaches out to you to say, “I’m done with the JWs”, any anger towards them totally melts away.
I remember what I was like to be in. I remember how torn and sickened I was over this policy, but how scared I was of “disappointing God” and “making him sad”. Worried that if I talked to a former member, I would lose out on the paradise, and then the people that loved me would have to live forever without me. Yet on the other hand, I thought I was going to have to live forever without some of my most dear relationships (because they had left the cult). It’s ultimately one of the things that drove me out of the cult: the idea of living forever without those people started to sound more like hell than paradise.
I have compassion for those who are in and are trying to do what they believe is right. I can’t imagine not welcoming someone back in my life with open arms if they left. That’s just my experience, not meant to diminish some of the more extreme situations that other people have dealt with.
ETA: I’m realizing I kinda misread your question. Yeah, if the person was still a JW but they had relaxed the sunning policy, I’m not sure how I’d feel or how I’d react if people reached out to me. That one would be a lot more difficult to overlook. Just for my mental health, I don’t think I’d want that person back in my life if they were still an active JW.
If I had parents that shunned me for years;
The only way I will forgive you is if you leave the Watchtower.
Because you are in a cult that worships a demon that murders 70,000 of his own followers because a King took a censusl
If you continue to stay in the Watchtower that means you are evil, and I don'\[ want anything to do with people that are evil, family or not. .
As someone who was shunned by a family member for almost a decade, the damage has been done and I will never be able to trust that they won't do it again, when it was so easy for them to do it the first time - and they didn't even have to by their religion's rules. I think that even if they did away with shunning, the damage is going to last decades, until every person that shunned or was shunned is long gone. They spend so much time telling people to forgive those who have wronged them, they don't even know how to make amends with someone they have wronged. It's like it's expected that you will just forgive and forget with no effort made on the the offender's part to rebuild the relationship.
having been shunned for 40 years by my brothers, who are currently not fully shunning me now because i'm less disposable when they want my efforts in caregiving for parents...i decided to help based on my own feelings and morals. it's one of my personal standards not to ever let my own morality be dictated by others. no more cults for me!
one (super pimi elder) brother has gone back to soft shunning now, because i told him his witnessing at me was unwelcome. when mom dies we'll go back to hard shunning. one i think would not shun me at all if not for his crazy pimi wife, but he loves her and as it is he keeps contact very limited. one i'm sure will probably go back to shunning unless, you know, he wants something. because that's how he is.
the general, unspoken undercurrent is that i should be grateful to them for speaking to me at all. mom wants to act like we're besties. after soft-shunning me all those years, including many years where she and dad would NOT say they "loved me."
i have tried really hard to look at it like, as screwed up as their beliefs are, they are, indeed, doing what they feel is right. i try to be understanding. but the whole undertow, like i am tainted, dangerous, "unclean" (and my mom actually used that word). and then she doesn't understand why i'm not planning vacations with her and crap.
it's just fucked up. i'm talking to a therapist. LOL
When the ppl who are the staple of your first sense of self, trust, and relationships betrays you the way many parents have in the disfellowshipping process, there is no redemption. I’m sure there are many who will welcome the contact warmly. But my guard would ALWAYS be up around my family who are pimi. Always waiting for some lame excuse to drop me and my family for something they find more interesting. I mean, shit, they did it even while I was IN, like full PIMI in. I got layers of “fuck off” under my distrust for the ppl I left behind.
TLDR same, OP. Same
I would have never forgiven them, period. And once they shunned me, once they chose to turn their backs on me in favour of a fairy tale, I would have never spoken to them again, for any reason, not even if they woke up and left.
I was abandoned at the age of 3 by my birth father, which left its own scars as you can imagine. This is a line you don't cross with me. There is no coming back from it.
Fortunately, while my parents (step dad IS dad to me) are still trapped in this cult, losing me forever, and knowing they would if they shunned me, was not something they were willing to put to the test.
Yes. One of my older brothers has shunned me for the last 20 years. He’s shunned me half my entire life. I will never forgive him or my sister in law for how they’ve treated me, it’s evil and inhumane
I'm 42 years old now. The relationship with my mother was gone by the time I was 14. Nothing they could do or say could repair the damage or change that shes a 'card carrying' cult member.
I've made peace with that and have carried on with life.
I can. I don't think I would ever be super close to them, but I shunned family members for over 20 years before I woke up so I can't judge. I would take it as an opportunity to maybe drop hints about how it's a cult.
But, I realize my experience is probably very different from others.
Btw: my family 100% shun me currently.
I never had friends.
My mother didnt want me to have friends because she was worried that I would tell about the child abuse in the home.
If anyone was nice to me she argued with them. If anyone encouraged me or rold me i did a good job with a comment or a part I would be beaten when I got home and demanded to tell the details of the conversation and told not ro believe everything people told me so as not to get a 'big head' to destroy any form of self esteem.
Being df'd was never a punishment because what would I miss out on.. COMMENTING? Not friends because I wasnt allowed any, not family because both sides were nonJW and I was ostracized from them as well.. no one knows who I am ( my family is HUGE.. its so sad that I could be walking pass cousins and wouldn't even know it)
So much damage done, this policy is evil.
I love my kids with all my heart, but my spouse did so much damage… I have to constantly stop my blood from boiling over what she did. Announcing all over the city that I had gone apostate before I had even left. She ruined my relationship with my children.
I can’t imagine this happening, but with my kids my love is unconditional.
If I was being shunned by JW family and the GB abandons the practice, for me to reconnect with my JW family they would have to...
* Apologize for past shunning, admitting that they were wrong for engaging in it.
* Swear that they would never return to shunning me if the organization changes back to requiring shunning.
If they can't do this, then I'm not interested in reconnecting with them, because it would clearly mean that they're not truly repentant for their past actions; and that they love Watchtower organization and its Governing Body more than me, their own flesh and blood. What kind of person puts loyalty to an organization above love for their own family to the extent of inflicting pain on their relatives in obedience to the organization?
I grew up in the JW cult and a cult of one, my father. He had a meeting to tell my siblings I was bad association after I revealed that he was not superman (narc). They soft shunned me decades before I left, but we never had a real family anyway as it revolved around dear ole dad. The only sibling that isn't in the cult is in a cult of one with their spouse. I have not had time with them in person for 30 years without said spouse calling to interrupt, or causing them to arrive 2 to 3 hours late due to something like light rain, many times they call my sibling to come to help with the family business and cut the visit short. The narc spouse cut off my siblings friends, then put them back on Facebook (took over their account) to get some needed friends, as if it was their fault. 🤦🏻♀️
JW is a narcissistic cult, grows and attracts them, and ruins all family life. My husband doesn't have a much better story, but one of his siblings does have a normal relationship with us.
I escaped much of this repetition by marrying another scapegoat, and no one close to us approved of the union. My mother had no opinion, my father was silent when my hubby asked for my hand (old fashioned). Hubby has balls of steel to stand up to my jerk dad.
No, the GB changing doctrine would not change a damn thing for my family.
My few friends that would try to reconnect (I got sick and lost most of them, they weren't real friends. If it happens to you and you don't have cancer, you'll see.) would keep using passive language like "We are so fortunate that we don't have to worry about such and such problem in the organization",🤮 that I'd rather stick to my new fun friends that wouldn't look down on my holiday decorations, etc. Lesbians and ex-jw friends are so much better.
It wouldnt be enough to stop the pimis from shunning, generations and so much sunk cost would continue to move their conscience to distance themselves.
To have any ACTUAL change I think they would haveto say you must have relationships with friends and family that arnt in the truth or else get dfd, lol
You would need to use the threat of shunning to stop them from shunning
I think it sets you up as morally superior in your own mind to be above someone so much that you can’t even talk to them, you can’t risk lowing your kingly self so far as to cast a glance at the peasants.
Definitely some kind of power trip or feel batter about yourself
Those that judge others the hardest like that usually have something to hide themselves
I think some get a sense of ‘I did something great for Jehovah today’. when we were young my pimi sister would toss her head high in the air when she saw a DF in public and make a show of crossing the street. ( she was like 13) then she would tell everyone what she did like she was going to get a sticky star from the teacher.
Massively.
To think that people, especially family, could cut you off and treat you like you are dead, is horrible.
My mum said to me the other day, “I love you but I can’t associate with you because Jehovah comes first”. I told my mum friends on the school run and they were like “what? wtf 😳 that’s not normal. How can she love you but want nothing to do with you?”.
I don’t feel loved. I don’t feel accepted. Do I want to accept someone back fully who can make me feel that way? Should I?
What would we say to a person in a relationship with someone treating them like that? Leave right? And if they considered going back to them, we would remind them of what the person did and hopefully they’d stay far away.
So… why would we allow people who have treated us terribly and to be blunt, abused us, to waltz back in like they’ve done nothing wrong?
The damage has been done once shunning has happened.
I know from experience.
And I was never a bad person.
I just didn’t fit the Jehovah’s Witnesses book of expectations.
It is not up to me to fix the mistakes of the people who behaved a certain way.
They made the error, it’s on them to make amends.
If they don’t, they can go fuck themselves, as far as I’m concerned.
For sure.
No reason not to.
If someone is genuine, realises that they made a mistake and were wrong, and wants to make amends, that is progress and is a good thing, and the first step in making things better.
Nope.
And it couldn’t happen again.
I have moved on light years from those days and I am a happy, content, proud, atheist and apostate.
There’s no way that shunning could happen again because I don’t allow that behaviour anymore.
Anyone who does behave like that, is the same as someone who doesn’t exist to me.
They are completely irrelevant.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses already did the damage once, they don’t get to do it again to me.
Everyone that I know who was shunned is never the same. They always have a story of the experiences they had, like people not holding the door for them at meeting, crossing the street to avoid them, bringing back up their past once they're reinstated. They remember the small acts of kindness from a very small group that probably encouraged them. JWs find it easier to practice the more cruel aspects of their religion, and never seem to understand the compassion Jesus showed for sinners in the gospel accounts. The crazy thing is, most JWs have some type of immoral conduct that they hide, it makes them feel better to point at others who have been exposed.
It depends.
"I'm sorry. We were wrong to do it." I can work on repairing the relationship.
"Hey, we just received new light from the organization and we don't have to shun anymore. Isn't that great?" Nothing has changed. I still can't trust them.
I don't know if the JWs are to blame or just my messed up family. I recently (last year) ran into an elder while he was on break, and he even admitted (as an outsider) that he could see there was no love in my family's home
Shunned or not I have cut the toxicity from my life
Yeah it’s a lot of fake love used to boost their reputations in the congregation. There’s only a handful of people I would talk to if they reached out to me. The rest of them are DFd from my life.
Ultimately it's individual members choice to shun. The larger picture is that the organisation coerced them and that makes the organisation a cult, a high control group but individuals went along with it.
Here's the thing. The JW's aren't minimalizing if not eventually eliminating the shunning policy because they all of a sudden became merciful. They're only doing it because of pressure from the governments and other human rights activists because of the shunning policy. The only thing they're doing is changing the official stance, what's in print. We all know that there is a difference between what's in print and what is actually happening in the organization. I think there will be a tendency to for families to at least give more attention to their relatives who are disfellowshipped. But the elders are still going to find a way to convey to the rank and file that associating with people who are disfellowshipped is bad for their status in the congregation and possible privilege restrictions. They'll manage to get the job done like they used to if that's what they really want to do. The official stance will change, but I think it'll be business as usual behind the scenes.
Ahhh, thank you, I was scrolling down to see if someone got here before me. I’m 100% sure that my mother and old guard like her would still shun regardless of new light. Because she would believe it’s still the right thing to do and probably read between the lines that the GB only updated things to align with government policy, but the underlying message is the same as before
Based on I'm not df or Da but still shunned. I feel like if it's left up to the family members to decide they still will shun us since we are pomo “apostates”. They will still guilt family members into not talking to us since we will not return to the Borg. It would only work if they actually agree on not talking about the org or any religion for that matter but they are trained to only talk about it.
Otherwise, My mom would have her first grandson in her life but the org talked her into her youngest daughter an apostate for not agreeing to csa and SA. They actually told her “One shouldn't leave because of that. It's like they are turning away from Jehovah over something we have no control over”.
Side note: If you look up the legal definition of Christian and apostates the GB are the actual apostates 🤷♀️ but that's my opinion.
Yesterday my sister saw me at the post office. And just came up to me and started asking about my health. So weird. I just keep wondering what was her intention?
My mother and sister lost all of their friends instantly and went thru insane anxiety and depression. And so did I watching them. I eventually left. But I also recently got disfed. No way they wanna catchup or talk to old friends who just dropped them when they needed them the most. Nope. It’s all a big clown fest.
Its unforgiveable to shun your own child/ relative in my eyes. All that pain, abandoment, trauma you cause that poor person.I dont know how people can be so cruel & think its love. Damage is done. Its gonna go belly up if those 9 fat fairies at Warwick do this.
The relationship will always be hindered by a lack of trust….who wants to be emotionally vulnerable with a parent/family member that dropped you like a sack of potatoes for not believing as them??! Strong chance they will drop you again because ::insert whatever made up reason:: …I’m good
Yes! The damage is done and can’t be undone. I’ve been preparing for potential changes to shunning policy and even if there is a change there is I don’t want a relationship with my parents. The fact that they could do it in the first place tells me everything I need to know about them as people.
I would forgive them only if they were able to admit that it was wrong, and i would ask them why it was wrong and if they would shun me again if the GB did a 180
Especially the last part seems important to me
It will never happen 😞
Yea i know, i've moved on and they're not relevant at all in my life anymore. Just saying it would happen on my terms IF they admit that they made a mistake. Otherwise i would never accept them back.
Never say never. Watchtower is a corporation and their#1 priority is membership and growth and money. So it's very possible they could end shunning. They're bleeding badly and they need to focus on the best business model.
I agree
The gb does not apologize so I don’t think we could expect our family to apologize.
Being disfellowshipped for 25+ years. Seeing how they treat people and how they are in public. I can spot one a mile away. I hope to God I didn’t act like that. But no I can’t just forget how they treated me. They are not happy people. My family all have some kind of depression. No thanks.
I feel completely all the problems you described. I don't see myself in any normal relationship with my family. They always preach that jws don't need to cry for their children or parents, they will found spiritually parents and children in the borg. Ironically I found my "spiritual" mother outside this cult. She is my daughter's nanny and she treats me better als any other jw. I don't need them in my life, I feel complete
There is no way on earth anyone could have convinced me to shun my child. When I was a member I already decided I was going to be destroyed in Armageddon because I would definitely give them a blood transfusion if they needed it. I decided I would rather be destroyed than damage my children in any way. That’s not how my dad feels about me. He shunned me faster than you can snap your fingers.
I feel similarly. It felt like my dad went out of his way to shun me. I had only stopped ministry. I told him I was still attending meetings, praying and reading the Bible daily. He told me I was no longer a member of his family. There was no attempt at reconciliation or any compassion at all. I had been telling him for years that I had doubts. He always dismissed me and told me to rely upon Jehooba. He never wanted to help. Yet he was quite happy to stand on the stage at the convention and act like he was the apostle Paul. He is just a fake.
Sounds familiar to my experience. My dad was too occupied with recruiting to care that I was breaking down and dying before him. New people more important than loved ones.
That’s awful. I’m sorry. 😔
I agree we th you 100%. I would take a bullet to my brain to protect my only child my daughter.
Mine have reached out today and asked me to call because my “father” is on his deathbed. Zero fucks given by me. They lost the right to call themselves my family 20 years ago. Even if he wanted to apologise (and that won’t be it) I still wouldn’t care. It’s not my place to judge what others do in similar circumstances, but I’m headed off on a 3 week overseas work trip tomorrow and I’m not going to delay it or interrupt it to accommodate him.
I agree with you entirely. You don’t get the last word when you could have had many words in the last 20 years. Sorry it had to come to this.
Yep......it may seem harsh to others, but this game of emotional brinkmanship is NOT one you can ever afford to let your JW family WIN. There's a tremendously important principle at stake here, and those who have "shunned" for many years at the behest of some cult's warped dictates do not deserve any kind of WARM, death-bed send-off as they prepare to meet their maker. For those who believe in such things...... (And you'll hopefully forgive me because I DO..) .....then every soul must eventually account to a higher court and have their uncharitable and fallacious actions and attitudes laid out before them for justification. Doggedly fervent cult members need to be shown.....in no uncertain terms.....that this is precisely what they were. They need to be shown all of the utterly unnecessary, self-serving PAIN and HURT that their own actions have caused and wrought upon other people. Their actions and choices need to have hurt somebody **very deeply indeed** for that "somebody" to show absolutely no desire or interest in visiting them on their "death-bed." And they need to be SHOWN this.....in some genuinely "spiritual" and "truthful" environment where there no longer exists **any living trace** of the cultic collective they opted to identify with during their earthly existence. All of the things that they used to surround themselves with for cultic affirmation... Books, literature, bibles, kingdom halls, elders, governing bodies....and other fellow cult members. All those fallacious life-props........all GONE. Nothing now remaining but their own, solitudinal "spirit".....but now it's been totally isolated and it's being asked to justify itself before a REAL "spiritual" court. \---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  *"Why did you cause so much hurt and pain to those who were prepared to genuinely love you?"* *"Why did you opt to identify with people who not only, didn't really love you, they also wanted you to annexe yourself from those precious few who DID really love you?"* *"Why did you obey this cult's commands and directives?"* *"When did your own true spirit become so lost.....become so blind......and become so easily led astray?"* *"Did you become so afraid of death that you were even prepared to bargain away the very few, genuine and sincere relationships that your life afforded you?"* *"Did you allow yourself to believe that you could somehow bargain, and negotiate with death or with god?"* *"Is this what your cult taught you?"* *"That your few, precious loved ones are disposable?"* *"That heaven is so warped that it would actually smile upon you for causing these people so much pain?"* *"That heaven would embrace you and reward you for judging and shunning the only people down on that earth who actually loved you and sought sincere relationship with you?"* *"At what point did you decree yourself perfect and acceptable, but the ones you shunned not so?"* *"Heaven didn't get that memo you see.....so you're going to have to explain that."* *"I see...it was your CULT that made you adopt those attitudes and behaviours."* *"Take a good look around you.....do you see ANY evidence of your earthly cult having presence in this most esteemed realm?"* *"So how will you now make your decisions going forward?"* *"You've left people behind on that earth who wouldn't even visit you on your death-bed."* *"And we'd just like to clarify.....beyond any shadow of doubt, that insofar as love is concerned, this was very much because there was a YOU problem......so get rid of any notions you might still have, that this only occurred because there was a THEM problem....ok"* *" You've really f\*cked up......I'm not gonna lie."* *"There was genuine love aplenty, and ever-so-easily within your reach down on that earth....but you went looking for it in all the wrong places and amongst some of the most insincere and self-deluded people there are."* *"Is it too late for contrition or remedy, you ask?"* *"Well....left to you.....it would have been, and be in no doubt, you've left a lot of misery, pain and anxiety behind you. You took your cultic beliefs all the way to your death-bed and that's now become your legacy.* *"Let's just say you're currently being not very fondly remembered by some of the people who really DID love you once upon a time."* *"And yes, that might have been fine by you, should your cult have proven itself to be a truthful guide, but it wasn't was it?......So the bottom line here is that you've generated all of that misery and hurt for nothing."* *"Is your spirit now hurting?"* *"Is it feeling pain?"* *"Do you feel stupid?"* *"It is?"* *"GOOD.....that's good......there might be some hope for you after all."* *"What nobody down on the earth could ever teach you, has had to be passed on to heaven to teach you, but......you know what they say......better late than never."* *"Eventually, those loved ones you've really hurt will reach this domain, and then......and ONLY then....will you be allowed to try and undo some of that pain and hurt you've left them with."* *"The good news is.....that those who really DID love you, will likely forgive you."* *"They may need to die themselves first, and we'll happily facilitate a heavenly reunion, but you'll need to really try and get your sh\*t together before that happens."* *"We all love a happy ending up here, but your spirit really needs some work and quite a bit of cultic decontamination."* *"You really were a self-opinionated, narcissistic jerk in your human body, and that's just not how we roll up here"* *"Aren't you glad your human death wasn't really the final "ending" you thought it would be?"* *"Souls like yours wouldn't stand a chance if it was.... you see?"* *"Playing your silly games, going around shunning people and thinking you're all something special, which you so obviously all aren't."* *"You're all just silly little children as far as heaven's concerned."* *"But rest assured....we'll straighten you out."* *"You can count on THAT."*
My PIMI sister started shunning me 25 years ago and we haven’t really spoken since. Likewise, there will be no death bed reunion. After a couple of years I started actively reverse shunning her. You just don’t get to bully people with these childish, spiritual games.
I totally agree. You don't........not without serious and very "real" consequences or human reactions. And this was the point of my somewhat lengthy ramble above, really. Real life is not a game, and ultimately, if you've been an emotionally manipulative person.....then one day.....all of your "bluffs" will be called and any misery you've caused or relationships you've destroyed will have to be accounted for. By refusing the "death-bed" reunion, we are directing these people towards a much higher court, and we have every right to do this if that's what we believe in. But even if we DON'T believe in this, we still have this right because there should be no reward or dispensation for those who've practised a life of "shunning" and those unloving chips must ultimately be allowed to land wherever they will.
Yes, I totally agree. You don’t get to alleviate your guilt in 5 minutes after torturing somebody for 25 years.
That was awesome.
That's how I felt when my dad passed.
I't not the shunning that needs to be abandoned. It's every PIMI's lobotomised state of compliance with the wishes of utter strangers (the GB) which makes a thing like "shunning" even POSSIBLE !! That's what needs to be abandoned. But THAT....never really will be abandoned, will it? Just because your lobotomised JW friends or family members may have been given a new set of dictates from their "overlords"......and just because this might "seem" to be some kind of progressive improvement.....this, in no way mitigates the captive, insincere mind-set typically encountered within the average JW "drone." I'd pity ANY hardcore PIMI witness who was suddenly told that they now have to try and reach out to people they've been shunning for years. Because, unless this is done from a newfound state of personal shame, contrition and sincere love for those they've been shunning.....it will be an utterly futile gesture based on an utterly futile directive. Ex-JWs......especially those who've been shunned......are like "bloodhounds" when it comes to sniffing out bullsh\*t versus sincerity. And if there's one thing your average, lobotomised, PIMI "drone" really struggles to embrace in their lives.....it's "sincerity." "Mindless obedience" and "compliance"......well.....they've got this down pat. But to REALLY embrace the antithesis of the shunning mind-set.....well that requires a deeply personal emotional shift. And lobotomised drones don't DO....."deeply personal, emotional shifts." They just don't. They just do what they're told. And they seldom realise that other, more "normal" people can spot them a mile away because of this. Which is why I said I "pity" them. The GB may give them new behavioural **directives**.....but what they'll never be able to furnish their drones with is personal "sincerity." And.....without any sincerity on the table, any person whose been shunned will be quite within their rights to tell these people to go kick rocks.....should they ever try and reach out to them.
I applaud you!!! Absolute spot on!!
This is exactly how I feel. It'll cause more harm than good because they would still be brainwashed which is the core of the problem. I would only reconnect with pimis if they wake up and realize it was a cult. That's the core of the problem.
Beautifully said
It’s me that you’re talking about and I drank the Koolaid. You see I really don’t even exsist anymore and I believe that I’m a ghost now and it’s a pain so excruciating that you welcome death to avoid the major damage that has been caused. I think I died on. May 22nd. I don’t remember anything when I blacked behind the wheel and somehow parked my car. Nobody could figure out what happened to me. I feel like nobody can see me and nobody loves me except my boyfriend who’s been missing for a month. I’m not afraid anymore I just don’t feel normal. I belong to two cults as a child and it’s still reminds me of when I was abandoned for the second time first by mom at age.10 then again at age 14. I just want to go to heaven now but i am trapped in pergatory . Tech Nine days I’m dysfunctional. I am. I want out of this cruel world. My life was stolen from me
“The fact that you allow 9 strangers to dictate whether or not you can say ‘Hi’ to me shows me who you are. When you are ready to have a true relationship with me, without those 9 strangers dictating the terms, then you can reach out to me.”
From the experiences that have been posted. It doesn't sound like it's always a winner. It's heartless and disgusting. Every year that goes by I get more pissed being treated this way. It would be hard to swallow those feelings.
Yes, unforgivable. I’ve been shunned for over 25 years. There’s no way that can be overturned either a simple, sorry, the rules have changed. What if they changed them back after 5 years? No thanks. If you shun in the first place, you are a stinking human being .
I have packed all the relationships I used to have in vacuum sealed bags in my mind. I don't resent the people I love anymore, I forgive them the moment they leave the witnesses. I forgive them the moment they realize they're wrong, just like I used to be wrong. But that is not the extent of what you lose in these people. These people continued to grow without you, and you continued to grow without them. You are different, they are different. Even if you saw them again, you would not be reconnecting with the same person you once knew, nor would they be connecting again with the "you" they lost. That is what the Borg takes from us, the relationship that warped over time. You can never go home again.
This is so true. I think about reconnecting and how the love between us has permanently changed. Very sad.
They may attempt to “refine” the DF arrangement ONLY because their pathetic attempt at mass reinstatements didn’t yield the results that they hoped for. It still hasn’t put more butts in seats like they wanted. I know literal full blown apostates who’ve recently been reinstated because of how relaxed they’ve made that process now. They came back to be able to speak to family but they don’t attend in person or go out in service. I imagine it would go down like the beard thing. So many peers of mine who were ran out the org for chin hair back in the 90s and 2000s didn’t run back once they heard about the that change. The damage was done. They had tasted freedom. They had seen the supercilious nature of the Borg. Same will happen if they got rid of shunning.
Like, The issue is not even the shunning, its the hoops you must go through to even get reinstated these days. Where does the bible says that I have to attend meetings for a YEAR just to put in the letter to ASK to come back? Its literally the most made up system ever
And to add insult to injury, overnight they’ve done away with that old system. All because numbers are low!
Wait, your kidding me? What is the new method to come back in now?
No request letter required. No more “let us observe your meeting attendance for 6 months and reconvene.” And to my knowledge, no more disfellowshipping of minors. They just ask “are you currently engaged in wrongdoing?” And do you wanna be reinstated? And that’s that.
You can come back after only 3 months now.
What makes me sad is Pimos staying in the cult for friends and family members that they are afraid to lose because those friends and family that would shun if they left. So in a way, the borg still has a mental and emotional hold on pimos. When I left I knew there would be "casualties " and made peace with the fact that while my love was unconditional for my family and friends; it was not the same for them towards me because of the toxic brainwashing of the cult. There is no teaching,rule,change,refinement,"new lite",adjustment no matter how big or small would ever get me to return or bring back into my life all those who so quickly and wholey forgot I existed all those years ago when I left. None have EVER reached out to me after I faded and it's been over 5 years now. Part of it I blame the cult and part I blame on the weak character of family members and "friends". As a mother myself I just do not understand how my own mother could shun her child.
> So in a way, the borg still has a mental and emotional hold on pimos You're absolutely right. When you think about it, the acronym PIMO is an oxymoron. They still are not MO - Mentally Out, are they? Someone else, the GB, is still controlling their mental actions.
They are no longer family!!!! Screw'em
That should be expected. You can’t just treat people in such a despicable way and expect for things to go back to normal in a flash. I t will take a lot of work to weed out these lingering cult issues. Time will tell.
Although I don't blame my family for being brainwashed I wouldn't feel the need to reconnect just because of a policy change. There's a change of heart that'd have to happen, not just JW policy.
And this, in my opinion, is the only answer
It absolutely amazes me that they thought that df'd ones would just welcome the approach, lap it up, and be grateful! I'm sure some have but many have learned to stand on their own two feet and don't need the bullshit anymore. Some of the stories I've read here, on Quora, and in the FB support group I'm a member of, have told of surprised and/or shocked reactions from JWs when the df'd & da'd have let go with mouthfuls of vitriole about the shabby, inhuman treatment they've had to tolerate. JWs who have used this "New Shite" deserve the pushback and anger they've faced... but cannot comprehend the emotion and have no concept of what social isolation feels like and what they have physically & mentally perpetrated on others! **FUCK 'EM ALL‼️** https://preview.redd.it/o4203wsuk49d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26e37b1f6230c742e91ab6578e1fb91bc34fb7aa
My son just told them that he had moved on. Imagine having to fight your way out of this life-numbing-indoctrination for 5, 6, 10, 20years realizing that it was all bs and then going back to that vomit, as they would say.
Even though my sister has forgiven me, we find it hard to connect. Our relationship isn't the same many years have gone by and we've drifted apart. Could also be that we don't care to develop a stronger bond at this point. We're still family though. I guess that's good enough.
I agree with other posters: if the family actually admits they were wrong and why, and humbly asks for forgiveness, it can begin to rebuild. The thing about this that pisses me off so bad is that in one 10 minute talk, everyone’s hive mind is changed. Was it ever truly a BELIEF that a person held to be true, if it can so easily be changed? Nope. No one believes in this bullshit. No one. It isn’t right, it’s against humanity.
I've been disfellowshipped. I can say from experience that the shunning is extremely painful. To know that your family doesn't want to answer the phone when you call, they don't care enough to know that you are safe, and once you are back you don't fully feel healed. If you are trying to get back, you also limit association with people in the world, so you are really alone. I feel like in that time, I lost the trust I had for my family that they had my back. For those that follow the practice, they feel like they are doing the right thing and that also hurts because the pain they cause to the DF'd one doesn't matter as much as following the rules. They don't know the reason you were DF'd most of the time, but even if they do, there is always a feeling of shame when talking with them. They also make up stories about you in their mind to justify their rejection of you. I could never do that to my child. I can't imagine a loving God would expect that from us.
“They make up stories about you in their mind” - that helps explain the crazy gossip/outright lies that goes around after exiting.
Yep, its already rooted deep down. So to change, it will be difficult some may never even consider doing it.
I’m glad that my mom was able to forgive me when I left the cult after she did. I didn’t full on ignore-her-in-the-street shun, but we didn’t really talk for a couple of years. And I’ve had friends escape the cult after me, and when that person reaches out to you to say, “I’m done with the JWs”, any anger towards them totally melts away. I remember what I was like to be in. I remember how torn and sickened I was over this policy, but how scared I was of “disappointing God” and “making him sad”. Worried that if I talked to a former member, I would lose out on the paradise, and then the people that loved me would have to live forever without me. Yet on the other hand, I thought I was going to have to live forever without some of my most dear relationships (because they had left the cult). It’s ultimately one of the things that drove me out of the cult: the idea of living forever without those people started to sound more like hell than paradise. I have compassion for those who are in and are trying to do what they believe is right. I can’t imagine not welcoming someone back in my life with open arms if they left. That’s just my experience, not meant to diminish some of the more extreme situations that other people have dealt with. ETA: I’m realizing I kinda misread your question. Yeah, if the person was still a JW but they had relaxed the sunning policy, I’m not sure how I’d feel or how I’d react if people reached out to me. That one would be a lot more difficult to overlook. Just for my mental health, I don’t think I’d want that person back in my life if they were still an active JW.
If I had parents that shunned me for years; The only way I will forgive you is if you leave the Watchtower. Because you are in a cult that worships a demon that murders 70,000 of his own followers because a King took a censusl If you continue to stay in the Watchtower that means you are evil, and I don'\[ want anything to do with people that are evil, family or not. .
True so true , somehow people ( not just JWs) don't see that the god of the bible is plain evil and killed more people than satan
As someone who was shunned by a family member for almost a decade, the damage has been done and I will never be able to trust that they won't do it again, when it was so easy for them to do it the first time - and they didn't even have to by their religion's rules. I think that even if they did away with shunning, the damage is going to last decades, until every person that shunned or was shunned is long gone. They spend so much time telling people to forgive those who have wronged them, they don't even know how to make amends with someone they have wronged. It's like it's expected that you will just forgive and forget with no effort made on the the offender's part to rebuild the relationship.
having been shunned for 40 years by my brothers, who are currently not fully shunning me now because i'm less disposable when they want my efforts in caregiving for parents...i decided to help based on my own feelings and morals. it's one of my personal standards not to ever let my own morality be dictated by others. no more cults for me! one (super pimi elder) brother has gone back to soft shunning now, because i told him his witnessing at me was unwelcome. when mom dies we'll go back to hard shunning. one i think would not shun me at all if not for his crazy pimi wife, but he loves her and as it is he keeps contact very limited. one i'm sure will probably go back to shunning unless, you know, he wants something. because that's how he is. the general, unspoken undercurrent is that i should be grateful to them for speaking to me at all. mom wants to act like we're besties. after soft-shunning me all those years, including many years where she and dad would NOT say they "loved me." i have tried really hard to look at it like, as screwed up as their beliefs are, they are, indeed, doing what they feel is right. i try to be understanding. but the whole undertow, like i am tainted, dangerous, "unclean" (and my mom actually used that word). and then she doesn't understand why i'm not planning vacations with her and crap. it's just fucked up. i'm talking to a therapist. LOL
I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through all this and for such a long period of time. Good to hear you’re getting support. x
thank you. i appreciate that. and i'm sorry you know what the shunning is like as well. none of us deserve it.
When the ppl who are the staple of your first sense of self, trust, and relationships betrays you the way many parents have in the disfellowshipping process, there is no redemption. I’m sure there are many who will welcome the contact warmly. But my guard would ALWAYS be up around my family who are pimi. Always waiting for some lame excuse to drop me and my family for something they find more interesting. I mean, shit, they did it even while I was IN, like full PIMI in. I got layers of “fuck off” under my distrust for the ppl I left behind. TLDR same, OP. Same
I would have never forgiven them, period. And once they shunned me, once they chose to turn their backs on me in favour of a fairy tale, I would have never spoken to them again, for any reason, not even if they woke up and left. I was abandoned at the age of 3 by my birth father, which left its own scars as you can imagine. This is a line you don't cross with me. There is no coming back from it. Fortunately, while my parents (step dad IS dad to me) are still trapped in this cult, losing me forever, and knowing they would if they shunned me, was not something they were willing to put to the test.
Yes. One of my older brothers has shunned me for the last 20 years. He’s shunned me half my entire life. I will never forgive him or my sister in law for how they’ve treated me, it’s evil and inhumane
Yes. Because the day the stop shunning and my old “friends” and mother call me I’ll actively start shunning them.
I'm 42 years old now. The relationship with my mother was gone by the time I was 14. Nothing they could do or say could repair the damage or change that shes a 'card carrying' cult member. I've made peace with that and have carried on with life.
I can. I don't think I would ever be super close to them, but I shunned family members for over 20 years before I woke up so I can't judge. I would take it as an opportunity to maybe drop hints about how it's a cult. But, I realize my experience is probably very different from others. Btw: my family 100% shun me currently.
I never had friends. My mother didnt want me to have friends because she was worried that I would tell about the child abuse in the home. If anyone was nice to me she argued with them. If anyone encouraged me or rold me i did a good job with a comment or a part I would be beaten when I got home and demanded to tell the details of the conversation and told not ro believe everything people told me so as not to get a 'big head' to destroy any form of self esteem. Being df'd was never a punishment because what would I miss out on.. COMMENTING? Not friends because I wasnt allowed any, not family because both sides were nonJW and I was ostracized from them as well.. no one knows who I am ( my family is HUGE.. its so sad that I could be walking pass cousins and wouldn't even know it)
It's too late. My sibling and their family that shunned me are just someone I used to know.
So much damage done, this policy is evil. I love my kids with all my heart, but my spouse did so much damage… I have to constantly stop my blood from boiling over what she did. Announcing all over the city that I had gone apostate before I had even left. She ruined my relationship with my children. I can’t imagine this happening, but with my kids my love is unconditional.
If I was being shunned by JW family and the GB abandons the practice, for me to reconnect with my JW family they would have to... * Apologize for past shunning, admitting that they were wrong for engaging in it. * Swear that they would never return to shunning me if the organization changes back to requiring shunning. If they can't do this, then I'm not interested in reconnecting with them, because it would clearly mean that they're not truly repentant for their past actions; and that they love Watchtower organization and its Governing Body more than me, their own flesh and blood. What kind of person puts loyalty to an organization above love for their own family to the extent of inflicting pain on their relatives in obedience to the organization?
Yes. The self righteous one would do it anyway….. That’s how they are.
I grew up in the JW cult and a cult of one, my father. He had a meeting to tell my siblings I was bad association after I revealed that he was not superman (narc). They soft shunned me decades before I left, but we never had a real family anyway as it revolved around dear ole dad. The only sibling that isn't in the cult is in a cult of one with their spouse. I have not had time with them in person for 30 years without said spouse calling to interrupt, or causing them to arrive 2 to 3 hours late due to something like light rain, many times they call my sibling to come to help with the family business and cut the visit short. The narc spouse cut off my siblings friends, then put them back on Facebook (took over their account) to get some needed friends, as if it was their fault. 🤦🏻♀️ JW is a narcissistic cult, grows and attracts them, and ruins all family life. My husband doesn't have a much better story, but one of his siblings does have a normal relationship with us. I escaped much of this repetition by marrying another scapegoat, and no one close to us approved of the union. My mother had no opinion, my father was silent when my hubby asked for my hand (old fashioned). Hubby has balls of steel to stand up to my jerk dad. No, the GB changing doctrine would not change a damn thing for my family. My few friends that would try to reconnect (I got sick and lost most of them, they weren't real friends. If it happens to you and you don't have cancer, you'll see.) would keep using passive language like "We are so fortunate that we don't have to worry about such and such problem in the organization",🤮 that I'd rather stick to my new fun friends that wouldn't look down on my holiday decorations, etc. Lesbians and ex-jw friends are so much better.
It wouldnt be enough to stop the pimis from shunning, generations and so much sunk cost would continue to move their conscience to distance themselves. To have any ACTUAL change I think they would haveto say you must have relationships with friends and family that arnt in the truth or else get dfd, lol You would need to use the threat of shunning to stop them from shunning
Would you say some of them get a kick out of shunning?
I think it sets you up as morally superior in your own mind to be above someone so much that you can’t even talk to them, you can’t risk lowing your kingly self so far as to cast a glance at the peasants. Definitely some kind of power trip or feel batter about yourself Those that judge others the hardest like that usually have something to hide themselves
Morally superior “in your own mind” is so real
I think some get a sense of ‘I did something great for Jehovah today’. when we were young my pimi sister would toss her head high in the air when she saw a DF in public and make a show of crossing the street. ( she was like 13) then she would tell everyone what she did like she was going to get a sticky star from the teacher.
Just like the pants/ beard fiasco. JWs claim DF is biblical but what happens when the GB change the rules ? Is it no longer biblical?
My first thought
I forgave my family. Every situation is different tho.
Massively. To think that people, especially family, could cut you off and treat you like you are dead, is horrible. My mum said to me the other day, “I love you but I can’t associate with you because Jehovah comes first”. I told my mum friends on the school run and they were like “what? wtf 😳 that’s not normal. How can she love you but want nothing to do with you?”. I don’t feel loved. I don’t feel accepted. Do I want to accept someone back fully who can make me feel that way? Should I? What would we say to a person in a relationship with someone treating them like that? Leave right? And if they considered going back to them, we would remind them of what the person did and hopefully they’d stay far away. So… why would we allow people who have treated us terribly and to be blunt, abused us, to waltz back in like they’ve done nothing wrong?
I would have trouble reconnecting and trusting again. Especially with a family member who never even gave me closure or heard me out.
The damage has been done once shunning has happened. I know from experience. And I was never a bad person. I just didn’t fit the Jehovah’s Witnesses book of expectations. It is not up to me to fix the mistakes of the people who behaved a certain way. They made the error, it’s on them to make amends. If they don’t, they can go fuck themselves, as far as I’m concerned.
So if they apologised you’d be open to reconciliation?
For sure. No reason not to. If someone is genuine, realises that they made a mistake and were wrong, and wants to make amends, that is progress and is a good thing, and the first step in making things better.
Just curious. You wouldn’t be worried about it happening again?
Nope. And it couldn’t happen again. I have moved on light years from those days and I am a happy, content, proud, atheist and apostate. There’s no way that shunning could happen again because I don’t allow that behaviour anymore. Anyone who does behave like that, is the same as someone who doesn’t exist to me. They are completely irrelevant. The Jehovah’s Witnesses already did the damage once, they don’t get to do it again to me.
Once a shunner always a shunner. No use for them. Basket of deplorables.
Everyone that I know who was shunned is never the same. They always have a story of the experiences they had, like people not holding the door for them at meeting, crossing the street to avoid them, bringing back up their past once they're reinstated. They remember the small acts of kindness from a very small group that probably encouraged them. JWs find it easier to practice the more cruel aspects of their religion, and never seem to understand the compassion Jesus showed for sinners in the gospel accounts. The crazy thing is, most JWs have some type of immoral conduct that they hide, it makes them feel better to point at others who have been exposed.
I screenshot this. So perfectly observed
It depends. "I'm sorry. We were wrong to do it." I can work on repairing the relationship. "Hey, we just received new light from the organization and we don't have to shun anymore. Isn't that great?" Nothing has changed. I still can't trust them.
I don't know if the JWs are to blame or just my messed up family. I recently (last year) ran into an elder while he was on break, and he even admitted (as an outsider) that he could see there was no love in my family's home Shunned or not I have cut the toxicity from my life
Not sure how that's going to work JWs are very judgemental people. Good luck with that.
Yeah it’s a lot of fake love used to boost their reputations in the congregation. There’s only a handful of people I would talk to if they reached out to me. The rest of them are DFd from my life.
Ultimately it's individual members choice to shun. The larger picture is that the organisation coerced them and that makes the organisation a cult, a high control group but individuals went along with it.
Here's the thing. The JW's aren't minimalizing if not eventually eliminating the shunning policy because they all of a sudden became merciful. They're only doing it because of pressure from the governments and other human rights activists because of the shunning policy. The only thing they're doing is changing the official stance, what's in print. We all know that there is a difference between what's in print and what is actually happening in the organization. I think there will be a tendency to for families to at least give more attention to their relatives who are disfellowshipped. But the elders are still going to find a way to convey to the rank and file that associating with people who are disfellowshipped is bad for their status in the congregation and possible privilege restrictions. They'll manage to get the job done like they used to if that's what they really want to do. The official stance will change, but I think it'll be business as usual behind the scenes.
Ahhh, thank you, I was scrolling down to see if someone got here before me. I’m 100% sure that my mother and old guard like her would still shun regardless of new light. Because she would believe it’s still the right thing to do and probably read between the lines that the GB only updated things to align with government policy, but the underlying message is the same as before
I am disfellowshiped. It's been 30 years... There is nothing left... I can't go back. Even if I wanted to.. what would be the benefit?
Based on I'm not df or Da but still shunned. I feel like if it's left up to the family members to decide they still will shun us since we are pomo “apostates”. They will still guilt family members into not talking to us since we will not return to the Borg. It would only work if they actually agree on not talking about the org or any religion for that matter but they are trained to only talk about it. Otherwise, My mom would have her first grandson in her life but the org talked her into her youngest daughter an apostate for not agreeing to csa and SA. They actually told her “One shouldn't leave because of that. It's like they are turning away from Jehovah over something we have no control over”. Side note: If you look up the legal definition of Christian and apostates the GB are the actual apostates 🤷♀️ but that's my opinion.
Good point. They’re trained to talk about the Borg and who wants that?
Yesterday my sister saw me at the post office. And just came up to me and started asking about my health. So weird. I just keep wondering what was her intention?
How did you react?
Unless they wanna truly apologize, I won’t give a rat’s ass!
My mother and sister lost all of their friends instantly and went thru insane anxiety and depression. And so did I watching them. I eventually left. But I also recently got disfed. No way they wanna catchup or talk to old friends who just dropped them when they needed them the most. Nope. It’s all a big clown fest.
Unforgivable. My sister has been shunned for 40 years and is much more forgiving/healed than me.