Funny how that works... I used to down 2 full drinks on meeting nights when I got home. I was so stressed, overworked, and pissed off that alchool was my escape. And I'm not talking 2 beers or 2 shots... I'm talking 2 AMF's, or an old fashioned and an AMF... or an AMF and a beer... Basically an AMF plus something else that would put me over the edge. It got scary near the end of the time I was serving - I was downing 2 AMF's and barely feeling it. That CAN'T be good for one's liver.
Now that I am PIMO I far less. I will happily enjoy a beer with dinner, or open a bottle of wine and share it with my wife over the course of the evening.
He's looking furtive and trying to be incognito with his hat and trench coat.
He probably looked the same way back he used to go to the adult video store for rentals and purchases.
What a beautiful way to phrase it. Yes freedom from a cult. Freedom to explore other ideas, concepts of religion and/or spirituality. It comes from your soul..just feel the freedom, it great to not be force-fed a lie.
Looked into various philosophies and really came to terms somewhere between Existentialism (some call it Optimistic Nihilism) for bigger picture stuff, and Stoicism for day to day living.
The idea within Existentialism that was so appealing to me was that if life has no central or grand purpose it shouldn’t be disheartening, rather it only means that **you** now get to create and give your life whatever meaning you so desire.
Stoicism helped me come to terms with how I handled and viewed things outside of my control.
A good book to start with would be *”At the Existentialist Café”* by Sarah Bakewell
Or deep dive into existentialist thinkers such as Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, Albert Camus, or Martin Heidegger
Highly recommended short videos on the subject:
[Crash Course video on Existentialism](https://youtu.be/YaDvRdLMkHs)
[Kurzgesagt on Optimistic Nihilism](https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14)
I miss having someone to trip with! My current partner doesn't do psychedelics, unfortunately. My best trip ever was two summers ago on a raft down a river, when I realized JWs were a cult. I had refused to look at apostate material until I thought about it while tripping. And then it was just beautiful nature the whole time.
Lol. But yeah you can. When I was young I led a “double life” which included pot, cocaine etc. but I believed. I just wanted to experience things. I eventually “confessed” when I had stopped doing things for several months, got private reproof and moved on with my life with the borg. Wish I had tried mushrooms back then (I have now several times) maybe I would have woke up. I don’t think you can lie to yourself on mushrooms.
My first ever trip was admittedly bad, because I was working through so much shit at the time. Emotionally constipated for so long, I had never let myself really feel. It opened my eyes to how the world is beautiful and scary but worth exploring
That sucks. I've never had a bad trip, even though I never tripped until right after I got shunned, so my mental state wasn't great. I had researched how to have good trips and made sure not to take too much. Sometimes it was unpleasant, but I could snap myself out of it with music or art.
My ex, however; was kind of a party animal and took too much and didn't handle emotions well. So of course, he had a bad time because he wasn't doing it for introspection.
I do miss tripping but it's definitely not fun alone. Maybe someday.
I love having trips (I've had a couple negative experiences however) they always make me grow as a person and think differently..but always make me feel more comfortable in my own skin.
Nice, I’m micro and macro dosing shrooms now and have consumed one tab of LSD. Looking into extracting my own dmt.
I take it you benefited more from the lsd or dmt? Or did you just had more access to it?
Which substance do you feel helped you the most?
It was a combination of more access and the fact that although shrooms were beneficial, those trips were pretty brutal. The kind of thing I’d only want to do once or twice a year.
Acid was helpful and fun. It made me feel great, made me want to hike the entire day and I never got tired. It was also so life affirming and it made me want to travel and meet all sorts of people.
DMT is just fucking cool. Maybe not as “helpful” as acid because the DMT trip is over so quickly but the experiences filled me with so much awe
Even when I was in, I had my doubts about a paradise or if it was real, that I would even make it in. Now that I’m out, I don’t live with the fear I had and the constant guilt that I’m not doing enough to get into paradise. That alone, is a paradise for me
I relate to this so much! Paradise just never felt REAL. I remember having vivid fantasies/dreams of my family all being there and me NOT. It felt comforting to see them all happy and me just not there. No pressure to live up to anything or expectations.Just my family happy, and j-man letting them happily forget about me.
It is difficult at 1st. I felt an initial freedom, before the shit hit the fan. Thoughts like “we are alone here, there’s no one who’s gonna save us.” And “holy shit! What happens when we die!” It was a difficult few months. I feel at peace now with not knowing. I hope there is some sort of after life, But I am ok with none. I don’t think I’ll know until it happens. I don’t believe in heaven or hell. But maybe another dimension. I have no idea. It’s prob evolution, that’s what I’m leaning towards, but I hope we have some sort of consciousness that moves on when you die. So I am going to go to a medium or something eventually and see what they can tell me. Probably seems strange for an ex jw but I am on a quest. I no longer feel anxious I’m thinking my quest will end eventually. I’m already ok with dying and just falling asleep. I like sleep so it can’t be that bad 🤷♀️. The only thing that makes me sad about that is the people I was very much looking forward to seeing again. I had to re mourn deaths. But maybe I will see them again. If there is another dimension I hope my dog is there too. I miss her so much. Good luck to you. As you can see from the comments it is a personal journey but we seem to be making it out ok. My 1st year I wondered if I’d ever feel “normal” and carefree like others seemed. I still have my moments but feeling more and more happy and I think more importantly for me I feel at peace.
Paradise? Only after we spend 1000 years cleaning up BILLIONS of innocent dead bodies. This will leave more than 100,000 dead bodies per survivor.
I am completely content living in the now then having to serve a god who would kill billions of innocent men women and children… even if it was all true and I was going to survive, no thank you I think I’ll pass.
Yes, Satan and his gang are let loose from their 1000 year black hole to mislead the nations yet again, on an assault against God's holy city. Revelation 20: 5-10.
What's the matter afraid of a little hard work?/heavy sarcasm.
Seriously, the picture they present of paradise is an indication of what goes on in their minds.
Dark, very dark.
This was my biggest battle and led to me having the longest period of quite serious depression I’ve ever experienced. I was genuinely in an uncontrollably bad place for several years.. but then it kind of all turned around in one day and now I’m happier than I’ve ever been.. and I mean that wholeheartedly
It all happened when I went for a walk with a good friend of mine who also woke up at the same time.. it was several years after waking up and we’d both just been drifting aimlessly in that time. We were having a bit of a heart to heart about life and our experiences and frustrations and what the cult had done to us.
I’ve always been a really keen hiker and spent quite a lot of my very limited spare time hiking or climbing but I always felt frustrated because I had such little free time having a fully time job and being a jw.. and it was almost always on my own because I didn’t have any worldly friends, couldn’t find any witness friends that really wanted to join me and couldn’t find a girlfriend that had any interests in anything other than studying the watchtower and knocking on doors. So there I was walking through some woodland with my friend and just had a total epiphany. I realised that I could now do whatever I wanted with my life and do it without any guilt so literally decided there and then that I was going going to throw myself completely into what I love most - adventure! I challenged myself to hike 100 new mountains over the following year and I’d do my best to surround myself with like minded people. It was around November at the time so I had 5 weeks to buy a load of new mountaineering kit, get fit and work out a bit of a strategy on how to do my challenge
The following year was honestly one of the most fun years of my life.. I explored so much of the uk’s national parks, summited 100 new mountains and met loads of truly wonderful new friends. I joined hiking groups on Instagram, had weekends away with them etc and discovered that actually now I can pursue whatever I want to pursue with zero guilt. The people I met were so wonderful and it led to a few romantic flings which was also very exciting (I was single back then) .. then the year after I decided I’d had so much fun I was going to do the same again but by that time I’d also discovered the camper van world, and after dreaming of owning one for decades, I just thought bugger it I’m gonna do it!! So I bought myself a vw camper van and entered that whole amazing world.. that summer was just about perfect. Leaving work on Friday, driving straight to a beach campsite and setting up my van next to a load of others.. making even more friends, bbqs on beaches etc .. if the weather was bad I’d go into one of the national parks and camp in it underneath mountains. I’d make myself dinner in the van, have a bottle of wine, listen to some dramatic music all in the shadow of a dark moody mountain on a stormy night. Then I’d wake up climb the mountain and then head to the local village for food.
Then Towards the end of that year I met the most wonderful girl who also loved this lifestyle and is genuinely the kindest, most loving girl you could ever imagine.. we’ve been together for four years now and for that entire time we’ve explored, adventured, laughed, hiked, wild camped on top of mountains in a tiny tent, camper vanned all over Europe, walked three long distance trails that have taken two weeks each to complete.. the list goes on.. but most importantly we’ve become best friends.
This all might sound a bit corny but it’s genuinely what has happened just on the back of being able to pursue what I love without any guilt at missing meetings or bad association. The key as far as I’m concerned is using the realisation that life is finite, to motivate you to do all the things you’ve wanted to do, and do them RIGHT NOW instead of waiting until some point in the future that never comes.. it made me do all of the things I’ve dreamt of doing and it hasn’t stopped. In 2023 we’re planning on hiking Everest base camp, then possibly Kilimanjaro after that.. but even if something happened and we don’t get to do those things, I know we’ll have a life full of adventure doing something else. The best feeling in the world is the feeling that when you’re eventually lying on your death bed, you can look back at your life and have countless happy memories and be content that you’ve wrung every ounce of fun out of your time on this planet
You have always had paradise, just blocked from the cult. Live your life now, in paradise. After death, paradise still continues regardless of religious belief. Just be a good person to get it.
I was living life on pause as a JW. Want to travel? Wait until Paradise! Want to explore new hobbies and interests? You'll have forever to do that in Paradise!
I can do all of that NOW!!!!
I honestly never really looked forward to Paradise on earth. Not the JW version anyway. It all felt like a fairytale to me so I never put much hope in it. And the idea of living in a JW system of governance and your fellow JWs happy non JWs would die at Armageddon never sat well with me. After I woke up and got out I was not sad about this carrot on a stick called "paradise ". I've come to realize a fulfilling life is what you make of it. I found more joy in the freedom to make my life my own and create my own paradise. We all will die one day so the time is now! It should not be wasted living for some fairytale paradise that will never happen.
Maybe I’m too anxiety-ridden, but even when I was PIMI for 25 years I never once felt confident that I’d make it. It has always struck me as incredibly arrogant when dubs talk about how they’re excited for the end. Like really?? You’re that confident you’re gonna be good enough huh?
Just met some PIMI friends yesterday (they don’t know I’m PIMO/fading).
They were feeling so anxious and worrying about world situation and the war here in Europe.
It made me think now that I know paradise isn’t coming and I’m not constantly hearing JW *armageddon is coming, world is under Satan & bad but JW good* propaganda at meetings, publications, videos etc. I don’t feel anxious and worried anymore.
If you leave - you also leave many of your fears behind.
I was dead for 13.7 billion years before I was born and it didn’t bother me at all. I suspect it to be the same after I die.
(Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo)
This is how I always try to think of it.
Until I have a mini melt down about death.
Then I convince myself there might be something after death, although I know it not to be the “new world” as we were taught.
We shall see!
Hope for the Paradise went out with my mother’s death in hospice, this year, February 2022. All she wanted to do was see her parents in paradise again. They had such a hard and short lived life. We did her hospice in my apostate home. She was cared for by me, my wife and my gay sister. With PIMI brother not too far away and in constant contact. We were lucky really. She lasted to 91. And actually had a few bucks to pass around even. Whereas her parents died in their 50’s, penniless…
I walked away from the “Snare and Racket” in 2019. I didn’t necessarily think about the paradise then. It was all just bullshit. If you think it suck’s watching a child realize there is no Santa Claus. I saw my momma come to realize the difference between her good intentions and making her peace to her family. That must’ve been one hell of a conversation she had with her short change God. I’m gritting my teeth as I write this…
She was not alone when she died. She was surrounded by people who love her. We held her hand and told her “it was okay. We’re gonna be okay. We Love her…” and watched the light go out in her eyes. The Paradise and hope for it died with my mother. The catalyst behind us even being in this Fucking Religion.
Now, I do the best I can to enjoy each moment. Tell people that I love them etc. I try not to think that I’m 58 years too late figuring life out. And we’re not bad off. I try not to think about what I might have otherwise done. My life doesn’t suck - that much. And “The sun will come out tomorrow.”
I believe in a higher power because I've had interactions with paranormal beings and I figure that it also means that there are all sorts of things. I honestly thought that living in paradise would be so boring. I'm about to find out, seeing that I'm terminally ill and at the moment I'm in a hospital ICU. Not sure how much longer I have, but I'm not afraid.
I’m continually fascinated and amazed that we are even here at all, a result of billions of years of evolution who will eventually become extinct. I do what I like & just try to enjoy what life I have left with my loved ones on this tiny blue rock. I live my life on my terms unencumbered by the nonsense of patriarchy. Mentally freeing myself from societal expectations and norms has brought me great peace.
I still believe in a higher power and afterlife, but I don’t believe we’re living in the final part of the final part of the last days. So I’d better make the most out of my life now.
Too many JWs don’t take care of their health or stay in soul crushing menial jobs because they believe the end is coming any day now.
Honestly, I never believed there would be a paradise on earth. So it wasn't a stretch for me when I walked away. As for a purpose? Living life fully became my purpose. Went to school, got a career, traveled, experienced all I could, got married to a wonderful woman and now have a family. Belief systems for me are too triggering. I am very atheist. I believe in science and living. But you have the opportunity to find what fits for you without some dark overlord telling you what to think and feel 24/7. Enjoy being able to learn EVERYTHING! ✨️
That's a good question.
I believe in a creator so in my case that helps me to have a future hope.
Heaven, paradise, the intermediate place or whatever anyone else calls it.
I believe there might be something else not just cause I want to believe it but also cause I don't subscribe to everything coming about by mere chance. Just too much precision and complexity in everything.
It would be nice to say I found a religion that actually is completely true but I haven't. Just many little truths in many different religions but not all in one.
The learning continues!
“Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.” ~ Rainer Maria Rilke
This quote was shared with me by my JW-approved therapist over 25 years ago. It allowed me to take the leap to LEAVE the cult, and it still applies. Live every moment of THIS life! Follow your passions. Live YOUR authentic life. Focus on healing, wherever that may lead. Its a long, windy road. But so worth it to be free!
Everything is amazing. Our very existence is a miracle. And we only get to experience it for a flash and then it’s gone. It’s so special and precious and amazing. That’s it. That’s the whole point of everything. To just enjoy it.
Realizing that what JWs call paradise would be hell. You'd be trapped with nasty, judgemental cultists forever, unless they executed you--yes, you can now be executed in paradise.
I went through this phase also. Came to the sweet conclusion that life is too short to worry about paradise or what happens when we die. Start a family or care for the one you may have. Enjoy life and once in a while get high or whatever. Go back to school or pick up a hobby. I learned that moderation is key…many who leave the borg get in trouble because they party too hard; even harder than most “worldly people”. Perhaps so used to being restricted they feel the need to make up for lost time..
Be a good citizen; maybe volunteer or at least stay out of trouble with the law.
To be honest I never thought I was going to make it to paradise as a JW as I always felt threatened that I wasn't being a good enough JW, and I remember them saying constantly that being a baptized JW, preaching, and doing things "right" according to them was not enough to deserve paradise.
So I simply a abandoned those toxic beliefs, now I feel no guilt and nothing has changed. I guesss all of us interpret this cult's teaching's differently. Mosts JWs believe Jehová will "read hearts" in Armageddon and save a bunch of people that are not baptized JWs, but those who payed attention to the insane fat alcoholic pricks of the governing body know that's not the official teaching. In retrospective, it's embarrassing we ever take their teachings seriously.
The jw paradise fell so short of what the Bible teaches . It seemed very stepford wife’s and plastic to me.. The Bible doesn’t say that a paradise on earth is the destiny of humanity. In a very tldr version of eschatology: . The people who are on gods side are taken to heaven ( at an undisclosed time but based on the Bible it’s been imminent since Jesus left), the people who died and those who are still alive when he decides it’s time. Meanwhile on earth, the world tries to continue, but with the power vacuum that is left from the absence of the Holy Spirit and the Church(The believers) being gone, the antichrist who is a human world leader rises to power. Hitler is a forerunner so we know how it works. Without going into detail about how this happens satan basically takes over him. There is 3 years of relative peace. He institutes a world wide money system where the mark is the way you use it. You can’t buy and sell without it. It’s also a form of worship a buy into that system. He also institutes a world religion .. it will be some kind of coexist all roads lead to heaven you can be your own god type of thing. Some bastardization of Abrahamic religion but without the sin issue. Sin won’t be an issue. Then he signs a treaty with Israel and takes over the temple. He eventually demands worship. But the last 3 years are so bad like nothing earth has ever seen. Then Armageddon happens the believers are with Jesus the people who didn’t take the mark have been martyred or will be protected and the people who war with Jesus will be destroyed. Satan is bound and then there will be 1000 years of peace with Jesus as king. But there will still be rebels and people who don’t want his rule. People will continue to be born. There will be the resurrection of the faithful people of old, people who died without a chance to hear the gospel and the world will get a chance to see what if’s like with the the rightful king. This will be the new earth and it will be different sort of heaven and earth combined or at least the veil between the spirit world will be lifted. After the 1000 years the devil will be let out and the people who rebel will follow. And they are destroyed forever. Then there is the great white throne.. where every human stands before their maker with their deeds laid bare. The ones who are under the blood.. those who accepted Jesus payment are not judged bc their sins are erased. The ones who are not covered pay their sin debt which is eternal death/lake of fire/hell/eternal cutting off. Now I flip flop between eternal death and conscious hell. But it don’t matter that much to me. After that the Bible says we enter eternity with God. Humanity has been purified and return to its original state. Now we know good and evil but have no sin left in us and can be in communion with the father .. I don’t know what that means exactly
I’m not sure what you are getting at. I’m saying this is what the Bible says. My point being that jw are wayyyy off the mark so if you’ve lost your belief in jw teachings they were never true to begin with.
Now if you are trying to say the Bible isn’t true that is a different discussion. Jw don’t follow the Bible
https://orionmagazine.org/article/wild-darkness/
I read this every so often and remember that I’m part of all life, no better, not different, and what I think makes me special is a story that I use to justify my selfish behaviors. But the ecosystem is incomplete without me as I am without it.
I'm still struggling with it. The really messed up part for me is I was not ever PIMI, I was mostly POMI. When I was young it was expected of me. My brother passed away and that killed my dad's faith. We fell away. Still, through my adult life time, always, always ran into someone who knew my family. Always saw it as a "sign from Jehovah" to come back. I always tried but my nagging questions would not be answered and the ones that did get answered, I scoffed at the results. I blamed it on being "too worldly" to have more faith and tried harder. I even brought my oldest into it and I'm so effin pissed about that and guilt ridden. A LOT has transpired since then and my life is forever changed. I'm so angry for not having a glint of paradise now and I'll never see my brother again. Robbers and thieves 😡
I just love the fact I have my one existence I will ever get and now it is MINE!
Fuck paradise, living for a finite amount of time free of the b0rg has been endlessly amazing.
Focusing on my business, health, marriage, child’s future.
Enjoying new things and allowing myself to enjoy some things completely guilt free!!
Exploring & education on mindset & wealth development, 2 big things the CULT stole from me.
Realizing that to some extent the entire world is in a CULT, makes me both sad and happy.
I’m going to work creating my own paradise, and guess what? I’m helping more people along the way to do the same! 🙌🙌 truly helping people NOT just standing by a Cart wasting my time 😊
Enjoy life!
I always thought it would be a torture living without answers to fundamental questions and without a hope for the future. Now, as a POMO, I am agnostic. I am so gratefull that life happens to me! Is there some pourpose to all this? I don't know. Life is a mystery! I accept that and enjoy it. And try to love and live in a way that makes me and people around me happy.
I thinki came to realize even when i was PIMI that the "paradise" depicted didn't even make sense. There are tons of biomes today that are inhospitable to humans but are the only places on earth where certain creatures exist. The kind of paradise where "pretty much everywhere is either tropical or temperate" really erases actual biology, geography, and ecology. I enjoy the earth for the paradise it is, and I'm okay with life not having any meaning dictated by a bizarre patchwork tyrannical god. Nature is my deity in a way, and I'm fine doing the best I can with whatever I'm doing. It's hard to unlearn the whole "what is my meaning in life" narrative when even non-witness ambient society goes by it, but it's really freeing. We reproduce for each generation to live their lives as best as possible and then pass away. It's fun imo
The paradise they describe nowadays is not a place I would want to spend eternity. I came to peace with the thought that I'll rather be happy for now than wait to be happy in some imaginary place.
My kids, and my husband who is also forging a new path with me outside the org. Focusing on the people who are permanently in my life. Paradise was always a facade. Even while I was in it was hard to understand why my parents would shun me (if I messed up) so that they could live for forever in a commune. Paying it forward to my own children is how I cope. Also following my heart’s desires (because *gasp! My evil heart can’t be trusted lol). Freedom for a single lifetime is better than eternity in a cage. Merry Christmas
"The water was brought in buckets from a small stream that ran a few hundred feet away. One of their first assignments was to remove any corpses that were floating in the stream or that were found laying along its banks. It wasn't only the bloating human bodies but those of animals also. They had managed to catch a large draft horse that had survived. They had nicknamed the horse "Fireball". They had been mildly reprimanded for their audaciousness. Using the horse they were able to drag the larger carcasses out of the stream. It was their nearest water source. They depended on it to supply the needs of all who in the vicinity had survived."
I try to live in the moment now and see life as an experience-based ~experience~ haha
No longer postponing all the joy and pleasures that were always being saved for later
It takes a long time (did for me anyway) but you learn to accept that one day you will die. It doesnt matter what you believe- the fact is that EVERY SINGLE THING that has been, or is alive, has either died, or WILL die. Its inexcapable. We are no different to everything and everyone else in that regard.
Is that a miserable thought? It doesnt matter. It is a fact that we have to come to terms with later on in our lives than most people.
There is no point in living for a life that has no evidence of existing in the future. The life we have PROOF of is NOW! live that one.
Create purpose. Humans are inovators, we like to make things. You lost one thing that wasn't true, now you can seek or make that one thing that is true to you and others around you (don't start a religion lolz)
life is more than the reward of everlasting life on paradise on earth.
when i started living my life in this world, in this time— i feel more connected to it and it’s rich and rewarding. you can take pride at yourself for your small contribution to the world, your talent, your skills!
and you don’t have to feel guilty all the time. you are whole! you’re living the life that was given to you and loving it
Despite all the doom and gloom out there (by WT AND the news) about how wrecked the earth is, it’s still a beautiful place. Get out there and enjoy it. Go for a walk, take a weekend hike, go camping, buy a bird book and go birding, go paddling, or plant a garden. You’ll feel the stress melt away and appreciate life again. Maybe you’ll even find a cause to live for.
It always struck me as a PIMI how beautiful the natural world still is despite how wrecked everyone says it is, and that it really wouldn’t take much after the big A for the earth to be restored.
The fact that there is no god or divine purpose is no excuse to fall into despair. It means life is that much more of a miracle, something to be savored.
Paradise was looking less and less appealing the more they tried to explain it, so it wasn't difficult to let go of.
Now coping with my own mortality is different. I've just been kicking that bottle down the road. I'm young. I'll think about it later
Even as a witness I had a hard time believing that the paradise was ever going to happen. So I always had the thought of dying and never waking up. I mean the amount of times they told us that it wasn’t guaranteed even with working hard in the “truth” was a way to whip us into thinking we weren’t enough. I mean who hasn’t thought “well if god has mercy on me I’ll be there”
The only comfort I have is that we don’t know what happens but at that point in our lives we will want death to come. So enjoy life now with your family friends pets etc
If there’s no life after this one, then you’d better get started living!! That’s how I looked at it.
As a JW, you were encouraged (expected) to sacrifice your current life for one in Paradise. The way I see it, losing paradise in the future made me create my paradise NOW!
Hope this helps!
It can be daunting to face death and watch loved ones die, but after watching my grandfather die I realized that there's so much in life we take for granted on the daily.
Cherish your close ones, take moments to love yourself and aspects of the seasons , try to watch the moons phases or watch sunsets. Quiet moments are full of bliss, if we let ourselves feel them.
I think a lot of us think too much and feel too little, constantly buzzing with things we need to do or whatever. Our lives are meant to be enjoyed
Not having an answer to every question and a requirement has been liberating. There is a peaceful freedom to the unknown, and a joy to be free learning about many things in life, either from a Hindu Guru, or a Buddhist monk. The possibility to know and learn is my paradise.
I still have faith in God just not as jws view it! I believe we have “something better” awaiting us. Perhaps something our physical human nature is unable to comprehend.🤷🏼♀️. Whatever that be... I’m good!!
So currently just trying to live the best life possible according to scripture, without fear, with happiness and without the pressure of men directing everything I do...I’m freed of that...🙏🏽
Immortality would be amazing and I could accomplish every aspiration I ever had with immortality.
But my presence in this physical body is finite, I have my duty to do the best I can with this body of mine to make sure many other people can enjoy the gift of being alive that come after me.
The purpose of life is to continue life.
... Or if you want a scriptural doctrine supporting this "be fruitful and multiply" this is what drives evolution.
Honestly knowing that there’s a more than decent chance you’re gonna die and that’s the end helps give meaning to life. Do the best you can, do good if not for the sake of doing good then because it’s better for you in the long run, and when it’s all over let the chips fall where they may.
One of the most tragic things about this cult is the number of people they have convinced to give up this life in the hopes of the next. It’s literally millions of people just waiting to die and it’s truly heartbreaking.
If I’m being honest deep down I lean towards some form of reincarnation but I find that acting as if the above is true brings the most peace and awareness
I now look at paradise a method that I was infantilized by the organizers of the cult. It is something to tell children that are afraid of the dark.
I see the thought experiment of paradise as an insult now: That I am too weak, too simple, too fearful to understand the universe that my consciousness briefly navigates.
They do it because they want my consciousness to focus on them, and to give them money and free labor.
We are all bigger, smarter, and stronger then the children that need a lie to fall asleep. We have a duty to this life.
Don’t give those chuckleheads any attention, they are greedy child molester apologists. Paradise is the whip which they threaten you with.
Hold your head up and face death with your eyes open. You’re bigger then the darkness
New Testament is in no way attached to JW.org the old Christian creeds are way better than anything offered by the Borg. So being a Christian rather than being anti Christian as Jws are, adds purpose to life. Praying the rosary even though I’m not Roman Catholic keeps me grounded in putting away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. 1 Cor 13
I always felt the utopic New World gig was like a child who shared a room with his siblings.
They trash their room (typical kids), but instead of taking responsibility for it and working together, the kid expects daddy's going to one day come in and miraculously clean up the mess.
Oh, and the best part is, the first order of this cleanse will be to destroy his siblings (because, after all, he's not responsible for any of it).
What are we, 5???!!!
We need to help figure it out and enjoy the part we play in that journey because it's very brief.
For me, what brought comfort in what came after death, or what is the point of everything, was NDE’s. (Near death experiences) studies on that, confirmed studies done on reincarnation, etc, and now I don’t fear what comes after. I’ve also found new purpose in telling the stories I want to tell, pursuing a career in art, (I hope my stories and art can one day help people through the things they are going through) and one day, A big goal id like to do is start a non profit to help fight climate change. There is a way we can actually reverse it with these types of anthro-something ponds. And it something anyone can do. I can’t remember but the exact name but it’s something I’d like to pursue in order to have a planet to live on for future generations. Not a bad meaning in life I think. 😊
It’s a whole thing to find meaning. But you can make a change or fight for something if you want to. Or, you can just live to enjoy your life. Nothing wrong with that either. 💜
I knew I wouldn't make it to paradise anyway so I was just happy that no one is going and I can fuck girls and listen to satanic music how much I want. I also feel much better because my consience is clear now.
Live your life the way you want. Experience things that you never would have been able to before. Go on a trip if you can, go to a club and have some fun, go to a concert. I’m doing things and exploring things I didn’t have time to do or was able to do. I even went back to school and got another diploma.
Good luck exploring
I figure if there is no future paradise, then I focus myself on making the world better now for everyone as much as I am capable. Make peoples lives better and more interesting at every opportunity. This includes myself so I am not a slave to serving and become depressed.
Just enjoy the now. Enjoy the 80/60$ you have in your hands instead of throwing them away for a billion you will never get.
Even if all that he stuff was real you have to latch on to the end. If you let go Ina old age then everything you sacrificed was useless. It's a terrible policy if that's how Jah works but I digress
I decided I needed to find something true. I settled on "Everything is Energy and Energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transferred/converted."
So I decided it's okay to not have all the answers and maybe there isn't a purpose to "it all" but my personal purpose decided by me, is to charge up and release to the universe as much positive energy as possible so that whoever or whatever needs it can use it.
After the terror of realizing my own mortality and that I would "die in this system", now I feel liberated that I can finally chase after my dreams without any guilt and start living life to its fullest. I recommend you do all the things you wanted to do but couldn't, cos you weren't allowed. Life has a way of opening up so enjoy it!
I was just glad when I realised I wasn't going to have to see everyone and every thing I love die at armageddon. I dont need paradise, I need to live the one life I know I've got though
I guess since I never believed that paradise was real, I never had that loss.
I guess what you can do though, is actually focus on them life.you are.kviing currently. FOCUS ON YOUR HAPPINESS NOW. Thia is REAL LIFE! There are no gifts at the end of the rainbow, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it when it's here and it doesn't mean our lives are over.
It just means you need to do what makes you happy. You got this. Think for yourself! It's fun!
I'm soo with you on this. Turning 53 and sad to watch my parent's in there 80's realizing they ARE going to die in this system. My mother said to me the other day, "you better be there when I wake up". They were very abusive, closet kind. I still hate it bc you know they can only repeat the mantra that jehovah see's all you've done for his name. Really shaking me up. I'm at the same place as you. Feels like a whole life wasted with the feeling of hopelessness, searching for something
I believe in God, Jesus and the Bible. Just not what the JWs teach. They have a false Jesus, a false perverted translation of the Bible (NWT) and have no idea who the God of the Bible is. In addition they preach a false good news (Gospel).
I urge anyone with an open mind to read the New Testament(Christian Greek scriptures) as if it applies to them and not believe the lie the JWs taught them that it is written only to the ‘anointed’. Where is that in scripture that only the anointed should feel the New Testament is written mostly to them? No where. And where does it say in the scriptures that Jesus came to pay a ransom for us to live in a paradise? No where in the Bible does it say that!!.
The real gospel (good news) is found at **1 Corinthians 15:1-4**
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
And **Ephesians 2:8,9:**
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Notice how it says in Ephesians verse 8 and 9 that we are saved by grace and it is a GIFT. You don’t work for a gift. And verse 9 says not of works so no one can boast.
Am I right that the entire JW religion is based on people being rated on the works they do and boasting about it?
And yes, I believe there will be a 1000 year kingdom on earth. But it will not be what the JWs believe to be paradise nor will the people who will be there will not be who JW think
That's the only life I had, if I don't fight for whatever what I want, and don't live the life as the best I can, would be a wasted existence.
A truly owned purpose it's so much made than a fake and plastic one.
When I was a kid, I didn’t like going to the park and I didn’t like going to the zoo. The illustrations of paradise looked awful to me. So frankly I’m relieved.
I have shifted my focus to live my life as full and happy now as I have it. I still hold out hope that maybe there's more to it, but all we can really do is live. Like really live right now.
As someone commented above, trying to find peace in the fact that we were essentially “dead” for billions of years before birth can calm me down. I definitely don’t remember being upset about the fact that I wasn’t alive at any point lol.
It’s a scary thing, because all we know is this life but the truth (don’t kick me out) is that we don’t know what happens. Maybe our physical body does, the consciousness we have been receiving floats back into the cosmos and we “live” in a different sort of way. Maybe that portion of consciousness will channel into another being in another part of the universe or another dimension even.
Recorded history is like .000000000001^2 of the true history of the universe. We don’t know much of anything yet. And maybe we don’t need to.
Book a cruise to another continent! Paradise !!!
I never really saw myself in paradise while I was in which probably made it easier. I’ve always just tried to live my best life here with the people I love. Time is precious and there’s no point wasting it doing things we hate and not being who we really want to be.
The world *is* a paradise. They just blind you so you think it's all Satanic and horrible. People are beautiful. Air is wonderful to breathe. Water is wonderful to drink. God is everyone's friend.
It's not a paradise like a holiday resort where you do nothing. It's paradise like an adventure holiday. With puzzles, challenges, and a million games to play!
It's beautiful. Here and now is paradise!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOdkG4sqGfo ;)
Personally I always dreaded the new system. When you think about it “paradise” doesn’t sound so great. Everyone who’s not a witness will die a horrific violent death, we will have to bury bodies for hundred’s of years, all art and culture will be destroyed and nothing will replace it besides boring ass watchtower propaganda anyway, you will have no freedom of thought, no freedom to Pursue what you want, you won’t be able to feel sadness or anger, and if you don’t like any of this you will be killed as a criminal. Personally I would much rather have a life in this world with the freedom to find my own meaning and freedom pursue what makes me happy than an eternity in an authoritarian hell world.
I will know no different once I die. That’s what works for me. Your beliefs about afterlife may vary obviously.
Living my life how I want right now and being as good of a human being as possible right now is more important to me than a possible, but not guaranteed, “panda paradise”.
That was the hardest thing for me to deal with....I so wanted to see my loved ones who have died and live with them. For me it was like a death and I dealt with as such. Went through the grieving and anger....took a few years of that and now I've finally accepted it. Not sure if there is something after but hope so. I now live each day to the very fullest....no apologies and no excuses.
Enjoy life now. According to JW teaching there is only one true religion. If that’s true….and it’s obviously not the JWs then what are the chances of finding the right religion?
I’m making every moment count with my family. If there is some kind of afterlife then maybe I have lived a good enough life to see it.
Freedom to know that you can do anything you want without the constant control of a high control group of regular humans. The GB is not special by any means. I never even imagined that it was possible until I finally realized enough was enough.
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😉 But in fact I drink way way less now that I'm out.
Yerrr me too… but I smoke now so…
Funny how that works... I used to down 2 full drinks on meeting nights when I got home. I was so stressed, overworked, and pissed off that alchool was my escape. And I'm not talking 2 beers or 2 shots... I'm talking 2 AMF's, or an old fashioned and an AMF... or an AMF and a beer... Basically an AMF plus something else that would put me over the edge. It got scary near the end of the time I was serving - I was downing 2 AMF's and barely feeling it. That CAN'T be good for one's liver. Now that I am PIMO I far less. I will happily enjoy a beer with dinner, or open a bottle of wine and share it with my wife over the course of the evening.
The amount of friends that I see who are PIMI and their favourite activity together is drinkingggg loool
You sir, have won the internet 🏆🏆🤣🤣
The truth in this statement is immeasurable.
🎖
Damn.
He's looking furtive and trying to be incognito with his hat and trench coat. He probably looked the same way back he used to go to the adult video store for rentals and purchases.
😂
Freedom from a cult is my paradise.
What a beautiful way to phrase it. Yes freedom from a cult. Freedom to explore other ideas, concepts of religion and/or spirituality. It comes from your soul..just feel the freedom, it great to not be force-fed a lie.
Yes! Freedom to explore who you really are and to evolve into that naturally without forcing it.
Amen sista
Looked into various philosophies and really came to terms somewhere between Existentialism (some call it Optimistic Nihilism) for bigger picture stuff, and Stoicism for day to day living. The idea within Existentialism that was so appealing to me was that if life has no central or grand purpose it shouldn’t be disheartening, rather it only means that **you** now get to create and give your life whatever meaning you so desire. Stoicism helped me come to terms with how I handled and viewed things outside of my control.
I started believing in existentialism while I was still PIMQ. 😅 it just felt right.
Yep, this is where I naturally landed when I allowed myself to be reasonable about these things.
This is the way. 👆
Amen brother
This!!
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A good book to start with would be *”At the Existentialist Café”* by Sarah Bakewell Or deep dive into existentialist thinkers such as Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, Albert Camus, or Martin Heidegger Highly recommended short videos on the subject: [Crash Course video on Existentialism](https://youtu.be/YaDvRdLMkHs) [Kurzgesagt on Optimistic Nihilism](https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14)
Grew some happy mushrooms, had a nice trip to another dimension. Felt pretty good about life since. Understandably this isn't for everyone
I miss having someone to trip with! My current partner doesn't do psychedelics, unfortunately. My best trip ever was two summers ago on a raft down a river, when I realized JWs were a cult. I had refused to look at apostate material until I thought about it while tripping. And then it was just beautiful nature the whole time.
I gotta say, though, if you were taking pschadelics while still a witness...were you ever really "in" to start? Lol!
Lol. But yeah you can. When I was young I led a “double life” which included pot, cocaine etc. but I believed. I just wanted to experience things. I eventually “confessed” when I had stopped doing things for several months, got private reproof and moved on with my life with the borg. Wish I had tried mushrooms back then (I have now several times) maybe I would have woke up. I don’t think you can lie to yourself on mushrooms.
I wasn't taking them until after I left and was DFed. I was too PIMI to do anything like that while in.
My first ever trip was admittedly bad, because I was working through so much shit at the time. Emotionally constipated for so long, I had never let myself really feel. It opened my eyes to how the world is beautiful and scary but worth exploring
That sucks. I've never had a bad trip, even though I never tripped until right after I got shunned, so my mental state wasn't great. I had researched how to have good trips and made sure not to take too much. Sometimes it was unpleasant, but I could snap myself out of it with music or art. My ex, however; was kind of a party animal and took too much and didn't handle emotions well. So of course, he had a bad time because he wasn't doing it for introspection. I do miss tripping but it's definitely not fun alone. Maybe someday.
I love having trips (I've had a couple negative experiences however) they always make me grow as a person and think differently..but always make me feel more comfortable in my own skin.
I went all out last year and had around 5 shroom trips, 20ish acid trips and 30ish DMT trips. That solved around 95% of my existential crises
Nice, I’m micro and macro dosing shrooms now and have consumed one tab of LSD. Looking into extracting my own dmt. I take it you benefited more from the lsd or dmt? Or did you just had more access to it? Which substance do you feel helped you the most?
It was a combination of more access and the fact that although shrooms were beneficial, those trips were pretty brutal. The kind of thing I’d only want to do once or twice a year. Acid was helpful and fun. It made me feel great, made me want to hike the entire day and I never got tired. It was also so life affirming and it made me want to travel and meet all sorts of people. DMT is just fucking cool. Maybe not as “helpful” as acid because the DMT trip is over so quickly but the experiences filled me with so much awe
Gotcha, thanks for the information and I’m glad to hear it has helped you so much 😊
Even when I was in, I had my doubts about a paradise or if it was real, that I would even make it in. Now that I’m out, I don’t live with the fear I had and the constant guilt that I’m not doing enough to get into paradise. That alone, is a paradise for me
I relate to this so much! Paradise just never felt REAL. I remember having vivid fantasies/dreams of my family all being there and me NOT. It felt comforting to see them all happy and me just not there. No pressure to live up to anything or expectations.Just my family happy, and j-man letting them happily forget about me.
It is difficult at 1st. I felt an initial freedom, before the shit hit the fan. Thoughts like “we are alone here, there’s no one who’s gonna save us.” And “holy shit! What happens when we die!” It was a difficult few months. I feel at peace now with not knowing. I hope there is some sort of after life, But I am ok with none. I don’t think I’ll know until it happens. I don’t believe in heaven or hell. But maybe another dimension. I have no idea. It’s prob evolution, that’s what I’m leaning towards, but I hope we have some sort of consciousness that moves on when you die. So I am going to go to a medium or something eventually and see what they can tell me. Probably seems strange for an ex jw but I am on a quest. I no longer feel anxious I’m thinking my quest will end eventually. I’m already ok with dying and just falling asleep. I like sleep so it can’t be that bad 🤷♀️. The only thing that makes me sad about that is the people I was very much looking forward to seeing again. I had to re mourn deaths. But maybe I will see them again. If there is another dimension I hope my dog is there too. I miss her so much. Good luck to you. As you can see from the comments it is a personal journey but we seem to be making it out ok. My 1st year I wondered if I’d ever feel “normal” and carefree like others seemed. I still have my moments but feeling more and more happy and I think more importantly for me I feel at peace.
Yes as long as dogs are there, I'll go to whatever afterlife I can
Same
Paradise? Only after we spend 1000 years cleaning up BILLIONS of innocent dead bodies. This will leave more than 100,000 dead bodies per survivor. I am completely content living in the now then having to serve a god who would kill billions of innocent men women and children… even if it was all true and I was going to survive, no thank you I think I’ll pass.
Yeah. Also isnt there another test after the 1,000 years? Doesn’t he let the devil out? Or am I mixing up my cults again
Yes, Satan and his gang are let loose from their 1000 year black hole to mislead the nations yet again, on an assault against God's holy city. Revelation 20: 5-10.
Solid. Makes sense guys!
What's the matter afraid of a little hard work?/heavy sarcasm. Seriously, the picture they present of paradise is an indication of what goes on in their minds. Dark, very dark.
This was my biggest battle and led to me having the longest period of quite serious depression I’ve ever experienced. I was genuinely in an uncontrollably bad place for several years.. but then it kind of all turned around in one day and now I’m happier than I’ve ever been.. and I mean that wholeheartedly It all happened when I went for a walk with a good friend of mine who also woke up at the same time.. it was several years after waking up and we’d both just been drifting aimlessly in that time. We were having a bit of a heart to heart about life and our experiences and frustrations and what the cult had done to us. I’ve always been a really keen hiker and spent quite a lot of my very limited spare time hiking or climbing but I always felt frustrated because I had such little free time having a fully time job and being a jw.. and it was almost always on my own because I didn’t have any worldly friends, couldn’t find any witness friends that really wanted to join me and couldn’t find a girlfriend that had any interests in anything other than studying the watchtower and knocking on doors. So there I was walking through some woodland with my friend and just had a total epiphany. I realised that I could now do whatever I wanted with my life and do it without any guilt so literally decided there and then that I was going going to throw myself completely into what I love most - adventure! I challenged myself to hike 100 new mountains over the following year and I’d do my best to surround myself with like minded people. It was around November at the time so I had 5 weeks to buy a load of new mountaineering kit, get fit and work out a bit of a strategy on how to do my challenge The following year was honestly one of the most fun years of my life.. I explored so much of the uk’s national parks, summited 100 new mountains and met loads of truly wonderful new friends. I joined hiking groups on Instagram, had weekends away with them etc and discovered that actually now I can pursue whatever I want to pursue with zero guilt. The people I met were so wonderful and it led to a few romantic flings which was also very exciting (I was single back then) .. then the year after I decided I’d had so much fun I was going to do the same again but by that time I’d also discovered the camper van world, and after dreaming of owning one for decades, I just thought bugger it I’m gonna do it!! So I bought myself a vw camper van and entered that whole amazing world.. that summer was just about perfect. Leaving work on Friday, driving straight to a beach campsite and setting up my van next to a load of others.. making even more friends, bbqs on beaches etc .. if the weather was bad I’d go into one of the national parks and camp in it underneath mountains. I’d make myself dinner in the van, have a bottle of wine, listen to some dramatic music all in the shadow of a dark moody mountain on a stormy night. Then I’d wake up climb the mountain and then head to the local village for food. Then Towards the end of that year I met the most wonderful girl who also loved this lifestyle and is genuinely the kindest, most loving girl you could ever imagine.. we’ve been together for four years now and for that entire time we’ve explored, adventured, laughed, hiked, wild camped on top of mountains in a tiny tent, camper vanned all over Europe, walked three long distance trails that have taken two weeks each to complete.. the list goes on.. but most importantly we’ve become best friends. This all might sound a bit corny but it’s genuinely what has happened just on the back of being able to pursue what I love without any guilt at missing meetings or bad association. The key as far as I’m concerned is using the realisation that life is finite, to motivate you to do all the things you’ve wanted to do, and do them RIGHT NOW instead of waiting until some point in the future that never comes.. it made me do all of the things I’ve dreamt of doing and it hasn’t stopped. In 2023 we’re planning on hiking Everest base camp, then possibly Kilimanjaro after that.. but even if something happened and we don’t get to do those things, I know we’ll have a life full of adventure doing something else. The best feeling in the world is the feeling that when you’re eventually lying on your death bed, you can look back at your life and have countless happy memories and be content that you’ve wrung every ounce of fun out of your time on this planet
I love this! Many more happy years of hiking and discovery to you my friend!
Carpe Diem. Thanks for sharing your insightful Realization. 🙏🏼
This is so perfect!
Very nice
Instead of dwelling on it I took up interests that gave positive charge to my mood.
I love this a thousand times over.
You have always had paradise, just blocked from the cult. Live your life now, in paradise. After death, paradise still continues regardless of religious belief. Just be a good person to get it.
Nice
I was living life on pause as a JW. Want to travel? Wait until Paradise! Want to explore new hobbies and interests? You'll have forever to do that in Paradise! I can do all of that NOW!!!!
I honestly never really looked forward to Paradise on earth. Not the JW version anyway. It all felt like a fairytale to me so I never put much hope in it. And the idea of living in a JW system of governance and your fellow JWs happy non JWs would die at Armageddon never sat well with me. After I woke up and got out I was not sad about this carrot on a stick called "paradise ". I've come to realize a fulfilling life is what you make of it. I found more joy in the freedom to make my life my own and create my own paradise. We all will die one day so the time is now! It should not be wasted living for some fairytale paradise that will never happen.
Maybe I’m too anxiety-ridden, but even when I was PIMI for 25 years I never once felt confident that I’d make it. It has always struck me as incredibly arrogant when dubs talk about how they’re excited for the end. Like really?? You’re that confident you’re gonna be good enough huh?
Just met some PIMI friends yesterday (they don’t know I’m PIMO/fading). They were feeling so anxious and worrying about world situation and the war here in Europe. It made me think now that I know paradise isn’t coming and I’m not constantly hearing JW *armageddon is coming, world is under Satan & bad but JW good* propaganda at meetings, publications, videos etc. I don’t feel anxious and worried anymore. If you leave - you also leave many of your fears behind.
I was dead for 13.7 billion years before I was born and it didn’t bother me at all. I suspect it to be the same after I die. (Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo)
This is how I always try to think of it. Until I have a mini melt down about death. Then I convince myself there might be something after death, although I know it not to be the “new world” as we were taught. We shall see!
Absurdism is closest to my view. I watch the spectacle of it all
Hope for the Paradise went out with my mother’s death in hospice, this year, February 2022. All she wanted to do was see her parents in paradise again. They had such a hard and short lived life. We did her hospice in my apostate home. She was cared for by me, my wife and my gay sister. With PIMI brother not too far away and in constant contact. We were lucky really. She lasted to 91. And actually had a few bucks to pass around even. Whereas her parents died in their 50’s, penniless… I walked away from the “Snare and Racket” in 2019. I didn’t necessarily think about the paradise then. It was all just bullshit. If you think it suck’s watching a child realize there is no Santa Claus. I saw my momma come to realize the difference between her good intentions and making her peace to her family. That must’ve been one hell of a conversation she had with her short change God. I’m gritting my teeth as I write this… She was not alone when she died. She was surrounded by people who love her. We held her hand and told her “it was okay. We’re gonna be okay. We Love her…” and watched the light go out in her eyes. The Paradise and hope for it died with my mother. The catalyst behind us even being in this Fucking Religion. Now, I do the best I can to enjoy each moment. Tell people that I love them etc. I try not to think that I’m 58 years too late figuring life out. And we’re not bad off. I try not to think about what I might have otherwise done. My life doesn’t suck - that much. And “The sun will come out tomorrow.”
That's beautiful and hope you live each day to the fullest knowing that you are a real human being, with a rational mind and true emotion.
I believe in a higher power because I've had interactions with paranormal beings and I figure that it also means that there are all sorts of things. I honestly thought that living in paradise would be so boring. I'm about to find out, seeing that I'm terminally ill and at the moment I'm in a hospital ICU. Not sure how much longer I have, but I'm not afraid.
I’m continually fascinated and amazed that we are even here at all, a result of billions of years of evolution who will eventually become extinct. I do what I like & just try to enjoy what life I have left with my loved ones on this tiny blue rock. I live my life on my terms unencumbered by the nonsense of patriarchy. Mentally freeing myself from societal expectations and norms has brought me great peace.
Never bothered me. In fact the idea of living forever scared me more then dying.. living forever sounds so boring
This, the idea of living forever made me anxious. Happy to enjoy my life now. Celebrating my first Christmas at 41 years old.
Merry christmas! We are celebrating my husbands and our childrens first christmas together for their first time as well :) He is 39. I am so excited 😊
My family too, I’m in my 50’s.
Living forever under a dictatorship. This used to really bother me. Now: planets die, cats die, people die. Nothing to panic about.
I still believe in a higher power and afterlife, but I don’t believe we’re living in the final part of the final part of the last days. So I’d better make the most out of my life now. Too many JWs don’t take care of their health or stay in soul crushing menial jobs because they believe the end is coming any day now.
Honestly, I never believed there would be a paradise on earth. So it wasn't a stretch for me when I walked away. As for a purpose? Living life fully became my purpose. Went to school, got a career, traveled, experienced all I could, got married to a wonderful woman and now have a family. Belief systems for me are too triggering. I am very atheist. I believe in science and living. But you have the opportunity to find what fits for you without some dark overlord telling you what to think and feel 24/7. Enjoy being able to learn EVERYTHING! ✨️
That's a good question. I believe in a creator so in my case that helps me to have a future hope. Heaven, paradise, the intermediate place or whatever anyone else calls it. I believe there might be something else not just cause I want to believe it but also cause I don't subscribe to everything coming about by mere chance. Just too much precision and complexity in everything. It would be nice to say I found a religion that actually is completely true but I haven't. Just many little truths in many different religions but not all in one. The learning continues!
Nicely put.
“Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.” ~ Rainer Maria Rilke This quote was shared with me by my JW-approved therapist over 25 years ago. It allowed me to take the leap to LEAVE the cult, and it still applies. Live every moment of THIS life! Follow your passions. Live YOUR authentic life. Focus on healing, wherever that may lead. Its a long, windy road. But so worth it to be free!
Beautiful … love Rilke’s wisdom…
Everything is amazing. Our very existence is a miracle. And we only get to experience it for a flash and then it’s gone. It’s so special and precious and amazing. That’s it. That’s the whole point of everything. To just enjoy it.
There is no purpose in life. Try to enjoy it and don’t be a dick to others. That’s all we can do really.
Realizing that what JWs call paradise would be hell. You'd be trapped with nasty, judgemental cultists forever, unless they executed you--yes, you can now be executed in paradise.
The angels that execute you look like Kenny Rogers, or maybe Agent Smith from Matrix.
I went through this phase also. Came to the sweet conclusion that life is too short to worry about paradise or what happens when we die. Start a family or care for the one you may have. Enjoy life and once in a while get high or whatever. Go back to school or pick up a hobby. I learned that moderation is key…many who leave the borg get in trouble because they party too hard; even harder than most “worldly people”. Perhaps so used to being restricted they feel the need to make up for lost time.. Be a good citizen; maybe volunteer or at least stay out of trouble with the law.
To be honest I never thought I was going to make it to paradise as a JW as I always felt threatened that I wasn't being a good enough JW, and I remember them saying constantly that being a baptized JW, preaching, and doing things "right" according to them was not enough to deserve paradise. So I simply a abandoned those toxic beliefs, now I feel no guilt and nothing has changed. I guesss all of us interpret this cult's teaching's differently. Mosts JWs believe Jehová will "read hearts" in Armageddon and save a bunch of people that are not baptized JWs, but those who payed attention to the insane fat alcoholic pricks of the governing body know that's not the official teaching. In retrospective, it's embarrassing we ever take their teachings seriously.
The jw paradise fell so short of what the Bible teaches . It seemed very stepford wife’s and plastic to me.. The Bible doesn’t say that a paradise on earth is the destiny of humanity. In a very tldr version of eschatology: . The people who are on gods side are taken to heaven ( at an undisclosed time but based on the Bible it’s been imminent since Jesus left), the people who died and those who are still alive when he decides it’s time. Meanwhile on earth, the world tries to continue, but with the power vacuum that is left from the absence of the Holy Spirit and the Church(The believers) being gone, the antichrist who is a human world leader rises to power. Hitler is a forerunner so we know how it works. Without going into detail about how this happens satan basically takes over him. There is 3 years of relative peace. He institutes a world wide money system where the mark is the way you use it. You can’t buy and sell without it. It’s also a form of worship a buy into that system. He also institutes a world religion .. it will be some kind of coexist all roads lead to heaven you can be your own god type of thing. Some bastardization of Abrahamic religion but without the sin issue. Sin won’t be an issue. Then he signs a treaty with Israel and takes over the temple. He eventually demands worship. But the last 3 years are so bad like nothing earth has ever seen. Then Armageddon happens the believers are with Jesus the people who didn’t take the mark have been martyred or will be protected and the people who war with Jesus will be destroyed. Satan is bound and then there will be 1000 years of peace with Jesus as king. But there will still be rebels and people who don’t want his rule. People will continue to be born. There will be the resurrection of the faithful people of old, people who died without a chance to hear the gospel and the world will get a chance to see what if’s like with the the rightful king. This will be the new earth and it will be different sort of heaven and earth combined or at least the veil between the spirit world will be lifted. After the 1000 years the devil will be let out and the people who rebel will follow. And they are destroyed forever. Then there is the great white throne.. where every human stands before their maker with their deeds laid bare. The ones who are under the blood.. those who accepted Jesus payment are not judged bc their sins are erased. The ones who are not covered pay their sin debt which is eternal death/lake of fire/hell/eternal cutting off. Now I flip flop between eternal death and conscious hell. But it don’t matter that much to me. After that the Bible says we enter eternity with God. Humanity has been purified and return to its original state. Now we know good and evil but have no sin left in us and can be in communion with the father .. I don’t know what that means exactly
And you know this how?
Because I read it
I used to read the watchtower.
I’m not sure what you are getting at. I’m saying this is what the Bible says. My point being that jw are wayyyy off the mark so if you’ve lost your belief in jw teachings they were never true to begin with. Now if you are trying to say the Bible isn’t true that is a different discussion. Jw don’t follow the Bible
https://orionmagazine.org/article/wild-darkness/ I read this every so often and remember that I’m part of all life, no better, not different, and what I think makes me special is a story that I use to justify my selfish behaviors. But the ecosystem is incomplete without me as I am without it.
Freedom is paradise. Just having your mind is enough for me.
I'm still struggling with it. The really messed up part for me is I was not ever PIMI, I was mostly POMI. When I was young it was expected of me. My brother passed away and that killed my dad's faith. We fell away. Still, through my adult life time, always, always ran into someone who knew my family. Always saw it as a "sign from Jehovah" to come back. I always tried but my nagging questions would not be answered and the ones that did get answered, I scoffed at the results. I blamed it on being "too worldly" to have more faith and tried harder. I even brought my oldest into it and I'm so effin pissed about that and guilt ridden. A LOT has transpired since then and my life is forever changed. I'm so angry for not having a glint of paradise now and I'll never see my brother again. Robbers and thieves 😡
I just love the fact I have my one existence I will ever get and now it is MINE! Fuck paradise, living for a finite amount of time free of the b0rg has been endlessly amazing.
Focusing on my business, health, marriage, child’s future. Enjoying new things and allowing myself to enjoy some things completely guilt free!! Exploring & education on mindset & wealth development, 2 big things the CULT stole from me. Realizing that to some extent the entire world is in a CULT, makes me both sad and happy. I’m going to work creating my own paradise, and guess what? I’m helping more people along the way to do the same! 🙌🙌 truly helping people NOT just standing by a Cart wasting my time 😊 Enjoy life!
I always thought it would be a torture living without answers to fundamental questions and without a hope for the future. Now, as a POMO, I am agnostic. I am so gratefull that life happens to me! Is there some pourpose to all this? I don't know. Life is a mystery! I accept that and enjoy it. And try to love and live in a way that makes me and people around me happy.
I thinki came to realize even when i was PIMI that the "paradise" depicted didn't even make sense. There are tons of biomes today that are inhospitable to humans but are the only places on earth where certain creatures exist. The kind of paradise where "pretty much everywhere is either tropical or temperate" really erases actual biology, geography, and ecology. I enjoy the earth for the paradise it is, and I'm okay with life not having any meaning dictated by a bizarre patchwork tyrannical god. Nature is my deity in a way, and I'm fine doing the best I can with whatever I'm doing. It's hard to unlearn the whole "what is my meaning in life" narrative when even non-witness ambient society goes by it, but it's really freeing. We reproduce for each generation to live their lives as best as possible and then pass away. It's fun imo
It helped to accept this is my only life, live it well, help others and always better myself.
I feel the same way.
Live life for myself while making everyone else's around me better. There's no greater thing than enhancing someone's life any way you can.
The paradise they describe nowadays is not a place I would want to spend eternity. I came to peace with the thought that I'll rather be happy for now than wait to be happy in some imaginary place.
Now we empower ourselves to create our own paradise. 🌳🌲🎄🌴💖🌷🌸🌹🌺🌼💐🌻😃😄😊
My kids, and my husband who is also forging a new path with me outside the org. Focusing on the people who are permanently in my life. Paradise was always a facade. Even while I was in it was hard to understand why my parents would shun me (if I messed up) so that they could live for forever in a commune. Paying it forward to my own children is how I cope. Also following my heart’s desires (because *gasp! My evil heart can’t be trusted lol). Freedom for a single lifetime is better than eternity in a cage. Merry Christmas
"The water was brought in buckets from a small stream that ran a few hundred feet away. One of their first assignments was to remove any corpses that were floating in the stream or that were found laying along its banks. It wasn't only the bloating human bodies but those of animals also. They had managed to catch a large draft horse that had survived. They had nicknamed the horse "Fireball". They had been mildly reprimanded for their audaciousness. Using the horse they were able to drag the larger carcasses out of the stream. It was their nearest water source. They depended on it to supply the needs of all who in the vicinity had survived."
I try to live in the moment now and see life as an experience-based ~experience~ haha No longer postponing all the joy and pleasures that were always being saved for later
It takes a long time (did for me anyway) but you learn to accept that one day you will die. It doesnt matter what you believe- the fact is that EVERY SINGLE THING that has been, or is alive, has either died, or WILL die. Its inexcapable. We are no different to everything and everyone else in that regard. Is that a miserable thought? It doesnt matter. It is a fact that we have to come to terms with later on in our lives than most people. There is no point in living for a life that has no evidence of existing in the future. The life we have PROOF of is NOW! live that one.
Create purpose. Humans are inovators, we like to make things. You lost one thing that wasn't true, now you can seek or make that one thing that is true to you and others around you (don't start a religion lolz)
life is more than the reward of everlasting life on paradise on earth. when i started living my life in this world, in this time— i feel more connected to it and it’s rich and rewarding. you can take pride at yourself for your small contribution to the world, your talent, your skills! and you don’t have to feel guilty all the time. you are whole! you’re living the life that was given to you and loving it
Despite all the doom and gloom out there (by WT AND the news) about how wrecked the earth is, it’s still a beautiful place. Get out there and enjoy it. Go for a walk, take a weekend hike, go camping, buy a bird book and go birding, go paddling, or plant a garden. You’ll feel the stress melt away and appreciate life again. Maybe you’ll even find a cause to live for. It always struck me as a PIMI how beautiful the natural world still is despite how wrecked everyone says it is, and that it really wouldn’t take much after the big A for the earth to be restored. The fact that there is no god or divine purpose is no excuse to fall into despair. It means life is that much more of a miracle, something to be savored.
Paradise was looking less and less appealing the more they tried to explain it, so it wasn't difficult to let go of. Now coping with my own mortality is different. I've just been kicking that bottle down the road. I'm young. I'll think about it later
Even as a witness I had a hard time believing that the paradise was ever going to happen. So I always had the thought of dying and never waking up. I mean the amount of times they told us that it wasn’t guaranteed even with working hard in the “truth” was a way to whip us into thinking we weren’t enough. I mean who hasn’t thought “well if god has mercy on me I’ll be there” The only comfort I have is that we don’t know what happens but at that point in our lives we will want death to come. So enjoy life now with your family friends pets etc
If there’s no life after this one, then you’d better get started living!! That’s how I looked at it. As a JW, you were encouraged (expected) to sacrifice your current life for one in Paradise. The way I see it, losing paradise in the future made me create my paradise NOW! Hope this helps!
It can be daunting to face death and watch loved ones die, but after watching my grandfather die I realized that there's so much in life we take for granted on the daily. Cherish your close ones, take moments to love yourself and aspects of the seasons , try to watch the moons phases or watch sunsets. Quiet moments are full of bliss, if we let ourselves feel them. I think a lot of us think too much and feel too little, constantly buzzing with things we need to do or whatever. Our lives are meant to be enjoyed
Not having an answer to every question and a requirement has been liberating. There is a peaceful freedom to the unknown, and a joy to be free learning about many things in life, either from a Hindu Guru, or a Buddhist monk. The possibility to know and learn is my paradise.
I still have faith in God just not as jws view it! I believe we have “something better” awaiting us. Perhaps something our physical human nature is unable to comprehend.🤷🏼♀️. Whatever that be... I’m good!! So currently just trying to live the best life possible according to scripture, without fear, with happiness and without the pressure of men directing everything I do...I’m freed of that...🙏🏽
Immortality would be amazing and I could accomplish every aspiration I ever had with immortality. But my presence in this physical body is finite, I have my duty to do the best I can with this body of mine to make sure many other people can enjoy the gift of being alive that come after me. The purpose of life is to continue life. ... Or if you want a scriptural doctrine supporting this "be fruitful and multiply" this is what drives evolution.
Honestly knowing that there’s a more than decent chance you’re gonna die and that’s the end helps give meaning to life. Do the best you can, do good if not for the sake of doing good then because it’s better for you in the long run, and when it’s all over let the chips fall where they may. One of the most tragic things about this cult is the number of people they have convinced to give up this life in the hopes of the next. It’s literally millions of people just waiting to die and it’s truly heartbreaking. If I’m being honest deep down I lean towards some form of reincarnation but I find that acting as if the above is true brings the most peace and awareness
I now look at paradise a method that I was infantilized by the organizers of the cult. It is something to tell children that are afraid of the dark. I see the thought experiment of paradise as an insult now: That I am too weak, too simple, too fearful to understand the universe that my consciousness briefly navigates. They do it because they want my consciousness to focus on them, and to give them money and free labor. We are all bigger, smarter, and stronger then the children that need a lie to fall asleep. We have a duty to this life. Don’t give those chuckleheads any attention, they are greedy child molester apologists. Paradise is the whip which they threaten you with. Hold your head up and face death with your eyes open. You’re bigger then the darkness
New Testament is in no way attached to JW.org the old Christian creeds are way better than anything offered by the Borg. So being a Christian rather than being anti Christian as Jws are, adds purpose to life. Praying the rosary even though I’m not Roman Catholic keeps me grounded in putting away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. 1 Cor 13
I didn't really think about it until I was waay out, I guess I just was okay with the idea of not existing anymore instead of eternal life.
One must imagine Sisyphus as happy
I just viewed as kinda liberating. If there's no paradise, I might as well do what I want.
I always felt the utopic New World gig was like a child who shared a room with his siblings. They trash their room (typical kids), but instead of taking responsibility for it and working together, the kid expects daddy's going to one day come in and miraculously clean up the mess. Oh, and the best part is, the first order of this cleanse will be to destroy his siblings (because, after all, he's not responsible for any of it). What are we, 5???!!! We need to help figure it out and enjoy the part we play in that journey because it's very brief.
We started from nothing then we should end from nothing.
For me, what brought comfort in what came after death, or what is the point of everything, was NDE’s. (Near death experiences) studies on that, confirmed studies done on reincarnation, etc, and now I don’t fear what comes after. I’ve also found new purpose in telling the stories I want to tell, pursuing a career in art, (I hope my stories and art can one day help people through the things they are going through) and one day, A big goal id like to do is start a non profit to help fight climate change. There is a way we can actually reverse it with these types of anthro-something ponds. And it something anyone can do. I can’t remember but the exact name but it’s something I’d like to pursue in order to have a planet to live on for future generations. Not a bad meaning in life I think. 😊 It’s a whole thing to find meaning. But you can make a change or fight for something if you want to. Or, you can just live to enjoy your life. Nothing wrong with that either. 💜
honestly I’m just suicidal asf and want to die HAHA no but I’d be upset if I died and then I woke up again and i had to live forever
I knew I wouldn't make it to paradise anyway so I was just happy that no one is going and I can fuck girls and listen to satanic music how much I want. I also feel much better because my consience is clear now.
Live your life the way you want. Experience things that you never would have been able to before. Go on a trip if you can, go to a club and have some fun, go to a concert. I’m doing things and exploring things I didn’t have time to do or was able to do. I even went back to school and got another diploma. Good luck exploring
Realizing it is here now. Create it. It is entirely within your power.
I figure if there is no future paradise, then I focus myself on making the world better now for everyone as much as I am capable. Make peoples lives better and more interesting at every opportunity. This includes myself so I am not a slave to serving and become depressed.
Just enjoy the now. Enjoy the 80/60$ you have in your hands instead of throwing them away for a billion you will never get. Even if all that he stuff was real you have to latch on to the end. If you let go Ina old age then everything you sacrificed was useless. It's a terrible policy if that's how Jah works but I digress
I decided I needed to find something true. I settled on "Everything is Energy and Energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transferred/converted." So I decided it's okay to not have all the answers and maybe there isn't a purpose to "it all" but my personal purpose decided by me, is to charge up and release to the universe as much positive energy as possible so that whoever or whatever needs it can use it.
ho lo stesso problema, perfavore datemi una mano sto andando in crisi grazie
Google what Einstein believed on; “The god of Spinoza”. You will be relieved. 😉
After the terror of realizing my own mortality and that I would "die in this system", now I feel liberated that I can finally chase after my dreams without any guilt and start living life to its fullest. I recommend you do all the things you wanted to do but couldn't, cos you weren't allowed. Life has a way of opening up so enjoy it!
I was just glad when I realised I wasn't going to have to see everyone and every thing I love die at armageddon. I dont need paradise, I need to live the one life I know I've got though
I guess since I never believed that paradise was real, I never had that loss. I guess what you can do though, is actually focus on them life.you are.kviing currently. FOCUS ON YOUR HAPPINESS NOW. Thia is REAL LIFE! There are no gifts at the end of the rainbow, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it when it's here and it doesn't mean our lives are over. It just means you need to do what makes you happy. You got this. Think for yourself! It's fun!
I'm soo with you on this. Turning 53 and sad to watch my parent's in there 80's realizing they ARE going to die in this system. My mother said to me the other day, "you better be there when I wake up". They were very abusive, closet kind. I still hate it bc you know they can only repeat the mantra that jehovah see's all you've done for his name. Really shaking me up. I'm at the same place as you. Feels like a whole life wasted with the feeling of hopelessness, searching for something
get a cat or a dog that appreciates you
I’m honestly not dealing real well. Had to grieve the loss of my faith and the death of my father, brother, and grandmother.
I believe in God, Jesus and the Bible. Just not what the JWs teach. They have a false Jesus, a false perverted translation of the Bible (NWT) and have no idea who the God of the Bible is. In addition they preach a false good news (Gospel). I urge anyone with an open mind to read the New Testament(Christian Greek scriptures) as if it applies to them and not believe the lie the JWs taught them that it is written only to the ‘anointed’. Where is that in scripture that only the anointed should feel the New Testament is written mostly to them? No where. And where does it say in the scriptures that Jesus came to pay a ransom for us to live in a paradise? No where in the Bible does it say that!!. The real gospel (good news) is found at **1 Corinthians 15:1-4** 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. And **Ephesians 2:8,9:** 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Notice how it says in Ephesians verse 8 and 9 that we are saved by grace and it is a GIFT. You don’t work for a gift. And verse 9 says not of works so no one can boast. Am I right that the entire JW religion is based on people being rated on the works they do and boasting about it? And yes, I believe there will be a 1000 year kingdom on earth. But it will not be what the JWs believe to be paradise nor will the people who will be there will not be who JW think
That's the only life I had, if I don't fight for whatever what I want, and don't live the life as the best I can, would be a wasted existence. A truly owned purpose it's so much made than a fake and plastic one.
When I was a kid, I didn’t like going to the park and I didn’t like going to the zoo. The illustrations of paradise looked awful to me. So frankly I’m relieved.
I have shifted my focus to live my life as full and happy now as I have it. I still hold out hope that maybe there's more to it, but all we can really do is live. Like really live right now.
Love is my new religion and freedom is my paradise.
As someone commented above, trying to find peace in the fact that we were essentially “dead” for billions of years before birth can calm me down. I definitely don’t remember being upset about the fact that I wasn’t alive at any point lol. It’s a scary thing, because all we know is this life but the truth (don’t kick me out) is that we don’t know what happens. Maybe our physical body does, the consciousness we have been receiving floats back into the cosmos and we “live” in a different sort of way. Maybe that portion of consciousness will channel into another being in another part of the universe or another dimension even. Recorded history is like .000000000001^2 of the true history of the universe. We don’t know much of anything yet. And maybe we don’t need to. Book a cruise to another continent! Paradise !!!
I never really saw myself in paradise while I was in which probably made it easier. I’ve always just tried to live my best life here with the people I love. Time is precious and there’s no point wasting it doing things we hate and not being who we really want to be.
The world *is* a paradise. They just blind you so you think it's all Satanic and horrible. People are beautiful. Air is wonderful to breathe. Water is wonderful to drink. God is everyone's friend. It's not a paradise like a holiday resort where you do nothing. It's paradise like an adventure holiday. With puzzles, challenges, and a million games to play! It's beautiful. Here and now is paradise! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOdkG4sqGfo ;)
I know it's a long shot, but I'm just hoping that life-extension technology advances enough in my lifetime for me to choose how long I want to live.
Was looking forward to it too, so there's nothing after death? Could we be living another Nineveh situation?
The resurrection never felt anything more than mass cloning. I just couldn’t get my head around it.
The resurrection never felt anything more than mass cloning. I just couldn’t get my head around it.
I mean you’re really gonna start living now…
Personally I always dreaded the new system. When you think about it “paradise” doesn’t sound so great. Everyone who’s not a witness will die a horrific violent death, we will have to bury bodies for hundred’s of years, all art and culture will be destroyed and nothing will replace it besides boring ass watchtower propaganda anyway, you will have no freedom of thought, no freedom to Pursue what you want, you won’t be able to feel sadness or anger, and if you don’t like any of this you will be killed as a criminal. Personally I would much rather have a life in this world with the freedom to find my own meaning and freedom pursue what makes me happy than an eternity in an authoritarian hell world.
I will know no different once I die. That’s what works for me. Your beliefs about afterlife may vary obviously. Living my life how I want right now and being as good of a human being as possible right now is more important to me than a possible, but not guaranteed, “panda paradise”.
I wasn't looking forward to the paradise to begin with, i hate the idea of anything that goes on forever, so.
That was the hardest thing for me to deal with....I so wanted to see my loved ones who have died and live with them. For me it was like a death and I dealt with as such. Went through the grieving and anger....took a few years of that and now I've finally accepted it. Not sure if there is something after but hope so. I now live each day to the very fullest....no apologies and no excuses.
The knowledge that I would never be good enough to make it made me happy as a clam that it was all a lie. 😄🥳😜
is there no more Paradise?
Living in the now vs. some future that will never come.
Oddly enough, I starred working with the elderly and now hospice. I've never felt a greater spirituality.
Each act of kindness, each showing of compassion, every expression of mercy is a small paradise.
Enjoy life now. According to JW teaching there is only one true religion. If that’s true….and it’s obviously not the JWs then what are the chances of finding the right religion? I’m making every moment count with my family. If there is some kind of afterlife then maybe I have lived a good enough life to see it.
Freedom to know that you can do anything you want without the constant control of a high control group of regular humans. The GB is not special by any means. I never even imagined that it was possible until I finally realized enough was enough.
I didn't/haven't I'm late fifties, depressed and nihilistic.